Why are all the characters except Viren so fucking retarded...

Na, that was when the Dragons and Elves committed ethnic cleansing against the humans.

I'm not sure why they did that.
Right now, it feels like a clumsy attempt at balancing out his sympathetic side. But it just feels inconsistent with how much he cared for Harrow.

If they wanted to emphasise Dark Magic and utilitarianism as a slipper slope, a good way to have him decide to kill the princess later after investing to heavily in the defence plan.
Make it more about Sunk Cost Fallacy rather than the "This is your brain on Dark Magic".

>slipper slope

No.. That war started with the ethnic cleansing elves commited agaisnt humans.

Elves were pricks first because they were salty that humans got their hands on CHAD magic and they didn't feel special anymore so they tried to stimp that shit out hard

No matter how you spin it. This is all the elves fault.

Hey guys I'd just like to congratulate you all for having good discussion. Not like those Star Vs Cucks threads.

This is genuinely what the bare minimum show discussion thread should look like. But those Star Vs Cucks can't even do the bare minimum.

Because characters can be just as smart as writes and since it's netflix ones, they're all retarded. And unironically "bad" guy is the only decent one. I mean thats how they see smart people - they see them as evil ones.

Why is there a few anons that are smitten with Viren? Is it because he makes the choices they would make? Are they blinded by their own bias?

Impression I got from these is that supposedly he is one of the only people who wants to get shit done and make Humanity great again while everyone else is varying degrees of stupid. Like the previous king was just a fucking moron

I didn't like him the first season. He's a sniveling uptight lying faggot. (Very realistically written too) and I took great joy in seeing Harold put him on his knees.

But in season 2, every other character showed exactly how mindlessly ignorant and "The power of love/The heart of the cards/Captain Planet" they were. I couldn't help but want to side with the uptight bitch, despite being my most hated stereotype.

Like Frankie Foster and Herriman, but their pros and cons inverted.

he did it because the king was not hard enough. V said their people should look out for their own, kind said he wanted to aid the other kingdoms that were starving. V said, bro if we do that we will starve and the king was "but I wanna help theeeem" so V was like, If we gank the dragon I can use some dark arts do generate us endless food.

I still don't see the big deal. Killing the underage children of the dead monarch was extremely common on feudal times, especially on times of crisis. Burgers give too much importance to the divine right of royal bloodline when it never truly mattered, except maybe in Japan but the emperor rarely had political power.

he could invest in mind control magic.

because he seems to be aware of cause and effect while everyone else is just willing to jump into the storm and roll the dice on it, sometimes literally

Alot of it depends. The fact that he was so loyal to the king to the point where he was willingly going to sacrifice himself to suddenly want to kill his heir is just a quick turn around.

He cares. Harrow was a fucking idiot.

He was trapped in an unwinnable trolley problem

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Everyone else doesnt give a shit about xadia because why should they and viren is a shit disturber

He could win with magic and had a solution but the king was a jackass

>Lol just steal the body of one of your men like captain ginyu that totally wont make you reviled

Was that related? Thought the famine thing just involved killing some beast and using dark magic but the king didn't want to

That was more than 1k years before the start of the series and it doesnt seem like any of the human kingdoms give a shit. It just seems like katolis has a long history of trying to invade xadia for one reason or another.

The king had no solution. killing the dragon was what was needed for magic ritual and in the end the king agreed because he had no plan of his own.

Killing the lava titan was about 10 years before the start and is pretty irrelevant. The king "acted like a jackass" after viren told him he should soul swap with one of his men and resigned himself to be killed for following virens previous advice of killing the dragon king and the egg.

Thunder was killed later for revenge.

Callum told Viren he should rot in prison for keeping the dragon egg, and Ezran trusts Callum. Kindly taking the princes back home and trying to be a good advisor wasn't an option for Viren. And he can't let them reach Xadia and be instantly murdered by border patrol dragons because they are carrying the dragon egg with them.

I stand corrected. my mind is fuzzy.
> viren told him he should soul swap with one of his men and resigned himself to be killed for following virens previous advice of killing the dragon king and the egg.
sounds like solid advice and if you find it shady it might not be the prime time to bow out while living a new system and an 8 year old in charge.

Human warmongers trying to pretend the dragons want war when there has been peace for centuries until the humans decided to cross the border
Typical subsentient bullshit

>Amaya
That's bullshit, when he made that offer he knew there was no chance she would accept when the princes might be alive

Great reason to try to sieze power and slaughter your friends children

All Viren has to do is tell everyone that the King ordered him to take it.

>follow wonderful mans advice
>this kind is a moron!
>we should follow wonderful man!
Kek

Who's going to believe him, though?

What do you mean you dumb nigger? Harrow accepted virens solution to the famine.

I think when the fag who is only in charge because you have been saving him for years makes it clear he does not really view you as friend and humiliates you, its all the reason you need.

Opeli, Amaya, and basically everyone but Soren and Claudia seems to be way too predisposed to distrust Viren. It's like the writers gave them a memo.

The trusted advisor to the king for at least a decade

Viren is pretty much a character who was written like he was from a real world in a show where every other character was written to be in a kids show where everyone holds hands and sings friendship songs.

Dragons are the real enemy in this show. Fuckers antagonize, start wars, and kill indiscriminately. We should convince some bro elves to do some monster slaying quests.

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>Nearly kills half his own people for something that has nothing to do with them and thinks the several thousand problem starving to death will be happy about it because "well, at least we're suffering together"
>Viren offers a solution to save both countries from mass starvation like the fucking Chad he is
>"DOES IT HAVE A FAMILY!"
I wonder if the writers actually thought we'd see this as a moral issue or if they were trying to bring us to Viren's side.

He's the only character who actually understands the gravity of the situation, that they can't afford the tradition of letting the new king rule. Humanity is outgunned and outclassed and putting Ezran on the throne would mean a spoiled idealist kid with no military experience is at the head of a war to decide the fate of humanity.

He does view him as a friend, but that friend is overstepping his bounds, don't be a sperg like Viren who can't understand basic human interaction

Trusted by Harrow and even that had waned a bit towards the end. Everyone else seems to tolerate him at best.

I think that's supposed to be the tragedy of his character. A decent enough person pushed to the extremes due to everyone around him being apathetic and following the path of least resistance.

which really didn't make sense because we've seen nothing that would have everyone else dislike him.

There are no bounds in true friendship. Its not like he asked to fuck his wife.

i agree

he uses dark magic and everyone knows it and they are racist towards dark magic users

I wonder if he caught shit because Sarai died during the retrieval of the golem heart. Like he was blamed because it was his idea or something.

I don't get your point

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At least Amaya seems to be at peace with it, looking at the conversation they had by her grave. Sarai joined the expedition and went back to help Viren by her own volition, everyone knew the risks.

We are not the only ones.

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The war started centuries before he was even born.

The trolley problem was
>Kill the Magma Titan to save 100,000 people
or
>Let the 100,000 people die without taking the life one Magma Titan

Harrow's solution was to tie up his own people and throw them in front of the Trolley so that it would half the impact for the Duren victims.
100,000 people still die but now half of them are victims of mass murder at the hands of their own king.

Didn't those guards die protecting him anyway?

Seriously, why didn't he just go out to an empty field and save everyone the trouble?

It's more that he is a character that is refreshingly pragmatic and logical in a genre where most characters tend towards idealistic nativity and it's frustrating that in order to make him the villain he is written to only occasionally act idiotically evil and out of character for no other reason other than to justify portraying him as the bad guy.

>there are no bounds in true friendship
>lists a bound in true friendship
Which is it?

>centuries of peace pass
>faggot dark mage wants to start shit
>ITS THE SAME WAR
Absolutely moronic

This is what I don't get.
Dark Magic is treated as some massive, corrupting threat that has doomed humanity...except barely anyone seems to use or even like it.

Fans go on about sustainability and resources but there's no indication that Dark Magic was ever widely used.

I don't get how it would even be unsustainable. We've used animals as livestock for millenia.

There weren't "centuries of peace", but on-and-off wars and skirmishes.

It's similar to the hundred years war between france and england.

I think the writers want to make a point about sustainability, but also indulge in common fantasy tropes of magic being this mysterious esoteric thing.

Fuck dragons. Fuck elves. I hope they all get their shit wrecked next season. Humanity first!

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It wasn't stealing though, they were specifically going to ask for a volunteer

Not Viren though:):) he won't step up until he gets publicly shamed and even then he drops his plan in a second and traps his friend in a bird and orders the murder of his children and seized power because his feefees got hurt

First of all there weren't "centuries of peace" there were constant battles at the border over that time.
Secondly even if you for whatever reason decide to count the incident with Thunder as being a separate conflict it still wouldn't start with Viren since killing Thunder was a direct act of vengeance for Thunder killing the queens.
So it's more like "Faggot Dragon commits multiple regicide".

I don't think you understand how elves work.

>Not Viren though:):)
He was literally about to make that offfer when Harrow decided then was a good time to throw his weight around and die like a moron leaving the nation in turmoil for the sake of his ego.
>and traps his friend in a bird
Harrow isn't in the bird, that's a retarded theory.
>and orders the murder of his children and seized power because his feefees got hurt
More like because the situation is too dire to put in the hands of a child especially one of a bloodline that is ruled by their emotions.

>thunder killing the queens
>while the humans were invading elf territory
>it is somehow the magifags fault that the humans decided to breach the border
Lies by omission are still lies

>There is nothing you can be more sure of than the glitter of Gold and the treachery of Elves

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So yeah he spergs out and becomes a traitor because harrow, the king and ultimate decision maker, made a decision, and Viren won't shut the fuck up. Viren just needs to accept the decision, but he shows his true colors.

>especially one of the bloodline who is ruled by their emotions
How ironic, since Viren himself is prone to emotional outbursts and acts like become a full on child killing traitor the second he gets put in his place

>The Goat Worrier
Damn.

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>The Pointlessly Tall
Gets me every time.

>while the humans were invading elf territory
"Invading" they dipped their fucking toes over the border for a couple hours (y'know the same shit the dragons have no problem doing to the humans?).
How is multiple homicide a reasonable response?
>it is somehow the magifags fault that the humans decided to breach the border
The elves and dragons don't seem to respect the border so why should the humans?

>So yeah he spergs out and becomes a traitor because harrow, the king and ultimate decision maker, made a decision, and Viren won't shut the fuck up. Viren just needs to accept the decision, but he shows his true colors.
What decision did Harrow make? "I guess I'll do nothing, die and leave the rest of humanity to suffer for my indecisiveness?" That makes Harrow a pathetic selfish jackass.

It's not like the humans had a say in the border which was forced on them. Xadia was their land too.
If the Dragons and Elves had their way, even existing as a human would be against their laws. And it's not like they've been respecting segregation either if we look at Lujanne.

Harrow goes on about being a servant to his country but shows his true colours in how treats his servants and how little regards he actually has for his citizens lives beyond the mere performance of benevolence.
We see that when he offers up the lives of his people to assuage his desire to help Duren.

If he had given a second thought to his actions beyond "what makes ME feel less guilty", he'd have ensured the stability of the kingdom beyond one letter to his kids before throwing himself on the elves swords.

>The long nosed
oy vey

Callum doesn't seem to care that much for his people either. Maybe there was a cultural shift for writers in the past coming from working class backgrounds and modern writers coming from upper class bubbles and pretty much writing only for the same upper class bubble.

Bait post.

Viren's solutions are bandaids to cancer - he is not solving the underlying problem of the Human/Xadia conflict.

There's only one final solution

>Rayla: This is my wish: please, destroy me. Otherwise, you will be destroyed. Only one life-form can be chosen to evade the destruction and seize the future! And yours is not the existence which should die. You need the future; it is what you live for! Thank you Callum, my life was meaningful because of you.

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I sympathize with Viren being the only politician who actually seems to be trying to accomplish anything, but think he should have just said that the elves took the princes and that he would take temporary power in their stead. It was stupid to outright lie and claim that they were dead without bodies to show. It basically killed any credibility he'd have with anyone from that point on.

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Viren's biggest problem is that he's a terrible politician

I think it's a problem of all these simple children's show tropes like the "Good" fantasy monarchy rubbing up against modern values like a scepticism towards hierarchies.
Older shows seemed more preoccupied between "niceness" vs "meaness". It was more reflective of the politics of the playground than the realworld.

THAT and generally the company that platforms your show is going to be less nervous about the show advocating for gender and racial diversity within a hierarchical structure, rather than the total lack of any hierarchy.

His last interaction with him proved otherwise.

This. Harrow was the real enemy of Humanity.

I too respond to my friend trying to save my life by telling him to get on his knees in front of me, where he belongs and declare him merely a servant.

>He meant that he was a servant of Katolis, like how Harrow viewed himself
He specifically pointed in front of himself and made Viren bow to him, after Viren has indicated that he saw Harrow specifically as an equal. He demanded that Viren acknowledge his status.

If Harrow wanted Viren to acknowledge himself as a servant of Katolis, then he presented himself as the personification of the Kingdom, if not the Kingdom as an extension of himself.
It comes up again (or previously) when Harrow saw sacrificing the lives of his people for Duren as a sacrifice for himself.

What will become of our favorite warrior poet next season?

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Nice guy, bad leader.

That's it exactly. I just want for once, the "villain" to actually be right and not be an evil end boss. Maybe the creators of Avatar could manage that with Viren but we'll see.

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Gotta break dad out of jail.

Really I want to play it off that he wasn't in the absolute wrong, but he did things in the worst fucking way.
Ala extremist groups.
>Black panthers
Provide a defense against the increasing lynching of people of their race and the continuing descrimination against them, GOOD!
Make armed militia and march everywhere causing violence and mayhem, BAD.

>Al Queda
Stop the continuing abuse of their homeland from foreign powers that's been an ongoing trend for the past 100 years, GOOD
FUCKING MURDERING EVERYONE = BAD

>Various Ecoterrorists
Wants people to stop fucking over our planet, GOOD
Proceeds to fuck over other people, BAD

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I can understand that at that point the King was just done with Viren's shit, acting so independently and bringing down Elf Assassins onto him and his family.

They were friends yes, but Viren's bullshit needed to be controlled, and the only thing he could think of at the time was to enforce that he was king. Of course we could argue he's a terrible king, but that's not the point here.

Ezra may be a lost cause since he's dr. Dolittle but Callum would've made a fine puppet king for Viren to fight the Elves with too bad it was ruined by Viren's hatred of Callum for wanting to bone his little girl.

The arguments over not being an actual son of Harrow would've even been quashed by Callum having near unanimous support from the army.

>two families live on the same property
>one is fucking rich as shit and can do whatever the hell they want
>one is poor as shit
>poor family finds a lottery ticket and finally has a chance at being on equal footing with the rich guys
>rich assholes start screeching like autists and kick the poor family off the land
FUCK ELFFAGS AND FUCK DRAGONS

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Harrow was an idiot and Viren makes sense but he'll jump at any opportunity to go mad with power. Callum and Claudia are the best candidates to take up the kingdom's leadership, the fact that its /ss/ is icing on the cake.

For me the core problem in TDP is that the writers want their morally grey tale without commitment so Viren is the designated bad guy and dark magic is bad, period and don't ask further questions. Woke media tend to be strangely conservative so we have a glorification of monarchy but maybe it's incidental or just maybe the Californian elite still mourning for Drumpf. Who knows.

Elves are assholes. Dragons are assholes. The show has done a great job of painting it this way, and any human assholes are actually ONE dude.

So here we are in the show. They'll either keep up what they've set up so far, promissing a fresh new perspective to morality and not black-white mentality, which will be kino...
Or they'll pull some bullshit out of their ass to make Elves Right, Humans EVIIIILLLL.

They will never EVER explain why killing animals to fuel dark magic is any worse than killing them for meat and hide. They probably won't say Humans are evil, but the fact that dark magic is will never be seriously questioned or explained in a way other than it makes you crazy and gives you sick glowing purple face scars.

In a way e remind me of gul'dan from warcraft, he knows the best strategy is to put a idiot on power to be tbe pure muscle, while he the brain stay on the shadows.

I'm pretty sure humans are the real monsters because dark magic = industrialization in the minds of these hacks.

>Viren's bullshit needed to be controlled
What bullshit? Finding a solution to a foreign nation's crisis that prevents the starvation of his countrymen and keeps his king from being guillotined?

My guess is that all magic has an effect on shit just in different ways so elves are straight up no better for using their magic than humans are for using dark magic. Watch it turn out the elves use of magic indirectly caused the famine or something.

Sounds pretty cool as an idea, and would be awesome to see as a revelation to the characters, but how would that work? Does a start go supernova after enough star elves do magic?

If he wanted to be king, he would've done it by now. He would've waited until King Harrow let his people starve, then lead the revolt against Harrow. He didn't though did he? He knew that while sometimes naive harrow was a man of the people, which was what was best for the people. Now what the people needs is someone willing to do what's necessary to fend off the elves, which wasn't what king Harrow was, King Harrow wanted to be honorable, even if it put lives in jeopardy. Now what the people need is someone willing to lead an army to defend the breach, but no-one else realized that, and all wanted to wait for Ezran to return, regardless of the consequences.

The thing about Harrrow and Callum is that what they want isn't what's best for the people. It's what's best for their conscience. Dwight D. Eisenhower shook the hands of the boys he was sending to normandy, and his hand didn't stop shaking until he got home. Of course he sent many of those boys to die, knowingly even. But what about those at threat from the SS, or in german concentration camps? Eisenhower knew he wouldn't sleep well knowing what he did, but he did the right thing, because the right thing isn't often the easy thing. The same can not be said for Harrow. He knew he could save lives by remaining alive, but instead he let himself die because he knew he'd have to send another men to his death, and that's not "honorable," it doesn't sit well on his conscience. Viren knows he risks his, his childrens, and the princes lives, but what about the millions of families who will be slaughtered unless a united humanity stands to fight them? Viren is the only one willing to be kept up at night by the memories of his actions, if it means doing what saves lives.

>Why are all the characters except Viren so fucking retarded?
fucking this >The thing about Harrrow and Callum is that what they want isn't what's best for the people. It's what's best for their conscience. Dwight D. Eisenhower shook the hands of the boys he was sending to normandy, and his hand didn't stop shaking until he got home. Of course he sent many of those boys to die, knowingly even. But what about those at threat from the SS, or in german concentration camps? Eisenhower knew he wouldn't sleep well knowing what he did, but he did the right thing, because the right thing isn't often the easy thing. The same can not be said for Harrow. He knew he could save lives by remaining alive, but instead he let himself die because he knew he'd have to send another men to his death, and that's not "honorable," it doesn't sit well on his conscience. Viren knows he risks his, his childrens, and the princes lives, but what about the millions of families who will be slaughtered unless a united humanity stands to fight them? Viren is the only one willing to be kept up at night by the memories of his actions, if it means doing what saves lives.
/thread

If honestly be fine with Viren of all the other leaders, politicians, and advisors weren't such idiots and didn't react to regicide like a minor annoyance

Why the fuck does the pentarchy need a unanimous decision to defend itself?
I mean, fuck the king of Neolandia, who maybe has 3 thousand troops in totality, but for everyone to say they won't do it because one child monarch didn't like fighting makes the rest of the human kingdoms look like limp bait to be conquered. People like Viren are the only reason that humanity wasn't put through the meat grinder. It's like Sol Regen, just one guy minding his own business, and then had to fuck up the king of all the dragons because he took off to go massacre a whole city.

Monarchs that need a "quick trip to the little kings room" need to have their heads on a pike.

Yeah, I don't mind having other leaders and council members disagree with Viren and his big war-plan, but I wish they actually had their own range of opinions on anything.

The only other politician in the whole show who made any logical point was the young girl queen that told Viren to piss off with his dramatic slide-show presentations.

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>The only other politician in the whole show who made any logical point was the young girl queen that told Viren to piss off with his dramatic slide-show presentations.
And even she felt like she only existed to fuck over Viren. "I'm not gonna send soldiers to their death." Bitch then you're just waiting for everyone to die.

Though I doubt that idea would happen, a possibility for it is that since magic depends on the environment, it too takes from the land and just as directly. Doubt it would happen though.

>Not Viren though:):) he won't step up until he gets publicly shamed
The only accomplished dark mage of the kingdom, who has proof one is needed(the famine) and is an important statesman hesitated for half a second?
Harrow's a tard, and Viren actually being ready to go for it anyway just proves that he actually valued Harrow more than anything, to the point of doing something completely stupid and asinine.

If you kill your enemies, they win

Remind me to Peter Parker

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That's why kid monarchs never happened in history. They were either puppets or quickly killed and even the puppets were lucky if they could pass puberty

S3 when?

There have been kings as young as 14, but I suppose that may not count depending on what you consider a child.

Here's a solution. Just call the magic something else other than Dark Magic. Calling it 'Dark Magic' basically just screams that you're evil.

Some of you guys are alright

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>only 6 Viren pics in rule.34
WTF?

Viren is pure and not for sexual

Viren is for the intellectuals. People who watch the show for Rayla do so because they want her to be their elf gf. People who watch for Verin want a compelling story about the fate of mankind and a man driven to do his worst.

Elves? Magical superiority? They can shove their magic. Same as anything else: if it's hostile, you kill it.

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>Their reasoning is right but their use of violence is bad
That's bogstandard hollywood morality there.

Historically we have seen both peaceful and violent protests lead to a fairer world. We've seen peaceful movements get beaten down and extinguished. We've seen cruel systems get toppled by violence, some are for the better and most lead to another bad system. Does that mean the original's toppling was bad?
That'd be something worth exploring by the writers. But
>Violence is never worth it and just leads to more violence while peace leads to similair peace
Is a pretty shallow understanding of things.

The problem of grey morality applied to worldbuilding is that it means no good guys and probably no clean or happy solutions. Which doesn't jive well with kids show writing standards.

Viren's bullshit at that point was to offer his own life instead.
If he had been a good friend and king he'd have listened, but he was too caught up in himself to do so.

That's the kind of issues I'd love to see grappled with.

He wouldn't have to do anything if he hadn't started the war.

The current conflict was started when he decided to lead a murder expedition into Xadia despite knowing that the creature he was trying to harvest was sapient and that Thunder would be pissed off about it. He then exacerbated it by killing a child (apparently). Everything happening in the current plot is a consequence of Viren's actions.

They feel like the get-along gang with Viren as the Complainer Whose Always Wrong.

Right now if the kids had just stuck round and imprisoned Viren instead of setting off straight away, there would be no plot and conflict.
Heck if Harrow had just listened to Viren and let hin die in his place, there would be no plot.

Imagine if there where court politics with multiple people vying for control. There would be even more pressure on Viren to drive him to extreme decisions, and more problems for Ezran when he gets home.

Does a lottery ticket drain the life out of other beings in order to make you richer?

The current plot wouldn't have happened if the Elves and Dragons hadn't kicked the humans out of their homes and had been willing to see and treat them as equals.

Heck the current, current plot wouldn't have happened if Harrow had accepted Viren's solution of "What's happening in Duren sucks but we genuinly don't have anything to give".

And no one knew if the Magma Titan was sapient. We still don't know.

>Callum doesn't seem to care that much for his people either.
>The thing about Harrrow and Callum is that what they want isn't what's best for the people.
Pretty sure ending the war preemptively would be in everyone's best interests. If your argument is that Callum should be pushing the 'his people' to the detriment of others rather than working toward a solution that works for everyone, then yes, the show is probably not for you, as it is clearly in condemnation of that kind of behaviour.

>The current plot wouldn't have happened if the Elves and Dragons hadn't kicked the humans out of their homes and had been willing to see and treat them as equals.
...And it also wouldn't have happened if humans had regulated their use of dark magic rather than going full vampire. Not that any of this matters, it's literally ancient history. Arguing that Viren is in the right for wanting to go to Xadia and kill shit because of this would be like arguing that American natives have a moral pass to kill white people whenever they want.

>And no one knew if the Magma Titan was sapient.
The way the characters act and the conflict is framed makes it pretty clear.

Doesn't condemn Harrow placing his own moral image over the lives of people living under his rule though.

I agree Callum isn't in the wrong however.

Chaddy daddy did nothing wrong

>...And it also wouldn't have happened if humans had regulated their use of dark magic rather than going full vampire.
We have seen no proof that it was ever used by more than a few mages. Most humans don't even seem to like it.
>Not that any of this matters, it's literally ancient history.
Ancient history still has an effect on the present, and the situation hasn't even changed so drastically since then.
>would be like arguing that American natives have a moral pass to kill white people whenever they want.
Moral pass or not, you can't argue their in a good situation for not having done so.

Depends if they go out for a steak after

>People who watch for Verin want a compelling story about the fate of mankind and a man driven to do his worst
Yeah but I want to watch him take the D too

What that could have done with is Viren looking dumbstruck, then responding "so this is our alliance? We shared our food for nothing?" or simply. Would have made explicit what I took as implicit as well. Behold the Great and Good King, maybe he should be High King, eh...?

Delet

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No, I want him to gag and choke on mindbreaking elf cock. I want to watch spit, cum and snot drip down his ruined face

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That’s going in the book

>elves topping
Absolutely disgusting

Based
>Viren topping

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>Ancient history still has an effect on the present
Agreed. It's retarded to start shit over stuff that happened over a thousand years ago, though. Everybody who was wronged - as we far as we know, people on both sides were - died a long time ago, as did everyone related to them.

>and the situation hasn't even changed so drastically since then
I disagree on that. No human kingdom besides Katolis seems to have kept fighting the elves in intermittent burst. Hell, the other kingdoms don't even seem interested in dark magic. It honestly seems like Katolis has just refused to let shit go after several thousand years.

>Moral pass or not, you can't argue their in a good situation for not having done so.
I can't and won't argue that forcefully evicting loads of people was a good idea, but it happened so long ago that it has very little bearing on the conflict now. Elves are in a pretty moral position right not, desu, since the only conflict we know of to have happened in the last several thousand years has been initiated by Katolis.

This is really a humans vs elves situation, rather a Katolis vs Xadia situation.

>This is really a humans vs elves situation
*isn't

They Elves and Dragons continue to enforce that border (whilst also secretly ignoring it themselves, looking at you Lujanne).
If they had truly moved on there would have been an attempt to reconcile, even trade. There's never been any sign that the Elves and Dragons have ever changed their mentality towards humans.

If anything the humans seem much better since Viren seems to the only human interested in fighting back.

That'd be because Katolis is right on the border.

On a separate note, I'd love it if it turned out there where less zealous Elves who secretly traded with humans across the border, maybe even supplying Dark Magic materials.

Considering at the SDCC panel they mentioned Elves weren't always allied with dragons this could be a possibility.

will they fuck in season 3

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The fact that Thunder has a literal kill on sight policy for trespassing means that the tensions are far from over.
If things had simmered down he’d have landed and told them to get the fuck out, and to drop anything they’d nicked.

Except he's not. He's whiny, petulant and backed himself into a corner by making poor gambles.

High Elves are the Eternal Anglo of WhFB

>Hey Claudia, check out this new poem I came up with.
>Ok, what is it?
>Ok, here it goes. "There once was an elf from Nantucket....."

>"Viren did nothing wrong"
>Literally lied to everyone about the egg being destroyed kept it hidden to himself.

People just seem to really gloss over that, huh?

Viren does have noble thoughts but clearly has a big complex of inferiority and lack of trust, which makes hin look irrational in the eyes of everyone.

He kept the egg hidden from everyone rather than explaining himself or use it for others' benefit.

He kept obsessing over the mirror just because "the dragon was keeping it so it must be important!" despite benefiting nobody but himself. Its why Aaravos could so easily manipulate him.

>Dark magic doesnt seem so bad
>We kill and raise cattle anyways so it should be fine.

We have yet to see the dark magic used to its max, not even with Viren, so we cant just assume the way he and Claudia uses it is the same as the ancient humans when this became a problem. The fact Caelum was able to learn magic on his own also shows that is not about humans being unable to magic but just that it's easier.

We know dark magic wrecks ones body, who says it doesnt also become addictive? When we consume cattle, the idea is to not kill the whole herd so it can regrow later. Dark Magic tends to be portrayed as "drain everything dont leave anything behind". Who is to say overuse and addiction wont lead to them needing to drain more and more until animals aren't enough to fill that need?

I don't think everyone's saying he did nothing wrong. Clearly trying to kill the prince is very wrong. I think people can just find some logic behind most of his actions. He tries to do things the right way but ends up having to resort to drastic measures when that doesn't work.

Also, how do we know the King didn't know about the Dragon Egg?

he has a lack of trust because he's surrounded fucking idiots
>He kept the egg hidden from everyone rather than explaining himself or use it for others' benefit.
he knew they would want him to return, which is a bad idea
>He kept obsessing over the mirror just because "the dragon was keeping it so it must be important!" despite benefiting nobody but himself. Its why Aaravos could so easily manipulate him.
the dragon kept the mirror close, it's obviously something important and he was right. He didn't know what it was or what it could do so saying he knew it would only benefit himself makes no sense.

Of course they aren't allied with them, they are their slaves

>'ate Elfs
>'ate Dragons
>'ate magic
Simple as

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High elves, orcs and dwarfs are all aspects of the eternal Anglo in WHF

I love that longbeards are basically the four yorkshiremen sketch come to life.

>We were evicted from our hole in the ground.

>The fact that Thunder has a literal kill on sight policy for trespassing means that the tensions are far from over.
Hadn't they already murdered something when he turned up? When someone kills a dude in public, the police don't come to have a friendly chat with them.

>he knew they would want him to return
Quite rightly. That would go a long way toward preventing a war. Viren just couldn't accept that they should never have shot first anyway.

We all know the elves wouldn't/won't stop the war just because they get their egg back. So giving your enemy a fucking nuke isn't a good idea.

The show already said that the gesture of two human princes specifically returning the egg will make the dragon queen call it off and since it's cartoon politics it'll probably work

>the show
do you mean the literal children who have no idea how politics work.
>it's cartoon politics it'll probably work
This is Viren's curse. He is trapped in a kids cartoon show and doesn't realize it.

>do you mean the literal children who thinks if aang masters all four elements he can solo the fire nation and bring balance to the force?
Same creator same shit

They were rushing the whole thing precisely because Thunder has had that policy for the past thousand years; it’s in the intro.
Besides, I’m fairly sure he flew in from a different direction

>cartoon politics
This is the crux of the issue, isn't it? Characters exist on completely different rules of logic from one another. They should have just made another 1 dimensional villain like Ozai

You're judging things from an audiences point of view and not the characters. We as the audience know things that the characters don't know. To expect Viren to know that giving the egg back will solve everything is just asinine.

Na it's just some dumb anons that think only in black and white mentality. They are unable to see Viren as anything more than 100% evil and always in the wrong.

No, Rayla said that. That was the point of view of one specific character, not the explanation of an omnipresent character.

I want to FUCK FUCK FUCK Viren!
I want to pound him into the ground everyday, leave him completely bitched out! I want him to become a slut craving my cock!
I love my handsome dark magic husband!

Tbh, I don't think giving the egg back will solve anything. Rayla and Callum are already at Xadia, and we still have five seasons left to go according to the writers.

I wonder who's behind this post.

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It will probably throw a spanner in the works, but the fact that by that time Viren and Aaravos will have Bro-op’d the sun elf army will also mean there’s a new grudge to settle.
Ultimately, it will have to be solved by Soren and his poetry.

Humans and elves are
in not such a good place
right now, to be fair

Calm down Aaravos

>dawi all asshurt that they'll never have a hero like Aenarion or Caledor I
Hell, even their ancient best of the best heroes aren't even Tyrion tier.

Viren is a retarded fuck too. He's at least an enjoyable disaster while the rest are just...meh.

After Viren couldn't get away with anything in S1 & 2, I hope everyone doesn't fall for the false flag Dark Elves just because Aaravos is on his side now.

I want to see it all go wrong Viren. Maybe have the False Flag Elves distract the human forces from an actual attack from the elves that get's them decimated. The humans are then desperate enough to turn to Viren for real but he has to make enough step down the slippery sloap to tell himself it was worth it.

>Thunder has had that policy for the past thousand years
They released a timeline in the latest con panel, Thunder only became king 300 years ago. Not that you are wrong about his policy regarding humans, but it's interesting information.

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And having caused many of the problems he claims to be trying to solve, he keep digging himself a bigger and bigger hole.

Because he makes all the right decisions that in an even moderately more cynical show would vindicate him. When the other kings refuse to band together against overtures of foreign invasion because they're too chickenshit, and he calls them cowards and traitors in frustration, it's damn hard not to take his side.

She's like two years older than him, hardly /ss/

cry me a fucking river, killing animals is not immoral. the show trying to present claudia killing a doe to heal soren from being a quadriplegic as an evil move just made me roll my eyes out of their sockets.

Context?

>The current conflict was started when he decided to lead a murder expedition into Xadia despite knowing that the creature he was trying to harvest was sapient and that Thunder would be pissed off about it.
gee you're right the life of a *possibly* sapient rock monster is worth more than that of a hundred thousand citizens.

>two teenagers attracted to each other travelling alone in life-or-death situations
if the show was realistic they'd be at it like rabbits

>This is Viren's curse. He is trapped in a kids cartoon show and doesn't realize it.
Best descriptor of Viren.

I just had a look at the trailer, and noticed the interesting wording "for centuries the king of the dragons himself defended the border", implying the others never got so personally.
It also implies that the kill on sight thing is actually his idea rather than what happened since the split, which either points towards relations actually getting worse over the years, or towards Thunder being a colossal cunt.

>He didn't know what it was or what it could do so saying he knew it would only benefit himself makes no sense
It's kind of implied he was hoping it would, perhaps on a more personal level than even he realized

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Not gay but that sounds pretty hot

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>I'd love it if it turned out there where less zealous Elves who secretly traded with humans across the border, maybe even supplying Dark Magic materials.
I feel like half the shit Viren has would be impossible to otherwise acquire if this wasn't true

>implying the others never got so personally.
personally involved*

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>Thunder
>Colossal
He is tiny baby

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In terms of being a cunt, he's probably got Ancalagon beat. Ancalagon was born that way, after all, rather than choosing to be one.

>Created to be a world-ending engine of destruction
>get killed in your first ever battle by some bitch half elf in a flying boat
Ancalagon ain't shit
Nobody beats Glaurung in cuntishness

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>get killed in your first ever battle by some bitch half elf in a flying boat
He was Elrond's Dad, remember. He also had an Archangel/God on his side, the eagle who fucked up Satan, and a Silmaril
>Nobody beats Glaurung in cuntishness
Yeah, it takes special talent to literally hate people to death by proxy.

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Even in death, shit-eating grin. Gotta hand it to Glaurung, being a gigantic death lizard who ruins everyone's lives simply by talking is a power move.

The problem is this show is a product from a nation that never experienced war on their own territory so all they know about war is the overinflated militar budget and the colonialistic invasions for expanding "democracy" in the middle east and Latin America. The writers also happen to be hacks so they can't imagine themselves in other people's situation

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Would you allow a family member to be killed to save a thousand random people you don't know?

I'd probably not care if some random hobo on the border got killed to save a hundred thousand equally random people I also don't know

You know, I can see it being that the elves don't make peace, they go to war anyways, Viren is in jail so human kingdoms get wrecked. Then he gets out, kills some elves.

>if the show was realistic
If the show was realistic, the humans wouldn't let dragons fly overhead and elves march mobilize their armies without a proper response.

Viren awakens ''FUCK THE BITCH'' instinct in me

That moon nexus is legally Elven territory. Those are the rules.

No, there's a reason the elves are trying so hard to make them seem like cursed lands.

Spiderman One More Day aka when Spidey sold his marriage to Mephisto aka Joe Quesada dealing with his mom's dead and his divorce.

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Depends on the family member

Details of the timeline from someone who attended the panel:
the Era of the First elves is the first recorded era 5000 years prior to the current era. Dragons and elves were not allied during this period. There were no distinct primal elves. This is an era before all of that. Humans suffered during this period.
The Rise of Elarion is the era 2000 years prior to the current era. This era marks the turning point in history for humanity. They find a way to wield magic. Humans begin building great civilizations, developing the arts, thriving and growing.
The Era of Sol Regem is the era 1200 years prior to the current era. During this era, dark magic has become an issue and creates conflict between the elves and dragons, and humans. Humans poach and kill powerful magical creatures for their parts. Sol Regem, Archdragon of the Sun, is king of the dragons during this era.
The era 1000 years prior to the current era goes by two names depending on location: In the east, it is the Era of Luna Tenebris. Luna Tenebris is Archdragon of the Moon, is Queen of the Dragons during this time. She makes the decision to spare humans, but banish them to the west on a day that would become known as Judgement of the Half-Moon. In the west, it is an era known as The Mage Wars where humans begin settling the western side of the continent. Powerful mages begin rising as warlords, battling for resources and land. This goes on until eventually the Human Kingdoms begin taking shape over the decades and centuries.
The era 300 years prior to the current era is known under three different names: First is the Era of Avizandum. Avizandum is Thunder’s real name. He is Archdragon of the Sky and King of the Dragons during this era. The second key event is The Fallen Star and we are left to speculate on that. The final key event is The Orphan Queen, referring to the first royal ancestor of Harrow and Ezran.

>the humans wouldn't let dragons fly overhead
they didn't and the show portrayed it as a bad thing. because letting an enemy combatant evidently prepared to murder dozens of civilians waltz in your territory is obviously the moral choice.

This is interesting
It should have probably been something covered in the actual show.

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Filling the mountain with mysterious monsters and beasts seems counterproductive. You'd think that would only make dark mages want to visit the place more. All those spider claws and slug goop, waiting to be harvested!

>In the west, it is an era known as The Mage Wars where humans begin settling the western side of the continent. Powerful mages begin rising as warlords, battling for resources and land.
Can we have a show about that?

They want to spread the franchise to videogames, comics, and books. Look forward to piecing the lore together from half a dozen different sources.

You gotta establish a proper foundaion to make people want to in the first place. This is a foundation. It's expansive but brief, vague with details but informs of key events. The show as presented gives us like half this

Just like my Magic: The Gathering

Interesting. So elves + dragons didn't immediately start fighting humans about dark magic, there was some specific instigating factor.

>. In the west, it is an era known as The Mage Wars where humans begin settling the western side of the continent. Powerful mages begin rising as warlords, battling for resources and land.
I guess we know why there's so few magical creatures in western Xadia. They must have exhausted their resources fighting each other.

so in other words humans did nothing wrong and we should gass the elves and kill all dragons

Suddenly shit starts making sense.

So, elves and dragons didn't immediately dogpile humans when dark magic appeared. Humans were using it for around 900 years before hostilities began. I'm guessing, based on the description of humans poaching magical beings, that this is when humans started hunting intelligent creatures for parts, since most powerful magical beasts seem to be sapient.

>Powerful mages begin rising as warlords, battling for resources and land.
I'm curious they don't specify dark mages? Where there more mages utilising primal sources that where used up back then too?

> Dragons and elves were not allied during this period. There were no distinct primal elves
>The Mage Wars where humans begin settling the western side of the continent. Powerful mages begin rising as warlords, battling for resources and land

These seem like very critical details. On the one hand I would've wanted them to mention these things off the bat to avoid all the shitflinging we've had over them, yet I see why they are withholding it from the show's narrative

>since most powerful magical beasts seem to be sapient.
We still don't know that.

It'd also disrupt this theory.
If they where sapient, why didn't the move over with the elves and dragons to avoid the Dark Mages?

>Those are the rules.
The rules according to the Elves

Because I think user means "sapient" in the same way Bait is. Technically capable of reasoning but only in the same way a particularly smart dog is.

>Agreed. It's retarded to start shit over stuff that happened over a thousand years ago, though. Everybody who was wronged - as we far as we know, people on both sides were - died a long time ago, as did everyone related to them.
it's easy to say that is you are a descendant of the winning side or some bystander
if your people were the ones wronged and the consequences still affect you especially if the other side acts superior and continues to profit from whatever happened your outlook would be different

Have we seen any really powerful magical beings outside dragons, elves, and the rock monster (which DID stay on the eastern side of the continent)?

To be honest I get the impress humans were trying to hunt shit like dragons and elves at this point.

Yes, the same reason Thunder guards the border. Their lands, so they have guards.
Elves rule the world. Remember, humans are inferior according to their thoughts. So surely Elven laws are more just.

Okay user, do you believe that it would be morally justified for a native american to kill a bunch of random white dudes because of the trail of tears? Or that modern Israel has the moral right to murder and destroy until it covers all its ancient grounds, despite nobody involved in the situation being remotely related to the displaced/displacers of during the Babylonian Exile?

I feel like you don't realize how many people would agree with both those examples

Oh yeah of course there are faggot zionists out there, but they'd be beaten flat in any argument where mossad can't intervene on their behalf.

better example would be the quarrel between Poland and Germany where Poland suffered almost irreversible losses in human potential with Germans slaughtered millions of polish citizens amongst them
majority of polish intelligentsia and devastated their country
and on top of that as a result of the war started by Germans the Poles defacto lost their independence and were reduced to being a soviet colony which came with losing their territories in the east
in this situation I can understand why Poles feel wronged and not compensated enough - especially with Germany throwing its weight around in the EU and pressuring other members to accept German policy while majority of accual nazies and war criminals went upunished some even achived hig positions in post war german state

would it be justified to just genocide all germans? of course not but some form of compensation coupled with practical acceptance of responsibility should happen
ofc still alive nazies should be at least jailed

>do you believe that it would be morally justified for a native american to kill a bunch of random white dudes because of the trail of tears?
If the there was an armed uprising from the Native Americans tomorrow, I'm not sure how many outside the US would consider it unprovoked.

They also showed a sneak peek of Season 3, a flashback scene. I can't find the video right now, but here's a summary:
>Sol Regem, the sun dragon, soaring over the open water. He lands on a mountain and meets Ziard, a dark mage. ”I smell death,” the dragon tells the human, before asking him kindly to give up on dark magic. Ziard pushes back: dark magic is what brought humans out of the age of starvation, helped them grow beyond being lesser beings.
>“YOU ARE LESSER BEINGS,” the dragon snaps.
>The dragon threatens to destroy the city of Elarium if the human doesn’t give up dark magic. He takes flight, and the human shoots a spiral of purple smoke into the sky, channeling dark magic. He drains the life of a flock of birds. The dragon wheels around to take care of this problem. They shoot twin fireballs at each other. The human appears to be vaporized. The dragon crashes into the sea.
Ziard is the dark mage seen in the intro. Also interesting is that Sol Regem flips the fuck out when Ziard tells him his staff (which is the one Viren currently owns, with some crap on top of it), was gifted to him by one of the "Great Ones".

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Overall I'm not sure whether the writers have thought through the power imbalance they've created between the Humans and the Elves & Dragons, and it's effects on the nature of the conflict.

I hope I'm wrong because it definitely raises interesting questions that pose a challenge to ideas of 'peace and pacifism' that are worth exploring, but I'm afraid they'll overlook it and treat it like a Cold War situation.

The seeming lack of thought given to the structure of Katolis's feudal system makes me nervous.

I imagine that a Dark Mage with sufficient prep time and resources would be able to balance the scales at least partially.

Bobby would have destroyed every dragon and elf if he was in charge

>destroyed every dragon and fucked every elf
fixed

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I was speaking more of a social power imbalance.
That the humans seem to have been oppressed by the Elves & Dragons up to the point of exile, and that the border was created and still is enforced on the human side by the Dragons.

Depends if said rock monster had other possibly critical functions besides merely existing.

This. It's extremely common in fantasy fiction for humans to be not just short-lived, but as a consequence of that, short-sighted.

>THE MOON IS OUT VIREN

>SOREN GET IN HERE WE'RE TELLING WAR STORIES!

>SURROUNDED BY MOON ELVES. RUNAAN? GODS WHAT A STUPID NAME

>Each of these men would gladly give their lives for you!
>CAREFUL NOW, VIREN, CAREFUL

>THE DRAGON WHORE IS PREGNANT

It could be that, or it could be that elves and dragons didn't mind the bald monkeys playing wizard until they grew so strong they started to challenge their position in the social hierarchy. Sol Regem makes it very clear that he considers humans to be lesser beings.
Sapience is a bit of a tricky subject in a show where the main character can hold coherent conversations and reason with animals, to the point he can convince a giant panther to give him a ride to the nearest town.

>Sapience is a bit of a tricky subject in a show where the main character can hold coherent conversations and reason with animals, to the point he can convince a giant panther to give him a ride to the nearest town.
I honestly wish that they'd have just gone full out with the vegan message, rather than leave this kind of inconsistency on how to treat non-human/Elf/Dragon life between Dark Magic and Hunting or Farming.

FUCK DRAGONS

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>During this era, dark magic has become an issue and creates conflict between the elves and dragons, and humans. Humans poach and kill powerful magical creatures for their parts
It might have been more interesting to have the Elves and Dragons banish the humans on the presupposition that the Humans use of Dark Magic would become a threat, as a sort of parallel to Viren's actions now.

I suppose they still could, maybe that the humans started poaching for more powerful magic to defend themselves against the Dragons and Elves cracking down preemptively.

>Dragon just harmlessly flying above town
>decides to shoot arrows at it
>Monster got royally pissed off
>The dragon burns your whole town
>Surprised face"

Have you ever thought that MAYBE the humans provoked the dragons first?

A dragon circling around your town is basically a nuke threat hanging overhead. What did the dragon want to happen?

Bobby would have drunk and whored impotently like he did for the majority of his life. He couldn't even kill all the dragonriders of his setting, who didn't have any actual dragons to back them up.

If you're going to threaten something like a dragon, you better be damn sure you are able to kill it yourself instead of making it mad.

>Sapience is a bit of a tricky subject in a show where the main character can hold coherent conversations and reason with animals, to the point he can convince a giant panther to give him a ride to the nearest town.
...This... is actually a really good point.

Sheeit, dark magic really is super fucking evil.

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Is threatening someone threatening you actually threatening?
Or is it like self defense?

It's escalation, which is the entire point of the show

Irrelevant. The point is that if you are going to attack something, you better be able to kill it outright, or deal with its retaliation if you fail.

I mean, it's a dragon.
At some point the decision to make a preemptive strike is better than just waiting for it to start killing people. You got one more shot in than you would have. And those ballistas were technically able to kill it. Maybe should have opened with the griffon eye, but Claudia had the bright idea to wait on telling him about it. It's more her fault than his, really.

She's more attractive now. No way was that an evil move. Also, people eat veal. So killing baby animals has always been a thing in society.

>enemy combatant of a nation at war armed and fully prepared to kill civilians in their enemy's territory
>OH WOW DUDE I WAS JUST PASSING BY DON'T TREAD ON ME BRO WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM
>GUESS I GOTTA MURDER ALL THESE CIVILIANS NOW YOU LEFT ME NO CHOICE
>ALSO FEEL SORRY FOR ME WHEN I'M SHOT DOWN

You keep on ignoring the point, which is if you're going to attack something like that you better be able to fucking kill it. Because if it didn't want to kill people before, it definitely will now, and others will pay for the consequence of your failure.

Technically speaking, they did bring it down and would have chopped it up for spare parts if not for Those Meddling Kids.

I'm not ignoring it, I've been trying to tell you there are only two winning scenarios.
Either the dragon fucks off, or you kill it before it can do anything. You have absolutely no guarantee that stupid lizard isn't going to just kill everyone one night, but you do have a chance to kill it first. And don't say that it was dive-bombing just to scare people and wasn't actually going to kill anyone. Humans do mock-executions all the fucking time.

Both options were stupid. You do not always have smart decision that can be made in war.

But we know all humans and elves eat meat. We also see some level of domestication going on.
Given that I'm pretty sure the rise of feudalism was reliant on the agricultural revolution beforehand, I'm going to guess that at least the humans farm livestock too.

Logically the end game of the show is for all the non-Human/Elf/Dragon species to rise up and go Animal Farm on everyone.

Harmlesely? They just sent elf assassins to murder the King.

If they wanted to just assess the situation, at least just send another stealth elf to do it.
That was just dumb.

It can also be self-defence. If the show is smart it will explore that with nuance.

I want to see Viren naked

Considering what position the humans are in, it ultimately would have been stupid to kill it even if they succeeded since then they would have three dead dragons attributed to them. The more that number increases, the greater the chances that their enemies go full extermination on them instead of being as lenient as they have been.

Harrow please, you're a bird now. That's bestiality.

If one bitch lizard was shot out of the sky by two autistic siblings, the dragon body count is a lot fucking higher than three.
There is a chapter on dragon snot in Claudia's dark magic book. They've shot down plenty.

>The more that number increases, the greater the chances that their enemies go full extermination on them instead of being as lenient as they have been
Isn't the driving question; why should they have have to live theor loves on the backfoot, in fear of an enemy that sees theor existence as an affront.

The elves literally started it tho. They were ethnically cleansing humans

>whites literally started it 500 years ago when they imported all the slaves. It should be okay for black people to gun them down and steal their women

Elves are not human so yes

I sure hope Ezran doesn't eat animals.Besides the grubs I guess, cuz grubs are obviously non-sapient I guess.

They don't have to though, they chose their own path by pursuing dark magic. I doubt most civilized people are all that sympathetic toward the savage ritual sacrifice of the aztecs, who literally believed their livelihood, and that of the world depended on it.

No, they're bigger than spiders, so I believe whole-heatedly he was wondering why his apples were screaming in pain.

>they chose their own path by pursuing dark magic.
Yet we have seen nothing indicating that Dark Magic is bad other then the name and elf whining. The elves don't have the right to tell another species what magic they can and cant use. They aren't policemen of the whole planet

There were no dragonriders when Bobby was alive retard

Now that's a deep moral question if I ever saw one. Should the victims rise against the racists? Damn user, this is deep. I'm not sure if I can support the elves after that deep question.

Neither are whites

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>Yet we have seen nothing indicating that Dark Magic is bad other then the name and elf whining.
Come on guys. Does he need to literally start drinking blood for it to be clear?

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The Neanderthal DNA does not support your argument. Humans were driven out by the Elves simply for using magic that they did not agree with. If anything it probaly backfired by forcing humanity deeper into the dark arts just to have a fighting chance

Unfortunately the writers are hacks and this is aimed to an upper class bubble. Remind me to the Lost Space Netflix reboot. There's one episode where the mom refuse to have guns on the ship despite they're threatened by space monsters because the American gun problem. Also see Supergirl, that also have a non-sensical anti-gun episode. And this is coming from a guy that believe America has a gun problem and corrupt gun lobbies using their influence

Well yeah, that would help. Claudia killing babies and/or maidens for saving her brother like an actual satanic ritual would make an impact and open a moral debate for real instead of discussing the benefits of veganism

Seriously, I would not be surprised if it turns out excess dark magic use turns you into a literal dark magic vampire that loses control of their impulses.

Has there been a constant state of low warfare between white and black nations for the past 500 years?

It being clearly coded as evil is irrelevant to the fact that its uses, effects and sources aren't demonstrably evil. If you could cure quadriplegia by sacrificing baby deer in real life you best believe nobody would give a quarter of a fuck about how cute they are.

I think the show just wants to have its cake and eat it too with dark magic. Trying to say that it's evil in the end because it consumes life and nature while regular magic works in tangent with nature.

Despite the fact that dark magic has been used to save thousands of lives and heal the crippled while nature magic has just been weaponized in basic combat and illusions.

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>If anything it probaly backfired by forcing humanity deeper into the dark arts just to have a fighting chance

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it did.

...Kind of, yeah? Half of africa has been in civil war from white states constantly proping up and removing sociopathic dictators, and america has been in a low key race war since slavery was abolished

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He did drink blood though: his own.

That was filthy star elf magic
I still believe dark magic is just a branch of star magic, which itself can channel other sources, that Aavaros taught humans

Nah man, Aavaros is just a Chad Elf who learned the other schools of magic for fun and using Star Magic can channel those schools through others like he did with Viren.
Considering Star Magic's main domain seems to be all things mental/spiritual, it makes sense it can do things such as what that soul-switching Snake did.

cough

Post Aaravos

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>We could have humans experimenting with dark magic, creating cool shit like hybrids and Eldritch abomination
>Instead we got kiddie adventures and hamfisted morals that don't even work in the context

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VDNW
discord.gg/BeRtpfG

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Why burgers are pussies? Netflix isn't restricted for the networks but they only add LGBTQIA+ and PoC quotas instead of doing something really daring.

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>>Dragon just harmlessly flying above town

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Me too!
pansy.paheal.net/_images/28c4f84236dac91972e14da7a2ce38b4/3160584 - The_Dragon_Prince Viren.png

He was pretty heavily featured in the Dragon Prince thread on /y/

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why aren't there more dark mages into agriculture? seems like the perfect way to both

1. get energy for making spells (more spells means you can also make more arable land for growing reagents and raising animals)
2. harvesting meat from both nonmagic and magical animals after they have been drained of lifeforce.

cultivate your energy reserves while also cultivating and feeding crops for the kingdom.

hedge magic is powerful stuff as well. since dark magic can mimic any of the 5 schools of magic effects, along with a few tricks exclusive to dark magic, it would seem like a very good combination.

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Why are they all so hot?

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Don't bring logic to fictional settings please

Your comments summarizes in "Look gius, he's BLACK. Of course he's evil"

This. Viren's jump from "ok I gotta man up and save the king" to "send in the kiddos to regicide those royal brats" was so jarring that my working theory was Viren had tried to force the soul switch and accidentally damaged his own mind or sucked Harrow's soul up and now they've become some kind of unstable hybrid.

>A dragon circling around your town is basically a nuke threat hanging overhead. What did the dragon want to happen?

Here's the problem with this strange species conflict.
If someone is so much stronger than you then logically you best be careful with how you approach em.

If a short fuck sees a fuckin UNIT of a man giving him the side eye in a bar he better know he can win if he decides to to start a fight.
If he can't win then he best deal with it some other way.

The opression of Humans was happening before Dark Magic

Where was that shown?

The only way to be rich is to take away from others. For every rich guy, millions suffer.

>The only way to be rich is to take away from others.
*to convince others to give you their money willingly
> For every rich guy, millions suffer.
Lol

The only reason You can live comfortable in your home and eat what you want is because on the other side of the world billions of people are treated as slaves.

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>the Era of the First elves is the first recorded era 5000 years prior to the current era. Dragons and elves were not allied during this period. There were no distinct primal elves. This is an era before all of that. Humans suffered during this period.
>He is stronger, older and wiser than any other magical being in Xadia. Nonetheless he is a friend for all humans. Where others look down on us, calls us inferior, he sees great potential in us. When we accept the offerings/gifts Aaravos has promised us, they will pay for their conceitedness/condescension, they will be forced to see us as equals. When we are equals, we will take our destiny/fate in our own hands and build our future. I see it before me (in my dreams).
>You ARE lesser beings
What more do ya want?

Both forms of magic can do the same things, user. Dark magic is just cheating to a faster result by paying a heavier price.

>It can also be self-defense
There is no legal basis for attacking first being self-defense. There's a reason we don't consider it self-defense when one guy gets mad and shoots a dude for being vaguely hostile.

it was a warning shot

When did legality come into it?
Heck we do consider it self-defence if one group reacts with violence to defend themselves from a hostile force mobilising against them.

Yes there's a grey are of when that reaction is appropriate, needed or even helpful and that's what some good writing will explore.

Recall that Viren and Claudia had a baby locked in their basement to use as blood sacrifice. And when that dragon got downed, Claudia was gleeful as fuck about using its parts as magical reagents.

>b-b-b-but it was the enemy
There's a reason we don't skin our enemies for leather or grind them down for soap.

"People" who defend the elves and dragons are scum.

>Recall that Viren and Claudia had a baby locked in their basement to use as blood sacrifice.
There's never a given reason why Viren was keeping the egg.
Chances are it'll be a plot point later.

>There's a reason we don't skin our enemies for leather or grind them down for soap.
I mean we have on and off for a decent amount of human history.

>When did legality come into it?
You're aware that wars have rules, yeah?

>Heck we do consider it self-defence if one group reacts with violence to defend themselves from a hostile force mobilising against them.
No. But the dragon wasn't mobilizing offensively against them. The irony of this argument is that it was Katolis mobilizing for war at the time, the dragon was just checking what the fuck was going on.

>There's never a given reason why Viren was keeping the egg.
He uses magical beings to generate magic, and he and his daughter clearly don't care whether they're intelligent or not. Claudia referred to the egg as a weapon, so it's pretty clear how they were going to use it.

>I mean we have on and off for a decent amount of human history.
Human history is full of bad ideas.

The plan to give back the egg as an offering isn't a bad one.
Though one done better from the position of the King and his government, as well as plenty of backup plans if things go wrong.

Everyone else however, is stupidly passive.

Then why hasn't he used it by now
>Claudia referred to the egg as a weapon, so it's pretty clear how they were going to use it.
Not really.

Just narratively, it's the McGuffin and instignator so there's probably going to be a bigger story behind it.
Having it just be yet another Dwrk Magic source would be pretty boring.

>Human history is full of bad ideas.
Like ruling monarchs but apparently they're good here.

*instigator of the plot

It was false diving the same town for three days. If it was investigating that was completely unnecessary. It was clearly trying to provoke them, but we don't know why. Maybe there's some political scheming in Xadia to validate a true invasion. If that is the case, then a violent response plays right into their hand.

I think they're trying to show us something fishy is happening but for some reason Everytime we talk about this conversation degenerates into "dragons dindu nuffin!" and "extreme violence is a valid response to threatening behavior!"

>Then why hasn't he used it by now
Before it was stolen from him, he hadn't even convinced Harrow into going to war. Viren was probably keeping it for a vert special use of dark magic, but still a use of dark magic.

The show hasn't made any political statement one way or another in regards to this.

>but Viren is portrayed as bad and he's not a king!
Viren is trying pretty hard to become king and establish his own dynastic regime. He didn't tell Soren "son, one day you could be an elected official in a democratic system", he told him he could be KING. Viren isn't sticking it to the man, he is the man, he's part of that system.

Obligatory I want to make Viren moan like a bitch in heat post

That’s actually wrong. In the Uk for example, you can attack in self defence if you have fear of immediate danger to yourself and others. It doesn’t even have to be reasonable, just believable to the person doing the defending.
If your fear was of GBH or murder, you can reasonably respond with deadly force. A dragon performing repeated dive bombs counts as a reasonable fear.

However, that ignores the fact that every military in the world would find it to be reasonable to fire a warning shot to a trespassing gunship.

Aaravos, please control yourself.

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>The show hasn't made any political statement one way or another in regards to this.
The show has consistently framed Harrow as a "Good King" and evades criticising it as a system in itself, rather saying that by trying to be fair, Harrow's rule can be just.
There's even interviews where Aaron about the promise of Ezran's rule.

Viren is evil. No shit. That doesn't make everyone else good.

Why wouldn't he use it to save/defend Harrow from the assassination?
When it came down to it he was willing to die in Harrow's place which would disrupt whatever plan he had, so it can't have been his top priority.
Why not use it then?

Why burgers have such a boner for monarchy? Not even nips are like this and they literally have a god emperor

The war exists at the moment only in Viren's mind, because no one has seen an elf army march past the frontier. Also, Viren tried to convince her by telling her the bedtime story of how her mothers and previous monarchs of her own kingdom died, as if she did not know it.
Rejecting his proposal was entirely sane.

>The show has consistently framed Harrow as a "Good King" and evades criticising it as a system in itself
Have you considered that the show simply isn't about the pros and cons of monarchy? This would only really be a valid point to bring up if there were a character trying to abolish monarchy, but there isn't.

>Why wouldn't he use it to save/defend Harrow from the assassination?
I get the impression that Thunder's kid used to power dark magic wouldn't necessarily be able to provide what he'd need. We know that the type of creature influences what kind of effect you can produce from it. Viren didn't need to drop an atomic thunderstorm on something, he needed some clever way of getting Harrow out of harms' way.

I want to force Viren to top!

>t. Viren's unnamed presumably deceased wife

My dude, everyone agrees that a war is coming. Literally the first episode started with Callum asking King Harrow why he can't just call off the war.

At that point the war was theoretically limited to one side assassinating a leader in retaliation for their leader being assassinated. Harrow dying and Ezran calling off hostilities/giving back the egg could probably have stopped things from going further.

That said, this was never possible simply because Viren would reeeee hard at the idea of giving up his eggbattery.

That scene was before anyone even knew about the moonshadow elves. Even before Harrow knew the elves wanted retaliation he knew it was naive to think a chat and a return of the egg could stop everything.

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again, the egg, and by extent the dragon, was just a justification for a war fueled by pre-existing hatred. The elves would've been just fine going to war just over the death of the king.

He's a man out to save humanity at all costs, the show really needs to stomp it's foot down on if black magic is a world ending threat or not.

The elves are not actively pursuing a war as far as we've seen. The assassins are a black ops team sent presumably by the dragon queen. The elven nations so far in the story have shown no involvement.

>the show really needs to stomp it's foot down on if black magic is a world ending threat or not.
I would prefer they don't desu. I like that it's more open to interpretation from the viewer.

The elves are amassing forces at the breach, are scouting lands with the dragons, attacking bases they previously didn't care about, it's pretty obvious the war is coming, and the characters agree in universe.

Actual, that's not entirely true now that I think about it. There was a skirmish with sun elves in the border. But it's par for the course when you've got a border and people either side think should not be there. There's still no invasion.

Nothing suggests the dragons are in league with the elves, and could have their own interests.

>Nothing suggests the dragons are in league with the elves

Except for like, the entire show.

You mean except the elven assassins sent by the dragon queen?

>Enemy bomber flys around city daily with no contact
>Refuses to tell anyone what it's doing there
>Gets shot down
>Bomber pilot

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>Even before Harrow knew the elves wanted retaliation
Turns out he was wrong, it seems, about presuming that meant outright war. If the elves wanted to start a war, they'd have done that rather than sending the death squad.

Every magic user we've seen has eventually become mutated by the magic, why should dark magic be any different.

Assassins are not soldiers, idiot. If they were sent by an elven kingdom they'd report to the elven king not the dragon queen. How hard is that to understand.
Mercenaries are a thing that exists.

>The elves would've been just fine going to war just over the death of the king.
We haven't seen any indication of this.

I mean, they wouldn't be really all that villainous for doing this, seeing as striking back against an attack is hardly a wrongdoing. The fact that the elves decided to just level the scales by killing Harrow and his son rather than just outright declaring war is to be honest far better than what most IRL nations would do.

>Turns out he was wrong, it seems, about presuming that meant outright war. If the elves wanted to start a war, they'd have done that rather than sending the death squad.
No, they would've sent the death squad to decapitate their chain of command, then go to war afterwards.
>We haven't seen any indication of this.
It's basic sense. The elves hated humanity before even the existence of dark magic.

This would be a decent point if not for the fact that Black Magic can use already dead creatures as a (less potent) source.

Yeah, dumbfuck, you keep repeating that. And the dragon got a goddamn ballista bolt in his gut, didn't he? And he was about to get chopped up and used as reagents, wasn't he?

So maybe that motherfucking dragon should have known if he could win the fight before starting one, shouldn't he?

I don't see whats wrong with that

Dragon clearly was smug about pathethic humans not being able to harm him, and considering WHY it hit, it wasn't wrong.

He was chained to the ground and about half a step from being spell fuel, so yeah, I'd say he was pretty wrong.

The user Is quoting a translation from a book shown on screen.

Yeah but then we just end up with X more seasons of fighting over who the hero is

>Have you considered that the show simply isn't about the pros and cons of monarchy?
But it is about violence and the nature of power is inseparable from conversations on violence.

Also they bought it up with the kneeling scene and again in Harrow's acknowledgement of his status. If they didn't want people thinking they shouldn't have asked.

I'm fine with being unsure of who is right in the story. Give me nuance.

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>No, they would've sent the death squad to decapitate their chain of command, then go to war afterwards.
This is not how war, let alone medieval war, works.

>unironically agreeing with the peasants from monty python.

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>This is not how war, let alone medieval war, works.
It is when you have soldiers who can turn invisible.

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>The elves hated humanity before even the existence of dark magic.
We don't know this. We know that life was hard for humans as they didn't have the resources or magic they have now, that's it.

We know the elves didn't help and we know the elves reacted violently to humans bettering themselves.

>But it is about violence and the nature of power is inseparable from conversations on violence.
Correct. But the show is not providing a theater for a pro or anti monarchist debate. Viren may have killed a king, but he didn't do so to break down the concept of monarchy. Characters don't have to consider things like democracy in order to be engaged in a debate about the cyclical nature of violence.

>Also they bought it up with the kneeling scene and again in Harrow's acknowledgement of his status.
You realize Harrow was supposed to be in the wrong in that scene, right? Viren is obviously not presented as morally clean here, or justified in the actions he took, but Harrow wasn't acting reasonably either. He was tired, upset, and weary of dealing with his friend's mistakes, and he snapped. The scene was supposed to be somewhat tragic.

Sending ninjas to murder your king IS an act of war you elf loving fag

>We know the elves didn't help
How often do you help starving Africans, user? Or Vietnamese women being preyed on by Chinese traffickers? Or any number of the people suffering in the world?

>and we know the elves reacted violently to humans bettering themselves
No, we don't. It has been confirmed now that elves and dragons let humans be for roughly 900 years after they started using dark magic. Things got violent after a specific inciting incident involving humans crossing some kind of line regarding the kind of beings they were poaching for parts. We don't know the specifics, but considering that the generalities are that humans started hunting down "certain very powerful magical beings" and so far the most powerful magical beings have been intelligent, we can probably infer what happened there.

I personally don't do shit but the government I pay taxes to gives billions of dollars away in foreign aid every year as well as supports numerous NGOs and other charities.

It's a very measured response considering it was after humans had murdered the dragon king and, as far as anyone knew, his son. Most real life nations would go straight to total war after that. The elves appeared content to just take a life for a life.

The government you pay taxes to also actively enforces economic inequality, using charities as a means of creating dependence rather than doing anything meaningful. Our IRL governments aren't just uncaring, they are actively destructive to the interests of suffering people, because giving them a real hand up = less profit.

Whatever you say /pol/.

God what a fucking Race traitor. The Elves fucking tried to Genocide humanity.

>wants to demand that his cartoon has proper politics in it
>spergs out when people use IRL examples of why he's dumb

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Nice strawman.

There was a literal dragon who called humanity lesser beings and tried to Nuke an entire city

Elves moved humanity over three thousand years ago. Nobody remotely involved in that conflict is still alive. This is Israelis whining about being turfed out of Israel & Judah during the Babylonian Exile and using it as a justification for violent expansionism and genocide.

Elves were wrong to do what they did, but it happened a long ass time ago, and if the recent reveals really do imply what they seem to be implying, it's understandable that they would have seen humanity as a race of evil vampires that need to be removed.

Do we know how long elves or dragons live?

Sorry, but there's no strawman to be found here.

You feel as though the show is not portrayal political discussion in a way that is to your liking, and are complaining about it. Examples from real life make you look like a fool, and now you're getting increasingly assluminous.

Not long enough. Thunder has only been around for 300 years, for example.

What are the chances of him being the actual villain of the show? So far we know he hates humanity, and is not only the first recorded dragon king, but also the one with the shortest reign while still being alive to be bitter about it.

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>You feel as though the show is not portrayal political discussion in a way that is to your liking, and are complaining about it
Source? Please link me to these supposed posts of mine.

And calling someone who starts sperging about shadowy government conspiracies to destabilze the rest of the world /pol/ is fairly reasonable.

>Nobody remotely involved in that conflict is still alive.
Sol Regem and Aaravos are still around, and they seem to have played direct roles

>t.elf lover
The Elves and dragons have no right to dictate to humanity what magic they can and cant use

And according to the staff, this happened 900 years after humans started using dark magic, after some kind of change in the kind of targets they were poaching for it impelled the elves/dragons to act.

I'm sure that sun dragon guy was a cunt but the narrative that elves/dragons just dogpiled humanity immediately had been proven incorrect.

>Dragon attacks people when they went to their territory
>Dragon flies over a random town for multiple days for no reason.

How old are you, stupid fucking child?

>Source? Please link me to these supposed posts of mine.
...This entire discussion is based on this. You are arguing based on the idea that the show has a bias in its portrayal of political issues and the human side is being unfairly maligned.

>And calling someone who starts sperging about shadowy government conspiracies
lel, economic consolidation of power isn't a shadowy conspiracy, it's open as fuck. It's even part of the IMF's stated goals.

I think it's gonna be
Viren - human side antagonist
Sol Regem - xadia side antagonist
Aaravos - actual BBEG out to doom both sides

Well yeah, Soren's decision was stupid in pragmatic terms but it was 100% justified morally. That dragon had a death wish.

>humanity harvests magical creatures
>let's try to wipe out an entire city, including all non combatants
Have you not heard of proportional response ?
Its a fucking race war user. Anybody who doesn't side with Humanity is a cuck

So you can't actually link to these posts and admit you just constructed a shitty strawman? Good talk.

>But the dragon wasn't mobilizing offensively against them.

How fucking stupid could you possibly be?

That's a brazen lie. He harassed the city and then made an ultimatum threatening Genocide
Dragons should be fucking wiped out and the Elves reduced to cumsocks

Interesting that he's been deposed. Maybe Thunder was kind of the Harrow equivalent, the moderate king that the people loved?

You have literally been talking about nothing but how the show is handling politics for the last several hours, stop being so obtuse.

>both moderate kings were killed and now the warmongers are in charge on both sides

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And the current era will be known to future generations as "The Return of Aaravos", so that sparkly motherfucker is gonna get away with whatever bullshit keikaku he pulls.

The new information seems to indicate that humanity was starting to escalate their use of dark magic to the more powerful magical creatures, which are intelligent.

If you suddenly found out that your neighbor had shifted from hunting deer to humans, you'd be pretty fucking willing to kill them.

You appear to have made the classic newfag mistake of thinking that every user is the same person. The very first post I made ITT was about my taxes going to foreign aid.

Do try again after you've lurked a bit more.

The trailer made it sound like he was just being a twat too and attacking people who had nothing to do with it and he knew it.
>You see that city over there?'
>'That's hundreds of thousands of people including women and children!'
>Flies towards it.
He was just killing indiscriminately because dark mage wouldn't give up magic.

My species right or wrong you elf cuck. Show some fucking backbone

user, humanity is not a person; in the context of this show it is a race/species with its own set of culture(s).

I've been calling for the mass genocide then quarantining of the middle-east thanks to most of their cultures being backwards, underdeveloped, and dangers; yet I'm considered extremist. Are you siding somehow siding with the elves and me on this? Because I'm not with the elves, each case is subjective and not everyone or every culture is worth saving.

...Then you chimed in to take a side in the discussion of how politics is being handled in this cartoon. So you are still quite wrong to be making a fuss about this.

Do try again after you've grown a brain.

>Sheeit, dark magic really is super fucking evil.
Not any more evil than eating live worms, or electrocuting a shoal of fish. Did the grubs have family, Lujanne?

Him, yeah, not his whole fucking family while he was out for groceries.
The dragon called him out under the promise that he would come to no harm, and just to fuck with him (and make him understand he doesn't give a single fuck about his whole species), he goes "yeah, you should have made me promise not to kill everyone but you, too," and takes off.

If the problem is dark magic, kill the dark magicians. It seems to me that dragons just get off on fucking with people until they do something about it, and then burn a city down in "retaliation".
It's like Bill Hicks, and his "pick up the gun" joke. Throw a gun at a guy's feet, tell him to pick it up, shoot him, and then turn around and proudly announce: "You all saw it. He had a gun."

Pointing out that governments have a role in aid more than individuals making your comparison to starving Africans fallacious is not exactly taking a side. Since then you've just been tarding out.

Anyway last reply to you because bullying mental deficients like yourself gets tiring after a while. Do try and calm down and remember to take your schizo meds.

>Are you siding somehow siding with the elves and me on this?
I'm saying you're both making a stupid kneejerk reaction but are at leas understandable, the elves moreso since vampires are scarier than muslims, and for the most part the economic conditions that have created the problems in the middle east were generated by foreign intervention during the cold war.

Also 3000 years later nobody should be using the actions of retards like you to start a new war.

...And your idea that governments actually help other nations out has been shot down. Have fun running off with your tail between your legs.

>If the problem is dark magic, kill the dark magicians.
What if the kingdom practicing it is built on its usage and will defend its practitioners?

Interesting how he keeps on appearing in the promotional material.

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Then it's war.
But burning the army isn't the same as turning a street into an active forge.

Dragons have no right to dictate what magic is acceptable. Let him come and get killed like the bitch he was

They have, when they have both significantly greater knowledge and experience over the revelant subject, and the actuel power to enforce their will.

>they have
imagine espousing racial supremacy and an endless mandate over others.
Do you speak German?
I wasnt aware we as a species handed all magic rules over to dragons

>Dragons should be fucking wiped out and the Elves reduced to cumsocks

>in the time before primal elves, Man and Elf had no animosity towards one another
>in fact, they quite often shared their bodies with one another
>a passing human could stop in any elf village and dick down as much tight sylvan pussy as he wanted
>likewise, an elf on the hunt was welcomed with open arms by human women he may stumble upon in the brush
>and then one day the dragons came along and convinced elfkind that miscegenation was a mortal sin
>after that time, there was no longer a free sex buffet anywhere in all of Xadia

That is why Aaravos plots and schemes. He cares not for power, nor does he serve evil forces. He desires only human women and their big, fat, sugary-sweet asses, and he will bring down every dragon, elf, or human that stands in his way. He will ensure, for all of us, that every hearth has a tight elf pussy resting comfortably before it.

Truly, Aaravos is the hero we deserve.

Dragons and elves are just salty that humans got their hands on magic that can threaten them that's all.

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>I don't have to explain shit
>that's just the way it is
>don't like it and I'll commit mass genocide
Yeah they sure are wise.

What's that proverb? A smith who has spent 5 years mastering the trade is worth more than a smith who has spent 40 mastering nothing.

They didn't dictate that dark magic was bad, they let humans keep practicing it for 900 years. They only intervened when humans started using morally questionable targets for reagent extraction.

War has never spared civilians. I don't like it either, but it's true.

I mean, I'm willing to bet that you'd claim bombing Dresden was fine as an act of war, right?

>They only intervened when humans started using morally questionable targets for reagent extraction.
"Morally questionable"
To the fucking Dragons and Elves

No.

Dresden was a war crime that went unpunished

Interesting. How do you feel about Hiroshima & Nagasaki?

Why don't they share their knowledge and demonstrate their research instead of expecting everyone to blindly believe what they say

If the targets are intelligent, it should be questionable to everyone. I mean, for one thing, we know now that humans can access primal sources, which means that if you start targeting intelligent beings, humans are technically not off limits either. Which is pretty scary.

Not the same thing.
If you want to make a comparison, it would be firebombing Tokyo.

Not that guy, but the atomic bombings get overdemonized thanks to people forgetting what WW2 was, so many decades of people living under The Cold War that they can't view the bombings as anything other than pure evil, and America having reaped enough benefits from it for Japan to play the victim card.

Ah, as I suspected, a hypocrite of the highest order. Dresden was as much a military target as Hiroshima or Nagaski, housing massive military infrastructure and wartime production facilities. It was more of a military target, even.

>we know now that humans can access primal sources

We know that *A* human can access primal sources. It's entirely possible that Callum is unique in this capacity.

I suppose that's technically the case, unlikely as I find it. Though, the deer also indicate that a creature doesn't have to be particularly magical to be used to power dark magic.

I wish they'd just made dark magic like dhar, wild and dangerous and fundamentally damaging to mankind, rather than leaving room for people to argue that maybe it wasn't being used for bad things when the elves took issue with it. That would have cut in half these retarded discussions.

>He desires only human women
Lies. It's common knowledge that all elf men like cock.

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thought this was Callum and Rayla from the thunbnail

It's already inherently flawed in that it needs living beings to power it, that can apparently escalate to possibly any living being including dragons or even humans. And we all know sooner or later someone, or some people are going to have no impulse control and start using shit up faster than it can be replaced or start going for things they shouldn't just because they can. They are bound to create a Mao situation where they have nothing left and its all their fault, but they won't learn from it and instead go and sacrifice other things to keep their excess hedonistic ways going.

>ban everything that can be abused
Hello liberal.

Would you give a gun to a toddler? Or nukes to a bunch of savages?

Not the same argument. Would you ban guns or nuclear technology?

Did he say it should be banned?

It seems like elves and dragons didn't ban it, it was around for nine centuries after all. They just brought the hammer down when it was misused.

>didn't ban it, only brought the hammer down
>give it up or i'll kill hundreds of thousands not related to the issue
As much fun as Bad Dragon toys are, you should take them out of your mouth from time to time.

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>dragons leave humans to use their dark magic for 900 years
>somewhere in that period, humans do something, or multiple things to warrant that level of response
>but the humans din du nothing

>it's okay they didn't genocide us for 900 years prior

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Yes, because if they were fine with it for 900 years and suddenly weren't, either their leader specifically wanted to suddenly get rid of humans (which should not have necessarily carried over to two future rulers that replaced him) or humans monumentally fucked up to such an extent that they deserved it to some degree.

You really are hellbent on being a scalie aren't you? You've never seen people put up with something they don't like and snap when shit changes?
>humans monumentally fucked up to such an extent that they deserved it
Again, these motherfuckers will genocide at the drop of a hat. We've been shown elves and dragons are both racist shits. One of the books that was written about Aravos (before it melted) talked about how the other races treated humans horribly.

The problem is some people, and probably even the writers, give the expulsion from the west religious connotations, as the expulsion of Eden. Reminder that the writers come from Christian households and even if they're most probably fedora atheists now, they still have very puritan perspectives. As supernatural creatures, the elves and dragons would be like angels punishing mankind. The problem is other fans see the sociopolitical connotations, with the elves and dragons as entitled elites treating the lower classes as shit and arguing that they kill them for their own good because the poor masses need to be guided for the 1%.

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Redpill me on why we needed to bomb them twice

They've equated it more to the Trail of Tears in interviews

If the dragons are supposed to be so powerful and dangerous, why is it that every single one we see is getting their ass kicked by usually one or just a handful of humans? Shouldn't humans with their sheer numbers have already beaten them?

Because we only had 3.

Nagasaki wasn't the original target by the way, it was a backup being an important port city. Kokura was the original, having a large stockpile of munitions, military vehicles, naval cannons, etc. The visibility was shit and they bomber had been reported so they poured black tar into the steel mill producing huge amounts of smoke and Kokura was abandoned as the primary target.

>Characters don't have to consider things like democracy in order to be engaged in a debate about the cyclical nature of violence.
If they want to be through and consistent, yeah they do.
The protagonists are monarchs, as heads of state they will wield power and therefore violence.

>You realize Harrow was supposed to be in the wrong in that scene, right?
Exactly, the show bought up the idea that there is an inherent issue with the heroes status and position from which they will be acting.
It's disappointing acting to then evade the issue because it complicates the shows main theme.

I think your arguing with multiple different anons user

That'd be boring as fuck.

That sounds like an interesting concept to me, could make an interesting comedy. >magically can't swear at random times.
>people around me are idiots.
>What's with the jokes at inappropriate times?

The text indicates that the use of Dark Magic grew over the 900 years, and the writing indicates ot was not just Dark Magic.
It might just have taken that time for the humans to grow powerful enough to make the Elves and Dragons nervous, ESPECIALLY if their established world view was that humans where "lesser beings".

Notably
>Humans poach and kill powerful magical creatures for their parts
doesn't happen untill well into Sol Regem's reign, so it may very well have been a reaction to the Dragons cracking down (which in turn would be a reflection of the pre-emptive actions that Viren proposes and circle of violence and all that.)

>If the dragons are supposed to be so powerful and dangerous, why is it that every single one we see is getting their ass kicked by usually one or just a handful of humans? Shouldn't humans with their sheer numbers have already beaten them?
Why do you think they where so afraid of humans in the first place user?

I hear the opposite "why do burgers hate monarchy so much?" Make up your minds people.

Burger tend to distrust government of any kind, yet like at least the idea of monarchy. It plays into a power fantasy and cultural emphasis on the power of exceptional individuals. This is also why more collectivist ideologies are met with contention

I haven't seen many Americans supporting monarchy though, so it sounds like you are making shit up.

Like I have to seek them out by using the internet, /pol isn't a very good place to look for mainstream politics, seems to me that you see so many monarchist in /pol is because monarchisum so unpopular. Like I'm Canadian and I heard Americans foaming at the mouth at the queen being on our coins, that sure doesn't look like worship of exceptional individuals to me.

>why aren't there more dark mages into agriculture? seems like the perfect way to both
>1. get energy for making spells (more spells means you can also make more arable land for growing reagents and raising animals)
>2. harvesting meat from both nonmagic and magical animals after they have been drained of lifeforce.
>cultivate your energy reserves while also cultivating and feeding crops for the kingdom.
>hedge magic is powerful stuff as well. since dark magic can mimic any of the 5 schools of magic effects, along with a few tricks exclusive to dark magic, it would seem like a very good combination.
big true

>You're aware that wars have rules, yeah?
kek
have a (You) retard

>I suppose that's technically the case, unlikely as I find it.

We should also keep in mind that Ezran also displays a unique magical skill: the ability to talk to animals. Might possibly be something to do with being descendants of the Orphan Queen.

But they treat it more like the expulsion of Paradise. You know Adam and Eve ate the apple so all mankind is doomed forever. Besides, the writers may not be even aware of the Christian overtones

>Except Viren.
The guy who forged the kings seal knowing that would eventually fuck him over, and then ragequit the rulers council after a few hours with a powerpoint presentation and a flashback failed to instantly convince them to go full on WOO, WHO'S READY FOR TOTAL WAR MOTHERFUCKERS!?

That guy?

>Everyone else however, is stupidly passive.
Keep in mind that as far as we can tell, about 3 weeks max have passed since the beginning, 1 during the first season and 2 during the second, though admittedly that's a bit fuzzy.

Huh, I didn't think of that before but yeah if Ez talks to animals he must have rationalized their mass cultivation and slaughter pretty well by now. What if that makes Ez the perfect candidate for learning dark magic? He's proven to have a fondness and respect for all living creatures while also developing a sense of duty and practicality in season 2. I want a dark lord ezran.

I actually counted, and it's two weeks.
We know this because if you pay close attention to the phases of the moon (which is almost certainly intentional), the show starts with a full moon and ends on a coming new moon.

>s smart as writes an
Sloppy worldbuilding is not the same thing as nuance.
>let's be unclear about the stakes of this conflict, that will make viewers interested!

Was it a request of total war? I thought he just wanted a defensive alliance

Wealth is created when societies get their act together and incentivize productivity, stability, and long-term investment. Consider that the Amish have much greater wealth than the Sentinelese. Third-word sweatshop workers have much more wealth than the Sentinelese. That's generally why they became sweatshop workers instead of subsistence farmers like their ancestors.

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They already have a defensive alliance. What he wanted was an activation of that alliance.

Ah, understood

You think the assassination of a monarch would be good enough to share said alliance. That being said, NATO hasn't ever been activated so who knows

>NATO hasn't ever been activated.
It has been. Once.

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I didn't think NATO was technically activated. Just that most of the people we brought in happened to be in NATO

nytimes.com/2001/09/13/us/after-attacks-alliance-for-first-time-nato-invokes-joint-defense-pact-with-us.html

Well shit

it makes too much sense to put into a contrived plot like this that requires humans be retards with no knowledge of how to protect/offset crop chills or famine