Punisher

Frank was way too lenient, he let that Russian mobster go after getting information because "I have kids and I promise never to come to USA again." He let the assassin Pilgrim live and worse he let a pedophile live.

It tried too hard to be another cop/spy drama with a writer that just didn't understand the character and tried too hard to make him too human. The punisher is a monster. He doesn't monologue his thoughts or feelings. He is a severely mentally broken deranged man that justifies his mass serial killing spree by going after criminals. Also paige.

It should've been run by the duo that was in charge of Daredevil Season 2. Punisher was clearly where their hearts were at.
Instead they did Defenders to continue the awful Hand arc while someone who clearly didn't give a shit about Frank ran his show.

Attached: punisher_49_021.jpg (1280x2022, 595K)

This.
The Punisher isn't an anti-hero, he's an anti-villain and if you don't understand that about the character you'll never make a good Punisher show/movie.

Arguably the only Netflix Marvel show where the second season was better than the first.

women writers

It was fucking made.

Luke Cage and Iron Fist had better second seasons.

Same problem as all Marvel Netflix.

One arc basically over a whole season of 13 episodes. Enough content for maybe 5 episodes.

Why not do shorted 2-3 episode arcs and an overall plot? Instead we got really bad villains, especially in season 2.

Most of his fans don't even fucking understand that.

>Frank Castle is just a broken man who wants to die
That was literally the message of S2E1.

I'll bite.
What's an anti-villian?

All I wanted was Frank killing criminals, broken man/veteran stuff.

Instead it is all conspiracies. And not interesting ones.

Man, War Zone managed to completely miss all the nuance of Punisher, but I'll take silly shlock that knows it's shlock any day over a sincere attempt at drama that falls completely flat.
youtu.be/DHJlTIQR1os

An nontraditional villain who has several heroic qualities but is, at the end of the day, a force that's more evil than good.

Season 1 was perfectly serviceable.
Season 2 alternated between too much boring plot and over the top violence.

The hotel shootout scene was enjoyably retarded, and the junkyard fight was laugh out loud entertaining. The last 5 minutes was stupid as hell though.

I HAD A GOOD HOME AND I LEFT

I didn't get that far because Season 1 is trash. Frank isn't a hero, or even an anti-hero. He's a suicidal asshole looking to take as many shitbags with him. Any good he does is purely coincidental.

Much like how an anti-hero is a character who doesn't have much of a heroic personality/motivation, but does heroic acts, an anti-villain doesn't have much of a villainous personality/motivation, but commits villainous acts.

Punisher is targeting criminals and scum, but he's still a violent mass-murderer who will stop at nothing to kill his targets.

He's similar to Black Adam and Sinestro, only in Frank's case he wants somebody to fucking kill him already

Didn't kill enough niggers, white supremacists, Mexican cartels, triads, yakuza, mobsters, and terrorists.

Attached: LVsexEs1_2210142353111.jpg (820x800, 646K)

t. Matthew Murdock

S2E1 was like S1E1. Mostly selfcontained but S2 has a bit more plot introduction.

Fuck you

Who the fuck are you, and why should we care?

Fuck you

This, it even fits the "We need 13 episode" structure. Just spend 1-3 episodes per evil group. Have him kill a diversity of bad guys with simple plots of kidnapping or drug dealing, corporate white collar crime, ect. Either end it with a recreation of the Slavers or the rich white criminals who hire Barracuda to kill Frank. You could even fit in that line "Why don't you go back to killing niggers" when dealing with the corporate evil men.

>Matt
>Literally the one superhero who knows that the Punisher is what keeps the other supers from going too far

Yes, and?

>the first five minutes of the first episode are exactly what I want
>he burns the vest and my hopes & dreams with it

Attached: sad_punisher.jpg (238x303, 17K)

>>Literally the one superhero who knows that the Punisher is what keeps the other supers from going too far
LOL
user....the fucking SCOURGE is the one that keeps shit in check
The punisher would get his fucking head lopped off by deadpool yesterday.
Hell Daredevil would snap his fucking neck if he goes over the line.
I like the punisher as much as the next guy, but he's nowhere near good enough to make even street level heroes give pause.

He just kills villains. Its in the words.

I was meaning more "Frank kills the truly henious scum so that people like the Avengers don't have to waffle about chosing to focus on sex trafficking rings or Dr. DOOM's Super Death Beam."

I liked it, I think the choice of actor for the punisher himself was really a good choice

Attached: wgimxlypchy11-1.jpg (976x741, 88K)

He was great
In Daredevil S2

Attached: idontenjoykillingbut.png (540x467, 257K)

All they had to do was straight up copy the Punisher MAX storylines, even scene for scene, word for word copied straight from the comic, and they would have been golden.

Attached: disgust.jpg (1280x2022, 1.03M)

He just murders regular assholes who're as murderous as he is.
There are other supers that go out there and get their hands dirty with people like that woman who sold little girls into sexual slavery, he's not something that singlehandedly keeps shit in check.

Has Frank as a reactive force against le conspiracy out to get him like every other action hero rather than the proactive force that kills criminals just because he wants to which is the entire point and appeal of the character.

Daredevil got the character more accurate than his own show but was still trapped in the similarly generic frame of personal revenge.

Why dont the Avengers assist somebody like Frank and help shut down sex slave rings and drug trade? Surely they could do a way more efficient job of it than he can.

I feel like Punisher only works if hes in his own universe with no other superheros.

This. How could Frank be so fantastic in Daredevil and yet so shit in his own series?

It doesn't ring well with audiences having guys like Iron Man knock out human traffickers or CP rings. If you are reading/watching stories about this kind of scum you don't want them knocked out and sent to jail, you want them bashed into a blood pulp or left in the woods with their entrails out. Also the power difference is too huge when Iron Man is bullet proof, leaving no tension.

>a caveman that just learned to speak English
yes that's the punisher

but the main actors for both of those shows were miscast heavily

What does that have to do with the second season being better than the first?

Attached: 1449735845139.gif (500x281, 706K)

>It tried too hard to be another cop/spy drama with a writer that just didn't understand the character

Iron Fist and Luke Cage suffered the same thing. Daredevil was so lucky he had people who cared about him on his show.

>What went wrong?
Punisher has never been a good character.

their second seasons were better than their firsts, but doesn't make them not shit.

Hope Feige reboots them one day.

But that's not what we were talking about.
The original post I replied to said Punisher was the only Marvel Netflix show where the second season was better than the first, and I argued against that.
Yeah, Iron Fist is a bad show. Of course it is. But the second season was less bad than the first.

Attached: shinnnn.jpg (1664x696, 141K)

Your autism meter.

Attached: 1468519251544.gif (728x426, 128K)

But then they couldn't satisfy their ego and "creative impulses" by getting their dirty fucking fingerprints on it, user:

> Lets make a sand castle, i'll get some water from the ocean and-
Lets use piss instead of water.
> What?
As long as the sand sticks together it'll work right?
> Uh, no, that's not-
PISS CASTLES!

He didn't Rick somthin.

afaik in-universe most superheroes want him off the streets but he's way further down their to-do list than actual supervillains, so he's mostly left alone. Superheroes don't want to help him and don't have the time to shut him down, and he knows his limits enough to stay away from supervillains (most of the time), so he just does his thing and they do theirs.

Pretty much every time he actually interacts with a real superhero they're either trying to put him away for being too violent or trying to get him to change his ways or something. Nobody with an actual superhero rep wants a Frank team-up if they can help it.

Matt doesn't subscribe to Frank's point of view, but he's probably the only hero who understands Frank most.

Attached: the-punisher-and-daredevil-team-up-the-punisher-vol.-1.jpg (1041x1600, 441K)

TroperTales

Attached: everything-sucks-5ae8b6.jpg (600x496, 46K)

I thought season one was fine for the most part but I'll never understand what happened with season two. Everything from where Frank's at at the start of the season, mentally and physically, to Billy's facial damage is just so full of totally baffling choices given what happened in season one. Not to mention the plot itself was just messy and super over-complicated and noisy without actually saying or doing much.

>If you are reading/watching stories about this kind of scum you don't want them knocked out and sent to jail, you want them bashed into a blood pulp or left in the woods with their entrails out.
...I just want them off the streets. Maybe you're a little unbalance user

The second season. Just all of it. The blatant political pandering, the whole idea of Frank retiring from being the Punisher. It was all just so stupid.
I did like the first season honestly. I know people give it shit, but I like to think of it as an extended version of the Punisher's origin story, I don't think of him as truly being the Punisher until the end.

That whole Pilgrim thing really fucking annoyed me.
"Oh you killed dozens of innocent people and try to murder the fuck out of me and the person I was looking after, also you used to be some gangster and who knows what you did back then. But hey you have kids and ***I*** had kids so you get to live."

Casting a skinny manlet as the Punisher. I have a hard time taking him seriously, let alone see him as a former soldier.

Plus, they showed all those scenes with him. Which were fine but the only character they mattered too was Pilgrim. Frank never even meets him face to face until the penultimate episode. Or was it the finale?

They are ashamed of the source material. Simple as that. Just as this user put it.

It got too big for its britches. I don't get how anyone enjoyed it,but to each their own. Awful storytelling and an over reliance on character drama. You could tell the writers weren't familiar with the materials that spawned The Punisher. If the show didn't have The Punisher brand attached,it would've been rightfully seen as the garbage it is.

Didn't he try to kill Frank when Frank was escaping from the hospital or am I remembering that wrong?

Not memeing here, do you seriously have enough sympathy for people who make CP or traffic humans that if given the choice you'd have them arrested rather than actually punished and killed?

Yeah, but he didn't get to him I think. So, he tried to drive by the ambulance (I think?) Detective Mahone kept him in.

How are the current comics?

Netflix.

Gutting people doesn't do anything for me, sorry

Then why are you in a Punisher thread? The details I mentioned are specifically stuff done by the Punisher in the MAX comics.

because I liked the show

This is still the best on-screen depiction of The Punisher
youtube.com/watch?v=bWpK0wsnitc

Attached: 1492397147666.jpg (555x644, 31K)

It wasn't more Punisher War Zone.
Just give me MORE PUNISHER WAR ZONE.

Attached: 33-more-of-the-greatest-movie-punches-ever_aeeq.gif (260x173, 1.12M)

I liked Netflix Punisher, but I'd be a-ok with more War Zone, too.

>He doesn't monologue his thoughts or feelings
he does in the Punisher MAX stories and The Platoon though and everyone says those are his best stories

I don't really understand the hate for this movie. I thought it was dumb fun

LEMME ASK YOU SUMTHING

Daredevil is literally the only show that didn't feel its length, it seemed like every 3-4 episodes there were developments and arcs happening
Season 2 was bad in this regard but it still built up to things

>love this shot
>but still feel like they didn't make Frank look supremely pissed off to unhinged levels enough

Attached: 1564728946920.gif (224x168, 980K)

That look is perfect. He doesn't need steam shooting out of his ears to convey his emotions. Frank is a stoic man, so even that look should really mean something to the reader.

Attached: 1477021048432.jpg (915x1374, 583K)

Becayse the Punisher works better as a sympathetic villain than as any kind of hero. The idea that he could go on this hundreds-long mass killing spree with automatic weapons and ONLY ever kill guys that deserved it is absurd. The guy is a vigilant fantasy in an era where we have known that doesn't work for decades. Its more passible in comics where there are villain organizations like Hydra under every rick to keep him busy, but in something that is being presented more realistically Frank has to have a massive body count of innocent people or petty nonviolent criminals that were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

>Not memeing here, do you seriously have enough sympathy for people who make CP or traffic humans that if given the choice you'd have them arrested rather than actually punished and killed?

Yes, because what you are describing is revenge porn. That shit isn't justice.

It felt like he punished a lot more people in DD S2 than the actual show. I think the show would have benefited from making each episode be its own story with someone for Frank to punish in each episode. It feels like he mostly just kills mooks.

Eh, then you'd have forgettable antagonists. Maybe multi-episode villains.

Not much , it went as 'punisher' as a netflix show would go , liked both season, 1 more than 2 .

"BILLLLLLYYYYYYY!"
"RUUUUSOOOOOOOOO!"
"AHHHHHHHHH!"
"UGHURRRRAGGGGGHHHHHH!"
"DIE! DIE! DIEEEEEE!"

No russian.
youtube.com/watch?v=5HaUTDQDElI

Attached: punisherMAX pedo1.jpg (1257x1920, 737K)

Attached: punisherMAX pedo2.jpg (1230x1920, 781K)

Attached: punisherMAX pedo3.jpg (1234x1920, 815K)

Attached: punisherMAX pedo4.jpg (1256x1920, 895K)

Attached: punisherMAX pedo5.jpg (1238x1920, 744K)

Bernthal's Frank came off as really stupid. He was the mindless thug most people often mistakingly describe the Punisher as. The growling got to be too much.

Attached: punisher wolv jugg.jpg (1000x1464, 381K)

Could a Punisher series work if he has no allies? Or at the very least, Micro's, Joan's, etc appearances would be so small they amount to 15-20 mins screentime per season?

>It tried too hard to be another cop/spy drama with a writer that just didn't understand the character and tried too hard to make him too human.
This. It was frustrating as hell to watch.
>The punisher is a monster.
Yep, he's just one who happens to hunt other monsters. Nothing more to it than that.
>He doesn't monologue his thoughts or feelings.
Not true, actually. He inner monologues constantly in the comics. A lot of stories wouldn't be half as potent without them. This whole page here wouldn't have worked at all if Frank had someone to say this out loud to. That's another major problem with the series. Frank has too many people to talk to. The monologues work way better and really sell how disturbed Frank is.
>He is a severely mentally broken deranged man that justifies his mass serial killing spree by going after criminals.
Yes. And it works so well because most of the time you can kind of see where Frank is coming from. I'm not as on board with him killing some random mercs hired by the shadow government. I mean I get it, but it's not really a net positive for the world like killing a drug dealer would be.
>Also paige.
Christ don't even get me started with her.

No, but appearances of Micro and all else as well as the comrade of the week could work. The Punisher series should have been episodic criminal of week, building up to a larger story. The 13 hour movie mindset is stupid.

I liked HSI lady

I hate how loud and aggressive he comes off. In everything I've ever read Frank is pretty quiet and works like a machine. He also wouldn't bother arguing his point of view with Daredevil or anyone else.

Used the wrong actor.

Madani

And character regression in his own show. In Daredevil S2 he was on a mission and embraced the mantle. He outright murdered a guy selling CP. Then in Punisher 1 and 2 he burns up the skull vest, dallies around, embraces the situation, then rejects it, only to take it up again. He comes across a guy who was literally MAKING CP and doesn't off him because a girl begged him not to. What a mess

Frank Castle was a living force of nature who didn't scream at the top of his lungs like a retard who just got his crayons stolen every time he gets so much as lightly slapped, hell if anything the only time he made any noise was to talk shit. This is especially true in Punisher MAX, which is what the Netflix show was trying to take cues from.

For someone like The Punisher, perhaps.

Franks' the kind of guy who tackles the kind of street crime the likes of Spider-Man never seems to touch. Too icky I guess.

Can you imagine Spidey going after human traffickers and crack dealers? I don't even care much for the character,yet the thought leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Hardly. At least with the wisecracks.

Pete would snap at some point.

>Frank has too many people to talk to. The monologues work way better and really sell how disturbed Frank is.
I know people don't like voice overs, but they probably could've kept Bernthal's visual delivery as well if they did something like the Darkness video game where the monologues are visualized as Frank sitting alone in a dark room, just talking out the monologues to no one.
youtube.com/watch?v=8vZ9pK0ITMo

Or maybe recordings left on CDs, a smartphone, or maybe even tapes if he's old fashioned.