DC Comics ruined Harley Quinn
DC Comics ruined Harley Quinn
Jayden Richardson
Samuel Lee
Some of Amanda Conner's stuff is alright and fun.
Justin Roberts
The Suicide Squad movie put jet fuel into that coffin.
Tyler Martin
DC Comics ruined [insert character here].
Ain't just Harley, user. Didio and friends are incompetent fucks.
Robert Richardson
The success of the Arkham games got that ball rolling
Ayden Flores
>DC RUINED HARLEY QUINN
>by making her one of the most popular character they have
Logan Thomas
Harley is actually better now than she ever was before. She's easily the best character in that entire universe. Easily beats every Marvelshit character that isn't Spider-Man or Ms. Marvel as well.
Nolan Carter
No, Rocksteady and casuals did. Harley has been dead ever since this happened . Now we have the shitty imposter we know today.
Evan Barnes
she's even bigger than superman at this point
Jack Morris
Yeah but she makes the incels of this board insecure so she sucks now.
Tyler Stewart
Asylum isn't the cause, City is.
Liam Sanchez
Because she’s popular and not just a lackey of the Joker now? More Harley for me. Go cry in a corner, OP.
Luis Wood
This.
Evan Howard
by making her their most popular character
its amazing how dumb Yea Forums has become
Angel Powell
Ill take nu harley and everything that has come with her since 2011 vs old harley and her basically being Joker's sidekick and being in limbo half the time
Austin Bennett
Name four good Harley stories from the post new 52 era and tell me what you liked about them.
Parker Clark
Superman is undergoing a period of nobody giving a shit about him
whereas Harley is undergoing a period of DC thrusting her everywhere
She is their biggest character because she makes them money not because people like her
Dylan Turner
You're like six years too late
Thomas Cook
I'd hate modern Harley Quinn a considerable amount less if she was drawn with her classic costume more instead of the slutty new one.
Liam Morales
>yfw Harley was literally only ever a good character when Sorkin was voicing her
Chase Reed
>Actually wanting a comic book character to look like a comic book character
That is crazy talk user.
Robert Sullivan
That era of Harley yeah, she was decent in her comics as well.
Christian Mitchell
Is that pie?
Robert Rogers
Waypool ruined her.
Blake Carter
I miss her.
Nicholas Stewart
She can be both, look at Batman and his Robins.
Isaiah Roberts
The one that comes to mind right off the bat is Harleywood. Placing Harley into an environment where even she herself is amazed sometimes (like with that Wonder Woman prostitute) was a brilliant move because there was finally something to anchor even her personality. Both issues are really great but the icing on the cake is how the story gets resolved; when after all the kookiness, Harley uses her knowledge as a professional psychiatrist to mend the bond between a mother and her daughter. There is so little in comics of "working people just doing their professions very well", especially working women. And she's more entertaining to watch doing her thing than Lois Lane, for that matter.
Another is the one where the assistant (I think) to the Mayor of Coney Island sends a squad of commandos to shoot up Harley and her sideshow gang; and she beats them, and then the assistant guy is in a helicopter, and the chopper goes haywire, and Harley makes the guy jump out of the helicopter and break both his legs by jumping on the front of it from a rooftop and convincing him that the potato on a fork that she stuck on the windshield is actually a bomb in like, one sentence.
The great thing about post-Nu52 Harley is that the comics finally take advantage of her greatest asset: her unpredictability. Most of the time, nobody, not even the reader can tell if Harley knows something the reader or another character does or does not. In Suicide Squad as well: she is at her best when you can't tell if she's got a plan or just acting on her crazy; nor the line that separates the two.
Anthony Ramirez
Harley was never any good. At least now she's fappable.
Brody Green
Again, I maintain that the best Harley Quinn stories ever told are actually Bride of Chucky and Seed of Chucky- Tiffany is more or less a perfect encapsulation of what Harley as a character should be like, someone who can be both monstrous and sympathetic simultaneously, flipping back and forth between being good and bad. Part of the problem is that contemporary DC treats Harley as just a good girl who got caught up in a bad crowd, and doesn't let her actually have a villainous side that's necessary for her to be well-rounded as a character. There are two noticeable scenes in both movies where Tiffany brutally murders people entirely of her own volition, not acting under Chucky's influence. In Seed she's arguably the real villain of the film, since it's her selfish ambitions that drive the film's plot. She's so busy chasing this storybook life where she's a major movie star with a wonderful loving daughter that she's overlooking not only what her own husband wants, but also her son's serious gender issues: when she tries to leave Chucky at the end of the film, she does it because Chucky finally learning to accept himself for who he is doesn't work for her selfish desires. Even though Chucky's homicidal response is totally unwarranted, it doesn't absolve Tiffany, because *she's a shitty person too*. Tiffany thinks she's the heroine of the movie, but it's actually Glenn, who she entirely neglects.
So in conclusion, my plan to save Harley Quinn would mean 1) letting her act shitty of her own volition and 2) having Jennifer Tilly play her.
Chase Baker
>Posting Injustice
Way to point out you have shit taste and have no idea what original Harley was about
Elijah Watson
Amanda Conner's stuff is what ruined her.
Before that self misogynist with internalized sexism we had not objectificated female characters
Jayden Adams
Friendly reminder that hero/anti-hero Quinn shouldn't exist and is just plain wrong. If you want her redeemed, you want Doctor Quinzel. Harley only exists when driven mad by her infatuation with The Joker. But then DC couldn't market clown fapbait.
Nathan Edwards
>Friendly reminder that hero/anti-hero Quinn shouldn't exist and is just plain wrong
Friendly reminder that this is a casual incel take and that even the creator of Harley puts her in the anti-hero category.
Camden Jackson
You think she bites down on the fork loudly like the James Franco gif?
Robert Howard
The only casual here is (You), and you need to get more buzzwords into your vocabulary. Furthermore, only certain creators say bad shit about what their creations have become because it's a good way to get blacklisted in the industry
Liam Johnson
No, the casual here is still you. There is an actual episode that shows Harley redeemed and she didn't revert back to Harleen.
Jaxon Lee
Are you retarded? The last instance of Harley in the DCAU was Batman Beyond: The Return of The Joker. There she helped Joker torture Tim for weeks, warped his mind, and only quit because that same night Joker died. Fuck off
Aiden Carter
Really awesome discussion guys, your opinions must be very important to the industry...
Matthew Cook
Her good art can't compensate for how the company itself has ruined the character. She somewhat salvaged the character with a better design from the awful one that came before, but it still is distancing itself too much from the original character.
Owen Richardson
Return of the Joker was garbage.
Ian Price
And she suffer zero consequences because Timm and Dini view her as sympathetic.
Blake Adams
I don't get why they want Harley to become a hero. I know characters need to evolve, even in the stagnant storytelling of eternal corporate superhero comics. Yet what's wrong with keeping a female villain as a villain. What? Women can't be evil? Why can't Harley just be a decent villain. She doesn't have to be a mass murderer that kills kids by putting bombs in their Game Boy systems. (Though DC did do that, on her 20th anniversary no less.) Yet she can still maintain her role as a villain.
Lincoln Sanders
A sane Harley is Harleen
A insane Harley is still Harley but she can be good
Luke Stewart
>Amanda Conner's stuff is what ruined her.
Oh no. She was ruined well before Conner came on board. If anything, Conner somewhat salvaged her from being even worse. Look at how awful the Jim Lee New52 redesign was.
Owen Gray
She was always an anti hero away from the Joker
once she's outside his influence she is typically harmless to slightly annoying as a villain
Brayden Torres
Conner's is still bad, and I don't even blame her for it, but she made it much better than Harley was before she came on board.
Brody Hall
She's a psycho who wouldnt hesitate to kill your mom. You can make a character deep without making them sympathic. Dini and Timm are weird.
Luke Russell
Only corporate synergy from the shitty movie drove them to add the awful blue and pink shit.
Juan Howard
That was dumb but he was mostly basing her new look on the popular nurse lolita outfits from the arkham games
Andrew Robinson
It's for self-inserting autists mostly. When a villain becomes really popular, they often begin to show redeeming qualities because the publisher wants market them as much as possible. "Look, they could be a hero too" is just a ploy for more money.
>She can be good
That's the tragedy of what Harley Quinn is. She COULD be good.
Timm and Dini sold out
Eli Young
Plus DC editorial has cornered her into being their own Deadpool for some fucking reason.
Never mind that Deadpool has been shit for years and years over at Marvel too.
Matthew Robinson
>She's a psycho who wouldnt hesitate to kill your mom
What makes you think you know the character better than the actual creators?
Isaac Long
Harley has done nothing to prove she's actually crazy, her crazyness used to come from the fact that she fooled herself into actually thinking the Joker cared about her, now she's just a "random xD" bitch.
Now she's not crazy, she's just a fucking asshole.
Ryan Nelson
that hairstlye from the movie makes more sense than an even tone red and blue split down the middle when she was supposedly thrown in the same vat of chemicals as the Joker.
If it was supposed to be sensible then she would have green hair
Samuel Collins
>Harley has done nothing to prove she's actually crazy
Neither has the joker but he still is.
Camden Mitchell
I don't know what Lee was basing it on. The Gothic Lolita outfit was from Arkham Knight, which came out four years later. The earlier Arkham games had the nurse and shitty biker Harley, which is more like this. Yet Lee and company just made Harley look even trashier than those horrible Rockstready designs. This garbage was just off the rails.
Brayden Lewis
we are getting some good stuff now that the people who actually like Harley are getting a crack at writing her
Landon Gray
This was the only good Harley story to come out in recent years
(You) were told already, now fuck off
Caleb Morris
Then the movie came along and also ripped off Debby Harry and Yolandi from Die Antwoord. Why the fuck do they use things other than comics for their designs? Oh yeah. So they can make separate movie merchandise that mindless consumer "nerds" will buy. Simon Pegg was right.
Joseph Johnson
It depends on how good the pie is or if she's purposely trying to annoy someone.
Jackson Jones
Because gun moll/battered housewife in a clown suit can only be done so many times. It's why they made Freeze an obsessive creep for a year or had his wife come back as a fire elemental. Once a character has their big story, it's just boring to read it over and over again. Pre New 52 Harley was barely a villain, anyway.
Noah Russell
No buddy, you fuck off with your cowardice bullshit.
>oh no this guy is making too much sense.
Cooper Walker
We're getting spaghetti on the wall. There is a glut of Harley and Joker shit, somehow more than ever. Any decent Harley books and art will be drowned out by all the garbage.
Carson Sanchez
no she is legit insane and suffers from mental illness
She portrays herself as an lol xd random girl because that's a form of manipulation she uses to have people not take her seriously
This is like a basic aspect of her personality
Logan Harris
>cowardice
Again, only a few people in this industry will openly badmouth creative decisions. The field is built on nepotism, and badmouthing NuHarley is essentially a good way to get blacklisted. So eat a dick you contrarian fuck
Levi Harris
The thing that bothers me is how she looks like a trashy juggalo goth while Joker still keeps his old school design
It makes them way too different to work together , it's why I don't blame SS for making Jared's Joker the way he is , at least he and Harley look like partners now
Charles Harris
Gotham seems to have a loose definition of what "Insanity" means.
Zachary Hill
But user, this sympathetic anti-hero Harley started with Timm and Dini.
Jordan Wood
Just because corporate cape comics can become stale, that doesn't mean shock value stories that say "everything you know is wrong!" is the answer. Maybe they're using the character too much if they've become tired. Heaven forbid there is any editorial oversight over these characters. I am sick of DC making more is more. DC doesn't know how to regulate the use of their characters. They have no sensible editorial discretion when it comes to character use. They are just going to let authors use whatever characters they think are popular. These authors use them however they want and toss more spaghetti on the messy source wall.
Aaron Cruz
What the fuck is this?!
How do fans of the super sons feel about this crap?
Jayden Morales
>Joker kept his original design
did you miss when he cut off his face and wore it like a mask
Ian Stewart
>while Joker still keeps his old school design
Brandon Martinez
You and every other hack writer don't understand real mental health and give armchair diagnosis. Harley isn't insane, because she's completely aware of what's real, and what's right and wrong. She's just a huge cunt.
No, Harley is supposed to be sympathetic in the sense that you know she could be a good person is she got her act together and stopped obsessing over The Joker. "Good Harley" is just Harleen, which means no clown gimmick or anything. Since DC can't market that, they decided to have their cake and eat it too by making Harley a goddamn looney tune
Nathaniel Roberts
No one is defending no face joker but what OP is complaining is what helped Harley get away from that 2edgy4u bullshit.
Michael Rivera
The problem is that DC doesn't know how to modernise their iconic characters without changing them
I honestly don't know why they don't just make new characters if they Want "Modern" characters instead of changing iconic characters
Bentley Green
>while Joker still keeps his old school design
and even the comics had their shitty redesigns, like that Leatherface ripoff bullshit
John Adams
>Good Harley" is just Harleen
That's bullshit according to the goddamn creators of the character. She doesn't go back to Harleen, she stays as Harley.
Cooper Long
If only DC would commit to mixing old and new so both fans would be happy and usher in a new era of Harley dominance
Jose Gomez
I already mentioned Jared's Joker as an exception
I forgot about that Joker
Nathan Allen
Considering she is more popular now more than ever, did they?
Joseph Peterson
did you at least finish reading the post
Comics Joker looks nothing like SS Joker
Ryder Hall
>If I keep repeating myself over and over and ignore everything else said, I'm sure to win the argument!
Oliver Wilson
>The problem is that DC doesn't know how to modernise their iconic characters without changing them
>I honestly don't know why they don't just make new characters if they Want "Modern" characters instead of changing iconic characters
This. A hundred times this. DC should work best with their classic iconic characters. They should be the opposite of Marvel. If they want new designs and new characters, they should make legacy heroes. Aside from killing off Ted, Jaimie as Blue Bettle is a great example. If it didn't sell well, I think it was more on DC's shitty marketing of it. Plus killing off a great mentor character in a shitty crossover didn't help.
Noah Morales
i don't want anything new about harley, it's all shit
Brandon Reed
>Sexy Joker
Jesus fucking Christ.
Hunter Myers
SeeBeing redeemed wouldn't change her back to Harleen. She would still be Harley. Your premise is baseless.
Elijah Brooks
If they wanted to modernize Harley, she should have just went back to being Dr. Quinzel and acted as a superhero therapist. Heroes In Crisis was dogshit, but it admittedly had a small nugget of a good idea buried in there; heroes dealing with the stress of being heroes. I would have liked to see Harleen sitting down with Justice League members, building trust, and both her and them getting to a better place.
But we can't have shit like that.
Thomas Perez
True. I should have also quoted the idea that Leto's Joker was in any way a good idea. Making him just as shitty looking as Harley doesn't make it better. Also, I just love posting this awful awful design that was made for a multi-million dollar international film. Even for a comic book with a readership of under 200,000 units sold, those horrible designs would probably be rejected. Somehow the idiots at Warners thought this Joker was a great design to be part of their brand new DC Cinematic Universe. Is it any wonder their DC superhero film franchise is in the toilet while goddamn Marvel is on phrase 5 of a successful series of films. I am very fucking jelly.
Landon Jenkins
And you're a shitposting faggot who keeps using shit from New 52 onwards and being willfully ignorant. Have a final (You), and fuck off.
Brody Barnes
Though, really, they better get some focus on Harley and Ivy with that artist involved.
Blake Gonzalez
Daily reminder that Harley killed a fuck load of people yet everyone in Justice League is somehow cool with it now for some reason
Michael Parker
I thought it was a great design, and didn't this movie won a Oscar?
Easton Williams
That user wasn't saying it was a good design, he was saying that at least Harley and Joker matched somewhat, since they both looked trashy and shitty.
Carter Smith
..or create another doctor to compare and contrast with Harley. Maybe have a book about a female therapist trying to undo the damage Harley did among supervillains, or one trying to do super heroes. I dunno. Yeah, there was a good idea there. Yet do you trust anyone at DC to do it properly? Sure the fuck not Tom King. I cannot believe how bad that series was and how hyped it was by the company.
Brody Robinson
Darkseid is currently on a JL team right now so they've pretty much lost the moral anything ground.
Jeremiah Walker
>Oscars
>being a decent judge of quality and not just bullshit studio politics
Liam Rodriguez
Harley isn't insane
She suffers from PTSD from all the beatings Joker heaped on her
Leo Harris
Joker looks like that one nigga from Tokyo Ghoul
Just like with Harley I don't understand why they don't just make new characters if they wanna go with that design
Imagine some young couple who want to be the next Harley and Joker but with their own identities while the actual Joker and Harley doubt them
Then again that failed with Redhood
Noah Perry
I disagree.
Arkham Asylum ruined Harley Quinn
Camden Wood
Odyssey isn't really a team, it's a bunch of cancelled comic characters being Darkdommed.
Luke Rivera
Nice false equivalence retard.
Blake Thompson
I think it's a stronger character arc to have Quin go back to her roots as a doctor, going from crazed supervillain back to healer. It gives her new perspective, and a excuse to attone.
She's also not without guilt and consequence. She willfully murdered, and aided a known killer
James Price
NostalgiaFag for the Whine.
Ethan Green
In DC there is no moral quandary about anything
Lobo and Darkseid have been on the JL and they have both killed billions
Lucas Allen
She got redeemed in the cartoon and she didn't turn back to Harleen.
She got redeemed in the post-crisis and din'd turn back to Harleen.
You have to nothing to go on but your own casual take.
Austin Taylor
Harley is already a modern character genius.
Robert Hernandez
I was using their terminology, numbnuts
Carson Brown
>She got redeemed in the cartoon and she didn't turn back to Harleen.
HA! Bullshit. She quit after Joker died you casual fuck. Why act willfully stupid just for cheap Yous?
Wyatt Torres
She didn't turn back to Harleen, the twins still called her Harley.
Jordan Gray
It's a nickname and the only way the audience would put two and two together given how fucking old she was. Barbra literally states in the movie she was never seen again after the fall. Quit being stupid
Jonathan Ward
You quit being fucking stupid, Harley is still Harley even after being redeemed in the post crisis comics. You don't know jack shit about what you're talking about.
Brayden Barnes
Czarnian Lives Matter
Julian Anderson
Harley is just Girl Memepool now.
Easton Hernandez
Reminder that Batman and Lobo are the best of friends.
Sebastian Nelson
You're a goddamn broken record
Tyler White
And you have been proven wrong multiple times.
Gavin Reyes
Yeah you keep telling yourself that.
Joshua Cooper
Quinn ruined Quinn.
Caleb Rivera
Trust no one...