She was 14, with no military experience at all...

There was nowhere else to go. The entire kingdom had been occupied by enemy forces by that time. It was either turn traitor and live another day or go down with the city. They had no way of knowing at the time that Azula was so mentally unstable and would turn on them during a sudden psychotic episode, so with the knowledge they had they made the right choice from a purely cynical utilitarian POV. If anything I think Azula overestimated how big of a role her personal charisma and cunning played in swaying them to her side. They were probably hoping for an opportunity to abandon ship before she showed up, and they only needed her to prove she was at least sort of competent to come to the conclusion that she was their best way out.

It only failed because the avatar stopped it. They were fucked on their own

They already got their ass beat by the Avatar, if they try to take control over Ba Sing Se or try and prevent the king from helping the war effort than they're going to get slapped and that time the Avatar won't let them get back up.

>with no military experience at all.

The fuck are you on about? Her entire childhood was basically boot camp.

The whole show is pretty unrealistic. You expect me to believe that a cast of middle school age kids can bet adults in combat.

the raid on the Ba Sing Se inner palace was really badass, but it was also pretty eyeopening too realizing how much more competent these little kids are than this entire army of earthbenders who have all been living for probably decades longer than our heroes. not that I'm already used to this from other shonen-esque stories but y'know.

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It why trying to adept these shows into live action is pretty garbage idea.

The current Emperor was weak and Long Feng was decisively beaten by her.

So far as they were concerned, the long-term prospects for a strong Earth Kingdom with her as Empress even as an outsider.

Of course, if they'd have known what a genocidal whackjob Ozai was, they never would have went along with it in the first place.

The dai li fucked up Aang until he went into the avatar state. Did you even watch this show or are you just shitposting

What are you talking about, their big clash episode Lake Laogai was 100% a Team Avatar victory. They had his bison and led him into an ambush, an extreme advantage and how did that day end? The Earth King learning about the war. They were forced to destroy their own facility and lock their leader away. Aang never even was tempted to use the Avatar State despite having to face down the Ba Sing Se army. The Crossroads of Destiny would not have ended so well if someone wasn't packing a gun- I mean lightning bending.

Aang being the avatar makes sense, and honestly with Toph learning from the original benders (I can't remember if Korra changed this) I can give her a pass for being so good. Katara is the one that feels like bullshit. Soka performs at expectation honestly.

katara was a prodigy too, she just didnt have any access to other benders until aang showed up and she could leave the south pole. sokka was trained by his father, the chief, and took the role as the new "chief" of the water tribe (he was training little boys in the first episodes) so it makes sense for him to be a good strategist and warrior.

Why is Zuko so shit? He has the genes, the trainiig, and the determination yet he gets mogged more than any characters (not including comedic relief like Sokka)

Because he becomes a million times more competent while masked.

Because Zuko is good at a lot of things that aren't firebending. Problem is, he's a fire bender.

You're all forgetting that by the time Azula had shown up, Long Feng had already led them to humiliating defeat against a bunch of kids.

Nothing like seeing your boss get his ass whupped by a kid to make you think that maybe he might be a less qualified leader than a different scarier kid.

>she was 14

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I know she was, it just sounds like shit that a teenager can beat adults after less than a year of training or keep up with the other prodigies that have to use their skills ever waking moment, or the avatar.
Obviously I'm willing to accept their answer, she's just the hardest to believe.

He's good with swords, I think he schools Sokka at some point but I can't remember.

Waitaminute. How does Toph know when airborne projectiles are going to hit her?

>He's good with swords, I think he schools Sokka at some point but I can't remember

Man, what's the point of Sokka? You'd think his swordsmanship would be something he's the best at.

I thought she didn't? That's why Aang owns her at the ring

She's probably predicting them based off of the movements of the soldiers. She knows earthbending inside and out and understands exactly how each movement translates into bending. She can't handle fighting Aang or the giant bees because they're entirely airborne and thus can't be predicted based on their movements on the ground.

Then how the fuck does Gaara lose to her?

because they are made of earth and she is an earthbender

Watch the webm again, Toph is stopping multiple projectiles being thrown from different directions

Best way of wiggling out of this

isn't gaara covered in sand and thus bits of earth?she can sense that i think?

Because she fucks her brother every day she can

Also Aang is a master of a bending discipline that hasn't existed for 100 years, fucking nobody alive has got anti-airbender tech since most of the time they've just fighting firebenders. And Toph is using a specialized version of earthbending that can see basically everything going on on the ground within a hundred feet of her and has spent the past several years using that specialized style specifically to fuck up other earthbenders who use the standard style

Why does she get fucked by Aang then?

He honestly helped them stay on track and is usually seems to be the social catalyst to them meeting a lot of the important people in the story. I think he also has leadership skills later on and is clearly a good tactician since he helped make submarines.

I just splurted out my drink, why did this stupid ass "LE RANDOM XDDD" joke make me laugh so hard?

Because she wants Twinkletoes to make her curl her toes

Blind masters don't have to explain shit.

Because the writers thought it was an interesting gimmick for that fight, but didn't keep it in mind during every random action scene

well how does Toph do this

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There’s nothing funny about the intense vagina rape Azula subjects Zuko to every time she sees him, especially not the time she dressed up as Mai and ripped the mask off as he was cumming while screaming “IT WAS ME THE WHOLE TIME, ZUZU”

I seriously doubt they didn't know everything about the fire princess, long time child prodigy and one of the most powerful benders alive. You have to take into account in these stories kids are usually better than adults and nobody bats and eye. Zuko is the only one who acts like an actual child early on and gets shit on for it. While for example Azula acts like a seasoned veteran both in fighting and politics.

Zuko and Azula could have a loving wholesome ending but something like this would be even better. Azula eternally tormenting Zuko.

I'm starting to think you're not joking

Absolutely nothing funny

Are you aware that they are related?

Yes, which only makes it worse
The horrible, disgusting things she does to her own brother is truly reprehensible.

>she was 14
Clearly irrelevant in the Avatar universe like it likely would have been in real life at a similar time period, her royalty supersedes her age
>no military experience
Just obviously untrue she's a trained assassin who works with the confidence of someone who has run countless operations and likely studied at the best military schools in the world. She's also seen commanding fire nation troops
>why would the Dai Li side with the princess of their longtime enemy
Because the writing is on the wall for a full scale invasion and the Dai Li likely know the comet thing is true. As the princess Azula can actually deliver whatever political promises she makes. Plus she gave that badass speech and fucked up Lao Feng

>How could the writers expect us to believe that the Dai li would prefer her over the general?
becouse the writers had no idea how to progress the plot otherwise

let's be honest here there is nothing better than curing your sister through wholesome dicking and handholding

It's canon she can sense earth. Airborne or not, that's how she discovered metalbending

in universe two things:
1 - Iroh doesn't actually teach Zuko anything probably because he is a head of world wide conspiracy to crush the fire nation with no survivors ( that's why Zuko is ethernaly "not ready yet" ) or he is simply content with having his dream retirement with a replecament for his dead son
2 - he not only does not have enough resources but most importantly doesn't really want to kidnap a child or hurt people that did really nothing wrong to him

of course real life reasons are important as well such as the fact that this is the first antagonist in a show that is not very mature in the first season so he can't succeed or else there would not be plot and also judging by the fate of other characters and authors other works being male but not in old methor group puts Zuko in problematic punching bag cathegory

>It's canon she can sense earth. Airborne or not
then why did she needed to touch metal to bend it?

At first she couldnt see shit in the metal cage, but when she focused, she could feel the earth impurities inside it. It's as someone else said the same during the shuffle game. She can 'sense' the pebble, even though the table it was on was made from wood. And how she could block the dozens of stones being thrown at her during the palace raid

It failed with the intervention of Kung Fu Action Jesus.

Because Aang isnt made of earth. She only perceives earth. For other things she needs seismic sense, which he negated.

Because it was difficult. Over years she became adept enough to bend it remotely like earth.

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I disregard the given ages for these characters because it makes the story Abit more realistic. Azula acts like she's about 18 so it's not too be hard.
>Azula 18
>Zuko 16 (he always acts like the youngest sibling
>Aang 12 (aang acts like he's 8. Can't age him up)
>Katara 14
>Sokka 16
>Toph 13

>Azula acts like she's about 18 so it's not too be hard.
>Azula 18
>Zuko 16 (he always acts like the youngest sibling
Azula acts like a child soldier not lika an 18 yo and Zuko acts like a boy rised by an overbearing mother

Azula acts like a child soldier of her age, someone whose childhood ended prematurely or wasn't there at all, and not even just some soldier but one drilled for officer duty, a field commander burdened with responsibilities of an adult. She is also possibly a psychopath, and a highly intelligent individual. A typical teenager she is not.

It's impossible for her to be 14 and doing the things she does in series.

Which are?

Why don't they just shoot the biggest thing right behind them?

The Secretariat was a politician.

She can't sense sand. That's why she's blind in the desert.

>no Azula sister
>no Azula gf
>no Azula wife
>no Azula sister gf
>no Azula sister wife
>no Azula

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Nobody can actually see airbending, mate. This how Toph got BTFO.

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What?
She's the fucking daughter of the fucking country's leader and is a psychopath.
She's probably been studying battle tactics since she could read and of course given the best tutors in the fire nation.
This is a country that has been at war for 100 years. Azula has probably been in war rooms since she was 10.

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all of which makes her a perfect hostage

The Dai Li were essentially the Praetorian Guard. Despite claiming to be an elite fighting force the moment they faced opposition from a Legion that was filled with battle hardened vets they would fold most of the time.

I want her to make my a dick a hostage inside of her vagina.

Sound?

Aang can be very light on his feet (Toph notes this several times during the series) and hardly produces any vibrations at all. Also she expected to fight another earthbender in the ring, surprise airbending threw her off completely. She learns how to deal with Aang as the series goes on.

She got way better by the end of the series, enough to make highly detailed sand sculptures with a stomp.

>with no military experience at all
Noblemen are trained from childhood in all manners of strategy, logistics and military history. Azula was probably an apt pupil and took in her lessons in warfare well.

>inb4 you can't teach war
Lololol ok sure I guess every military academy thats ever existed in the last 2000 years was just a huge waste of time and all those philosophers who wrote volumes and volumes on the subject of organized antagonism were just morons.

>She's probably been studying battle tactics since she could read
This is canon, in Zuko Alone Ozai asks his kids a question about some military campaign and while Zuko struggled to answer Azula recalled the whole thing perfectly.
She definitely has military experience and likely holds a high rank in the army.

I like this little detail. Zuko feels that it's his birthright to be the Fire Lord, but Azula goes out of her way to practice and study to be the best.

She can hear/feel the rustle of his sleeve, the clatter of the stone and the impact of the shell that causes the stone to eject into the sleeve.

>14
Yeah?

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after all he was suppoused to sit on a high chair and she was suppoused to be a usefull tool for a fire lord

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That smug grin and those eyes are the best.

>She was 14
So was Alexander when he began his conquests
>with no military experience at all.
She had led the fire nation navy for years at that point and had led the attack against the walls.
>How could the writers expect us to believe that the Dai li would prefer her over the general?
Because it was obvious the Fire Nation would succeed in penetrating the walls sooner or later, The rest of the Earth Kingdom had already fallen to them and Ba sing se was alone, Long Feng's tactic of just ignoring the war was suicide so it was better to join the winning side early and be rewarded for their treachery than go down with the sinking ship.

She just senses the stone's presense and position. It's earth, she perceives earth directly without any medium. She can jumps from a flying bison and bend a ramp in the air to land safely for example.

Philip of Macedonia left Alexander in charge at 16. Some dipshits rebelled, and Alexander annihilated them and built a new city on their lands. His father had become King at 18.
Joan of arc was 16 when she started fighting.
Okita Souji started taking dojos at 12 before becoming a "sword saint" and an unquestioned master of everything sword by 18.

But really, Phillip and Alexander should be enough for you.

Zuko's actually incredible. When you see him against anything but a once in a lifetime prodigy or the Avatar, he does great. And against a once in a lifetime (or many lifetimes, in the case of Toph) prodigy he's still a threat.
He shows just how ridiculous the talent is at this time in history. It's like the bending equivalent of the 1900s and electricity.

She's not blind, though. It's "blurry"

Still no standalone story for Azula.

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You're gonna say that when Katara and Toph became bending masters while still teenagers?

Shah Ismail was crowned at 14. AFTER he lead a army against several statelets that outnumbered his forces. He then proceeded to campaign for a few more years to expand his territory.

be happy they didn't ruin her like Sokka

When was Sokka ruined?

in korra

>She was 14
That's all we needed to know

>Everyone guesses wrong because the dealer moves the rock at the last minute. But I can feel it with my earthbending.

He wasnt ruined, he just died at some point before the events of the series. They were all old, even if he was around he would at most make a cameo. Better not to have anything than see him in a miserable state.

She made deals with them, while she was imprisoned.

Why did all of her friends, her father, brother and practially everyone betray her?

Her father only cares about himself
Her mother chose her son over her royal life and left a bad impression on Azula
Her brother chose being a good person over his family
Her friends went against her because they chose love over being afraid of her (Mai) or were just afraid of her and saw a way out (Ty Lee)
She can’t interact with people outside of manipulating them or fighting them. So all the relationships she’s built up are based on her trying to dominate the other person through fear and manipulation or being herself manipulated out of a desire for approval

She tried to murder her brother, that was a step too far for Mai, and trying to kill Mai was a step too far for Ty Lee

thats no excuse, they should have stayed loyal

She is not intimidating or manipulating Zirin and co.

t. Azula

should Mai have just let Zuko fall into a boiling lake, Azula would probably be gleeful in the moment at her brother's demise until he joins his mother in the mirrors reflection

Both of them followed her only because they were afraid of what she'd do if they didn't.

>putting your personal feelings above winning the war for the fire nation and bringing balance to the world
azula was the only sane person on the show, everyone else was pretentious as hell and acted like their destiny was set for them and they had a greater purpose or some other shit like thatt

if they had a spine they would have rejected her instead of cucking out

she should have

The penultimo redpill is realizing that Avatar is actually very poorly written when it comes to things like politics and intrigue and its mostly just adult minds inserted into preteen's bodies making fantastical changes to the world that those dumb grown ups never even thought of. Part of the reason why its one of the most popular subjects at FFN, because it requires no logic or prose to write for yet has press a button receieve a food pellet levels of skinner box gratification.

Azula is literally insane and the Fire Nation has no right to bring “balance” (read: subjugation, genocide, and enslavement) to the rest of the world

Azula was a twisted person worsened by growing up in a toxic environment

get back to fucking cats scrapper

Azula obviously intimidated Ty Lee into joining, but Mai seemed to join because she was bored. It did seem like Ty Lee had genuine respect for Azula too and Azula actually had affection for them even if her hyper-autism made it hard to show. But it's easy to see why Mai would choose Zuko's life over loyalty and why Ty Lee chose Mai over Azula.

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>if they had a spine they would have rejected her instead of cucking out
It's called survival instinct, user

azula is perfectly sane
>muh right
the avatar has no right to bring his Balance™ to the world either, all he ever did was create the problem just so that he could fix it later and gain faux support from people he put indanger
>azula was twisted
lol
>toxic environment
you mean being the most well off woman in the entire firenation safe from any danger, is royalty AND has mastered her bending skills at a young age? the only thing wrong about her childhood was that her mother didnt like her

get bent nerd

>survival instinct
its called pussying out and only being able to stand up for yourself when everyone else is doing it at the exact same time

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oh boy

t. Didn’t watch the series

literally just rewatched the entire show a few days ago, you just hate strong women and hate the fire nation for no reason

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She is literally, canonically, insane

Just admit you hate japan already

from abstinence

Get the fuck out of my waifu’s thread before I scalp you

You call MY wife insane and you have the audacity to tell us to leave?

She is insane you secondary
She hallucinates her mother in mirrors and loses her goddamn mind in the finale
In the tie in comics afterwards she’s literally in a motherfucking straight jacket looking hot as hell
I want to crush your goddamn face in like a rotten pumpkin for being such a retard and chop up what’s left of you in my fucking bathtub
Leave

>lashing out because everyone you ever knew betrayed you all at the same time makes you some insane nutjob
yeah, nice one armchair psychiatrist
>she's in a straight jacket
yeah, because she's a firebender that can bend LIGHTNING, if she cant move her arms then she cant bend

I am no longer reading any of your posts
I hope you die in a little painful way very soon, or at least get badly injured to the point you can’t do the things you enjoy

you have to think abou it in the time ad culture context,she was like alexander,healso was pretty young whne he was conquering the damn world

take your meds loser

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What if user was her brother?

Azula only loves Zuzu

would take over the world with her

this show already had one redemption arc
hell, she legitimately killed the MC/Jesus figure (even if he got better). why should she be redeemed?

her killing the avatar is the redemption arc you uncultured nigger

even if she was a prodigy, she apparently mastered her bending art in like 3 months, max
that goes beyond prodigy, that's straight up mary sue levels

Zuko's not really shit, as much as he's just a competent firebender. Iroh taught him more advanced firebending, but he's still just a normal-sized fish swimming in a pond with bigger fish

he explains this all when he has aang kidnapped. he had to struggle, and it's what made him strong, and it's part of what i like about his character

>Iroh taught him more advanced firebending
things that never happened

dont forget learing bloodbending in 1 night, even though she wasnt taught it at all and never used it again throughout the series even though it would have helped out alot

dude got like a couple of week's worth of training with a sword in his lifetime
Zuko not only got training (probably more than him) from the same master, but also had years to continue and refine his skills

because Death Battle is retarded

you have to get earth from the earth, which she can sense
Aang could almost go without touching the ground for long stretches of time, making him the natural enemy of her main ability. he doesn't have to pull ammo off the ground to blast you with air, etc

if she went up against a competent firebender who could use the firebending jet-propulsion for longer stretches, the outcome would probably be the same

>lightning redirection
>fire breathing

I'm pretty sure Iroh was Zuko's main firebending teacher for the entirety of his banishment

Because my dick

I need that pic of her in irons

>and never used it again throughout the series
She subdued a ship captain when Zuko was helping her search for her mother.

>literally the first episode
>teach me the advanced set
>alright, just let me finish my duck

Did they ever outright state that Iroh decided to accompany his nephew on his banishment voluntarily? Was the shipcrew that went with them there by Iroh's orders? It always seemed odd to me that Zuko was given a ship and a crew despiste being banished.

user do you also wait for the phone to ring after your job meeting ended with "we will call you" and then act surprised when it never happens?
because the point of this scene is to illustrate that Zuko gets no training that he arguably needs - which is later contrasted with Azula being trained to the bone with "almost perfect is not good enough" as her motto

Iroh kep Zuko doing cardio and showed him how to harness lightning but not in a way that could hurt the avatar - it's like you people forget that he was the Grand Lotus leading world wide conspiracy to topple the fire nation teaching Zuko how to become more powerfull was the last thing on his to do list

old dragon wasn't just some token mentor character teaching "our heroe" a new skill each time he levels up he was a man on a mission and had his own goals in life, even if he let his feelings for his nephew get in the way from time to time

I can't remember if it was ever explicitly stated either way, but Iroh going voluntarily is probably the safe choice. He wasn't the one banished, it had nothing to do with him, and he felt great empathy towards Zuko. A ship and small crew isn't a whole lot, he needed it to do his official mission: find the Avatar even if that was probably just an excuse for Zuko to leave the Fire Nation and never return.

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I wonder if the crew had also pissed someone important off or something to be sent on a goose chase like that.

1. Zuko doesn't bother to train to refine his firebending like Iroh and Azula. He doesn't pick up on military strategy to consider the logistics and tactics necessary.

2. Zuko's hunt to capture the Avatar gets compromised by outside factors like Zhao wanting glory and honor for himself, The Earth Chancellor keeping Ba Sing Se underwraps, or attacking a Fire Nation General being treason.

3. He's too full of inner turmoil and issues to fire bend properly.

it's not entirely a goose chase. as far as the fire nation knew, the avatar was an airbender who escaped capture for the century or a waterbender who had a century to master three elements

Iroh trained Zuko well enough that he can pose as a super assassin, he was stronger than pretty much anyone who wasn't an important specifically powerful character. We don't really have any reason to believe Iroh knew the Avatar was out there during Zuko's exile where most of this training would most likely have been. I don't think the White Lotus would have risen if not for the Avatar's reappearance, otherwise Iroh was content to spend the rest of his life by Zuko's side. Even after the Avatar reappeared his attempt to teach Zuko how to generate lightning seemed genuine.

Iroh isn't teaching Zuko the one lesson that he needs the most: being ruthlessly efficient and pragmatic about his goals.

>She was literally the princess of the fire nation, their longtime enemy.

The Dai Li didn't give a fuck one way or another about the Fire Nation. They were a weird cult, and their cult leader got clowned on so they went with the new option. It's not that crazy.

I think it was stated that the whole chasing the Avatar mission was a passive-aggressive way to get rid of Zuko.

The Dai Li were the secret police of the Earth Kingdom. They didn't care who was in charge as long as Ba Sing Se was still standing.

it's a win/win situation
either the avatar isn't found, and ozai doesn't have zuko to bug him
or he is found and the greatest threat to the fire nation can be caught by his fat brother and worthless son

>Iroh trained Zuko well enough that he can pose as a super assassin
kek that was Piandao m8
Iroh doesn't teach him shit in those 3 years because that would ruin his dear retirement with his dead son's proxy

>Piandao
I don't remember that at all.
When was that stated?
(not that user you responded to btw)

Zuko must have trained under Piandao when he was only a little kid, the reason why Zuko was the way he was was because of those 3 years of exiles. We know for a fact that Iroh trained him.

Only said in a comic.

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>We know for a fact that Iroh trained him.
source your ass I guess
because all we know for sure is that Iroh was using every excuse to NOT teach Zuko anything new

she is "redeemed" in the smoke and shadow comic where she becomes Zuko's anti-hero adviser to make him a better firelord

>Zuko doesn't bother to train to refine his firebending
that's only pre-bacon Zuko
Zuko in his well done form is all about refining what little firebending he mastered before being exiled and wants to train but Iroh keeps him down believing his nephew is not ready emotionally to learn firebending and not turn into Ozai 2 Scarface boogaloo

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we literally see Iroh teaching him, we see Iroh giving him instructions "Remember your firebending basics, Prince Zuko. They are your greatest weapons" "Remember your breath of fire. It could save your life out there", also he says "It's time to **resume** your training" in Bitter Work.

>How could the writers expect us to believe that the Dai li would prefer her over the general?
Long Feng was not a general, he was a glorified bureaucrat.

The da li was wasted potential

She is getting redeemed in her own Azula way. She drew out the last of the resistance so her brother can rule in peace.

yes Iroh decided to resume Zuko's training that was spinning in place for the past three and a half years or so because his precious Avatar was in real danger this time
other than that all he did was watch Zuko repeat thing he already knew or come up with his own moves which is something the prince wouldn't have to do if somebody decided to train him in firebending and not just cardio