So Thor just stole the Mjolnir of that timeline? Wouldn't this have huge implications on the plot? Without Mjolnir...

>2. Remember how Mjolnir took a bit longer to come to Thor's aid, right when his mother died?
Wait did that really happen? Fuck. It's been years, I can't remember. Would be cool, though

haha imagine if cap didnt return it but used mjolnir to hold down peggy's hands as he anally devastates her haha

>2.
wasnt it confirmed by the idiots who made the film that time travel creates a separate timeline, one where you didnt and one where you did. so that wouldnt work

Sci-fi time travel is apparently very difficult to grasp.

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The director and the writers and most of the cast all have conflicting ideas of what the fuck time travel did in the movie. Steve being old and in the exact same place waiting kind of implies that no, it doesn't, at least to me. That aside, since nobody agrees and the movies are so far apart chronologically that there's NO WAY they planned it that way unless Feige is a wizard, I figure it's just a neat coincidence, but one I noticed immediately on a rewatch of Dark World.

They reference it.

Sometimes it takes a while.

Anyone with a limited knowledge of quantum physics and infinite universes theory would state that they COULDN'T repair the timelines because even if they do return the stones and items to their original places, there's still infinite universes made where they don't. So Endgame saved one universe to doom an infinite others. Our heroes.

Also fuck Tony selfishly demanding time not be changed back to right before the snap because he liked the last 5 years he had living alone with his family and not giving a fuck about anything else. Fuck you Tony. Just because YOU found something doesn't mean everyone else had. And besides, Pepper gives birth to the kid regardless and would be born into a much better world. Dumbass to the very end because with all his fucking smarts, he couldn't make the gems not kill him first before getting rid of Thanos. Happy you saved this time line, Tony? Oh wait, you're dead because you're an idiot.

Yes, Russos said so.
And its explicitly explained with expository dialogue by characters in the movie. Can't change your own timeline, only create others .

Irl reason for this is that all the old movies stand as past history, they wont be retconned away like it happens with comic book issues.

Ancient one said that if you returned it you would avert disaster within that timeline. Not that they remerge.

Hes basically returning stones so that those timelines arent entirely fucked.

They have a cop out on Tony. Out of the 14 million timeline that chain of events was the only one where they win in the end. So they can just claim that it had to happed that way.
But i totally agree with you. Although wish making is risky business, reverting eveything up to the snap to its original circumstances might just put them all back in wakanda and the gauntlet on Thanos' hand

They whole time travel stuff is full of plot holes, you just have to let it go.
The movie's excuse for this is Cap returned it.
But really in the end the grandfather paradox wouldn't allow them to do shit, unless they jump to a completely different timeline, in which case they didn't need to return anything, and they could have just killed Thanos as a baby like Rhody said.

In fact, Captain Marvel fucked up the continuity in its movie.
Captain America and the Tessaract are recovered in 2010.
But in Captain Marvel, the government has found the tessaract long ago and the professor was using it to make a super plane, which exploded and gave Captain Marvel her powers.
So why was Captain America recovered in 2010? He went down with the Tessaract in hand. You can't have one without the other.

But they would have a gauntlet, too and that would make for a better final battle than basically repeating the one from Infinite Wars. Imagine two people with the Infinite Gauntlets having a war in the heavens for the fate of the universe. Now that'd be a spectacle.

No
user she literally shows the tineline splitting without the stone, then re-merging when it was re-introduced.

Time travel in Endgame creates alternate timelines that can only stay in existence if the stones aren't all there to cull them. Steve putting everything back means the moment he leaves the new timelines they cease to exist.

Old Cap lived through a timeline where he showed up early, retired early, and Sam was already Captain America.

Youre making up rules.

They merge when the stone is returned, not when he leaves.

>you're making up rules
No, the Russos made up rules
>the timeline dies the moment the stone is back
Makes no sense, Cap would literally be standing in a collapsing universe. He has to stop observing it for it to annihilate.

He wouldn't have been able to live as Old Steve if that were the case.

It's been awhile since I watched Cap 1 but I'm pretty sure the Tessaract melted through the bottom of the Red Skull's plane and fell into the ocean before Steve went into the ice, I think they even showed Howard finding it while looking for Steve.

Or since they weren't returned to the exact point they were taken the branch remained, just or as a fucked universe.

Quantum mechanics doesn't care about what a writer has to say about time travel. There will always be a universe where the stones don't go back. That's how infinite universe theory works. Every possible action or outcome exists in an infinite number of ways. So while they may return the stone back to the original place in time, it won't eliminate all the timelines created afterwards because they're just as valid. It may get rid of some as the theory would allow for this. But in the end, taking the stones from their place in the past will create universes doomed because of this. Our heroes doomed an infinite number of universe just to save one.

So difficult that even the writers can't grasp it when trying to make fun of it.

The timelines split because of differences created, I.E. just going back in time to begin with. HOWEVER, without the stones, those timelines are doomed to die. Steve returning the stones means that those timelines can live on.

>Old Cap lived through a timeline where he showed up early, retired early, and Sam was already Captain America.

Now that part you're just making up. At least in regards to Sam. For all we know he could've found Bucky much earlier and passed the mantle to him. Or, better yet, allowed the Steve of that timeline to be thawed out and take over.

the lines only split because the stones are absent

Steve returns the stones so the lines don't split, and those realities - which are fundamentally identical to the prime reality - stay the same except for the odd changes caused by theft of Pym particles, damage to Stark's chest reactor before he can go get schawrma etc

ultimately these make no particular difference

taking Mjolnir from Asgard right before Doctor Who attacks is more of a problem, but only for Asgard, and Asgard is filled with magical weaponry

there's no particular reason to assume that Thor in that reality wouldn't prevail, it would just happen a different way and he'd obtain Stormbreaker or another substitute a little earlier

since these are alternate dimensions, not the past of his own dimension, this is fine

did you even read the briefing

This. Cap put it back at the moment after it was taken. Just like the stones. Cap was actually hiding behind those pillars watching the scene. Thors Mom helped him put it back.

Time travel itself is a paradox. Eventually you break your own rules for time travel. Everytime.

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Jesus Christ, that looks horrible

>No
The fuck you mean "no"? He took the hammer with him and he returned to that timeline. Fuck off.

The Russos, actually. Since they got their hands on Tony in Civil War almost every other character got shat on

Do you retards even watch the movies you complain about? Jesus fucking Christ, pay attention.

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This is why I hate splintering timeline rules. No-one can be bothered to follow them even in the movie they are introduced and they just confuse the fuck out of everything.
Back to the Future rules confirmed for superior.

He sends it back, but that doesn't really matter, the timetravel in the movie is terrible and make no sense. That's what you get when fake nerds are in charge, on the other hand you can also end up with ultra autistic timetravel like Snyder wanted in justice league, being so autistic you end up caring about earth's rotation.

Reminder that Cap cucked the Steve Rogers who was still frozen and undiscovered in the timeline created when the gem was removed, and that Steve Rogers woke up to a world that never missed him because he had been replaced by our Cap, who then stole that timeline's shield to take it back home and give it to the guy who couldn't even keep up with Cap while he jogged and got beat up by Rumslow.

I like how tony had a daughter and yet Peter is still in fucking highschool. It's so fucking retarded.

It's not a problem when timetravel is the focus, but in avengers it wasn't.

Peter was snapped.

Time literally stopped for him while the world went on.

>Time literally stopped for him while the world went on.
And for his entire class apparently

Because everyone that was snapped never aged. So you got all these people five years younger than they should be reappearing. How many of those lives will be ruined coming back to see people moved on without them. How many married people came back to find their spouse remarried? How many people with jobs came back to find them gone as someone else replaced them. Fuck them apparently because Tony had five years of raising a kid with Pepper in a high tech cabin, being isolated from the rest of the world suffering. That's why Hulk Banner should have just told Tony to fuck off and reset everything right before Thanos gets the Time Stone and snap him and his army away. If you're gonna bring in time travel stuff, you might as well use it logically.

Yeah that makes no sense. His friends should have been in university at this point.

Welcome to comic books, that's how it works there too, always finding loopholes so the stories can go on with minimal impact.
>His friends should have been in university at this point.
This was explicitly addressed in Homecoming, though.

They are indeed superior rules.

But I imagine the studio reason for it is to keep selling the past movies as they cannot be made irrelevant by retcons, they will always stand as the past, everything else is just alternate.

Have no desire to see it. How exactly do they explain this?

>This was explicitly addressed in Homecoming, though.
Still no decent torrent, what did they say about that?

It's from a deleted scene

>That's why Hulk Banner should have just told Tony to fuck off and reset everything right before Thanos gets the Time Stone
>everything

>in a blink they lose the new gauntlet, the stones and get all separated across the cosmos, Thanos just gets it all over again

Be careful making wishes, user.

>Back to the Future rules confirmed for superior.
LMAO no, that's the retarded version of time-travel that every dumbass accepts because they can't grasp alternate universes, it's not good at all.

Are you guys fucking kidding? Okay, here:
The school never stopped working, there's kids who graduated and all during the 5 years after the Snap, but those who were snapped back into reality were forced to go back to school, all aged up, because they hadn't actually finished it. There's schoolmates in the movie who are old enough to buy cigarettes and booze among their group.

Thats why they're superior.
Because the audience goes before scientific accuracy.

Dumbass.

>Because the audience goes before scientific accuracy.
Nah, miss me with that shit. That's how you get Armageddon, 2012 and a lot of other disaster porn bullshit.

Okay, then be smart and add to the wish that the gauntlet and stones they have don't go away. We're talking about having the power of God here.

>The school never stopped working
Yeah, that's why that guy said they should be in college
>there's kids who graduated and all during the 5 years after the Snap
Logical
>but those who were snapped back into reality were forced to go back to school
Yeah, that makes sense, the issue is that his fucking cast all happened to be snapped.

>Also fuck Tony selfishly demanding time not be changed back to right before the snap because he liked the last 5 years he had living alone with his family and not giving a fuck about anything else. Fuck you Tony. Just because YOU found something doesn't mean everyone else had. And besides, Pepper gives birth to the kid regardless and would be born into a much better world. Dumbass to the very end because with all his fucking smarts, he couldn't make the gems not kill him first before getting rid of Thanos. Happy you saved this time line, Tony? Oh wait, you're dead because you're an idiot.

>hurr durr what we're gonna do is revive everyone

>lets erase all the people who were born in these past 5 years for no reason anyway tho lol

The whole thing is stupid and those people wouldn't exist had it not been for Thanos being a dick. At this point, you might as well reboot it all.

You mean thats how you get money? The entire point of the moviemaking endeavor?

Surprise, surprise, studios dont think of user McDumbass and his desire for accuracy when producing films.

>Yeah, that's why that guy said they should be in college
Agewise yeah, but they aren't qualified to go to college.
>the issue is that his fucking cast all happened to be snapped.
I get that now, but people liked these characters user, there was no other way of having them brought back. Imagine if MJ was also snapped, that wouldn't have worked for future movies.

>Old Cap lived through a timeline where he showed up early, retired early, and Sam was already Captain America.

he literally went back in time to his own past, despite them saying thats not possible in the movie, because they confirmed peggys kids were his

Even Vulture's kid?

>because they confirmed peggys kids were his
Source?
Also that would have been another timeline, because as far as I'm aware she didn't have any kids in the prime timeline.

screenrant.com/captain-america-father-peggy-carter-kids-mcu/

>because they confirmed peggys kids were his

Nice headcanon. Peggy herself describes the father, her husband, as a different person. He always was.
He was never revealed because she had her own show which got cancelled.
marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Peggy_Carter's_Husband

looper.com/160009/endgame-screenwriters-confirm-the-father-of-peggys-kids/

>Should Marvel Studios eventually confirm that Markus and McFeely's intent for Cap's arc is the canon -

You fail at reading, user.

Who knows. The next movie should be something about the Sinister Six, right? So Vulture would need to come back, and by extension his family. Hard to tell whether she would be aged up or not depending on contracts.
Yeah but this is the writers' intent in the movie, it wasn't conveyed in the actual movie and in fact it wasn't really considered beyond them conceptualizing it. I think we would need to refer to the commentary in the Bluray during that scene to know what the directors tried to convey there, because as Banner explained, if you go back to your own past, that past becomes your future, what happened to you until that point cannot change.

Howard Stark found the Tesseract while looking for Steve. SHIELD has had it since like ten minutes after The First Avenger ended

I basically interpreted it as this. The shit timeline happens as an alternate branch simultaneously, until the moment the items are returned, where it is nulled out and returns to the normal line of events.

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>because as Banner explained, if you go back to your own past, that past becomes your future, what happened to you until that point cannot change.

Its not complicated.
Ancient one added that you CAN create alternate timelines though.
Its how Dr. Strange was able to check 14 million different possibilities.

>In fact, Captain Marvel fucked up the continuity in its movie.
>Captain America and the Tessaract are recovered in 2010.
>But in Captain Marvel, the government has found the tessaract long ago and the professor was using it to make a super plane, which exploded and gave Captain Marvel her powers.
>So why was Captain America recovered in 2010? He went down with the Tessaract in hand. You can't have one without the other.
You bring up some excellent points there but you forgot that the Tesseract was recovered earlier than that, SHIELD has had it since the 70's because it didn't sink along with Steve. And Pegasus Labs is an extension of SHIELD so they had the Tesseract all along, while Mar-Vell was a scientist within Pegasus so it stands to reason that she had access to it while building the Lightspeed Engine.

I feel like some aspects of this should've been explained a bit better during Captain Marvel but I get why they didn't because it would've spoiled the twist regarding the Tesseract powering her. Still, I assumed Mar-Vell had special access to it given her SHIELD connections.

>Ancient one added that you CAN create alternate timelines though.
Yeah, that much is a given, her qualms were about the "dark timelines" where no Stones were present, creating an imbalance in those universes.

I think its pretty much a given that Cap could not reconcile the alternate timelines.

We're getting that Loki series, unless its a sort of prequel, one must asssume its about the Loki that lived.

The premise of that series is Loki basically goofing around in that timeline, intervening in historical events while using the Space Stone. So yeah, that timeline is definitely screwed, we just don't know how much.

But, you have to taken into account the possibility of the stone never returning as all outcomes are possible. So they can repair one timeline but another will always be fucked.

Yeah, if the stone or item isn't returned, there's a second fucked up timeline. If it does get returned "later" it's actually getting returned exactly when it's stolen, so it's like nothing actually splits. If not though, it's fucked.

Yeah but that created a split time line so there's still a universe out there without stones or the hammer

No because going back to the past to put the stones / Mjolnir where they were originally taken fixes the timeline. That's what Banner was explaining to the Ancient in New York.

Nah bud that just creates another split universe. Each time travel event creates a split in the timeline.

If they are returned to the exact same point.

That's the trick and third possibility, they are returned at a different point where while that universe isnt fucked without the stone, it still branched out.

Not him but I understand what you're going for now:

Quantum time travel implies there's a timeline where they traveled there, and one where they didn't. It's as fucked as it sounds, but follow me here. That's two timelines already, which is nutty as fuck.

So when they go to the past and retrieve one of the stones, they create two more timelines, one where they eventually return the stones, and one where they DIDN'T, for a reason or another. That's four timelines total.

So the ideal scenario here (and what happened in the movies) is to go through the timeline when they take the stones and return them, while there's 3 other timelines where nothing happens, where they travel to the past but don't retrieve the stones, and where the stones are retrieved but never returned. Basically, pure Boolean logic that branches from a single event (them traveling back in time).

The possibilities are crazy but you can easily excise a couple of these because they're essentially inconsequential to the narrative, since their presence (or non-presence) in those timelines whatsoever doesn't affect the final outcome (the Stones getting retrieved), it's only an issue if they'r pulled from the timeline.

DUDE ITS NOT LIKE BACK TO THE FUTURE
>Its exactly like back to the future

It's not. 2014 Nebula kills Nebula Prime and she didn't disappear, so... No.

BRO WHAT IF...

The movie LITERALLY has one scene where a character raises the exact same point as you and is convinced that handling the stone she's guarding won't doom her universe to save the other.

How retarded do you have to be to not understand a Marvel movie ?

So there is a timeline where they just standed in the portal without nothing happening?

Yeah, because quantum physics works with statistics and chance, so even with a time traveling machine at their disposition, there's a possibility in some universe where it simply didn't work. Just the creation of the time travel mechanism itself opens the possibility of another timeline where it didn't exist, and then subsequent timelines where it's not used at all.
Those are redundant because ultimately they're virtually the same as the Prime timeline, but should be considered in order to properly track the changes created by timeline tampering.

if thats the case what exactly was the point of returning everything at the end? just for shits and giggles?

I think he meant it only creates a 'split universe' if you were to not return everything at the exact point you took them from.

Oh! So it's like that episode of Family Guy where Stewie build a teleporter and one version of them arrive at destination and the other version of them just stand without nothing happening!

Just turn your brain off brah

Exactly. That's the sorta thing to consider when working on time travel, every possibility creates another that's the direct opposite to it.
You create more damage by not returning the stones than by doing it, and statistically speaking, the likelihood that they wouldn't return them is actually pretty HIGH because they could have died in the middle of battle in a way or another (I'm discounting the fact that they wouldn't have bothered to return them because The Ancient One always gives them the pep talk, but the possibility of them ignoring her is pretty low).
Basically in Endgame we witnessed the very rare possibility where things went as well as possible, despite all the issues they had to get them.

this is brought up in dr strange. brainlets will continue to struggle with their cap living in same timeline stupidity

How did he put the reality stone back into Jane?

Only because Strange gave it up. Thats what convinced her. Once she heard that.

She knew Strange had forseen the action as necessary for the best possible outcome.

Very carefully.

D-D-Did Cap cuck Thor? Is that why they broke up?

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Look it’s a “OP pretends to be stupid for Yous” thread. He does this a lot. One time he tried to argue T’Challa cheated and had no rights to the throne

Considering how out of character was Cap at the end, sure why not.

There's still an infinite number of universes where it doesn't regardless of them returning the stones for an infinite number of reasons. That's the whole point of infinite universes. All possible outcomes do happen. Again, our heroes doom an infinite number of universes just to save their own.

It's the same reason why the ending of Bioshock Infinite doesn't make sense. You cannot close off a temporal loop like this game brings up by killing one person because of the infinite universes that exist to counteract it.

so was it time travel or dimension hopping?

Time travel is dimension hopping because you cannot affect your own timeline. The mere act of time travel is a paradox. Appearing in a previous point in time displaces the atoms and particles that were there before you suddenly appeared thus changing their movement and where they would be when you left to travel back in time. Time travel always creates a new universe.

one they put into theaters

>One in the stink tony

>Time travel is dimension hopping because you cannot affect your own timeline. The mere act of time travel is a paradox
And let it be known, scientists have determined that if time travel were possible, this is the way it would work, to prevent inconsistencies. Look into the Novikov self-consistency principle.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle

then she picks it up and pegs him

They had to explain in interviews after the film that Steve jumped back when he was done living his life. I guess they wanted to do that "young person goes to the past and reappears in the present as an old person" cliche, which is annoying because it only served to confuse people.

>No
Fucking check your eyes, retard, Cap takes the hammer back at the end

It was established in the movie that the stones were only just barely capable of what they did and the exertion of the unsnap still almost killed Hulk, adding more complexity to it would not be a good idea.

Not if you only go forward in time

Never did understand that either. Make your first use to make the thing not kill you in the process. I thought these guy's supposed to be smart.

Bro the stones are not a magic lamp, you cannot use them to change their own nature.

They would change you so you wouldn't die, not change themselves.

You already saw how they were fucking up Hulk just by merely wearing the gauntlet, I pretty much doubt they could've devised a way to avoid them getting hurt any further at the moment of the Snap.
Also Thanos used them twice and was truly messed up, but he didn't die. It's puny mortals like Tony who can't withstand it, but Thor, Hulk and (arguably) Captain Marvel should've been able to use it at least twice while getting nerfed forever.

Strange knew the millions of timelines. Potentially, so did Chthon

Who is that?

Perlmutter sucks.

By even making a Civil War movie they were shitting on him, too. That event pretty much totalled Iron Man as a hero for a long time because they had to make both sides more and more extreme and stupid. Russo MCU movies are also always more edgy than necessary, but it only really worked in TWS.

A big part of Scarlet Witch's backstory.

Don't ask questions you don't want the answer to

You're no better than Thanos if you want to genocide all the people born in the last five years.

Movies are art. They are just not for making money.

this

i mean they literally said in the actual movie that time travel was impossible unless you've already traveled back, which is then predestination

this is a fairly accurate representation of the paradoxes involved in most time travel plots - you can't change the past without a reason to do so, and you have no reason to do so if the past has been changed

meanwhile you're up here arguing that because there are infinite parallel universes where they can't do shit they're assholes in the one universe they can, which happens to be the one they live in, which is just absurd

even the Thanos at the end of the movie isn't their Thanos, because their Thanos is still dead - isn't saving their own universe from Thanos by restoring all the things he destroyed AND another universe from Thanos by killing him circa 2014 enough heroism for you? they've literally prevented another universe experiencing not only the Snap but all the shit Thanos did while getting the stones together, and restored their own universe and kept all the people who were born in the five years after the snap alive as well

but no you're mad because nobody went back in time and fucked their own grandmother, well whoop de fuckin doo user, go back to Futurama if that's what you want you boomer piece of shit

Bro the thing with movies is even those "art" directors, if they stop making money, nobody wants to fund their movies anymore. It's why Gus Van Sant has been making fewer and fewer movies over the years, because everything that wasn't Good Will Hunting flopped and producers are hesitant to keep burning money on him.

Steve took her out to dinner and asked her to open up her wormhole.

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Does Thor turn back into human Thor when he's away from it for too long?

If by "human" you mean fat slacker, then apparently yes.

Next movie is Kraven

I thought the MCU contract to use Spider-Man ended after Far From Home, did they extend it?

Oh no.

That's just called living.

>Quantum mechanics doesn't care about what a writer has to say about time travel.
This is a fictional story, user. The universe in it works however the creators say it does, even if it makes no sense. And especially if two different groups involved in making it disagree about how it works.

>I thought the MCU contract to use Spider-Man ended after Far From Home, did they extend it?

No, the contract was for three movies, excluding guest appearances (Civil War, Infinity War, Endgame). So Spidey's got one more to go.

You make the first thing you wish that they don't hurt you, not make the glove protect you.