I liked Endgame Thanos in a sense. He's a scary bastard but he's just an inferior character to what he was in IW after he gained the Soul Stone. By killing the one that actually did the snap off to be replaced by his bloodthirsty younger self, they robbed the film of multiple satisfying things that comes with the villain.
The villain has less, less personal history with the Avengers so there's less pathos, less of a feel this is round two (or three, if you count the first Avengers), his interactions with them have much less weight considering he's just intent on murdering them (and with glee to boot. He was having an evilgasm when he was close to killing Thor with Stormbreaker) rather than having it all tinged with some degree of regret and respect, and, the worst offense, it's much less satisfying when he finally is defeated and he and his army disintegrate.
It's not a 'Yes, he is FINALLY beaten after long last' because we was already unceremoniously slaughtered in the beginning. I really cannot help but feel as if they should have had Thanos from IW survive and the entire b plot during the time heist is him reforming his army for a massive invasion of Earth, which gives the film a sense of urgency is lacked for like 3/4ths of it.
I disagree vehemently. It positioned Thanos as more than mortal, a force, an inevitably. A problem to solve. Not just one corporeal body.
Jace Howard
Just imagine the final battle being against a half scarred thanos, who’s missing an arm from destroying the stones and had to replace it with a robot one.
"You couldn't live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me."
Brody Bennett
I always saw Thanos as one contiguous character who had to evolve his goals when he saw the flaws of his plan and the emotion behind his motives began to shine through when challenged but I feel like a minority.
He was a good villain, much better than I was initially expecting given how pared down some MCU villains were (like Malekith).
Bentley Green
I guess this is just a matter of what you naturally 'feel' upon watching the film. I take your point but I just felt a disconnected after they killed the IW one and shoved in his 2014 self and didn't get the sense it was building up and up to this crescendo.
Nathaniel Turner
“My daughters death will not be in vain, Stark. I allowed you to live before, and you’ve squandered my mercy on a fools errand. I will shred this universe down to its last atom, and build something new, something pure, and when I’m done... Nobody will remember you.”
Nathan Hill
They could have had him destroy the stones and be scarred (albeit maybe not to the degree he was in the actual film) and still beat the heroes when they come to his turf, including using his brains to wreck Marvel and them surviving out of mercy. Nebula stays behind out of pity for Thanos, when they make the time machine they require some piece from the Benatar to make it work which had some link to Nebula's tech (reason doesn't have to be great desu) which makes her involuntarily spaz out and hologram their efforts, Thanos realises what's up, Nebula escapes whilst he's brooding and basically monologuing to himself in an unhinged state about how he's gonna tear Earth a part, and there you have it: same Thanos from IW is the villain, that stupid 2014 Nebula and Gamora plot is removed, the film has a big sense of urgency with Thanos gathering up a massive invasion force, and Thanos doing his thing is the b plot, which people would have loved. Could have had him having those conversations with Gamora in the Soul Stone too constantly pushing him further into an unhinged state. I just think they dropped the ball with Thanos in EG. Even casuals treat the one in IW and EG like separate characters, with IW being the clear favourite.
Joshua Rodriguez
I feel like there has to be some essence of rage in that. To bring such "blessing" into the universe then not only defied but undone. Above all else, Thanos wants to be right at any cost. Be it sacrificing Gamora, permanently and excruciatingly injuring himself, or whatever else. When he succeeds and has that victory undone, it should send him over the edge.
Juan Thomas
This is a nice missing contrast, Tony didn't want to undo the snap in fear of losing Morgan. Yet he made the conscious decision to take that risk.
Another thing that I think it missed was Hydra making a comeback and helping Thanos thinking the new universe will be them on top.
Julian Lewis
The key phrase to Thanos is "I am inevitable."
Both the IW and EG Thanoses said it and it is the bridge that makes them one in the same to me. Thanos needs the validation that his solution is and will always be the only one. No matter what it takes, be it removal of half the universe or a completely new one that is balanced from the off, the only outcome must be a universe with half as many beings as there are presently.
You tell him that it's not the way, there is no quarter, he will have your head. So "killing everyone and making a new universe" is still in character as far as I'm concerned because the emotion of thinking he is always right will always cloud any reasoning with him.
Easton Brooks
It's a shame Tony did, by far, the least in the big three vs. Thanos fight. It'd be cool if the initial fight was all of the remaining Avengers vs. Thanos before he wrecks them and the portals open and then the final bit before Tony snaps is just the big three vs. Thanos. There could have been some cool team ups too when it comes to destroying his big warship, like Captain Marvel supercharging Stormbreaker, Thor fires it but it's only hitting and exploding the barrage of missles till Scarlet Witch holds them in place, and then he hits the ship with the supercharged Stormbreaker and destroys it. Ergo destroying the warship is a team up.
OF COURSE, it's very easy for us to type this given hindsight and not having to do all hard work everyone else did but Endgame isn't one of those films where I can think of nothing I'd add or not want to change, so here's my spitballing bullshit.
Jaxon Sanchez
>You tell him that it's not the way, there is no quarter, he will have your head. So "killing everyone and making a new universe" is still in character as far as I'm concerned because the emotion of thinking he is always right will always cloud any reasoning with him. I'd be fine with IW Thanos coming to this insane conclusion too, but the insanity of his intentions and rage is bolstered when the character is better by carrying the burden of killing Gamora, having more history with the Avengers, etc
Jonathan Sanchez
I was hoping Thor would tell Spider-Man to grab Mjolnir, then Thor would throw Mjolnir with spidey still holding on to it, basically helping him fly to the destination
Cameron Flores
Which is fine, I agree to some extent. There just always has to be that "I was right," grounding behind it.
Titan fell because his people overconsumed and drove themselves to extinction when Thanos laid out a plan to save them. So he's right and everyone else is wrong, full stop. If his original plan fails (it did), he will find a way to make that plan work.
The additional baggage would add to the gravitas but not change anything, ultimately.
Hunter Rogers
Did anyone else feel like the final battle in Endgame was extremely tacked on? It's like it was only there to make up for the fact that 90% of the movie has no fighting.
>gravitas That's all I would want to add, really. The gravitas, the very satisfying feel when the guy being defeated is the one they fought from the beginning, did the snap, stabbed Tony, killed Gamora, etc.
Plus, as I feel hasn't been discussed much, not killing IW Thanos adds a urgency throughout the entire second act with him reforming his army to invade Earth. The whole 'MCU greatest hits' thing befits the 'fight of our lives' thing if they know Thanos is coming.
Jackson Stewart
Honestly yeah I was kind of let down.
I has hoping for things to be on the same level as the Battle of Titan, where the heroes combined their powers for interesting combinations, and some characters got their 1vs1 to showcase their strength, and it showed off uses for the infinity stones in combat.
It should've been much longer.
Chase Robinson
Again, if IW Thanos survives, that means we'd get a fight pretty early on with him vs. the Avengers at his farm and the final battle is building up since the end of 1st or beginning on 2nd act with Thanos REEEing and regathering his army.
But the main problem with the final battle is the masses fighting gets old. After that 1 minute or so single travelling shot of all the various heroes fighting, loses its charm and seeing a handful of heroes vs. Thanos become much more entertaining. After seeing the armies clash initially, the final battle basically being intercut between one group of heroes trying to destroy the warship and another handful of heroes fighting Thanos personally with all the other shit just being background chaos would have been better I'd have thought.
David Gomez
>Avengers enter The Garden and finds this Thanos >they instead leave disappointed and not kill Thanos >5 years later and Thanos sees and realizes that he was wrong all along >same movie happens >Young Thanos is still the villain >Young Thanos stomps >Old Thanos beams down just in time to face Young Thanos >O.Thanos tries to reason to his younger self, but he refuses to listen and beats his older self and chastises him for being weak and vowing never to turn like him >O. Thanos smiles >"Its inevitable" >Thanos continues to stomp on O.Thanos and finally gets the gauntlet just like in the movie >tries to snap >fails >reveal that O.Thanos has somehow transferred the stone to Stark just like what happened >Thanos is once again beaten by his greatest enemy, himself.
>when I’m done... Nobody will remember you That would have been great.
Jayden Scott
Where would thanos get a new army?
Samuel Thompson
This only works well if you want Thanos to be the main character like he was in EG. If the Avengers are front and centre, I'd say avoid this approach and go for IW Thanos surviving and being the villain.
Jonathan Sanders
But what would make Thanos reflect and realize he was wrong? At least from where I’m sitting his strategy buried itself so deep into his psyche that he’d always make an excuse for why things need to be as they are. Doesn’t matter if everything went to shit in the five years since he destroyed half the universe or that people’s lives have been ruined, it’s still “better” than the outcome that reality was facing without his action.
Caleb Cruz
yeah i wish Thor, Hulk and Doctor Strange had a bit more to do in the fight. Also Drax
Connor Lewis
Yeah, it was like 20 minutes of fanservice Kinda like the rest of the movie, where every character not on Thanos' side has plot armor because they just came back to life. I'll admit I was terrified of the prospect of Thanos winning the first time I saw it, but after a few rewatches, the stakes really weren't there.
Aaron White
Just have him return to the space region we see in Avengers and GotG to find what remains of his forces in tatters but enough to reform something of an force to destroy Earth. Hell, that makes sense from an autistic logic level too if you take Bruce's 'he has the biggest army in the universe' quote as accurate, cause the one we see in EG was not that. It would have to exceed a million just to beat Earth standards let alone others like Kree and shit.
Tyler Richardson
Well it is a two-part movie where the villain won in the first half. What else could there have been but a spectacular ass-kicking?
Jace Butler
Not guy and not sure I'd veer in on 'fanservice' as a complaint, but most all expected that. Portals scene is so beloved cause of this reason, but the final battle could have been much better with more coherence I believe. Chaotic army fighting gets old after the initial clash, so have the chaos being the background stuff with very brief cuts of heroes killing and shit with the spine of the final battle being one group of heroes taking down the warship and another fighting Thanos in a longer, drawn out battle
Bentley Wright
Thanos from the end of Endgame was ruthless and had never learned to respect Ironman and the team of avengers because he never went through the events of Infinity War "I hope they remember your name" thanos never came about ; it's the arrogant world killer that wanted the gems at any cost.
I think it's almost better that he lost that sensitivity to his rivals so he could bring the fight and want to destroy the earth. The end game thanos wanted to destroy EVERYTHING so the stakes were higher than just being balanced.
Lincoln Robinson
IW Thanos could have wanted to destroy everything too after realising there's a time heist plot. But there would be more gravitas, personal history, we could have vision of Gamora making him more unhinged, etc. Some user above already highlighted a missed opportunity by not doing this, as IW Thanos could have said to Tony something like 'nobody will remember you' as an example of some line reincorporation.
Grayson Moore
That’s the one-dimensional way of looking at it that separates the two Thanos characters when really they are one.
Also the Endgame Thanos only wanted to destroy everything because his vision had been defied. He already knew that his counterpart had won but he was seeing the reality that resulted. That is why it ultimately would have made no difference. IW Thanos just didn’t live long enough to witness what he created and the countermeasure he inspired. No one gets to undo his life’s work, period.
Eli Reed
okay when i opened the thread I disagreed, but you've made a believer of me
Benjamin Bailey
>The whole 'MCU greatest hits' thing befits the 'fight of our lives'
this was the worst thing about the film, and as much as i appreciate the fan service, there was a better way to execute that
Ayden Sanders
I’m not sure how much it would have helped but in one of the earlier drafts, Endgame Thanos would have first traveled to Earth, killed all the Avengers there, then brought their bodies to the prime universe Avengers.
Though I’m glad they didn’t go that route. Although it would have made him look like a badass it would undermine his “you have forced me to this point” characterization.
Joseph Nguyen
>I’m not sure how much it would have helped but in one of the earlier drafts, Endgame Thanos would have first traveled to Earth, killed all the Avengers there, then brought their bodies to the prime universe Avengers.
yeah, I loved that detail, but it may have been too much.
The thing with EG is, at the end of the part, it's part 2 of a two parter, and I'm not sure theres any real satisfying way to have the stakes high enough but the heroes still win satisfyingly, because IW is Thanos' film, and he fucking won. The only way to possibly do that is to make one character the protagonist of EG, and no doubt that would've been Tony, and every Avengers (and spider-man) has been about Tony.
Making Thanos the protagonist of EG would've worked but I dont think it'd be satisfying for the viewer.
Now, IW is essentially a battle between Thor and Thanos as the protagonist (and obviously Thanos wins that) and so I could maaaayyybe see where Thor as the protagonist of EG could work, but EG Thor is far too broken and defeated, and I'm not sure I would change that. The man has lost EVERYTHING T W I C E
Oliver Gonzalez
Thanos is such an overrated character anyway. Joker still outclasses him in real character complexity.
Brody Murphy
>I bore witness to my own demise...I shall now share that privilege with you...
Bentley Wilson
It was obligatory. 20 movies of buildup. Everyone wanted it. The last third of Endgame is just a long string of fanservice moments and the miracle is that it still holds up.
Chase Rogers
The story wouldn't have worked if IW Thanos didn't die at the beginning, it sold the 5 years of hopelessness aspect; they've killed the bad guy but they still lost and now there's nothing to be done except drown in their depression. I can really appreciate how they bridged the two Thanos by allowing one witness the other Thanos' death giving him a whole new viscous mindset for the climax. I wouldn't have changed anything here, no where in the final fight did I think "this doesn't feel like Thanos!" it very much was him.
Thomas Richardson
I hope they bring him back to help fight Magus. The Church of Universal Truth would be a nice GotG plotline, and they can finally do Lady Death.
Only if they have Adam in the clown World simulation first
Jose Richardson
The finale was amazing but honestly, it could've done with 10-15 more minutes of action.
Andrew Myers
I just wanted more character interactions. But a movie that gave every character a chance to have a meaningful interaction with every other character that would satisfy me would be seven hours long.
Jonathan Hill
Bait
Joseph Diaz
Truth. Joker has been itched in pop culture from the 60's onwards and has been in multiple films, cartoons, and comics. Until IW Thanos was a footnote in the minds of comic and film watchers. This is why Thanos will never be a Darth Vader.
Lucas Allen
I think the idea behind Thanos in Endgame was that just like the Avengers trying to make up for their failure in Infinity War, he was trying to make up for what he felt was his other versions failure. Basically, he saw the Avengers killing his "succesful" version and came to the conclusion that that version of his must have been too moderate.
Joseph Jones
>This is why Thanos will never be a Darth Vader. This is the first time Thanos has been on-screen in Live action, Joker has been on TV since the 60s, and the Jack Nicholson Joker has 30 years on Thanos.
But considering Thanos was the villain in 2 films with a decade of build up, and for the better part of a year the general public was allowed to believe Thanos won, I dont think Thanos will have any problem reaching vader levels of pop culture mythology, even with the massive differences in the way pop culture functions now
Carson Wilson
>I just wanted more character interactions.
I really just wanted to Sam and Bucky and Wanda get to interact with more people. But at least Wanda got a moment to almost singlehandedly whip Thanos.
based Wanda
Logan Garcia
>The finale was amazing but honestly, it could've done with 10-15 more minutes of action.
I dont disagree, everyone fighting random mooks wasn't all that enjoyable.
Once Wanda BTFO it was pretty much over because we know the heroes have the power
Cameron Reyes
It's not only that he's a time-travel copy which is dumb and contrived. It's that he as a person seems less complicated. Infinity War Thanos >I'm sorry Little One >My Gamora! >I had to! >I take it that Maw is dead? This day extracts a heavy toll. >The hardest choices require the strongest wills.
Endgame Thanos >I'll destroy the whole universe and make a new one out of spite- I'm not even going to delude myself about not being evil
Also Nebula didn't get her big moment and that's fuckin gay
I don't know why they didn't have some of the Avengers fight the Black Order. It gives a chance for the less powerful guys to do their thing.
Parker Foster
If it was true fanservice Hydra, Ultron, Kree, Sovreign and all of the Avenger's enemies would want in on helping Thanos in exchange for domination of the new galaxy.
Grayson Sanders
I mean Endgame kind of hurt Thanos reaching Vader level. No redemption
Ryan Taylor
>No redemption could you imagine Endgame having Thanos see the world he left behind and then he's crushed by guilt and the weight of his failure? You know- like he was Thanos.
Uh huh. Read:. It's retarded Nebula did shit during the last fight once the portals begin opening.
Alexander Hill
Ralph Sepe Jr. is not a real man! Allow me to explain. 6 years ago I was hired to do some carpentry work on the set of a movie being made in the backwoods of Georgia. My crew and I were tasked with building a house which would be burnt down at the end of the movie. The job seemed to be pretty straightforward until my buddy started pointing out weird things about the floor plans. Secret rooms, a hidden tunnel, peep holes in the walls, just a lot of weird stuff. We figured ok whatever they maybe needed these things for the story or something. So we go about building this house. Halfway through this black limo pulls up to the set and Ralph Sepe Jr. pops out. He runs right up to me and starts screaming. "You idiot! You retard! These nails are iron they should not be iron!" And I remember he touched the nail and it seemed to burn him. Now that was really odd. He went around inspecting all the corners in the house. Specifically the corners. At this point I was legitimately spooked. It just didn't feel right. But the money was so good. My buddy and I stayed late trying to get the job done so we could get away from this place. It was at exactly midnight that we heard a howling sound coming from the woods right by the house.
I grabbed the glock from under my truck seat and when I turned around I saw him. Ralph Sepe Jr. Pail as a ghost with red glowing eyes. He opened his mouth and inhuman sound poured out. I fired off a couple rounds but they seemed to pass right through him. I yelled to my friend but he didn't respond. I had no choice but to leave him. I drove straight home, packed, and moved across country that night. I never heard from my friend again.
Sometimes I look at the news in the areas around that place. A couple small towns. There are always reports of missing children and pets and posters of Tarantino films covered in semen.
Christian Reyes
I don't care about your fanfiction you faggot
Owen Campbell
This would've been nice. I actually really liked them in IW and was hoping they'd get a bit of screen time in Endgame and while they were there, they hardly spoke or did anything. It would've been nice to see some of the heroes, like War Machine (who SORELY needed a really big, cool moment in the finale) take one of them on or something.
Noah Gomez
drax, spider-man, and ant-man team up to kill black dwarf I forget how the others die
Thomas Miller
Lack of Adam Warlock was what truly prevented Endgame from peak satisfying.
Juan Sullivan
Kinda but what could they do. They'd been hyping up a big final epic fight with every character for years, so they had to deliver.
Tyler Ortiz
This ending is better than everything the Russos could think to. And I'm mad this is closer to the comics than the movie
Leo Gutierrez
Nah, I still disagree. Thanos in Endgame was great. Ultimately what he did was provide consequences for the Avengers time traveling. They try to erase their mistakes but nearly risk the fate of the universe. It provides sufficient stakes that make the final fight engaging to watch.
He's also more cruel and barbaric. IW Thanos would be too pitiful as a "final boss" type character.
>Endgame Thanos was the only big element that prevented it from being peak satisfying as a finale That, and the shitty contrived Time Travel shit that should have been left completely out.
Easton Lopez
I know how I'd handle Thanos in EG by keeping the IW alive with time travel plot. How would you do EG with no time travel?
Brayden Robinson
thanos would never feel guilt
Dominic King
Someone missed that "young Thanos" saw it happen and smiled because he knew, eventually, he'd succeeded.
What made him mad was some upstarts seeing to undo what he had done.
Cooper Miller
Read a fucking comic, he does
Jose Taylor
when
Thomas Sanders
I was more amazed he didn't bring the Avenger's worst enemies to help him. Since they heard in that timeline they all died and sought their second chance to crush the Avengers and see this reality burn
Owen Robinson
He doesn't need redemption, he's like Frieza, he's just plain evil because he chooses to be.
Ryan Carter
The stakes just weren't there, the Avengers brought back would've had no issues defeating Thanos and his army even without using the Gauntlet, there was no need to dust them, and no need for Tony to sacrifice himself in the way he did.
I think the better way to handle it would've been to have Thanos invade before Hulk snapped everyone back, have the OG Avengers fight Thanos and his army alone and struggle, Tony gets his hands on the Gauntlet and brings everyone back in the fight, have the same battle but Avengers BTFO Thanos' forces through cooperation and their combined strength and not just magic space stones, Tony is weakened from the snap but continues to fight and either defeats Thanos with the Proton Cannon then succumbs to his state, or Thanos shrugs it off and everyone else as well, and Tony has to dust Thanos alone and you can have the same ending like the one we got, I liked Thanos' final scene and how quiet and peaceful it was, just not the circumstances surrounding it.
This would take care of two problems I had with the ending, which is the dampening of the battle after everyone is brought back, what should've been the triumphant Rohirrim charge ends up accomplishing jack shit; and the contrivance of Tony sacrificing himself to dust the ultimately inconsequential army, I think it would've been more poetic if he gave his life for everyone else's rather than just to kill some mooks and Thanos who was almost merked by Scarlet Witch.
Leo Sullivan
Ive assumed the whole time leading up to to endgame that they would fight him with the gauntlet. I mean that would be a better struggle than " lets time travel our way out of this " it would be " lets fight a fucking god you guys " . insted of fighting 2014 no gauntlet thanos, they should have had still had the time travel set up with antman , but insted of getting stones , the mission would be getting the other avangers back for the rematch ( doctor strange most importantly, black panther spiderman all the guardians so we can have a good conclusion with a decent drax vs thanos fight, gamora/nebula comfronting thanos one last time, and maybe) also while they get the old heros back via time travel , the living tribunal can be introduced finally by transporting the full avengers to his dimension saying " wait, us cosmic entities have a plan of our own, will will fight thanos first , weaken him, then you can Finnish it " just imagine it. Thanos vs. Cosmic gods just like the source material. Like the weird dr strange fight from infinity war but cranked up a notch in turns of visuals and creativity. Then the gods can either break or weaken the gauntlet, thus making thanos a beatable threat again to our heros. Then his final fight with the avengers will have more meaning than this whole "i dont even know who you are!!!!" bullshit. It could have been " you again!! I killed you all!!!! I beat you!!!! How can this be!!!!" then before cap lands the first punch he can say " because were the avengers! " or something cheesey like that. I mean its the final action packed marvel movie with the full avengers roster, cheesey cool shit like that would have been great
Levi Jackson
ANT-MAN 3!!!!!!!
Aiden Barnes
ANT-MAN THE WASP AND STATURE
Grayson Evans
ANT-MAN THE WASP AND YOUNG AVENGERS
Nathaniel Kelly
>the universe needed correction, after that, the stones served no purpose, beyond temptation! >Thanos is then overcome with temptation and attempts remaking the universe Was this intentional
