Why don't Americans use their animation budgets for good animation?

Because anime animators are basically slave labor.

I do in fact think that a voice actress likes having a lot of voice acting work. As for songs, that's something decided by people above them.

They are completely voluntarily in the industry.

Anime may look better but they get paid way less and don’t receive benefits like some American studios do.

Who cares? Idiots will watch anything

Why does Yea Forums use a single image to showcase animation? I don't see how that would make sense.

Americans have labor laws

>75k american production budget
you should probably keep in mind that most of that budget went to paying the actors and advertisements.

and also don't forget the nips enslave themselves when animating.

You know Japan specifically does animation because they can't compete with live-action Hollywood? Knowing how much an animated film makes at the box-office is just as important to their industry as it is to ours.

American animation is almost entirely outsourced to Korea, including Simpsons.

Nobody has ever posted any proof of slavery existing in the anime industry.

>and also don't forget the nips enslave themselves when animating.
apparently not when there's a arsonist in their studios

sneed

>You know Japan specifically does animation because they can't compete with live-action Hollywood?
No they don't. They make animation for the same reason anyone else makes anything, and there isn't some board of directors running the entire industry who decided a specific reason for the entire industry's existence.

>No they don't. They make animation for the same reason anyone else makes anything
Yes, mainly for economic reasons. They can't compete with live-action spectacle films, so they use a different medium and different art styles to provide a product that people still want.
Now tell me how their live-action industry is doing.

Anime has nothing to do with Hollywood, and most of it has been made for television. It has a lot to do with the manga industry though. Hollywood also didn't become known for the modern "blockbuster" until the 1970s.

Not everything revolves around America.

Funny how Japan is starting to shift to 3D mostly because they see it's so popular in america

Attached: lupin-movie-main-1562933972.jpg (1200x675, 298K)

fpbp

correct me him i'm wrong but isnt anime shows cheaper too ?

Attached: sneaky.jpg (933x619, 52K)

>Not everything revolves around America.
Nothing exists in a vacuum user. America is still important to how Japanese does things today.
>Anime has nothing to do with Hollywood
I just told you why and how it affected Japanese entertainment industry.

yes, because of slave labour

Japanese animation looks better as stills, but when you compare them in motion it doesn't come close to American animation.

>completely voluntarily
The choices are overwork or poverty. If you think animators choose to work on seasonal isekai anime for years, and not because they do it to pay rent, you're out of your mind.

They've been making 3D anime for many years and it's still a small minority. It may be popular in America but that's of little use in Japan since anime doesn't get a lot viewers in America.

>I just told you why and how it affected Japanese entertainment industry.
Based on what?

What slave labor? Yea Forums keeps saying this over and over again. Well where's your proof that slave labor is used? And where's your proof that the same isn't happening in Korea?

It's less fluid and there isn't as much animation, but that doesn't mean its worse.

This looks like shit. I hope this trend doesn't continue. They seem to like tradition, so hopefully they'll stick to non-3D animation

There are many jobs in Japan that people could be doing instead of anime. They're in the anime industry because they want to be there. They aren't enslaved and can quit any time. And many in fact do.

People did in fact want to work on anime like Konosuba and Slime.

Okay, I think it's clear you're just baiting now.

>It's less fluid and there isn't as much animation, but that doesn't mean its worse.
Yes it does. The founding principles of American animation are to make it look good; the founding principles of anime are to take shortcuts to make it cheap.

It's clear that you're only saying this because you have no arguments. I said nothing that would be even remotely suggestive of baiting.

Here's the bait
>It's less fluid and there isn't as much animation, but that doesn't mean its worse.
>What slave labor?
>Based on what? Hur, I don't understand how one thing can affect the other.
>anime doesn't get a lot viewers in America

Man it feels like a year since I've seen this pic.

American animation cuts corners too, it just cuts them in different places. There is a lot more to animation than just how many drawings were produced.

>It's less fluid and there isn't as much animation, but that doesn't mean its worse.
Where's the bait here?

>What slave labor?
What slave labor indeed? I have never seen anyone post any evidence of slave labor in the industry. If you are absolutely certain that the industry uses slave labor then you must have some proof.

>Based on what? Hur, I don't understand how one thing can affect the other.
You didn't give any compelling reasoning or evidence for your claim.

>anime doesn't get a lot viewers in America
Anime movies don't do well in the box office, with very few exceptions.

Fpbp

Yeah, I'm sure people love working at A1 Pictures.
animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-05-07/government-office-cites-overwork-in-suicide-of-a-1-pictures-staff-member

1. Overpayed western voice actors and unions
2. The cost of living is higher in the US, particularly in urban areas where animation studios exist. Western animators get paid way way WAY more than Jap animators and they still complain about being poor because of college loans and high rent

>American animation cuts corners too, it just cuts them in different places.
Example? I'm not aware of any part of animation that the Japanese put more care into.

Well to be fair when you trace your backgrounds from photos you tend to have a lower budget.

I never said there aren't any problems in the industry. You are just trying to score cheap shots because you have no actual arguments.

Almost all hand-drawn animation in the US is outsourced to foreign countries, mostly Korea.

Simpler designs, simpler shading, simpler camera work, simpler effects, simpler backgrounds. Often shorter runtimes. American animation puts almost all its eggs in the "fluid animation" basket.

The backgrounds in Simpsons are not very complicated, and even with a photo base there's a lot of work that goes into making those Shinkai backgrounds.

anime designs aren't simple, they're mostly overcomplicated. The only thing you're right about is Japan puts more work in layout designs, and even then they just trace places irl

>because you have no actual arguments.
Yet you haven't cited any evidence. Japanese people working themselves to death isn't just a meme. If you think they choose to fuck up their well being, you're nuts.
forbes.com/sites/adelsteinjake/2017/10/30/japan-is-literally-working-itself-to-death-how-can-it-stop/#1a1648952f14

People in America also overwork themselves to death.

Holy Shit, you know nothing about animation. Please stop talking.

Anime is literal slave labor. This is why animators and mangaka die at a young age, they work themselves to death because if they didn't they'd be out of a job. Anime has a hierarchy where 90% of the workforce makes minimum wage or worse.

Attached: 1554697391779.jpg (900x660, 213K)

I was right about all the things I listed, and using photos as a base for backgrounds is a relatively recent and non-universal practise that's limited to shows that take place in the real world.

>Yet you haven't cited any evidence.
Haven't cited any evidence for what?

>Japanese people working themselves to death isn't just a meme.
I never said it is, and why are we even talking about this now?

I know a lot more than you do. Please stop projecting.

AGAIN with the slave labor claim. Where's the proof? Why hasn't anyone posted anything in any of the threads where this has been brought up? You must have something.

>You didn't give any compelling reasoning or evidence for your claim.
Do you seriously think that Hollywood has no effect on Japanese animation when just Tezuka was inspired by Carl Barks and Toriyama was inspired by 101 dalmatians?

Hollywood having some sort of effect on Japanese animation does not mean that your original claim is true.

Reminds me why they didn't wanted to keep Maude va if they spends so much on Bart va?

>108956422
Please stop replying to this guy. It's clear he's just baiting all of you anons

>Almost all hand-drawn animation in the US is outsourced to foreign countries, mostly Korea.
Animators are bottom-tier workers according to the industry and are expendable compared to the the more important jobs (storyboards, designs, BGs, production) which are still are done domestically.

>AGAIN with the slave labor claim. Where's the proof? Why hasn't anyone posted anything in any of the threads where this has been brought up? You must have something.
Pay rates for mangaka and animators have been common knowledge for decades. Even anons on Yea Forums know this shit. Do you know how many threads they have on mangaka that die at young ages? Toyotaro works 20 hour days. Either you are horribly ignorant on this or you do know and are just pretending it's not real.

it's bait

There was no bait, you just can't argue against me.

What does any of this have to do with slavery?

>Simpler designs
doesn't affect the animation
>simpler shading
most anime has simple shading too
>simpler camera work
Anime uses more cheap camera tricks than western animation. They want to hide as much movement as possible.
>simpler effects
Anime is more likely to use cg effects than western animation.
>Often shorter runtimes
The runtimes for a half-hour slot show are the same anime intros and outros are just way longer.

Because greed and advertising. Y'know ((((them))))

>Still frames is animation

>still frames not being part of animation

"Japanese animation isn't a shitty job, guys" user probably thinks the Kyoani fire is "acceptable losses" and insists they should continue working on anime despite the deaths.

It's popular in Japan too. Ralph Breaks the Internet was #1 in Japan.

Kyoani fire is just a normal occurrence in Japan. No big deal.

Attached: 1541689851243.gif (540x304, 1.18M)

Stop acting like a retard and understand hyperbole. Japanese animators aren't exactly making living wages at more than 50 hours a week.

This is my favorite animation. Look at those still frames.

Attached: iu-9.jpg (625x790, 105K)

Didn't Black Clover literally beg on Twitter to get more animators for a show that's done by a massive company?

>doesn't affect the animation
The simpler the design, the faster and easier it is to animate.

>most anime has simple shading too
By what standard? Real life? Anime has by far more complicated shading than American animation.

>Anime uses more cheap camera tricks than western animation. They want to hide as much movement as possible.
Anime uses all kinds of simple and complex camera techniques that American animation does not.

>Anime is more likely to use cg effects than western animation.
Adding digital effects takes more work, not less.

>The runtimes for a half-hour slot show are the same anime intros and outros are just way longer.
The runtimes for movies are often longer, and shows like SU and AT have half length episodes.

The Kyoani fire was a practically random occurence caused by some nutjob getting the idea that some novel plagiarized him. Why are you trying to misrepresent it as being some problem inherent to the industry?

You people specifically keep saying slave labor, over and over again, and you even said you are LITERALLY talking about slave labor. So where's the proof? Do you have any or not?

Attached: 0oxPwmi-RRTa_y6.webm (1276x720, 2.92M)

>he doesn't know that moving picture drawings should be judged on how they don't move

>slave labor doesn't exist guys, it's completely voluntary

Attached: 1542125522013.jpg (736x556, 48K)

Eveythings bait

Mostly because Americants won't see animated movies unless it stars some celeb or something, for Simpsons specifically the VAs has lobbied hard to get big pay since they're not replacable.

I should note that the "good" animation you show is mostly just Japan covering up their medicore animation with pretty colors and lights, they literally treat you like a fucking baby, same with TV animes.

Ok, show me the proof that the anime industry uses slave labor.

context? I don't watch the Simpsons

Why doesn't Japan care about voice actors?

The Simpsons VA’s make a huge amount of money. Plus, I’m sure they get residuals. In anime, everyone is paid shit

They spend it on fire extinguishers.

They do care, just that no one involved in the actual production of anime is paid well.

>with pretty colors and lights
I.e. background art, shot composition, cinematography and effects, which live action films also use. If anything here is treating the audience like babies, it's American animation by being apparently entirely based on just having something--anything--moving around on the screen in some way. Like shaking something in front of a baby.

If 5CM has mediocre animation it's because it was an early project by an up and coming independent director.

They care about them a lot. Voice actors have live events and radio shows and there are magazines dedicated to voice acting.

Can someone tell me what happened with Kyoani? I didn't hear anything about this before this thread

>Let me show which one has better animation with these still images
If you're going to strawman, at least be less retarded about it

Attached: retard.jpg (600x449, 48K)

Shit son you're retarded

Attached: you.gif (480x480, 3.71M)

...

>The simpler the design, the faster and easier it is to animate.
Then please explain how something like Avatar can still have the same quality as other western animation while using anime-esque designs.
>Anime has by far more complicated shading than American animation.
Gonna need an example.
>Anime uses all kinds of simple and complex camera techniques that American animation does not.
Again, gonna need an example. The only camera techniques I've seen in anime is to hide stuff.
>Adding digital effects takes more work, not less.
We're not talking about what takes more work, we're talking about what looks better.
>The runtimes for movies are often longer, and shows like SU and AT have half length episodes.
So are we comparing movies or TV shows? Because movies have higher budgets.

Crazy guy lit their studio on fire. At least 34 people died. One of them includes the guy who directed Dragon Maid.

You're the one who said still frames were part animation.

A lunatic burned down their main studio and killed 34 people and injured many others. At least one person is reported to have had their legs amputated.

Don't be angry at me, that you didnt know how basic animation worked.

>Based on the scenarios below, the cost of living for a single working person in Tokyo is between ¥140,000 (1,268USD) and ¥194,000 (1,757USD) a month, including rent, food, discretionary spending, transportation, and taxes and insurance. However, this is only meant as a general guideline, and your expenses may be quite different.
resources.realestate.co.jp/living/cost-living-single-person-tokyo/
According to , an animator's monthly income would work out to under ¥91,000 (less than 800USD).

The Power of Autism.

>Again, gonna need an example. The only camera techniques I've seen in anime is to hide stuff.
He thinks panning the camera to the left and right are advanced camera techniques

>If anything here is treating the audience like babies, it's American animation by being apparently entirely based on just having something--anything--moving around on the screen in some way. Like shaking something in front of a baby.
Are you seriously implying that I'm in the wrong right now for telling OP probably you that you need to post ANIMATION, if you're going to make an argument about ANIMATION?

Attached: super-retard.jpg (767x431, 41K)

Yes, now I know something doesn't have to move to be counted as good animation.

Keep being retarded it suits you

?

>Then please explain how something like Avatar can still have the same quality as other western animation while using anime-esque designs.
Avatar had a lot of money behind it and was contracted to an elite Korean studio that normally works with Japanese studios. And while the designs are more complex than what is normal in America, they are still not as complex as what's often seen in anime.

In any case it's just a simple fact that the more complex your design is the more time you have to spend on drawing it.

>Gonna need an example.
You've obviously never even watched anime, so why are you trying to argue about this?

>We're not talking about what takes more work, we're talking about what looks better.
Digital effects are used to make things look better, and we are also talking about how much work things take. The more work is spent on every frame of animation, the less frames of animation there are going to be.

>So are we comparing movies or TV shows? Because movies have higher budgets.
The same principle applies to movies.

Again, what does this have to do with slavery?

The power of pulling the autism card when you have no arguments.

Having a camera move freely in 3D space or rotate around a character is an advanced technique. A moving first person shot is an advanced technique.

I'm not OP and never said or implied that I am. And what I'm "implying" is exactly what I just said:
>If anything here is treating the audience like babies, it's American animation by being apparently entirely based on just having something--anything--moving around on the screen in some way. Like shaking something in front of a baby.
It should be self-explanatory.

Here is a classic example of a shit animator in the west that treat's their audience like babies and just needs something --anything-- to move on the screen. I'm absolutely positive that this person does not give a shit about animation and that the average japanese citizen cares more.

Attached: 1531364054594.webm (853x480, 2.81M)

He thinks focusing on the backs of characters are advanced camera techniques.

>108956957
>Having a camera move freely in 3D space or rotate around a character is an advanced technique. A moving first person shot is an advanced technique.
show me an example

>Overdetailed facial features
>On a simplistic character
Why nips always gets character design wrong, like holy shit.

this is a ye olden comparison to a slideshow

He thinks focusing on the backs of characters while the other character uses a stock reaction pose is an advanced camera technique

>Again, what does this have to do with slavery?
It may not be slavery but it's clearly exploitation. You'd have to be absolutely daft to ignore that.

Attached: 8ecfa1ec574811eeefac3bd3f50d96f7da266d1c6870c9a32780ffecabf35480.jpg (625x480, 78K)

When people defend American animation, they keep consistently appealing to the simple fact that there is a lot of motion. It really doesn't seem to matter what that motion is. As long as there are lots of frames of animation, it's all good.

See sakugabooru.com/post/show/16157
sakugabooru.com/post/show/29221
sakugabooru.com/post/show/16323
sakugabooru.com/post/show/23493
sakugabooru.com/post/show/10485
sakugabooru.com/post/show/45767

They are the best in the world at character design.

If you're really going to try and dance around the entire point of my post, let me turn the point of my post into a question. Let's say I've never watched either film the OP posted. How do the images he provided in his post make an argument that the right image has superior animation to the left?
At least this user can post an actual example, and I thank you for that.

And I'm absolutely positive that animator has more animation skill than anybody in Japan.

>They are the best in the world at character design.

Attached: 1532537290508.jpg (200x200, 65K)

Actually read my posts and stop being dishonest.

Do you have proof of slavery or not?

What am I dancing around? We were talking about this:
>I should note that the "good" animation you show is mostly just Japan covering up their medicore animation with pretty colors and lights, they literally treat you like a fucking baby, same with TV animes.

That isn't even hand-drawn.

Just because it moves around a lot doesn't mean it's good animation skill.

Every post above and below this post was made by a homosexual. Also, anime is shit.

Yes, that is indeed precisely what I said. What is your point?

Then everything is shit.

Here is another shit animator that doesn't know anything about animation and is a shit artist

Attached: 1531542665573.webm (1280x720, 2.76M)

>they are still not as complex as what's often seen in anime
Name 10 shows from this season that look more complex than Avatar.
>You've obviously never even watched anime, so why are you trying to argue about this?
Okay, so 0 then.
>Digital effects are used to make things look better
The intention doesn't matter; what matters is the outcome.

How many of these are just improperly rotoscoped frames?

While some anime has good animation, it has very little to do with budget. The average salary of 2D animator is shit both in US and Japan. Just become a 3DCG animator if you dream of this career.

>When people defend American animation, they keep consistently appealing to the simple fact that there is a lot of motion. It really doesn't seem to matter what that motion is. As long as there are lots of frames of animation, it's all good.
Animation IS motion, you fucking retard. If there's nothing moving besides the character's mouths, then it's not good animation.

>What am I dancing around? We were talking about this:
No we weren't. I was talking about how OPs post doesn't work, because you can't use still images to compare animation. Maybe you're assuming that I'm associated with some other user, but that was the very first post I ever made in this thread, and nothing that has been communicated between us addresses the fact that OPs being retarded right now.

The thing about this movie is that it has just two or maybe three scenes that are ever posted, and the only reason they're posted is because they fluid animation. But there's fluid animation in many movies, so what's the big deal?

>Name 10 shows from this season that look more complex than Avatar.
Why should I bother? It's very obvious you've never seen anime in your life. You are denying extremely blatant, widespread differences between anime and American animation. I could make any claim in favor of anime and you'd just automatically deny it even if you have no idea what is being talked about.

>Okay, so 0 then.
Read what I just wrote:
>You've obviously never even watched anime, so why are you trying to argue about this?

>The intention doesn't matter; what matters is the outcome.
Not that you'd know anything about the outcome.

Anime rarely uses rotoscoping, and it's almost always very obvious when it does.

Then we should be emulating anime studios in regards to that.

>DURR STILL FRAMES ARE PART OF ANIMATION
>DURR STILL FRAMES AREN'T ANIMATION

Animation is a lot more than just motion. You are now arguing that a movie could just literally consist of someone shaking keys and it would be a great movie, because hey there's motion.

You cannot jump into someone else's exchange and then declare that the topic is now something completely different.

>Why does a movie based off a show have a similar style to the show
Are you unironically retarded?

>108957319
>But there's fluid animation in many movies,
not in Nipponland

>Where's the proof?
Here one piece by actual Japanese animator:
nextshark.com/anime-artist-foreigners-low-pay/

It's getting more and more common that Japanese animators dare talk in public about the truth behing the industry.

>Do you have proof of slavery or not?
Do you understand the concept of hyperbole?
>That isn't even hand-drawn.
It's still animated. And completely straight-ahead, which is more than you can say about most animator's skills.
Following proper principles in the context of the scene is what makes good animation skill. Which is what you would see if you actually watched it.

>Why should I bother? It's very obvious you've never seen anime in your life.
Okay, so 0 again.

So you're entire argument is that anime looks better than western animation because you can't name an anime that looks better than western animation? It looks like I've won.

>Are you unironically retarded?
He thinks Richard Williams and Travis Knight are bad animators. That should give you a clue.

>Animation is a lot more than just motion. You are now arguing that a movie could just literally consist of someone shaking keys and it would be a great movie, because hey there's motion.
You obviously haven't been paying attention to the thread. We're talking about animation quality, not overall quality.

>You cannot jump into someone else's exchange and then declare that the topic is now something completely different.
Literally the only person I posted to was OP, and then YOU created a reply that has nothing to do with what I posted, with the false notion that I'd play by your rules for a completely different argument. You're literally ignoring what I posted, and complaining that I'm not ignoring it with you.

Attached: 1498507494914.png (639x480, 428K)

soranews24.com/2016/12/15/more-than-half-of-young-anime-workers-live-with-their-parents-or-receive-money-from-them【survey】/

Is there a better animated CGI show anywhere?

Attached: 1522965852900.webm (1280x544, 2.31M)

I wasn't talking about anime.

Do you or do you not have evidence that the anime industry enslaves people and forces them to work? Stop trying to change the subject and answer the question.

>Do you understand the concept of hyperbole?
This is damage control. There was no hyperbole. You are alleging that the industry enslaves people and forces them to work.

>It's still animated.
Stop motion and hand-drawn animation are two completely different things.

>Okay, so 0 again.
Do you not know how to read:
>Why should I bother? It's very obvious you've never seen anime in your life. You are denying extremely blatant, widespread differences between anime and American animation. I could make any claim in favor of anime and you'd just automatically deny it even if you have no idea what is being talked about.

>It looks like I've won.
You've never even watched anime.

And animation quality according to you is achieved by just having some sort of motion playing on the screen at all times.

>doesn't have to move to be counted as good animation.
We are reaching dangerous levels of autism here, like, holy shit.

Attached: 063e54cd05da0bfb751235348fbc6d1c20e70569c684ee0e3709dca132605fa5.jpg (400x400, 36K)

>Which is what you would see if you actually watched it.
It's not as good as Japanese animation, so why bother something that uses forced animation?

Nearly all of animation gets outsourced to korea and china. The guys there have so much skill that they can do what ever you want. The only problem is giving them proper keyframes and storyboards. They can do only so much if you give them piss quality source to work with.

You said:
>I should note that the "good" animation you show is mostly just Japan covering up their medicore animation with pretty colors and lights, they literally treat you like a fucking baby, same with TV animes.

To which I responded with:
>I.e. background art, shot composition, cinematography and effects, which live action films also use. If anything here is treating the audience like babies, it's American animation by being apparently entirely based on just having something--anything--moving around on the screen in some way. Like shaking something in front of a baby.
What exactly are you not understanding here?

>Do you or do you not have evidence that the anime industry enslaves people and forces them to work?
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you are in the spectrum and do not understand allegories.

Of course he's retarded. he thinks stuff like this is good animation.
youtube.com/watch?v=HCWN6kmzo8Y

Although this is a bad faith post(you can’t judge animation from a still frame), I think that 3D animation is not mentioned enough in these types of threads. From a technical standpoint, studios such as Pixar, Sony Pictures Animation and especially Dreamworks have all produced incredible works both in rendering and even in cartooning. The Lupin III image posted earlier in the thread is both well rendered and appealing. Hell, even shows like SlugTerra in the west, made for cheap, have dynamic expressions and character animations alongside awesome action.

I personally believe it’s less of an issue of East vs West and more of an issue of concentration of effort.

Hey, autismo. How's going?

>Stop motion and hand-drawn animation are two completely different things.
Can you imagine being this retarded?

>You've never even watched anime.
I know this is hard for you to believe because it goes against your worldview, but people can watch anime and not think the animation looks good.

BUT WE HAVE TO PICK A SIDE AND CAN'T ENJOY BOTH REEEEE

>he thinks this is good

Attached: 1549486611811.webm (640x640, 1.84M)

>And animation quality according to you is achieved by just having some sort of motion playing on the screen at all times.
Again, something moving onscreen IS animation. Focussing on a character standing completely still for 30 seconds while someone else talks offscreen isn't animation.

There was no allegory. There was no hyperbole. You keep claiming that the industry uses slave labor. You specifically keep constantly talking about slavery, and someone said they LITERALLY use slaves.

Do you have evidence or not? Either present the evidence or stop talking about this.

You have no arguments against anything I said.

Ok, explain what makes hand-drawn animation and stop motion animation the same thing.

It's a very obvious and constantly repeating feature of anime that it has very detailed characters and lighting, much more detailed than American animation. If someone denies this, it means they haven't watched anime. If I argued that anime is better because more of it takes place in school, he'd immediately claim that no that isn't true.

>I have no actual answer to how common Jap animation studios have shit benefits, pay, and working conditions so I'll just keep insisting you meant actual slavery.

Stay retarded. East vs West threads suck, why can't we just post good animation without retards shitting everything up?

Autismo thinks someone who hasn't obsessively watched hundreds of anime hasn't watched anime at all.

I'd bang that

You voluntarily watch something, you can't just think something is bad when you buy and consume a product

>There was no allegory. There was no hyperbole. You keep claiming that the industry uses slave labor.
What part of "basically slave labor" you do not understand? Just admit you were wrong and now you're embarrassed to admit it, bro. This is an anoymous imageboard.

>Ok, explain what makes hand-drawn animation and stop motion animation the same thing.
It uses the same principles of animation

I was being sarcastic.

It's the bare minimum required to achieve animation. It's equivalent to the bare live action equivalent of having a camera and recording footage of something. This is not something to be proud of.

>Focussing on a character standing completely still for 30 seconds while someone else talks offscreen isn't animation.
That's not how anime works, and there is more to a work of animation than just motion.

We aren't talking about benefits, pay or work conditions. We are talking about the repeated claim that the industry uses slave labor.

It's very obvious that you do not have any proof showing that slave labor is used, so why are you still trying to talk about this?

See

>It's not as good as Japanese animation, so why bother something that uses forced animation?
Because that's how humans move. They twitch and twist and never completely stay still. That's what the audience expects to see, That's what the financiers expect for their millions of dollars invested. You may not like it but that's the expectation; nobody wants limited animation in a big-budget product.

Just because a character is more detailed, it doesn't mean they can't be animated well.Japan has very poor character animation.

Attached: james baxter giselle.webm (1080x720, 2.5M)

>it has very detailed characters and lighting, much more detailed than American animation
Yes, and there are so many anime with detailed characters and lighting that you can't even name one. I win.

>why can't we just post good animation without retards shitting everything up?
There's a timeline where Japan was splited in a half after WWI between USA and Soviet Union or something. In that timeline we don't hve EvsW threads, we have America vs France instead.

Just imagine, user, I could have been awsome.

I don't.

this but western

>there is more to a work of animation than just motion.

Attached: 1534462773967.jpg (600x603, 19K)

Do you have proof that slave labor is used? Yes or no?

Even hand-drawn American and Japanese animation don't use the same principles.

Of course they can be animated well, but it takes more time and time is always limited.

>Japan has very poor character animation.
No it does not.

We already went over this, and no you do not win. You are just automatically denying any claim that's in favor of anime, without actually knowing anything about the topic.

You're the idiot who keeps bringing up slave labor. Everyone else in the thread has already said you're blowing up a hyperbole that is meant to allude to terrible benefits and working conditions.

>DUURRRRRR i deliberately take things out of context and expect my opinions to be catered to DURRRRR

Oh, I was baiting? Then you are saying that the following are NOT components of an animated work: character design, shot composition, cinematography, background art, effects, sound design, music, voice acting, writing. Can you explain why these elements in your opinion are not part of animated works?

You are a goddamn liar. I never brought up slave labor. You are the ones who repeatedly brought it up. This was the first mention of it in the thread:

>Even hand-drawn American and Japanese animation don't use the same principles.
>don't use the same principles
woah, what principles do they magically use?

Sorry about that, pardon for the inconvenience. Take a Happy Hilda as evidence of how sorry I am

Attached: 41720615_302456800343905_6873805434189078549_n.jpg (480x480, 50K)

>It's the bare minimum required to achieve animation
Okay, so anime uses the bare minimum and western animation doesn't. Therefore, western animation is of better quality than anime.

>That's not how anime works
Please leave. You've obviously never watched any anime.

>there is more to a work of animation than just motion
No, there isn't. If you draw something and it doesn't move, then that's not animation.

That was not me. This was my post, You replied to this post referring me to The only thing in this post that has anything to do with what I posted was what I greentexted in And that had to have been what you wanted me to read, because you never implied otherwise. At this point, I'm starting to just assume that either you replied to the wrong person, or you're assuming I'm another user that had replied to you.

Basically isn't Literally nor Actually you tard. Saying you're basically a retard doesn't mean you're actually missing chromosomes. It's comparative. It's obviously nothing like actual slave labor but that still doesn't discount obsessive crunch and shit pay

This is one of those threads that really needs some named fags

Why do you think they look so different?

>Okay, so anime uses the bare minimum and western animation doesn't.
Where did I say anything like this?

>Please leave. You've obviously never watched any anime.
I have, unlike you. Maybe you can find some instances where the camera is focused for 30 seconds on a character standing still, but that isn't how things normally work.

>No, there isn't.
See >This was my post,
To which I never responded to.

>You
That's not me.

You keep talking about slavery over, over, over, over and over again and one of you said they LITERALLY use slaves.

Either produce evidence of slavery or stop posting.

I already said it's not literal fucking slavery. ENGLISH YOU IDIOT CAN YOU NOT READ?

>To which I never responded to.
Well shit, in that case this is all a big misunderstanding.I assumed you were the user who told me to look at your post, and I guess you assumed I was the user you were talking to earlier as a result. Glad to know you weren't just being an asshole.

Attached: what-can-i-do-22497290.jpg (1300x957, 101K)

they use it on voice actors, for some reason

>kino American movie vs shit Jap movie
Try harder weeb

If no one's gonna say it, I will.
THERE IS NO SLAVE LABOUR.
But you don't have to be a communist to see that Japanese animators are exploited to hell to work in a career that pays a little more than a clerk at 7-Eleven.

>Named fags
Who? Autismo? Famicon? The last one fucking died, tho.

Attached: Wut.png (260x312, 88K)

So you admit no slavery exists in the industry despite your previous claims to the contrary?

Remind me again how many people still talk about the Simpsons movie, because it's definitely not as many as people who still talk about 5 Centimeters.

vidya game company work the same way
>Interesting career that has a line of people craving to get in that has no problem breaking them in then spitting them out once they become disillusioned or die

Simpsons had way more marketing tho, even my grand mother knew about the movie. 5 centimeters, on the other hand... wait, is that the movie of the ppt in OP's pic? Wew, maybe I'll check it out, but just because the memes, the posters looks bad.

Attached: 87b77de7984ecfa0861dcc7e266332b3061ba0fb0dcab25fbf21c15a2fa07510.png (683x705, 380K)

Not even the same fucking user but sure, yeah.

Animation Jobs in Japan are fucking great. Can't wait to work an entire whole day to go to my parent's house and get a paycheck comparable to a guy who works at a 7-11.

The second paragraph is sarcasm before you miss that. And no yes I do know 7-11s in Asia look much more appealing than Western ones because I fucking live in Asia.

The Simpsons movie is now so rarely mentioned that it's easy to forget it ever existed. A lot of things with big marketing pushes behind them are soon forgotten. 5 Centimeters is brought up all the time.

I have not claimed anywhere that the industry has great pay and hours, I have only been insisting that there is no evidence of any slave labor.

As hard as the conditions are in the industry, people still keep making anime because they are motivated by more than just a pay check. It would seem that their American counterparts just want they pay check.

because western studios have to build things called fire exits and other safety stuff for their studios

The Kyoani studio passed fire safety checks, and according to one report the studio also held fire drills.

>so rarely mentioned
Because it's the movie of a franchise that turned into absolute shit with the years.

>5 Centimeters is brought up all the time.
Really? I only see that movie mentioned in threads like this one for the unnvalid comparison with Simpsons movie.

Attached: 1549711470254.png (407x394, 266K)

>The Kyoani studio passed fire safety checks
thats a shitty fire safety check if you ask me user

I'm pretty sure the psycho arsonist blocked off all the exits, which is why is was so devastating

>Why do you think they look so different?
They don't. They move the same

Passion is nice but burn-out and overwork is an actual thing which leads to shittier output. And apparently asking for actual serviceable working conditions is too much.

And fuck no on motivated workers, the industry thrives on quickly replacing disillusioned/dead workers with the next batch of hopefuls englamoured to be working in the anime industry. The fact you don't admit how the industry itself exploits this notion is dumb.

Minions made 3 times more money than Spiderverse

I don't mean it's mentioned on Yea Forums, I mean it's mentioned on places like Yea Forums, r/movies and anime communities.

The arsonist poured so much gasoline that the first floor exploded, the exits were immediately on fire, and the smoke spread so quickly that people were dead before they could even get to the rooftop door.

They absolutely do not. They have very distinctly different ways of moving. That's one of the reasons why Japanese work can be spotted in outsourced American shows in the 80s and 90s.

>They absolutely do not. They have very distinctly different ways of moving. That's one of the reasons why Japanese work can be spotted in outsourced American shows in the 80s and 90s.
Name the principles they use, or Name one animator that mentions different principles of animation.

The industry also needs experienced staff to produce high quality work, and it does have experienced staff. It just doesn't have enough of it because of the high turnover rate. Rather than the industry seeking to use disposable workers, it's more likely that the conditions are just bad and this causes a lot of people to drop out. There's also so much anime produced that the bottom of the barrel has to be sometimes scraped to get enough people to finish things.

Nobody has a complete picture of the industry and all the answers to exactly what's wrong and how it should be fixed.

>The arsonist poured so much gasoline that the first floor exploded, the exits were immediately on fire, and the smoke spread so quickly that people were dead before they could even get to the rooftop door.
which is still useless since there was no fire escape which was stupid considering almost everything inside consisted of wood and paper

Do you think seriously think this moves the same way a Disney movie does:
sakugabooru.com/post/show/10755

The again, it's not a good comparison, since there's really nothing worthy neither out of the movie nor the franchise. 5 centimeters, on the other hand, what does it have that makes it worthy? I just started watching it, 5 minutes in and I'm fucking bored, It truly looks like a ppt, it's barely animated, and the backgrounds are boring, nothing that I have seen in other nip toons and other animated movies as a whole and better.

Also:
>If it's mentioned a lot then it's good
That's not a good logic, m8.

Attached: 1540745018421.png (532x480, 263K)

The building was obviously expected to suffer ordinary fires, not acts of arson where everyone suddenly dies. And why in the fuck are you even arguing about this? What does this have to do with the topic?

>5 centimeters, on the other hand, what does it have that makes it worthy?
A lot of people think it's a great movie and it's mentioned often.

>5 minutes in and I'm fucking bored
Ok, go watch some ADHD cartoon then.

>That's not a good logic, m8.
But your logic of "I watched five minutes and I'm bored" is great, somehow.

Not him but, there are 12 principles mentioned by Ollie Johnston and Frank Thomas, Disney animatiors. Also the nips have something extra, I don't really remember the name but it's basically "let's save animation effort for the important scenes".

Cartoons use lots of motion because they want to imitate cinema. Anime adapt cinema thechniques to the medium. Cartoons are being replaced with CGI because it's fulfill the western philosophy of animation, it's as easy as that

even if it was an ordinary fire, the fact that it was a fucking deathtrap without any exits would still have killed a couple of people granted not as many as the arson fire

Pretty much everything about the Japanese animation philosophy and process differs from Disney.

What does this have to do with the topic?

This seems to be a remarkably stupid idea. "It looks like my animes, therefore there are different principles at work"

It's not an idea let alone a stupid one, it's just the reality of things.

Nope

This. Say what you want, at least American animators are treated like human beings.

Yeah, the few American animators that haven't had their jobs outsourced to South Korea yet. A country known for its relaxed work culture.

I think he's just that retarded to think Anime moves differently just because it's japanese

The 12 Principles are still at work. I can clearly see the stretch and squash here. Are you just ignorant of this?

More frames = better animation so we have to make every movement 2 frames like Family Guy

It's a fact that they move differently, and I never said anything like "anime moves differently just because it's Japanese."

Because I am not ignorant, I can clearly see that it looks nothing like American animation.

I've noticed that there is always a LOT of resistance to any notion of anime being different from American animation, unless of course the difference is explicitly negative.

>More frames = better animation
Not true. Even the smoothest animation in the world can still look like shit.

>Because I am not ignorant, I can clearly see that it looks nothing like American animation.
It still moves just the same. I can't believe a thread died for this

You are either lying because you don't want anime to be different, or you really have no clue at all about animation.

I'm not saying it's bad, tho, just pointing I'm bored, and I don't have really expectation for the rest either.

>A lot of people think is great then it's good
Not a good logic. I could go right now to tumblr and find a lot of people who likes SU, does that makes SU good? Of course not.

Sakuge animation still uses the same principles of animation that everything else uses.

Because America is unironically creatively bunkrupt. They can't do anything new. Only blockbusters, liveaction or 3d remake stuff, and preexisting popular series like that sitcom can survive and make money.

MODS MODS MODS

Then what is good logic? Your opinion? The fact is that the Simpsons movie has been practically forgotten about while various communities still keep bringing up 5 Centimeters.

See And it's not "sakuga animation." Animation is just called sakuga when it's good or interesting.

>IT'S MENTIONED A LOT THEN IT'S GOOD
No, autismo, no.
Take a little kiss.

Attached: zorra mexicana.png (1093x936, 201K)

Just because you don't like Disney, it doesn't mean that Japanese animation suddenly uses different principles of animation that you can't even name.

Because making cartoons and anime is the art of marketing. the simpsons as much as you hate it is a show that still delivers money to the network after 30 years so there's a rather generous budget used to it thanks to the help of unions. in the case of anime the budget used is proportional to it's country, you may think 270k is low because you're looking at american money, 25 million yen is nothing to scoff at and still anime mastered the art of cutting edges to make end meets, that's why the main characteristics of anime are:
Long ass internal monologues, focused camera points with no movement, focused points that show the character speaking, photography manipulation or tracing for the use of backgrounds, diminished use of frames for the conveyance of movement, among several others which not even cover the narrative, the narrative is a different beast from animation itself.
Americans do waste money in good animation, they just don't cut corner as much as anime does since the narrative style is different and as such they can't use the same tricks anime uses making your question moot.

>autismo
So you admit that I'm right and you're wrong.

Just because you are scared or offended or otherwise bothered by the idea that anime is different from Disney doesn't mean that it isn't different. They ARE different, whether you like it or not. You have no authority on the matter.

Wrong doesn't exist.

>Not true. Even the smoothest animation in the world can still look like shit.
I didn't say I agree with that mindset, timing > frames

>Long ass internal monologues
Most likely come from the manga.

>they just don't cut corner as much as anime does
They do, but they cut different corners and don't seem to have any self-awareness that they're doing it.

the reason why its so costly in the west is because they invest the money in other things like studio safety

>Why don't Americans use their animation budgets for good animation?
Why did you attempt to compare animation methods by using a pair of still screenshots?

The Kyoani fire was an essentially random occurence that neither the studio nor the building codes were prepared to handle. And it was a single incident. You are grasping at straws and have no arguments.

oh they absolutely are, but the media evolved to accept it as the norm so even orginals have them and is accepted as a technique to save on frames.

and i'm certain americans also cut corners, but as you said they lack the self awareness of it.

Thinking about recent original action anime, I don't remember there being battle shounen-type stuff going on.

Why do Amermutts always pretend to still make 2D animations despite not having their own 2d animators or studios. No actual technique and style can develop in such a wasteland.

>Digging up this 500 year old bait image
Fuck off

>Amermutts
>Doesn't know of independent studios
Opinion discarded

>Animation fundamentals exist in all animation
>Drawing fundamentals exist in all drawings
These two statements aren't any different. Perspective is still used in Japan drawing, just like how Squash and Stretch is used in animation. You are just ignorant in this matter and refuse to believe that something can be applied differently while still being based on the same basic principles.

We are very obviously not talking about perspective or squash and stretch, so don't pretend like we are.

Because American cartoons are actually animated unlike anime where characters stand still with only lips moving for minutes on end. When was the last time there was an anime where characters blink regularly? I prefer my animation to be animated instead of still images with moving mouths.

That's exactly what i'm talking about.

Trigger Studios are huge westaboos.

Attached: 1531878413892.gif (280x207, 239K)

Because Americans cannot in animation.

Stop being dishonest.

>Because American cartoons are actually animated unlike anime where characters stand still with only lips moving for minutes on end.
Myth.

Marketing is expensive.

squash and stretch is one of the main principles of animation. In fact, it's the very first one. You were just wrong and don't want to admit it.

Speaking of, how was this?

Attached: 71D64B78-8E2A-4254-9261-43409FA4E3D1.jpg (1936x2731, 853K)

what american animation does this shit still? The future is bob's burgers boy.

Again, stop being dishonest. We were not talking about perspective or squash and stretch.

Americans can not in the animation. All their TV shows look like crap. The whole budget goes to intermediate frames, because stupid roosters think that the quality of animation depends on the number of frames. At the same time they can neither in the direction, nor in the soundtrack, nor in the normal design. All their animations are Disney and Pixar, and everything is built only on a large budget.

Jews.

This season, I've actually watched more cartoons than I did anime.
However, I did read more manga than I read comics.

kek

Why have they not done something as masterpiece as Gurren Laggan?

They can't.

Attached: 6fa61082e7_gurren-lagann-gurren-lagann.jpg (1920x1080, 179K)

Why are so many of you here unable to argue without resorting to constant dishonesty?

Why would you consider it a masterpiece? Why not something like Mao Mao instead?

Why Americans do not have sakuga? Because they can not in sakuga.

It's the same as any high school animu film, you're not missing anything

And why is Mao Mao better than Gurren Lagann?

High school is a setting, and this doesn't even take place in school.

youtube.com/watch?v=i-Xn9zWJTvk

Maybe he wanted a pub setting.

eh, I wasn't crazy about the ending of this

Kek

Meh. Why you can't in epic? Why all is so generic?

Fucking tv show. TV. SHOW.

Attached: [PAS] Carole & Tuesday - 11.mkv_snapshot_08.52_[2019.07.26_22.31.08].jpg (1280x720, 408K)

You are just blatantly admitting now that yes, you were being dishonest and could not make real arguments.

Yeah, this is tv show.

Attached: 1.jpg (1920x1080, 344K)

It's hilarious and has great character interaction despite, or thanks to having no waifus.

I think that user was talking about some of the ones that Crunchyroll staff talks here: youtu.be/noD2nmoNCO8

And this is too.

Attached: 2.jpg (1280x720, 113K)

>or thanks to having no waifus.
Prefer men?

The 2D animation market is iterally dominated by Japan. Anime is becoming be a sort of brand or a standard in the market. How can Americans beat them. Nobody gives a fuck about a new American cartoon series anymore.

This is also tv.

Attached: [HorribleSubs] Vinland Saga - 03 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_17.18_[2019.07.26_22.38.19].jpg (1920x1080, 1.22M)

what?

The actual animation is only a portion of the total budget. There's marketing, paying the actors, the cost of maintaining a studio, etc. There's also the fact that american animation studios actually pay their animators fairly.

Also this post is clearly trying to imply that the Simpsons Movie had bad animation which like... no it didn't? It's not bad animation just because you don't like it.

But if we're talking actual animation, Japanese animators are masters of taking shortcuts. Watch any anime and count the number of scenes where nothing is moving but their mouths or characters are standing completely still while the camera slowly pans over them. Japanese animation also uses fewer drawings, and fewer drawings = less work. It saves money.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with this approach, for the record. Timing and spacing are more important than framerate at the end of the day. There's some incredible looking anime that manage to do a lot with very little.

these are still images

>There's also the fact that american animation studios actually pay their animators fairly.
Why does this keep being repeated over and over again when the reality is that almost all animation is outsourced to foreign countries? American TV animation has been mostly foreign-produced since the 80s.

>fewer drawings = less work. It saves money.
Those drawings take huge amounts of time to make compared to American ones.

>these are still images
youtube.com/watch?v=m-9JWmzWxKk
youtube.com/watch?v=FpRk3m3Y-Zg

Dang, that certainly is a nice static, digital painting of a cliff.

They have lots of videos on the principles of animation. I think that user was talking about some of that principles.

It's almost like background art is also a part of making an animated TV show.

>Those drawings take huge amounts of time to make compared to American ones.
Yes, more details take more time. One animator in an interview complained how everything became detailed now.

Animation styles is not the same thing.

Most American TV animation is outsourced to Korea, who treat their animators much better than Japan does...

Even still, there are American studios that do in-house work like titmouse and powerhouse.

Because we don't run animation sweat shops.

No husbandos is also fine.

Yeah, I picked the first video that I find but they talk about other principles in other videos but I can't link them because of my mobile data cap.

I have never heard a single word about how they are treated or how they are paid. Nothing. I even tried looking up what they're paid, and found nothing. What I have heard more generally is that Korea's general work culture is even worse than Japan's.

This post again.

They use the same principles in all animation. You can apply them differently, but they still use them all the same.

>photoshop filters with hanana barbera tier animation
Ah, yes. Superior Nip animation at work.

Again, anime and American animation have completely different philosophies and principles.

>photoshop filters
What is supposed to be wrong with digitally enhacing images?

>hanana barbera tier animation
youtube.com/watch?v=k98pd21iCU8

They don't use different principles of animation. Squash and Stretch is still used in the west. It's very blatant it's the exact same. Squash and Stretch is how the characters mouths move

We are not talking about squash and stretch and you already admitted that you were being dishonest. Why are you bringing this up again?

>still used in the east

I've read a few interviews and most of them were fairly positive about the working conditions. The biggest complaint I remember reading is that they wish they got to work on more original projects instead of just foreign ones.

There was a time when Simpsons did a couch gag portraying Korean animation studios as sweatshops and Korean animators actually complained that it was an unfair portrayal (granted that could just be studio heads trying to protect their image if we wanna go into tin-foil-hat mode).

I am not being dishonest. They use the exact same principles. Do you even know what they are? You admitted you couldn't name any or name any animator that uses different ones.

You already admitted that you were being dishonest so it's too late to backpedal now.

I didn't you just can't refute me

I'm mostly in your side (I think that the average anime is better that the average cartoon) and I unsdertand the difference in philosophy but what are those different principles of anime?, I'm really curious about that.

You did, with your "kek" posting. You admitted you were being dishonest.

This conversation should have ended as soon as people started trying to argue that Anime follows completely different principles than American animation. Only somebody who knows fuck all about animation would even try to make that claim. The stylistic differences are apparent, but the underlying principles are the same.

there are no different principles

How is posting kek being dishonest?

> what are those different principles of anime
Pretty much everything involving character design, animation and storyboarding. Like using more detailed drawings but fewer of them, using a lot of frame skipping, and various time-saving techniques like still images or semi-animated images sliding over the screen.

How is it not? Instead of responding normally you just shut down and just said "kek" to everything. Total admission of defeat. Why are you still here?

It does follow completely different principles. You are the one who doesn't know anything about animation.

Oh, he doesn't understand what "principles of animation" mean

You mean you don't.

Did you not notice that he had about five seconds of animation from each position, and that the song was just cutting to different parts of it? That all the top-down shots were literally the same animation being repeated every time? And this looks like one of their big expenses for the show at that.

I'm not saying that anime can't look good, I'm just saying that you didn't post a particularly good example of it looking good.

Moving the goalposts. First it was Hanna Barbera tier animation, now it's not good enough for completely different reasons. As for those reasons, I have no idea what you're talking about. Every shot seems to be unique.

They responded with kek because you claimed that anime follows different principles than American animation and got defensive instead of actually backing up your claim. You still haven't backed it up.

Your mistake was using the word "principles" when you're really talking about stylistic factors like character design and technical factors like framerate, not the actual theory behind the animation. Principles like:
> Squash and stretch
> Anticipation
> Overlapping action
> Follow through
> Slow in and slow out
> Arcs
> Secondary action
> Timing
are universal across all forms of animation because they have a basis in real-world physics. This includes stop motion, hand drawn (Japanese and American), and CGI.

You act like anime doesn't follow these principles because "it looks different." Please read an article on the principles and try to locate them in the clip you posted. Most of them are very self-explanitory, even a non-animator such as yourself should be able to spot them.

Not that user, but a principle is NOT a law and can't be used to analize and it's not mandatory. Like Fayol's administration principles, they don't need to be applied to every organization

kek

You admitted that you were being dishonest and it's too late to backpedal now.

>Murican education

Corruption

>people trusting a small sample one sided piece of a fact
>ITS A FACT SON

?

I... wasn't the one who posted "kek?" I literally specified that in the very first sentence. Did you even read anything I wrote?

I tried to actually address your argument, and now you're dismissing everyone who disagrees with you because somebody posted "kek" at you?

And somehow I'm the one being dishonest?

Attached: josephhmm.jpg (720x569, 60K)

>I... wasn't the one who posted "kek?"
Sure you weren't.

At the time of release, each VA was getting $360,000 per episode, considering the film was the length of 4 episodes, they could've potentially been paid $1.44 million per VA

Stop deflecting.

Stop posting. You already conceded defeat.

cringe

If they also sounded as good as the Japanese.

Do you even realize what Hanna Barbara animation is? It is creating a loop and then reusing it repeatedly. That's what they are doing. Yes, they got tricky with the cuts but that's getting creative with how you are using the animation, not producing more of it. The audience members had about as much animation as the guy on stage, which is a concern when he's the focus on the whole scene. And if that is (likely) one of the best scenes from the anime, I could assume that the rest is not much better.

>Every shot seems to be unique.
Well since you can't see it, here you go. Got the Youtube timer bar so you can see that it isn't just me grabbing the same animation a few seconds apart. The first two rows are clearly the same animation as well, just with the perspective zoomed out so you can see the whole stage. The third row is a different animation set, but obviously reused three times.

Attached: Untitled.png (1724x719, 2.08M)

scientologist, what did you expect?

>That's what they are doing.
I don't see it and your screenshots don't do anything to illustrate it. I seriously have no idea what you are talking about. It keeps using unique cuts of animation.

Is this supposed to be from a famous show?

No one remembers 5 Centimeters

Why are you lying?

Your Name was more memorable to me.

You know, I had a more detailed post written out going through an anime clip from the sakuga booru and pointing out, with timestamps, the different principles of animation it demonstrated but... fuck it. It's obvious you only care about "winning" arguments with strangers on the internet and have no interest in actually learning anything about animation.

Attached: thiswasahugewasteoftime.spy.jpg (396x558, 68K)

It was the Youtube video that user posted, as an example of how anime doesn't re-use animation loops repeatedly for their effect.

I want to see it user. It might be fun to see how it's used in a different culture.

No one remember it.

>It's obvious you only care about "winning" arguments with strangers on the internet and have no interest in actually learning anything about animation.
You don't get to try to pull this kind of shit after your dishonest tactic of claiming that we were talking about perspective and squash and stretch, and then just going "kek" at everything I said.

I said nothing about any loops and reuse.

Again, why are you lying? What do you hope to accomplish with this? Do you think that your lies have the power to warp reality or something?

The first and second rows doesn't seem to be from the same animation loop

Oh boy, the irony.

your a tool if you believe any of this, i hope you know that.

>What's going on he-

Attached: 302.gif (320x240, 975K)

He's not really wrong. America has practically abandoned hand-drawn movies, and most of their shows are outsourced.

yes he is, there is 30 something studios that do work for commercials and small projects in my state alone and that doesn't even take into account that in the web age 2d animators are literally a couple of clicks away, also your moving the fucking goalpost you shitposting weeb.

Commercials and small scale projects vs:
also your moving the fucking goalpost you shitposting weeb.

> also your moving the fucking goalpost you shitposting weeb.
No goalposts were moved, no shitposting occured, and no evidence of me being a weeb has surfaced anywhere.

ah so your the Yea Forumsutist that gets made when people call him Yea Forumsutistic like you deserve and ritualistically stalk Yea Forums for shitposting, how you haven't been perma banned yet is a mystery.

Wait, why did it paste this:
>also your moving the fucking goalpost you shitposting weeb.
I copied this to my clipboard and this is what should have been pasted:
myanimelist.net/anime/season

Ah so you're the redditor who doesn't want to talk about any actual topics and just wants to endlessly reiterate, for no apparent reason, that he knows who I am.

>how you haven't been perma banned yet is a mystery.
How you think that it's a permabannable offense to correct people's wrong ideas about anime is a mystery.

here

Attached: 1532401659688.webm (398x224, 2.59M)

meant to link to here

Not to mention music videos like Gorrilaz.
Also, can you post some 2D animation commercials. There was a superman commerical that I remember that gets posted in threads like this, but I can't find it.

Attached: 1551037962531.webm (640x360, 1.36M)

what do you mean

>character design, shot composition, cinematography, background art, effects, sound design, music, voice acting, writing
Those things are part of an animated work, but the only part of an animated work that we're discussing is the ANIMATION. Everything else is irrelevant to this thread.

Union regulations, larger scale of advertising, et cetera.

I was responding to a claim that motion is the only thing that matters in a work of animation.

another eastern v western thread

Attached: maxresdefault.jpg (1280x720, 113K)

3d's here to stay motherfucker

Japanese animation didn't develop the "12 Principles of Animation." That's something Disney's 9 Old Men did. All of those American principles can be traced back to Snow White.
Meanwhile, all of the Japanese animation principles can be traced back to Astro Boy.
>reliance on stills
>scenes where only the mouth moves
>animating before the dialogue
>large use of recycling
As opposed to the American way of animating, the Japanese way was developed to be cheap and fast, not to look good.

This shit again? Why don't you post a gif you fucking butt-mongrel? Anime movie are just camera pans and key frames with Photoshop effects.

mmmmmm,What does her tummy tastes like?

Attached: 1544969823361.png (437x437, 434K)

At least you're admitting this entire shitflinging from you is not because of the animation but because of your unjustified hatred of a country for unrelated reasons

Dunning kreuger-kun strikes again. Do you finally know how to spell otaku correctly yet you weeb?

How is this bad?

The principles of animation were not developed, they're just a compilation of thechniques and general observations, they're not laws or a mandatory process.

Lol That wasn't even me. I'm the guy who's been giving you PTSD you faggot. So much so you think about me every thread! Welp, spread them cheeks faggot were going at it again DK-kun.

They aren't mandatory, no
But your product will very likely be shit if they don't follow them

>people are still replying to you after this
teach me master

Attached: impressive.verynice.gif (350x255, 1.78M)

fag

>Doesn't know the definition of principle and use the "you hate freedom" card.
user please, stop embarrasing yourself and your country.

Because unlike Japan, we only have Romaji, our elementary schools don't teach us at least one martial arts(let alone anything substantial beyond that point), and we're more concerned with making things progressive to the oh-so perfect female demographic rather than trying to at least catch up to Japan's IQ average...

And now I await to get banned.

>Still using IQ as measurement of intelligency even when it was originally developed as a test for retarded children.

They were developed as in early animation doesn't follow them.

How early?. Most animators used most of them before Disney.

Fuck off, tripfag.

you know perfectly well what I mean

Anyone have any 3D disney/pixar/dreamworks webms that are impressive? I don't have any.

Attached: 1538363396660.webm (1280x720, 2.28M)

They were developed over a couple decades, so I'd say they didn't really get them down until Snow White. Most silent stuff doesn't follow a lot of the principles.
youtube.com/watch?v=Hz31ZQOASno

I miss when the east v west threads were about what the two industries could learn from each other. All this "who's better" shit is retarded. Both countries can make amazing animation when they have the time and financial incentive but the realities of being a business first get in the way.

somewhat this

anime is what happens when you don't complain about the "calarts" style and let it grow for the next few decades

What movie is this ??

dreamwork's sinbad

Some of them are optional and not really a necesity, that's why they're just principles and not laws.

And it's why stuff looks better when you use them, as opposed to when you don't.

More like anime is what happens when when the people who pass their skills on to the next generation are Jay Ward and Sam Singer instead of Marc Davis and Chuck Jones.

You guys are so retarded. Limited animation was used considerably in the states around the same time as it was in "modern" anime like Astroboy. The only difference was Japan stuck to it vs america which moved away from it. There's no secret esoteric explanation.

If no one stops this calarts shit anime will take over, it's just more pleasing to look at than that horrid artstyle for normies

How much of that budget went towards Bart's penis?

Then don't enter animation? Low wages are supposed to signal an oversaturated market, stop fucking applying.

>implying Marc Davis is a good artist and animator

Okay then, please tell me how the lead animator for such characters as Snow White, Alice, Tinker Bell, Aurora, Maleficent, and Cruella de Vil is a bad artist and animator.

He drew cartoons and not photo-realistic people. Animation doesn't take any skill to do, much less for female characters.

Anime has a more "pragmatic" aproach to animation, it's primary objective is to convey emotions in the viewer and animation it's just a tool for that goal

I wish I could be a VA. It wouldn't really matter how much money I make or what the role is as long as it's VA. It just seems like a lot of fun. It's always been an untapped passion of mine... that may never see the light of day.

>If no one stops this calarts shit anime will take over, it's just more pleasing to look at than that horrid artstyle for normies
What sort of dumbass logic is this? Normies will be put off by the thing that you say is for normies?

bump