Diamonds

If the show wasn't called Steven Universe, yes. Also Garnet isn't near the Diamonds and is on the clear other side of the fountain so saying they're besties is the thing that's bullshit here

That cluster took its revenge on her by destroying the handship and crashing it over Blue's head. That arc is resolved now.

"BUT THEY'RE FAMILY WAAAAA" Rebecca Sugar using Steven Universe as her political agenda spreading mouthpiece the way Pennelton Ward used his sexual frustration thru Finn getting cucked instead of actually going to therapy to deal with his 1st world problems

>"Blue, White, guess what? I just took a hot, steaming piss in this pool! Right now those degenerate Crystal Gems don't even know that they're swimming in Diamond urine!"
>"Oh my stars, Yellow! That's so immature... and yet, so deviously brilliant!"
>"Um... Yellow? We're sitting in this pool too."

>Implying Holly Blue Agate isn't gargling the shit out of her diamonds urine water to show her devotion

>implying Blue Pearl and Yellow Pearl aren't fuck...sorry I meant "fusing" while roling around in their respective diamonds bath water

>deserve
That is a silly way to put it.

Could they be redeemed? To an extent, but it would take a lot of work, time and a seriously good writer. It could require a seasons worth of time delving into the systems of their rule, the history of it and them personally. It would need to be a big character study. Cause what they did is incredibly bad and they have done it for so long. Change from that is not a quick thing and it is possible someone like that is never 100% "cured." You also do have to deal with the idea there will be some who want punishment and revenge. That needs to be quelled in some way.

The other question is should they have? Well the show is about peace and bullshit wins out. But you also need to challenger that notion. Steven didn't really explore ways to help them, it was either him being passive or forceful. It wasn't an interesting challenge to his ideals cause it wasn't really any different than the norm. While also not challenging a big question relating to his line of reasoning, what happens if some will not listen or is simple unconvinced despite understanding his side? Steven is lucky everyone ends up agreeing with him but that isn't a real solution. You don't always get infinite tries like he did where you sort of luck out eventually. Exploring peaceful options from that is so interesting, would Steven willingly make a non-aggression pact with someone he knows was doing wrong if it maintained peace for more? A what point would Steven be pushed to a full scale war, or would even then he be willing to choose more underhanded scheming tactics to undermine is opponents?

I'm not saying they must address every angle, but the issue is they really didn't properly address any yet gave a concrete answer of wuv finds a way.

They deserve to be redeemed by fucking me

The show isn't seeking to make a moral statement about love being good, it just is. It's the answer to the problem and while it's not realistic it is consistent with the show up to this point.

I refer back to my post here. The issue was pacing, not execution.

i have a question about the gems.
if humans had a nuclear war and wiped themselves out, would the CGs even notice? they dont seem to get out much.

Gems are immune to conventional human weaponry their power comes from their gem construct. They're essentially an AI protocol sentient forms of life.

Rebecca's confirmed that there were no world wars and I'm not sure humans even have nuclear power in that universe. But given that they're supposed to protect humans they'd notice Beach City's people gone at least.

>The show isn't seeking to make a moral statement
Yes it is. The show is pretty overt with the messages it is pushing about talking things out and finding peaceful solutions. And it is also doing that while dealing with huge topics. You can't just claim it is not meant to be realistic or even a message when it becomes clear how poorly thought out the show's tackling of the message is.

Rebecca is a literal piece of garbage who makes up bullshit because she never came to any of those conclusions when making the show

Literally the exact same problem happened with Adventure Time and its debatably as to which of those shows did it worse.

That wasn't Penn though, although he allowed that to be done to his character. That was Finn Wolfhard and Jesse Moynihan.

Huge topics such as a child talking down alien dictators? That's not a thing that happens in real life so thankfully we don't need to worry about sending kids the wrong message.

that was matt who said that, and he promptly deleted it. i dont think weve seen sugar actually talk about the history in SU.

also the Manhattan project was underway well before world war 2 even started.

>muh government interference
Boring. Watch Voltron.

Pretty sure she mentioned it recently, but since I have no source I'll drop it.

>Gems are immune to conventional human weaponry
how so? jasper got poofed by a stick.

Well, thats definitively not a conventional weapon.

i had a dumb theory about that when we saw the world map a while ago, but i dropped it since i lost interest in the show.

well if a stick can poof her, a gun probably would.

Radiation and anything of that ilk wouldn't do anything to a gem. Depriving of them of light is something that's been hinted at being super bad for gems though.

Man I sure am glad genocidal dictators aren't a real thing. Or war, cause that sounds like it sucks. You've got some serious brain rot going on there.

The stick was a gem wizard.

radiation i dont think would be the problem. the big boom would be.

(although this whole conversation begs the question of what weapons are actually used by and effective against gems, since weve seen hardly anything of gem weaponry beyond their gem projections)

>They deserved Sea-moan

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it was still a stick that was doing the poofing though. sadie did it too with a wooden one and shes an obese teenager

Wait, light is radiation.

The only moral the show espouses is that love is good and any form of love (besides toxic kinds) is capable of anything: Even redeeming dictators. This is not realistic and is a coping mechanism which is how escapism works. Rebecca doesn't expect Saddam to rise from the grave because the Diamonds were forgiven and I'm sure she doesn't think dictators IRL are as easily swayed, but it's a cartoon. It's allowed to be pure fantasy. Judging it by po-faced IRL logic when it's not attempting to be that is foolish at best and ignorant at worst.

No, no matter how many retarded shills suggest otherwise.
Maybe Blue Diamond alone because she just followed the others like the rest of Gem kind. Pink probably could have convinced her to side with her.

Goddamn, this really puts that gamer girl bath water shit into perspective

White Diamond was in two episodes, for about a grand total of three minutes of screentime. There wasn't enough of her as a character to redeem in the first place.

well if you want to redeem blue, then you would have to with yellow too since theyre pretty much in the same boat.

>This.

What do you think Yellow was doing? She was just as much a part of the system as Blue, Pink or White.

>Pink probably could have convinced her to side with her.
Pink tried, Blue wasn't having any of it. Blue was just as "evil" and conceited as the other Diamonds but losing Pink deeply unbalanced her; though despite that you can still see that side of her sometimes and was slipping back into that mode even after getting, who she thought was, Pink back.

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white was the head of the system, she deserves it the least.

If we're dealing out blame then yes she deserves it the "least" for being in charge, but given the internal logic of the show she still deserves it since the head of the system is still bound by their own rules. They just needed more episodes for it to be more gracefully delivered, but unfortunately CN clearly didn't renew them until a fair ways through Season 5.

to be fair, pink was a selfish cunt.
she was the main villain of the show and got away with everything scot free because she was afraid of confrontation.

No, but I would hire yellow in my business.

The rest can be sold to jewellery shops.

>but unfortunately CN clearly didn't renew them until a fair ways through Season 5.

Don't make excuses for Sugar's inability to write a cohesive story.

the redemptions could have been well done if they had more than one episode to do them in. we better get more of the diamonds in the movie, or this whole special would be pointless

>Afraid of confrontation

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>Afraid of confrontation

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yeah but White's hot

I'm really not sure why you are desperately push this it isn't realistic so being poorly written is fine line. Even ignoring that it isn't true for this show it doesn't help this show's image at all. That does not make the characters well written and just expanding what is there wouldn't be enough to fix that. They need a whole other dimension to them and there is an entire world that the show sets up that needs to be properly addressed.

If you want to cry and claim there is no message please ignore the very clear messages, that doesn't change that a good story still challenges the protagonists and makes them change and adapt. Steven is just a bland blunt force with his talking powers. Steven just lucks out by finding characters that bend to his will over very little, that isn't interesting for any story. And if you have a story that apparently has no message, not related to anything and isn't meant to be taken seriously it better be a bloody entertaining narrative with good twists and turns.

>Afraid of confrontation

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Pink was born a jester, that was her identity as a gem to be the creative fun one that brings the Diamonds her happiness. But instead Blue would throw her into a dark prison for acting out, just simply playing with the Pearl was enough to get her in trouble. It was implied Blue would often use her powers on Pink. We see Pink try to preserve other organics before being gifted the Earth to Blue's horror, so Blue not listening to Pink's pleas to save the Earth isn't surprising.

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When your whole argument is "STEVEN IS A GARY STU" you've lost before you even begin. Go be cynical elsewhere.

user if you can't see how the first half of S5 was paced normalized and the latter half was abnormally fast with no word of S6 officially delivered by CN yet to the public then that's your problem not mine. Excuses have nothing to do with it.

>passively asking is the same as active confrontation
if she had any form of dignity she would have rebelled as pink diamond instead of RQ, then she would have made a difference.

They are confirmed to be in the movie, though I don't think it'll be a large role.

Every season has been like that, slick. A slow buildup and then a bunch of rushed bullshit capped by a wholly unsatisfying end. Season 5 was exactly par for the course.

Yeah no we've had an entire thread recently about how rebelling as Pink would've been retarded and would've brought all three Diamonds in instantly and the Earth destroyed without any effort. I'm not doing this a fiftieth time.

Blue, maybe
Yellow, a stretch
White, no way
All three, come the fuck on. They were all under the impression that steven was just Pink playing a game. Blue being emotional yet self centered I could see being converted the same way she is in the show. Yellow with what was established until that point however is the one I'd expect to only be convinced after ripping the gem out of steven.

But white, white was on some other shit. You'd expect someone as incandescant and obsessed with perfection to not care that rose is gone and then just whiteify steven like she did yellow and blue when they stepped out of line. She was literally the built up as a monolith. Conquered the most, completly uncaring, thought herself infallible. To think someone built up like that can just change their mind without being established as even capable of doubting themselves is like expecting a well placed arguement to end racism, flat eartherism, and all other self validated incorrect world views.

pink is a diamond. they cant kill her because of that fact alone. if they do it would be disastrous, and they would lose another one of their own. it was as win/win for her

Protecting the Earth is a win. Tipping your hat to your moms is the literal worst thing you can do. There's a reason that spies don't openly tell people their plans.

pink isnt a spy you moron, shes a diamond. her status alone has the power to cause massive internal distress in HW

Did it seem weird to anyone else that White had to zap people with eye beams to be able to control them?

Is this the power of Silver Eyes that RWBY has been building up to?

if you think about it, many aspects of the gems are strange or outright dumb.

It is a stretch to think all 3 could understand the point at all. We are all different, we think different things and different ways. Even inside our own culture their are people who cannot understand each other, right now you can see how politically groups have diverged so much and can't get concepts across to each other. A millennia old alien warmonger will have a very different worldview and moral code. Not something you can appeal to so easily.

>Rebel as Pink
OH SHIT IT'S PINK, SEND EVERYONE IN TO STOP HER BEFORE EVERY GEM IN THE EMPIRE GETS ANY IDEAS

>Rebel as Rose
QUICK, STOP HER BEFORE WE LOSE THAT COLONY

I know you're taking things at face value on purpose but come on now. No more of this.

>Warmonger
They didn't do this to beat down a political rival, they were making new gems. There's no morality involved there.

>pink isnt a spy you moron, shes a diamond.
The fact that you couldn't understand his analogy means you are too much of a brainlet to understand.

>When your whole argument is "STEVEN IS A GARY STU" you've lost before you even begin. Go be cynical elsewhere.

That's not what he said.

>much of a brainlet to understand
much of a brainlet to understand anything

Pink obviously has the tiniest court by a significant margin, with no colonies under her belt and very sparingly used the Earth. The reason why the Crystal Gems picked up so much traction was because it was being led by a rogue normal gem
>Just another Quartz soldier, made right here in the dirt.
by the time it became a full-blown rebellion Pink couldn't stop being Rose it would break the Crystal Gems to learn she was actually a Diamond.

I don't think the Diamonds would have tolerated Pink rebelling. Compared to a tiny insurrection / minor test that the Diamonds thought it was, akin to the rebellious Nephrite we see Yellow talking to in Jungle Moon, a Diamond fully revolting against the authority in the public would be enough to piss them off enough to scoop her away from the Earth clearly not ready for a colony.

The gist is it's "bad writing" because Steven isn't challenged and doesn't grow as a person when he'd already done enough growing by that point to understand that violence wasn't the answer to defeating the Diamonds. He doesn't win "just because" and doesn't need to arbitrarily learn a lesson like a Saturday morning cartoon in order for him to be written effectively. He just needs to be Steven.

being a warmonger is good though. evil must always be stomped out, no matter the price or way.

Probably not, definitely not white, but it's not like there's anything anyone could've done to stop them.
The only alternative to destroying something far more powerful than you is to pacify it.

War for the sake of war is bad. War for the sake of a purpose like defeating nazi germany is the thing I'd agree with you on.

war is never for the sake of war. it is always done with a purpose. it is in human nature to be aggressive.

Use the magic one hit ko weapon fag

I feel like this mental breakdown you are going through proves my point really.Communicating with someone ain't easy. You'd rather pick out a piece of what I said and warp it, rather than confront the crux of your argument. If it is realistic or not really doesn't change that the story isn't well written. An unrealistic story can still be faulty to the core, it can also still has a message that reflects on reality. It can also still be uninteresting and not really get enough out of the ideas that were thrown around.

Point to where I said he is presented as perfect or never in the show grew as a character, oh right you can't. No I said the show gave him too easy of a time in this arc.

It is amazing how your can miss the point so purposefully cause you can't stand criticism. The issue isn't Steven as a character, but the circumstances he is put in and the characters around him. He isn't given enough of a room and challenge to have a interesting confrontation or explore the ideas the shows pushes. And if you want a good story it needs a bit more going on, especially if we follow your argument that literally nothing about the narrative matters outside of being entertainment. That doesn't make him or the show bad so you can wipe away the tears. It makes this arc bad and a lacking conclusion to the ideas that were present in the show. But you seem unable to decide if it has any or not.

Too bad they didn't have one at hand.

any of the Diamonds could have one-shotted them at any point if they so chose, which actually happens in Together Alone Yellow just poofs them all and grabs Stevonnie in 2 seconds. I don't know what onehitko weapon you're talking about, gem destabilizer? breaking point?, but it won't work/help.

I don't care user, shut up and go away. Blah blah blah muh bad writing. Don't care and never will. I don't think SU is perfect but I'll be cold in the ground but I listen to some crit sperg about "bad writing". Now get ye gone, golem. You have a tumblr blog to write.

>it is in human nature to be aggressive.
doubt.png

And we are talking gems here you moron

>I lost the argument so I'm going to piss and moan and take my ball home.

Took longer than I expected, honestly.

White Diamond if the weakest link in all this. She felt like Sugar realising that the diamonds were set up as unmovable forces, but then introduced two emotional characters who to us look like something that might be able to change. So on top of that we get the truly super perfect not human at all diamond. Yet we all knew the conclusion would be a change of heart. So we get oh actually they were lying about being perfect, that concept is just sidelined never to be dealt with really. Your adversary will always turn out to be an emotional wreck.

Instead she should have been a husk. A monolith that just feeds you data, incapable of learning cause it is already perfect. The downfall would be because it can't grow, it can't deal with something outside its perfect plan. The opposite of Steven's ideals is a flawed system that will eventually encounter an error. Steven can adapt, learn from people and help nurture them into something better. Which along the way helps him grow as well. Instead of being taken down by force or a contrived conversation, it would be the conclusion of their own ideals. Maybe White would have already broke before Steven even gets to her. Those around couldn't see because they were bound to the system as well, the idea a diamond failed of its own accord isn't something they could handle. That would actually work for why White Diamond shuts off, it could not understand Pink being shattered. While those around her could at least rationalise it as not her fault, or maybe everyone had different ideas why. Showing they at least have room to grow and think for themselves.

No, it's fucking boring and makes everything trivial. But who gives a shit, since Steven Universe is a bad show made by faggots and liked by morons.

>we never saw White Diamond's court

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I mean... I still don't see why people see them as being redeemed in the first place. Like even if they did stop doing stuff Steven didn't like or undid sone really bad stuff, it's not really costing them anything or even that they're sorry for most of it. If anything it's deeply cynical about how sometimes you can't take the authority to task for its actions and instead just find whatever common ground you have and move on from there.

>A monolith that just feeds you data

Here a long while back some user posted an idea about White being the literal keystone of the Gempire that all data must run through, and that as the Gempire expanded it essentially kept sucking up more and more of her RAM until all that was left was that immobile monolith that desired only efficacy and perfection.

Steven's victory could have been not in making her realize she isn't perfect, but realizing that everything had spiraled so far out of her control that she lost her daughter and her people were slowly being crushed in her grasp. The shock would basically cause her system to reboot and she'd be back to being her old self again.

Obviously that would only work if given the proper setup, but I thought it was a neat idea.

Well...They were actually never redeemed.

Its like some dude sneaking into Hitlers bunker, giving him a hug and telling him that being a fascist leader and starting world wars are bad. But thats all over now and Hitler can join in on this party he is holding.

No, but it was necessary. They are the strongest gems in existence and they are crucial for the empire's stability. They should not be allowed to govern, but having them around as support would be alright for the time being.

I'm not convinced Rebecca has a clear cut political agenda. She just wants to make feel good content, but doesn't spend years developing her rationale.

FPBP

Blue didn't do shit, the worst she did was force people to cry and even then that was beyond her control. Of all of the Diamonds, she's the one that seems genuinely capable of redemption. The others can get fucked.

Didn't Blue kidnap Greg?

> I'm not doing this a fiftieth time.
Then just admit you're wrong and stop arguing this every time someone brings it up.

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They deserve a thorough dicking I feel.

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I want to redeem Blue with my dick

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They all deserve a week with Mr.Universe.

>The writers likely would have Hitler killed in a heartbeat but save literal space dictators that are infinitely worse than Hitler

Wow it's amazing just how little I remember about this show after the barn episodes. Holy fuck the barn episodes were so fucking bad ugh

Maybe Blue could have been redeemed, but Yellow and White deserve to die

Yes of course. For you see, there's an even bigger and badder threat just around the corner
>steven talks to that threat
oh good glad he's friends with her now because there's and even bigger and badder threat right around the corn-

agreed

From what I gather, if you kill them you kill the species. They need all four Diamonds to create full fledged Gems instead of runts like Era 2 Peridots.

>White,Yellow and Blue are nowhere to be seen
Think they're pissed about Steven undoing all the work they put into their empire?

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SU doesnt deserve to be made

True.

And don’t forget adam muto shoving his fucking unicorn wife in the fucking show.

Cope

She thought Earth was utterly doomed, unaware the Cluster had been disarmed and wanted to save him from that.

>I'm not convinced Rebecca has a clear cut political agenda
I don't think she has a clear thought out doctrine to push, but there is a general lesson that in some ways has a political slant. Especially with it not being hard to make links to LGBT acceptance and stuff. She just didn't form a very good package to deliver the message, the conflict should have been way smaller in scale. Talking it out wins is okay when we are dealing with a mean kid, not the heads of an intergalactic empire who hate the fusion gays.

Not sure if that counted as a redemption arc rather than just teaching them empty. Plus they agreed to fix all the corrupted gems without much thought. I think the story was trying to tell us they were never evil in the first place except for white diamond.

white diamond deserves to play with my dick

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They deserved the Guillotine

That whole scene was like if Samurai Jack ended with Jack hugging it out with Aku. It’s so nonsensical and inconsistent with the scope of crimes committed on one planet alone it beggers belief.

Also? Saying “that’s how the show goes” is a terrible excuse for writing so bad it ignores and completely undermines the emotional stakes.

>White has a weaker, shittier version of the Omega Effect
Darkseid confirmed for the next big bad?

No.
They’ve murdered millions.
But since they cry and make cute faces they deserve sympathy aww look at the sad diamond
They’re responsible for thousands of year at minimum of war and death, and just a year ago they attempted destroying earth with the cluster, guess everyone forgot about that
Wouldn’t surprise me if the SU staff literally forgot cause they didn’t plan literally anything
They say they do but they don’t, they obviously don’t.
The diamonds are monsters and deserve to be shattered into atoms or fashioned into jewelry

I don't watch the show but I try to stay in the loop a bit

Didn't these 3 cause a war and the cluster in the earth?

I am not sure it's an issue.

They are a radically different species.

Does a human need to be 'redeemed' if he settles a farm where there used to be woodland, displacing or killing the wild animals in the process?

>Yellow is an uncaring unfeeling killing machine

She just holds it in. But if she really didn't care she would not have been convinced by Steven at all.

Did we really need 'What's your problem'??

And how do you propose to fuck the 40-foot tall women, user?

But she was also the most clueless.

How out of touch would you have to be to believe you are flawless?

With the rather enormous difference that Hitler was a human being raised in human society who conspired to murder millions of people.

If Hitler had conspired to terraform Mars without regard for any nascent life foms - a sort of semi-sentient plant - that would be the same.

Are you retarded? One act of smacking is not equivalent to a war crime. You expect Hitler getting a public spanking to be his redemption arc? Just bare ass Hitler getting 20 whacks across the ass from each world leader and done. All is cool now.

To be FAIR. Universe Charm, she had no control at that time. Also She thought she was saving the one cock to rule them all.

I hated that to be honest, they did such a good job of showing Blue as the sympathetic one because she is sad while also dipping hints that makes her the most volatile and dangerous of the lot.

it would be really interesting considering the show at its core is being familiar with your emotions, having a confrontation that stems from somone being too emotional would be kino. It would have been fantastic if she was the one that went nuts at Steven and tried to crush him with Yellow protecting him trying to preach reason, rather than Yellow just going REEE ME BAD GUY and Blue going "I'm sad and crying and thus the victor!"

Instead of teaching a lesson that is be in tune with your emotions but stay composed, it's just "Reeee if you're sad or offended, you're the victim and are automatically right."

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Does anyone find it messed up that the entire gem-war happened with thousands of gems fighting, killing and outright shattering each other over what ended up being Pink Diamonds army vs Pink Diamonds other army.

Like fuck who cares about the Diamonds, how many gems died fighting their brothers and sisters for what they thought was a noble cause and was simply because Pink Diamond couldn't stand true confrontation so ran away from home so she could cry and hide.

A clusters worth of corpses just because Pink Diamond was a coward and a liar who started a war with herself because she "Was unhappy :( " and it looks like she gets away with it too.

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She was incredible self-centred and selfish, her response to destroying earth was "I know what will make me feel better, lets take a few more as pets and slaves, that's what Pink would have wanted! We can put them in the zoo with the others and that way I'll always have something to remember Pink by."

>if he settles a farm where there used to be woodland, displacing or killing the wild animals
But in a way we have realised this is wrong. We have regulations to make sure the impact of our building and expansion isn't too great, and many are in a fight to push for more. If someone breaks the laws they are punished. We as a species are debating the notion of can and should we do better, and that is just for creatures we can see are not on the same level of intelligence as humans.

Instead what the show presents is a kid going to the world leaders and saying hey you stop that now, and everyone going oh yeah we'll stop building stuff that is pretty bad right on kid.

Nah that sounds perfectly fine, anyone could easily get over there entire world view being changed

BUT WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T USE MY POINTY STICK I'LL KILL ALL OF YOU

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I mean like, I can understand Bismuth calming down over Rose bubbling her for wanting to shatter the diamonds with The Breaking point, thats something you can calm down from after a while and come to understand.

But when she finds out that the entire war and every life shattered, every friend she lost and every life she took was simply on a selfish whim of the same uppercrust Diamond she thought she was rebelling against, how is she NOT going to flip her shit? Obviously she is just going to laugh it off as "Aha, you really stuck it to those Uppercrust Diamonds then Pink!". When really, she just stuck it to thousands of gems who got dragged along in her little tantrum.

I just can't see how Bismuth is not going to go full Punished-Bismuth with the breaking point, hell I wouldn't be suprised if there are a lot of gems who feel the same once they find out, might make an interesting arc of gems trying to fight/campaign for Pink Diamond and the crystal gems to face some kind of justice.

I'd take selfish and self-centered any day over actively sadistic and genocidal. She still at least had SOME good intentions at the end of the day, even if it was mostly to make her feel better about destroying Earth. It's not like she took part in any of the horrific experiments Yellow did, it's hard to say if she was even aware of what the Cluster was made out of.

This. Just imagine people defending the last two seasons of Star vs by saying shit like “that’s how the show goes”. No motherfucker, this show is just bad.

It just makes you wonder why the hell didn't she just do that to all of Homeworld in the first place, especially to Pink. This whole show would not have happen had she just decided to create her own hivemind, which she was clearly never against.

She doesn't want to spread herself too thin.

But there's nothing to imply that. Never has she said that using her powers actually wears her out, she mind controlled the other Diamonds and the Crystal Gems just fine. If you have to make up headcannon to justify plot holes then that's just bad writing.

>"There we are! I've removed their flaws! Now there is nothing to hinder my white light from sparking through them. I'd rather not spread my uninhibited self so thin, you know, but you've made it absolutely necessary. Now, the impurities you've encouraged in them are gone. Now, they are brilliant! Now, they are perfect! Now... they are me!"
WD said so herself.

>Does a human need to be 'redeemed' if he settles a farm where there used to be woodland, displacing or killing the wild animals in the process?
That point kind of falls apart when you consider the Diamonds have also killed countless Gems of their own. So the analogy only really works when the farmer is a psychopath that had committed genocide against humans in the process of doing that.

What method of punishment, should had Homeworld used to punish rebellious gems, that would've been more humane than shattering, yet still effective?

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Whites mind control would work. They would be freed eventually

I think one issue though that isn't really brought up-- though I in general agree that SU's pacing is a little off but that problem is squarely because they only have X amount of money/time/etc. to tell a story-- is how completely *blind* the Diamonds were to their own crimes.

White set up a system that benefits herself the most with the other three diamonds right below and they demonstrated the capacity to just flat out control any dissenters if not destroy them until PD/Rose stood up to any of this. Wash, rinse, repeat for millennia. The very concept that the diamonds are fallible was literally impossible to consider until Steven caused White to become off color. When that facade broke-- when you can get someone to sober up and see the other side of the argument-- talking things out and/or getting the Diamonds to start trying to fix the problems they caused is possible if however unlikely.

I get that this is very much a complex issue-- and you're right that in the real world no matter what is said, some incorrect stances cannot and will not be changed, but I think the show went with the right message to send--especially towards younger audiences-- more than telling them "well, just use force/punching to change people's opinions." The real world is definitely far more complex, but this is still kind of a kids' show.

They deserve to be shattered and turned into forced fusion experiments to suffer in pain for the rest of their existences the same way the cluster and other experiments they made have to

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Pretty much. Bismuth just accepting all of that was complete nonsense.

embed them in walls and objects like lapis was.

put them in prison

reassign them to shitty stations where they can do no harm

mentally reprogram them as sleeper agents

>g down over Rose bubbling her for wanting to shatter the diamonds with The Breaking point, thats something you can calm down from after a while and come to understand.
>But when she finds out that the entire war and every life shattered, every friend she lost and every life she took was simply on a selfish whim of the same uppercrust Diamond she thought she was rebelling against, how is she NOT going to flip her shit? Obviously she is just going to laugh it off as "Aha, you really stuck it to those Uppercrust Diamonds then Pink!". When really, she just stuck it to thousands of gems who got dragged along in her little tantrum.
>I just can't see how Bismuth is not going to go full Punished-Bismuth with the breaking point, hell I wouldn't be suprised if there are a lot of gems who feel the same once they find out, might make an interesting arc of gems trying to fight/campaign for Pink Diamond and the crystal gems to face some kind of justice.
honestly she should have stayed in the bubble, she didn't contribute anything to the finale any other character couldn't have done except a sword and some wedding rings. you could have had her unbubbled in the ending montage. save her like they're saving jasper.

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But if they left her bubbled, then they wouldn't be able to keep teasing the Barnmate ships that they're never going to commit to!

i assumed they were saving the lapis/bismuth confrontation of s6 so they're going with that bullshit 'she doesn't realise' excuse

do you think lapis did any fusin in the timeskip?

Rebecca is an admitted feminist. She’s just not a crazy SJW who yells “fuck drumpf fuck men subscribe to my patreon”

Pink Pearl really got swept under the rug, huh

What? Pacing is a part of execution. I think you mean the CONCLUSION

But Steven isn't just a kid, he is one of them - but at the same time he is not.

Nobody else could have told them they are wrong and actually make them wonder whether they are.

I mean, there was really nothing to her to begin with. They might as well have just made her White’s Pearl from the beginning so it wouldn’t bring up unnecessary questions.

I'm hoping that's the movie villain gem's main motivation. Pissed off former member of Pink's court who wants revenge for the war being so wasteful and stupid, decides to destroy everything Pink loved including Earth and Steven.

having an opinion on the person who runs your country is hardly crazy, it's good citizenship

>redemption
they weren't exactly "redeemed". They are evidently more valuable alive (to gemkind and for future storylines) than dead/imprisoned, unless the show introduces some way to harvest their gems, and also introducing a character or force who is interested in harvesting them.

Perhaps our new movie villain is extremely keen on harvesting the Earth's resources in order to enact revenge on the Diamonds, since I would assume most/all lesser gems would not be able to stand up against any of them in terms of strength.

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>villain was some wacky jester sent to entertain the homeworld troops during war
>crystal gems attack and fuck them all up
>traumaticbackstoryunlocked.png

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>i assumed they were saving the lapis/bismuth confrontation

According to Sugar at the SDCC, there isn't going to be a confrontation. All that happened off screen.

>interesting stuff all happens off screen
How the fuck does she have a job, "show, dont tell" is literally one of the most important things to remember as a writer and she fucks it up.

Remember when that /sug/ guy called Sugar and it was the most embarrassing thing ever

The only reason they get a lot of flak is because their implied actions are a lot worse than what's shown on screen.

If it was just what was shown, all you could really say Blue did was be mean to Garnet.

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Are you stupid? Yellow created the Cluster.
A weapon made out of a million shattered gems in perpetual torment.

And she didn't do it because Homeworld needed a planet-sized superweapon, she did it purely because she wanted to wastefully destroy the planet Earth out of spite.

I've been a fan of Lapis since watching her introduction on tv. I'm under the impression that since Lapis was made to serve as a potential series finale and introduction to the gem's dubious motivations and history, her presence is a plague to the current direction of the series. This can also be applied to Bismuth's brutally violent streak being swept aside. Hence why both Lapis and Bismuth have had their motivations and impact to the emotions of the main cast severely diminished from their introductory episodes.

Again, their off screen or implied actions are super, super fucked up, i didn't mean implied as in they didn't happen, just that the show doesn't really give them much exposure except through dialogue.
Although when the fuck did they squirt the cluster into the Earth and why did Pink never think to warn anyone to stop it?

People don't really deserve anything, if you think about the universe as a system of effects and consequences you will inevitably be disappointed when bad things happen to good people. Things just happen. They were redeemed, that's it. Did Steven deserve to get what he wanted, or was that irrelevant to the outcome? Do Sapphire and Ruby deserve each other, or do they simply have each other?

At any rate, someone doesn't really "deserve" to be redeemed until after they've already redeemed themselves anyways. Nobody prior to redemption has earned a redemption. The redemption is what earns it, if you can earn anything.

this picture is pretty hype for s6 at least. if nothing else we gettin some low-stakes gem adventures.

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>literally one of the most important things to remember as a writer and she fucks it up.

She's been a fuckup the entire time. I mean, shit, the entire premise of the movie is that all the interesting stuff that could arise from Steven dismantling an intergalactic empire is already done and timeskip Steven just wants to relax after all his hard work.

That’s why timeskips are fucking shit sometimes. Because it skips over things that are more interesting than we gotten instead.

i thought that at first, then i decided we do not need 500x repeats of peridot's arc on various homeworld randos. skipping to where things are concretely different and consequences are starting to rear their heads might actually be a good move depending on how it's played

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Only if Hitler deserves redemption.

Both Steven Universe and funnily enough Star vs. has this problem, where those at the Top/rulers make these drastic, life-altering decisions for everything and the show portrays those decisions as a good thing by the rest of the cast, when in actuality people would be flipping their shit

How could the Diamond Imperium fall apart so easily? The Imperium of Man has survived far more horrific threats than Talk No Jitsu. Is gemkind inept?

>Because it skips over things that are more interesting than we gotten instead.

That just seems to be a running theme with the show in general. Want to see characters like Garnet get more development? Want to explore how Lapis went from barely tolerating Peridot to being her BFF? Wanna see more of Jasper so we get a greater sense of her depth and pathos? Well fuck you, here's Mr. Smiley's possibly gay lover, pizza girl having bad dreams, and more motherfucking Onion.

It's fucking infuriating sometimes.

>show that includes royalty character getting 500x assasination attempts a day
>they don't even care anymore

because plot. lapis has to repress her emotions and pretend she's fine until it's a convenient time in the plot for her to actually do something

Would've hit the audience harder if clone pearl pulled the sword out as she poofed

>Is gemkind inept?
They're not SUPPOSED to be inept. They're clearly intended to be super dangerous and efficient conquerors. They're just written really really badly so they come off as being criminally inept and occasionally retarded.

The diamonds themselves helped dismantle it.

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The show desperately needs a real, lasting antagonist. It defaults back to Friends with Technicolor Lesbians every fucking time anything starts happening, raising the stakes before quickly turning the heat down because the show's writers realize anything too exciting might scare their big fat audience.

>Steven and the gems find a big egg in a crater
>Steven takes the egg back home
>egg hatches, revealing an infant space alien
>everyone (particularly Steven) coddles the space alien baby
>somebody intelligent (we'll say Greg) has a bad feeling about the alien but is won over because Steven is so attached to it
>space alien grows into a very large space alien
>starts running around the vents like a xenomorph, abducting people in town and causing a mess
>Steven eventually finds it, realizes it's now much bigger and super intelligent
>it thanks Steven for nursing him to health before escaping in stolen military tech or something substantial
>alien becomes the main antagonist, starts fucking with earth in various conceited ways
>Steven learns you can't be friendly to everything
>show has a main enemy who isn't some literal who giant lesbian from outer space, it's essentially Steven's kid brother (obvious emotional tension)

I'm not saying you have to do this beat for beat, but it's a good example of what would improve this show tremendously: believable, lasting conflict that isn't solved the same fucking way every time.

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That’s not what I said at all

Rebecca actually stated this in an interview. She said something along the lines of “The moment where Steven pulls the gem out the mirror was one of the first concepts for the show, even before coming up with Lapis herself”

Old concept art had eldrich horror-like monsters. Would have been great if they were corrupted gems or alien beings that had survived from losing their home planet to gems.

They don't have to go over-the-top edge, but show that with the good, will also come with the bad. It's how life is and one must accept not everything will change so easily.

they did that, though. everyone told steven not to heal lapis because she'd draw attention to them, and she did.

if you want antagonists, steven doesn't need some extra aliens, steven needs white to get off her fucking ass earlier than season finale

Lapis can't be called a bad guy even charitably.

lapis is only a good guy because the narrative frames her as one, she's just an emotionally abusive coward. and no i'm not a jasperfag

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>Is gemkind inept?

Yes. They are a species of slaves. Steven's hybrid nature makes him a new apex predator, the likes of which the universe has not seen.

The only thing that can override their slave nature is love.

When even the writers have apparently swept away Lapis's whole "1000+ years trapped in a mirror forced to look at the starry skies or the inner workings of Pearl's headspace."

Does hitler deserve redemption?

>Is gemkind inept?
They're a race of beings who have all the same emotional needs as humans, but have convinced themselves they're automata. They've crippled themselves, and humanity must be the first alien race they've encountered, because just about group whose members have an ounce of emotional intelligence should be able to destroy them from the inside out.

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That's a where the river took Etika.

The real reason Greg was so confident in the "Ol' Universe Charm" was what he did to Blue on the trip to the Zoo.

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I think they should have done something like that. Have some of the antagonists be angry entities who suffered under the Gems. Also, never actually introduce the Diamonds; show snippets and glimpses of them, but keep them as these unknowable, unstoppable giants far beyond Steven's reach. IMO, some of the best parts of the show were when you were aware that the only reason the Crystal Gems were even alive was because they were simply so far beneath the notice of the Diamonds. You know, before it became apparent that the Crystal Gems were still alive because the Diamonds are just really bad at what they do.

this
you could do a miniboss per character. they mentioned peridot's manager, have her come to earth. have aquamarine show up early and beat lapis up. something.

anyone that's willing, desu
its a nice message, but they do need some comeuppance, we need to see them suffer

>They murdered millions and tried to destroy tthe Earth
Sure, butt they have holo-vaginas and they didn't say anything about a girl's ass at a party, so it's easy to glloss over their crimes compared to the true villain of this series, Kevin.

I'm surrprised they ended the show without killing the guy. I mean let's be real, the guy is probably always going to be fond of ass because it's a built-in part of who he is, and the only way to stop him is his total destruction. That or erectile dysfunction, but can the universe really wait that long?

i just realised we're going to see kevin after a timeskip. where is he now?

My guess is Kevin either won't appear again, or he'll be suffering somehow as a karmic punishment for being rich and popular instead of being an awkward nerd who went to animation school.

bubbling is the perfect form of imprisonment, but it's probably not "evil" enough for Homeworld

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As much of a great imprisonment method bubbling is, it's not exactly a good method of punishment, since bubbled gems don't feel the passage of time.

>Entire show is about the concept of forgiveness and showing kindness even to those who don't deserve it
>"WHY DIDN'T STEVEN KILL THE DIAMONDS THEY'RE SO EVIL!!!"

>People utterly ignoring the fact they are a completely different species, when humans, as a species, feel no moral obligation to other species

...what?

Not that user, but they're referring to how we raze the earth of all its resources, and if we were to discover life on another planet, a very possible option would be treating them like how historical colonials/invaders have treated technologically disadvantaged natives.

I mean sure, yeah... but we're talking about Steven Universe. A kid's cartoon. A show about fictional rock aliens discovering the power of friendship. Real world species dynamics have nothing to do with any of this.

I could see redeeming blue and yellow if they were actually just terrorized by white into obedience and going through with all this stuff, but having NO true actual "villain" who's just a villain was a weak copout.

hence why this whole talk of "redemption" is inane. I don't see people shitting on Care Bears gangbanging their antagonists into submission with Care Bear Stares (TM), every fucking time.

>But Steven isn't just a kid, he is one of them
This is really the angle you are going for? It wouldn't be any less silly if one random world leader got everyone to agree on something so quickly that entirely uprooted how every country acts.

>Nobody else could have
Him being the right fit for the job doesn't mean it should have been dealt with so easily.

It's all about the tone. You're probably going to hate me for bringing this up, but the Pony show started its run with the characters actually bickering and taking their personal situations seriously, so some of those fans got a little sour when the whole thing got to be about the friendship princess and, later, her friendship school.

Care Bears aren't depicted as self-interested, and those shows often demonstrate self-interest as the highest form of evil. The only way the show knows how to stop self-interest is with magic, so you really don't blink at magic making self-interest go away over and over again.

Steven Universe tried to speak to an older audience, and while the characters are often not shown to be smart enough to act in their own interests a lot of the time, they still do on occasion, which means that there CAN be a conflict of interests and it leads the audience to ask how that conflict was even resolved between the Diamonds and Steven.

Kevin is joked about, but ihe's a good example of why people ask how Steven can always forgive a Gem, but not a young man. In real terms, the conflict is evident enough - Kevin is a rival for Connie's affections, even if Kevin didn't realize what he was doing, and this made Steven jealous and irrational. He never really did forgive Kevin so much as Steven moved on, but to be fair Kevin was more blameless than the diamonds were because he never murdered nor tortured anyone.

All I'm saying is, you can't knock the fans for asking questions if the show makes it clear those questions are in the air.

I get the impression Sugar gets scared of displaying characters as truly negative. They have negative aspects, but is quickly rapped up or pushed to the side. When a character is bad it is something pitiful and fixable. I think pearly stood out early on cause there was a good balance of good and bad within her that was well justified. When Lapis is a toxic fuck she is just hurt and needs to heal! She handles abusive people weirdly. But fuck Kevin for some reason, I really feel bad for Kevin after he tried to help Steven fix his relationship yet the show still seems to hate him a whole bunch.

Also get the impression she is very bad at controlling boarders, so the whole message gets mangled.

i think a good question is how much of it is on purpose, if we're talking about steven's shortcomings. since steven has been shown to be selfish and oblivious to the big picture, and so has pink, so it's possible they're going to revisit that issue. probably not though,

What did he Diamonds do wrong exactly? Try to preserve their species by exploiting the resources of other species, even if it means driving them to extinction? Restricting the freedom of their species for long term stability? How is that any different than what humans have done, are doing and will continue to do into the future?

A big issue is we all see those underlying ideas consistently, and then see threats that are some what obviously meant to challenger it. But then all Steven has to say is "I implore you to reconsider"

i think the only gems he's done talk them into crying with is the diamonds. all the other times it's about appealing to their sense of selfishness. agree it's overused though

>There were no World Wars
Is Rebecca retarded? Without the World Wars you don't develop our world's type of peace/democracy. In fact you have Imperialist Brits, French, Germans, Japanese, United States, and Russia dominating the world in a quasi-cold war/arms race.

>What did he Diamonds do wrong exactly?
Failing to harvest the planet Earth because of personal grief for their fallen kin. Instead, they let it fester like an open wound, opting to use it as a long-term, minimally monitored testing site for a mass bio-weapon that ultimately turned against them because their fallen kin, however insignificant, had risen from the ashes, like the Furtive Pygmy from Dark Souls.

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She did NOT confirm this, as others have already pointed out, but it's pretty clear that this Earth has an alternate history that isn't going to be relevant unless otherwise stated.

I finally watched this

>Yellow and Blue gonna throw down
>but then Yellow is sad
>Steven gets extracted by White but then screams at her
>she blushes because the others make fun of her and that proves her ideology of gem caste purity is wrong
>this means the 10,000 year old gempire completely uproots their society, hierarchy and system for a new egalitarian system in which the diamonds are just really big gems instead of living gods

inb4 someone tells me I need to go back and rewatch it to "understand" it better

just post pics of the Diamonds having their way with Pink

Honestly it seems like weird feminist/lesbian stuff came later as other writers were added to the show. The original, pure Sugar of the show was a slice of life shounen anime about a fat jewish boy with alien powers discovering himself.

The weird stuff ramped up later.

Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them?

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You really think you can convince someone they’re wrong just by hammering them with the same half-baked opinions again and again, until they get tired of debunking them? You really think you can claim victory then?

... YES!

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>there isn't going to be a confrontation. All that happened off screen.

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more like, when they were sure they wouldn't get cancelled for it. garnet was always lesbians.

Gandalf BTFO.

They were growing a giant geoweapon inside of the earth, so they were still getting something useful out of it. Try again retard.

very redeemable

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Probably helps that the Diamonds voluntarily left their positions of power(?). Their most valuable contribution seems to be excreting their liquids to create new gem life, which is probably what they can continue doing. Gems don't seem to require much resources to live besides maybe a light source. I don't even think the Diamonds did all that much governing besides Yellow.

Yes, as I stated in my post.

>She will never step on me

wow you're very edgy and funny

>She will never vore me

Any form of government is better than anarchy. In gem civilization it's even worse because a large percentage of the population are thousands of years old immortals who hate any kind of change and view the Diamonds as the WWII Japanese viewed the Emperor.

But for some reason Steven thought it was a good idea to dismantle the Empire and turn it into some kind of ancap utopia. Is he going to start dismantling human nations next and get them to stop polluting the earth?

SU its really weird when it comes to character conflicts, and by that i mean, as long as Steven is okay with you, everyone is okay with you regardless of what you've done and if Steven doesn't like you, you are the worst person that has ever lived and everyone hates you
I guess Steven is just a huge mary sue that the show revolves around, if Steven says they deserve redemption then they do, even if in real life most characters deserve to burn in hell for all eternity

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It isn't fair

I don't know if I'd call Steven a Mary Sue since there are some people that don't get along and he does make a lot of mistakes, but I do agree that if Steven likes a character everybody else is guaranteed to like that character no matter what. It's kind of an extension of the "Steven's perspective" problem.

I'm just saying that it helps that gems seem to be largely self-sufficient, compared to humans who need clean food, clean water, and a livable atmosphere, of which is apparently quite limited and ever-declining in real life Earth.

Helps that Steven is apparently a literal disney princess and can be viewed in some respects as an equal authority with the other three Diamonds.

Do I think the opening premise of that movie trailer to be absolutely retarded? Yes, of course. I thought the Diamonds would still be governing Homeworld, since Steven's primary goal throughout much of the show has been to get HW off his lawn (Earth). I hope the villain addresses some serious concerns about Steven's hands-off approach to the empire he hsa apparently inherited/usurped.

Literally the only reason the cluster failed was because right around the time it was set to go off a organic-gem abomination that had never existed in the history of the universe gained an ability to enter minds that had also never existed before.

The cluster plan only failed because of major plot convenience.

The cluster plan was also their best option, colonizing it is right out because it takes four diamonds to heal corruption. Sending gems to a planet where they could potentially get corrupted after you just lost a ton of gems in a civil war is stupid. Stopping the Cluster from hatching when you'll never get your hands on that many gem shard again is stupid.

>there are some people that don't get along and he does make a lot of mistakes
Not to be a dick but i can't think of an example that's not "Obviously evil guy" characters and '"That's our steven!' *cue laughtrack in the background*" moments

Yes. Gems are immortal, they don't need to breathe, they don't need to eat, they can survive at the bottom of the ocean or out in space, if their bodies get damaged they can regenerate a new one, they have tons of superpowers and they're so intelligent they can build mechs beyond anything humans are capable of building out of junk laying in a barn. They're better than humans in every way, why was using the earth to create more gems a bad thing again? Because Rose was a slut for human cock? Why couldn't she be happy with the Zoo?

Not in the slightest, you can't cry and expect the multiple genocides to go away.

It's exactly what people do in real life so why would it be different in fiction?

What type of business would that be?

For example?

Turkey.

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Why does Pearl have 3 arms?

I think it's suppose to be a Pearl Lapis fusion

So it's a lazy fusion. Basically Pearl with a different hairdo, more arms, and more ribbon bows.

This, White is a very compelling villain trying to reshape anyone who wrongs her in her own image. Unfortunately 3 episodes isn't enough to show the weight of that sort of character with that dangerous trait.

It's too fucking obvious but i really fucking hope by some miracle of Allah that the movie actually straight up kills the fucking upside down heart gem villain and not some power of friendship bullshit

If they do this, i will forgive Sugar for everything

So why the fuck do humans look like gems?

I used to think long ago that the crystal gems made themselves look human-ish to blend in but that's been clearly wrong since Lapis was introduced.

This is what the gems, including the diamonds, look like.

Why do humans look like gems. More specifically, why do humans look more like the diamonds than like 99% of gems do?

Why do humans look like the diamonds?

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It's convergent adaptation. Having a bipedal body with the sensory organs on top makes sense

No.

But did they really get redeemed? It’s not known at this point if they’ll face punishment for what their empire has done to other planets.

We don't look like gems. Gems don't have ears, breasts, body hair, belly buttons, or sexual organs. Compared to them, basically we're monkey

Also fingernails and nipples

we've seen Amethyst's ear a couple times, and what looks like breasts on some gems.
few gems with fingernails too—one of White Diamond's most distinctive feature are her nails.

obviously gems are very humanoid in appearance just more template-y. similarly they speak English...despite having their own written language. but that's fine this comes with the genre.

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Sure