What went wrong?

They wanted to score more brownie points by having their latin lesbian written by a latin lesbian, but they fucked up and hired nuyorican dyke who couldn't write her way out of a paper bag.

>What went wrong?
In 2011, Joe Casey & Nick Dragotta created America Chavez instead of choosing to not create her. It's been all downhill from there.

It's fun to compare her to Kamala, because they came out at similar times and they both have diversities that turn some people off.

But Kamala started off confused, uncertain and made mistakes- and being headstrong often cost her. She looked foolish almost as often as she looked awesome, and her struggles with her family seemed universal even with the cultural differences. I'm a white man, but back in the day my mom didn't want me to date certain people or hang out with some people. It wasn't religion that we had in common, but we had experiences in common.

Ms. Marvel was buried in praise, nominations and even a few awards, thrown as fast as possible into tv and games.

MAC has a lot of write-ups about her. No, or next to no, awards, few nominations. Her comic is so completely un-self-aware they posted a letter comparing it to the Room as a compliment. It doesn't fit with the cosmology of the Marvel Universe, while trying to make a toxic failure the center of the whole multiverse.

I love it how, whenever you ask her fans why they like her, they just say "she's badass" or "she hits things," and never mention anything deeper to her character. Because there IS no depth outside of her violence.

I dated a girl named America. She was a huge bitch.

She was originally created to appeal to comic readers who liked the fiery latina types, nobody cares because the comic she premiered in was pretty bad. Then after a few years another writer made her gay because he wanted to make a team of gay teens, and tumblr kids did what they always do and began singing her praises. This gave marvel the bright idea to give her a solo because they thought that she actually had enough fans to support the book, which she didn't, and they hired someone who never wrote a comic before solely because she was a lesbian and to the surprise of absolutely no one, she was awful and the book bombed.

She was a total bitch, there's a difference. I'm pretty sure they like anything that's remotely sexy.

What's the original?

To be fair, their America was sexy muscular bitch who flew around without underwear. They never intended for her to become what Gillen and later Rivera turned her into.

The only reason I remember this character exists is from this one porn image someone drew I thought was super hot.

It never had anything right to begin.

For the type of character they will aiming she needed to had a competent nemesis. Or at least some sort of foil. She kinda work better in the horrible YA of Gillen because she was a part of a ensamble cast. In her own book America had almost not plot or something of interes. And is a shame because the character is hot as fuck.

May I see it?

rule34.paheal.net/post/view/1296078

She can't have a foil, because she's completely irresistible, unstoppable and perfect all the time. If she had Galactus as a foil, she'd no-sell him on page 3.

Lesbians existing.

It's so hilarious how so many people say how progressive she is when she's just a "latina who don't take no shit" stereotype. I still don't know what so many people see in Gillen.

>"latina who don't take no shit"
Isn't she just an alien that acts like that?

Ms Marvel has that kooky quality. Miss America doesn't.

I dislike them both in a similar way where they are both inserts designed to invoke a certain response but they don't really appeal to people. Their appeal is more meta based on what surrounds them (diversity in comics etc).

Take Spider-Man. He has had issues of balancing his life, worrying about money, in far more believable ways that endear him to his audience. Without those humanistic elements/qualities you get bad superheroes, bust especially bad Marvel characters.

They forgot to give her a personality

She is from lesbian dimension and started to act like a puertorican when she comes to the Earth,

who is this chad?

Honestly nothing. The people who had been vocal about getting an America Chavez book were "fans" of the character based purely on her description as a lesbian Latina, and they got exactly what they asked for: an ongoing series about an already infamous non-character by a writer whose only real qualifications were being a similar ethnicity and sexuality.

And so they got what anyone reasonably expected: an aimless, amateurishly written comic that didn't seem to even realize it was a stealth mini, with a character who didn't even manage to be consistent with the shallow version that came before it or even be better than the cringey fap bait the character was created as.

It's the epitome of the phrase "be careful what you wish for".
This isn't even a thing about muh sjws or politics or whatever. In fact I think the people who were excited about being represented by a Marvel character deserve far better than this, and I feel bad that in the current landscape nobody couls throw this in Marvel's face and ask "is this the best you can do?" without being lumped in with gator mongoloids.

But I think a lot of people learned a valuable lesson from this book, but don't want to admit, and that's that going hungry is still better than being reduced to begging for table scraps like America Chavez and Gabby Rivera.

So she appropriated a Hispanic culture, how the fuck did the Mary Sue or CBR not go after her?

Gillen's character was the exact same boring thing but without the creepy jailbait vibe, as was Ewing's.

>But I think a lot of people learned a valuable lesson from this book
No one did.

Because this mistake is just getting repeated over and over again.

>going hungry is still better than being reduced to begging for table scraps
this. don't want your book manhandled by bendis or cates.

>The people who had been vocal about getting an America Chavez book were "fans" of the character based purely on her description as a lesbian Latina
Man. Reblogging on tumblr is not the same as being vocal. And that is the problem.

Sharing a snapshot of a boring character just based on her looks is so lazy and kinda offensive but that is what happened. It gives people a warped perspective of things being "vocal" or popular.

I think this is the way to look at it

Spiderman's archetype has been well-tested in pretty much every iteration. It works between races, religions, and sexualities; the fish-out-of-water, snarky everyman who's just trying to keep up with far more powerful or influential people.

It's proof positive that character and style matter most, not race or whatever "representation" is supposed to mean.

Someone post THAT panel

>Lisa Halloran is officially a better character now
Huh.

It all started in the 60's with the civil rights era.

Fucking everything.

Its Identity Politics, not Consistent Politics.

She fits the IDENTITY, so its cool when they do it.

as opposed to wolverine and punisher?

Not enough dance fighting

>bait
Wolverine has an, admittedly, stupid backstory, but his backstory is not contingent on his race or "identity." Same with Punisher.

Wolverine could be a gay transman from the Beta Onions galaxy in the Cuckiverse, so long as he snikts bubs and grumbles about Jean, people will pick up his comics. His character is wrapped up in a general mood and aesthetic that's weirdly asexual (not a Casanova by any stretch of the imagination, rarely portrayed with random women). Punisher is even less complicated, his sex life is nil and his identity is a nihilistic void.

Point is, Wolverine and Punisher are better all-around characters than whatever this thing is. Her traits are what exactly? She does the 90's Spanish-lingo thing? She likes fucking girls? She's perfect in every way? What a boring, basic ass bitch.

Both of them have character

They managed to give Wolverine more humanity and character in one comic book that gave him next to no dialogue compared with EVERY single comic Miss America has been in.

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America (vol.1, 2017-2018) is a brave, political comic, tackling complex social issues.

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About time you got here

The infamous WWII (and Cap) scene and she should have collaborate with the original Miss America instead.

Is there only one person posting this? Or is this tradition being held up by legacy posters?

Wich one is worse?
That is the answer

I always took it as the same guy due to sheer dedication, anyone else would have deviated sooner or later in posting style.

I got an action figure of her for a childcare center I work at and the kids seem to like it.

>childcare center
Are they retarded?

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Not sure. They’re supposed to be learning English but it’s going slower than expected, so maybe.

Is this real?

It is indeed real and unedited.

yes...

I always found it funny how Peter has more in common with issues that effect black people more than Miles.

>poor
>crime ridden neighbourhood
>no parents
>bullied

>actual United States currency changed hands for this garbage at some point

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You sweet summer child.

>Yea Forums having any responsibility over the wellbeing of children
oh no

Liking a toy isn't really the same as liking the character though.

This is the thing. Giving people actual issues that connect with their identity makes them good characters.

Unfortunately writers think that to make a character that people connect with they should make a character "popular" by making them badass, liked by everyone, without flaws, quip bots that fit a certain demographic.

>the writer
>forced lesbians everywhere
>comic read like propaganda instead of an attempt at a fun story
>make America less stupid

most hispanics are religious and conservative and are very homophobic and hate lesbians. Most hispanic girls grow up Catholic and are straight and want to read comics about heterosexual girls who have crushes on cute boys-not butch lesbians dating bulldyke lesbians.

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That’s true, they don’t even know who she is. I just got her and Quake from AoS for cheap and brought them in.

My main responsibility is to buy more Oreos for them when the supply gets low. And to corrupt them with lesbian dolls.

Has anyone ever drawn her standing, I dunno, normally? She always has this slightly to the side leaning, I don't give a fuck posture that seems to perfectly encapsulate her shitty lack of personality.

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I remember that really hyped Young Avengers series with McKelvie and the team was Kate Bishop, Young Loki, Wicca, Hulkling, America and some other twinky looking hero.

I remember renting it from the library and thinking it was really bad and boring. The story was hard to follow and not very interesting. Yet everyone points to this series as amazing and they constantly try to launch solo series with the characters and the solo series always fail....

Am I imagining this?> That young avengers run Im talking about was really bad, right?

Puertorrican here.

Hate her with a passion.
Her writer clearly knows nothing about any specific hispanic people, she has America use idioms and expressions from all over which were often inaccurate and then many times with grammatical errors. It felt like i was chinese watching an old Warner Brothers cartoon. Since the writer is not culturally hispanic, she just made a patch work cartoon.

Then every single other concept was terrible. You write a coherent and appealing story and insert views, ok, you dont write down views and positions and work your story around those without an actual outline. It didn't lay things down thick, gabby fucking shit all over it with her pandering.

I hate the current fad with being offended by everything, but imagine if you were italian and snooky from the Jersey Shore decided to write a comic about an italian character. Shit was offensive. She was raised in another dimension for fucks sake, why would she even be like that?

By hyped you mean screen grabs shared on tumblr constantly.

It was a terrible series.

Reblogging screenshots is not the same as people buying a book. Unfortunately Marvel doesn't understand that.

God, fuck McKelvie and his default resting bitch faces.

No suit

Muh Lesmianism

The arts didn't have the standard how to do to draw comics with the Marvel way

Bad stories

How to fix?

simple

Fun stories made for everyone

Great artists

Hot women and chad guys

Suits, leotards

Follow the formula

To be fair, it was honestly the art.

Good art can carry a mediocre premise, but bad art combined with a mediocre premise and an idea factory that consists of throwing darts at a wall results in the clusterfuck that is America.

The sad thing was that I was excited for this series since I liked Heinberg's YA run and Gillen's JiM. Imagine my disappointment when it was just useless teen drama and Gillen screaming how great being a teen is. The only positive thing I could say was that Kate was written okay and there was a sense she was the same character that Heinberg created before she got Fractioned.

all the comics journalism sites hyping it talked about it so much and put it on their best of year lists. At the time i was dumb and trusted the comics media

America isn't just a bad character, she's a bad person. She has all the power in the cosmos and uses it to pick on internet trolls.

They do understand it, but are under the thumb of idiotic suits who will fire anyone who doesn’t create enough “buzz”

Hispanics want Iron Man, Captain America, and Spiderman. The idea that they can only like characters that look like them instead of just liking the same thing everyone else does is one of the most racist concepts ever. It's racism of low expectations.

If the goal really was to make a mexican/mexico-centric series that would get mexicans and latinos on board with comic books; they would have made a really good Zorro comic instead of whatever America is supposed to be(I know he's a spaniard, that's not the point).

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Marvel gave the character to an author of young adult fiction. And the series went further up it's own ass than it did in the writers ass.

>Marvel gave the character to an author of young adult fiction.
So was Kamala though. Wilson was a novelist first.

the same problem with captain marvel
it's a pattern
the problem is above the publishers and also the publishers
nice to read Boku no Hero and see real heroes
because at Marvel comics they lost the hand of how to make comics 10 years ago

youtube.com/watch?v=VkjDWnZW_yA

You know when you read someone's webcomic and the author insert is about to school the strawman with facts and logic and they have that expression on their face?

She is like that, in superhero form.

>I own this comic

I don’t understand how she counts as a “Latina superhero” when she’s from the Gay Dimension and has no roots in any earth culture

She doesn't. Whoever told you she is Latina lied.

I never got the focus on taking on internet trolls while focusing on social justice. Having your character insult those trolls is technically punching down.

There's a damn good reason why Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman are appealing to all demographics.

She's "Latina-coded"

For all the fear mongering about Punisher being a symbol for police brutality and racism, I've met quite a few black and hispanic people who love to see Frank do some Franking.

But even those black characters had appeal. America doesnt.

hey where the hell are all the Zorro comics now that Disney owns Marvel?

I believe that it was: Being Made

Breaking up with her girlfriend because of a long distance relationship while having instant teleportation powers and bad Spanish verb conjugations.

HOLY MENSTRUATION

Isn't Zorro public domain? I thought Dynamite last did a Zorro comic.

This is genuinely something out of a CWC comic in its sheer unabashed hamfistedness.

They didn't make it clear enough that she was gay
Far too ambiguous.

>Having your character insult those trolls is technically punching down.
My issue when people are fighting over politics in comics is 100% over shoddy writing.

Have a diverse hero? Go nuts. But when people shit on someone like Chavez it is 100% because the writing is just so fucking bad that it does nothing.

Thinly veiled attempts at hitting out at trolls doesn't make your comic appealing. It just makes you seem bitter. It is not some "deep metaphor" as writers think it is. It is petty and pathetic.

I went to a talk she held a few years back. All of a dozen people showed up. When she asked how many people had read the comic, I was one of maybe three people who raised their hands.

>Hispanics want Iron Man, Captain America, and Spiderman
I have a friend with a huuuuuuge Captain America collection. I once mention him that Captain America was one of the most successful propaganda characters ever created, he agreed and went on a full rant about how that was actually a good thing.
Pretty based motherfucker, I honestly thought he only liked him because he thought cap was cool or something.

When you think getting bullied nonstop online is a universal experience, it skews your writing...

>Gabby Rivera on How Marvel's America Is Exploring the Complexities of Latinx Identity
>Marvel hired Gabby Rivera, a queer Latina writer, for its queer Latina superhero. That matters.

why is captain america more popular with non americans

He actually isn't because he passed through so many hands in the last hundred years. A company called 'Zorro Productions' outright claims that the rights were transferred to them, and then their children, and then their children's children, which means all works of Zorro belong to them and they'll sue anyone who argues otherwise.
This is actually why there is almost nothing Zorro-related coming out. The last few movies and comic books had lengthy legal disputes with this shady company who all settled, won their case but didn't result in the trademark being abolished, or dismissed.

Basically the legal stance right now is "Zorro is public domain and so is The Mark of Zorro, but if you try doing anything with it this company will sue the shit out of you and there's a 50/50 chance they'll win". That's kind of why everyone gave up.

That is the problem. Writers stuck in a cosmopolitan bubble of blue check marked twitter. Can't understand the plight of normal people to make a character actually fit the roots of what they want to express.

Super ultra-patriotism and nationalism are still extremely popular to much of the world, and he represents a massive facet of that spirit.

People who think the greatest injustice anyone can suffer is getting misgendered on Twitter can’t write a good story. They just can’t.

While people often dislike their own patriotism they kinda feel a quaintness with the images of others' patriotism.

If she were to have a fool, I think another teleporter would be best. Her whole theme (if you can call it that) is about finding a place to belong, so her foil would be someone who embraced the idea of being a statless individual.

The foil would point out the ridiculousness of someone with powers like there's trying to find a place to settle down when the whole of reality is their home. How they don't need to worry about attachments or responsibilities, and that it's pointless to get too attached to one place or another.

America would learn the importance of the connections she has after interacting with her foil, and come to appreciate the importance of having a place to call home and people you form relationships with.

These two panels really sum up America in a nutshell.

Jesus Christ, her evil counterpart is just Rick Sanchez.

Nobody read the book beyond teaser pages and out of context panels, the sales were proof of that. Because nobody read it, nobody picked up on the implication that she was an alien pretending at a shallow interpretation of what "latinx" culture is.

She's bland as potato salad.

>her evil counterpart is just Rick Sanchez

God that’s the most profoundly sad and pathetic way I’ve ever heard a character described on Yea Forums and it absolutely nails America.

>”Hey, don’t mess with me old man!”
>”BUUUUURP sorry, w-w-what was that? Can’t hear you kid, too busy s-s-saving my country with BUUUURP portals that aren’t actually stars and stripes because, oh yeah, I don’t need to cosplay to be American!”

If they wanted hispanics on board, they would've made another white tiger book.
>three generation legacy character within a single family
>lucha aesthetics
>big booty hispanic girl as the protagonist

Nah. Even potato salad has more depth and tang than her

She's one of the only people in the world who, by all rights, should have literally no problems with a long distance relationship. Somehow, she managed to fuck it up anyway.

I wasn't even thinking this but it would be perfect.

How would she even deal with someone who doesn't think she's hot shit? Who's more than capable of dealing with her one and only strategy of "punching something really hard"?

Would she just break down in disbelief, or desperately try to attack him until he decided to vaporize her?

>to pick on internet trolls.
I don't remember that happening in the comics.

I'm Mexican and I didn't mind her until that vivaporú line, then I fucking hated her with a passion, then I forgot.

Fuck you for reminding me OP

>GUEST WRITER CWC

I read somewhere that since tumblrinas and SJW really don't have real human connections and friends they think humans talk like that.

At least Sonichu kept me entertained.

Fuck if Chris actually got to take a stab at a modern comic book I'd buy 10 copies. That shit might actually be worth something some day. God knows it'd be a hell of a lot more entertaining than this shit.

I don't think he could write something without shoehorning Sonichu in, so not like Marvel would hire him to write America.

1. She's not reletable.

I could literally careless for the smart talking latino bitch. Who always have a quick snip? And she's gay? Are you serious? I avoid America Chavez like the plague she is. She's every Lesbian Young Adult's dream fantasy. She's hella not reletable.

2. The writing is awful. It's written as if no one has talked to a human being before.

3. Real-world problems are not really applicable to America. For example; she has a long-distance girlfriend. She doesn't want her girlfriend to go a long distance relationship. The main problem is with this is that America can teleport. So why the fuck is she even bitching? There's no point of it. She's just being a pain in the ass because of story and plot. She breaks up with the girl over it.

4. The random/fangasm of America, there's no problem with her or her teammates over her attitude. Everyone just loves America. There's no problems, or at least hey this person said something a bit rude to me and she was kinda a jerk. None of that. Too Mary Sue on the nose. So everyone is not hypersensitive to this person's nature despite being a total asshat to people?

5. Dialogue. Author Character Insertion. Literally do not do this at all. That's the one thing that multitude of people do not fuck with. The only people who do that self-insertion shit literally Stan Lee and Alfred Hitchcock. And Maybe Bryan Lee O'Malley.

No because that would require her to not look hot because lesbians typically look butt ass ugly. Even the hot ones I can see the features where they are just... ugly. God damn.

The problem is that Gabby is acutally a creator of street mexican, it's kinda like how some black artists aren't gonna fit in Africa because of the fact that Africans don't really see highly of African American media and actions? Pretty much.

America Chavez vs Rick Sanchez is like some kind of weird 2010's-style revamp of Superman vs Luthor.

This is reminding me of Abhay Khosla's review of Bitter Root:

twiststreet.tumblr.com/post/186534009070

I read the extremely-celebrated first volume of Bitter Root.

It’s successful by the standards of current comics. The current standard: just have a really, really great high concept that resonates on both a simplistic genre level and that has some ultra-basic political moralizing that you can’t really “disagree” with, without exposing yourself as being retrograde, and thus easily dismissed; executing on that high concept is *completely optional.* That’s Maneaters, that’s Bitch Planet, that’s Bitter Root, anyways.

The high concept: during the Harlem Renaissance, a black family of monster-fighters takes on the worst monsters there are – WHITE DEVILS. White people who do racism magically transform into devils that the black characters punch or shoot or some shit.

That’s a successful concept under the current rules of engagement. And that’s all you need; again, execution is optional. Whee! Maneaters had no noticeable craft to it whatsoever– the execution was embarrassing, plus, boy, the creators sure seemed to mistreated their readers, that ugly business with the tweets. Bitch Planet, my memory’s not great, it’s been a while, but I just remember there being an unusual amount of football or soccer or something in there…? An unexpected quanta of foozball.

Bitter Root, past the premise, it’s just sort of a 90s Cliffhanger comic (e.g. Dangers Girls or Battle Chasers), though without a Cliffhanger comic’s open horniness. It’s trying to do a shonen thing– the characters face a bad guy, but don’t get around to defeating the bad guy but oh no there’s a worse bad guy on the horizon. The bulk of the 123 pages is just a single chaotic monster fight that just goes on and on and on and on, and all takes place in a single night. Didn’t feel like they had to move that story forward too fast, I guess! Just wanted to take their time… I don’t know– I just get bored when I can tell a comic’s not going to get around to attempting to tell a story anytime soon, but I guess I’m out-of-touch that way.

(TV tried to pace things like that for a minute, and then a bunch of them figured out like “if we do that, people will stop watching.” Comics as a whole just dug their heels in on slow pacing and simultaneously jacked up the prices, which … you have to admire the stubbornness at least!).

I mean, there’s nothing wrong with 90s Cliffhanger or with shonen. But the reviews for this are so orgiastic– like the book has one guy who’s like more of a Wolverine/Blade type character (but who really doesn’t do anything that cool past issue #1 or 2!), or as one review put it: “It’s a deliberate callback to the debates of civil disobedience versus militarism during the Civil Rights movement… or the more recent debates between discourse and more harsh responses in today’s fights against white nationalism. Bitter Root is a fun book, Bitter Root is a smart book, and most importantly Bitter Root is a necessary book for today’s world.” *A necessary book for today’s world!* It’s a fight comic about monsters…!

Plus, the trade comes with like 7 essays about how the publication of Bitter Root is the most important thing to happen to all black people since Nino Brown got shot down. It’s not that the comic’s bad exactly (except for one character who they just give thesaurus words to– comic people love to do that and it always sucks)(Frank Miller did that in a Sin City; I’d hazard to guess 90% of crime comics have had a “guy who owns a dictionary” character at some point– it’s like the Opposite of Wally Wood’s 22 panels that always work). But it’s mostly not bad. It’s just… Seems pretty inessential. Good drawings– fun art to look at. Interesting coloring though sometimes some pretty curious choices with the lighting (like what’s going on in this panel with the girl’s face???). A couple cool lines of dialogue here and there, though an awful lot of the dialogue involves some character or another saying “I’ve seen this before! I’ve seen this before and yet do not feel compelled to tell you when or where or what we did about it!” Plus, some storytelling choices I wondered about– like, I think one issue ends on a cliffhanger of a character getting sucked into hell, but rather than let that have any dramatic weight, they show you that character’s fine on the NEXT page (fatally undercutting that character’s later “resurrection” having any zazzle to it whatsoever…).

None of the characters really make an impression beyond their half-sentence “logline.” It’s an Image comic, so you know: the joke we all make is those are all TV / Movie pitches. So the girl character being “a girl who wants to fight even though society is like don’t fight you’re a girl” and not being anything even one iota more than that… You can kinda look at that and go, “well they didn’t need more than that for a pitch.” I picked out this panel of art (above) because of that line about “the big bad” which is like a 90s Joss Whedon show term. They’re having their characters in a Harlem period piece use Joss Whedon Writer’s Room lingo!!!! That sort of nerd shorthand spoke immediately to me about what kind of comic this was, who it was meant for, the limits of its ambitions…

And you know, maybe that’s unfair because this feels really influenced by manga and manga has certainly a particular rhythm that while it resembles television, isn’t… doesn’t feel inorganically arrived at(?); it feels true to the creators. But. I guess what’s in my head is: with manga, the characters are the content. With Cliffhanger comics, the art was the content. When Cliffhanger was coming out, there was also Vertigo at its peak– there, the story/aesthetics were the content. Here, with these Image books, I just always end up sitting here feeling like the concept is the content, which is … there’s no motivation to keep reading when that’s the case! But I’m not you know… I’m not a very giving or generous reader, either, so. I know that about myself at this point so…

(Tangent: Larry Fishburne was doing a podcast that was set around this same era, but in Chicago that… At least had Larry Fishburne’s voice in it… but no monsters– I mean, it’s an interesting era if you think about… like that argument Killer Mike makes about black businesses and the black dollar pre-desegregation, an economic environment which Fishburne’s podcast I think touched on more, whereas this comic doesn’t really… doesn’t really dig into Harlem or the period at all, as it’s too busy being exclusively about a 100+ page single fight with some monsters…)

As for the thematic content that gets people so inspired– ehhh. I don’t know. I mean, think on Milestone for a second. To me what made Milestone so remarkable when it was coming out– the thing that always struck me– a lot of those books weren’t awesome to look at or read sometimes; I never dug the colors; but… In my memory of them, at least (perhaps rose-colored?), they actually embraced diversity in a really dedicated way. Milestone I think recognized the diversity that existed within races themselves, so you’d have … black superheros who were conservative Republicans, while other black superheros were scrappy nerdy kids, while the black characters who were in a street gang had their own worldviews that were diametrically opposed to the other two, or. I mean, they didn’t just focus on the black experience– they had Xombi in there which I really loved; Hispanic characters; et cetera. Or they’d do a miniseries but it’d be about Holocaust, the bad guy in the evil black gangs.

Part of what Milestone tried to explode was the idea that only some model minority got to be a superhero or was uniquely part of the American experience moreso than any other minority. Whereas this Bitter Root is instead about like … This one special family where everyone is more awesome than the rest of the community… So, yeah: ehhhh. By comparison that feels significantly less-than.

Or for me, this felt like it was speaking to the sort of modern internet-fave notion that only white people can be racist. That horseshit about “only white people can be racist because of the power differential” or whatever…? I think that whole argument is just pretty dopey, personally. I don’t get down with that talk anyways, though it has its utility and places where it’s appropriate. (I mean, the argument at least suggests that its audience consider power structures and institutionalized racism, I suppose, but).

But I found Bitter Root’s project to be one that was … celebratory; meant to “give black audiences the fantasy genre experience they’ve been waiting for.” Which I guess is powerful for people– that reaction to Black Panther suggests that, say. I’ve just had a hard time understanding that as an end goal. For me, being Indian-American, I was more struck by something like Master of None, when that came out, the experience of … recognizing its world, of being able to finally feel that the world it was set in and talking about was finally closer to the world I lived in. As opposed to it handing me some power fantasy for lame Indian boys (besides the fantasy of being good at making pasta which… actually that part got to me a lot but)… I don’t remember being young enough to remember if an “Indian-American-specific power fantasy” was a desire I ever had; I remember wanting to be whichever X-Men got to do sex with Kitty Pryde, not an Indian-American X-Men, you know? But even if I did want a more racially-specific power fantasy back then, I’m glad that desire wasn’t one that was indulged! I mean, when has giving kids power fantasies ever worked out okay for them? People who like power fantasies too much seem all fucked up by those things, except for when I watch low-grade Japanese porno, then thumbs up. Like, we’re supposed to believe if we give little minority children power fantasies they’ll all end up in NASA, but my experience tells me they’ll just end up shouting at minority girls for “trying to steal X-Shaft away from them” or whatever the hell…

Anyways, it’s a good looking comic, though, and it’s not un-entertaining. It deserves some level of praise. And if it got more than that, heck, great. What’s the harm, I guess? People were all excited today about a $6 X-Men comic. (Or $6 on Comixology at least). So I mean, what’s the harm if Bitter Root gets talked up, I guess…? It’s fine. I mean, I guess it’s fine. Fine. I don’t know. There was a nice page where two characters talk while a different set of characters talk in caption boxes, while a bird flies around between the two sets of conversations. I liked that page, I guess. I don’t think this one’s just my kind of thing though… I was into some of the drawings, but just… It just went on a bit without really just moving shit forward, I think was just the part that rankled more than anything…

Sorry to ramble on and on. Strange few weeks at work– been needing to blow off steam I guess…

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Gabby Rivera.

I still can't believe they hired this guy to be Ned Leeds...

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remember when she tried to talk shit to Galactus?

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>stronk
nail in the coffin

The writing was ass and it didn't encourage any good r34

though most things that do are at least related to something decent by proxy.

How much does it take before a Latino is no longer part of Latino culture? This guy here doesn't even speak Spanish, and grew up in the states. To me he is just appropriating Latino culture, as evidenced by this very comic book, where they pretend Latino culture is just one big thing not differing from country to country
Like those black Americans who believe they have anything in common with Africans outside of skin color

>Island hispanic
Um she was not written for you and your internalized racism brought about from years of colonization

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user... I was making a joke about how Gabby Riveria looks like pic related... I think you're responding to the wrong person

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This should have been /thread.

Yeah we had comic 'reviewers' lining up to lick some progressive ass at #1 come #2-#3 they knew which way the wind was blowing because the general comic buying public pointed out the painfully obvious trash it is and so then occurred a miraculous reversal of 'critique'.

Rivera's Latino larping is for the sake of wanting to be perceived as an oppressed minority, the special snow flake-isms simply serve to reinforce that.

If the world is only respecting oppressed people, what is wrong with trying to be oppressed to get some respect? And if you like a culture, why not try to belong to it?

Nothing. It was a wonderful thing and I am legitimately sad there are no new issues with Gabby writing to enjoy with all the anons on here.

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I rest my case.

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>If you're a hugger it's totally cool not to be.
Peak emotional validation for the milksop generation.

The best part is that it's replying to an actual shitpost from a Yea Forums user that made it to print.

That's why it's such a tasty sjwMarvel quote. ;)

These are all beautiful women. You and I are lucky to be alive.

Speak for yourself.

This.

u will seen america chavez in 2021

Meh, I'm one of those who likes her in this board, one of the very few, and not ashamed to admit I'm a minority here (and literally so because I'm Latino, though not living in the States so it doesn't count I guess).
I think what really went wrong was Rivera, because she put her in the negative spotlight, that's about it. Before her, nobody fucking bothered to know who she was, and she was simply a quirky cosmic character with an American flag theme that speaks broken Spanish, who punches multiversal portals with her fists and kicks. That was honestly just fine, she wasn't meant to be some kind of woke representative of a race, just some sort of Space Latina from space Themyscira, that's it. I liked her in Ewing's run, I liked her in Gillen's, hell I liked her in Thompson's run even though she was relegated to be the team taxi and once again get her girlfriends dropped, whatever. It's all about what you can work with.
But Rivera? Yeah, to me that's definitely the turning point that caused all this heavy criticism thrown against a C-list character that frankly didn't deserve this much attention. You may as well ask what's the point of many other characters that have been created in Marvel in the near present or a decade ago, it depends on who uses them well and who doesn't. I could ask what's the point of all the Wolverine knockoffs and their fans could easily explain away their redundant asses simply because they had the luck of having a stream of X-Men writers constantly working on them, whereas MAC has had what, five? All in low selling series? It's a blip in comparison.

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heard a rumor the new avengers movie will have some time travel stuff in it they end up on some earth and run into the young avengers

Whatever happened to this?

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you had an over privilaged lesbian racist write for her

west coast avengers will have a small little cameo in a phase 5 movie

>most hispanics are religious and conservative and are very homophobic and hate lesbians
Actual Latino here, this isn't true, at least not too this extent. You can say this about your average hick and it would be a mischaracterization of Americans in general, because it is. Every country has its degree of conservativeness sure, but you're painting Hispanics with a very broad brush just to make a point.
In fact that shit only represents the older population that would definitely not bother with comics at all, not even implying your average latino would like what Rivera did (nobody would), but don't say bullshit like this, it doesn't fit.

They hired a racist, sexist, dyke to write a shit-tier book no one bought.

As far as I'm aware, silently cancelled after America came out, likely with the threat of suing in case it was published given the similarities. I would've preferred if Marvel had hired Joey and Nick to write her again, but alas...

I am only familiar with her from the outside but when I heard her backstory and saw the ad (You know the one) I honestly thought the people showing me were taking the piss.
I have a high tolerance for wokeness but trans-latina from the lesbian dimension is where I draw the fucking line. It is border line self parody.

I got my Puerto Rican friend the first two issues as gift, I figured she like them on the grounds of she enjoys terrible films and likes comics. A day after giving them to her she texted me a really thoughtful message thanking me but later on she texted back a simple "fuck u"
I don't think she liked America that much.

The original text of The Curse of Capistrano (the first Zorro story) and "Further Adventures of Zorro" are PD. The 1920 Mark of Zorro film may also be PD along with Zorro Rides Again, Zorro's Fighting Legion, and Zorro's Black Whip.

>Basically the legal stance right now is "Zorro is public domain and so is The Mark of Zorro, but if you try doing anything with it this company will sue the shit out of you and there's a 50/50 chance they'll win". That's kind of why everyone gave up.

They actually didn't.

hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/zorro-licensor-role-reversal-faces-trial-copyright-infringement-1111593

We don't know what the outcome to this trial was, though.

I don’t remember seeing a reversal of critique. I mean, some places just stopped taking about it, but the ones that reviewed later issues premised it’s fresh and original story and lamented it’s cancellation. Apparently lolsorandumb = good.

They lamented the cancellation on the basis that it was a "diverse title", not that it was any good. It was the principle of the thing because the cancellation came with other titles also dropped nearly at the same time.

Text her back explaining you gave it to her because she likes bad movies, so you thought a bad comic would be funny to her. Otherwise she'll think you're a MAGA chud.

Also, Gabby is a joke even among SJWs and PoC creators. Everyone is ashamed of her and what she did. I thought it would be nice if, instead of dunking on people that look and act like less cringey versions of her, we could agree that she's dumb. Like how anons of all political sides destroyed Hal Turner's life.

>Also, Gabby is a joke even among SJWs and PoC creators. Everyone is ashamed of her and what she did
This. There's plenty of folks who refuse to defend her after she started posting all these weirdo tweets about being "uncomfortable around white people", which sent some serious red flags. Like you can address racism or prejudice in many ways but don't fucking claim white people are your enemy when more than half the scene is white.

>Also, Gabby is a joke even among SJWs and PoC creators. Everyone is ashamed of her and what she did.
Proof? All the reviews and interviews I saw did nothing but heap praise on her.

Not him but all these reviews are from literally two years ago, a year later they were already turning on her. The praise was only got the first couple of issues and again, on the PRINCIPLE of the thing, not the actual series, same as lamenting its cancellation.

salon.com/2019/06/03/inside-gabby-riveras-joyful-queer-marvel-revolution/
> It is huge. First of all, what a treat, to be the first Latina to write for Marvel comics. Wow, wow, wow. Then not only that, I get to write the solo series for their first lesbian Latina character, America Chavez. Right away, I was excited. You do your work, you dive right in. She already existed in the Marvel universe. So I read everything that they had already written about her. Marvel was excellent in sending me PDFs of X-Men comics from the '80s and stuff. Like, "You want to write about Storm? Here's how we can help you prepare for Storm in this."
>Also I did my research. I talked to my friends deep in the comic world. There's a trans Latina writer, Mey Rude. She writes a lot of comics stuff for Autostraddle, and a lot of places. I reached out to her, and I said, "What do you love about America Chavez? What do you want to see in a comic written by me? What do you expect?" Because I reached to my communities first, that gave me a really good foundation to go wild with America's story.

Yes.
And even when not they don't pretend to be more than violence schlock.

Always and forever, I was there, at that very same Storytime of Pain

How long as this been that way because Zorro, the chronicles is from 2015.

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I’m gonna be honest

I really wanna see what life in the Lesbian Dimension is like. You can’t just make a character that’s a lesbian from the Lesbian Dimension and not elaborate on that shit. Like, what does their history even look like? Sexism can’t exist without two genders, so what does hate look like there? What’s their literature look like? I just gotta know

He isn't actually. He's the kind of "boring like Superman" with added "America is DA BEST" in public eye.

>Also, Gabby is a joke even among SJWs and PoC creators.
Not really. Her insane views are pretty par for course among SJWs.
They stopped supporting her because no matter how hard SJWs shilled her book, or how many 10/10 reviews they gave her, the user ratings would always hover around a 2/10.

It’s pure heaven all the time. There is no history because it’s one blissful, straight white male free day after another. Their music and art is beautiful and flawless, just like everything lesbians do at all times. Their paintings of flowers look a little odd, though.

Wait the White Devils part is genuine? It sounds like a parody of 70s blaxploitation

Her name, fucking American Chavez? Wtf kinda name is that? Her superhero name is also very generic that it's basically a beauty pageant title.

I assume they have a rigid caste system based on skin color because humans love discriminating

Do Lesbian Pirates From Outer Space come from there?

>BRAAAAAP

>Sincerely, C.O.

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SJWs

Please provide proof that they turned on her

Not gonna dig old shit for you, just check the America Chavez Talk account on Twitter and the replies, they collectively hate what Rivera did. twitter.com/LetsTalkMAC

I asked for proof about comic reviews turning against her not twitter comments
If you're going to make a claim you need to back it up

That's dumb, barely anyone makes negative reviews unless they're hit pieces ranting against SJW's. You won't find that shit anywhere about any series otherwise.

Also... I am under no obligation to back up my claims, this ain't a high school debate. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, nobody gives a fuck beyond that. Chill.
The people who should care are the fans and readers, reviewers are meaningless here.

so you have no proof?

I never said I had proof of reviews??? The fuck?

well then don't claim that her comics got negative reviews

>what the holy mensuration

At no point I said it did, I said they praised the first issues then lamented its cancellation, at what fucking point you assumed they reviewed the rest at all?

might want to read your comment again
>Not him but all these reviews are from literally two years ago, a year later they were already turning on her. The praise was only got the first couple of issues and again, on the PRINCIPLE of the thing, not the actual series, same as lamenting its cancellation.

Yeah? You may want to read it again, actually: they praised it because it was a diverse comic, not because it was good. And I wasn't talking about America you fucking moron, but the author.
Why do you think she hasn't got any new gigs at all, if it's someone so we'll connected with the scene and everyone likes her? They dropped Rivera like a hot potato after her bad behavior, she could no longer play victim.

>they praised it because it was a diverse comic, not because it was good
that's what they always do
>And I wasn't talking about America you fucking moron, but the author.
they always bring up the author, they want everyone to know it's written by a lesbian Hispanic woman
>Why do you think she hasn't got any new gigs at all, if it's someone so we'll connected with the scene and everyone likes her?
I never said anyone liked her, I just doubted that any form of media would turn on a such a woke comic.
>They dropped Rivera like a hot potato after her bad behavior, she could no longer play victim.
true

I had a discussion with one not too long ago, I noted the fawning praise at issue #1 and the change of opinion by #2 - #3 when even the hive mind couldn't support this book for the trash it is. He didn't really justify his opinion saying that it was a gradual reversal of thought. Bullshit.

You would be disappointed progressives aren't capable of writing anything other than superficial qualities.

>literally intrigued
Redundant statement. You can't be figuratively intrigued

>Forest Hills
>crime ridden

What really threw me about the series wasn't so much the writing but the complete lack of editing.

Remember when America punched Hitler? And nothing came of it? Was that the real Hitler? Was it a Zola clone? Was it just one of his doubles? Why didn't she just kill him or at least capture him? What was Cap's reaction? Was it a parallel universe? Did she END WWII?

But instead they let Gabby do an emotional money shot with no narrative consideration at all.

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It wasn't a weird father-daughter style comic with Captain America playing a bumbling mentor who doesn't understand her and her being herself

Now you got me thinking about weird sex pairings. for shame.

Nothing sexual. Just Cap mumbling "Foolish kids these days" as America yells "I LOVE PUSSY UNO DOS TRES QUATRO LOS POLLOS HERMANAS" at the top of her lungs while burning her bra or some shit.

Holy fucking based!, /thread

Did she get canned or something?

how old are you anoncito

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I’m sorry user

You deserve hell.

so til every should just be all straight white people to make Yea Forums not get mad. nice thing to know i guess.

I did, that was like a year ago I think. She thought America was funny in the same way she thinks shitty movies are funny. That reminds me though I should get her the trade.

based sensible reply

>called miss america
>not american
wot?

everything

that's an edit, retard

>C.O.
every time...every god damn time

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