I keep hearing about how much he suffered.What did he suffer through exactly?

>we never got to see Suffering-Man in either of the Spiderverse events
Is it because his mind tigers are too OP?

Slott probably thinks that he's the same one as the toku version.

Didn't it imply in the end because he suffers so much he has control over every mind tiger possible?

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tiger...tiger tiger tiger

where are these scans from?

Plot Twist, Darkseid was Spiderman all along!

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I remember that one story where there’s this bitch whose eyes bring out “the evil within” and she does absolutely nothing to cover her eyes and openly caused mass panick and hysteria so badly o guy rapes his sister, it’s retarded and the whole school becomes a war zone cause one bitch couldn’t wear sunglasses it ended up playing into the long metaphor of human nature being like a tiger, the main character is too much of an angsts autist to effectively call people like the evil eye lady out on their stupidity and is much more likely to let people die while he angst out it also has some cynical social commentary about Japanese society and one chapter where a guy thought being able to jump high made him god

The Inheritors knew that draining Komori's essence would just make them all emo.

That's why he was left as a mere footnote among the other spiders.

>Abused woman gets superpowers that kill people around her, she does it unconsciously and is terrified by it, spiderman decide to go kill her, when he founds her she is about to jump off a bridge, spiderman tries to save her but stops himself because is better that she kill herself.

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Yeah I felt like the author truly doesn’t understand Spider-Man or anything about him he’ll he was probably just vaguely going off the tv show and his need to basically create an angsts superhero

At the begining he put some spiderman villains, those guys are not in the Japanese tv show, probably just read some comics and dial up the angst

what order am I meant to read this in?

>the main character is too much of an angsts autist to effectively call people like the evil eye lady out on their stupidity and is much more likely to let people die while he angst out it also has some cynical social commentary about Japanese society
Yu owns.

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Spider-Man's characterization was a problem from the very beginning
Lee wanted the heroic cool with the kids Spider-Man, Ditko wanted Spider-Man to be more objectivist

Were the X-Men and Hulk manga this angsty?

Uncle Ben used to come in his room and touch him at night.

Was Yu really supposed to be Japanese Peter? Takuya is his own character even without Leopardon.

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He considered any sort of sexual thoughts/activity impure

Everyone was raped or murdered in the end
He was impotent to save anyone
He literally never saved anyone
Whenever he acted to save someone it was the wrong choice and people died
Whenever he chose to not act it was the wrong choice and people died
A person he loved died
Cut to next chapter
A person he loved died because of him again
at a certain point he seems to just give up mentally
He gets high on marjuanna after seeing his girlfriend maybe getting railed by an old man, and he's too high and vomitting on the floor after smoking the joint to stop a women from being raped. Although he still manages to do it barely
At the end of the manga he fucking hates humanity so much after what he's had to go through that his anger turns into a tiger and kills everyone left in the story.
Also everyone was raped

He's not Peter Parker. Komori's idea of responsibility was trying to end the girl that could only hurt others and herself, only to try to save her again at the very end realizing that even if she killed everyone around her this still wasn't right, only for his moment of hesitation to still lead to something he'd only regret later.

Komori has no Uncle Ben
He has no idea what the fuck he's doing, he's just vaguely trying to live up to his idea of justice but he's doing it very badly. He gets high off his super powers sometimes, they make him arrogant, only for him to come crashing back down and realizing what a fuck up his life is when he gets back home and is reminded of how he jacked up to the only girl he likes after she turned him down.

Komori is just a normal guy who starts off with some idea of what justice is, and as the story goes along basically has no idea what it is anymore by the end. Ever trial he goes through takes away any idea he had about what's right in the world. Everything in his world was either cursed or way too morally grey.

so it's you good old school shooter Spider-man?

He's just so sick of all the rape and watching everyone suffer, and no matter what he does he can't manage to save anything.

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No he doesn’t actually have it in him to go out in the town and kill people but thanks to being a mange yet for ever monster/rapist/asshole in Japan by the end he’s pretty much burnt through his hope for humanity hell that tiger in the end was really acting on someone else’s hate against people who screwed her, he’s really just stumbling from villain to villain with some being sensible to completely retarded he does almost nothing right and it ends with him having a body count of people he let die by inaction

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What would Peter think of him if they met?

Slott probably doesn't know about it. DC didnt know the Bat-Manga existed for decade's, now theyre proudly selling it

He'd probably hug him for a long time and then try to help him be a better super hero

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>That time Komori stops a villain, only to find out that he's a Vietnam veteran with PTSD(The manga was coming out during Vietnam war), who was told that he had to go back to the war since he was on a short leave. And he went insane and went on a killing spree because he couldn't handle going back to that hell.

Even when he does the right thing he can't win.

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Why would someone put so much angst in a shounen? Was the author trying to out-angst devilman?

>That time Komori stops a rape, only to be blamed for the rape by all parties involved and his reputation at school ruined forever. And it never gets cleared up. He's so dead on the inside he doesn't even care about clearing up the truth anymore.

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No, you're just unaware of how manga was in this time period. Read Kamen Rider or Devilman. Every Japanese superhero was suffering-man at the time. In this instance, technically speaking there is a legitimate moral debate about suicide being part of someone's personal freedom

Well I imagine Pete would try to give him a decent fucking pep talk and pointers on how not to fuck up and stop actively letting people die he’d probably be slightly disgusted by how much of an angst ridden ass he was by the end but the story makes a point that his world is fucked because people suck, as one user mentioned this Spider-Man really doesn’t have any mentor figures or real freinds at all, honestly he just seems to be a third wheel in his friendship circle, no Harry Osborn, no uncle Ben, no may not decent love interest he just had him

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>That time Komori tries to get a new girlfriend

Nah man, this is literally written the same as Devilman. That's what we're trying to say here.

This is pretty much Spider-man Devilman.

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Good point although I am a devilman fan and even know that even some of the kids anime’s at the time had the villains regularly commit genocide each episode before murdering more civilians in the next one but it just weird to have so much angst in a Spider-Man book

>That time that Komori donates his blood to someone in a life threatening accident.

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I think Peter would just want the fuck out of that world. Its not Komori that's fucked, its the entire world that he's in.

Not to mention the dudes own sister wanted Komori to kill him

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The OG Kamen Rider manga is pretty good and filled with suffering. Plus his first villains are literally named Spider-man & Bat-man. The Batman fight is really brutal. I highly recommend it.

>That time Komori decides to stop skipping school, only to come back to it and find its because an active war zone of rape.

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>The time Komori fights a super villain, only to accidentally kill him again.

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Oh and since the actor from the tv show got injured during a stunt, the manga synergized by having the original Rider straight up die and a second cyborg took up his mantle. Lots of suffering.

>don’t forgot said school war between kids was all started by one bitch whose power was to bring out the evil in people or most likely just made them go nuts and instead went out of her way to surround herself with people without even wearing some fucking glasses
>Her Powers literally caused a full scale war where people died
>Peter didn’t even bother saving her ass

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>Every time Komori acts, he ends up doing the wrong thing, usually accidentally kills the villain
>Every time Komori refuses to act, it ends up being the wrong choice, people die because of it

Nice commentary on how everything you do is wrong.

I think after the halfway point he just didn't think he could save anyone anymore. He wasn't even trying at a certain point. World wasn't black and white for him anymore, the more he knew about shit the less sure he felt about any action he took in every situation.

Like that time he can't figure out what's right anymore and tries letting his gangster friend get away. He was a step away from actively committing crimes near the end. I mean aside from all the murders he's complicit in already.

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It’s funny how there’s actually a canonical Spider-Man universe where the hero regularly deals with rapists and a complete inability to do anything about it

He can do something about it, but everything he does results in everyone dying. Gotta weigh your pros and cons a bit there.

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That time Komori tries to fight against reckless driving, not knowing what to do anymore he just ends up crying in the car of the villain.

Also his girlfriend died earlier that day

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Is Leopardon pretty much the strongest robot in Marvel? He can defeat multiversal Vampire.

good downloads for the series? for issues 1-31 you got some shit scans
but i see 32 and 33 actually look good

Does Komori translate to Parker? Because readinf all of these posts makes me wonder how he got the worst case of Parker luck despite not being one. You could rename him Suffering-Man.

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What is Tiger-Force?

man, that's too much. This is basically emotional torture porn

Spider-man the manga is a very aquired taste; not sure everyone will get it. Its like watching Spider-man but with 10x as much bad luck. You watch him spiral down and down further, and then when he gets to ground level with nowhere left to fall, he starts burrowing down into the earth itself just so it can keep falling further.

After a point i'm laughing at the story, but its a pained laugh almost. The story slowly devolves further and further into a drug trip and there's no way to stop it any longer. The main protagonist and you are along the ride watching just how much further it can fall, and he's just as confused and broken as you are by that point.

That’s time Komori actually won one against a crazy guy western wrestler whose only power was being pretty strong and could jump high and decided to cause mass panic by stealing basically a bacteria that could cause a plague

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yeah, someone did the series in crystal clear scans awhile back. Maybe you're not looking hard enough.

The whole things basically torture porn with Komori having literally no one to relate or talk to so he’s stuck being an angsty loner with superpowers

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>he meets the fantastic four
>reed richards hires him to fill in while he's doing SCIENCE
>yu kills doctor doom but feels shitty about it when he learns that doom had a shitty life and he was trying to save his mother (note at this point int he story aunt mei died, yes this detail is important for suffering man)
>also he's indirectly responsible for genocide in Latveria after Doom's death
>sue falls in love with yu and wants to run away with him
>yu is up for it but chickens out when he feels like he'd be breaking up a family
>he gets ben and johnny killed
>sue kills herself when peter rejects her, when she learns everyone around her is dead, and when continues to think about her shitty marriage
>reed tries to kill yu but ends up killing himself, destroying the Fantastic Four tower and company and putting the world in a recession due to a tech giant like Richards company going under over night
>yu goes back home to find out he's been evicted

>yu hides in x-mansion
> at this point his reputation is so bad that after one mission with x-men he ruins xavier dream forever
>mutants are now public enemy of the society and are killed at first sight all over the world
>logan is held captive and used as a source for infinite organs donation
>Xavier lynched by a mob
>Entier power plant is built around cyclops prison
>Jean commit suicide
>Is resurrected as Dark Phoenix some years later and wipes out humanity
>expect for Yu who is now held as a prisoner in a pocket dimension for eternity

bump

Devilman is not this angsty, Devilman is not even 1/10th this angsty

Yu was closer to Ditko's Peter.

So basically, Japanese Spider-Man is CRAWLING IN MY SKIN the manga. I think I'll pass.

This feels like it wasn't just written by someone who doesn't understand the character; it feels like equal parts someone who doesn't understand super heroes as a concept, but someone who wanted any vehicle to tell their fucked up nihilistic yarn about how much everything sucks and didn't give a damn about dragging an On-Loan character through the muck to do it.

This is a weird fucking trend, too. Almost all of the Kamen Rider manga I've seen apart from Kamen Rider 1 are usually dark stories completely unchained by any sense of telling a heroic story or even anything coherent. Even Ishinomori fucked up with the Kamen Rider Black manga which felt like stream of conscious dark meandering where the bad guy wins and the hero never got his shit together after awhile.

I mean, FFS, Kuuga is one of the more upbeat, or at least hopeful entries in the franchise and there's a manga of it that has a detective character just sitt back letting a serial killer immolate a lady victim...BEFORE he steps out to confront/arrest the guy. Has nothing to do at all with Kuuga but it still has the name stamped on it.

C-R-I-M-E-A-N S-P-A-C-E T-I-G-E-R-S

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Kuuga himself shows up later on, but the manga's still garbage and Godai's unrecognizable.

Ishinomori just liked really dark stories.

>character isn't a goofy and silly
>lol this is so emo xD

I've never understood this.

I mean, not Ishinomori telling dark stories. That's par the course for him, and he's alright.

But apart from Jetman having that ONE sequel manga, toku stuff like the Spiderman adaptation, Kamen Rider, Power Rangers/Super Sentai, etc. never get manga adaptations that are either faithful to the themes/shows or at all.

I mean, these franchises have endured hiatuses and slumps and somehow still survive even though Pokemon has been eating their lunches for decades at this point. They clearly maintain an audience, and you'd think a few manga volumes could get made without it turning into a nihilistic farce.

Why's My Hero Academia the only franchise that actually--relatively speaking-- gets supers as a concept right in Japan?

Technically speaking mahou shoujo is very close to capeshit. The only difference is that its marketed towards girls

I don't know. I feel like this is ignoring things like Kamen Rider SPIRITS, Tiger & Bunny, and some of the Ultraman comics.

There's a lot of the comic adaptations that are perfectly fine and in keeping with the original tone, it's just that they don't get translated for one reason or another. You gotta remember that we're getting a very curated list from the fan translation community and there's a lot of shows and comics that go unnoticed because people either don't know about them, don't care about them, or can't get access to them.

Honestly, T&B is better than MHA anyway. Both in terms of characters and as an homage to American-style superheroes.

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I've never been able to find the Kamen Rider Spirits manga, or at least the time I did it had a garbage translation--or something was wrong with it.

You make some good points, and forgive my ignorance but wasn't Tiger/Bunny also about corporate sell outs as a problem in the super hero community? Kinda reminded me of Mystery Men.

t. hasn't read anything posted in this thread

Spirits, unfortunately, has a long and troubled history with the scanlation community. Someone will do a few dozen chapters, then drop it and leave it for someone else to get six or seven years later. The only existing translations are troublesome, but they do get the point across.

Tiger & Bunny wasn't about corporate sellouts at all. The show was in place to make NEXTs, that is the people with superpowers, accepted by society rather than feared and hated like Marvel mutants are. Yes, they have corporate sponsors and have to worry about making their sponsors look good, and yes they compete in a reality TV show, but the Heroes are genuinely good people who want to save lives and help everyone they can.

They've more got their hands tied by the necessity of the world rather than being corporate shills who're only in it for the money. (Well, except Blue Rose. She started being a hero only because they promised to give her a music career, and even then she grew out of that and realized that being a superhero was more important.) And even then, that doesn't stop them from doing hero work outside of the corporate limitations.

Think of them less as Mystery Men and more as Peter Parker going "There's no way I can afford to live off of being Spider-Man, so why don't I just slap a Pepsi logo on my shin and let them pay me enough to support my family?"

Worth noting that, of the Heroes, only two of them live in the rich section of town. The others all have middle-class apartments or live in the working class area.

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>gets supers as a concept right in Japan?
ironically because its x-men, but without the mutant oppression angle

but its more closer to your typical shonen than superheroes in terms of characters

This guy's the King of Heroes, the most successful out of the bunch. You'd expect him to be the biggest shill of all, but no. He spends hours of his own time just going out and saving people because it's the right thing to do.

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yu isn't really brooding enough to be considered emo. he doesn't really get caught up in the same feeling of pain the whole manga, its always something new every week

Ikegami's an old school gekiga guy influenced both by that and Neal Adams and the socially relevant comics DC was putting out at the time (since he likes American comics). Spider-Man is basically not at all different tonally than other gekiga of the time like Lone Wolf and Cub, Golgo 13, Eko Eko Azarak and whatnot.

It’s just classic Japanese superhero manga stuff, especially from the 60’s and 70’s. A lot of those were dark as fuck in an intensely melodramatic way.

The happiness and optimism of shonen-style manga was literally not even a thing yet somehow.

a lot of tiger and bunny felt like it was a lot of vets in the entertainment industry kind of making digs at the corporate politics of it all

Optimistic shonen wouldn’t be invented for another decade.

Nonsense. You still had happy, optimistic kid's comics. Tezuka was churning that shit out, for example

Yeah, he had a lot of dark themes and sad endings in various works, but the vast majority of, say, Astro Boy was optimistic and heroic as fuck.
Yeah, there was definitely an element of that. But the show itself is a genuinely good superhero show that fits in with American-style cape comics a lot better than MHA.

dumb boomer

My Hero Academia feels more like Naruto with more skin showing than a superhero comic at times.

No idea about the X-Men series (which was published in the late '90s). Hulk was written by Kazuo Koike so I'd imagine there was likely some gekiga angst but I don't think it's ever been reprinted or scanlated.

So how does the whole thing end? Does he commit seppukku?

Dragon Ball largely changed what's stereotypically shonen. Series like this, Eko Eko Azarak, The Drifting Classroom and Ashita no Joe were all shonen series too even though today they'd likely wind up being moved to seinen magazines just like JoJo and all the FotNS follow ups (both originally shonen).

This is probably the best explanation of the Tiger Force out there.

Why was this guy giving a Spider-Man job again?

Ishinomori on Spider-Man would've been totally different. Holy shit, that would've been a thing.

This guy probably got it because he asked. Or he just started in on it. Copyright's different in Japan.

>yu meets the avengers
>captain america freaks out when he sees yu's face! "he's a dirty jap"
>he goes into a ptds ridden rage on him
>yu is forced to fight back and ends up killing him
>the avengers look in horror not knowing how to feel about the incident
>iron man who vouched for yu starts drinking again

Ends with Komori investigating a rape case of an 70's singer who was raped and given an STD in order to push her out of the business, by her co-workers, because their boss ordered it. Because they knew rumors of her sexual promiscuity at the time and other factors would mean her career would be destroyed either way, in addition to all the mental scars

And then a psychic mind tiger kills everyone, as Komori refuses to take a women to the hospital since even if she lived she'd never find happiness again, so he considered this mercy for her. And he encouraged the tiger to kill everyone.

Yeah by the end he wasn’t even Spider-Man just some kid with spider powers he’s basically says fuck it and admits humanity sucks and let’s people die it very cynical

So what the fuck was wrong with Japan at the time? I get wanting some realism but it gets fucking ridiculous

suicide epidemic

Don't forget, this was only twenty-five years after WWII. Most of the people who were born during or immediately after were crafting the media and they were seriously scarred by it. If not the war directly, then the kind of place that Japan was in the aftermath.

It was rough. They didn't really start recovering until a lot of the kids had the scars of war imprinted on them already, becoming some seriously troubled adults.

Also, this is the gekiga genre, a genre meant to mimic serious drama movies.

The issue with the plan hijacking being orchestrated by a soldier trying to get out of going back to war was heartwrenching.

Yeah I guess having two cities nuked and your imperialistic empire curb stomped so hard you become a democratic pacifist bitch for a western power really does fuck you up hard

And the final arc despite just being another episode of the week devolves into him acquiring yet another power that's the accumulation of all the righteous fury he's bottled up over the course of the series.

It's surprising how impotent he feels despite having so much power, he constantly comes up short and arcs usually just ends up with everyone involved worse off than they were at the start.

I think it sounds like spider in Japanese

Kumo = spider

Komori... Depends on how it's written in Japanese, but saying it out loud it means "Babysitter" or "Nursemaid".

...Yeeeeaah. Even stuff like Tatsunoko animation, which was pretty much Japan's Hanna Barbera at the time (dominated TV during the same decade, even) and was colorful and campy had *alot* of violent and down right fucked up shit all over the place in their shows.

I mean, Casshern alone was no Suffering Spider-Man but it was still pretty out there. Even stuff like Gatchaman and Polymar (especially Polymar, holy shit) would just fucking outright murder the badguys and or have the heroes deal with murderous shit and melancholy moments while over in America the Super Friends couldn't even punch robots.

Wasn't until the 80s when things started getting legit more positive, not suspiciously around the time Japan hit that economic boon and bounced back.

I was going to say that all these characters looks almost the same, but than again, most modern western heroes are also very similar. I wonder if one of the reasons Devilman because popular was the fact that he had very distinct design

I think it was more that Go Nagai was just that hardcore awesome.

Cutey Honey was a sort-of precursor to Sailor Moon (which codified the Magical Girl genre into being less "I dream of Jeannie" shenanigans and more "monster fighting like Kamen Rider") and he influenced alot of things for the mecha genre as well (all before Gundam showed up, no less...)

He also had a very wild intense kind of style in alot of his work which drew more attention to it as well as him hooking audiences with a good story and he didn't shy away from smutty fair either. (I also think the dude knew where and when to do that without it become too egregious compared to even modern day shit, but I digress...)

Dragon Ball and One Piece were similar to Go Nagai in that their creators each used a more unique art style to help them stand out.

Who can forget the time Honey disguised herself as a statue so people wouldn't find her, and two of her friends (an old man and his sub-ten year old grandson) stopped to eat out (front and back) the statue because it looked so hot?

Or the fact that her teachers were raging lesbians?

Japan had drama shows like the original Remi (boy version).

Also they had to deal with douchey bad borderline abusive parenting.

Oh I’m a huge gatchaman fan and that show did not fuck around sure you’d get some camp but holy shit the heroes go through so much and the villains regularly commit genocide and destroy innocent lives hell on episode they literally gave poison bombs to kids just so they could get a higher kill count when they got home and no they couldn’t stop them in time, Galactor was evil in the purest sense and would regularly annihilate cities before gatchaman even started to stop them

Not to mention Gatchaman themselves don’t actually care about the mooks and actively murder them by the dozens each episode usually through explosions they even tortured a few of them just to get info before being told to cool it the Japanese really gave no fucks about showing kids the horrors of war

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Mind tigers? can someone explain

mind tigers are symbolic of the inner rage all humans have

kind of silly and taken more literally than it really should

they look so much like capeshit characters

...Are we talking about the original TV series from the 70s that kinda sorta got canceled before finishing the entire story, the manga, or one of the later entries? I legit don't remember the old man and his son doing that.

...Still kinda less fucked up than some of the more modern shit I've seen, but damn.

The original manga.

She has a few goofy adventures, they perv on her some, one of her teachers fucks her students, and then Panther Claw kills most of the girls in her school right around the final battle.

Come to think of it, isn't there a Maya The Bee like show Tatsunoko did around this time about a boy bee trying to get back to his mom and he keeps meeting other bug people and most of them are horrifically killed on screen as tragedy and suffering follows him?

And while yes, the poor little bastard actually gets a happy reunion with his parent the *second fucking season* starts killing off characters right at the start?

Jeez. Japan *really* needed the 80s.

Jeez. I was mostly referring to the show,which Nagai worked on and the manga was worked on by him and two other dudes...

Well they actually were inspired heavily by capeshit since the creators back in the 50/60s had a bunch of western comics that they mostly couldn’t read but were inspired by the art and characters designs and the general story they could pick up visually

I now remember how half the mecha shows at the time had straight up bad endings, aside from the standard suffering throughout.
And they were not all Tomino shows.

Hutch the orphan aka Honeybee Hutch

Also said comics were left by Western WW2 soldiers

It's what gives The Tiger his powers

Basically, Dragon Ball Changed everything

That's giving too much credit to Dragonball.

People rather have Goku, then another geikga who angsts in every page.

Yeah, but it's totally ignoring the contribution of comics and shows like Mach Go/Speed Racer, Tetsuwan Atom/Astro Boy, and Tetsujin 28/Gigantor that were largely positive and optimistic shonen comics that only sometimes dabbled in darker subjects.

Dragonball didn't start 'til 1984. By that time there were *tons* of shonen comics starring boy heroes out there that weren't gekiga.

It wasn't just Dragonball.

Saint Seiya came out around the same time as DB and even though there was loss and darkness the heroes in that pretty much rose to the challenge. Trends changed. By the end of the 80s the original TMNT did gangbusters with the Japanese audience, and the mecha genre got bigger and more bright and shiney (in part To Sell Toys/Models/whatever) as well as the original direct to video boom that started in the 80s.

Kamen Rider's been mentioned, but the series ended up essentially on hiatus midway through the decade, replaced by Metal heroes which was leaps and bounds more upbeat (...most of the time.) After Black, they switched over to movies and the most unpopular of those was also the darkest.

This should be a bannable offense.

Super Sentai was also getting its start during the Rider hiatus that started in '75 and ended in '79.

is this like mangaverse spiderman or something like that?

considering that dragonball was coming off the goofy comedy that was dr.slump and even early dragonball was more of a comedy with action.....

Goku just stands out as the most unambiguously positive manga character in existence, with only Astro Boy coming close. The only other manga with that influence was Ashita no Joe.

>Basically, Kinnikuman Changed everything
Fixed that for you.

Kinnukuman was just manga written by Vince Russo.

It's a manga written in the style of Steven Ditko.

I'm sorry, but this is just coming off as having a small reference pool. He's A positive character, but hardly the most unambiguous or even the first.

For example, Lum from Urusei Yatsura had him beat by about six years. Gegege no Kitaro had an optimistic child hero, even though it was a horror manga, protecting humans in 1960. Kinnikuman, like mentioned, had comedy/action with a comedic idiot hero years before Dragonball did.

You've got to remember, Dragonball popped out in 1984. There'd been lighthearted, comedic, optimistic manga for kids for years before Toriyama. Hell, Toriyama's creation Arale herself beat Goku to the optimistic, lighthearted, absurdly strong comic action hero by about four years.

No, the mangaverse Spiderman was oddly the bright spot in a pile of cringe. You had a female kabuki make up dominatrix Punisher (no, I swear to god, I'm not kidding) the worst fucking drawn Ghost Rider, the avengers as power rangers, Iron man's sister and Kaiju Hulk (and X-men that were just kinda there?) and they were all mediocre at best or just cringe.

Mangaverse Spiderman, on the other hand, was kept simple and straight to the point: he's a ninja, last of the Spider Clan, his costume was fairly spot on, and there was more ninjay stuff going on but he was still Spiderman and mostly not a massive angst twink. Skottie Young drew most of the issues he appeared in.

I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean because Kinnikuman isn't bad and I assume you are talking about shit tier WCW Russo and not actually good tier WWF Russo. But nearly everything that was popular in Dragonball was first popular in Kinnikuman. The only thing that was super powered battle shounen before it was Ring ni Kakero which drew a lot of influence from Otoko Ippiki Gaki Daishou.

Gegege no Kitaro was written by a guy who served in WWII, knew the Japanese was shit and grateful that Americans stopped the military. The stories were also ones from his childhood, and the author actually lost an arm.

I feel like Kinnukuman is the hero we need, but don't deserve.

There's a big problem, I think, with people thinking that anime that was big in the 90s in America was worldshattering and genre defining in Japan.

I've heard people describe Gundam as the first serious mecha series and the first serious war series and Sailor Moon as the first real magical girl show, and Dragonball as the first show with energy blasts and transformations.

Dragonball as the first manga to star an optimistic hero's a new one on me.

>Otoko Ippiki Gaki Daishou
We clearly need to bring back delinquents and boxing in shonen.

Hajime no Ippo's right there.

>I feel like Kinnukuman is the hero we need, but don't deserve.
It unfortunately started the superhero battle shounen era but every series that came after it failed to live up to it, with the exception of Fist of the North Star and Sakigake Otokojuku which is basically Kinnikuman with characters from Fist of the North Star. The continuation series is also absolutely amazing.

People go with what they know, can't do nothing about it. The further you go back the more you realise everyone is derivative of everything before it, same in most media. I suspect only a handful of people give a shit about Otoko Ippiki Gaki Daishou despite how (technically) far reaching it's influence is.

I said Good Boxing, not Punch Harder and Yamato Damashii

So that's why MJ calls him tiger?

My eternal brother of impeccable taste. Boxing (or any sport) + delinquents = hit manga.

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This latest story arc has Ippo realizing that he fucked up by focusing too much on Punch Harder and Gatsu and not enough on defense and using his left.

He'll get back in the ring and he'll be much improved.

How deep does the rabbit hole goes?

Kangaroo was an actual American Spider-Man villain dude

You forgot EVA fantastic 4.

>Gundam
It's considered the first Real Robot anime. So it's a yes to that one.

>Sailor Moon
It's not even a first magical girl show. The first one was Sally the Witch. What Sailor Moon did was give a more sentai plot to it.

Shigeru Mizuki will forever be based in my opinion
IIRC he lived so long because he always got 8 hours of sleep and when asked about it he said something like "My peers called me lazy for doing it but jokes on them, they're all dead"

>Otoko Ippiki Gaki Daishou

Never heard of it. But, funnily enough, I've read Salaryman Kintaro.
Getter Robo may not be a Real Robot show, but it did the serious take long before Gundam did.

The problem is that this realization had happened fucking 50 volumes ago in the Karasawa defense

you both sound so fucking dull and boring

There is a difference between a series being mature/dark with death and consequences and a series trying to be more like a tv series/ drama.

>"My peers called me lazy for doing it but jokes on them, they're all dead"
kek
Getter is great but Mazinger doesn't get enough credit either
>first internal Super pilot
>Kouji has no angst whatsoever cultivating the hotblooded pilot
>Sayaka was a female who sorta did things even if she did them terribly even getting her own robot

Blame Kamogawa. If the Coach wasn't incompetent...

Anyhow, Morikawa's announced recently that the manga's only halfway done.

Don't forget he wrote books specifically done to shit on revisionists

It came out a year after Ashita no Joe and was WSJ first mega hit, kept the magazine afloat agsint the competition at the time. It was also the first confirmed instance of a manga in WSJ that was so popular that the author was asked to carry it on after it's planned ending, the second time that happened was in Fist of the North Star which was over a decade later. If you look at covers of WSJ from the 70s it is dominated by this one series.

It also inspired Masami Kurumada of Saint Seiya fame to become a mangaka (it also inspired him to become a delinquent so he dropped out of school and tried to be a hard geezer but realised he was shit at it and stopped lol) and he later became Motomiya Hiroshi's assistant. Other than Ring ni Kakero which drew from it Kurumada also drew a tribute series to it, Otokozaka. Hiroshi Motomiya was also friends with Tetsuo Hara and inspired him to be a mangaka. He also knew Buronson from his army days and Buronson wanted to draw manga, but could draw so Motomiya suggested he write it instead. Eventually WSJ teamed the two of them up and they made Fist of the North Star. Tetsuo Hara also drew a Otoko Ippiki Gaki Daishou tribute manga, Takeki Ryuusei.

The dude was hugely influential despite no one now knowing about him.

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First guy is being too dismissive but the second guy is right in that they didn't get Spider-Man and basically just wrote edgy fanfic.

From conception Spider-Mans character was in question
This manga was made in a time when superheroes as a concept was very new in japan
And saying shit like "feels like equal parts someone who doesn't understand super heroes as a concept, " really does a disservice to appreciating the varied genres explored in superheroes

I concede what you said about the super hero genre being new in Japan at the time, and let's be honest, Spider Man's original Amazing Fantasy story was more a cautionary tale than a cape yarn so having a hero who fucks up hard like Komori isn't necessarily straying from what happened to Peter...

But as others have pointed out nothing matters in Suffering Spider-Man. He tries to help, it fucks things up. He doesn't act, tragedy occurs. This kind of "I suck, you suck, the world sucks, everything you do amounts to nothing" disillusionment takes things too far, and goes from exploring a darker take of an extant character and instead just goes off in a direction where using a guy in a mask with spider powers just doesn't feel necessary. It's dragging the character concept along at that point for something entirely different.

My problem with Japanese Spiderman is that it's not even DareDevil, Punisher, or Watchmen levels of Dark.

It's Deer Hunter, All Quiet in the Western Front, Heart of Darkness levels of Darkness. It's the kind of story that Ditko wished he cold tell with Mr. A, if he wasn't an Objectivist fanatic.

Ch-Char?

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>Why's My Hero Academia the only franchise that actually--relatively speaking-- gets supers as a concept right in Japan?
Is that why it's so fucking boring?

Nah, it's boring because you read the story back when it was about ninjas.

How can you talk about Mazinger and not mention how absolutely based Boss is?

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>an extant character and instead just goes off in a direction where using a guy in a mask with spider powers just doesn't feel necessary. It's dragging the character concept along at that point for something entirely different.

It was emotional torture porn.

This is gonna sound kinda weird, but I miss the days of older anime where you had a few profoundly ugly dudes or--to be more fair to them-- distinct looking who were still indisputably heroes.

Of course your MC is going to look like a fashion model or a girl or both, but it's nice to see dudes like this jump into a robot instead of only Boy Band members.

My Hero Academia is boring because they make a big deal about superheros training at prep schools to get their licenses.

>The dude was hugely influential despite no one now knowing about him.
thats how it usually goes right?
look at Jack Kirby

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Mazinger was great, It had continuity when many other animes still followed the adventure of the week format.

>Why's My Hero Academia the only franchise that actually--relatively speaking-- gets supers as a concept right in Japan?
In what fucking sense? It's just another shonen garbage where the story focuses on a chump who gets lucky or is naturally gifted where he steamrolled the competition for a never ending amount of issues. The super hero shtick is just a different set of clothes. They don't even focus on the super shit, the actual bero society, or on any of the heroes. The core of the story is Deku and his bullshit, which is the least interesting part of the whole world.

>WSJ
I literally had to pause for a moment as I was trying to figure out why the manga was appearing in the Wall Street Journal.

DEEP
LORE

good thread

bump

What would happen if Yu's Spider-Man get the hold of symbiote?

Did this manga just forget what spiders are or something?

I feel this music would be appropriate for him
youtube.com/watch?v=lGcnHvkLRb0

The manga artist who made spiderman manga series, Ryoichi Ikegami, is now creating weird Japanese right wing fan fiction manga. In that manga Japan brings democracy to china, Teams up with chairman Xi and go to war with US and Korea. It's interesting to say the least, that mangaka who debuted with manga based on American hero, becomes mangaka with hateboner for US.

So Spider-Man's stand is a tiger?

You know all that shit Peter allows himself to go through during high school to protect his identity as Spiderman? Just replace spitballs and shoved into lockers with being kidnapped by crazy drunk drivers and having loved ones held at gunpoint, but also never getting a little Spidey revenge in afterwards like Peter usually did.

already with his base spider-man powers he's completely powerless in his world
i can't imagine the symbiote would really help
he'd defiantly be a lot more aggressive. feeling much less sorry about killing villains and maybe a lot more confident to enact justice.
but he'd probably end up killing someone he loved by his own hands when they agitate him

>what is the postwar period

he's just an artist
not a writer

considering the tone of the manga, symbiote would probably cause some sort of severe addiction so Yu could suffer even more after losing it. And Venom would be Yu's clone who would not only fuck up Spidey's superhero career, but his school life too

>Yu goes through clone saga
>its exactly the same

>wasn't Tiger/Bunny also about corporate sell outs as a problem in the super hero community?
Christ user, go watch it

>but wasn't Tiger/Bunny also about corporate sell outs as a problem in the super hero community
the advertisement thing was important to the series but mostly used so writers could put their 2 cents on the general entertainment industry and sponsorship
not really saying its evil or even good. just annoying most of the time

watch it the series, its good

And this is why Kirby needed Stan... His own writing makes no goddamn sense.

Classic Hulk is pretty angsty, he's basically a misanthrope.

Have anyone got a MEGA or magnet? I need to read it. All of it. I need the pain.

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Why were Japanese teens so depressed back then? Or was it something like the 80s-90s in the American comics, except earlier because no CCA?

>It's just another shonen garbage where the story focuses on a chump who gets lucky or is naturally gifted where he steamrolled the competition for a never ending amount of issues.
You didn't actually read the manga, did you? Because the entire point of Deku's character is that he's not actually out to beat anybody, nor is he that much better than any of his classmates. He just wants to help and save people even if it costs him, winning is never his top priority.

>that pirate
Oh shit, the censor pirate in the David statue manga is a reference to this?

Jap spiderman is What If Raskolnikov suddenly got spider powers. With all the consequences, but no Q2 whore wifu that will follow you to siberia.

Japanese teens back then were either born during WWII and watched their country lost in a huge way. There were also student rebellions happening around the 60s-70s because the youth didn't like the status quo.

To be fair, writing in Science Fiction never made any sense. It's all talk to look all sophisticated and no action. This is why Star Wars is far more popular than Star Trek. It's more action and line delivery than dialogue.

But it's always a goddamn fight when someone wants to use the Phoenix mode for some reason...

The 80s was the only time, aside from Taisho Period, when Japan did well. Too bad the bubble bursts and the economy crashed in the 90s and the country hasn't recovered since.

In my head I still don't fully believe that people don't know who Jack Kirby is. How can they not.

The pirate is the logo for Weekly Shounen Jump. I'm not certain why. It appears on all the covers and volume covers.

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>I liek da maverl movie where he do da quip!! too much talkie in book just wan punchies

Well Spiderman's Robot is based on a leopard, so yes?

General Audiences want to see humans fighting space aliens. The dialogue in Science Fiction is terrible because it's always repetitive and made up.

The tiger is meant to be a typical "Humans are ferocious Beasts" symbolism.

>general audiences are retarded
I know
youtube.com/watch?v=8u6XE4UaggA

Science Fiction is too ambitious for it's own good and requires giving the creator total control over the budget, script, and special effects to work. Some creators need executives and advisors to reign them in.

This is why it works well in comics compared to movies and television there's a much lower risk. And it's not like there isn't an audience for this stuff

This is no shounen boy, no shounen

No, I like dialogue that makes sense rather than being some pseudo philosophical wanking. Why would Darkseid compare himself to an Earth animal?
New Gods being incomprehensible is not an opinion, it's a fact. That's why it failed to catch on despite Kirby being a legend back then.

If we're going to get autistic about it it's because this was written for an Earth audience to read. It's the same reason Tolkien translated hobbit names. If a page of Darkeid calling himself a force of nature at the core of everything is pseudo philosophical to you then your reading level is the same as a second grader.

ONE PUUUUUUNCH

It reads like a second grader trying to sound smart. But it's a comic for children after all.

The problem is that Darkseid and Apokolkips are much better by making their boasts more theatrical and full blown biblical.

youtube.com/watch?v=5FXsFXFtHSg

Spider angst

Spider angst

Japanese Spider Man

You've just hit the jackpot!

The cartoons made Darkseid better by giving him good lines.

Be happy it didn't turn into 3 volumes of Mary Jane being gangraped.

They grew up during WW2 of course they would conceive f'd up stories.

Well shit.

Where can I read this japonese Spider-Man? Should I read from right to left or the regular left to right?

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>Nice commentary on how everything you do is wrong.

Sounds like my life, desu.

what the fuck

>"I could save this woman, but..."
>"Fuck it. Unleash the tigers."
>The End

B-based?

It wouldn't be Kazumasa without any rape, or did you not know about Rape Namek?

It's better written than anything Garth Ennis and Mark Millar can come up with.

Any chance of this ever getting a hardcover release like Devilman did? If not, where could I read this?

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I'm scared to ask.

Why? The Rape seems better handled in Japanese Spiderman than anything Marvel came up with during that time. Rape is used to show that humans are just animals. There's no moral fag beating up a Rapist.

>Danny Torch
DELET THIS

Main heroine in his series Wolf-Guy gets kidnapped by the main antagonist. She proceeds to get gang-raped by him and his goons for like 20-30 chapters. It's a monthly series so taking breaks into consideration it was a sudden 3 years of watching a character get graphically raped until she loved it. She was rescued in the very last chapter.

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>why isn't this japanese spiderman isn't like Peter parker?

Im gald that he got only a cameo in spiderverse, he probably going to ruin by Americans trying "fix" his character.

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Danger Level: GOD is wrong

It should be a fat, bald guy.

I remember seeing characters getting raped and then loving it in Hentai. I think the logic behind it is that they fully embrace their perverted desires.

Here, have some fun
mega.nz/#F!OromDahb!ULbCaDOtFuN0faAh-CnfTw

mangadex.org/title/3509/spider-man

I'd say it's a toss up between Dou Haguro and Motomu Robahata. Fat-Man should be dragon, everything else can get pushed down.

My problem with this is that it shoved Shin Devilman into the original 5 volumes and Shin Devilman was fucking shit, even if it did have that chapter which explained why Hitler hated the jews.

Thanks user!

fuck i hope not, the seven seas devilman was a fucking abomination.

God it just depresses me how fucking bad it was.

I-it was? In what way? I read Devilman for the first time on the hardcover release and didn't seem like anything was wrong

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I didn't know this until I saw the copy my friend had. Basically Shin Devilman was written quite some time after Devilman originally ended and it is a bunch of stand alone chapters which are meant to happen between volume 2 and 3, they don't add anything and are tonally vastly different from the original Devilman manga. There's also a few extra pages added into the final fight at the end which originally was quite abrupt, albeit on purpose, but the ending remains the same. It isn't terrible but I really dislike Shin Devilman so I wasn't a fan.

She was drugged by the bad guy during the rape.

>Japanese writers tend to be more cynical than Western ones when it comes to internal struggles. Basically, they weren't afraid to "go there" in terms of characterization
Doesn% it mean they're actually less cynical and more empathetic? They're not afraid to show more expressive and realistic internal struggles

no it means western creators are more escapist

ok homie so,
>the translation is super spotty and the language used is really poor, for example in the online translation available since like 2007, has fantastic and tension building dialogue, while the official release has none of that.

>Its not actually the original Devilman like it states, it's a revision that completely ruins the pacing of the original story, cuts a bunch of content, has stuff out of order and like others have said, pushes in Shin Devilman. Think Star Wars films.

>Even though Shin is fairly shit, the Seven Seas release makes no mention of Shin's actual writers, which feels shitty.

>the language, genuinely, its so fucking poor and ruins so much of the experience. It may sound like a nitpick but it genuinely does take away from the experience badly.

Marvel did to a censored release in the 90s big it seems like everything has been released by a few guys online

>mangakakalot.com/manga/spiderman

I liked the release and never read the fan translations so I can’t really judge, personally I thought it was good and kept the energy of the comic fairly well sure the Sjin stuff was shit added for padding but it does give a few more chapters with the cast before everything goes to shit

Well the firebird supposedly is incredibly dangerous and puts a lot of force and heat in the team so it can’t be used light (doesn’t stop them though) regularly the god Phoenix can’t use its full arsenal unless everyone’s person G machines are locked in so they’re sitting ducks when ones not locked in, they get extra weapons because the villains caught on to they’re shit eventually they’re trying to be a team that follows orders and have a lotta tensions since they’re basically teenagers with issues throughout the show dealing with ruthless terrorists so shit happens

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So is the coach in Hippo really an incompetent fuck?

Pretty much. He's good for the basics, but his idea for teaching Ippo how to handle hard punches was "Push your face into them so that they can't extend all the way and you only take half damage".

Half the time, instead of giving advice or offering a tactical scenario, he just goes "PUSH FORWARD WITH GUTS! PUNCH MORE! PUNCH HARDER!"

You mean like how you're trying hard to present yourself as smart?

>Danny torch
holy shit that makes the image

wew lad

Go to war with the US? Did they forgot what happened last time or are they still salty?

you are forgetting one significant little detail....

Their parents were into full ''japan super dickery mode'', because they saw their own children as overprivileged because since they werent born during the war and post war crisis of the late 40s and 50's, parents grew resentful of them having to live a living hell.

and the sad reality (not even trying to be /pol/ meme), is that the japanese were pretty damn colectivistic in this aspect, and they were, not joking here, borderline abusive towards their children, school education wasn't any better, with adults slapping and beating children and teens all around, and parents being so overly harsh and demanding ridiculous high expectations, and the fact that specially back then, japan saw individuality as selfish, in other words, it really sucked being a kid and teenager during the 60s and 70s, the adults were the douchebags really, or at least in the very beginning, so it was no surprise that their children rebelled at their awful parenting skills, and then of course the japanese old fucks were like, ''those disrespectful disgraceful stupid kids!!'' because nobody put them trough their stubborn skulls, that maybe, is not a good idea to making the life of your offspring so damn miserable, just because you had it rough.

but of course the media there demonize the youths and portray their parents as ''DINDU NUTHINWRONG'' and that slapping them and beating them all around like they were animals, was ''good parenting'', and the teens angst was just ''selfish whining'', because nuance was a concept so alien to them.

ONLY this year japan FINALLY made it illegal to hit your son in the face as ''discipline'', what does that tell you?, the sad reality is that japan was rampant in child abuse and bad parenting.

But of course, you will dismiss this as me being a /pol/tard.

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With that in mind, it's no wonder kids raging against "stupid adults" or shows starring mostly thirteen to sixteen year olds outdoing grownups is so common in Japanese pop culture.

Actually I can agree with you, Japan seems to have a massive amount of media that portrays kids as spoiled deranged biker gangs, why are Asian countries so anti-individualists anyways?

It can probably all be traced back to Confucius or the guys who inspired him.

Fun fact: Another offset of the war was Japan collectively developing a huge cute “Kawai” culture mostly because of a high self - victimization fetish that grew out of getting curbed stomped and nuked so hard they went from a imperialistic empire to a western bitch the atomic bomb pretty much created hello kitty seriously they got absolutely fucked by WW2

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I think its simpler than that; violent as shit media is more popular in times of peace, and shit like animal crossing is more popular in turns of trouble. Going all the way to the most pointlessly cute shit they can is pretty obvious in a country reeling from war.

they trying to take it it back

Actually, kawaii culture started out as a way for female teenagers to rebel against the societal demands placed on them.

Being 'cute' was punk as fuck, comparatively speaking, because they were expected to be quiet, beautiful, and be objects to be admired in the background. All of a sudden girls started rebelling with cutesy curved kanji, dressing in ways to draw attention to themselves, acting in a kawaii manner, etc.

It wasn't quite on the level of whipping out your bra and setting fire to it, but it was still a huge thing to do considering Japan's ultraconservative society.

and fuck i didnt even talk about japanese tiger moms......

Go ahead, if we can talk about kawaii as a rebellion against the spirit of Yamato Nadeshiko refinement, we can talk about tiger moms.

>But of course, you will dismiss this as me being a /pol/tard

You forgot to whine about jews and trannies you fucking false flagging retard

oh no, here comes mr nanny.

You might call me a /pol/tard for this but I don't like nannys

Japanese concepts of heroes are very different, even more in the 70's.

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Yu is like a hyper-exaggerated version of Ditko's Peter

To have my boy Tetsuya murder american soldiers while invading the american base was kino.

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Nigga, Takuya isn't Peter Parker and he embodied Spider Man even with his wildly different origin and extra moves.

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Takuya isn't Komori.

do you have a single source to back this up?

Who would you cast for a adaptation of this spider man?

Keanu Reeves

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