What makes Superman Unworthy?

He killed a General Zod that had already gave up and surrendered. What Superman did is a war crime.

these, is about the duty you carry rather than personality traits or kill count.

Clark thinks about what he does.

Thor assumes he has the right to do whatever he wants.

Several reboots ago in a maligned story by a child molester he executed more than one of a nearly extinct race.
Virtually no actual fans of Superman support that characterization.

that is Jane Thor mindset not regular Thor

Clark assumes that just because Batman is a hero, he shouldn't violently rape the Joker's ass. He is wrong.

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Lawyers.

Clark doesn't think about what he does.

Clark assumes that everything will be alright and nothing terrible can happen. New Krypton explodes.

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Cap and Thor(and Bill and Wondy and all pre-Jane Worthies) had, among other things like honor, fighting spirit an stuff, the awareness they WILL kill to save the day, if that's what necessary, but will fight to their limits and beyond to avoid it.

Superman doesn't. He might have ended killing a couple times, but he never believed it as an option, same for other characters like Spider-man and Hawkeye

Cap wasn't temporary though. He always lifts it whenever it's necessary
It's what broke Thor's brain back in Secret Empire: he believed Stevil being STILL WORTHY

nah he's weak against magic

>It's what broke Thor's brain back in Secret Empire: he believed Stevil being STILL WORTHY
Or the cosmic storm known as Mother Tempest is a cunt that is pro-Hydra.

Superman has no desire to be the Warrior-King that Thor's position implies. All the other Thors are willing to lead their people into battle and sacrifice them and themselves for the sake of the "kingdom" at large. For Clark, fighting is a last resort. It's something he does to prevent harm to anyone, amd he doesn't want the burden of leadership except leadership by example.

If that was true, he’d die from a single punch from Black Adam. But superman fucks his shit up regularly

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it depends if you follow Busiek's vision or Jurgens' vision.

Jurgens' is "anything magical or magically charged nullifies Superman's powers. A knife enchanted to shine in the dark would cut Superman like it would cut any nonpowered Kryptonian"

Busiek's is "Superman has no defensive bonus against Magic. A knife enchanted to shine in the dark wouldn't hurt him more than any normal knife, a knife enchanted to cut anything would cut him like it would cut anything else without magic defenses like Captain Marvel or Diana's bracelets"

>Or the cosmic storm known as Mother Tempest is a cunt that is pro-Hydra.
that would be more interesting, but they had Stevil's hydra mother figure using a fragment of Cosmic Cube to temporary change the enchantment

>somersault to justify a murder
>killing is a sign of nobility

it doesn't matter if lives are in danger or not. A murder is still a murder and the inherent problem of killing someone is that you are literally and physically prevailing with force another being by imposing yourself on him. Even if you do it for good reason, or to protect someone is still a way to impose your power on others someonelse.
it is simply the supreme male wish fulfillment to have total control over your own life and that of others people.

Superman is only weak against magic when it's convenient. Kinda like how his reaction to kryptonite is only as violent as the narrative calls for.

>literally and physically prevailing with force another being by imposing yourself on him
This describes almost everything superheroes do. Also taking a life is completely justifiable when done in defense of yourself and/or others. To think otherwise is just childlike naivety.

Superman doesn't have that though. He has killed specifically that version had killed Zod and his gang. It weighed heavily on him and he went on space adventures to get over it. I think if anything the willingness to take a life even with the weight would make him worthy.

Let's be honest the real reason he can't lift it permanently is because the writer didn't want him too. He meets all the qualification others who have wielded have. Mjolnir has become a plot device writers use to prop up their favorite heroes as bad ass.

Probably because Thor doesn't beat the shit out of people and encourages others to kill people who don't agree with you politically

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>This describes almost everything superheroes do.

Indeed, and Superheroes are wish fulfillment, this concerns any mythology hero. Now, I don't want to start a discussion about the need to kill in extreme situations, it's justifiable yes, but too many edgelords using this excuse because they want a simple license to kill in comic.

You might want to reevaluate your life choices if you see Superman beating up KKK goons carrying chains and torches and think, "Oh no, my political party!"

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Thinking about it, Superman just barely beats Thor in this crossover, and says out loud Thor may be the single toughest opponent he's ever faced. By this logic, Beta Ray Bill could probably beat Superman. I'm going to say he would.
Not that they would ever fight, they'd be best friends

Superman spreading lies about political parties and saying they are the KKK and encouraging others to hurt them is fucked up

I shouldn't have to worry about getting the shit beat out of me because I voted for Trump

This is Simonson's idea of why Bill was worthy and Superman wasn't:

>"One of the cool things about Thor was the enchantment around Mjolnir and the original inscription on it. So I thought, well that means someone else can pick up this hammer and get this power, if they're worthy! So since then, some other big characters, people's favorites, have picked up the hammer, Captain America, Superman, whoever. But at this point, no one had ever picked up the hammer. I liked the idea of Cap walking to the bathroom and seeing it, and grabbing and just tugging, not being able to. So this had to be someone new. This is the most powerful weapon of the Norse gods. This hammer is a killing weapon. It's used to kill Frost Giants and others. So, Superman couldn't pick it up, cause he's never going to kill anyone, and the hammer knows that. Captain America, he's too patriotic. He's too much a symbol of America to be chosen by this Norse artifact. So he couldn't get it. So I created Bill because he's noble, and he's designed to kill. He's got a great purpose as a warrior, and also the noble ability. That makes him "worthy" whatever that may be. As far as appearance, back then, comics were these self-contained stories. So for Bill, I had to do this in short form.

Same that that makes most DC heroes unworthy: They refuse to do the right thing by putting rabid lunatics down for good with a well-placed headshot. Instead they have the repeat insane murderers locked-up for a week until they escape and kill a few hundred people again, re-capture and re-lock-up, and repeat ad nauseam.
They're not superheroes, they're enablers.

Fully serious Superman > Thor
But i can see pretty much Thor overcome Superman 8 out of 10 because Thor is a warrior who has no fear of going wild. Superman is constantly terrified of the idea of doing so.

But I mean, Thor just returned from death shortly after the end of Civil War. The current Thor is a fucking pussy that Superman would destroy.

Name all the great villains killed by Thor.

Manchester Black, fuck off.

Because the hammer is a symbol for true responsibility, and sometimes that means being brutal, cruel, or down right murderous. All things the real Supes isn't into.

>Being "worthy" means being brutal and cruel
>Wives constantly cheat on their husbands with serial killers
>Serial killers are constantly invited to join the Avengers and the X-Men
>Heroes trust child-torturer facist dictators to raise their children
The Marvel Universe is awful.

>The Marvel Universe is awful.

It is, not ironically.

Busiek wanting to soften the blow from Superman whipping Thor.

Superman lacking a warrior’s heart and a killer instinct. He’s Picard, not Worf.

There's not a single political party referenced in that story though

Pretty sure Supes was still massively depowered during this comic. Superman and many other powerhouses in DC were tuned way down in the late 80's all the way to the mid to late 90's. There would be a story here or there that would have them be OP but most authors tried to keep it to a minimum. I mean no planet moving feats, instead Superman could move mountains and the rest of the heroes could move smaller mountains.

So if this comic was the one written in the 90's like it looks in the art, except for no mulletman. Superman would have been severely nerfed. As for Thor I didn't follow his run in the 90's I think it was because he was replaced by some no name guy. I didn't start reading Thor again until he came back after Ragnarok.

But Power levels are stupid since they change based on the writer. Usually out of respect for Superman being the first "caped" hero he is usually seen as the physically toughest and most durable of non God like entities such as one beyond all etc. Occasionally writers will use both Thor and Superman to job in order for the new threat to be seen as scary and big.

Sorry for the mini rant I loved Superman in the 90's shitty death and rebirth and all.

He's not a literally cancerous feminist cunt.

If you seriously think they won't relate the KKK story to modern politics you are brain dead

That's from JLA/Avengers by Busiek/Perez. Came out in the mid 2000s if I remember right.

God the art looks like late 90s and not in a good way.

>Perez well that explains the 80's/90's look. Most of the comics I read in that era were done by him. Specifically Superman comics.

Superman was being nice because he recognized that he just BTFO the other team's champion.

>tfw never heard of this comic until my English teacher got me all 4 issues as a grad present
This shit blew my damn mind as a kid. I know it isn't the greatest ever, but I would kill for another one, just for some new interactions. Have no clue for who should write/draw it, though.

Didn't he and his friends kill everyone in the TT's pocket universe?

Wasn't that the big take away from Busiek's JLA/Avengers? That Marvel is the superhero universe version of Baltimore?

simply wait for Disney to eat WB too. They will remain separate universes. Sooner or later someone will buy all the toys.

Kind of. The Justice League assume the Marvel heroes must be catastrophic fuckups if the people of their world shit on them so much. As always, Superman is completely right

It was explained that Cap and Superman were high-strung because they were being pushed to by Krona and Gamemaster.

But Superman ended up completely justified--CW I and II, AvX, Hickman's Avengers, etc, etc...