House of X #2 storytime

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Self-hating mutie. Sad

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As someone who liked the first 2 issues this didn't feel like it was as important as Hickman made it. Not in the sense the revelation was unimportant, it is but the fact this needed an entire issue when it could've maybe been 5 pages plus a couple charts

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>Maybe 11.

Boom calling it now. The 11th life will be the main Marvel continuity.

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>fucking flatscans hate us and sheeeiii
>burn this foo alive
So Hickman wants us to hate Muties, right?

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King really just threw the 10s under the bus huh?

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Lol

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The Squid Palace!! Nice.

I think she'll use the 11th life to never give Xavier the idea for Krakoa and reset everything. there won't be a solution, just a return to a balanced present.

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interesting

say what you will about Hickman's X-men run but the design throughout has been on point

Thanks, OP. I've already pre-ordered the hardcover release.

FUCK CHARTS
FUCK MUTIES
FUCK INHUMIES WHILE I'M AT IT

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Just like in spoilers thread, there is no sixth life, I wonder if that's important

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Hey look, it's the most important moment in X-Men history. I like how they didn't reuse the page drawn by Silva and instead let Pepe Larraz draw it

HICKMAN PLS

If Mutant Manifestation is the point of divergence, then surely Hickman is going to place more importance on it

This is the only way I can rationalise this run. As a continuation of the idea of mutants as minorities it's horribly lacking in self-awareness. As an argument that all muties deserve genocide, it is a sound and convincing argument.

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Either it'll turn out to be the main Marvel universe or it'll be a universe where she was a collaborator with the humans despite Destiny's threats

So basically the 10th timeline is our "real" timeline (since there Moira married McTaggert)

"You know what comic book readers these days love? Charts!"

Marvel editorial, 2019

I mean, I added the new #1 to my pull list, and I'm in for Hickman's wild ride (I mean, besides that and Morrison's GL there ain't much worth reading, bar a mini here and there), but I'm thinkign he's going for pure Sci-Fi and "Muties are real awful fucks".

I really want spin off series of Apoc-War

Huh, what happened at the end of the Apocalypse one?

So how did she live her 10th life if her 9th life with Apocalypse didn't end in her death yet.

It's nothing to do with Marvel, they gave Hickman free reign to do his thing which is charts, typically because it works out really well

Nope, timeline 10th is the main one, she married McTaggert there (something that Hickman will probably acknowledge as part of her keikaku) and it has the events of it.
Proteus will probably see play too.

Y'Know, Hickman's giving a ton of attention to the Machines as well. Makes me think he'll get around to using Vision, Pym, Stark and the like at some point during his run.

Since the chart implies that Moira lived for a long time in that timeline I wouldn't be surprised if it got revisited.

That's odd, both of them are grey

Shenanigans.

The universe ended I guess?
Which I guess means that she'll always reincarnate in Universe/Earth-7/8?

You know what, it has been very very long since fiction made me feel this kind of existential dread and anxiety to know what is going to come.

Kudos, Hickman, you are really doing a masterpiece. Let's wait you don't fuck it up.

What if Apoc just saw that his approach didn't work, and in a desperate attempt to fix the future, got her to somehow activate her powers before death and recruit him for Xavier's dream.

Recruiting Apoc, the embodiment of mutant extremism for your team seems to be easily one of the biggest "fuck you rules" that they could do together.

Hey, I love Morrison's GL too and I'm also having a laugh at current JL so I'm not here to judge. May I suggest Doom Patrol: Weight of the World? It's a very, very different animal from the most lauded DP run, it's a bit of an acquired taste because of how twee it usually is but it's growing on me and the art alone is worth a look

Which means a part of that timeline worked and she would probably use whatever she found in that timeline to use in her 10th life to save mutantkind without ushering Apocalypase or something. Alright Marvel hire me as Hickman's sidekick.

HELLO OLD FRIEND

THIS IS WHT_OUDO

>no sixth life
>possible still in 9th live?
>alive in 10th live
>possible 11th life
>ultimate universe casing back in the 1th issue
HICKMAN STOP

Sorry, THIS IS WHAT YOU DO

And now we know the symbol for Y

Never was big on DP. I have a 10GB folder of all their runs and I've not gotten around to it yet. Let alone watched the show. I like GL because it's Sci-Fi. Hell, I got into the X-Men because of the Sci-Fi stuff; I don't care about the nigger and tranny analogies. My Pull List at this point (counting the October solicits) is just this:
>X-Men
>Doctor Doom
>Grendel: Devil's Odyssey
>East Of West
>Black Monday Murders
>Tony Stark: Iron Man
>Deathstroke
>The Green Lantern
I was gonna drop comics in general, but I was keeping the Pull List to a ~30$ point so that I could keep getting EoW. Morrison's GL and Hickman's X-Stuff are just keeping me in the game a bit more and much as I hate to admit it I'm kinda looking forward to 2020 for Iron Man, even though the actual book is shit.

lol Hickman just shat on all the X-men runs outside of Kirby and Lee's, Claremont's and his own run

What is he supposed to pay tribute to every line up by every writer?

I used to like Destiny before these pages.

She still eventually dies and resets.

So do Moiras powers hard stop at 11, or is she actually immortal, but Destiny knows that she dies before her powers manifest on the 11th turn?

I want to see a what-if of all of Moira's lives where she won and then threats mutants don't know about show up and ruin everything since the Mutants don't play nice with others they have little to no knowledge or real shit that the specialized heros keep back
>We finally won
>All the flatscan supers are dead and everyone else is enslaved or dead
>Ultron shows up and kills everything
>Dormamu or Shuma-gorath shows up and Magik has no idea how to deal with them
>Thanos show up and rapes Apocolypse in front of everyone
It would be cathartic as fuck to see the X-men get shitstomped because they can't play nice with others

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>9th and 10th life arrows keep on going
>Next page the 10th life arrows continue into PoX #2
Fuckin neat

Pointing out Hickman has used charts for over a decade is not actually a personality

No.

Wait, so she lives for years after the Magneto timeline and not a single psychic read her goddamn mind to avert the sentinel end?
And how did she live to 74 in the first timeline?
Sentinels are apparently constantly popping up decades before this.

does it live up Yea Forums

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Well then...

I think a debate could be had if she's being brutally pragmatic here or evil. It's pretty awful what she is saying and doing but it is to prevent the genocide of her people.

I don't remember Destiny being this ruthless. She was always Mystique's better half.

t. Jonathan Hackman

No.
What kind of question is that?
Everyone knew it wouldn't live up to the expectations

They should have gone with Ultron rather than sentinels for one of those timelines. Maybe the ones where Sentinels are stopped. What the text says makes sense (AI machines will develop due to general society, not just a single person), but then they show the very same Sentinels from the other timelines which doesn't make much sense.

Hold on here.

3 years between New X-Men and House of X? What the fuck

Incursions did it. Blame Franklin and Doom for the illogically compressed timeline.

Supposedly, the entire X-men history takes place within a decade now.

That's entirely dependent upon if she's manipulating Moira.
Moira's only goal was staying dead. If she's not manipulating moira, then the only purpose of that was malice because she could have simply told Moira how to die permanently or that she actually had a limited number of lives and be done with it.

If she's manipulating Moira, she's managing to be worse than post character assassination Xavier in terms of manipulation since Xavier at least never set people on fire for shits and giggles during a mindbreak session.

The core problem here is that she never bothers to actually UNDERSTAND Moira. She went for murder when it all could have easily been solved via talking, eg Telling Moira she actually has a limited amount of lives so that she doesn't go for the sweet release of death via a mutant cure. I'm not unnerved by Destiny being brutally pragmatic. I'm unnerved because she didn't HAVE to do any of that.

I like it. I never expected this or the revelation that she would give him here and how it could change so much, as if I'm getting it right this is in the 'decade before they should meet', in other words a decade before they met each other in 616 time, so a long way to learn and build on what was learned.

>like how they didn't reuse the page drawn by Silva and instead let Pepe Larraz draw it
Yeah, bonus for that.

...Guys this is stupid.

Yea Forums seems willing to throw the word important into the fires of hell in worship of the word dissapointment. I wonder if when Importat emerges from the grave on the third day does it extract any satisfaction from the word disappointment or does Important find another Important?

Some user tried to come up with the theory that X could actually represent any number due to sliding time scale ie X^1=15 instead of X^1=10 as Year 0 is an entirely internal scale but I think this kinda breaks that theory rright?

Yeah it's almost like she's an evil mutant or something.

No. Like most Hackman stuff it’s just sound and fury that turns everyone into weaklings or pricks.

She was usually evil, but never torture a person to death for fun evil.

They match the red/grey from the reading order page. The red ones in previous issues were teasing this issue, which is red. So we'll next see a red one in HoX #4.

Marvel overpromoted this as some sort of game changing earth shattering revelation and it really wasn't at all. Hopefully those other two issues they said were important actually turn out to be important. But this is underwhelming.

what's the translation for the 3 letters under the x?
T_ _??

Sorry, I'm lost now. I don't understand how Moira could reveal the previous 9 lives to Xavier when she did and it turn out like our known universe/616 did. I don't see how it wouldn't alter everything Xavier did.

Ten life times and you never thought of getting the Machines to like humanity?

The first superhero in Marvel is a fucking robot. You know how Ultron gets made—go talk to Pym and tell him not to fuck up ao you make an Ultron that’s sane.

You also know about Warlock and Forge. How the fuck do you keep losing to robots?

This is like that “in the end I couldn’t beat the cock” meme but you had ten lifetimes to prep.

Hickman plots fall apart when you squint at them. Just look at the giant wad of author fiat that was the incursions.

it's ten. fuck me. im a damn idiot. damnit hickman

She dies at some point hundreds or thousands of years in the future or something and begins again, as always. From our perspective as readers, all of her previous nine lives are already in the past.

When Hackman gets ahold of a character, they either become weak victims or total bastards.

Destiny fucking specifies that she's undetectable to other mutants you tard. If Moira doesn't want you to read her mind, you don't get to.

Marvel editorial has disowned the entire era that started from Decimation. It wasn't even included in those seminal x-moment they had even though the X-Men editor thought that everything in the past decade was part of a post-Decimation era.

We don't know yet. We haven't seen what the significance of it will turn out to have been.

>It’s X for ten! Aren’t I clever?

This mni-series probably will introduce the idea that there were tons of hidden goals behind Xavier's and Moira's past actions.

Wouldnt that immediately mark her as strange to the telepath?

>In the end, I couldn’t win against bot.

[TH] [E] [N]
The character for "T", when inverted, is "TH".

Seminal X-Men moments as in "these creative team changed the game for x-men". Decimation did nothing but kill off hundreds of characters and was helmed by a fucking Bendis event.

If you're going to complain, do it right.

Do you seriously think she'd care to stop them? Stop being retarded user.
She could have done a second try via revealing (assuming that this somehow didn't become public during his rampage like it seems to not have for some inexplicable reason.) why Magneto went off the rails to her interrogator if they were a psychic mutant. Most Marvel heroes would even side with destroying sentinels so she just fucked up a chance to get mutants AND other superhumans teaming up. Nonmutant heroes all died in DOFP opposing the sentinels. X-men comics nowadays like to pretend nonmutants don't care about sentinels, but there is a whole ton of firepower being ignored by Moira in these timelines.

>Moira issue
>No mention of her daughter Wolfsbane
>The X-Men’s Doctor McCoy who gave her life to cure th legacy virus is now an evil bitch
Fuck you Hickman.

They will know she's psychic resistant and that's it. There's thousand of psychic resistant or psychic trained people in the Marvel Universe.

I still subscribe to the idea that House of X is not current 616, and is, in fact, the hidden 6th life.

Maybe she got hooked up to NImrod's kid and it took an eternity to die?

I wonder who the four horsemen are in this timeline.

*616 is the hidden 6th life

>6 for 616!
Can someone shoot Hickman already?

That her problem is Terminators and not once did she try to get in contact with Pym says a whole fucking lot.

So how is anything they’re doing going to prevent Sentinels from feeding them their robo-penis?

Didn't Hickman want Cyclops back to being Xaviers best boy? I wonder if he's in on this or if it'll all be new.

Also does this make Xavier more of a bastard than Cauldur?

It's just gonna be different this time cause reasons, ok?

>10 timelines of mutants getting BTFO by robots
The user that posted about robots in the first thread was fucking prophetic.

T. user reading Morrisons New X-Men

Mutant sentinels.

Insert "mutation" code in the sentinel program with the help of Doug, and either have the original Master Mold killed or the mutated sentinels kill off the previous generation.

>To me, my ten good men!

I like this Mrs. Apocalypse Costume.

>Charles, turning everyone into pod people will allow us to defeat the robots!
>...In the end, I couldn’t beat the bot

What's actually the point of making Moira a horseman? She doesn't have any combat powers.

We had those. they were smart enough to read a science textbook, learn the definition of mutant, and realize that means they have to destroy all life.
They threw themselves into the sun to prevent that because Jubilee was too adorable to kill.
I'm not even making that up.

And what loyalty would these giant biological evangelion monsters have to Moira and friends!

So...is Moira aware of the fact that Black Panther, Reed Richards, Franklin, Doom, the Beyonders and the Molecule Man restarted the multiverse or not?

The goal isn't to prevent it, it is to merge the sentinels and mutants as species. If machine evolution is as inevitable as mutant evolution, then they should complement, not oppose.

That's rude as fuck

It's not machines or AI but specifically Sentinels made to fight against mutants. Ultron is a massive bind spot for the X-men though, they'd probably treat him like they would Bastion or Nimrod and that would be how he'd kill them all

TLDR.
Jeffries wanting to fuck a robot is the savior of the mutant race?

Welp, was too good an idea to not be used before already.

Given that she’s had ten tries to rally the combined magic, super science, and reality warping power of the marvel universe to stop some beep boops and failed every time I don’t think she knows anything about anything.

I guess it makes a tiny bit more sense if she's not actually a genius? She's actually an average person and the average person is pretty dumb.

Still it’s an AI problem, and not once has she looked into an AI solution.

She’s exceptionally stupid.

She should know this thing called “magic” exists in this universe. Her furry adopted daughter has a demon child sorceress as a friend. Use magic!

So she didn't die by Legacy virus? That was a fucking golem? And why the fuck it happened after E for Extinction?

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Then what user says Here makes the most sense as Hickman's endgame. Reaching the machine/mutant singularity seems the obvious way to go if they want to survive, and also acknowledges something that came to my mind before.

Robots are simply the next step in evolution after mutants. Mutants just never got their chance to rule the world like humanity did.

This is fucking stupid.

What are the chances Hickman himself will return them to satus quo like he did in Secret Wars?

SO the black arrows in reading order implies the continuation of year 10 timeline .
That means we are going to see the apocalypse and marriage reality again , if the arrows are red or brown.

I kind of feel like Hickman should have come back to try something new for him like a solo book or a street level book. Otherwise I can't help but feel like that is where amy comic writer should go after their previous run being a big multiversal extinction event.

>not once did she try to get in contact with Pym says a whole fucking lot.
>Future 11 is when Moira finally tries super human intersectonality
>Marries Hank Pym and they work together to build the ultimate Sentinel hunting machine; Ultron
>The X-men make a habit to find and train new super humans too, Spider-man ends up an X-man along with Cap and others
>Hulk ends up getting the help he needs and Bruce now has full control thanks to psychic therapy
>Magneto see the co-operation and rejects his racist ideals and becomes one of the greatest heroes
>Tony Stark ends up developing Extremist public consumption, providing it for free to x-gene negatives
>Humanity ends up with a solar empire within 10 years keeping the Skrulls and Kree from fucking around on Earth
We gotta think BIGGER

To be fair, everyone has been trying to "fix" sentinels for decades. Almost nobody considers the "Kill all Mutants" line of coding to be a feature instead of a bug. The US military in the 616 dumps billions into trying to find a way to reprogram sentinels to have the working AI without that line but somehow it's impossible to make the AI work without it.
Since time travellers are sometimes involved in sentinel tech, (Cable and deadpool is where I saw that I think?) it's probably beyond her capabilities to fix it because the seeds were already planted too.

>Apoc beating everyone
>with Moira taking up a horse spot
Bullshit

100%
He said in interviews at the start that you always put the toys back on the shelf after you're done, only adding or modifying

>professor X/Magneto's fight happened 2 years before E for Extinction
Hackman is a hack

Moira has a catalogue of all of the mutant and human threats to Apocalypse. it's surprising that she didn't win.

This kinda makes sense, she's so focused on Mutants that she's completely blind to the bigger picture, complete tunnel vision. She also has hundreds of years of knowledge so she probably thinks she's smarter than everyone else.

how do you guys think this is good story telling

so moira has a spirit circle ability
yikes, hickman

Lifetime 10 can't be the main Marvel Universe since Moira died (or faked her death, as the chart retcons) under Claremont a few months before Morrison took over and wiped out Genosha. These events are swapped on the chart.

Jesus Christ just give them HERBIEs programming or Jim Hammond’s brain patterns this isn’t hard muties.

that's a terrible mindset, damn.

I don’t. This is just as shitty as his Avengers.

When your fans lap up your piss it’s easy not to give a fuck about your writing.

>implying Hammond doesn't want to kill all muties

The X-men barely know anything about the wider Marvel universe, I doubt any of them even know there were two Human Torches even after working alongside Namor.

In comicbooks you never break permanently the toys, user, if you think that's terrible then maybe the big 2 just aren't for you

>after getting BTFO by a mutant once, the person known as Moira decided that mutants are the next step in human evolution
>after getting constantly BTFO by man/machine, the person known as Moira decided to humans are evil and she would be willing to work with literal villains rather than think that man machine hybrid are the next step of evolution
This is weird. Is she just stupid or is she really just bias towards muties?

>Retards unironically criticizing Hickman for having a mindset that was shared by Morrison and other big writers already

You fucks will find anything to complain at, seriously?

You aren't looking at the big picture, she probably tried some sort of technological singularity in timeline 6 but it failed, and she's trying to implement some form of it on timeline 10.

I really like the cover

Here comes Kinoman's X-Men

>is the mutie bias towards muties

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>When the robots kick your ass so hard you decide to give up and become them
Holy fuck. How is it with Forge and all the mutine Uber geniuses muties still can’t beat some robots built by Flatscans after TEN TRIES.

yeah, I don't really like the big 2 for things like these. They're not allowed to evolve.

She's really stupid, she has above average intelligence and several lifetimes worth of experience but she's not super genius level and has insane tunnel vision and no scope whatsoever. The fact that she hasen't wasted all of her do overs is impressive

BASED Jim and his Sentinel boys taking back the house he built from the mugga menace.

Is this from Morrison's or something previous?

>spirit circle ability
that would be the saving grace of this nonsense, if moira's ability has to lead to a predestined fianl outcome in this 10 life, it would explain the silly decisions she made in all her lives

Are you fucking kidding me?

>Figure out how a sentinel is built
>Build one first and make it Mega Man
IS THIS REALLY SO FUCKING HARD MOIRA?

Ok I wasn't expecting that. Hickman genuinely surprised me. And I learnt to read from X-Men comics I've read it that long.

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Don't you dare compare the masterpiece that is Spirit Circle with this dribble.

So, is she rebooting everytime, gettin "back in time" every new life she lives, or is she reborn continuosly while the centuries go on?

His thinking doesn't say no evolving. It means add things or change things, but don't leave your successor less things to work with.

It's pragmatic thinking because in Big 2 your alternatives are A) plan a return to a relative status quo into your story so the next writer can do their thing or B) leave a radically changed situation, which the next writer will just expend time and effort undoing anyway

>now there are robots demanding robot rights
You fucked up.

She's clearly rebooting

No she reboots. Like the movie Groundhog Day. But her life over and over.

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Her problem is robots and she never contacted Pym who made a robot so powerful and advance it took over a galaxy.

Moira is IQ 85.

And then Ultron kills everyone.

she goes back to when she is born

Given how Marvel’s multiverse works she’s just going from universe to universe.

I don't know why nobody has suggested that the chart showing the timelines of 9 and 10 not ending is because it's not complete? Like it clearly can go on for thousands of years in the 9th life and end and she's back at the start. Duh

And what exactly did AoA change? If they are going to include that and not HoM/Decimation, it's pretty clear the people there are not fond of the results from House of M and Decimation.

Is it just me or does the Sentinel look like Hawkeye?

It's similar to when a Cassandra Nova possessed Xavier outed himself as a mutant in Moz's run. But isn't meant to be the same exact moment since it's from an earlier timeline that Moira lived through.

She's the personification of "everyone is stupid but me"

>or is she reborn continuosly while the centuries go on?
How could you possibly read this issue and come to this conclusion?

I've never read any x-men comics and this is too confusing for me

>Not trusting robots to save humanity
Someone didn’t read Foundation...

Marvel also calls this current Post-Secret Wars 616, Universe 8 (or is it 7?). So they're not consistent.

>Apoc and Moira have a pet Sinister

How would cloning Moira work with her powers?

616-8 I believe is the proper term for it now

Wow deep dive! I fucking love Hickman

Marvel and DC both run on the “fuck I don’t know it’s somewhere in He multiverse” rule.

Long-time X-Men ally who was a human geneticist and on-off again love interest for both Xavier & Magneto at times, is revealed to have been a secret mutant all long, reliving events Groundhog Day-style.

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What if muties meet the SCP Foundation? Can the muties win?

It actually sold and it pretty much started up the "big event" craze that lasts to this day.

user, I know you started probably reading comics in the decimation era, but really, the late 00's were mediocre as fuck.

Why is Destiny dead? She is a fucking great character. She is better as the leader of the brotherhood than Mystique.

If led by Cyclops, yes. They can take down MU god level opponents.

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This lady trusted Sinister and Xavier. she is incompetent as fuck.

They main universe is still called 616 or Prime Universe as it used to be, it was the Multiverse who canghed from 7th to 8th.

Might just be a misprint

But SCP got this guy. youtu.be/VwZ-xCAbixA

>SCP

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I can imagine a life she decided to share with Reed or Doom (cause Hickman) and she studied the control of these lifetimes

I'm sure this 10th life is not the main universe. Otherwise this retcon causes way too much questions.

>And then the Sentinels showed up.

No no no, anything but your cringe compilation, please!

Different strokes, I suppose. While I don't EVER care for when a company tells me an issue is "important", I enjoyed this issue way more than the first two Hickman issues. In fact this is the only one I've cared about thus far.

Why doesn't Moira have a cute accent?

>a mutant Whois invisible to other mutants
Well, I guess that explains why she never pinged on Cerebro as a mutie

These two pages are worse than that Hunter x Hunter page that gets memed.

That's a different thing. It's 8 sequential versions of the multiverse, each running from big bang to heat death of everything, at which point the cycle starts anew (except Secret Wars was an artifical end of the 7th and start of the 8th).

616 is just one reality contained within the 7th/8th iteration of reality.

>we are going to see the apocalypse and marriage reality again
Dosn't one of the last cover have Moira and Apocalypse? Like PoX 5.

The thing about sentinels is that they're extremely adaptive. They don't want to lose that part since being able to make a counter strategy to any powerset they encounter is the entire point of why sentinels are a useful invention if anyone manages to stop them from going AWOL to destroy mutants.

Hickman hates cuteness and positivity.

Muties can't beat a bunch of purple beep boops. No way can they beat SCP.

>Ten lifetimes and muties can't beat something mankind made back in the 1940's.

I think it's time muties admitted that they're a genetic joke and humans are their masters.

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KILLER QUEEN
BITES ZA DUSTO

Maybe user factored in the sliding timeline?

So is Moira gonna use her womanly ways and knowledge to seduce and convince Apocalypse to join Xavier? Some anons predicted the old man Logan was talking about in PoX was Apoc
Also I haven't kept up, is Evan completely gone now and we're stuck with classic Apocalypse?

>burn her slowly
>consumes her in a giant fireball
Goddammit Pyro

Sliding timeline is the 3rd rail of Marvel continuity. You know its there, you know its a problem, but you don't dare touch it.

If this is the twist of this run we riot.

Evan is still around. He was in the Age of X-Man mini Apocalypse and the X-Tracts as Apocalypse's son.

She could just live her other nine lives as a super sucessful human. Why would she evel dwell into mutant shit. I honestly think her power is one of the best powers possible

Why else would it be hidden?

I know that. I was trying to explain that to the other user. Plus highlight Marvel aren't consistent showing there being 10 iterations of this reality with the multiverse which itself possibly has had 8 iterations.

Hickman knows he's writing a comic, right?

That doesn't make sense, user. How can Moira meet Xavier for the first time 6 different times, 6 different ways. Not to mention we literally get given a timeline of her different lives in the issue.

Why? It's just boring exposition.

>inb4 Le you just want Le bang pow

Nah but this shit just drones on and on. It's completely killed the pacing.

You have read Hickman comics before right? He uses charts to tell his story as much as actual words and images.

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>Hickman's Daredevil.
>Nothing but charts explaining Matt's radar vision or Kingpin's criminal organization

They caught him as a baby.

>MoiraxEvan
>"ey wee lad, give ya a penny for some /ss/. I'll let ya see a real fanny pack"

>doesn't watch how I met your mother
Hickman aping shitty sitcoms and you're going to love it user!

...

Good news... you got a gig drawing X-Men! One thing though, your page rate will go down, since the writer loves about half the book to be charts and text pages.

If you don't like this, never read Pax Romana or The Nightly News

I would unironically read and enjoy this. Name one other writer who uses fucking flow charts as a medium and actually does it well.

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Wouldn't a this chart better be in some sort of additional side material or something?

Chris Ware.

This chart was completely useless. It never really applied to anything.

What is this? A chart of Avengers underlings?

Hickman Charts are more the main story than the main story. You get used to it.

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The fuck does this even mean?

I think someone really wants to write a story as a graphic designer.

I don't think you understand how Hickman operates. The only time I can think of where he did something like that was the The World issue of East of West that bridged years 1 and 2, but then that issue ended up having normal comic pages too (just less than the charts) and was still important to the plot.

I don't get why everyone is so mad about the charts

The design work in Avenger ( and THE HEART) I get, it didn't add anything to the book really, but here everything is directly, and clearly, related to the main story

>completely white pages with words on it are considered "charts" now
You think a normal book without figures is a "charts gallery"?

She does die, just much much later. That last image of her and Apoc destroying machines have the same machine designs from X3 in PoX #1. So that’s presumably 100 years in the future.

Yeah but it looks cool. It also hints at the teams the Avengers split into eventually just prior to Secret Wars.

Well, yeah, that's exactly the case. Hickman was a graphic designer for years before he ever started writing comics.

>The World issue
>Continues to not tell us anything about the world past America's borders

I want Hickman to write a Star Wars movie. Instead of just an opening text crawl, the movie will stop every five minutes for another screen of just yellow text scrolling over stars for a few minutes.

>"She and Charles Xavier would break all the rules"
>The Magneto timeline and the Apocalypse timeline are shown to be still present
Krakoa is the result of multiple timelines bleeding into each other.
This is all very sci-fi, and, like Hickman said, makes X-Men the center of the Marvel universe once again, but I doubt it will last past his run.

Given that information, you'd think that he'd understand that comics are primarily a visual medium.

People complaining about Hickman charts are like people complaining about why Watchmen has a quarter of its pages taken up with Tales of the Black Freighter.

>This mad about two pages of prose
Bet you hated Batman 663

>The pacing
You are retarded, this is the main story, Xavier and Moira, not the rest.

Because those are supplements that come after the story.

..Are you retarded?

...And how does that beat the robots?

For what it’s worth in the past Hickman used ad pages or got extra pages for his charts. There wasn’t like a trade for story pages. The first two issues weren’t very chart heavy, I don’t get the complaints from this time

When you have gods, super scientist, and interdimensional magicans ending and restarting your universe again and again, mutant right seem to be pretty low on the importance list.

>Would still be better than The Last Jedi

Tales of the Black Freighter, not the text

>I have never read Watchmen

>The Magneto timeline and the Apocalypse timeline are shown to be still present
Is this the power of Hickman writers?

They are not shown to still be present, retardón. Moira's age went beyond the scale of the chart, so it doesn't cover it. Suppose Moira lived 500 years in Life 9, per example. The chart tops at ~80, so such a long timeframe goes beyond the limits of the page.

Why even make charts when your readers can't interpret it?

Anything can be better than the Last Jedi.

Do you mean what if the SCP Foundation made contact with Earth 616? Or what if the SCP Foundation existed in Earth 616? because those are two different scenarios.

It's the easiest shitpost you can make about a Hickman comic without having to engage with the material itself. You need these kinds of shorthands when you want to complain about something you haven't read.

>We need to stop the Sentinels
>Let's merge a bunch of timelines
Uh...great plan?

for an old lady Destiny has rockin' tits.

It's Batfags looking something to be mad at since Immortal Hulk just couldn't be defeated.

>Why even make charts when your readers can't interpret it?
You can only dumb down your content so much.

>It's just gonna be a fucking Mass Effect ending
fuck

Tell me how these are "charts"?

Some of these dates make no sense. The current timeline squeezes in Xavier recruiting the O5 between Year 47 and 49.

The fourth life, which is the one that’s very similar to the current timeline, has that happening at Year 35. Are we supposed to think the current 616, Xavier recruited them in their late 20s?

Not to mention, previous lives have things like Erik going around as Magneto far earlier than the current timeline, which doesn’t jive with the rules of events that Hickman has laid out.

The easiest way to beat the sentinels is to make them a bigger target. What? What do you mean Super Sentinels?

Hard to hate something I don't recall ever reading. I don't think it's being mad to notice that those two pages of text easily would have worked as regular comic pages with images.

If Hickman keeps this up he's going to reach Kubo levels

Based

It's literally the only valid criticism. I thought X-Men was broken as a property post-Bendis. Based Hickman.

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Fucking less than 2 years for 1963 to Morrison as well.

Yeah that's my only problem with the run so far. Squeezing the Marvel sliding timeline into ten years rather than say 15 years is bad.

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>She gets a giant A and not a giant M
Sad

Anyone bitching about this is a complete plebian faggot. This story is dense and it's showing promise for big payoffs.

Not him but the Apocalypse one is pretty mysterious since the arrows at the end of the chart are also the arrows used to indicate the next issue on the series follow along page. Right now the black ones are still going and lead into PoX #2, but the brown ones dont, unless we're comin back to that timeline in another issue, otherwise T9 would be a solid block to show that Moira did die and that the timelone ended.

Life 6: Sinister and Destiny.

Considering the current timeline is similar to Moira’s fourth life, it’s pro safe to say that Moir and Xavier have manipulated events to force history go a certain way.

>Sentient are competent
>Apocalyse isn't a jobber
They expect me to swallow this horseshit?

This isn't Hickman Marvel U has generally only been around for about 14ish years. the FF launched after 9/11 now

Generous of you to call that "prose".

And Morrison's Batman was pretty visual in that issue.

Hickman is too good for capeshit. His literary level is far above and beyond what retarded adhd infected comic readers deserve.

It's not comics and it's definitely not poetry

Hardly, have you seen some of his original material?

Wait, Pyro calls Destiny "mother". I don't think he ever called her that in 616 while they were together in the Brotherhood. Is Hickman going to retcon that they're related?

Nope, now the events of Uncanny X-Men #1 happened 5 years ago.

Shut up, capeshitter. Your kind is literally the most bottom tier when it comes to writing skill, right there with children's book.

Part of me hopes we eventually get a story where mutants are succeeding, all that shit, then one of them has a baby and it's even more superior to homo superior, homo more superior
then they all fucking freak out and do the exact same shit as humanity did to muties before

>His literary level
Name one good novel written by Hickman.

>>Yea Forums

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No? It’s the mindset you have when you work in a medium where status quo is king.

Hickman is just not pretending like Marvel isn’t going to reset what they don’t want to reset.

He calls Mystique mother. And I figured as in that timeline she adopted him like she did Rogue.

Apocalypse vs Nimrod is definitely a storyarc that needs to be explored.

Except the status quo on the x-books is broken. The entire failed line from Bendis all the way to Rosenberg is proof of that.

There are already robots demanding robot rights

Attached: RCO008.jpg (2048x1575, 861K)

The rapist chimpanzee X-men that are planning to rape all of mankind to death is a pinnacle of literature.

Maybe read the issue instead of just looking at the pretty pictures, you fucking moron.

>Hickman is too good for capeshit. His literary level is far above and beyond what retarded adhd infected comic readers deserve.
You are the kind of retard that believes that shit like this is the apex of writing.

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They already killed them.

What? They're not consistent because they're different things.

The 8 iterations of reality are not alternate universes. They are straightforwardly sequential, each one following on directly from its predecessor. Seven times over there was a multiverse, the whole of it died, and then a new one was born its place.

Moira's lives would be alternate universes within a single iteration of reality (ignoring the 7th/8th reality split because it was special and confuses the point). Essentially she lived in one universe, let's call it 606, then time traveled back to her conception and lived a different life in a new splinter reality, let's call this one 607, then she did it again, this time in 608. That process was repeated until at some point she was reborn in 616. But all of those are part of the same iteration of reality.

Secret Wars was great. What are you talking about? At least if you’re going to diss Hickman, diss his Infinity War arc.

>Secret war was great

I cant imagine having this much shit taste

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Fuck off Tommy

Nothing. It’s literally just the Avengers roster.

I cant think of a single good thing came out of Secret war beside it ended the fucking hot garbage of an universe that is Ultimate

>capeshitter has terrible taste and adhd
What a surprise! Oh wait.. Go back to your Geoff Johns and le two page explosion splashes with little substance

Secret Wars is shit

>looking for consequences on a story that was explicitely about rebirth
fuck off

but that's literally what Secret Wars and the preceding buildup was

Oh please everything Rosenberg did was by command from the higher ups, Hickman knew what he wanted to write and made sure that Rosenberg would fall in line with what Hickman was planning

Ghost Racers
Thor Cops
E is for Extinction

He's repplying to Destiny in that panel, so he's calling Destiny "mother". Regardless, they're a lesbian couple so if Pyro considers Destiny his mother, I guess Mystique is too.

>Be Cap
>Literally nuked a city
>It's k
>Be Tony
>Literally went full fascist
>It's k
>Other heroes snap niggas's necks once every two week
>It's k
>Be Pym
>Slapped a bitch just this one time
>Everyone keeps giving you shit
>Not even on the chart

Suffering

Which Mega Man? This is a very important question

Tommy, you don’t hate Hickman. You hate Doom. Get your priorities right and get out of this thread.

Is anyone else bothered that Moira doesn't have her Scottish accent? It's really throwing me off and I can't associate her current version with the original. Unless that's the point Morrison it's trying to do here.

so, like user said, these are the designs of PoX ^3, meaning it's 100 years later. So Moira from timeline 9 lived much much longer, reason for why the arrows of that timeline don't end.

That also means they are hiding the cause of death or the reason she went back in time in that timeline, so it must be important for her and Xavier's final plan.

That isn't even from Secret Wars. That is from Hickman's F4, in which Doom also became omnipotent.

If Hickman was this genius of literature that you believe he is, why did he write the same damn story two times in a row (DOOM BECOMES OMNIPOTENT OMG)?

FUCK OFF TOMMY

Tommy, one again you hate Doom not Hickman. Your hatred of Doom is blinding you to the fact that Hickman wrote a great storyline. If you hated Hickman you would also make autistic threads about his other works but you don’t because you never read them and you only care about specific characters.

I want to fuck Paco Lips Moira

Not really, that was timeline 3 or something and the main Marvel universe is timeline 10.

Fuck off, Rosenfag

>HURR DOOM IS GOD (2)
>Time for original donut steel characters
>Which literally dont matter
>K it is getting near the end now
>So, Doom get btfo by Bendis's original donut steel
>Also we cherry pick somewhat popular from that universe and bring them over to the main one
>And nooone asks anything about it
>The end
>Good

This post hard proves what I wrote Thanks.

Pym wasn't on the team at the time

Who are the other 3 Horsemen? One of them is even on the cover, so I assume they'll be important later.

It’s the 10th life, as reiterated by the end of this issue. You dumb motherfucker.

FUCK YOUR CHARTS, TONY!

>Implying Tommy isn't right.
Hickman treats Doom like his waifu.

I mean at this point she's well over 500 years old depending on how long the Apocalypse War went on, she can probably be as incomprehensible as she wants

Doom went out like a bitch though.

>Hickman wrote a great storyline.
All Hickman stories are derivative of the same thing: LE DOOM BECOMES LE GOD. Marvelfags are bound to love it. Normal people are not.

So, about Moira's sixth life that wasn't shown: what do you wanna bet that it involves Moira seeking Doom for help and Doom becoming omnipotent?

not him, and not a Rosenfag, but everything that Rosenberg did stinks of editorial mandate. Cyclops alive, Jean grey back with Cyclops, Emma as a villain and fucking off, killing off pretty much everyone but the main line of X-men in preparation for whatever Hickman wanted to write, just to turn out that Hickman would end up using all of those characters.

I'm not even going to reply any more to you after this. I don''t give a shit about characterfagging and Doom. You don't really don't want to talk about Hickman. Fuck off and make your own autistic thread about how much you hate Doom

>killing off pretty much everyone but the main line of X-men in preparation for whatever Hickman wanted to write, just to turn out that Hickman would end up using all of those characters.

they knew what Hickman was doing! And even if they didn't stuff like killing Sunspot when you know he's one of Hickman's favs makes no sense.

No idea, Hickman calls them "the first horsemen" something similar to the "final horsemen" concept that Remender introduced, they're basically his OCs, they must be old farts dating back to Egypt and Apocalypse's first reign

Making a timeline with specific dates in the Marvel Universe is a mistake. Especially since if we take this at face value, the X-Men have been around for like 6 years. And everything between the O5 and Morrison happened in 3 years, and then everything since in another 3.

Where's Life Six? Was she aborted or something?

I know right? Remember Secret Warriors where Doom became god? Or SHIELD where Doom became god? Or Ultimates where Doom became God? Or Ultimate Thor where Doom became god?

What, no? That never happened, and you’re full of shit? Truly, I am shocked, user. shocked.

Cassandra nova

Not to be a conspiracy theory guy but deliberately tanking the line with Rosenberg's incredibly bad run actively makes Hickman's run look good right out of the gate

2 years. And 2.5 years for post-Morrison. Since Hickman establishes a 5 month gap between Rosenshit and HoX #1.

it makes no sense, but such a nonsensical culling of characters always has a purpose, and Rosenberg quite clearly doesn't have the star power to kill off so many characters, not even if they're B-listers. Also the rest of the things I mentioned (Cyclops alive, Jean with him, basically a blank slate left at the end of the run with everyone that isn't interesting dead and everyone hating mutans again) stinks of mandate.

Hickman said X-Men canon made no sense and had a lot of contradictions on twitter and he got worked up about it too. So he is making something new and setting a new canon for X-Men. I'm guessing some of it will also be integrated to the MCU like his work with Thanos and Ebony Maw, Proxima, and the Black Order become part of the MCU

Nah. It's probably a result that Rosenberg worked for peanuts and Marvel not caring enough to maintain quality control and letting him do what he wanted within reasonable bounds, which resulted in a pile of shit.

Kitty was 15 when introduced and she's minimum 35 now and that's my favorite part. I have nothing else

yeah but the editorial hand is that what makes the killing off so bizarre. The ending was like missing the part where X Man brings everyone back to life or something like that

are we getting some sort of OMD then?

Cassandra was a mummandrai or some mystical mumbo jumbo, not biological

Kitty's meant to be late twenties, Cyke and his generation are the mid thirties ones

What do you mean?

>Hickman said X-Men canon made no sense and had a lot of contradictions
And Fantastic Four doesn't?

Some sort of soft retcon to clear up contradictions of the past

magical reset that realigns continuity

how powerful would a Homo Superiorer have to be to be superior to Franklin Richards?

in the x-mas special last year the Claremont Kitty story had he talk about wanting to run for president, so she's at least 35 in 2020

If you ever played Legacy of Kain, you know that this is a timeline fuckup that not even Moira can change or predict, since future actors who has a tight grip in time and space will always change it for their own or their masters agenda.

The '92 cartoon explained that, And bishop's future got worse since someone else changed it.
Same goes to Cable when he tried to Stop Apocalypse in the axis episode.

>it has been 5 years since the O5 became X-Men at age 16
>the O5 are in their mid-thirties
brilliant

>like his work with Thanos and Ebony Maw, Proxima, and the Black Order become part of the MCU
None of those were actually Hickman's idea though. The whole Thanos plot and the Black Order were an editorial mandate. I'm sure that Marvel was already anticipating that Thanos would need henchmen in videogames, cartoons and the upcoming movie, so they told Hickman to introduce some characters that others could use later.

It made sense before Hickman.

But Hickman really wanted to see Reed and Sue trusting his pet character, a child torturer, to raise their children, so now it doesn't make any sense.

Hickman created the Black Order and all its characters.

>had he talk about wanting to run for president
She was thinking about running for President IN THE FUTURE. Lots of politicians under 35 I'm sure are already thinking about plans for running for President.
It was Claremont making a reference to his X-Men: The end mini, which he considers to be his own personal canon future.

Nope FF had a lot of problems before Hickman took over. His FF sold a lot

Not really. he kinda flopped and rushed when it came time to resolve almost all of the cool ideas he was seeding for the series. Hickman can make cool ideas, but he has no good follow through.
Reed and Doom in the last issue was the main part he actually did good with when it came to closing off the threads he started.

By his own free will?

show dont tell you fucking faggot

we will probably get this with 11th life

>Reed and Doom in the last issue was the main part he actually did good
I disagree. I enjoyed the confrontation between Ultimate Reed and 616 Reed more

Do we take it that Charles DIDN'T out himself as a mutant early on in 616 because he and Moira decided it led to some of the bad parts in her previous lives? Since one of the past life pages shows he DID out himself.

The whole Varleria/Doom plot line predates Hickman

[citation needed]

fuck off Waid

Blob is on the cover even though he's not seen with the Brotherhood this issue, while Avalanche isn't on the cover even though he is in the actual issue.

Hickman made Doom an idiot, and repeatedly had him get BTFO, including at the very end of Secret Wars. Other writers wanked Doom much harder than Hickman ever did.

considering Moira reset universe with each death, both Mistique and Destiny lost about 40 years of their lives. That's dedication

>The whole Varleria/Doom plot line predates Hickman
It doesn't.

McDuffie's Sue was very clear on the fact that she would never trust Doom near her children. One run later, Sue was cool with a child torturer fascist that had just murdered Ant-Man's daughter to raise and educate her kids.

You think this is good writing?

I was talking about the resolutions more than the conflicts.
Eg.Thanos bringing up all of that hype in order to job within 3 seconds makes every page with Thanos seem pointless.
Maker getting BTFO was pretty funny. I should probably reread to see if Secret wars is less disappointing by now.
I'm having a bit of a problem being eloquent enough to convey what I mean. The end was a giant high stakes battle in which noone readying gave a shit about the stakes. Everyone was too busy laughing at the fights.

So...how about that time Magneto was super-pissed at Moira for manipulating him when he was reverted to a baby? Had that happened already in one of the past lives? IIRC, she was terrified of Magneto blaming her for that.

You know Millar came after McDuffie, right?

I don't get it. Is this scene "Year 17" or "Year 42"?

Can someone clear that up? Am I a brainlet?

Why do you need a citation for a question?

Isn't it kinda stupid that there's an arbitrary "oh the first 13 years your power doesn't actually work, because reasons" rule? By the fact that you retain your memories and consciousness at the point of rebirth it kinda implies you need that X-gene to be active in the womb already.

Everybody forgets that Valeria is actually the reincarnation of Valeria Von Doom, Doom and Sue's daughter from an alternate timeline.

You must have missed the storytimes then

You're the one accusing that it wasn't really Hickman's idea. I'm asking for hard proof.

not necessarily. You could say her retaining her memories is an effect of the X-Gene from her previous life.

I was in them. We didn't care about the fights so much as laughing at somebody getting BTFO.

the storytimes where everyone was shitting on it?

What am I forgetting about Moira's 'death'? Mystique killed her. It was Colossus who sacrificed himself to cure Legacy based on Moira's research.

It'd be frightening knowing that when you die, you're going to be resurrected knowing everything about your past life, knowing you're going to die again.

Moira was already dying to the Legacy virus.

I think a lot of comics writers desperately want to make a permanent mark on the books they write, hoping that what they do won't be undone by a later writer. This nearly always manifests itself by them going back and inserting contradictory things that weren't there before into the past. I don't see why they can't just make whatever changes they want from the point they start writing the book and move forward from that point. You can still do the "this changes everything" hype without shoehorning stuff in that doesn't add up with what we've seen all along. In fact it would be cleaner, and make more sense to do it that way. Xavier deciding to say "the hell with it" and give up on his dream of co-existence and just have the X-Men live apart from humanity could have easily happened without bring back Moira, a character who died 18 years ago and nobody has paid a thought to since, into a mutant with the bonus that Xavier knew all the horrible shit that would happen all along and let it happen anyway. (Which also makes little sense since as readers we are privy to the character's thoughts, and there was never anything to indicate Xavier had all this foreknowledge.)

Another one?

>editorial ever revealing their reasons for something
Not him, but if he really gave a fuck about the Black Order he would have had them be more prominent in Secret Wars. Instead, he just had Proxima and Corvus get off-screened by Apocalypse, I think. Jerome Opeña was the one that really appeared to love their designs, Hickman in the interviews was kinda like "eh, whatever". He also killed off Supergiant and Black Dwarf and had Terrax and Black Swan replace them, characters he actually used in Secret Wars.

How in the fuck did she hide her intentions from good ol' mind rapist chuck?

If Yea Forums shits on them it means its good

See this is where I put one foot out the door. She goes through all this bullshit and at some points the story implies there are times where her efforts help to unite the mutant population.

However, not once does she even try to organize a truce with a group like the Avengers who may be sympathetic to her plight. She actively fights against them. Hell, she even jumps straight to Magneto and ol' blue lips.

I get that she was radicalized at a point, but she's still smart. She still would've had to see the advantages of getting the X-Men and Avengers to cooperate.

The fact that after AvX and other books that at least try and fix the issue of how non-mutants heroes just seem like their fine with the constant attempts at mutant genocide; it just seems lazy to continue on that path for the sake of the story.

One must imagine Sisyphus happy

Little did Moira know that Sublime was the one really behind every iteration of the Sentinels.

I guess that makes Bendis' body of work some of the best comics ever written

Presumably, Xavier forgot about Moira until,she reintroduced herself in Year 42.

Which makes zero sense since they got engaged and almost married until Moira dumped him, and that’s not the sort of thing you forget.

>prominent in Secret Wars.
Why? Also, Hickman's OCs are always like this. He is not a characterfag which means he has no real attachment to any of them and constantly pushes them.

When are the Illuminati and Doom gonna show up and fix everything from behind the scenes, again?

Someone post that worst writers image. You know the one.

And what in Millar's run convinced Sue to change her mind?

Doom did 3 thinks is Millar's run: murdered the Watcher, murdered the Marquis of Death and murdered future Sue Storm. Which of those things convinced Sue that she should trust Doom to raise her children?

you mean Mad Thinker

Black Swan was prominent until the end of Secret Wars unlike the Black Order. Also the fuck he isn't a characterfag, he fucking loves Doom and Reed, and also has a boner for boy scout Cyclops, fuck's sake, he inserted him into Secret Wars even though he had absolutely no reason to do it and could have left every X-men to die in the incursions.

that worst writers image is outdated since it was made when everyone was parroting Linkara that Frank Miller sucks

>Telling Moira she actually has a limited amount of lives so that she doesn't go for the sweet release of death via a mutant cure.

If Moira just wants to break her reincarnation cycle, why wouldn't Moira just re-develop the cure just for herself from her memory at Oxford?

that is an absolutely fantastic page. look at the composition of the second panel.
brilliant.

>he fucking loves Doom
Is that why he made him go out like a bitch?

Destiny literally explains it, you dunce

having characters be shat on doesn't stop you from being a characterfag. Bendis was a huge Luke/Jessicafag and look how hard he shat on them all the fucking time.

Oh I wasn't even counting whatever shit Hickman is pulling, that's just how it was before this

Did he shit on them in a final boss event where he lost because of his insecurities?

Go away, Tommy

It's not really death if you are ressurected, it's more of a restart. If someone offered me ten chances at life i would gladly say yes. And unlike true immortality you are not destined to be prisoned on dying earth for million years after humanity fades away.

>the moment she tries to develop a mutant cure, she will appear on the brotherhood radar, intertwining her and Destiny's fate and allowing Destiny to pinpoint her and her future

Moira's lives - even the potentially millennias-long one - are just a blip in the billions of years each UNIVERSE/MUTIVERSE last for.

I never talked about omnipotency or apex of writing, I'm not him.

I like this run, but Hickman is a huge Doomfag. He wrote him as wrong in the end, but he rewarded his efforts by giving him a blank slate (that Bendis promptly shat upon, but whatever) and a new face. That was possibly the best he could give Doom in a world where the good guys always win in the end.

>losing because you're a manchild and morally/ethically stunted is a honorable end for the character
Hilarious.

The one that reinvented Joker, which was then ignored, even by Morrison just a few issues later?

>The phrase "ALL HOPE LIES IN DOOM" is in nearly all issues of his Fantastic Four
>Hickman's Doom is as strong as three Celestials, the villains that were supposed to be feared.
>Makes Doom omnipotent in his F4
>Makes Reed and Sue okay with Doom raising and educating their children
>Doom is also Rabum Anal, the deity of Hickman's Avengers/New Avengers
>Doom defeats the omnipotent Beyonders, when all Marvel heroes put together failed to do so
>An entire year of GOD EMPEROR DOOM crushing everything in his way
>Doom only "loses" because he said something that Molecule Man listened, otherwise there would be no way to stop him
>His "defeat" is basically him having his face restored nnd being considered a hero now, the new and better Iron Man
Wow, Hickman sure hates the guu.

yes? holy shit, he accepted at the end that "everything lives" and laughed at how foolish he had been, he was granted a blank slate and a new face.

How the fuck do you read secret wars and your take away is "hurr durr, he lost his omnipotency, that means Hickman hates him!" instead of reading the actual final page.

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Again answer the question. How is losing the final battle because you are a manchild a better end than giving an actual battle? How is admitting you suck a respectful thing to do for a character? He literally lost because he had mental and emotional damage.

But she could literally recreate it in secret without having to ever publicize it, which is what drew attention to her in the first place. It is fucking ridiculous Destiny somehow would always immediately know if she creates the cure, but will never warn/stop Moira about all the stupid shit Moira does in every other life that leads to mutantkind being eradicated. By this logic if she can always see the empty space around Moira why the fuck doesn't she ever try to kill Moira outside of this one specif cycle or say "no, this doesn't work, I have seen it"? Or here's even a better question: why does Moira not consult Destiny to see which path has the best survival rate? Destiny will not die until years after the X-men are formed. All Moira needed was one life to figure out who Destiny is and then seek her out at afe 13 when she runs away from home. This whole concept is nonsensical and more holes the minute you start thinking about it.

It also begs the question: did the mutantkind not get eradicated when she just had a normal first life? She's a mutant, so her children might have been mutants too. After all, in another life she gives birt to Proteus.

This whole idea is a pandora's box of more questions.

because you're missing the entire last note of the story, the note where Doom matures as a character, where Reed recognizes that growth, the fact that for once he admitted that he could have done better, but didn't out of fear, and so Reed rewards him by fixing his face and giving him his life back instead of doing something else, like, erasing him or changing his entire life so he never grew up to be Doom.

So Doom becomes Reed's bitch and becomes submissive towards him. Amazing villain end. Wow

There's a What If? issue where that happens. It's a Mgneto issue, and I think the 'homo more superior' was Quicksilver's daughter, Luna.

once again, user, Destiny is a big character in this story. Hickman just wouldn't introduce her as basically the reason Moira starts to try and truly fix the mutant-human problem and just be done with it.

Expect for timeline 6 and the remaining story of timeline 10 to involve Destiny in some capacity. Hickman is not dumb, he knows your point, and timeline 6 is probably about Moira realizing that too.

Destiny had her set on fire. I don't think she wants anything to do with her at any point.

So Proteus was only born in Moira's tenth life, which means she probably didn't know that he'd become an omega-level lunatic body snatcher.

villains always lose in fiction. That's the best "book-ends" fate that a villain can ever get in the big 2 comics. Or what, would you think he would have rather had Doom win and then someone else other than Richards defeat him and humilliate him, without him learning something about it?

Aww, Anole had a cute Kirby-radiation boyfriend in that timeline, too.

X^3 = 1000, not a hundred.

It's not about losing. It's about losing in the most bitchy way possible. But please continue to push the narrative of how awesome and great the way Doom went out.

yeah, sorry, X^2 then

It's partly manipulation. Moira is curious enough to want to test things out, so she won't immediately suicide, but after she does get BTFO by sentinels (did Destiny sick them on her or something? They didn't attack her at all in the first loop) her focus changes.

It’s like you didn’t even read the issue. Why do you fake fans even come into these threads?

Nah, Kitty's early to mid twenties.

Destiny is fucking based and redpilled, I wish she was still alive, she is much better than crazy serial betrayer Mystique.
In fact Mystique only behaved like a completely rational terrorist with Destiny alive.

>It's not about losing. It's about losing in the most bitchy way possible.
What "bitchy" way was that?

Doom spent 8 years fucking Reed's wife, she never felt the need to cuck him the way she cucks Reed. Reed had no way whatsoever to defeat Doom, the man that defeated an army of omnipotent beings. Reed was LUCKY that Doom decided to go on a rant about how Reed is awesome and even LUCKIER that Molecule Man heard it.

After several failures and brutal deaths? She's supposed to be hardass radical who allies with Magneto abd Apocalypse, yet is too scared of Destiny?

Man Sentinels are based as fuck.

Oh shit, wait. If this is her 10th lifetime and she's already older than 13, she's definitely gonna get an 11th life.

>Doom spent 8 years fucking Reed's wife
Never happened. Ult universe doesn't count
> Reed had no way whatsoever to defeat Doom, the man that defeated an army of omnipotent beings
Because of MM powers, not due to his own doing.
>. Reed was LUCKY that Doom decided to go on a rant about how Reed is awesome and even LUCKIER that Molecule Man heard it.
He lost because he was a manchild

The bitchy part was that he submitted to Reed instead of going out with no prisoner's taken

>reading this shit
The experience RADICALIZED me.

She might be. With Hickman fucking with continuity plus Xavier resurrecting dead muties, she might be alive now.

>Moria

Only a mere fucking baby but entire galaxies fall to them in seconds.

>Reed does what Reed would do because he's a good person
>this somehow means Hickman is a Doomfag

Doom has never been like that, what you're suggesting is character assasination akin to how Waid and Allred treat their Doom.

Doom would never kill off everyone in the universe just to spite fucking Richards. He only made the incursions happen to have a chance to salvage something against the Beyonders.

That's multiple lifetimes later. There are hundreds of other mutants she could bother about the future who haven't had her set on fire.
Destiny is far better at it than most, but she's also clearly now a psychotic bitch who caused days of future past. If an analogue of that (or Rogue in general) happened due to Destiny, then Moira would know that Destiny's predictions aren't always a "good" thing.

And frankly, what's the goddamn point of Moira in any of these scenarios with Destiny when Destiny could get off her wrinkly ass and set things up herself.

>Reed
>good
someone post that panel about Reed having cures for everything and whatever shit that could change the entire world but never releasing them.

Don't move goalposts. Go back to discussing how "awesome" the way Doom went out was

As opposed to knowing you only get about 80 years, knowing that's your lot?

>move goalposts
>says that an appropiate way to lose for Doom would be for him to go "fuck it if I can't have it then no one else can"
you were the one that mentioned that bullshit, I'm only following up on it.

Maybe. Maybe not. Destiny says she’ll get a 10th, if she makes the right choice at the end. Which is definitely going to come into play.

So it’s possible for her to die post X-gene activation due to some shenanigans. Maybe the X-gene suppression tech or power negation stops her from resetting. Or some shit.

Also, Destiny’s words imply that life 11 is still her final life even if she survives 10. So she’s either going to be killed as a child in 11 or some power negation shit is going to prevent her from resetting.

Doom having an inferiority complex about Richards is one of his core character traits

Heat death of the universe is the real threat and you'd be able to travel to another dimension by then. The other threat is time (actually a finite resource according to physics) literally running out but that's a threat to everyone and we'd never be able to tell unless the immortality makes you immune to time stop.

get an 11th, not 10th

The appropriate end would be to have a grand final battle where Doom only loses after Reed get badly injured and Doom kills a bunch of major characters in the process. Instead we get a manchild ending where Doom submit to Reed and how much Reed is better than him and losing because of his insecurities.

I suppose it's possible that Xavier keeps the main outline of their overall plan, but makes himself forget about Moira's past lives for...reasons?

that's a perfectly appropriate ending for Doom, though.`

yes, he definitely hates Richards because he's better than him, but the way he tries to surpass him always involves being a "better man" than him, not kicking away the entire board. Secret Wars was always about Doom thinking he could do better than Reed by actually salvaging something, versus Reed building a bomb, never using it and then not bothering to do something else.

No no, we're in Life 10 right now and she's older than 13, she definitely made the right choice already because she's definitely gonna get an 11th at this point.

So Hickman is not a doomfag. Glad we sorted this out.

>Yes, mother?
Do Pyro and or Destiny had an incestual relationship? Also, that wasn't slowly.

No, that doesn’t work. The Xavier/Moira scene where she has him read her mind is X0, 10 years before the present. Which marks it at Year 42, not year 17. X0 being Year 17 fucks with the whole powers of 10 thing Hickman is doing.

>not a Doomfag because he doesn't write what I think what I think would be an appropiate end for Doom if I was a Doomfag
user, if this is your entire argument it's retarded. Hickman doesn't break toys.

>Doom is so awesome that heroes want him to raise their children, he is stronger than Beyonders and Celestials due to how awesome he is, the only way he can possibly be defeated is through hubris
>I am not a Doomfag, though

Yeah, but if Moira made ONE dose of cure and kept no records of how it was made, why the fuck would Destiny and Mystique care?

So Hickman is just following the canon that was written before him and even made Doom go out way worse than Waid ever did. Make up your damn mind.

Typo. I meant she’ll get an 11th.

Destiny clearly says she’ll maybe get an 11th life, if she makes the right choice at the end. Meaning the end of her 10th life.

Making her reincarnations be limited is kinda dumb plot device to give the final timeline importance, when you think about it. It would have been far more interesting if in life two Destiny basically tracks Moira down and gives her an ultimatum: because Moira's ability gives mutantkind unlimited opportunity to find a way to evade genocide, going forward Destiny will be orchestrating Moira's death in every life where Moira will not try to to achieve that utopian future for mutantkind, i.e. Moira will literally be stuck groundhogs daying until she finally discovers a way to push mutantkind on a path where they do not go extinct, and only then will Destiny allow her to develop the cure for herself and give her permanent rest from the cycle of rebirth.

That way you could argue that all the tragedies and deaths along the way okay to Moira because she's been repeating this shit so many times that she's Tom Cruise a la Edge of Tomorrow and has basically memorized how every little change works out and how it plays to the grand scheme of things and this current timeline has been the most successful one so far.

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>Doom has the same intepretation than Waid did
nowhere did I ever say that, stop strawmanning and acknowledge that the only reason you think that Doom is not Hickman's pet character is because you think that "pet character = he must always win or lose in the most epic, explosion-filled and crazy way possible".

>You're... gay?

>Charles, you're gay

Kek

What is worse? Tommy shitting up x-men threads with comics have nothing to do with Doom or the Anti-'Hackman' fag with lack of reading comprehension.

I just proved that Hickman is not a characterfag because he is following what was set before him. You also tried to say the end for Doom was great when it was humiliating. You got completely btfo'd

This. Telepaths are portraid as barely able to ignore the thoughts of others sometimes. A stretch he didnt notice her ground hog day shit. Especially since it must be on her mind constantly.

>Charles, we're both gay.

And the last panel is Moira taking off the wig and she looks exactly like Xavier.

The worse is Hickmanfags and their endless praise for anything Hickman.

Now you guys are praising the smart design and amazing prose of pages like this

user... you're gay.

Tommy is the one who is shitting up this thread in a thread that has literally nothing to do with Doom just because it's written by Hickman.

>what is worse?
You left out option 3.

Tommy being an anti-Hickman fag with no reading comprehension shitting up the X-men thread with comics having nothing to with Doom.

Tommy is not anti-Hickman fag. He is Anti-Doom fag.

Again. Option 3 is that he’s both. And that is worse than one or the other.

Why are there so many dumb anons that constantly need shit spelled out for them. Sheesh.

He is not anti-Hickman though. Anti-Hickman would be criticizing all his works and going into detail why his writing sucks like that other autist. Tommy is just autistic about Doom which is even more pathetic.

Hickman you madman.

How is Destiny able to detect Moira out of the blue, when it's implied that she first had to be looking for her and realize she can't see her? The way Moira even attracts Destiny's attention in the first place is Moira being a nobel prize winning scientist that discovers a way to cure being mutant. Not before she ever actually makes the cure. Destiny couldn't even prevent the other such cures from being made, so how is Moira the big exception?

Tommy is not the only Hackmanfag

Also, I love the story, but I acknowledge that Hickman likes Doom, I didn't want to derail the thread. I like Doom too anyway, but I like the interpretation of him being held back by hubris. Not every user that likes the way he lost is Tommy.

Tommy always uses "omnipotence", posts that one panel, or "apex of writing".

Tommy doesn't give a shit about Hickman's works that don't contain Doom. How is he anti-Hickman when he is just autistic about one character?

Oooh sorry, I gotcha.
Yeah, she could still get hit with her own X-Gene cure from a past life, she should still know how to make it. Although if she was going to; Destiny, Mystique, and Pyro would've showed up by now and we saw Mystique, Toad, and Sabertooth doing espionage shit for Magneto/Xavier already.

do you remember how Destiny powers work? the most likely a future is to come, the easier for Destiny to predict how such future comes to be.

Moira being such a big factor while trying to change the future in a way that would threaten mutants immediately would pop up on Destiny's radar instead of whatever else would happen - like Sentinels still raising despite killing off the entirety of the Trask family like Moira did.

There's at least one timeline where the sentinels dress up like Avengers

But Destiny has time and time again previously been proven to be fallible. For fucks sake, she completely failed to foresee the likelihood of Days of the Future Past timeline being created when she along with Mystique tried to kill Senator Kelly.

The only way it works is if Hickman makes her a keikaku master beyond the grave, and that implies Destiny was able to somehow see and manipulate everything several time loops from the past, which woukd be another giabt retcon just to make the story work.

Well, her life is a tomb.

If she gets an 11th life that implies she succeeds in her own estimation I think. So whatever she thinks is success she gets. If that is true then I expect she has had enough. She will find a way to suppress her powers when she dies so that she keeps the timeline as it last is and finally gets death. As in shell be ok with finally passing on and purposely make block the reset.

that's how it is for MOST villains, though. If the villains aren't somehow superior to the heroes, there's no conflict.

Tommy is anti-Hickman because he believes Hickman is a Doomfag

>Tommy doesn't give a shit about Hickman's works that don't contain Doom
and yet here he is

Well, we’ve seen a number of cures made in the past. And like I said, there’s the X-gene/power negation tech that pops up every now and then.

Wait. Moira died BEFORE Morrison Xmen Started.

What?

Also all of Marvel between 2019 and 2001 taking place within 3 years is crazy.

She probably needs specialized resources to make and synthesize it that would be noticed.
She starts to make it and some lucky/unlucky bastard figures out she was making something before reverse engineering the basic idea from the equipment she bought.
Destiny's power is weird since the power itself isn't fallible, it's her interpretation of it that is. She saw that assassinating senator Kelly would make things better but couldn't change her behavior based on the timeline.
Eg
1) Destiny sees that she has to kill Kelly.
2)DOFP happens
3)Destiny still has to try to kill Kelly to properly make the end result happen.
Any changes in behavior she has in step 3 would be reflected in step one so she HAS to still act the same in order to get to step 3 and vice versa.

Less crazy than 1963 to 2001 in under 2 years.

Thats the problem when writing other creators characters and storylines for the big 2. You slowly contradict characters past actions when establishing something new unless theirs enough to fill in the blanks.

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>that's how it is for MOST villains, though.
Most villains are not trusted by the heroes to raise their children due to how awesome they are.

This chart was meaningless.

Not only did most of the twam do nothing in the series but the arrangement of tjr chart meant nothing.

The "subteams" didnt pan out and thr big circles at the top and bottom had no signficance

I just realized, Legion is now less than 5 years old. Since Xavier leaves Gabrielle Haller after the Magneto split, and neither of them know she’s pregnant at the time.

This new timeline just fucks with so much of continuity it’s mind-boggling. Like, this is far worse than n52.

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The continuity being wonky is on purpose. It's not an oversight but a plot point.

I think the fact that Nimrod the greater switch to mutants means that the generations of robots do eventually turn on their predecessors.

Yeah,the only way I can reconcile this is if there’s some time fuckery going on as part of Xavier and Moira’s plan.

She trained in the past as an assassin? She knows about all kinds of enemies they can come up against because of past life experience?

I think the problem kicks in when Robots inevitably start making better robots kicking off the sentinel singularity.

>and synthesize it that would be noticed.

If she can have her own isolated Muir island facility in the middle of nowhere doing research in other lifes without raising eyebrows, I don't see how making a cure with special chemicals would make anyone pay any extra attention on just what exactly she's cooking in her lab.

You mean the facility where Mystique tried to kill her a few times if i vaguely recall things right?
I bet half the reason for those visits has now been retconned into giving implied threats to Moira about synthesizing a cure.

Who charted?

That brings up a potentially interesting point. So we know that Destiny knows about Moira. Does the current Mystique? If Destiny has seen Moira’s plan for this timeline, and passed that knowledge on to Mystique, then it recontextualizes her past actions. Like, how much of her incessant backstabbing was her being a giant cunt, and how much was Destiny’s instructions.

You know what's really fucking retarded about this whole thing?

Hickman is expecting us to believe that Destiny is so good at pulling off alternate timeline keikakus that she can keep tabs on Moira and prevent her from doing shit because "she'll always know."

This is Destiny.

Destiny.

99% of the time she's fucking useless. When has her bony ass ever contributed significantly to solving a serious problem? She couldn't even call out assassinating Robert Kelly as being a bad idea.

She's so shit as a precog that people act like she didn't exist in Civil War II and that precogs were a new thing entirely.

And yet Moira, who is so desperate to not lose to robot cock that she's willing to suck off Apocalypse, is afraid of her?

Fuck off Hackman and Hackman apologists.

Why even bother cloning her in the first place? She's not a useful combatant.

To see what happens if the clone dies first.

>Destiny has seen Moira fail to stop the robot apocalypse 9 times and likely other alternate timeline bullshit as well
>Destiny is fucking useless

Hey Destiny, where was your awesome precog during ANY GLOBAL THREAT EVER?