Where do you personally draw the line between homage, reference, and stealing?

Where do you personally draw the line between homage, reference, and stealing?

Attached: 1526705551167.gif (700x720, 1.54M)

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=zUFujWurpkE
denofgeek.com/us/tv/steven-universe/266591/steven-universe-was-influenced-by-revolutionary-girl-utena
youtube.com/watch?v=Cv4FgBc1wJo
jojo.fandom.com/wiki/Diesel
m.youtube.com/watch?v=d_553Qdxgws
youtube.com/watch?v=pB3gc6Uc7y0
youtube.com/watch?v=Px9FvddtgpM
youtube.com/watch?v=j-HPhUy5Awk
youtube.com/watch?v=SF6qfUKPj4Q
youtube.com/watch?v=eBKaURMSy7Y
youtube.com/watch?v=zr-qEDbL9kU
youtube.com/watch?v=yfoZRgoaIDk
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraman_(comics)
artsammich.blogspot.com/2011/05/art-of-heist.html
youtube.com/watch?v=cCHTRyDs4RU
copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html
newmediarights.org/business_models/artist/why_does_united_states_have_copyright_laws
newmediarights.org/business_models/artist/what_copyright_law_who_created_it_and_why_do_people_think_we_need_it
thebalancecareers.com/what-is-copyright-and-why-is-it-important-to-authors-2800060
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

homage is when it's copied but it looks like shit in comparison so you go "aww that's cute"

>something I like plagiarizes something else
Homage.
>something I dislike plagiarizes something else
Plagiarism.

>Homage
When something is put in for fans but it isn't egregiously ripped off.
>reference
"Holy crap Lois it's freakin' He-Man!"
>stealing
Diesel.

homage is when you make it clear, and above all it has no real relevance in your story. Stealing is when you are using something but you are trying to hide it. In the case of animated sequences, combat or pic related (far too iconic) the question is a bit more delicate.
Because even if you're doing an homage, you're still exploiting someone else's directorial scene to enhance your work.

Attached: 26a.gif (500x1566, 2.69M)

When it's a one off it's fine, but if your "homages" keep popping up it's just because you can't choreograph

I.E. Every reference in Steven Universe
>OP's example
Just Pearl swordfighting.
>That one person who Lapis's design obviously came from
Not the same character, not the same motivations
>Lars' as a space Captain Harlock
Looks like him, not actually like him
>End of Evangalion reference with pizza slices
Just nice imagery.

And so on.

>homage is when you make it clear, and above all it has no real relevance in your story
What about stuff like Django Unchained which started out as an idea to pay homage to Spaghetti Westerns?

Tarantino is probably a borderline case. He takes inspiration from a certain type of cinema, and then tries to reelaborate these thing with a completely different story. It seems to me that he has always been a bit at the center of the controversy, deliberately.

homage is when anime and manga does it. stealing is when westerners do it.

Attached: 1562132041200.png (737x527, 714K)

At least Mangaka do it well. Westerners always make a really half-assed shitty obvious copy each and every time. The western one is always the poorly drawn crappier done version.

every.time.

If it's a show I like or not.

99% of the time it's the other way around. Japan is constantly put on blast for even the tiniest suspicion of unoriginality, meanwhile endless excuses and denials are issued when talking about Lion King and Matrix.

You know you can steal desings right

Artist?

>Raphael putting his foot on the pavement
Fuckin' A

Attached: serveimage.jpg (227x222, 9K)

The difference between theft and inspiration is a fine line at the best of times. If it was actual theft, the copyright holder would've had Rebecca's ass on a silver platter. They've had long enough.

Homage is admitting to it.

Gerard Way looks oddly androgynous.

Not the good kind of weeabo androgynous, though, in which the girls look like girls and the boys look like prettier girls

Steven Universe's and OK KOs "homages" are some of the sneakiest shit I've ever seen. Like the shots are almost verbatim and it just feels like stealing.

You've obviously never watched anime then.

What does his post have to do with anime?

No I don't and I don't plan on it because that shit looks all the same to me. Even more samey than calarts shit over here.

When it's a 1to1 overlap, or they don't even want it to be a reference and just simply used it because they thought they could sneak some lazy copied idea by.

So for example OP's pic isn't a 1to1 overlap, and also they have done several anime references before in the show so it all points to homage/reference.

Attached: 187471-plagiarism_super.png (600x475, 488K)

Cameos are an odd little subsection of the discussion because they're just ways to play where's waldo with otherwise necessary but meaningless crowds. You can't have a street be dead but feel natural unless the scene calls for it but just drawing generic dudes can get boring, so slapping on recognizable characters who have no point is a fun but pointless endeavor. However you still have to acknowledge you're using popular character to make your boring work less boring because of inability to make substantial background characters on your own.

This is just a myth. Anime has a lot of variety in its visuals.

That is obvious to anyone who is paying attention.
Is that some sort of Korean webcomic or something? Because that shit is straight up blatant.

It was made by Gene Simmons' son IIRC.

At least I have to give him credit for pulling off a convincingly Japanese style I guess as shit as it is.
Most attempts at that end up looking like Marvel Mangaverse.

That's a failed comic by Gene Simmons' son. It's called Incarnate.

And it also has a lot of samey shit too. There is just so much anime you will get a lot that looks original and a lot that just copies whats popular.

Homage openly confesses to taking "inspiration" while also building off the material you took from. If you're just copying or shouting out references then you're a hack, like OP image.

God DAMNIT, I love the fucking Ninja Turtles.

Attached: download_20190510_225151.jpg (4032x3024, 3.17M)

SU and Utena are more closely linked than you realize user. Rebecca isn't some anime casual who saw this scene and decided to copy it because "WOW, SO COOL").

>you are a lesser artist if you throw a cute cameo into your work
Damn you sound insufferable.

Attached: 1536260607214.png (303x400, 112K)

It's not really that something popular is being copied, it's just that not everything ends up looking highly distinctive. The same applies to live action and video games. Not everything has a unique visual style.

VLD ripping off pic related here was pretty shameless

Attached: Lance.png (1000x1577, 201K)

youtube.com/watch?v=zUFujWurpkE

I dunno but one it affects the story like the hand in space thing it's just fucking retarded.

Both VLD and Sym Bionic titan took influence from Mazinger Z.

I really doubt she was on the Utena production committee

Attached: South Park FLCL.png (960x720, 428K)

Probabably Imaishi although I could be wrong.

split second animation references only 0.0001% of the people watching will get is fine
stealing major plot beats and extended fight sequencing is bad

this isn't exactly a new debate.

Attached: NejiVsNaruto.gif (256x288, 1.74M)

>Utena background actually changes in depth perspective
>SU instead goes for conveyor belt

FUCK SU

>it's not theft if they don't recognize it!
imagine being such an incompetent piece of shit holy shit

What does that have to do with anything I said.

Because unless she worked on the damn show then whatever CONNECTION she has to it is tenuous at best.

context for anons that don't know what Diesel is

Attached: diesel.jpg (984x1542, 398K)

that's not what I said
and learn what incompetent means

You don't know the actual plot of SU do you. Go look it up, then look up Utena's.

The shows having similar plots doesn't mean it's okay to straight lift animated segments from it. That's what makes her a hack and what makes this reference shallow.

kek, was this the comic that ripped off jojo before anyone knew what the fuck jojo was?

How is it shallow when's she's a huge fan? That doesn't make any sense. Pearl swordfighting like that has no effect on the plot. This is a nitpick at best.

Muh! = homage
Not muh! = stealing

I wouldn't call Steven Universe stealing, but I would say all of its homages come off as disingenious and have some kind of "lol, we included this iconic scene. Can you see how cool we are yet?"

Rebecca grew up with those shows and wanted to pay tribute/reference them in her first show. That's the opposite of disingenuous.

yes, I think the only Jojo-related media the west had access to was the ps1 game

BEING A FAN doesn't excuse plagiarism, she's not building on the material, she's literally just copying it. BEING A FAN is how you get YOURNAME the Hedgehog. That's fucking retarded.

Did anyone say plagiarism?

I liked how Kubo was completely chill with it tho

Attached: bleach rip off.jpg (2657x1997, 945K)

>straight lift animated segments from it
This is far worse because Ikuhara is a big fan of repeating scenes. Just look at Sarazanmai.

Plagiarism is not "this scene looks like this scene". Learn the law.

Attached: b6774339ce00cf40c4dc6d3e8e3a6f2b.png (798x293, 113K)

Did she credit the original scene in the work? That she put on TV? For money? Was there a big flashing neon sign that said THIS IS NOT MY SCENE!! No?

Yeah, and Rebecca throws those scenes into SU willy-nilly without much regard for context. The pizza scene they ripped from End of Evangelion was shoehorned in and honestly felt more like it was disrespected Evangelion than it was anything else.
Just cause she's a fan doesn't suddenly make her references not shoehorned or egregious.

denofgeek.com/us/tv/steven-universe/266591/steven-universe-was-influenced-by-revolutionary-girl-utena

Your impotent anger means nothing to me user so you can go ahead and calm down now.

Pretty much.
I think we had the game and I think the first OVA at the time and while both were sleeper hits over here unless you were into big into anime culture or fighting games you likely would know about it.

*wouldn't

If that's something that makes you angry it says more about you then it does about the children's cartoon you're getting mad at.

If only they actually watched Ikuhara's.

Budget can only take skill so far. Not to mention a perfect replication isn't really the goal of paying homage to something.

>Budget
My, my, my. How Ironic.
Length is more important btw

>Length
That's what she said

Where does parody fall in the list?

don't worry. more evangelion references are coming soon

besides. that pizza scene was obviously a joke

Attached: steven universe pink sea shot.jpg (1280x720, 198K)

>Japan is constantly put on blast for even the tiniest suspicion of unoriginality,
You say that but the shonen genre exists.

Comedic homage. Satire is parody with an underlying message.

Off-topic but the top gif is giving me a coronary with all the little errors in it.

Garnet and Peridot wearing Kamina-like shades, is totally super important! Design may clash, but references maaaaan!

Does that mean Steven will choke Connie and masturbate on her when she's in a coma?

>He doesn't know about the Lapidot fusion

I did up pic related to explain my thoughts on things

Attached: IMG_20190724_183850918.jpg (3072x4096, 2.7M)

>plagarism

Oh fuck I missed an i everything is ruined

Could've benefitted from use of spell check but handwriting doesn't have that handy red squiggle under the word when I misspell something

I'd say frequency plays into it a bit as well. There a difference between TMNT doing an Akira tribute in a scene and Steven Universe constantly aping other works

There is no line. It's all lazy bullshit. Either come up with something original or don't fucking bother.

I've always felt it was stealing when you COULD have done something cool and original, but chose to take someone else's ideas instead. So in the case of OP pic, they could have done their own cool sword fight scene instead of just aping someone else. Compare this to Simpsons doing an Indiana Jones gag, except it's about a kid running to school, the entire gag hinges on being an Indiana Jones parody. There's no joke if it's not directly referencing the over-the-top nature of a fat dad tumbling down the stairs like a boulder.

Homage is when you use tropes commonly found in a genre and modernize them. Like, nobody makes films like Alfred Hitchcock does anymore. To directly take cues from how he paced his stories or wrote his dialogue and add some modern storytelling influence to it is a homage.

And then there's references like Shazam having the Big keyboard in the Mall. It's brief, it doesn't distract from what's happening, and it's referencing Big because Shazam falls into that genre category of "kid magically becoming adult". I think Shazam did that better than Spiderman's "Let's literally show Ferris Bueller's Day Off on a TV".

Attached: 234235353.png (2343x2693, 2.9M)

Shit like these feel too niche to not be kinda tasteless. In a way is a clear recognizable homage

The former two feel like "we want this scene now let's pour over media I like for something we can recreate" where the Akira one is just a throwback to a super famous scene

>"Holy crap Lois it's freakin' He-Man!"
How many times has a "reference" on family guy just been "a joke from a movie but with family guy characters"

Like that time they shamelessly cribbed this joke from the movie Airplane

youtube.com/watch?v=Cv4FgBc1wJo

Homage is when the creator admits it's an intentional reference. Stealing is when they don't.
When reference is used in a fucking plot-important scene it's pretty obnoxious either way though.

Attached: 1354474625809.jpg (747x2880, 257K)

Spirited Away doesn't own falling while holding hands. The context of the two scenes couldn't possibly be more different.

Kubo was a surprisingly based guy.
Shame he wasn't that much of a story teller.

We can only hope.

Find me another scene in any media that does the exact same pacing of characters falling, grabbing hands while talking, one of them tearing up, and then characters putting their heads together and saving themselves before they hit the ground.

What part of "the context" don't you understand user. I'm not denying it's a homage to Spirited Away. I just don't sperg out when I see some weeb referencing anime that they loved as a child and using it in their work.

>A scene involving a major development between two characters
>Using SOMEONE ELSE'S directional choice for this important emotional scene
>"SO WHAT, THEY LIKE SPIRITED AWAY, WHO CARES"

It's literally fan fic tier.

That’s cause your a nigger

And? Let Studio Ghibli sue them. I'm sure they'd be happy to receive your letter.

>Moving goalposts

End of Evangelion itself is a rip-off of Devilman's ending

Attached: devilman ending.jpg (1200x680, 137K)

Why are you still here? Don't you have a studio to call up? People to sue? This is ILLEGAL after all.

Dirty Pair cameo feels like a reach and a half.

>Seething because he lost the argument

What about Lapis making a water clone of Garnet and the two Garnets made the Jojo reference of Dio and Jotaro comparing their speed and punch?

Oh god user, who will preserve the sanctity of anime (the medium that never EVER takes things wholesale and uses them in other works) if not you? Please, be the savior we all need in this dark hour.

That too, I was just doing the ones I remembered. Weirdly I'm a huge jojofag but that one slipped my mind.

>Sad, mad, and bad

no one ever said anime's never plagiarize user, stop grasping at straws trying to save face.

WHEN WILL REBECCA SUGAR BE STOPPED? THE INDUSTRY WILL DIE IF THIS KEEPS HAPPENING. LITERALLY FUCKING SCREAMING RIGHT NOW.

It literally mimics fist by fist, shot in similar angle, despite there could have been a more creative way for the waterclones to have advantage over the gems, not just being copies to use their abilities/powers against them.

>This mad

Lapis isn't really that creative. She just makes big loving fists most of the time.

>post yfw "Enemy Stand!"

Attached: 1563971771909.jpg (737x556, 109K)

I know that this leads directly into Devilman Lady, but did we ever get a continuation of that universe?

Attached: devilman-2215177.jpg (1200x933, 149K)

Attached: 8af.png (224x414, 257K)

Attached: 1551069778995.png (990x657, 304K)

Thanks for reminding me I need to watch bebop again

you ever eaten bell peppers and beef user? its pretty good.

What?
Spirited Away is one of the single most successful animated films of all time and absolutely blows Akira out of the water and Utena was huge with 90's weebs.

I don’t. It doesn’t really matter that much to me desu.

jojo.fandom.com/wiki/Diesel
>The only chapter released of Diesel is an adaptation of the Stardust Crusaders story arc "'The Fool' Iggy and 'God Geb' N'Doul", which was featured in Episode 8 of the OVA (which was released first in Japan).
Holy shit, it's even worst than I thought. It fucking stole an arc from jojo

An homage is when the core ideas and values are present and it feels very tastefully done in respect of the original.

A reference is just a call back or a throwaway line, something to that effect.

Stealing is using the SAME EXACT thing. Not "oh this looks sort of similar", no. It has to be a carbon copy or it isn't stealing.

Pretty sure both of these are actually using the choreography from a live action kung fu movie. And in this case, animating a martial arts fight sequence has got to be pretty tedious.

Yes but I'm talking those specific scenes. Mimicking Totoro in the rain is one thing but picking a random scene of Chihiro and Haku falling is more obscure. I just think if you're going to be unoriginal you should probably be more forthcoming because otherwise it just feels like shortcuts

Not really. I am not sure what was changed in Fujobait:Crybaby since I dropped it after one episode but that was all about escalating conflict and how the two only realized how pointless the whole thing was at the very end plus there was only one character left. EoE was more about the futility of fighting the inevitable. The only similarities were the world ending and a red ocean.
The Amon book shows Satan locked in a purgatory of his own making if I remember correctly.

Thanks to the series I actually tried it. I don't even like bell peppers usually but it wasn't too bad. Though I think without a lot of beef to break up the flavor of the bell peppers I'd get sick

So what, d'you want an interview where Rebecca talks about this? She's already done the intro for the most recent screenings of Whisper of the Heart. It's pretty obvious she's a huge ghiblifag.

>The first fucking episode of the OVA
Real fucking creative guys good job.

Nein.

you should sauteing the peppers in a sauce pan with some onions sauce and sake, it really helps give the bell peppers more flavor.

S - O - Y sauce, fuck this goddamn word filter

Oh cool, I'll give that a shot. Never actually tried cooking with sake before, should be a fun experiment. It give a similar flavoring to like a beer based sauce?
Also the filter is annoying as fuck when you're talking about cooking.

Attached: tumblr_llqe6r5dSm1qfo270o1_500.gif (300x225, 166K)

Came here to say this

Comfy. Almost like the /cock/ crossover again.

Context doesnt matter.

>Context doesn't matter.

someone post zawarudo hulk

Yes you fucking idiot context for why its happening doesnt matter, what matters is its still copying something fucking else.

Gene Simmons' kid comic having a different story from Bleach doesnt somehow mean he didnt fucking plagiarize Bleach.

I think it depends on the sake, because I've used it before and hated it since it tasted like grass clippings and rubbing alcohol. Then again, I think I paid 12 bucks for the bottle so it likely was low quality swill to begin with

sake tastes a bit like onions sauce, i like to ude it as a base instead of something like water that would dilute the flavor, mixing the onions and sake together and sauteing with it gives the peppers a much more oriental taste.ive found the ahlcohol doesnt taste overpowering either due to how well the flavor mixes.

what is this one a reference to?

From the shading and background, i'd say Mignola.

Japan loves Hellboy.

elaborate, I didn't watch either

I forgot it. What's the name of that anime?

Attached: 1540342977.png (434x619, 241K)

Boku no Pico

>Spirited Away (Will spoiler tag just to be safe)
The girl discovers the boy's real name (he is a dragon at this point and he explodes into feathers or whatever and they both fall) and he turns back into a boy. They both fall together and are super happy about the whole thing

>Steven Universe (Also spoilered)
Upon having a panic attack induced vision of his mother, Steven (at the time fused with Connie) falls off the sky arena. In their panic, Stevonnie unfuses and Connie tries to get Steven to fuse again. She notices he's crying and he finally admits that he's been keeping rough shit buried inside (like not being able to save Jasper etc.) and that he doesn't want to think about it because it hurts so much. Connie convinces him that he has to otherwise it won't get better. Steven hesitates, then agrees. They bump heads and fuse again before using Stevonnie's float powers to land safely.

So the staging is the only thing that's identical, and even then the setup, tone and context is completely different.

This is plagiarizing, no um or buts about it.
SU plagiarizes like 90% of it's stuff from animes Rebecca and crew saw as young weebs, and it doesn't matter if they're being "respectful" they're still stealing shit from other creators most westerners will not know about.

So the exact difference between an interest group and a special interest group.

Once again, plagiarism means presenting someone else's ideas as your own. SU does not do this.

The OVA and manga of Part 3 were here pretty early AFAIK, I ordered a Jotaro statue from a Previews issue in like 1999 / 2000

>Because even if you're doing an homage, you're still exploiting someone else's directorial scene to enhance your work
Low IQ

Revolutionary Girl Utena
10/10 Mastapiece
Only way it could be better is if tumblr didn't love it.

>Liking something less because other people like it too
Bruh

>SU does not do this.
It absolutely does because it never gives credits in the show, you have to seek it out through random Twitter posts to find out, and it doesn't subvert anything or add a comical element to it to make it a "parody".

I feel like a proper homage would be something like studying how the cinematography of that one scene from [thing] that you really like works, then try to recreate the same feeling by applying the same techniques because it fits your scene well.
What SU does is cheaply shoehorn in anime references, not because they fit, but because it's easier and they want to show off how much they like anime. I still wouldn't call it stealing but they're definitely just being lazy.
Just because the images are only 95% similar instead of 100% it doesn't mean it's okay, they only do this because they have 0 idea how to make a good action scene themselves. Why else do you think any time they get a competent animator on board to animate a short scene, it gets talked about for weeks? Because that and the anime reference scenes are the only noteworthy animation in the show.
Backgrounds always look really nice though, that's one thing this show is definitely great at.

Attached: 1428020590510.gif (495x642, 20K)

The idea that you need to hold up a sign and say "this is from X" is laughable. Behave yourself user.

Yare yare daze...

Attached: star platinum vs ZA WARUDO.gif (500x344, 562K)

They talk about it because it's above most examples of TV cartoon animation, not just SU. SU's animation is average for cartoon network (mostly in Rough Draft episodes) and above average elsewhere (in SMIP episodes)

The wrong people liking something makes it harder to recommend.
>Hey man, this show is pretty great-
>Ugh, isn't that the show all the SJWs love?

>I feel like a proper homage would be something like studying how the cinematography of that one scene from [thing] that you really like works, then try to recreate the same feeling by applying the same techniques because it fits your scene well.
>What SU does is cheaply shoehorn in anime references, not because they fit, but because it's easier and they want to show off how much they like anime.

also because those are the only moments when SU animation looks ok, the rest of the time is garbage.

and heck, even then they still manage to fuck some things

user, look where you are. These are the same people who will literally make shit up about a show to make it look worse. Like what you like, and if someone else tries to put you down for doing so tell them to go fuck themselves. Life's too short to not enjoy the shows you like.

An homage doesn't have to have anything to do with the fans. It could just be the creator putting it in for themselves.

The way Seth McFarlane and Ready Player One do with '80s pop culture. An homage is essentially a giant love letter.

Attached: lapis fantaman.png (535x1600, 636K)

Sorry that pointing out not giving credit completely ruins your argument, faggot.

>Disney animation is "OK"
You guys have some very warped standards. Watch more cartoons, and yes I mean ones on the same network with the same budgets and constraints.

What argument? You said they had to do it during the show like fucking product placement. That's retarded. Get some perspective and quit bein' mad at people having fun with their cartoons.

>blows Akira out of the water

Attached: 1536873565192.jpg (960x720, 68K)

>plagiarism means presenting someone else's ideas as your own.

By not giving credit, you are essentially doing that.

If you asked Rebecca Sugar at a panel or whatever if X was inspired by Y I'm sure she'd say yes. Her being a huge weeb is an open secret and all the proof I need.

That doesn't matter, because IN THE CONTEXT OF THE FUCKING SHOW, the audience would see Pearl fighting Holo-Pearl and assume it wasn't ripping off an existing fight scene. They would assume it was an original fight scene by the crew. Audience viewers shouldn't have to scour random Comic-Con clips of someone asking Sugar the question to discover the credit.

This isn't an issue I worry about. The only reason you're doing it is because you don't like SU, but rather than simply admit that you're trying to make this about artistic integrity or some shit. Funny how you don't mention any cartoon throughout history that's referenced dragon ball, or even other cartoon network shows aping various video games.

>caring this shit about what other people think
As bad as the SJWs

Swiping shit only ever decreases the value of a work, no matter if it is a reference, a homage, or just straight up stealing. If a part of your work's enjoyment only hinges on the success of something that came before it, then it is not a good work in and of itself.

But on the subject, I feel like a reference or a homage is only good if it is a nod to the audience toward the creator's self-awareness. If you make a story that has thematic or plot-related similarities to an earlier work, then including a little reference to it in order to let the audience know you are aware of the similarities is a lot more honest than simply copying a random fight scene choreography from Episode 12 of some 90s OVA with no actual reference made until some random autismo says "I Recognize That Blowjob!!"

>Moving goalposts this hard

/thread

If this actually happened in an episode, how would you feel?

Attached: 1540525875252.jpg (875x700, 471K)

What about homages to things based on mythology or stories old enough to fall in public domain. I.E. The lion king is just macbeth with lions

In terms of popularity user. Akira is more of a force here than in Japan while Spirited Away is one of the highest grossing films in Japanese history and is wildly popular even with people who don't usually watch anime.
Akira isn't nearly as good as people say it is though.

>Velma Ed
My dick would be very happy. I want to see Velma wearing Ed's outfit now.

>Akira isn't nearly as good as people say it is though.
The manga is, though Otomo had more potential than what he showed with it. It's still among top 5 comics / manga of all time

I feel that this one is played out enough to be fair game. Fucking Glimmer Force riffed on it in 2011, if not earlier.

Haven't seen the film, but Ready Player One the book did homages extremely obnoxiously.

Attached: f161b2fe976bd7cf7319184be5122931.webm (854x480, 2.84M)

>The manga is
No, but the art is god-tier.

>If you asked Rebecca Sugar at a panel or whatever if X was inspired by Y I'm sure she'd say yes
Has she ever explicitly given credit to any of the shit that she has stolen?

I haven't gotten around to it yet but I believe you.
One volume seemed to have enough content for multiple movies. I am just judging the film which was just some pretty nonsense.
>Glimmer Force
I will fucking fight you.

Mythology are their own references, it's like saying you're using a dog as a reference to a dog.

As far as public domain and cultural legacy narratives, you can't "rip off" Romeo and Juliet, you can only remake it because it's impossible to hide. Their success has made them immune to being plagiarized.

>Funny how you don't mention any cartoon throughout history that's referenced dragon ball, or even other cartoon network shows aping various video games.
Because those count as parody due to being extremely obvious and transparent about it? Everyone knows what the fuck a super saiyan is, so when someone from the KND transforms into one as a joke there needs no further explanation. Meanwhile nobody knows about the anime Lapis' design rips off and wouldn't have been known without someone pointing it out. Rebecca also never told anyone about being inspired by said anime for a crucial character in the show instead of a joke.

Kimba the White Lion is not public domaim.

>One volume seemed to have enough content for multiple movies. I am just judging the film which was just some pretty nonsense.

The film was directed by Otomo himself, so it was the very best we could have hoped for since they didn't do giant trilogies like are so common today after Matrix and LotR. The manga is so dense and broad at the same time I am amazed he managed to pull something even close to cohesive together for a single movie.

Pulled from a google result.
>Series creator Rebecca Sugar, as revealed on the Steven Universe podcast, grew up watching various anime such as Detective Conan, One Piece, and especially Revolutionary Girl Utena.
>Sugar says that as a teenager the Utena series, “was an epiphany for me. The way that it plays with the semiotics of gender. I was a bisexual teenager watching a show like Utena. It was stunning, I related to it in a way that I had never really felt before and it really stuck with me.”
>The number of direct references are too numerous to count, but the themes of Utena have been with Steven Universe from the very beginning, particularly its portrayal of gender. Utena regularly subverts and inverts gender roles. While Utena dresses in male clothing and use the masculine form of "I" ("boku") she also keeps her long flowing pink hair. Her deep love for Anthy and their realationship is one of the cornerstones of the series. Much of the show’s plot can also be interpreted to be about struggling with and being constrained by the gender binary.
>All of this had a huge impact on Sugar.
>“I love that she (Utena) decides that after being saved by a prince that she wants to be a prince, It's great!”
Utena literally made her the anti-conformity SJW she is today.

Attached: she's not not a fan.jpg (813x762, 67K)

Anthy was literally an evil witch that regularly fucked her own brother, played with people's lives and ultimately got Utena killed. What a great thing to be positively inspired by as a bisexual!

Copyright has never given a flying fuck about Japanese creators.

most like copyright has never given a flying fuck about asian creators in general

So Diesel doesn't count as plagiarism anymore? Because the creator was a huge fan of Jojo and mostly copied it to spread awareness of the original, so that means it's totally okay now!

The Akira manga is fantastic, retard.

You missed the point of the show.
She was seen as a witch because she accidentally ruined the masculine image of the prince by trying to protect him and stepped outside of her role as a woman, she isn't happy with being forced into sex with her brother but is too emotionally dead to resist (she tries to kill herself remember) and Utena's sacrifice was to help her find the inner strength to escape her situation on her own. Utena didn't die, she just gained self-awareness and was thus able to 'graduate' like Mikage.

The Utena English dub is awful in many ways, but was how I watched the series for the first time ages ago. To this day, I'm haunted by Anthy's line reading in a simple "Next Episode" bit that happened toward the end of the series - something like "Oh, Miss Utena - don't you know how much I've always hated you?" Haven't heard that in almost 20 years, but I still remember it.

no, but there were a ton of ways you could've done it differently instead of just ripping it off

So you're admitting that she IS stealing shit, you just don't care because you're a blind fanboy. Good to know.

yeah, it's got variety
>moeshit
>ghibli
>everything else

You got me. I was only half paying attention during any non-Nanami episode by the end because I got pretty lost when I missed a few of the plot dumps hidden in the nonsense and the ending flew over my head. It kind of just looked like she got stabbed and died to me but that makes Anthy going to find her make more sense. Well kind of.
I don't watch dubs but I can imagine.

it's shallow because you just going "oh, that was cool, let me just trace over it with my shitty drawings" is just lazy
if you wanted to homage it, that's fine, but maybe try not being a dobson about it

Everything else is a pretty broad category dog.
Also what is it with people and thinking Ghibli is something special and unique?

Attached: 444856.gif (853x480, 2.41M)

Copying a scene of animation, frame for frame, and just replacing the character with your own is the very definition of presenting someone else's work as if it were your own. Just like how the Slam Dunk manga artist got flak for tracing NBA photos.

no, but plagiarism can be "this animation is an exact copy of this animation"

>they never build from this
Dam...

I think eruka 7 did the same thing, but with explosions
some f/a/ggot told me that it was so superior because of the explosions

Doesn't match up 1:1 with the acting like SU/Spirited Away did.

You really should keep quiet when you have no idea of what you speak.

>tfw making my own comic and keep having to change character designs and plot points thanks to finding similarities to other well known properties

Attached: 1532743003315.jpg (600x452, 43K)

dude was younger than i am now when he started writing bleach, and i feel like my own writing is still fanfic-tier
i mostly give him a pass for being a less-than-great writer, but i think he's decent at doing foreshadowing

you just ripped off this South Park episode with this post, user

Attached: simpsons did it.png (803x602, 418K)

imagine having such bad comprehensional ability you mangle someone’s point this badly

>picking a random scene of Chihiro and Haku falling is more obscure
that scene is easily recognizable and arguably one of the more iconic scenes of the movie after the spirits walking scene

>tfw this user dropped out of school before getting to the citation portion of english

It's not about the actual falling you mong, it's the exact same sequence of events. You can have people falling together. A lot of shit did it, but when you pill the same near frame by frame sequence then you're a hack.

Attached: DMJii fall.webm (1280x720, 2.96M)

>similarities to other well known properties

Don't beat yourself up.

Batman was inspired by Zorro.
Green Lantern was ripped from Lensmen.
Star Wars was a mashup of Flash Gordon & The Hidden Fortress.
The title "Avengers" and the entire "Hellfire Club" arc in X-Men was plagiarized from a British TV show titled "The Avengers".

You are up against over a century of archived film, comics, and literature.

So make what you want,
and don't worry if some assholes on a message board somewhere can fine some contrived similarity between your stuff and the giant fucking mountain of cultural media that was here before you were born.

Attached: AcmeDisintegratingPistol.gif (499x296, 453K)

should we also mention everything that rips off superman and batman? how about everything that rips off star wars? everything that rips off matrix bullet-time?

>Everything else is a pretty broad category dog.

Attached: thatsthejoke[1].jpg (480x360, 23K)

You're never going to be completely 100 percent original. Everyone gets inspired somehow, either by other media or real life events. The key element is to be SIMILAR but also DIFFERENT. Batman changed the character by giving him a modern setting, a car, more detective work various gadgets and his own rogues gallery etc. You can find the roots but the fruit is different.

That's why shit like OPs image stands out. Sugar didn't make a story that was INSPIRED by Utena, she just made Utena. People need to stop looking at the superficial elements of the show and build upon the actual core and take that in new directions. This is why HOMAGES and REFERENCES get groans.

Attached: screwdrivervdagger.jpg (500x375, 19K)

Didn't Adventure Time ripoff Evangelion?

One step further. The finale of Gravity Falls referenced this scene from Evangelion. It's like three levels of heresy:
1. referencing the fucking rebuilds
2. referencing a scene that was already a reference to another show
3. having a plot important cliffhanger to your series finale be a reference

His stand is freakazoid?

>The lion king is just macbeth with lions
Hamlet.

>homage
There's no such thing as an homage, its just what faggots call references to impress their boyfriends.
>reference
when there's irony in the presentation of the borrowed thing
>Stealing
everything else is stealing, just when its acceptable levels of stealing its called "Derivative"

Lion King still changed enough to be different, it's the same thing as Seven Samurai and Magnificent Seven. Only the frame work is similar.

This is an homage/reference. If you unironically think Steven Universe put in a sequence from one of the most famous anime ever and expected no one to notice you are legitimately retarded and should be getting money from the government.

I mean that’s up for you to decide or maybe it was intended to be that way. The homages were supposed to be the creation of eccentric 80s junkie, so I’m more inclined to believe that certain people were meant to walk away feeling like that.

Homage should be quick and clean. Not trying to do the exact same thing. The Akira Bike thing is a homage and only lasts a few seconds

That fight is straight up Stealing, its the exact same fucking thing for more than a minute with no difference whatsoever and made you think this series would have more fight scenes when it didn't

A reference is so damn quick you might miss it.

It doesn't build on the scene and is this a rip off at worst and lazy writing at best.

>from one of the most famous anime ever
Also, c'mon. It's hardly a obscure title but get real.

Just because you acknowledged it doesn't mean it's not stolen.

I got downvoted to shit on the SU sub for mentioning that SU reminded me of the Sega Saturn game Astal. Even the music was similar

m.youtube.com/watch?v=d_553Qdxgws

Technically the 93 JoJo OVA did it first

Yeah I keep reminding myself of this, I really just don't want to be one of those guys rehashing shit they saw as a teenager but worse

Which reminds me, the whole battle shonen genre manga is derivative from a series that started as a Ultraman parody gag manga that later added pro wrestling elements to the mix and didn't had any pretension of being some groundbreaking innovative work of fiction, but if it weren't for it shit like Dragon Ball, Naruto and One Piece would probably be nonexistent today.

Attached: Kinnikuman_(Jump_Comics).jpg (408x650, 78K)

You can do it user, hell, I'm borrowing elements from Medabots for my stuff, and people like it. Just don't be like Disney when it comes to Kimba and denying ever hearing about what helped inspire your project.

All Tezuka's widow demanded was to put in the end of the credits "inspired by Kimba the White Lion" but the greed of the Rat was far too big for even that

I hate Kira simply because it ruined all motorcycle scenes forever. Everyone is now obligated to have their motorcycle scene play exactly as in Kira.

homage is making a work because you like someone else's shit and decided to take inspiration from it. Ideally, with an homage, nobody should tell why they think your show is like a magical girl anime, but it should still feel like it has something to do with one. Like season one of stranger things.
A reference is blatantly making an allusion to another piece of media, like if steven was playing pikmin at some point and we see the game and it's just pikmin.
Stealing is taking someone else's shit to make your shit better, like every fight scene in the entirety of the show. This is when you don't call out the reference, basically.

Honestly it's gotten to the point where it does feel overplayed and cheap.

At this point I'm waiting for a show to do the scene but then fuck it up, just to add a twist to it.

Everyone just plays it too straight. I feel like there has to be some other motorcyle scene we could be talking about

When the action is primarily seen as a JoJo trope, saying JoJo did it first seemed kind of unnecessary.
Unless Fist of the North Star also had a sequence of dudes punching each others' fists in melee combat. I would give points to that.

Found the SUckers

It isn't, but Otomo is my favorite manga artist. The artistic aspect is genius, I'll give you that, but not the writing.

What kind of similarities? I feel like focusing on characters before plot helps with this

I guess it comes down to how 1:1 it is. If it's a beat per beat recreation it's theft if it's like OP where context is different than it's fine.

have secks

what if the character tried to bike slide and then just rolled and crashed

I think this is alright,you dont need to understand the reference for it to make sense in context so it just works,its like the shrek LOTR reference or golden era simpsons references.It would suck if the show was going out of its way to make the reference,but it isnt the case

That would be a bit amusing.

Dunno.

Attached: 1563651239242.jpg (2288x861, 507K)

What are the homages, references, or stolen designs in this image?

>Cool smug black chick
>Skittish loser white guy
>nerdy ambiguously ethic guy
>LOL WACKY girl

SU is full on stealing, since it just copies from everything over and over. Add to that indoctrination of children, retarded pacing, gay sex shit, annoying MC and you'll get yourself a show terrible for kids and adults alike.
I genuinely think that only people with some mental disorders can enjoy that mess.

No one does that in regards to stealing though. Any “stealing” claim I’ve ever seen has been a very intentional usage by the creator

just because someone draws eyes bigger doesn't mean its different. its like calarts but over an entire industry.

Compare the art of Jojo to Sailor Moon to Evangelion to Ghibli etc etc the only similarities they have are the fact that they're anime. If you drew Sailor Moon in a Jojo artstyle or vice versa it would be immediately obvious and funny. The difference between all these animes art style's isn't just "bigger eyes".

Western cartoons may have more overall variation in body style because their characters are deformed af (from a technical standpoint, Naruto is less deformed than Homer Simpson). Anime generally tries to have more realistic human figures (albeit with huge head and eyes).

Plagiarism is typically intentional, yes.

>its like calarts but over an entire industry.
So a widely varied thing that has been falsely deemed as samey by a bunch of internet retards?
Sounds about right desu.
youtube.com/watch?v=pB3gc6Uc7y0
youtube.com/watch?v=Px9FvddtgpM
youtube.com/watch?v=j-HPhUy5Awk
youtube.com/watch?v=SF6qfUKPj4Q
youtube.com/watch?v=eBKaURMSy7Y
youtube.com/watch?v=zr-qEDbL9kU
youtube.com/watch?v=yfoZRgoaIDk

It gets even more varied if you read mangas too. Just look at the art in Berserk, this aint fucking Calarts lmao

Attached: Berserk_eclipse.jpg (1519x1100, 683K)

Reference is when it's short, but fairly blatant, like having the Master Sword and the Thundercats sword and Gut's Dragon Slayer on a wall of swords, but they're not the one the character chooses.
Homage is more subtle, but longer, like the Ecstasy of Gold scene in Samurai Jack.
Stealing is like an homage, but you fervently deny that it's not your idea, like the Kimba the White Lion/Lion King issue. I don't care how good Lion King is, motherfuckers ripped off Tezuka.

I just realized Steven is Part 4 Josuke.

You're comparing manga to cartoons?

Attached: Berserk 25 (1080p, 10-bit)(8E0A8E13).mkv_snapshot_16.50_[2019.06.24_07.15.36].jpg (1440x1080, 187K)

I don't even like Berserk and even I have to admit that it has great art.

>I don't even like Berserk
How?

Uh yeah most animes were based on a manga and carry the artstyle over. Obviously the scene isnt as detailed in the anime as in the manga but it's still definitely not some generic moeblob thing.
Comparing manga without anime to cartoons would be REALLY unfair. Show me a western cartoon creator who can draw like Miura and I'll suck your cock.

Attached: 0172a1.jpg (1024x768, 79K)

I don't like the characters, the reliance on shock violence and rape got stale fast and the story has dragged on for way too fucking long.
I liked the series until a bit after Griffith turned but it lost me after that.

>I did not actually read Berserk

They turn the edge WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY down dude.

>until a bit after Griffith turned
Ah, you're one of those.

What anime/anime art is your favorite user?

Attached: 575067.jpg (1920x1080, 176K)

Not that user but I like stories that, like,
Progress, and eventually end.
I don't read capeshit either.

fucking braindead low IQ retards who think an homage is a fucking art theft conspiracy need to be locked up

Stealing is what Disney did to Osamu Tezuka when they stole his work and claimed it as their own

>this is just homage
>and this
>and this
>this too
>and this

Is SU a comedy skit show or something?

I think I got to the part with the rape trolls that make women explode with troll babies. Sorry man it just felt silly to me. My real problem was less with the edge and more with Guts being a boring sadsack and the story not being to my liking.
Pretty though.
I sure am.
From an art standpoint I am a huge fan of Usamaru Furuya.

This is where I draw the line. Nick Simmons saying he had never even heard of Bleach was too much and it's obvious he was a talentless hack.

When what all your show does is remind people of better shows then it's not a good thing. References aren't homages.

>I dont like the characters
Thats just insane, if there isnt a character within Berserk that resonates passionately with you than you need to do some self evaluation. Please elaborate your gripes.
>The reliance on shock violence
shock violence is actually fairly rare in Berserk and only used to express/explain the various traits and traumas of different characters (farnese's childhood, Gutts' childhood, and the Eclipse are probably the the greatest uses of actual shock violence, and each are justified)
>and rape
How many rapes are there actually in berserk? Count them for me.
You couldnt handle the Eclipse, could you user?
>Story's dragged on for way too fucking long.
If you weren't reading it with its release and didnt have to suffer the boat arch then this argument holds no water. The growth of the story has been wonderfully organic, even if we were just violently blueballed from one of our greatest story beats.
>I liked the series until a bit after Griffith turned
Griffith never turned you fool
>But it lost me after that.
You couldn't handle the Eclipse, could you user?

You strike me as a Judeau kind of fella.

Attached: InternallyMogged.jpg (580x945, 107K)

Then i expect channers to finally shut the fuck up about autism, sex and filmaking

Purest post ive ever fucking seen.

Attached: 9K056IwV_400x400.jpg (400x400, 50K)

Why do you Bersekfags always get really riled up when people don't like your favorite manga?
It makes you seem like thin skinned bitches.

>Posts something stupid and wrong
>WAAAAAAAAAAH DON'T CORRECT ME! YOU'RE JUST MAD!

How is not liking a manga wrong?
I just don't have the same opinion as you.

I couldnt give a shit if people dont care about Berserk, but have at least some attempt at reasoning behind it. If I go on Yea Forums and say
>I didnt like The Godfather because the character motivation was unclear

and then say "Why do you Godfatherfags always get really riled up when people don't like your favorite movie? It makes you seem like thin skinned bitches." when i get reasonably criticized then Im pretty sure i'd still be the retard.

Also my favorite manga is One Piece :)

user I'm going to be honest with you, people get riled up because they love berserk because it's quite possibly one on the greatest things ever.
Because people get angry when they see something that is objectively wrong

I think the ultimate problem is the writers themselves. These days it seems like all anyone can ever do is write from HOMAGE or pop culture reference. No one draws inspiration from reality, it's all just regurgitated nostalgia. The writers and artists only know their favorite cartoons and anime. Writing experience has basically just become watching a lot of other people's work and not putting any thought into them beyond OMG TEH EPIC.

That's why these homages feel cheap. Im assuming that these falling and sword fight moments are supposed to be, at least somewhat, important narratively. So why would you take your viewers out of that moment to remind them how much you like another show? All you're doing is undermining your own work by making your "inspiration" to obvious and frankly I'd rather just go watch that instead.

Instead of just copying a scene and putting it into your own work, wouldn't it better to take the themes and story elements and explore those?

Attached: Shino pointer.png (608x600, 210K)

Not liking the manga is fine, YOUR REASONS however are blatantly wrong. That's why you get called out. You didn't just say "Meh, I never liked Bersker all that much" you said a bunch of stuff that implies you barely read it at all or if you did you weren't paying attention. Hence why you got called an idiot. Idiot.

Attached: guts.jpg (480x480, 71K)

I like Berserk but desu Berserk fans are perpetually irritable and mopey, probably because Miura is too busy playing Idolmaster to make the manga go anywhere

Both of these are referencing Bruce Lee

Nigga when was the last time you checked on the manga? Its been going fucking everywhere lately. We've been in a goddamn heyday over in Berserk Fandom

>manga that started 30 fucking years ago
>"lately" is the past few months max
Well I'm damn sure it's not any closer to the end

>I have no patience and need constant external stimulation because I can't form an imaginative thought of my own.

>Well I'm damn sure it's not any closer to the end

Attached: casca smiles.jpg (1103x1600, 678K)

Faye works that look better than Daphne.

Wouldn't it be funny if Miura died and didn't leave any notes?

Stop. Berserk isn't that good.

WHICH Bruce Lee movie
NOBODY has been able to find the reference

It's Game of Death.

Oh yeah? Which scene? Can't find that shit on YouTube buddy.

Attached: conan lee.gif (533x200, 1.27M)

Right looks so insipid.

>Dirty Pair cameo feels like a reach and a half.

Not really, Kei is ginger, so they made her black. Standard netflix adaption.

This is more an obscure reference. I don't even know the anime on the bottom

Attached: file.png (541x205, 12K)

what a dumb fucking post. Most miserable and failed attempt at defending ecelebs I've ver seen

Domu was better

>Star Wars was a mashup of Flash Gordon & The Hidden Fortress.
Star Wars was Valerian dude. The staff even admitted to having issues of it about during production which now are mysteriously never mentioned.

I mean yeah it's Indy and Flash and other stuff, but there's a lot of Valerian in there too.

Attached: valerian.jpg (1229x3097, 462K)

> sake tastes a bit like onions sauce
what kind of sake are you buying? Because every time I've ordered bottle of sake, it tastes like "sake" not onions sauce. it isn't even made from basedbeans, it's a rice wine.

Nobody experiences real life anymore and can't draw from that.
So the only thing they -can- draw from is other media.

this

Attached: ANONS COOL CHART.png (636x584, 28K)

literally how it works, yeah
do like it? too fucking bad.

And that's just sad. When DeFalco was writing the Mayday Spider-girl he based it off his cop buddies relationship with his cop daughter. That mix of fear and pride that comes from a parent whose child follows in their footsteps in a dangerous line of work. And it was great. Flash forward to a recent book and it's just references, memes or other trendy bullshit and nothing can go a year without being shit canned.

Attached: 100.jpg (456x700, 99K)

This is real, nobody has an actual life anymore with meaningful human interaction. They all live through media

tragic

Attached: connect.jpg (250x247, 9K)

>baki the grappler
based

homage: Tarantino movies
reference: Rob Liefeld panel swipes (
stealing: Seth MacFarlane stealing JImmy Corrigan

Attached: 1460519598334.jpg (640x720, 95K)

What about cryptomnesia, copying something you've seen before but thinking it's a completely original idea?

im pretty sure i just have a weird sense of taste, stuff usually has specific flavors only i seem to taste. beer tastes like stale crackers, red wine tastes like blood and onions sauce to me, my tounge is just weird

It happens but never in instances like OP where it's too detailed.

That happens with general ideas or character designs, not frame-for-frame action scenes

seems like a weird form of sociopathy/narcissism.
They'd probably be insufferable if confronted or called out on it.
Has there been any shitstorms featuring a cryptomnesiac?

Yes, I can't blame the guy for thinking he could get away with it, Jojo is a copyright nightmare when most characters have bandnames.

>"behold my stand, Filthy acts at a reasonable price!

Attached: Yoshikage Jones.png (324x368, 107K)

In an ideal world, an homage is a tasteful nod to a work that has come before, substantial enough to be noticable but restrained to a small detail or atmospheric flourish
In practice, it just means that you rip something you like off wholesale but you want to look cute and pretend that you aren't stealing

Not really, the red sea was from crybaby in the original manga the sea is normal.

>Not the same character, not the same motivations
But the same model and water powers.

Attached: hqdefault[1].jpg (480x360, 17K)

Nah, that happened between Devilman and Devilman lady I think. They must of lost for Devilman Saga to occur, but we won't ever get that until the one dick who does it (Xperase) gets over his giant raping insect/precure fetish.

They probably will change it to 4D or something. What about coincidence where there is no way the person doing the "Homage" knew about the original material?
Like for SU or pic related from an old superman comic.

Attached: superman killerqueen.jpg (568x311, 68K)

nobody read Devilman. Its just a collective hallucination

outside of the pointy ears and pale skin, that character doesnt really look like killer queen at all, where asis a complete dead ringer for lapis. and since becky is a known anime fan, its a lot harder to write off as a coincidence for characters that look that similar.

Attached: Killer_queen_c345.png (515x723, 1.08M)

jesus dude

Touga did nothing wrong. Fight me you cowards.

Attached: sweetbro_andhellajeff.jpg (550x420, 50K)

And then you have OnePiece where Oda just grabbed a character from an old samurai movie and put him on his manga basically unchanged.

Attached: fujitora-shintaro-katsu-zatoichi.jpg w=488&h=293.jpg (1000x600, 320K)

Kinnikuman was a parody of Ultraman?

it started out as one.

Anime!Lapis doesn't have the same water powers, she uses a doohickey to do shit. She also wears that ugly purple flasher coat, so the model is different too.

Attached: Jgtl0sc.jpg (1944x1436, 750K)

>filename

Attached: 79533600.jpg (248x237, 6K)

Ultraman isn't completely original either
>In the course of the legal battle, Sompote presented photos of himself sharing his photos of Thai Buddhist edifices stating that Eiji had based Ultraman's face on those edifices, a claim which he has continued to hold since the dispute began. No other evidence supporting this claim was known to exist.
Also, did the aspects Battle Shonen took inspiration from originate when it was an Ultraman parody or when it moved to pro-wrestling?

Attached: firefox_2019-07-25_10-08-26.png (300x376, 227K)

>didn't have akio's red shiny convertible
>had to use a shitty motorcycle/sidecar

Touga did everything wrong.

no idea, i haven't gotten around to watching through all of kinikuman yet, and ive never watched ultraman before.

Everything made by women is always ripping off anime 1:1.
They have no imagination and no fantasy, so they just steal and call it "homages".

based and redpilled

Attached: mah nigga.jpg (1033x679, 168K)

Shit. It's an airtight argument. Everything I know is a lie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, people that work creativily in western cartoons and comics are fucking talentless hacks that thinks theft like this is okay and gets away with it because their braindead fans goes "NICE REFRENCE BRO" there is no wonder why no one takes western comics or cartoon seriously because all the good writers doesn't work in such shit industries

You hit the nail on the head, writers today are just shit because ironically they're nerds that grew up with these types of media, also a severe lack of understanding that what they do is flatout stealing.

all the admirals are based on actors, right?

i think so, dont know any of the actors though.

Attached: 1559345772098.jpg (2048x1636, 697K)

There is no originality left in modern art because the point of modern art is to destroy traditional art for no other reason than to destroy the concept of beauty.

the al capone one is pretty dumb, the character is literally called al capone, any one can tell hes going to be based on al capone.

His name is Capone Bege.

i havnt watched one piece that far, but its still obvious to any one seeing the character and the name that hes based on al capone.

a lot of these are good examples of inspiration for characters, with the exceptions of the 3 admirals which are near exact likenesses.

to be fair i think the admirals are supposed to look almost exactly like the actors their based on.

Didn't know there were that many actor references, although some of them are reaching a little too hard like Hulk Hogan/Whitebeard

the old knight guy is pretty far out there too, the only similarity is that their both old and knights. they dont even wear the same style of armor.

Diesel and Incarnate. That's the line.

Maybe I should start watching anime so I can start catching some of these.

That scene wasn't actually just copying Utena.

Attached: nexus-eva-222.jpg (1320x736, 309K)

>Trusting that two-faced scumfuck Sompote
He was literally making shit up throughout the legal battle for the sake of justifying keeping the property away from the Tsuburaya family, and upon losing the rights started selling scripts and designs to China so that they could continue ripping off TsuPro.

Star Wars was a lot of shit.

It was Valerian, Flash Gordon, Hidden Fortress, and Jack Kirby.

There's also a character with the same name in DC that was created before Tsuburaya's Ultraman

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraman_(comics)

If it looks like they're trying to hide it or someone in production got lazy, it's stealing. If the mood is similar and the themes are present so it makes you think of something and then just then it gives that thing to you, it's an homage. If its caricature or a deconstruction of a cultural icon, it's parody.

IS THAT A

>it actually came before JoJo Phantom Blood

Attached: kono phoenixman da.png (1007x1563, 517K)

...how old are you mate

Sompote lost!!!!!!

We are now getting good HD releases of Ultraman direct from Tsuburaya!

Attached: emara shin cutie honey.jpg (1129x1200, 266K)

Infinity War was clearly referencing this with the Soul Stone, right?

Steven Universe is pretty blatant thievery, and if not thievery than its at absolute least an unoriginal work that uses its inspirations as crutches instead of as foundations.

oda does this shti all the time
hell, that guy from the cp9 arc was based on Mankind from WWF

>pretending for even a fucking minute that Calarts doesnt exist in comic books too

Attached: file.png (1400x2152, 3.82M)

what the fuck is that user,and why have you brought it here

Attached: 1557625835037.png (599x462, 427K)

Why its the comic book "Lumberjanes" by Shannon Watters, Grace Ellis, Brooklyn A. Allen and Noelle Stevenson, published by Boom Studios.

And its... its about. a...

Its bout... Fuck this is hurtnig my brain reading this wikipedia article, how the fuck did something like this need FIVE writers and EIGHT artists?

Attached: file.png (1696x747, 220K)

>its impossible to be inspired by a piece of art without copy pasting it
universe drones everyone

No it isnt jackass. People are taught in school for years about plagiarism. Nobody does it intentionally.

Not that that’s what the conversation was about anyway you fucking moron.

Wow this sounds fucking awful. Now I understand why people were talking shit about the She-Ra reboot once it was revealed that Noelle Stevenson was in charge of it.

>In 2015, Lumberjanes was nominated and won two Eisner Awards, for Best New Series and Best Publication for Teens

>This won an Eisner

Do Eisners mean anything anymore?

Attached: i2.gif (360x230, 2.81M)

>"Miss Qiunzella Thiskwin Penniquiqul Thistle Crumpet's Camp for Hardcore Lady Types,"

Attached: 1563462584575.png (604x416, 184K)

>contrived similarity between your stuff and the giant fucking mountain of cultural media that was here before you were born.
that only happens if you copy and paste shit without adding your own personality to it

Listen to my Le Holy Joan Mixtape, sis!

Originality is overrated. Just because something did something first doesn’t mean it can’t be done better, or work in a different context. I wish the concept of “stealing” in art didn’t exist. We’d have a lot more competition and better art would come out of it.

>Steven Universe faggot finding excuses for blatant copying

Okay retard

>"I wish the concept of “stealing” in art didn’t exist. We’d have a lot more competition and better art would come out of it"
imagine believing this.

Attached: 1540191869028.jpg (732x604, 139K)

>This won not one, but TWO Eisner Awards

Attached: file.png (994x1528, 2.52M)

>Originality is overrated
the only people who think this are the ones who can't have an original idea to save their life

Attached: 1549937776969.jpg (434x532, 25K)

Steven Universe sucks, dude. I’m not defending SU with my post.

Yup. Imagine several people being able to tackle the same concept without the law or the public backlashing against it. Eventually one of them could be a masterpiece.

Original ideas don’t exist. It’s all about execution anyway.

TWO EISNERS!

Attached: file.png (600x289, 360K)

>Yup. Imagine several people being able to tackle the same concept without the law or the public backlashing against it. Eventually one of them could be a masterpiece.
Everyone already can do that you dumb fucking retard.

Just dont fucking copy what other people do, like literally copy pasting entire fucking fight scenes, you dumb fucking faggot.

>" Imagine several people being able to tackle the same concept without the law or the public backlashing against it."
they can nigga. they already can. how many different versions are there of a christmas carol, or romeo and juliet? people can already do that. the problem is blatantly ripping something off and not doing anything original with the concept, which is what most people do.

TWO ENTIRE FUCKING EISNER AWARDS.

LOOK AT THAT THINGS "FACE". LOOK AT IT.

Attached: file.png (1800x2734, 3.99M)

says the unoriginal mouthbreather

No, they don’t. I can’t make “Star Wars 7: but actually good” and make money. Copyright law prevents true artistic freedom in the marketplace of ideas. Ironically fanfiction and porn are the only areas that have that kind of freedom, but no money is made so talent can’t compete.

Stop projecting.

>TWO EISNERS

Attached: file.png (794x521, 659K)

Awards have never meant anything

there's a difference between fucking copy pasting shit and being inspired by something Rebecca

>only happens if
Not really.
No matter how hard you try to add 'your own personality', it will always be similar enough to some other story somewhere for some NEET to complain about.

>it's not "good artists borrow and great artists steal";
>it's good artists clumsily pick-pocket,
>great artists pull off the heist of the century.
artsammich.blogspot.com/2011/05/art-of-heist.html

Attached: dalegribble.png (368x279, 137K)

>WHY CANT I STEAL SOMEONE ELSES INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY WAAAAAAAAAH

>" I can’t make “Star Wars 7: but actually good” and make money."
yea cause star wars is its own IP that some one own you fucking retard. you can make your own sci fy story with your own characters and storylines if you wanted too.

>I AM SILLY

>Someone else goes through the hard work of establishing characters, stories, and a setting
>I WAN FANFICTION BABY WANT FANFICTION NOW! PAY ME FOR FANFICTION!

There’s variety in both, I don’t know why either side uses this argument

You can make a science-fantasy space opera if you want you dumb fuck, you just cant make it Star Wars because you didnt fucking come up with the idea for Star Wars.

>WHY CANT I STEAL SHIT AND GET PAID FOR STEALING SHIT
Thats you.

But if I wanted to use a laser sword I would just be “a star wars ripoff” and even if my movie was better, it would be discredited as “unoriginal”.

The rules of “originality” as set forth by the modern conception of art and copyright law basically means every time someone tries an idea it takes it off the table for the next guy. The “originality pool” grows smaller day by day. That’s sad to me.

The west has been lacking variety in its cartoons for quite a few years .They're all permutations on the same general style, instead of a variety of distinctly, clearly separate styles.

are the characters almost always shown in this 3/4 perspective?

>someone invents a car
>I make a better car
WOOOOOOOOW YOU STOLE MY IDEA

>Toyota makes a Toyota Supra 2020
>You make your own Toyota Supra and try to sell it
>Get sued because Toyota owns their version of a sports car and instead of making your own sports car, you just copied their sports car

Make your own sports car, faggot.

other sci fy IP's have laser swords and dont get called rip offs by most people. you are complaining that you cant do literally the exact same thing as someone else with out getting called unoriginal, which you are.

Don't mind me bro. Just paying a homage.

Attached: pickpocket-mask-trying-to-steal-wallet-25899840.jpg (1300x957, 86K)

>“Star Wars 7: but actually good

You can, just change the names because those characters don't belong to you

Just like my house is not up for you to "improve", neither is my story or characters.

This is the problem that was pointed out by these anons
Little fuckers like you have absolutely nothing new to bring to the table, so they just rehash what is already out there, and it has created a boring incestuous pool of media that has gone absolutely nowhere for decades

Yes

Treating narratives as a tangible product limits artistic freedoms. Fact. Someone could turn around and make “The Slimpsons” and it could be 50x better than the modern incarnation of the show, but they would be critically discredited, not for being bad or worse than the original, but for not being a new concept. That’s a real fucking shame.

>Dumb faggot demonstrates why copyright law exists

Thank you, Statute of Anne.

if you wanted to make " the simpsons but better"
then why not just become a writer for the simpsons you dumb fuck

homages and references are very obvious
plagiarism too, but you won't see people trying to hide their homages and references under dumb excuses

Because you wanted to make it better. Maybe the confines of whatever you fix can’t be done to the Simpsons IP.

This is not a difficult concept.

I don't like it but it's ok when it's something like OP pic.

It's not ok when it's something like it rips off an entire animation style. That's why Gumball is such a shitty, despicable show.

MOTHERFUCKER THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN USING THE SAME NARRATIVE BASE AND LITERALLY USING SOMEONE ELSES FUCKING CHARACTERS, STORY, SETTING, AND CONCEPTS 100% VERBATIM.

How the fuck would you feel if you made something and someone else said "Fuck you i'll do it better", took your shit without permission, redid it but he changed a guy so he was gay or blew his brains out or some gay shit, and then made 80 million dollars off it while you're left to rot in the dust?

You absolute dipshit.

Attached: tenor (5).gif (194x228, 809K)

then make a different fucking show with different characters, different locations, different episodes. you dont just use an existing ip dumbass.

So make a new fucking IP that has the same concept of the Simpsons but has uniquely different characters and designs, you fucking idiot.

You can do that.

Thats legal.

Seth McFarlane did it fucking twice and then did it again with Star Trek.

which is funny, because the old knight (movie) is don quixote, which is another one piece character, the dude in the bottom right corner, who bears no similarity at all.

>Someone could turn around and make “The Slimpsons” and it could be 50x better than the modern incarnation of the show, but they would be critically discredited

>Family Guy
>American Dad
>King of the Hill
>Literally every family comedy after the Simpsons aped the Simpsons

You can use the same premise, you can use the same setup and format, you just can't use the actual setting / characters

>copyright exists to limit free expression of ideas by giving people a “first come first serve” system towards their artistic expression

Man, I wouldn’t have even gone that far. The bigger problem isn’t even the law, it’s public perception.

>WHY CANT I STEAL SHIT WAAAAH

YOU didnt create it. YOU didnt put in the work to design those characters. YOU didnt make Star Wars 1-3 or the Simpsons for the first decade or so. YOU didnt do any of that shit, why should YOU have the right to take THEIR work and profit off of it?

Make your own shit you fucking faggot.

> laser sword I would just be “a star wars ripoff”
no it wouldn't you strawmanning retard
if you just take ideas from your top 10 favorite stories and mash them together its obviously going to be original
its only a ripoff if you only take inspiration from one thing

Then it gets critically panned for being unoriginal, even if it’s technically better.

If he improved on my idea than his work is better and deserves more money and praise.

listen the story and art dont matter.

What matters is the creators and the product express the RIGHT opinions on things.

>>Then it gets critically panned for being unoriginal, even if it’s technically better.
>KING OF THE HILL

>FAMILY GUY PRE-CANCELLATION

>AMERICAN DAD

>ORVILLE.

YOU. ARE. FUCKING. WRONG.

If it can be done better, it should. Your rebuttal?

star wars didn't invent lasers, swords, and i doubt they invented laser swords

>"Then it gets critically panned for being unoriginal,"
heres a list of showsthat use simpson formula while still being their own thing and succseful. you have no fucking ground nigga.

ITT: youtube.com/watch?v=cCHTRyDs4RU

>>If he improved on my idea than his work is better and deserves more money and praise.
No you fucking wouldnt faggot you'd be crying like a little bitch because you're not reaping the benefits off of your idea.

Hey, faggot, i know you're 14 years old. Go google WHY copyright law exists in the first place.

None of those are Simpsons clones and the fact that you think they are proves my point completely.

Don't for get the complete ripoff of Dune that Lucas pulled.

>If he improved on my idea than his work is better and deserves more money and praise.

Wanna know how I know you've never created anything in your life?

ITS NOT YOURS.

YOU DIDNT FUCKING MAKE IT. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO IT. YOU DIDNT PUT IN THE FUCKING WORK, YOU'RE TAKING SOMEONE ELSES WORK AND PROFITING OFF IT.

Are you communist by the way, you sound like a commie.

I don’t see any arguments in these posts.

THE POINT IS THAT THEY ARENT SIMPSON CLONES YOU DUMB FUCK! HOLY SHIT. you really are a fucking thief

Attached: retard.png (387x293, 78K)

>Family Guy
>NOT a Simpsons clone

Are you stupid?

If it can be done better, it should be, your rebuttal? (You haven’t refuted this)

I don’t care about politics, I care about art.

you can try to improve upon an idea all you want
if you didn't make the original idea and didn't get permission to use it, you don't deserve to make money off of it

They are a family in a house that is a cartoon. The shows couldn’t be more different otherwise. THIS right here is the issue.

but you CAN improve upon and idea dumbass. you just arent allowed to use stories someone ELSE made.

Why shouldn’t the superior piece of art be allowed into the market?

Then you can’t improve on any idea can you? Some artistic expression is off limits, isn’t it? Some ideas are artificially locked away from improvement, isn’t that right?

because your shit isnt superior, your using someone elses ideas they made, you are barley doing any fucking work. if your shit was really so good then you wouldnt need someone elses ip to make your story.

YOU FUCKING CAN AS LONG AS YOU ARENT USING THE SAME INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY YOU FUCKING RETARD.

>stupid, fat dad
>hot, nagging wife with no job
>talented but put-upon daughter
>evil baby
>dumb son

it can, just put in the extra legwork to make it your own thing if you can't get permission to use it

>I don’t care about politics, I care about art.
Maybe research why copyright exists to begin with you fucking faggot. Tell me, why does it exist? Why does copyright exist?

>"Then you can’t improve on any idea can you?"
you can dumbass. you just aren't allowed to use someone else's show, make your own shit and improve an idea there you fucking thief.

The character archetypes are exactly the same except its more vulgar and violent, thats it.

"better" is subjective and you might be the only one in the world who thinks anything you change about a work qualifies

A person's work is their own and if you take away the ability to own your work, then you take away any incentive to be creative or original in the first place because anything you do will be meaningless. If it's any good at all, Disney will steal the idea, use their infinite money to make it "better" (IE market the shit out of it until people buy it) and leave you with nothing.

No creator makes things just for someone else to take credit for

So it can’t be done then? Your arbitrary ownership of a concept prevents it from getting any better, right?

Why would effort have anything to do with the quality of the art itself? I could smear shit on the wall with my eyelashes for 40 years and that wouldn’t make it good, now would it? Effort is correlated but not causative towards quality art. Sometimes a low effort shitpost is quality art.

letting people copy each other would just open the floodgates for people to milk other's ips which would just lead to more shitty art being created.
anyone good enough to improve a shitty idea would make their own setting characters
also keep in mind that if you were a superior artist/writer then copying someone else would actually be MORE limiting

>ITT: Live demonstration of why copyright law is important featuring dumb faggot

Literally any dumbass can claim and think that they can do "better" than the creators. Remember when OK K.O. first came out and there were several people on the internet who "fixed" Enid's design, and surprise surprise - they were all absolute ass because these people can't actually design appealing characters to save their lives? It was a total shitshow, it takes special talent to actually make these already mediocre characters look worse. Do you think they should they be allowed to steal a work and "fix" it because they're delusional enough to think that they're better?

>>So it can’t be done then? Your arbitrary ownership of a concept prevents it from getting any better, right?
>arbitrary

THEY FUCKING MADE IT ASSHOLE IT ISNT FUCKING ARBITRARY.

THEY CREATED IT.

THEY PUT IN THE FUCKING WORK TO MAKE IT. YOU DIDNT.

YOU DIDNT MAKE IT SO YOU DONT FUCKING OWN IT.

I don’t care about the law, I care about art.

But then it isn’t EVERY idea, is it? This isn’t hard to grasp.

The evils of marketing manipulation and paid critics are a wholly separate issue than the evils of limiting the ability for an artist to express themselves in any way possible.

>" I could smear shit on the wall with my eyelashes for 40 years and that wouldn’t make it good"
that wouldnt take effort either.

>Your arbitrary ownership of a concept prevents it from getting any better, right?

"Dysfunctional cartoon family in suburbia" is a concept and is free to be improved, reinterpreted, remade and reimagined all you want and has been countless times.

Homer Simpson is not a concept. He is a creation, and not your creation.

>>I don’t care about the law, I care about art.
You dont care about art because you dont care about the artist.

Advocating for ideas and properties to all be automatic public domain is corporate bootlicking which makes you a fucking faggot.

Please extensively read all of this before you respond again you insipid 14 year old dumb cunt.

copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html
newmediarights.org/business_models/artist/why_does_united_states_have_copyright_laws
newmediarights.org/business_models/artist/what_copyright_law_who_created_it_and_why_do_people_think_we_need_it
thebalancecareers.com/what-is-copyright-and-why-is-it-important-to-authors-2800060

Attached: [palpable disgust].png (337x334, 172K)

It would lead to a “survival of the fittest” in the marketplace of ideas, where the best versions would win.

If they do the same thing but shittier than they will fall to the wayside and shouldn’t be recognized.

I’m not claiming ownership. I don’t think anybody should own an idea.

Does the Matrix Reloaded freeway sequence count?

>"But then it isn’t EVERY idea, is it? This isn’t hard to grasp."
ok, listen closely you fucking inbred retard. using an idea to make something is fine, character archetypes are a thing, just cause two characters have a similar archetype doesnt mean one is a rip off of the other. what you are NOT allowed to do, is take someone elses show and "improve" it. you can take the idea and archytypes and make your own shit. but you cant use SOMEONE ELSE'S SHIT YOU DUMB FUCK.

Attached: normally i would ignore stupid shit like this,but i'll make an exception for the shit you just (890x656, 96K)

Homer Simpson can and should be done better by the most capable party willing to try.

Rebuttal?

You're clearly not a fucking artist, so your "concern" about art is completely baseless and ingenuous. Actual artists care about ownership of their creations and understand the difference between concepts and creations.

>>I’m not claiming ownership. I don’t think anybody should own an idea.
So you're a corporate bootlicker who wants Disney to completely annihilate literally everyone else who tries to make anything ever for the rest of time? Because thats what would happen.

Maybe, user, think here.

Maybe these concepts of "ownership" and "copyright" exist for a reason. A very important reason.

Think about it for a minute, WHY does it exist. Think hard, rub those two brain cells together.

nobody own an idea you fucking mongoloid, people own series's, and you cant use a series someone else fucking made.

I recognize you cannot legally, i’m saying that’s a bad thing.

Why do you have to be an artist to care about art? Do I have to be a car manufacturer to care about automobiles?

>It would lead to a “survival of the fittest” in the marketplace of ideas, where the best versions would win.

No, it would literally be "survival of the richest", which is completely inseparable to a MARKETPLACE.

>It would lead to a “survival of the fittest” in the marketplace of ideas, where the best versions would win.
this is already the case
in addition to writing your own story you also need to make your own characters from scratch

No he shouldnt because he is not a concept, he is a creation. He was created by someone and is property of the people he created it for. He's not your fucking toy.

Again, faggot, you're a corporate bootlicker who doesnt care about artists. If the world worked like you wanted, Disney would fucking kill any and all small (and large in many cases) creators, because they have more power and money and sheer workforce.

THINK.

WHY DO COPYRIGHT LAWS EXISTS, FAGGOT.

THINK ABOUT WHY.

Because people don’t want to get outclassed at their own game, so they have to set arbitrary lines in the sand of “GOT HERE FIRST”

Your body can and should be "improved" by my blind friend because he believes he is a genius with a jackhammer

Rebuttal?

homer simpson the character belongs to fox, if you fucking wanted too, you could make a character of the same archetype and make it "better" but you arent allowed to use a simpsons character for it.

>Why do you have to be an artist to care about art?
Hi, i'm an artist, you're a fucking retard and i want to keep what i own. I've been working for well over 5 years now to hone my skills and develop my creations so i can develop them into a comic property, and i'd rather some mongrel fuckhead like you keeps his hands off them.

If Disney can make the concept better, they should. Rebuttal?

Physically assaulting me is a breach of a wholly separate type of ethics.

>Why do you have to be an artist to care about art? Do I have to be a car manufacturer to care about automobiles?

You have to know how a car works and preferably own one to have any valid opinion on the subject, or else you are an uneducated peanut gallery

>>If Disney can make the concept better, they should. Rebuttal?
THEY DIDNT FUCKING CREATE IT YOU DENSE FUCKING FAGGOT.

HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY IT.

YOU DONT CREATE IT, YOU DONT FUCKING OWN IT. YOU CREATE IT, YOU OWN IT. THATS IT.

WHY SHOULDNT ARTISTS BE ENTITLED TO OWN THEIR HARD WORK?

disney wouldnt neef someone else's characters and stories to make them better, theres a fucking rebuttal.

I would understand why you would feel that way, given the choice. In a just world, if someone could do what you do better, you’d be out on the curb. Adapt or die.

It's not assault, it's an "improvement", my friend said so. Give a reason this is wrong that makes it different from "improving" anyone else's property

>I disagree with this concept
>oh that must mean you don’t understand the concept

No. I get what the law currently is, what i’m saying is it’s limiting bullshit. If Disney can do the Simpsons but better, than Fox can suck a dick.

>in a just world a giant conglomerate could steal my hard-worked idea and repacakage it as a movie with 200 fuckbillion dollars in advertising to make 30 asstillion dollars off it and also fuck me into the dirt

Yeah what a "Just World" where someone having more money than me completely ruins my life because i wanted to make a comic book.

You're a fucking moron you know that? How old are you.

its NOT limiting bullshit! you can improve ideas people made, but why do you need their characters and story to do it? cause your to fucking lazy to make your own?

Tangible vs intangible good. I also don’t recognize ideas as property. You can’t own a thought, or else we’ve been stealing since the moment we were born.

HOW IS IT FUCKING LIMITING YOU DENSE FUCKING FAGGOT?

NOBODY IS STOPPING YOU FROM MAKING THE SIMPSONS BUT BETTER, ALL THEY WANT IS FOR YOU NOT TO CALL THEM THE SIMPSONS OR MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE THE SIMPSONS, OR HAVE THE SAME VOICES AS THE SIMPSONS THATS IT. HOLY FUCK.

>If Disney can make the concept better, they should

They don't need to make it better, in fact, they can actually make it much worse and still steamroll all the "better" versions with sheer financial momentum. You cannot say this is a "separate" issue because you are literally talking about money and a marketplace that already exists. You don't get to reject reality for your argument

>I also don’t recognize ideas as property
So you dont own your brain? Is that what you're saying, faggot?

>it’s not limiting
>besides X limitations
So it’s limiting?

if you think your take on him is honestly better than anything the current writing staff can offer, pitch it to fox and see if they'd let you do it
if they don't take it, then it's either not good or not worth making it for a character owned by idiots

ITS NOT YOURS.

YOU DIDNT COME UP WITH IT.

My brain is a tangible part of my body that I own. The thoughts within it are intangible and not owned by me.

>I also don’t recognize ideas as property.

That's probably because you've never had one

Attached: 1552432458782.png (341x341, 268K)

infinity-x is less limiting than x, you realize that right?

if you think not being able to use someone else's show for your own uses is 'limiting" then you have no good ideas.

Your thoughts are electrical patterns which are coded onto electrons firing off of atoms so yes they are tangible.

How old are you, stupid bitch. Answer my quesiton.

Well sure I did. Tweaked homer is solely my (theoretical) idea.

No it isnt. It isnt "Solely" yours because its literally just taking someone elses character. Learn what words mean faggot. How old are you.

I don’t answer personal questions on Yea Forums. I will say, however that the guesses ITT are far from the truth.

homer is not your idea, you tweaked someone else's idea. how is this so hard to comprehend.

How old are you faggot.

Answer the question. I'll tell you hod old i am, i'm about 22, how old are you. Tell me.

X is not Y
Correct?

You can cut a number into infinitely small pieces, and each piece is wholly unique, isn’t that right?

you can't own a thought, but you can own a published work

im 18, answer anons question.

Art isnt algebra you fucking degenerate. How old are you.

I’m older than you.

What you all fail to understand is I know what you mean, I just disagree. Homer +1 is not Homer. He’s Homer +1.

>Copyright law removed
>every single piece of narrative media is Batman or GoT with color filters
>every new piece of music created is a remix of Thriller

>"Homer +1 is not Homer. He’s Homer +1."
no, hes homer that you've rewritten. its still the same fucking character, its not fucking new and original at all.

>>I’m older than you.
No, you're not. Answer my question.

>Homer +1 is not Homer. He’s Homer +1.
Art isnt algebra you dumb fucking degenerate.

So then someone comes along and makes Homer + 2, and before you know it every cartoon is now Homer + some arbitrary tweak

And this is how you think art will evolve? Have you seen how stale and stagnant Hollywood has become since remakes have become trendy? And there is NO competition rising up to challenge it and bring something new to the table, because the monopoly they have on the film industry cannot be challenged no matter how "good" anything is.

If he's been improved, he is a unique concept.

I've already answered enough. I am of age, this is not a kid with a crazy idea. I am an adult.

It is an analogy, dingus.

If Homer +2 is better than Homer +1, he deserves to exist and furthermore be the definitive Homer.

If you are older than 14 and still have these ideas, then you are most definitely on the spectrum

Attached: 1540328605389.png (334x483, 208K)

>If he's been improved, he is a unique concept.
not at all

>"If he's been improved, he is a unique concept."
no he isnt, its still the same character, you just slightly tweaked the personality. its not a new and unique idea you fucking commie.

>>It is an analogy, dingus.
An analogy that doesnt work because Art and Math are two entirely different fucking things entirely you dumb fucking middle schooler.

You dont know what half the words you're using even mean. Dont get held behind next time, maybe your parents wont drink so much.

>If Homer +2 is better than Homer +1, he deserves to exist and furthermore be the definitive Homer.

Address the rest of the post. You claim to care about art, but what you are proposing would utterly destroy it

>"If Homer +2 is better than Homer +1,"
by who's standard?

i like how the people who whine about copyright keeping them from making a "superior version" of a character are too insecure to actually pitch it or too unoriginal to just make a better character

>>I've already answered enough. I am of age, this is not a kid with a crazy idea. I am an adult.
No you're not, how old are you. You're not an adult.

I can clearly see that you're lying so just tell the truth.

Tip tip typing away, faggot?

I am undiagnosed but I would agree with you assessment.

Of course he is. Is a tree that grows taller beholden to a smaller tree that came first? No. It's a singular tree, improved via conditioning factors.

No arguments, just anger.

I disagree.

The marketplace of ideas.

You've already made up your mind, so even if I told you it would be pointless.

I didn't expect to get so many replies, but people get emotional about this kind of thing.

why does your "idea" need homer to work? why cant you make your own character and story? why do you NEED to use a character someone else made instead of making something original? you never adress any of these questions.

>I disagree.

Not a fucking argument. You have lost.

Reread these posts to understand why your ideas are wrong and inconsistent with your claimed care for art

Attached: 1549402399897.jpg (455x341, 18K)

your analogies are terrible

two trees are diffferent entities faggot, YOUR talking about taking an existing IP and "improving" it instead of making your own. once again you analogies fall flat.

>>I disagree.
No, you dumb 14 year old retard, here i'm the artist again from earlier and let me just explain to you very succinctly why you're retarded.

Art and the Artist are one and the same, you cannot have one without the other. To serve art, you need to serve the artist. REMOVING the right to ownership from the artist just makes them exploitable by corporations which destroys creative liberty which destroys the drive to create art which destroys the drive to innovate art which destroys any push for originality which destroys everything in entertainment you love and enjoy and want to "improve".

Your bullshit would fundamentally destroy art. It would entirely be run by megacorporations pushing the same IP over and over and over again like a self-sufficient logic machine completely run amok.

You. Are. A. Fucking. Idiot. You're a retard. You dont know a single god damn thing about what you're talking about and this entire conversation is a fucking demonstration of the importance of copyright law, the concept of ownership, and why we need those things. Because of faggots like you who would cripple artistic expression and creative freedom in an "attempt" to "further" artistic expression and creative freedom.

You cannot have boundlessness because you fall into the void and die. You need boundaries and limitations because it prevents certain fundamental components of group-human dynamics from abusing these things and utterly FUCKING RUINING THEM.

YOU

FUCKING

RETARD

Attached: hhh.gif (330x166, 2.24M)

if you make a story with someone else's ideas you are limiting yourself to something premade
while if you made your own settings,and characters you have an infinite number of possibilities to choose from why would you want to limit yourself more?

This is theoretical of course, let's address that first. Why does art have to be necessary to exist? Why are you telling me what I can and can't create?

I understand the idea of the capitalistic society we live in and the necessity of copyright law in that paradigm. Once again, this isn't an issue of comprehension on my part, I simply disagree. If you refer to my original post, I make it clear that I wish it was different, not that it was already different.

The Homer Simpson in my mind is not the same Homer Simpson as the Homer Simpson in your mind.

I understand why you would feel that way, given the choice. I disagree.

Evolution is the most natural form of creation possible. It's a perfect analogy.

you aren't talking about two different trees, by the way
you're basically talking about a branch, only when too many branches grow too big (as they would in this scenario) then they would end up toppling the tree

>>I understand why you would feel that way, given the choice. I disagree.
NO RETARD THERE IS NO DISAGREEING, I AM TELLING YOU OUTRIGHT WHAT WOULD FUCKING HAPPEN. BECAUSE IT USED TO HAPPEN.

ALL THE TIME.

ITS LITERALLY THE REASON COPYRIGHT LAW EXISTS.

I disagree that the artist matters. Only the art matters. If the artist cannot produce the best idea, than he is an evolutionary dead end.

>"The Homer Simpson in my mind is not the same Homer Simpson as the Homer Simpson in your mind."
homer simpson is homer simpson.
>"let's address that first. Why does art have to be necessary to exist? Why are you telling me what I can and can't create?"
AND ONCE AGAIN YOU DONT ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION! WHY DO YOU NEED SOMEONE ELSE'S SHIT TO MAKE YOUR OWN STORY?

Attached: Screenshot (100).png (260x412, 109K)

YOU CANT FUCKING HAVE ART WITHOUT THE FUCKING ARTIST.

HOW DO YOU MAKE ART WITHOUT AN ARTIST?

ART IS PRODUCED BY AN ARTIST, IT IS AN EXTENSION OF THE ARTIST AND WHO THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY ENJOY. WITHOUT AN ARTIST THERE CAN BE NO ART.

>>Evolution is the most natural form of creation possible. It's a perfect analogy.
Its not in any respect a good analogy because they're two different trees.

What IS a good analogy is me stealing your car and painting it hot pink. Thats what you're saying, and thats a perfect analogy. Prove me wrong faggot.

Art is not about necessity. What comes, comes. I reiterate, My Homer Simpson and your Homer Simpson are not the same.

artists are expendable, art is not. If the artist cannot produce art that is worthy of survival, than he should stop being an artist.

When something evolves, they are two separate entities. You are the one arbitrarily deciding the delineation between what is and isn't a separate thought. It's kind of frightening that you think this, actually.

i made sure too screenshot this whole fucking mess, im gonna make a whole edit this shit in the future so everyone can see how retarded this "idea" is

So long as you accurately portray my whole discussion, you have my consent. Not that it matters on Yea Forums, but I believe, as i've stated, the marketplace of ideas decides what is and isn't a good idea. Just like art.

HOMER SIMPSON. IS HOMER SIMPSON. CHANGING A SINGLE TRAIT OF THE CHARACTER DOESN'T MAKE IT A NEW AND ORIGINAL CHARACTER.

>artists are expendable, art is not
FUCKER ART IS AN EXTENSION OF AN ARTIST YOU CANNOT HAVE ART WITHOUT THE FUCKING ARTIST.

LISTEN YOU SPERGY FUCKHEAD THIS ISNT GOD DAMN ARITHMATIC ITS NOT ALGEBRA ITS NOT QUANTUM FUCKING PHYSICS, ITS ART. ITS NOT A GOD DAMN SYSTEM. YOU'RE WRONG.

YOU.

ARE.

WRONG.

YOU CANT FUCKING ARGUE WITH ME ON THIS, YOU ARE WRONG. OBJECTIVELY, FACTUALLY WRONG IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD.

JUST FUCKING ADMIT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND AND STOP BECAUSE YOU ARE

>W R O N G
>R
>O
>N
>G

IF YOU DONT CARE ABOUT THE ARTIST, YOU AUTOMATICALLY DO NOT CARE ABOUT ART.

THERE IS NO ARGUING WITH THAT, THATS JUST WHAT IT FUCKING IS. ART AND ARTISTS ARE ONE AND THE SAME.

Attached: fuck.png (286x439, 226K)

This is the most autistic OP I have encountered. He is imagining some fantasy world where people are free to swipe every creation, and somehow this doesn't end up with the richest or most powerful holding a literal monopoly over all entertainment and rehashing the same thing over and over forever, stamping down all competition and destroying art forever

This is literally why communism doesn't work, it can only exist in fairytale land where human nature doesn't factor in

Attached: 1554540669110.gif (302x302, 2.39M)

>the marketplace of ideas decides what is and isn't a good idea. Just like art.

Maybe that's why your idea has been rejected by reality, as evidenced by copyright law

oh, dont fucking worry, i FULLY intend on showing EVERY post, so people can not only see how retarded your "ideas" are, but also how thoroughly BTFO you were.

>user is self-admitted autistic
>doesnt care about copyright
>wants to take Homer and make "Homer +1" which makes it his

Did...

Did we just discover the root cause of why Sonic OC's exist?

Attached: tenor (1).gif (288x204, 1.62M)

Why? Where is the line, Mr. art police?

I fundamentally disagree, though as an artist I can see how that would be comforting.

If the megacorps can create the best art, then they deserve to own art.

Once again, i've made a clear distinction from what I want, and what is.

Good. Thank you.

Actually, yes. OC's and the "fan creation" community is all about the recycling of ideas in new and interesting ways. The vaporwave movement is a similar idea.

>>I fundamentally disagree, though as an artist I can see how that would be comforting.
NO YOU SON OF A BITCH YOU CANT DISAGREE, YOU ARE WRONG.

THIS ISNT A MATTER OF OPINION, YOU ARE INCORRECT. WRONG. MISGUIDED. ILL INFORMED, A FOOL. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.

WRONG.

YOU ARE FUCKING WRONG. YOU CANT ARGUE THIS OR DISAGREE WITH THIS BECAUSE YOU ARE FUCKING WRONG.

2 + 2 = 3 IS WRONG, AND SO IS THIS. THEY ARE BOTH EXACTLY THE SAME AMOUNT OF WRONG.

YOU.

ARE.

FUCKING.

W R O N G.

Attached: nonsense bullshit.gif (245x246, 1.93M)

>If the megacorps can create the best art, then they deserve to own art.

So you define "best art" by "most marketing money" then?

homer simpson will always be homer simpson
you can say it's a different character, but if you're using him then he will always be the same homer simpson as the one someone else is making

what you can do is take the general archetype and change it around to do something more lowbrow (peter griffin), something more relateable to a different demographic (hank hill), and even go so far as to someone subvert it (walter white), but if you just do the same then it's going to be the same

>If the megacorps can create the best art, then they deserve to own art.
your problem there is that not only will they probably not make the best version, but they'll see to it that they're making the only version

>"Where is the line, Mr. art police?"
you literally describe your theoretical "new" character as homer +1, rather than a new character completely, with a different name, life story, background, family, etc.

even if bait this is the strongest autism i've witnessed in a while

at least sonic oc's are mostly different from the canon characters, unlike what you fucking want.

Attached: file.png (567x561, 328K)

>Actually, yes. OC's and the "fan creation" community is all about the recycling of ideas in new and interesting ways.

>new and interesting ways.

There's a reason these things are ridiculed by everyone except their community.

Someone screencap this

dont worry, i am. the whole damn thing. its gonna take ages to edit together.

>2 + 2 = 3
Weren't you the one going off on how art isn't a math problem? :^)

But no, I disagree, and no amount of anger on your part can change that.

Of course not.

>Homer will be Homer
of course, but Homer adjacent is not.

>they'll make the only version
Once again, i'm not arguing against how the world works, I fully understand how the world works. I'm merely explaining how I wished the world worked, and how natural selection would be good for ideas and art.

And?

I want every idea to be on the table, no matter how close or how far from anything else.

Most ideas are bad, and deserve ridicule. That has nothing to do with the idea of freedom of thought and artistic expression.

>>Weren't you the one going off on how art isn't a math problem? :^)
Listen you autistic fuck, theres a difference between an analogy of "art is math" and "wrong is wrong".

>But no, I disagree, and no amount of anger on your part can change that.
HOW.

HOW CAN YOU DISAGREE.

YOU ARE WRONG, SO HOW CAN YOU FUCKING DISAGREE. ARE YOU TERRENCE FUCKING HOWARD?

>Your bullshit would fundamentally destroy art. It would entirely be run by megacorporations pushing the same IP over and over and over again like a self-sufficient logic machine completely run amok.
You mean like it is right now?

>"and?"
you have no rebuttel, it isnt an oc, its just homer]
homer adjacent is still fucking homer.

Attached: 1563498394582.gif (275x206, 1.7M)

>artists are expendable, art is not

So... where are you going to get art from? Do you think that if the creator of your favorite piece of art never made it, that eventually someone else would have?

It's not bait. I'm not "bel-airing" you at the end. This is real.

I disagree that i'm wrong.

At least theres some measure of fucking control right now. Imagine if all of media were just the fucking Lion King remake again and again and again and again and again. Thats all media is, just the Lion King remake, forever.

i have over 70 screencaps at this point, fuck me.

>>I disagree that i'm wrong.
HOW.

EXPLAIN FUCKING HOW.

Attached: Annoyed Godzilla.png (675x696, 237K)

>"i disagree that im wrong"
you have the mindset of a child

Attached: 1535501923529.jpg (500x280, 40K)

I accept your surrender

>nearly half the thread is people demolishing a single retard

Attached: 1563374249835.gif (242x270, 1.38M)

no, you have no argument, hence:
and?

Monkeys on typewriters.

Sorry user. May your hard work pay off in the next screencap thread. I hope to be posted next to tilebro.

Ideas are there to be taken, they are not unique. Existence exists beyond the perception of the individual. Art requires AN artist, but not a SPECIFIC artist.

That is not an argument.

Except noone would watch any of that because they'd quickly get tired of seeing the exact same thing over and over again. There's a reason Disney waited so long to remake the film.

And speaking of the Lion King, it totally did steal scenes from Kimba so there's an example for OP that is stealing.

>Ideas are there to be taken, they are not unique. Existence exists beyond the perception of the individual. Art requires AN artist, but not a SPECIFIC artist.

So where the fuck do you expect ideas to come from retard, the aether?

Hey, commie dipshit, newsflash: People wont work without incentive. You rob ownership from an artist, or any form of intellectual property compensation, and you kill art. Thats all there is to it.

ive already explained how your homer +1 is still just homer. you have no argument of how it is different outside of
>"he has hair now and that means its an original character!"

I am not a communist, I do not subscribe to any form of politics. Politics do not interest me.

I disagree with your assessment.

I didnt mean literally "Lion King" as in just Lion King but as an example. Disney takes public domain things and just milks them into the dirt. Thats all art would be without copyright. Nonstop milking.

You sound like a commie and as an artist, though i dont like bringing a card like this up, i think i know at least a little fucking more about this than you do.

>I disagree with your assessment.
you disagree with reality, without incentive people will not work. you are fucking delusional.

"I disagree" is not a refutation, an argument, or even a point

I don't believe you've done so. You have expressed your opinion, but you have not explained WHY that line is where it is. Just THAT it is. I disagree.

Whatever it is I "sound like" is irrelevant. I would agree as a creative you do have a unique and valuable perspective in the discussion from me. However I would argue also a conflict of interest. As a consumer of art I have my own perspective.

It is when the proposition is an opinion.

>As a consumer of art I have my own perspective.
>
As a consumer you need to shut the fuck up because you dont make the art so stop telling me what i should and shouldnt own you fucking idiot.

>It is when the proposition is an opinion.

And your opinion has universally been agreed to be worthless through actual arguments and reasoning, which you have failed to use

Wait. The anime she was ripping off was made by a woman and Japanese women have penned quite a few great manga.
Do you have an excuse for that too or are just foreign women capable of doing their own thing?

>As a consumer of art I have my own perspective.

As a consumer you are working against your own interest because there will be nothing new for you to consume

I disagree.

I understand why you feel that way, but that's not relevant to the discussion.

>"i dont believe you proved me wrong, therefore i win"
you live in fucking lala land, whats it like being surrounded by fairies and dragons? you have no legs to stand on you actual autist.

I think this thread is done. The sperg is just talking in circles now

Attached: 1337668996645.jpg (635x477, 31K)

Of course there would be. People would still create.

If your opinion is simply "you're wrong" than all I can say is I disagree.

as a consumer as well i think your fucking retarded.

If anons are going to repeat themselves than I will do the same.

That's your right. I disagree.

>"If your opinion is simply "you're wrong" than all I can say is I disagree."
BUT THATS ALL YOUR DOING! ALL YOUR SAYING IS "your wrong" AND "i disagree" YOU HAVE MADE NO ARGUMENTS! YOU HAVE NO SELF AWARNESS!

You are allowed to disagree with me, i'm not the one arguing that you can't have your opinion on my ideas about natural selection in the field of ideas.

have you ever thought that maybe the reason anons are repeating themselves is cause you are putting forth literally no arguments and saying the same shit over and over?

>homage
When you recognize where it's coming from and it's clearly meant to be recognized as a reference to something that's become pop culture or have cult followings.

>stealing
Trying to hide the source material, denying that the two things look alike, claiming it's a coincidence and taking full credit for the idea(s).

A lot of cartoons lately pay homage to anime but with OPs gif it feels very lazy because all they did was copy a fight scene from a popular anime. There are much more clever and interesting ways to reference something than just straight up recreating a scene.

Attached: 1423449619126.jpg (764x720, 201K)

meant for

>Of course there would be. People would still create

No, they wouldn't. I am a creator and if there was any chance my creations could be taken from me wholesale and "improved", I would not bother. This is a universal trait of a creator and why you have to be one to understand art. If DaVinci did not receive patronage for his ideas and creations, he would not have made them and the world would be without his works and genius. Nobody creates just to add something to the aether for someone else to profit from.

The "monkeys on typewriters" idea is a mathematical fantasy with zero basis in reality, like your idea.

I've already laid out the core of my idea. If anyone wants to ask a question or present a fact relevant to the idea, i'd love to address it. If all they want to do is say "you are wrong" then all I can say is "I disagree"

the problem is that your "opinions" blatantly clash with reality and we can see easily why they wouldnt work, opinions dont mean shit when disscussing facts. your opinions dont make facts invalid.

>>I understand why you feel that way, but that's not relevant to the discussion.
>spends the entire thread arguing artists shouldnt be "limited" by copyright law
>argues with the artist who tells him why thats retarded that him being an artist doesnt factor into this discussion

Attached: file.png (931x843, 192K)

>" If anyone wants to ask a question or present a fact relevant to the idea, i'd love to address it. "
THEY ALREADY HAVE! AND ALL YOUR RESPONSES ARE JUST
>"your wrong"
>"i disagree"
EVERYINE HAS ALREADY DEMONSTRATED WITH FACTS WHY YOUR IDEAS DONT WORK!
YOU.DENSE.FUCK!

What if it actually is a coincidence like Jake Long/Juniper Lee or the two Dennis the Menaces?

I said people, I didn't say you. Perhaps you specifically would not create under these circumstances, but others would.

>Nobody creates just to add something to the aether for someone else to profit from

What is the modding community? Fan translation community? Subbing community? freeware community? FOSS community?

My opinion, as stated above, is simply a wish. I am not proposing an actual description of reality. I've made this very clear.

AN artist is not my concern.

I disagree.

Dennis the Menace was a coincidence?

Anyway, that's enough for today. Thread is almost dead. Thank you for the discussion, it was enjoyable. I've been lurking Yea Forums for many years, posting daily and it's always something new. See you around frens.

>>AN artist is not my concern.
So who is your concern, retard? Disney?

All you'd do is hurt artists by doing this. I, an artist, am telling you this. Go to fucking /ic/ and ask them if you want. Go to the fucking drawthred, or Hows Your Webcomic thread. Ask them too. In fact i'll do that right now. SCREENCAP GUY, GO IN THEM AND TAKE SOME THERE TOO.

>"i disagree"
>disagreeing with something you can read in the posts
you have conceded defeat, you have nothing, you cant actually tell me how im wrong.

Attached: 1538418926928.gif (600x450, 89K)

What does the thread question have to do with OP?

>"i disagree that i have been proven wrong"

Attached: 1544682272202.png (757x1200, 1.21M)

>but others would.
Prove it. You are a not a creator, self admitted, yet you deign to tell at least two actual artists in this thread what they would or would not do?

>What is the modding community? Fan translation community? Subbing community? freeware community? FOSS community?
Thieves, mostly. Mods are not new creations, translations are not a creative endeavor at all (why would you even use that?), "freeware" is usually either funded by ad revenue or used as a basis for actual paid software

When creators stop creating, there will be nothing left for thieves like the above to steal or "improve".

Yes, 1 made in the US and 1 in the UK.

>Thieves, mostly. Mods are not new creations, translations are not a creative endeavor at all (why would you even use that
Hell, i'm one of the actual artists here, i started with Gmod modding and i moved away from that specifically because i started getting original ideas for shit and wanted to pursue a career in that kind of thing.

>halfway through thread gets completely derailed with no survivors by a retard who lives in a fantasy world and doesnt know how reality works

Attached: 1563460970372.jpg (278x251, 37K)

I feel like we may have just made first contact with an alien civilization and we didn’t even know it.

Attached: 86DD9C4A-415C-40C9-B972-2D46F77DBBFF.png (667x670, 430K)

fuck anons. i have exactly 101 screencaps to be edited. cutting out repeats and putting it all together. this is suffering.

Attached: 1546194578129.gif (221x196, 410K)