Why does everyone now praise AOSTH and take potshots at SatAM?

>You had Sonic: the hero who could run fast, Tails: the smart, useful sidekick and Robotnik: the evil, funny fat man using his wacky animal machines to try and stop them annoying him.
I don't think SatAM was that far off from the games. You still had Sonic, Tails, and Robotnik. You just also had the freedom fighters and Snively.
And while Scratch and Grounder were kind of in the Genesis games if you count those badniks who resembled them (or Mean Bean Machine where they were in it for real as characters of their own with the same names too), they were also somewhat outside what the games covered.
And if the random badniks looking like Grounder or roosters count as them being in the games then I'd also count Uncle Chuck as a variation of the silver robot hedgehog Sonic fights on the Death Egg in Sonic 2.

I'm 32 and enjoying SatAM episodes right now as I post in this thread.
Like I said, it's not tryhard / edgy like people seem to believe. It's more like the odds are always against them, which is kind of refreshing for a cartoon series with an ace protagonist archetype like Sonic.
They struggle and barely get by just enough to live another day, and the action's enthralling because Robotnik is actually competent and already won before the series began. Kind of reminiscent of (real / original) Star Wars, ragtag rebels against a fully dominant organized empire.

For post Adventure fans, AOSTH can be enjoyed ironically as a goofy irreverent take on the universe. SatAm, on the other hand, comes across as a weird American rethinking of the franchise like The Super Mario Bros movie, Captain N, or the darkstalkers cartoon.

The Super Mario Bros movie was great.
Absolutely nothing like the games, but great nonetheless.

I’m saying you JUST had Sonic, Tails and eggman. Everyone else existing made it feel less and less like a sonic game. Suddenly Tails isn’t useful anymore, Sonic is just the muscle to the freedom fighter’s guerilla war instead of a hedhehog who can run kinda fast, and Eggman doesn’t use gigantic wacky animal robots to stomp them to death.

I’m not saying it’s bad, but people hate it because it’s not especially like either classic or modern sonic, while AOSTH is to Sonic what BTBATB is to Batman

Oh I agree, but in a world where the Charles Martinet Mario has become such a definite version of the character I'm sure its a strange sight for people.

Amy actually originated from a Sonic manga.

I don't care what anyone says, Dennis Hopper was on point in this:
youtube.com/watch?v=EqWAA2iwZxk

Yeah, but nobody here actually read that when it came out and we're talking about characters from the games, with Sonic CD being the Amy originating game.
The people who do know about Amy being there longer than others think mostly knew about it because they owned Sega CDs.

>I wasn't alive back when this thing happened
>but let me regurgitate something from wikipedia and pretend it isn't common knowledge
God, summer can't end soon enough.

What are you talking about? Someone in this thread said they didn't think Amy was around back then. Stop looking for reasons to complain. I was born in '86 and played Sonic CD.

Here:
>I don’t think Amy existed yet.
So I don't get why you're complaining about it being common knowledge that shouldn't be mentioned when that user didn't know about it.

Did the Sega CD bomb over here in the US?

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Oh look, more children.

Not a lot of systems were sold.
What's your problem? Calm down you weirdo.

5 days off apparently.
But the real reason was just because they created Sally first in the states and was so autistic about her they called Amy "Princess Sally" in the US Manuel.

No. It was more like:
>>PRINCESS SALLY! (Ft. Sonic and Tails, the Freedom Fighters).

Rotor and Bunnie barely had any episodes and screentime dedicated to them.

AoSTH is the Sonic 2 of the Sonic series while SatAM is the Sonic CD.

Because the writing was much worse.
The very nature of the premise meant Robotnik could never one-up Sonic (he conquered everything else already, there's nothing left to take), undermining all tension. The show was never consistent about threats and never actually bothered to show the cast in situations where they had to be creative to survive. Most of the cast barely exists and the characters who do get screentime are infuriating.

Meanwhile AoStH has a small but well executed and beloved cast and is almost nothing but "how will Sonic solve this problem?" Instead of pulling rings out of his ass or just running a little faster, he comes up with ideas like burying a notice for a doctor in the future to send him a time machine, putting on disguises and mocking his antagonists, or, sometimes, Sonic actually screws up and someone else resolves the conflict. It's not hard to see why one's far more entertaining once you're out of elementary school.

Sonic is a blank slate to work with, as Sega I'm sure did not want him to have any elaborate backstory for the show to give him. Him even having an uncle was pushing it. So most of the character development was pushed onto the next biggest character, Sally.
I think what people don't like is having Sonic exist in any kind of ongoing medium where a backstory is needed. They want self contained stories that can be viewed in any order as simple as they can be.

>>PRINCESS SALLY! (Ft. Antoine and Dulcy, the Freedom Fighters, with special guest stars Sonic and Tails)
Fixed.

AoStH existed in a fever dream where aside from Robotnik's little lab on the hill nothing else really was consistent. Sonic and Tails had the same interchangeable personality, with characters who did not look like Sonic characters at all that constantly interacted with them. John Baldry was a brilliant voice actor who used his talents to fill a void of a character who was just generic angry man.

>he conquered everything else already, there's nothing left to take
They showed you exactly what he could take. Did you forget about Uncle Chuck or the half-roboticized rabbit girl? They had their last little refuge in the knothole and were always under threat of being captured and turned into robot slaves.
The tension aspect was better than most shows so I'm kind of surprised you would pick that of all things to criticize. They were always on edge having to sneak around with foot soldiers everywhere looking for them.

>AoStH existed in a fever dream where aside from Robotnik's little lab on the hill nothing else really was consistent.
In terms of setting, yeah, and that was to its benefit. The point of the show was placing predicaments in front of the cast, the world morphing to fit today's conflict works just fine in that context.
>Sonic and Tails had the same interchangeable personality
Not really. They even play on Tails being much more timid and less arrogant several times.
>John Baldry was a brilliant voice actor who used his talents to fill a void of a character who was just generic angry man.
This is how I know you've got no idea what you're talking about. Tons of care went into their Robotnik, from detailed notes on the character ref sheet to consistent syntax. He was written, animated and voiced terribly well given the budget.

You also forgot Scratch and Grounder, who were so enduringly adored the games basically copied them.

SatAM and Archie are tone deaf slog fests but I appreciate the effort put into trying to add more depth to what was such a confined canon at the time

>They showed you exactly what he could take. Did you forget about Uncle Chuck or the half-roboticized rabbit girl?
You mean the shit that happened before the show starts?

I'm talking functionally, as a narrative. You can't have Robotnik take Knothole or the show ends, but since he conquered everywhere else there's never a sense that Sonic can actually fail in any way. At best he can reclaim something and lose it again soon after (like, hey, Chuck). It's flawed from the outset.

>The tension aspect was better than most shows
I really hope you meant "most saturday morning video game cartoons."

AoStH was a weekly aired program over SatAM's weekend only slot which the former garnered far more views and success. That success in turn gave Sega the idea for Mean Bean Machine, and use of that Robotnik for some western box art.

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And Underground was "Sonia the Hedgehog"

>Scratch and Grounder
They had no identity beyond representing one more instance of the bumbling idiot comic relief antagonist duo archetype which was fairly popular throughout the 90s (e.g. Team Rocket or Bulk and Skull).

You could have had Robotnik take Knothole and only Sonic, Tails, and Sally make it out with everyone else getting turned into robots. That wouldn't end the show. They would just be even more fucked than they were to begin with and would need to camp out in some polluted shithole Robotnik territory to continue their freedom fighting.

Why was SatAM considered dark for kids shows? For that matter, how'd it get the name of SatAM anyway? Is it supposed to stand for something?

Also the "protagonists can't really ever lose because the show would end" complaint could be raised against any action show ever made. Do you think the A-Team was bad and lacked tension because they weren't ever going to be killed either?

You sure like reducing characters to the bare bone basics when you don't care for them, don't you user? As typical as you'd like to call them, they were better characterized than the Freedom Fighters.

>Why was SatAM considered dark for kids shows?
The villain already won before the show begins, and the heroes are generally outclassed by him and can only scrape together minor sabotage type victories against him. So the pessimism of having evil in power and good being much less well off creates a sense of "darkness."
Also the roboticizing was pretty dark. The Robotnik empire took these good sentient creatures with personalities and families and replaced their flesh with robot parts, ultimately erasing their sense of self and turning them into mindless slaves who might gain back brief moments of horrified lucidity before reverting to their drone state.

I don't hate Scratch and Grounder. But I'm not reducing them either. They seriously do not have any sort of actual identity of their own. They're just a copy and paste use of the bickering henchman duo bit.

Saturday Morning. Couldn't just call it Sonic the Hedgehog.

>Also the "protagonists can't really ever lose because the show would end" complaint could be raised against any action show ever made.
Okay first that's nonsense, there are shows that let their protagonists lose. Second, you're quoting a post where I explained what the problem was (there's no illusion of tension because the show refused to allow tertiary losses in favor of hyping up the villain) and ignoring it, pretending I'm saying something completely different. I don't care that he can't lose, I'm saying there's no tension when he can't realistically lose more within the framework of the show.

>Is it supposed to stand for something?

Put 2 and 2 together.

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>Why was SatAM considered dark for kids shows?
Because the color palette is literally dark.
Also intense autism, same as the shit you see on TvTropes.

When SatAM ended in '95, its elements gradually took over the Archie comic.

>They seriously do not have any sort of actual identity of their own.
I want you to explain Grounder and Bunnie from AoStH and SatAM to me and actually try to tell me AoStH's cast is the one without identity. Almost everything even vaguely interesting about the FFs is from the comics.

They could lose plenty. They're basically in the same situation as the original Star Wars scenario. Just because the villain is in power and you're a ragtag team of rebels doesn't mean there aren't any stakes or there's nothing to lose.
>there's no illusion of tension because the show refused to allow tertiary losses in favor of hyping up the villain
SatAM had losses. Sonic had Uncle Chuck with him and was close to getting him back home to have him recover like Bunnie in that one episode. At the very end it was the opposite of what you're describing. Their hopes were dashed and they *didn't* win despite having looked like they were going to.
In any event, A-Team point still stands. SatAM didn't give you any more of a sense nothing mattered because they would always win any more than A-Team did. In both cases you still get involved in the episodes and feel tension not knowing how they're going to get out of the shit they're in even though also in both cases the protagonists are never caught and killed.

>Also the roboticizing was pretty dark. The Robotnik empire took these good sentient creatures with personalities and families and replaced their flesh with robot parts, ultimately erasing their sense of self and turning them into mindless slaves who might gain back brief moments of horrified lucidity before reverting to their drone state.
When you say it like that it sure sounds grim. But then you remember it's literally a robot beam that turns funny animals into ANGRY robot versions of themselves and any sense of dread evaporates.

Nah, I felt bad for Uncle Chuck. You would do if you had a soul.

You would *too

A better question is, why won't SatAMfags just let it go?
The damn cartoon has been dead for over two decades. It's not coming back.

Nowadays you can't just kinda like both. You can only choose to absolutely love one and absolutely hate the other. It just so happens SatAM's turn is over, now it's AOSTH's turn to be on top.

>Point out that the only way Sonic can "lose" in the scenario of the show is if he suddenly regains something and then loses it again, aka a return to status quo.
>He can totally lose, look at [literally the exact same example]
I can't tell if you're being a dick or you're actually this stupid.

If that was the case people wouldn't also like Boom and the OVA.

SatAM Sonic was the worst Sonic of them all.

Because some people have nostalgia making fun of AoStH and Sonic Underground (especially annotated and ytp versions) that when it came down to watching SonicSatam (which was hyped up as the greatest Sonic cartoon in existence and deep and edgy and sophisticated) that when they watched it was just another generic 90s action show, nothing bad but nothing amazing (and not enough meme potential). Because of this there is some hostility towards the show.

I for one appreciate that we got AOSTH and SatAM at the same time

Because Sally and the Freedom Fighters take away from Sonic.

Sonic should just be Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Metal Sonic, and Robotnik (I REFUSE to call him Eggman. I am taking a stand damn it.)

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People like AOSTH for the fun carefree nostalgia and memes.

We like the OVA because it’s the only one to get the settings and action right for everyone (not just Sonic)

Boom is liked because it’s self deprecating and hates itself. It recognises how truly autistic all things Sonic are and embraces it with loving arms. Plus it mocked Chris-chan.

Satam and Underground will only ever be remembered for replacing the actual sonic cast with weird fill ins that had no reason to be there istead of the og characters.

...and then there’s X

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SatAM didn't have the best redhead

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SatAM sucks dick.

Into the Sonicverse when?

Doesn’t mean anything.

He is and always will be Robotnik to true Sonic the Hedgehog Fans.

Sonic generations 2

You suck Dick!
*unzips dick*
Now suck!

We don't pretend it's the best version of the franchise though. Hell we don't even think it's necessarily good, but you have faggots who think SatAM is rubber best part or important to the franchise

Already happened

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Wont say no to a free cock

Underground was a good theme song and nothing else because nobody has ever watched the show beyond that.

Jesus Christ, is autism of this scale even possible?

Sure thing, Dobson.

You right here explains why Sonic being too up its own ass is not the best Sonic. Sonic being fun is the best kind of Sonic.

Sonic SatAM was America trying to make their own version of The Raccoons, with Sonic haphazardly tacked on for good measure because he was considered "cool".

Someone have those pictures of the original design concepts with Dr. Robotnik looking more like a Don Bluth troll?

Here you go.

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Attached: Robotnikconceptart.jpg (1280x986, 465K)

Yes, this one.

Scary

Given the premise of the series at its core, Sonic generally works better with a lighter tone than a darker more complex one

youtube.com/watch?v=VwJ41cq0c74

Because Pingas and Dr. Robotnik

Eggman from the games comes up with the brilliant idea to form an alliance with versions of him from other dimensions. With an army of Eggmans/Robotniks from different continuities by his side, they start taking multiple worlds by storm. To counter the dark coalition of mad scientists, Sonic rallies up other Sonics from across continuities to take them down, but they all have to learn to get along first.

unironically this
The sheer absurdity and memeability of AoStH has made it way more memorable and entertaining in hindsight while SatAM ultimately comes off as just another semi-dark action adventure cartoon

They are hoping for the holy day when Sega scraps their version of Sonic and revive SatAM as the face of the franchise.

It sounds like I'm exaggerating, but there are SatAMfags that actually think this.

The official Sonic show rankings.

OVA
AoStH
Japanese Sonic X.
Sonic Boom.
SatAM.
4kids Sonic X.
Sonic Underground.

>Boom is liked because it’s self deprecating and hates itself.
what an embarassing thing to write.

>ho no, a shitty doodle the artist did to warm up his drawing
it really put everything back into perspectives!

Reactionary retards mad at the Nostalgia critic video.

SatAM is nothing but a shitty abandoned environmentalist cartoon DiC pulled out of it's trash can, and replaced it's evil Warlock with Robotnik, changed Sally from an elf girl to a squirrel, and added Sonic and Tails to make it worth anything.

Attached: Sallyacornearlydesign.jpg (1234x1600, 410K)

>more "doodle" that prove everything

>Satam and Underground will only ever be remembered for replacing the actual sonic cast with weird fill ins that had no reason to be there istead of the og characters.

What cast was there to even replace at the time? Everyone important was present.

ssssshhhhh

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Whoa is that Zonic with NegaEggman?
And.... is that Super Scourge fighting Fleetway Super Sonic?! Duuude.

>What cast was there to even replace at the time?
Obvious he's upset SatAM didn't have the sophisticated depth of unique and complex characters like Scratch and Grounder.

And? It’s still good.

It’s been that way since the early 2000’s when Toonzone now called Anime Super Hero, was the Reddit of animation.

sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Sally_(SatAM)/Gallery

I thought it was the opposite. People loved SatAM for actually trying while AoStH is remembered as a cringy shitshow for people like Chris-chan.

I got some Preparation H for that Butthurt

>AoStH is remembered as a cringy shitshow for people like Chris-chan
How would AoStH be more appealing to Chris-Chan? He'd obviously prefer the more narrative-focused show.

He thinks SatAM tried, so clearly he's really just a ween

AoStH is funny at any age
SatAM is boring once you're not 12.

The show had at least a lot of marvelous hand painted backgrounds put into it. Especially the Robotropolis sets.

I can feel you seething from here.

Absolutely. My gripe is with the dreadful color choices, but that's a result of reactions to the pilot being "too cheerful."

In underground his partners are Sonia and Manic instead of Tails or Knuckles. In Satam they’re Sally, Bunnie, Antoine etc while Tails doesn’t even play a role and Knuckles is nowhere to be seen. Let alone any of the advance/adventure characters

The show ended before they could introduce Knuckles. The whole reason why SatAM was made was because Sega was not happy with AoStH and told DiC to start over. For a time they were happy with it, considering it was featured in their australian theme park.

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>Sega
ABC. If Sega was unhappy with AoStH it would have been scrapped.
Also you're ignoring user's point that the existing game cast was sidelined instead of embraced and propped up with original supporting characters.

What existing game cast? Sonic CD hadn't arrived in the states at that point yet. All that they had besides Sonic and Tails were the little animal friends which were the foundations of what became the Freedom Fighters.

I mean, that’s admittedly true for Satam but underground came out after adventure.

Underground was a bowl of shit that seemed like it was trying to cash in on the Disney musical fad that the late 90's was being flooded with. By that point it would had been ideal to return to SatAM with more game characters to use, but the dumb fucks decided to make a whole new show instead.

>What existing game cast?
>Tails or Knuckles
>In Satam they’re Sally, Bunnie, Antoine etc while Tails doesn’t even play a role

Why do you keep ignoring things people already told you? How many ways must "Tails (for both) and Knuckles (for Underground) were sidelined for OCs instead of properly utilized" be restated before you actually address it instead of talking around it?

Refer to the post above you. I make no excuses for Underground being terrible.

The second one’s not even him, it’s an user backing up how Knuckles and Tails are wrongfully sidelined for ocs.

You're still talking around the issue. The game characters were overshadowed by mediocre OCs in both shows.

We've grown up and can appreciate genuine comedy more than the Sally cartoon, which took itself too seriously.
SATAM had some elements from the games in the pilot episode, like Eggman's buzz robots.
AOSTH had more elements down the line: Chaos Emeralds, Pinball Fortress (including the Scorpion boss), some other zones from the games.

...Yeah, I know. I'm quoting them as a direct reply to the first user's question. It's to illustrate that question's been answered several times already.

SatAM sucked with both characters and story.
At least AoStH had a lively cast and a more consistent tone.

Tails was utilized more in the second season to help out Sonic, and if the show had continued would had probably become equal. Amy and Knuckles hadn't made the scene yet before the show was cancelled.

Underground should have had Tails, but I have no idea why not. In fact, the entire Chaotix should have been present. While Knuckles did make a cameo it seemed to lack the floating island and master emerald, so I have no clue.

SATAM was shit because Sonic would get out of situations with dumb asspulls that would ruin drama or tension. Plus, the rest of the cast of characters were boring and never developed.

People give AOSTH more credit because asspulls were purposefully humorous and the characters were more memorable by how crazy they were.

SATAM is for 90s furries that have low standards because they never watched any decent action/adventure cartoons.

>which took itself too seriously.
Oh yeah? Are we going to look back at other shows like Clone Wars, Samurai Jack, Gargoyles, and Avatar and cringe at them for taking themselves seriously? I want every cartoon to be silly and whacky, because having a moment of things getting serious is just too unbelievable for me.

What the hell are you talking about. AoStH was just a shitty Bugs Bunny with a low budget. Animaniacs and Duck Tales did the slapstick zany comedy much better.

The difference is that Samurai Jack wasn't a little blue guy that announced how it was JUICE AND JAM TIME when he went into battle.

Why don't you just go ahead, and admit that you don't like the Freedom Fighters and/or the Underground cast? Just say it, there's nothing wrong about it. That's much better than calling any character you dislike as "OC", despite with the fact that every single character existent to this world can be technically considered as OC.

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And yet he still had moments where he had character beyond the 90's shtick.

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More like Cuck Tales.

You'd prefer, what, amputation and surgical modification? This is a kid's cartoon, not System Shock.

So, is there any explanation to why DIC decided to change Eggman's classic, easy to draw design into what it was in AoSTH/SatAm/Underground?

No? I loved Bunnie and Antoine in the comics. If the show's writing wasn't trash I'd likely enjoy them there as well. I'm just saying user had been talking around the issue of core characters being overshadowed by characters original to the show (or OCs, as you may call them).

But I'm sure that pretending I'm hostile to the characters is preferable to the idea that I just think the shows had mixed up priorities and bad scripts, so please, ignore my post and pretend I only call characters original to an adaptation OCs because I hate them ever so much.

Bruv, they did this to every videogame cartoon they made: King Koopa lacking the red hair, Cyan King Hippo, Billy and Jimmy wielding swords and wearing masks

The Bowser thing was because they only had the SMB1 Sprite to go off of when they started the show, hence why the Koopalings were mostly on model when they turned up (they had promo art available).

I watched the entire series and it was just abysmal.

I would say it’s because everyone in the Sonic fandom sucked it off so much over the years that when people who didn’t grow up watching it saw it just thought it was fairly average.

And this thing right here:
youtube.com/watch?v=rLV2D05fgj4

>Disney and WB being able to pull off physical comedy better than DiC

Quelle surprise

Wasn't the first episode of the Double Dragon cartoon fairly standart game adaptation cartoon and then from episode 2 it completely shifts gears?

It shifts gears 10 minutes in to install an OC who's basically buff SatAM Robotnik, right down to being voiced by Jim Cummings and having a void to shove people he deposed into.

Ben Hurst and Pat Alee weren't very creative.

>everyone

Only on Yea Forums and Sonic forums where degenerates and underage meme-spouting autists lurk. The Saturday show is obviously the better made cartoon.

>Yea Forums and Sonic forums
You mean the places that jerked SatAM off the hardest for years?

No, SatAM was "jerked off the hardest for years" decades before Yea Forums and internet memes were even a twinkle in the autism community's eye.

No, Jim Cummings didn't voice Shadow Master. Jim Byrnes did.

>Why does everyone now praise AOSTH and take potshots at SatAM?
The fuck? Most praise that cartoon.

I love the first season of Sonic SatAM but I'm not as big on the second season. The production values were noticeably lower and there was more of a focus on 'action' and less on the characters. Some of characters in season 2 would have been better off left out all together.

People like to talk about Ben Hurst like he was the God of the show, but he was only really hands on with season 2. He only did one episode of the first season. While, granted, it was a very good episode, there were plenty of other good episodes written by different people.

Robotnik is funny at any age. The show itself is really dull otherwise. Sonic and Tails are about as fun and interesting as the cast of the Get-Along Gang.

People only like AoSth because of the YouTube Poops. Nobody is around to defend Satam anymore because most of that audience is now in their late 30s, have jobs, and don't have time to waste talking about children's cartoons on the internet anymore.

>Some of characters in season 2 would have been better off left out all together.

It probably would have improved if they just killed off Rotor and Antoine between seasons. Whatever charm they might have had was completely gone. Dulcy, too. What an obnoxious character. I can't imagine anybody liked her.

Yea Forums's been around since 2006 and people were talking about how amazingly dark and deep SatAM was even back on old sites like Fireball20xl and the like. Try again.

My mistake, they're easy to mix up.
Regardless, it was a weirdly similar character, kinda like how Weisman keeps recycling Xanatos.

>Yea Forums's been around since 2006

>implying 2006 was a long time ago

sure is underage in here

Best take in the thread. AoStH was less ambitious but was far more competent at what it was trying to do.

The only divide in the quality of Sonic-related stuff is this: If it was made before 1998, it's good. If it was made after 1998, it's bad. The one and only exception to this was Sonic Mania, of course.

That's not my point. You're saying decades when even just the dedicated cartoon board popped up 13 years after SatAM premiered, just at 11 after it ended. Sonic forums that are even older than Yea Forums almost unanimously praised it. Opinion didn't start to shift until decent quality streaming video options became available. Using Sonic forums and Yea Forums as boogiemen when they were the places that constantly sang the show's praises for years is stupid.

Why were Japanese companies so terrible at telling Americans what their characters were like?

If that was true someone would eventually bring forth a good argument for the show's writing quality when it's put to task instead of falling back on "dude it felt so epic/dark" and "kids just don't know maaan, they just spew memes." SatAM gets shit because the scripts were lacking, the characters were poorly utilized and it replaces elements from the source material seemingly without purpose. It's just not a very good show despite its positive qualities.

If you think I'm wrong, talk to me about the writing of individual episodes, about characterization, about pacing, actually give an argument instead of whining about people who don't agree with you.

Real answer
Because it doesn't have the popular game characters
Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Chaotix, even Metal Sonic

Noone of them are in the show

And Tails might as well be a completely different character

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>boogiemen

Nothing to do with boogiemen. Yea Forums and Sonic forums are a hive of people with mental disorders, period. Always have been. SatAM was very popular in the 90s among young people who were into it because it was relatively new and they were relatively young. most normal people don't continually discuss childhood shows on forums or chan boards once they reach a certain age. If there were any people talking about it in 2006, they probably had mental problems themselves, no different from any other Sonic fan (and, indeed, if they were posting on Yea Forums, this was most certainly true). However, seeing as those people don't seem to post here much anymore, I can only assume they all finally grew up, or they simply died. And since there is no virus that infects only Sonic fans (yet...life does find a way, after all), I would go with the former.

Faxing art across the Pacific is hard.
These things were made cheap and sloppy for licensing money and advertising, they just didn't care most of the time.

By the time streaming became available, everybody's perceptions of the SatAM characters had been skewed by a decade's worth of Archie comics, so the show itself lacked in comparison.

Who cares, the only reason to like Sonic past the age of 12 is nostalgia. Nothing in the series has any real merit to speak of and any attempt at trying to say "MY Sonic was good, it's YOUR Sonic that sucks" is 100% pure nostalgiafaggotry. Well, party nostalgia, but definitely faggotry.

"Videogame adapters are given an abstract concept, a handful of do-nots and a middle finger."

Shadow didn't exist until '01

Amy and the Chaotix didn't exist either. The only characters that existed were pretty much Sonic, Tails, and Robotnik.

>Backpedals into "ANYONE WHO WOULD TALK ABOUT IT NOW IS INSANE THEREFORE MY YOUNG SELF IS CORRECT"
God you're petulant, aren't you?

SatAM gets shit for the same reason Sonic Adventure or any other version of Sonic gets shit :Not muh Sonic. Quality has absolutely nothing to do with it. Sonic fans enjoy the taste of shit, regardless. If SatAM were worse than it is, it would have even more fans.

>thinks anybody has as much emotional investment in these shitty-ass corporate mascot characters for a long-irrelevant game company that's lucky to even still be in business as he does
God you're autistic, aren't you?

I am not denying that
But for a lot of fans who were born after the show aired they would never know that if they ever saw it on tv, they would just think "where is Amy, Where is Knuckles, where are the Chaos Emeralds, Why is tails so useless"

It doesn't help that a lot of SATam fans were cancerous to Game Canon fans in the 2000's

Your young self is always the one that's correct.

The best Sonic is the one that you liked when you were 12. Whoever you are, that is the correct answer.

Some people just like talking about animation, TV shows and writing.

Thank the Saturn Dry Spell for that mess.

>It doesn't help that a lot of SATam fans were cancerous to Game Canon fans in the 2000's

This probably has something to do with it. It's less anger directed at the actual show and more pent-up anger towards older fans for always telling them that the Sonic they like was terrible.

All Sonic-related materials have junk animation and writing. Sonic is junk, no different from He-Man, Transformers, or Super Mario Bros. Super Show.

There is animation with merit, but Sonic ain't it.

That's not to say Sonic isn't worth enjoying or discussing. But just know that your interest in it lies largely in your personal nostalgia for it. And if it's not, there's something wrong.

SatAM isn't as good as AOSTH because it's enjoyable to manipulate audio clips of John Baldry's voice to make him say lewd and dirty things.

I thought it was mostly anger that SEGA came out and said only their games mattered by forcing all Sonic portrayals to match the standards set by Adventure 1 and 2.

Well I was referring to the anger directed towards the old Sonic cartoon by younger fans. If that is true, that would probably be anger directed at Sega from older fans.

Archie Sonic was still very SATam lite even after the comics started adding game characters

>All Sonic-related materials have junk animation
Nah. There were a few TMS and that one Toei bit that are pretty well done. Marza did some nice 3D stuff for Sega too. Writing it off just because it's attached to a mediocre video game mascot is dumb.
>Sonic is junk, no different from He-Man, Transformers, or Super Mario Bros. Super Show.
Wait, are we talking individual shows or franchises now? Mario's been treated well since the 90s and his upcoming movie will be, if nothing else, gorgeous.

Like, I'm not trying to say any of this stuff is great, I just like talking about this stuff. No sense in only talking about good things. Talking about what does or doesn't work and why is interesting.

>Talking about what does or doesn't work and why is interesting.

That's fair. But the answer to that when it pertains to all things Sonic is simple:

>What works?
The stuff I liked when I was 12.
>Why?
Because I was 12
>What doesn't work?
All the stuff that was made after I was 12.
>Why?
Because I'm not 12 anymore.

i dont know anything about darkstalkers but SatAm, the mario bros movie, and captain N all have very different origins behind their jankiness. Captain N was just show creators looking at box art/a minute of game footage and making up whatever the fuck they wanted. SatAM was literally an unrelated show with sonic shoved into it. Mario Bros is the only one that is weird because of 'american rethinking'.

With that mindset you may as well never talk about anything aimed at a general audience, god forbid animation at large. I enjoy writing and talking about structure and execution of media, so I'm gonna give more thought to it than "nostalgia exists."

>SatAM was literally an unrelated show with sonic shoved into it

Not true. The show was conceived from the get-go as a vehicle starring Sega's mascot character, Sonic.

that's a really good archetype though, there's lots of different ways to play it and it gives comedy writers and voice actors lots of room to go nuts

No, because most animation (at least these days) is aimed at a general audience. There's nothing wrong with a 37-year old mother going to see the latest "How to Train Your Dragon" movie. Sonic isn't aimed at a general audience, it was conceived as an edgier Mario , to lure 12 year old kids away from their Nintendo consoles. But also to sell games and toys to said 12 year olds, of course.

Today it exists for primarily the same reasons. But also to sell games and toys to nostalgic 20 and 30-somethings.

It's actually a little unclear. They started a new pitch after Adventures got shot down for a Saturday slot but the way it developed isn't really documented and DiC had a habit of repurposing failed ideas/designs/etc, like how Inspector Gadget was conceived from the bones of a scrapped Lupin III spinoff.

Well, with absolutely no evidence to support the theory that it started life as an unrelated show, anything else is just tinfoil hattery. In any case, the story at its core is very much in line with the basic premise of what little plot the original games had, so the point is moot.

You realize How to Train Your Dragon is also a franchise conceived to sell merchandise to children, right? Like right down to a TV show, shitty toys and bad video games. If you said something like Prince of Egypt I might have gone "you know what that's a fair point, there's a distinction between a movie made for the art of it and a shitty mascot," but you picked something that's the same in its intent. One was just more successful at mass market appeal while the other had more longevity. Hell's wrong with you?

And to be clear, I'm a big sucker for nostalgia, too. Same as anyone else. The only difference is, I recognize everything I liked as a child as being silly and stupid. Especially me, since I grew up in the 80s and early 90s. Almost everything from that decade is pure, 100% shit. That doesn't stop me from enjoying it, of course. Preferring it, even. And I still love Sonic as much as I did when I was 12. I just have a different perspective on it. I love it now because the memories of enjoying it when I was a kid make me happy. I'm also not blinded by the fact that the only reason I don't enjoy other versions of Sonic have anything to do with quality. And that's fine to not enjoy things, there isn't anything wrong with that. It only becomes wrong if I start attacking other people for enjoying slightly different versions of childhood thing that the childhood thing that I like.

It would be like those 20-something autists that cry about the fact that Nickelodeon isn't as good as it was when they were a child. Like, no fucking shit, it's Nickelodeon, it's for children. It's always going to change and evolve to tailor to the needs and desires of the modern child. Same thing with Sonic.

Hot to Train Your Dragon is a thousand times better than Sonic, though lol.

Like, I *prefer* Sonic too, but let's be real.

Also, the Prince of Egypt had toys.

>The only difference is, I recognize everything I liked as a child as being silly and stupid.
I'm not saying these cartoons are good, I'm saying I like talking about the nitty gritty. I enjoy talking about the qualities of shows and how they compare. I don't know how else to say it, you somehow keep misunderstanding it as engagement with the shows.
>It only becomes wrong if I start attacking other people for enjoying slightly different versions of childhood thing that the childhood thing that I like.
Oh, now I understand. This isn't about whether things are worth discussing. This is "You said thing I liked as a child is bad and I take that as a personal attack on my childhood."

I don't care if you like SatAM, user. That's fine. You like what you like. I just want to have a nice back and forth with someone who enjoys examining the creative process. I'm not attacking you by saying SatAM was a bad show; you even agree that your enjoyment has nothing to do with quality.

SatAM was jerked off way before Yea Forums or Reddit came. Since the early 2000’s people were praising it on Toonzone which was the main hub for animation discussion

I like all the Sonic stuff made when I was 12, user. I don't prefer SatAM or AoSTH, I like them both, they both came out at exactly the same time and I was exactly the right age when they aired. That's why I think the idea of quabbling over which was better is laughable. They're both fun and enjoyable from a nostalgic perspective. Now, if there's one you didn't like when you were 12? That's OK, too. But I hope any angst someone has towards an almost 30-year old cartoon for children is tongue-in-cheek. Like those old console wars discussions, talking about which was better, Genesis or Super Nintendo? In the 6th grade, that shit was real. But anybody still seriously harboring any ill feelings towards one or the other probably needs a life check.

It did *kinda* kickstart the grimdark elements of the franchise that would lead to it's downfall and autism infection (Imagine if there was only AOSTH, no comics and all the Adventure games/06 featured a lighthearded comedic vibe to them

I doubt SatAM influenced the direction of the Japanese games one way or the other. If the later Sonic games became darker and edgier, it was because every non-Nintendo game at that time was heading in the same direction.

Well SATAM did provide the blueprints for the Archie comic and it got a psuedo follow-up as opposed to AOSTH (Underground).
Sega must have noticed how much people loved SATAM and decided to try their own hands at making Sonic grimdark.

Not really, the Japanese side of Sega thumbed their noses at anything pertaining to western-made Sonic materials. In fact, it was a point of contention for them.

>Adventure games
>Grimdark
user, they were just Shonen.

One word - sweepstakes. His entire legend began with a competition focused on watching AoStH.

I too think that robotnik is superior name, but there is no need to be this autistic.
Adventure is logical conclusion of things presented in S3&K

I'll lay it out for you and anyone else who hasn't been paying attention.

AoSTH was a looney toons knock-off with Sonic merged into it with exaggerated animation and very little sense of continuity or overarching plot.
SatAM was a generic 90's action cartoon that had Sonic merged into it with mostly on-frame animation and a failed attempt at an overarching plotline that got cut short after it was cancelled.
AoSTH managed to stay in people's memories thanks to youtube poops and memes.
SatAM managed to stay in people's memories thanks to the Archie comics being mostly based off of SatAM.
AoSTH had annoying as fuck comic relief characters in Grounder, Scratch, and Coconuts.
SatAM had annoying as fuck comic relief characters in Antoine, Dulcy, and Snively.
AoSTH went it's own way from the games in having Robotnik doing mostly jackall, and the entire cast randomly being thrown into different eras and worlds from episode to episode.
SatAM went it's own way from the games in having a created-for-the-show supporting cast, and making robotization a mostly one-way trip.
AoSTH fans hate SatAM because "not muh game characters!" and because most SatAM fans shit on AoSTH.
SatAM fans hate AoSTH because "cartoon literally aimed at 5yo's!" and because most AoSTH fans shit on SatAM.

Both were equally bad in different ways. Anyone trying to claim one was better than the other is just some faggot trying to argue how they had a superior childhood compared to someone else. I preferred SatAM since I felt insulted Sonic felt the need to tell me to not hop inside commercial/industrial clothes dryers in AoSTH, but only actual retards will try to argue one was better than the other.

My bad then, I had just assumed. I have to admit though, the little snipes and details like
>seriously harboring any ill feelings
after I've said multiple times that I don't care about them so much as think one is incompetent and the other is less so makes me have a hard time taking what you say at face value. You keep trying to insist that anyone who would bother to talk about these things is lesser than you while projecting animosity on to me. It doesn't really come off like you don't care. I'm sorry if I have offended you, but I feel like -- using your console war argument for a second -- there's nothing wrong with talking about and comparing the attributes of old products so long as you're having a discussion about their merits and mistakes instead of which you preferred as a child.

Now, are you done telling us how pitiable it is that some people like talking about things you don't, or do you need to repeat yourself as if this is a contest? I only repeat my bit here because I'm still not sure you understand my point, but I hear yours loud and clear.

>AoSTH fans hate SatAM because "not muh game characters!"
But I liked early Archie just fine.

Take a good look at everyone who REEEEE's anytime the FF are even brought up. The majority of AoSTH fan complaints about SatAM are "not muh game characters". That being said, early Archie was a merger between SatAM and AoSTH. Literally SatAM characters shoved into AoSTH universe, complete with the same rules.

This is all 100% true. In addition, the early video games are just pretty looking Mario knock-offs with less depth. And the later games are just awful trash. Beautiful, glorious, and wonderful awful trash.

I wasn't directing any of that at your directly. Just whiny pissant Sonic fans in general. Ya'll should just be thankful anyone still gives enough of a damn about that irrelevant mascot to give you something to whine about.

>a failed attempt at an overarching plotline

Show was best when it was episodic anyway. Most shows usually are.

Man, there are Cubix and Sitting Ducks threads on Yea Forums. Sonic could be twenty years buried and people would still talk about these shows.

I don't even know what those things are, but I'll take your word for it.

>Show was best when it was episodic anyway.
I feel the opposite. All the really terrible episodes were self-contained.

The whole first season was self-contained. I feel that the first season was much more solid than the second season as a whole, and certainly hold up better on rewatches.

It's a bit like X-Men. Terribly plotted show with poor to below average production values. But kids still liked it better than Batman because they were invested on what happened next, simply because there was some sense of continuity, even if it was largely terrible. But because Batman concentrated more on telling single stories, those episodes hold up better on rewatches. It doesn't hurt that the show was competently made, either.

As stated earlier in , SatAM's elements overtook the comic. Ironically Sonic Team back in '98 created an OAV Shonen style story for Sonic Adventure. And when Archie tried to adapt that, it clashed with theirs like orange juice and peppermint

I liked the SatAM elements over the Adventure elements because I liked the whole medieval bits mixed with future tech vibe. You had futuristic space crafts, laser guns, dimension hopping, time travel, and other weird trippy shit. Yet you also had swords, old timey castles, and dragons and shit. It was cool.

The Adventure stuff was more like, "Here's a human city with normal people. And there are talking animal mascot characters walking around and stuff.".

I don't think any of those old comics hold up very well, art or writing-wise, but it would be neat to see a modern Sonic story done (competently) that takes its inspiration from those old comics.

>Sonic story done (competently)
I'm a sonic fan, but I'll tell you right now, that will never happen.

It definitely hasn't happened yet, I'll give you that. But it is possible! Anything is. Somebody out there just has to care enough. And have talent.

>human city with normal people
As far as I'm aware, that had been the norm in Japan for years before Adventure came out.
youtu.be/7wE2dVQBXe0
I'd have to search, but didn't Naka once say back when he was head of Sonic Team, that Sonic had always taken place on Earth?
I feel like I remember him saying the islands in the first games were located in the Pacific.

>that takes its inspiration from those old comics.
It was called Sonic Chronicles, and it was horse shit.

>As far as I'm aware, that had been the norm in Japan for years before Adventure came out.

It probably was. It sucked then, too. At least it would have, had I been aware of it at the time.

You really are autistic, aren't you?

And it destroyed the Archie comics by triggering Penders' autism.

No, I just prefer fantasy. There is nothing interesting about normal looking humans in a modern looking world. That's boring.

So was SatAM.

South Island drifts freely through the oceans according to Sonic 1's Japan manual.

There's a lot that the localizers erased.

Nobody was talking about your least favorite children's cartoon, who's bully fans still haunt your darkest nightmares. We're talking about the comics.

>Sonic 1 Japan: Eggman comes to South Island and bullds his base to rotate against the island's own thinking it will open a portal to where the Chaos Emeralds are hidden.
>Sonic 1 US: Oh no! Robotnik's turning animals into robots. Gotta save them.

The localizers focused on the wrong plot element, and it ended up being what SatAM went with and exaggerated.

>getting this defensive over the lore of a video game

Don't worry, your favorite games are still very fun to play. Even if the "lore" behind them is (appropriately), a big pile of fucking nothing, creatively.

Your show has been a dead pile of fucking nothing for 25 years or so.

>show

Learn to read, you simpering idiot.

And have the titanium balls to work around the elephantine bullshit SoJ made involving Sonic

She technically did, her first appearance was in a manga published a year before SatAM premiered. Sega of America ended up renaming her "Princess Sally" in CD's manual.

Attached: sonic cd manual.jpg (356x599, 78K)

In America Robotnik's Goal is to turn the Animals into Robots
In Japan be turned the Animals into robots to defeat the Island's inhabitants and get the Emeralds

That did NOT help. At ALL. Cue angry SatAM fans.

>angry SatAM fans

You'd have to use a time machine and travel back to 1999 to find some. I doubt many of them are left that care all that much.

>tfw the games may be shit, but at least they're not as shit as satam

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Why do you think the games are shit?

Nowadays they're just hallway runners. Team Sonic Racing was great though.

Oh I thought you were talking about the actual Sonic games. As in the ones that were made for Genesis. It doesn't even register in my mind that there are still Sonic games being made since I'm at least 20 years past the intended target demographic.

They're not shit. You just outgrew them.

>tfw you still enjoy all the Sonic games despite their issues while also recognizing that they're in no way perfect with plenty of room for improvement

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This reminds me a bit of Dr. Sloth from Neopets.

>tfw you enjoy all the sonic games, cartoons, and comics and recognize that most(all?) of it is childish trash and wouldn't have it any other way

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I can't believe the United States government thought so highly of a beloved Canadian children's classic that they saw fit to rip it off by inserting a popular video game mascot into it. Crazy times.

Because SatAM is shit?
it's like not good at all, setting aside that the show doesn't focus on Sonic it's just bad.

AoSTH also has the best fucking Robotnik which just makes it kino af, who even fucking remembers that bore in SatAM?

this

Attached: DRRRRRRRRRROPLLETS.jpg (720x576, 104K)

This Robotnik, and only this version of Robotnik is the only genuinely good thing to come out of the entire Sonic franchise.

I guess the first two games are also okay for non-autists to play, too.If you're very young. But that's it!

Mr. President, why are you on Yea Forums?

You just know he likes watching cartoons.

because pingas and friends was light hearted and didn't take itself seriously while satam was some genx'er's attempt to make sonic serious and dark.

Most of the people who worked on that show were probably literal Boomers, actually. It was made in 1993. I know one of the animators working on it actually worked on the classic Looney Tunes cartoons of the 1940s.

Satam was only "dark" for those children who thought teletubbies were too scary.

>fat yosemite sam is a good character

AOSTH was like a parody that even aknowlaged how different it is from the Games , they made references to the games and even had the Emeralds

SATam basically changed a lot of the lore, and not only that but it created a lot of fans who to this day talk about how that said lore is better than any other Sonic Lore

You also could imagine most Sonic characters as Looney Tunes Parodies of themselves in AOSTH, a character even resembled Amy in personality , you can imagine the likes of Knuckles or Shadow as over the top parodies of themselves, SATam is so different that Most Sonic Characters would look out of place in it, heck Sonic himself looked out of place where his fur was unnaturally Blue and didn't have human hair , even Underground was more Soniclike in their designs , Sonia and Manic feel more like Sonic characters than say Antoine ever did

This man stole Sally's virginity!

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Fun fact of the day: Did you know that the only fanbase that contains more "not muh!" autism than the Sonic the Hedgehog community is Thomas the Tank Engine? It's true! In fact, toy manufacturers have to pay meticulous attention to every small detail when creating toy likenesses of Thomas and his fellow train friends. This is due to the fact that, much like the Sonic the Hedgehog fanbase, the children who enjoy Thomas (and even some adults!) are so pedantic in needing their favorite characters to look and act 100% dead-on accurate to the way they are accustomed, that they have actually been known to cause disruptions or perform acts of violence if they see an object resembling Thomas that's even the slightest bit off. There have even been reports of children throwing themselves on the toy store floor, kicking and screaming for minutes until they are dragged out of the store by their embarrassed mothers. Wild, huh?

The more you know! And remember kids, if you do happen to see an autistic child, be sure to remind them, "Gotta go fast!". Or if they seem to be tall, fat, and balding and working in a grocery store pushing carts, tell them, "Gotta speed, keed!".

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John is basically one of the biggest examples of how "not Sonic" a lot of early western Canon was

Compared John to say Thrash and you can tell that one is a Sonic character while the other is a Warner Bros characters

SatAM was a product of Penders, AoStH was the product of people having fun with the Sonic IP.

>not liking Deem Bristow's performance in the Adventure games
>not liking Mike Polluck's performance in Boom and his twitter shenanigans
>NOT LIKING SONIC 3 & KNUCKLES

Attached: 1560363462020.png (615x614, 520K)

You can add:

>NOT LIKING BANJO-KAZOOIE

to that list as well

Adventures also had a Metal Sonic of sorts (Pseudo-Sonic).

>SatAM was a product of Penders
The show came out in 1993 and Penders got a job at Archie in 1994 on issue 11 of the comic based on the show. You giant dingus.

Oh, really? My bad then

Is shadow even as iconic as Tails anymore?

The autistic Mario fans put Sonautists to shame. Let's not even get into Pokemon.

Simply because the people who grew up on AOSTH were tired of it getting shit on and are now shitting on SatAM. Theyre both good imo, but the Sonic fanbase always loves to start needless rivalry (SA1 vs SA2, classic vs modern). This shit happens in every Sonic thread

But all cartoons are like this now a days.
Why do you think they pull off all this political stuff.

In the end, who on your side?
Who can you trust in the middle of the night?

youtu.be/tLBL4M55tJU

Most SatAM shitters are too young to have grown up with either show, outside of re-runs on Toon Disney. But even that was 2001 at the very latest.

He is becoming kinda Iconic due to people who grew up with him are now in their 20's , him winning many Smash Polls about "Echo fighters" proves that

Look at how SAOD and Linkin Park are becoming iconic Bands after years of being mocked

SatAM is more ambitious but is unable to hold up to it’s own goals, while AoStH aimed lower, and while not having the budget to pull off physical cartoon comedy made up for it by just having some fun little characters and more out there plots.

Plus, personally, I just find it funny, dumb sometimes, occasionally clever, but it’s something I can put on in the background and watch. SatAM is really just another action adventure show but just doesn’t have the same charm as it’s peers.

Really though, neither show is much good, and the only reason they get compared is because they ran together.

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Cosmic Eternity > Sonic Boom > Toot Toot Sonic Warrior

A lot of them became fans of the show after Nostalgia Critic made a video calling it one of the best Shows of the early 90's

Adventures Of is literally only worthwhile for Robotnik who is super based and has an insanely charming voiceover.

SatAM is much better as an actual series with a decent story and really high stakes.

Hmm, one of the very best shows of the early 90s?

The show was pretty good, but there were a LOT of good cartoons back then. You have to take into account basically all of Disney and WB's output.

I became a fan of AOSTH because I got a DVD of it in the 2000s.

1992 was 27 years ago senpai

Ahh, that makes sense. Plus, I'm pretty sure kids these days can probably just watch it on YouTube for free. I'm pretty sure whoever own's DiC's catalog cares very little about people uploading and sharing their content.

cute tails feet

For better or worse, AoSTH is probably more popular with younger audiences since it definitely feels closer in tone to a modern cartoon than Sonic SatAM. SatAM feels more like the kind of cartoon that aired alongside Disney shows like Gargoyles or TaleSpin where Adventures' style of randumb meme humor would feel right at home on Cartoon Network today. Except for the fact that the animation is far too good and expensive and the voice acting is too professional sounding, of course.

Tangle and Whisper 1 dropped yesterday

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Thing is though, I love those two shows you mentioned, but I just can’t stand SatAM.

I would say that a lot of kids like Sonic X, because for them it’s the most ‘authentic’ looking Sonic show to date. You only have to see all the screencap edits people do of that series.

Fuck the Wisps

are the IDW comics any good?

IDW Sonic is shit, much like SatAM.

That’s nice dear.

art is decent, otherwise no. sales are ass too.

IDW should do a Sonic comic that only has elements from the early 90s games. None of that post-Sonic Adventure trash.

>something for children is childish

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The art is awesome but the writing is pretty bland

they like to show the furry tits when they can

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american, everyone.

So, Sonic Mania Adventure?

Seriously, why does Sonic Adventure trigger SatAMfags so much?

even as a kid I recognized that Satam was just some other show with Sonic's name tacked onto it.
I hated how bland it was. Two locations, woods and shitty city, when Sonic from day one was about outlandish fever-dream-Sega landscapes. Neon pinball beaches and ancient ruins floating in the sky.
Nope--dreary woods and shitty city is all you get.

Feels like half an issue. At least it's not boring.

It was incredibly boring.

Weirdest part is when they try to claim that SATam is more true to the classics than Adventure is

Even though the only things that Changed in Adventure is Amy's design , the design of the robots and the involvement of Humans , who were hinted at a lot in the Genesis Games Japanese manuals

It showed that you could tell a story with Sonic without the need for there to be any Rebels vs Empire bullshit. SatAM fags love the idea of a scary evil overlord Robotnik when he was never depicted that way in the games (even the early ones with no dialog give Robotnik plenty of personality). Adventure shows him as an eccentric mad scientist with a goofy demeanor and a huge ego.
They think SatAM has pathos or some retarded notion that Sonic (and everything) has to be dark in order to have value.

And it triggered Penders salt level when Sonic Team made the Echidnas Mayans

How would you react if SEGA took in some of the AOSTH cast into their games

Isn't that what made him want to quit? I mean having to integrate Adventure in general.

Scratch, Grounder, and Coconuts already existed in the games. Except Scratch was based on these little chickens called "Cluckers".

The very first game ended with Eggman throwing a childish tantrum and stomping on the END sign. Scary evil overlord, he is not.

It depends which characters, Scratch and Grounder already have roles taken. However it might be fun to see them lead rejected Eggman robots against him.

Katella, if done by the Japanese would be a treat

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He quit after the Adventure adaptation (while changing it so that Knuckles saves the day, because of course).
I believe it was a combination of being forced to integrate more game elements and editorial demanding him to add King Shadow to Mobius 25 Years Later.

Why can't Sonic Fans get along without telling the other that they deserve to die for liking a different interpretations of Sonic?

satam is directly responsible for everything wrong with the sonic fanbase. it is the original "lets take sonic seriously" that lead into the comics, which in turn led to embarasing shipping/fetish shit with OC villians that then leaked backwards into the games

In a more story-wise/recent sense.

>However it might be fun to see them lead rejected Eggman robots against him.
This can work, them being anti-hero on their own rites
Katella could even take them in to get back at Eggman for rejecting her

And Coconuts having the title 'Badnik Prince' after rallying up abandoned bots

Penders stayed on the comic until 2006.

>Write for a company's IP.
>Company wants canon elements to their IP.
>Quits.

Lol, Penders.

Cringe as fuck.

youtu.be/LXRrpdYlgrY
youtu.be/Vjb2asrjv-o
This summarizes it all better than words ever could.

cope

Stop spreading misinformation. Ken didn't like the angle but worked it into his story. He left when the editor insisted on shoving Shadow into the arc that was proto-The Lara-Su Chronicles.

Because they feel that the future success, or rather revival of the franchise depends on following their vision of Sonic.

Then it might've been after Sa2 and around Heroes.
I just know he stopped being head writer at some point, which is when Flynn came on, though he still had the occasional backup.
He's the man that had Knuckles kill off Robotnik in the canon (as far as he's concerned) future.

>Shadow was the thing that finally made Penders quit.

Based Shadow.

My bad, sorry.
Ignore I guess.

>>Looking through Penders non-Sonic works
He did Valiant Zelda?!

At least once, apparently. He even mentioned it on Twitter at one point.
>We'll never know where the Zelda story he did fits into the Ken Penders multiverse.

>it is the original "lets take sonic seriously"
Nah, Sonic CD had the environmentalism / bad future already. And "take Sonic seriously" isn't exactly a super-difficult idea to think up. Even without Sonic CD someone would have done it sooner or later. And American Sega / Sonic were already marketing themselves as the more serious amd extreme alternative to Nintendo, so it was inevitable Sonic would end up with all those shit edgy 3D games no matter how you look at it. The cartoon isn't to blame.

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>Sonic CD had the environmentalism / bad future already
it also came out about a week after this show did and was a game full of bright neon colors and wacky music in the japanese version, only the US version made it darker with the unique music

Same point. If the show didn't exist the game would still have the edgy US soundtrack showing the idea was happening regardless.
And the bad futures still depicted environmental desolation either way.

You're acting as if anyone actually played Sonic CD when it was released.

Same point. The idea was happening regardless. "Take Sonic seriously" did not need the cartoon to be conceived of.

my point wasn't that sonic being seriously wasn't going to happen anyway, but that
- this was the first, so it's shit just like the later stuff that sega did that was also shit
- specifically this show and the comic based on it introduced lots of fetish/romance drama shit to sonic that wasn't a thing in this or the other edgy stuff sega did in the folowing years (sonic 2006 is the one time and that was over 10 years later)

>The very nature of the premise meant Robotnik could never one-up Sonic (he conquered everything else already, there's nothing left to take), undermining all tension.
That’s something that applies to all 90s animated action shows, not just Satam

Why TMNT can acknowlege it's spinoffs but Sonic can not?
Didn't normalfags shat on Sonic R soundtrack? No wonder they replaced CD's soundtrack.

Sonic 2 had environmentalism and world ruined by pollution themes too and everyone played that.
Chemical Plant Zone and Oil Ocean Zone weren't subtle references to that concept.
>this show and the comic based on it introduced lots of fetish/romance drama shit
The show didn't have any fetish/romance drama. It had Sally maybe kissing Sonic on the cheek before he'd insult her and run off, that's about it

SEGA are really protective of their brand, yet also not. It’s strange.

Because zoomers.

Shadow is popular but he's still notbwholey recognizable as Sonic, tails and eggman.

The aren't autistic Mario fans in anywhere near the same level as Sonic fags

He still doesn't have a big impact like tails does.

Neopets? Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaag

>Didn't normalfags shat on Sonic R soundtrack?
No?
>No wonder they replaced CD's soundtrack.
Sega of America replaced CD's initial soundtrack because they didn't think it resembled traditional videogame music enough. It also featured a lot of J-pop elements that they didn't think would be received that well by western audiences.

>How to Train Your Dragon is better
Not really? The second and third film suffer from really poor writing choices

I could understand the
>Lighthearted
argument if The Adventures of wasn't so BAD!

How the hell do Sonic Genesis games have less depth than Mario?

SatAM wasn't even "dark" in any bad or edgy sort of way. It was just a show where the heroes were in a bad situation. It's not like they were a bunch of Shadow or Punisher type "fuck Batman" tryhards.

There's no summer posting. We all use smartphones.

He just became a loud speaker for a minority fan group.

Tails appeared in a game that sold 10m+ and in two shows with 5m+ viewers and was a part of Sonic Marketing when SEGA was spending millions to Kill the SNES

It's pretty unfair to compare Shadow to him, Shadow appeared when SEGA's market share was destroyed and his most mainstream Appearances were in SA2 and Sonic X

All they had to go off of was just the sprites from the first two games.

He's more popular than him at least.

> edgy US soundtrack
Yeah, it ain't JPOP, but tis is the same soundtrack with:
youtu.be/B-F4DJacD9A
youtu.be/KTHrJiw-6jk
youtu.be/j9L1zCA_SJ0

Wasn't it because they got their new sound studio and wanted to flex it?

>Why TMNT can acknowlege it's spinoffs but Sonic can not?
Because there are actually licensing issues involving some of Sonic's side media.

>Waking up EARLY on a FUCKING SATURDAY just to watch shitty cartoons when you could watch Sonic on Disney Channel any time of the day.

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Autism. The answer is always autism.

Why does Sonic SatAM trigger Adventurefags so much? Same reason. Autism. You guys sure do ask dumb questions.

It's like Yea Forums did a 180 overnight. What changed the common opinion? You fucks jerked this show off for years.

>tfw Penders got trended on Twitter for this

Sonic’s the fastest thing alive, a minute man like him could never satisfy Sally anyway.

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Jim Cummings was the best Robotnik and I wish the dipshits at Sega would finally realize this and bring him back.

>Why does everyone now praise AOSTH and take potshots at SatAM
YoutubePoop. There’s at least two generations of kids who grew up making and watching YouTube poop and AOSTH is a fountain of content to make jokes and edits from. Thanks to that, people have actually warmed up to the show and now genuinely like it and the characterization. Same thing happened to the Zelda Phillips-CD games.

reminder one of sonics actors was in a safe sex psa

youtu.be/eW5v8WvtJzA

Nobody thinks CDI Zelda is a good game though
Go to any forum and ask about FoE's place on the timeline and everyone would tell you to fuck off

That being said I kinda wish Gwonam was adopted by Nintendo, he could be a legit good character, maybe a Gerudo spy

I agree and have no idea why everyone is so much more impressed by AOSTH Robotnik. AOSTH wasn't bad, but he was just a joke angry guy and that's about it.
SatAM Robotnik was great as a serious threat who's actually smart and quick to maliciously fuck someone over as the opportunities arise. Instead of bumbling around and getting constantly beaten by superior protagonists running laps around him he was fully in power and everyone knew to get anywhere near him was putting yourself at serious risk for mind rape and having your body repurposed into a mechanical drone.

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I prefer AOSTH and I often see people praise only SatAM outside of Yea Forums. I honestly don't like SatAM or the Archie's world and some of the things it takes from the sonic bible. I don't think Sally is a good character, nor do I care about any of the ocs. Sonic shouldn't have a love interest either it's ooc of him to have one human or furry.

Hmmm... A comedy villain in a comedy light hearted show being praised for fitting the part? You realize comparing the two robotnik's is apples to oranges right. Of course He's a bumbling idiot in AOSTH since that's the shtick. Changing him to be threatening would change the whole tone and style of the show.

Gwonam and King Harkinian were too good for this world.

Was Sonic SatAM gonna be something else originally until they shoehorned Sonic into it? I read that here but I don't know if it's true.

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This. It was worse in the comics, but roboticization was my first brush as a wee kid with body horror.

The idea of there being maybe fifty real people left in the world and the risk of being caught at any second and forced into a metal straitjacket to serve an inhuman dictator for the rest of his life before being inert but conscious for eternity was horrifying

>Games show that Eggman simply uses tiny animals to power his robots like they were batteries
>SatAM twists and exaggerates it into roboticization to add to the weird dark tone they were shooting for

We could get it if not for Japanese autism.

There’s some art concept showing the original intentions.

>fourteen years

I mean

ACTUALLY, it didn't happen, but when redesigning Eggman for Adventure they considered using his western design, comolete with head bolts and robot arm.

They were at least aware and open to western stuff, given they adopted his western name as his "real" name.

How would AOSTH Sonic/Robotnik Deal with SaTAM Robotnik/Sonic?

Are they selling badly? I heard they keep selling out

SEGA of Japan had considered Robotnik canon since Sonic Triple Trouble at the earliest, as one of the zones is called "Robotnik Winter".

These days, however, SEGA strongly insists that his name is Eggman and ONLY Eggman. Any use of Robotnik is purely an American localization choice which they remove for Japan releases.

They fight to a draw, then realize a combination of AoStH's chaotic lunacy and SatAM's cold ruthlessness is just what they need to wipe out both their Sonics. They lose, of course.

There is a poll RIGHT NOW for a SEGA mobile game that has Scratch and Grounder as options tk vote for

Because people who like SATAM often try and defend it by shit talking AOSTH. Anybody who watches AOSTH will tell you that's it's just aping Looney Tunes with shittier animation, but still get enjoyment from the occasional well executed joke or character moment. That sort of zaniness fits the series more.
>youtube.com/watch?v=LecH7KTDGAo
Meanwhile SATAM fans act like it's the fucking holy grail of children's animation for having a "deep" plot and environmental themes, and call it the peak of western contributions to the series because they love muh sERIOUS SAWNIK and lust after Sally and Bunny.

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I don't think there's ever been some sort of statement, but it's pretty clear it was totally unrelated to Sonic at one point.

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>The Spielberg-styled designs and animations

You think an Animaniacs-esque Sonic would have worked?

Source of the drawing? That's some cartoony goodness.

Check YouTube for Sonic: Man of the Year from Sonic Jam. It was animated by TMS.

Some guy on DA trying to argue that they didn't have to redesign Robotnik for AOSTH, it could have worked fine with the original one. I do like Milton Knight's version, but I think he's right.

youtube.com/watch?v=cKHwaV8eAGE

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>I mean having to integrate Adventure in general.
Why do you say that, like it's a hard thing to do?

SaTam was not too bad in S1. S2 feels like a downgrade.

They changed Rotor's VA, and the new one was nowhere near the same. Getting rid of the character would have been better

Antoine had WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many episodes dedicated to him despite being consistently the most annoying character in the show.

Introduced a ton of lore that was never really touched on again.

The animation team 100% got lazier in reusing footage. I know they did it in S1 as well, and its a pretty common thing in animation, but it was like they didn't even try. Example, in the final scene with Robuttnik in the last episode where he's screaming I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, they use basically the same few clips for the entire voice line. One of the clips is Robotnik SMILING. Like come on.

Still would have been cool to see how they would have fleshed out the show in S3 and S4.

What about those parts that aren't in licence hell. Only reason why penders "won" because SEGA told archie told them to finish sooner (and archie being retarded but whatever). Qnd they still own rights to AoSTH and SatAM. They defenetly own rights to their own fucking games.

You could file this under ‘memes’ or something, but AoStH just has a lot more memorable moments in it. For better or worse, things like Robotnik lifting his ass on the organ seat, getting dry humped by Katella, asking why his precious rocket ship is drifting off into deep space, Sonic telling people not to get into washing machines etc. are far easier to share around and laugh at ironically or unironically. Not to say SatAM doesn’t have a few of these, but they generally require you to be invested in the show already to find them funny. Or they’re serious moments which generally centre around discussions on why Robotnik should be a serious villain, something SA1 and 2 Robotnik can do better.

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did you read it?
Penders had fucked the lore so bad he had to make major ass-pulls to explain simple things like a fucking city existing

I remember (having never read the comic and wanting to see what it was about) reading the wiki for the comic before the whole reboot fiasco, and just looking at the ridiculous lore put me off.

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Let's kick this crossover up a notch.

who should be in the Sonic verse?

>game Modern Sonic (voiced by Roger) - a smarmy action junkie who loves adventure. Regular Modern Sonic.

>game Classic Sonic - a cute, mute chubby boi who always rushes into action. Looks like Mania cartoon

>tv Boom Sonic (also voiced by Roger) - a laid-back, egocentric beach bum who doesn't take things seriously. tall boi with bandages.

>tv AoSTH Sonic (voiced by Jaleel White) a cartoony trickster who fools around with his foes. Got the mohawk and everything.

>SatAM/Archie Sonic(maybe voiced by White or someone else) - a radical rebel who is part of a group of Freedom Fighters. Looks like Tracey Yardley design.

>comic Fleetway Sonic (voiced by someone British) - a rude ass punk who uses sarcastic quips to hide his insecurities...and a dark secret. Looks like an edgy fat boi.

>OVA/Toei Sonic (voiced by Martin Freeman) - Hero of Planet Freedom and the Land of The Sky. Spikes go up, cel shaded.

>anime Sonic X (either voiced by Griffin or Kanemaru) - a shonen hero who always shows up at the last second. Look like flat anime cartoon with cheap running effects. Maybe only talks in Japanese

>manga Shokugan Sonic( voiced by Kanemaru) - the cool alter-ego of shy nerd Nikki Hedgehog. Always speak in moonspeak, and in screen tone.

am I missing anyone?

Um... What the fuck is this Truman show shit

the answer for anything sonic fandom related is always 'autism'

Station Square

A bunch of 90's babies that where super pissed when SEGA of Japan laid down the law and declared that all the lore they grew up with from the Western Branches marketting departments (Mobius, FF, Robotnik, Power Rings, Sonic with any type of origin, everything from SatAM/Fleetway) was a dirty lie and they had to use a canon that no one in the west wouldn't have heard much off in pre-internet times, with silly shit like the villain being a goofy dood named "Eggman" and Sonic living on Earth with humans, and fighting water dragons and having anime powers

Though, if I grew up calling the bad guy "Dr. Robotnik", and now I was forced to call him "Dr. Eggman" without any warning, I'd be a bit pissed too. Wouldn't care if Eggman is the original, you just don't do that to long time customers.

It be like Capcom finally confronting any legal issues, and just start calling Balrog "M.Bison" in the states.

But.. why is it underground?

Basically just think of Dobson and how he thinks Nintendo treated the "canon" around the Nintendo 64.

youtube.com/watch?v=HeIkk6Yo0s8
Here's the piano part: youtube.com/watch?v=_MM_Q0nfaG0

>What color is my heart?
>I see no heart.
>exactly!
kino

Not really, fujo audiences don't make up the majority of die hard fans. The polls re fujoshi.

>am I missing anyone?
Underground Sonic and movie Sonic.

cuz Penders and the rest of the Archie couldn't figure out how the fuck to put a city of humans in their lore when they just established that all the humans cept Eggman fucked off to space.

Plane's leaving in an hour, come on hurry it up!

they were both better than any 2010's era cartoon

>but he was just a joke angry guy and that's about it.
His vocal register is more natural, his enunciation is unique, his line reads were perfect and he had more range. Jim's a great voice actor, but Robotnik was one of his many stock voices and he did a so so job. John was just acting, and cutting it up most of the time.

What did Nintendo even change besides Link being a mute and Samus's design which never had a consistent look untill zero suit
>inb4 muh Koopalings

>Heroic Robonik (voiced by Cummings using his "Herb" voice) A meek, kindly veterinarian that does his best to save the animals of mobius from Evil Sonic.

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Why are Adventurefags the most autistic part of the Sonic fandom?

And why can't they accept they will NEVER EVER NOT IN A MILLION YEARS get a Adventure 3 or another Chao Garden. You're dead to SEGA.

>never get Adventure 3

That came out in 2006

Wasn't her "Green hair" in the first game a result of the Lightning in the Area and her actual hair red?

Did any western cartoon make her hair green or is Dobson a dibshit

Sonic Team's canon does not play well with others, especially Penders'

I think since Flynn, he goes by Professor Kintobor now.

AoSTH was a lighthearted cartoon.
SatAM led to the Archie comics adapting those concepts and characters leading the way for all the bullshit and bile those comic accumulated until 2007 or so. SatAM goes against what Sonic is while AoSTH somewhat keeps that concept, pic related.

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To be fair, any 90's cartoons would be better than any 2010's era cartoon.

Cartoons are fucking filth now.

Bollers' 124-129 storyline left a foul, smegging taste in fans' mouths with that Xorda elephant shit

>Antoine had WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many episodes dedicated to him despite being consistently the most annoying character in the show

I agree with all of your points, but I just want to add to this.

Yeah! It doesn't make any fucking sense at all. They went out of their way to make Antoine (and Rotor) a less charming and likable character on purpose. They even admitted it in an old interview. So then, why did they wait until after they smoothed out the layers of his personality to decide to start dedicating whole episodes to him?

"What were they THINKING?"

There was an episode dedicated to him in the first season that delved deeper into his personality and motivations and it was fine. Pretty damn good even. But as you said, S1 was betttterrrrrrrr. Sorry Hurst fans.

>124
That's actually the issue I started with and I had no fucking idea what was going on. Dropped it immediately the next issue.

>Still would have been cool to see how they would have fleshed out the show in S3 and S4.

I used to wish we got a Season 3 and 4 when I was a child, but honestly, chances were very high that the budget would have plunged even further than it already did in Season 2. In the early 90s, the industry was going through its whole 'Renaissance' period, which led to cartoons on television having much, much better production values compared with those in the 70s and 80s. But by the time the mid-90s rolled around, production companies were noticeably scaling budgets back and it was no more obvious than it was in the case of Sonic where S2 took such an obvious downgrade. Other shows that were still going like Animaniacs, X-Men, and Ninja Turtles were also affected.

I remember being disappointed that we never did receive a 3rd season. But in retrospect, I'm kind of glad that we didn't. I don't think it could have ever lived up to my expectations.

youtu.be/pg-L5AGbrsU
youtu.be/OMYO8cXFCRs

TMNT's "Red Sky" were a sign that the Turtles were about to become out of style and supplanted by Power Rangers.
X-Men's 5th season was gaaaaaah.
Animaniacs felt the rot hard and the advent of Pokemon didn't help matters so Wakko's Wish was made as a swan song.

Yeah, Animaniacs took a massive hit when it moved over to Kids WB. The first couple of new episodes were fine since those were all holdovers from Fox, but the episodes made exclusively for the WB were noticeably less funny and sloppier.

Holy shit, they had an action adventure cartoon adaptation of fucking pogs? Why don't I remember this at all? I loved pogs.

Pokemon was the beginning of thd end for Kids WB and Saturday mornings in general, because now every network was buying up more and more poorly-done anime dubs in an effort to compete.

>We've grown up and can appreciate genuine comedy more

You literally didn't watch the show and only have seen clips / highlights.

Who is the eggman on the bottom right, and the sonic with the costume on the top right?

>You literally didn't watch the show and only have seen clips / highlights.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure most of the pro-AOSTH haven't tried re-watching it recently as an adult. The comedy is really not good, not even in a "so bad it's good" kind of way.
e.g. Try watching that robo-ninjas episode. I did that a few months back thinking it had to be entertaining from the premise of robotic ninjas alone, but it was just a a pile of low effort "orientals are inscrutable and have mysterious philosophical advice" jokes. Even with stupid oriental stereotypes I could imagine a cartoon that made this actually funny, but you will seriously sit through this episode and not laugh at all.

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It's actually the palette of the Varia suit upgrade (without it, her sprites have brown hair). Samus never was animated in Captain N, but appeared in the Valiant Comics to fill in for the comic not having the rights to third party characters Simon Belmont and Megaman. In the comics, she was blonde.

Captain N and Super Mario World both show the worst of this: NBC didn't think there was (enough) money in cartoons and kids programming after Saved By The Bell was the success it was, so by 1992 they had completely axed the animation line up to focus entirely on the Teen demographic. In the final year before NBC pulled the plug, the budget cuts were so bad that Captain N (say of its quality what you will) got shuffled from Japanese based studios like Spectrum Animation to an even sloppier and cheaper Korean studio. Super Mario World had it worse: despite its intro being animated (very beautifully!) in Japan, the actual show got done by the same CHINESE studio that would go on to do the infamously poor "animation" of ABC's "Hammerman".

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In Adventure he was genuinely threatening though, what with blowing up half the moon, nearly killing Sonic and being a breath away from succeeding in his plans at the end of his team's story.

And then he throws a stomping temper tantrum when all of those threats fall on deaf ears.

>SatAM gets shit because the scripts were lacking, the characters were poorly utilized and it replaces elements from the source material seemingly without purpose.
Thats aosth though

Not really. If AoStH commits any sin it's that it hews too close to the games.

I *love* AoSth. Fucking love it. It brings me no greater nostalgic joy in the world.

But...yeah, it's a gigantic pile of shit. Objectively. The stories range from non-sense to non-existence to childish. It's best viewed through a rose-colored lens. Which, hey, works for me because I always have on my giant rose-tinted glasses. But I am definitely the oddball here. I would never recommend the show to anyone who isn't either 5 years old or a mental patient.

Does Blaze count?