When you first read it, what did you think?

When you first read it, what did you think?

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The art was great. Rorschach, Ozzy, Manhattan are cool. Specter and Owl are lame. The 35 minutes ago twist was awesome. Now reading it I like Owl and Specter more and Rorschach and Ozzy less. The art is even better when you start noticing all the tiny details and foreshadowing. (ex chapter 5 mirrored panels.)

I read it not expecting anything. I went in cold. I remember the more I read, the more I felt that I was missing something (I read it five times after that, and every time I'd find so much foreshadowing and details in the background. I was shocked that I hadn't seen it). I liked most of the characters, except Laurie. I still don't like Laurie much, personally. The second Rorschach colored the snow, I punched my pillow and cried a bit, like the faggot I am.

>what a stupid ending

I actually read Watchmen before I started reading comics (even though I'm still very new to comics in general). The only comic series I had read before it was Scott Pilgrim, and so when I picked up Watchmen, I thought it was gonna be like, a new, hip superhero team. I was admittedly wrong, but holy fuck did I love the fuck outta it.

Top 3 is Comedian, Rorshach, and Manhattan when it comes to personality and character. The others seem a little underdeveloped and I didn't really get the whole romance subplot with Specter and Owl on my first go-around.

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I remember not liking the romantic subplot either. I guess I'd have to re read it to see if I still don't appreciate it. It was definitely helpful, without Laurie Dan wouldn't have gone to get Ror out of jail. That being said, I remember really liked the idea of Ror and Nite Owl teaming up and fighting crime. Didn't see much of it, but it was a fun idea.

>that’s part where Nite Owl immediately bangs Laurie in public right after seeing Rorschach get killed

The film made it better by not doing that

> "wow! That was kinda hot!"

Yeah the fucking wasn't necessary, but it really brought in front how fucked (ha) they both were now that they had sworn not to say anything. It reminds me of the people that would fuck from shock after 9/11

Cool colors

I remember thinking “wow the movie turning the giant space monster into a nuke made a lot more sense”

I really hope you have since realized the errors of your ways.

The Rorshach chapters are some of the most kino pieces of a comic ever written.

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Nope, still think the movie is great

I was blown away how realistic the world and superheroes were.
The art was oldschool and perfect. It felt like a history book.

>spectre and nowl
They are a little bit off, thats because both represent the more normal person.
Maybe the inverted she strong, he weak plus the part of romance part is a big difference to the rest and tips you off.

Laurie is an important plot mover. But you see the detail moore and gibbons had, besides you need her for manhatten and nite owls human relationship. Or her importance for Comedian. But still you get enough informations about her character and her emotions.

I agree, it was unfitting and could have been displayed differently.
But it is a Moore signature move. It involves sex situations in awkward moments just to show sex.

When I first read it, the pure text parts and the pirate comic bored me so badly that I'd have to take breaks every few paragraphs. It was just way too jarring after the really fluid pace of the comic book panels. I appreciate how important they are for world building and to flesh out the themes of the story now that I'm older, but their implementation still comes across as a little clumsy.

I was kind of bummed out by Rorschach's death, but I was genuinely upset when Hollis died just because some angry punks wanted to take out their frustrations on a helpless old man.

Then you're as much a piece of shit as the movie. But there's still hope for you, user. You can still change.

I agree. It is a little bit pretendious to write a literate analogy of humanity and that everyone could be pushed over the edge.

>The pirate shit was boring

Read Watchmen again, but this time keep in mind that the pirate sequences are an allegory for Ozymandias.

No he has a fair point. From logistic the manhatten bomb is more realistic. It would function as an alternate ending.
The only superior thing is that this horrific space squid is so horryfing and over the top it fits so well with adrians ambitious plan.
I lke both endings.

You're missing the point, and the point of these two characters and their relationship.

One of the underlying ideas in the book is the sexual motivation underlying these vigilantes. Dan, for example, is sexually impotent until he gets back in costume, and doesn't get his libido back until his victory in a fight, as we see in the airship scene.

But another important theme is the importance of real human relationships in the face of all the great and terrible things happening in the world, and that's the point of the final sex scene. These are, ultimately, just two sad, lonely, damaged people finding solace in each other after uncovering a terrible horror.

This is why Watchmen was praised so much when it came out and why it continues to be praised to this day, because it's so layered and looks deeply at actual human motivations.

No. The problem with the changed ending is that Adrian's plan is to create an external enemy that all of the world can unite against. Dr. Manhattan can never be that enemy, because for so long he was America's weapon that America used to bully the world. It's captured in lines like this:

>I never said, "The superman exists, and he's American." What I said was,"God exists, and he's American." If that statement starts to chill you after a couple of moments' consideration, then don't be alarmed. A feeling of intense and crushing religious terror at the concept indicates only that you are still sane.

The world might be forced to unite if they think Manhattan has gone rogue, but the rest of the world is never going to forget that it's America's dog that got off the leash. It has to be an alien menace to work.

That it was the only comic I had ever read that actually had good writing. Not great but good.

Still think that. Have read a few other Moores and they're pretty meh. Morrison's stuff is garbage. Everything else is just franchising.

You're wrong and a plen idiot, but have you tried From Hell if it's the cape aspect that's throwing you off?

Pretty good overall. I was too young to have been spoiled on it by the Internet, so the ending hit me like a ton of bricks.

To this day I have zero intention of watching the movie.

The text part is really too long. The shorter imbedded in art is much easier. Another Moore signature move. He needs to show that he is a writer and can literature.

A little bit shorter text and not so stretched pirate parts would have been better. Reminded me of a fantasy comedy book were a fictive dragon writer talks about a famous novel that tries to be boring and stretched for art and to make a point.

>reading hard!

Good post, i understand this.

"That Kovacs guy really looks like Cletus Kasady!"

"What a boring comic. Why everybody keeps telling me its great?"

"This psychologist is so dumb. He acts like he has never met a crazy person before."

"Why is everybody so god damn weak?"

"Manhattan again? Boring."

"I can't really understand, but there's lots of politics in it and people say like that's what make it good. I disagree."

"Cool pirate part. I'd rather skip the boring parts and just read his parts."

"That's a lot of effort just to make people believe in aliens."

"Dull ending."

Basically everybody is so sad, so bored and so fucking gross in this book. Most of the plans are ludicrous and sound like something they didn't think much about. The art makes it feel realistic in a way that ridicules superheroes with flamboyant costumes and alter egos.

Not a single character in this book is moved by some heroic ideal. Its a book of a supervillain and a lot of weak, normal sad people in funny clothes with nothing super about them. Even the superpowered one acts like a sad nerd.

3/10.

That's a lot of work for such low-quality bait.

I enjoyed the comic a lot but I hated the ending when I first read it. I appreciate it more now, but I still don't like that Dan fucked off to have abrupt floor sex during Rorschach's death scene, and that they felt that Veidt had to live in order to protect the secret when they should have buried him six feet under with everyone else that he killed to protect the truth.

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While an alien is good to unite everyone, manhatten still makes sense.
Its a little bit unusual that manhatten would react that way that quick. But it has the notion of the own weapon suddenly turns against oneself.
Quite an interesting alternate ending.
And the supermen-angst is believable. Especially since Moore already established a possible groundwork with Adrians plot to drive manhatten away. You could pose it as leaving earth defensless, like moore wrote, or that it angered manhatten to turn against earth.

If you dont understand that you can write long text too stretched or write it that it isnt tedious, than you come to your conclusion.

How can you have read the comic and write this comment?

What exactly was Dan going to do? Put Veidt six feet under? Veidt mopped the floor with him when Dan confronted him and was ready and willing to kill Dan if necessary.

Dan made the only choice he really could: he saw that this was too big and chose to go and try live what semblance of a normal life he could.

You're asking for the cliche comicbook ending. The entire point of Watchmen is to look critically at that.

If you look up, you'll see the point sailing over your head.

Let's try again: Manhattan was America's dog. No one will ever forget that. That America seemingly lost control of it isn't going to erase that fact. Manhattan can, inherently, never be an external threat to the world because he's so closely tied to one nation. The Soviets might work with America out of necessity and fear over Manhattan, but they will always do so grudgingly with the knowledge that Manhattan is America's fuck-up.

You just didn't understand what the pirate chapters were meant to convey and achieve. That's on you. Sorry Moore didn't provide a short list of bullet points or made you read text longer than a Tweet.

All of the whining in this thread comes from social media making people so fucking stupid. They have simply lost the ability to read anything longer than a sentence or two.

>my feet hurt

"Look critically" as in "deconstruct every aspect of a true hero and make it about ordinary people pretending"

And by "ordinary", I mean not "without superpowers", but with this weak-willed personality.

I mean, if THOSE PEOPLE are the best in that world, the ones brave enough to do what commoners couldn't, I begin to understand why a homeless, hungry, delusional sonuvabitch could intimidate somebody and still walk slowly in the streets with his mask on.

>They dont kill Ozy
Owl is not a killer, Spectre will not because of Owl and manhatten doesnt care. Besides Ozy is the most passional to hide the secret.

If Jonathan didn't care, why did he killed Rorschach?

>I mean, if THOSE PEOPLE are the best in that world, the ones brave enough to do what commoners couldn't

Here's a free hint that might help you with Watchmen: it's an explicit statement that the kind of people who would be drawn to being self-appointed vigilantes are not "the best in that world", and that their vigilantism isn't a noble calling elevating them above "the commoners".

And this is the reason why you think there is a point flying over my head, you cant understand things in its entirety.

Thats why manhatten attacks every city. Its more a humanity versus a mad god situation in the movie.

When Hollis died, I was on board with Nite Owl on just snapping the katies neck in the bar.

America's "mad god". You're too stupid to continue this discussion.

That's what I said. (I'm third poster) I guess I just feel uncomfortable with sex in general. But that's obviously my own issue.

What the fuck are you on about, mate?

Yeah, like i wrote here .
You seem to dont undestand that someone can criticise the presentation or how well it is and not the inside.

It seems you are if this is your only argument. And you consider this an adult reaction.

That the movie ending was not the elegantest one, but has an interesting different point. And you can slightly alter Moores to lay groundwork for this conclusion.

He was told to by Rorschach himself.

I was I think 13-14 when I first read it, and my first takeaway was predictably edgy and shallow, thinking "dude, that's right, superheroes are GAY and UNREALISTIC!!!". This kicked off a phase for me in which I thought I was super smart and special for not liking superhero comics and reading stuff that was edgier, mostly Vertigo stuff. It's ironic that I considered it such high art without really paying attention to the characterization, the storytelling, and not even the art. I can honestly say that a huge part of the reason I considered it such a masterpiece is simply because other people told me it was.

I also didn't know shit about comics history, especially not DC, so I missed a lot of the elements that I now find some of the most interesting, those being how it weaves in a lot of real comics history and references to things like legacies to create its own very unique universe.

Equally retarded was a little after All-Star Superman and the Batman: The Brave and the Bold cartoon came out, I did the complete opposite and panned the comic as edgy, pretentious garbage, and thought I was super smart and special for hating Watchmen and anything that tried to be deeper or more realistic whatsoever.

I eventually finally grew up a little and as I came to understand the actual artistic merit of the story and art more, as well as get a deeper understanding of comics history and the context that the original comic came out in, I finally was able to parse what the comic was about and now once again appreciate it as a masterpiece that is not as much critical of superheroes as it is of our own world and why superheroes are perhaps too good for it. It feels less like it's making an argument or an indictment, and more like it's simply showing us an interpretation and asking us to make our own conclusions.

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>I still don't like that Dan fucked off to have abrupt floor sex during Rorschach's death scene
He didn't know Rorschach was about to die, he figured (like everyone else) that he'd make it to Archie and maybe just hang in there until Dan showed up to pilot the ship. He figured it was a "eh, he's angry right now but he'll calm later, I've seen it before" kind of thing.

The sex part was mostly instigated by Laurie's desire to celebrate life after seeing so much death

Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing is probably my favorite thing he's ever done.

Enjoyed it but thought it was absurdly overrated.

the film makes no sense, none of the altered plot works.
Manhattan's powers work in a way that lets him synthesise any substance. In the comic he creates an endless supply of lithium batteries and all of America has clean, renewable energy.

In the movie, Adrian's plan to frame Jon hinges on their joint project to solve a fuel crisis that should not exist. He can duplicate himself, he can create breathable air on command but he can't figure out how to produce fuel? And it goes without saying that Manhattan killing millions of people wouldn't bring any nation closer to America, it would only hate them more. Being attacked themselves doesn't absolve them of the crime of creating him.

It blew my mind, and I didn't half grasp it. It never put me off reading cape comics (that came later, naturally), but it it did set the bar high. I thought Rorschach was cool as hell, the book as a whole was depressing, and the interplay between panels was cool and interesting. I think I skipped some pages of text. Several hundreds of comics later, and after a couple of re-reads, it's one of my favorite comics of all time. I haven't come across a cape comic as entirely good as this one and I don't think it exists.

It gets storytimed here occasionally. Those threads usually end up turning into discussion threads. Some of them have been pretty fun and it's interesting to see how other people are pulling different interpretations out of the same material.

It's been so long that I can only go off of vague impressions. But I must have thought it was amazing, as I even read the story-parts at the end of the chapters and loved how it all came together.

The episode where the plan is enacted was amazing, the visuals.

Fair points. But i also thought we talk about the ending.
Sure it would bring them closer, my enemy of my enemy is my friend. And sure its not a automatic "we friends now", its still a hypothetic or fictional writing.
But you could argue its the same way in the books, why should i ban together with america and not make peace with the aliens? And maybe get new technology to win the cold war?
Moores ending is still the more realistic one, i wont put the movie on a higher podest. But i see that its a ending with a complete asspull.

I enjoyed it. Only part I didnt like was the curse of the black freighter. Other than that it was a good read. watchmen #4 is the best single issue ever written though

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I hated it. I read it after reading Squadron Supreme, The Authority, Miracle Man, and the beginning of The Boys. I was just so burnt out on DEEPLY FLAWED "HEROES" ARE ACTUALLY THE BAD GUYS.

Understandable, you felt that way.

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Huh. I didn't know that Watchmen was such a polarized comic. I thought everyone who read would enjoy it a ton. But then again, three weeks back I tried to get my brother into it and passed him my copy. He only read until Chapter 2 before he said there were too many words and got bored.

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You like it or you like it not.
Than you have different fans of Watchmen. Guess its normal that everyone has different understanding.

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Around 2006 or 07
yes it's a terrible thing to read when you're not too familiar with capeshit and didn't really appreciate it until like 2016 when i read it with companion commentaries.

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My sides hurt. My god, MAD really used to be the good.

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Anyone who likes watchmen should read the 90s Foolkiller miniseries, it's as good of a vigilante deconstruction if not better. If you're interested it just got storytimed over at

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Neat.

I'll give it a whirl

I read it for the first time at 14. All I felt was a terrible sadness, didn't know why. I've been re-reading it every two years or so since then, every time I take a different aspect of it.
>In a world like this, it's all we can do, try and help each other. It's all that means anything.
>This quote became my WWJD. I still quote it today.

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>To this day I have zero intention of watching the movie.

What a hipster mentality. The movie is worth watching, the casting was perfect for the most part, so that alone makes it great to watch as a fan of the comic, to see characters I love come to life

Not that user, but I saw it and ended up finding it alright. Not amazing though. It really wasn't necessary to make Ror kill Roche with a cleaver though. Can't think of hwy they'd want to change that part of the story.

>The movie is worth watching
It really isn't. It's inferior to the comic in every way. The bad acting, the soundtrack and the action sequences are particularly irritating.

I generally enjoyed it, but felt that someone should have taught Laurie to double tap.
Also, Jon's characterization was confusing and inconsistent.
Maybe that pirate shit could have been done differently.

>bad acting

Comedian, Rorschach, Manhattan and Dan had great acting though. Only one who I’d say had actuallt bad acting is Laurie

>soundtrack
Oh I almost forgot about that. It was everything you had in your mp3 in high school while leaning on a brick wall acting cool.

I was a kid when the movie came out and while I didn't watch till some years later it prompted me to get the comic. I was amazed and thrilled with the story but felt depressed and dirty. It wasn't until high school that I reread it and picked up the subtext and understood comic history which made me see it in a new light.

Also on the topic of Alan Moore, should I pick up LOEG Century? Love Vol 1 and 2 and Vol 4 has my attention since it's Alan's last but man Black Dossier was a piece of shit.

Anyone else excited for the upcoming tv show?

Shit looks interesting.

It's pretty good. Not better than Watchmen, though.

Now it's time for the MAD movie parody.

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>eyeholes
That brings out a good point. How did Rorschach see out of a latex mask? Did he fight blind because justice is blind? In the movie, the cloth mask is probably the only improvement on the comic, but still.

Watchmen isn’t a great movie, but it has a lot of great scenes that make it worth watching.

youtu.be/DaZDTiR4F2U

youtu.be/uHVeXM_8Lhg

Pure kino

>Veidt says he can read Doctor manhattans emotions from minor facial movement he makes, and he may as well have been openly sobbing based on some minor facial twinge
>the scene where he kills rorschach is the only one where he blinks, multiple times in fact

Thank you based snyder

Did they make the psychologist white in the movie? I don't remember anymore. Also, why does Walter not have his token red hair?

Nice, thx.

This must have been made pretty early on, because it still has veidt getting crushed by the owlship like in older scripts

This is the psychologist in the movie

youtu.be/0Z0ajI18mCo

Oh, then maybe the comic is doing some reference to some bloke.

who?

Did you even read the comic?

no

Figures. Go and read it, this thread is filled to the brim with spoilers.