DC Comics publisher Dan Didio revealed a VERY interesting fact at SDCC

DC Comics publisher Dan Didio revealed a VERY interesting fact at SDCC.

Makes you think.

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Other urls found in this thread:

comicsbeat.com/sdcc-19-dcs-meet-the-publishers-panel-live/
icv2.com/articles/comics/view/22231/howard-chaykin-the-shadow-blood-judgment
youtube.com/watch?v=39Q-h90Ja6o
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_hero
cosmicbook.news/disney-shutting-down-marvel-comics
comicsbeat.com/dcs-diane-nelson-dc-properties-bring-in-8-billion-in-licensing/
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LegacyCharacter
comicsalliance.com/the-replacements-jay-garrick-legacy-the-flash/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

OLD COMIC GOOD
NEW COMIC BAD

This but unironically

It's almost as if people don't want to buy new, shitty comics.

Then perhaps the New comic should get good.

There were rumors recently that DC was
going to stop making new comics. They would do the Walmart reprint books and still keep their trades in print but monthlies would be over. This looks like it may be being considered

Thank god.

The universe will not die with a bang, but with a whimper.

Sounds like a good transitional plan while AT&T courts Disney into buying DC.

But this seems like a fallacy, why not reprint older stories connected to current arcs? Why not reintroduce old characters through cheap books to promote upcoming titles, as of this point have any of those true believer reprints hit the top ten? I can’t really think of that happening at any point despite the fact that they’re so cheap. Honestly marvel should release those at news stands and gas stations again to boost awareness to kids

>New comic:
Batman is terminally retarded while Catwoman does everything for him
This shit goes on for 80 issues
>Old Comic:
Batman is a witty detective solving crimes of iconic villains with actual detective work
This shit is done in one easy to digest issue
>Somehow the editors at DC can't grasp why people isn't buying the new books

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When you supposedly flagship title’s cumulative arc is just a poor retread of Knightfall, no wonder they’re being outsold by older stories.

>"Why do these good old stories sell more than our shitty new stories"
Who can solve this mystery

Philosophically speaking, we're all a product if our past. It makes us who we are, and without it we're nothing. That said, no one should live solely in the past. We should show appreciation for the present, and look forward to the future too. True peace of mind means maintaining respect for all three concepts of time.

Didio's statement is coming from a business perspective. He's covering up the truth with meaningless chin music. What he really acknowledges is that DC comics doesn't see the same profit margins for purchases of decade old books. What keeps publishers afloat is the purchase of NEW books, specifically new floppies. So he has to paint a picture of progress in an attempt to convince listeners to buy new books only.

DC does facsimiles?

nice

why doesn't DC just hire better writers?
I don't think it's too complicated.

Seems like a dumb rumor, although it begs the question, why not try and ape something like One Punch man? It features free online updates and releases paid physical volumes.

The last time they went out of their way to hire "real" authors it wasn't met with a lot of love from comics nerds. Brad Meltzer and Jodi Picoult.

Because any writer worth its salt would be writing their own novels, not Juvenile Batman Retread #7889876555 - Status Quo and Editorial Mandate Edition.

that sounds like 99% off all webcomics

Source?

Makes you wonder why their reprints have so many issues and have always had so many issues

Plus I don't know why what said would raise that question, lol

I know people throw an autistic fit about him whenever he’s mentioned now, but according to EVS, big names get special treatment. Frank Miller was paid a million dollars to write whatever he wanted for the Dark Knight Returns sequel. Put a big name on Superman and Batman, you’d have to let them have creative control to get them to take the project, and I imagine the editors and big wigs at DC don’r want the characters straying too far from the company decided vision.

I can see how he might feel like it was about the new comics being less interesting, but I think that is just a tiny aspect of it.

The way that comics have been using the same characters for decade after decade, has a way of preventing new readers from getting into them, because they feel like they need all the back issues to catch up with where things are. Someone can claim that a new run doesn't need prior knowledge, but new comics are always riddled with references and nods to old comics that readers want to be able to recognize. These multi-decade characters are locking new readers out, just by dent of having been around so long.

Of course on the other hand, the writers have no confidence in switching to new properties. When a comic run stops or a character is killed, some people take it as a chance to exit the hobby. That is tough to fight against.

>old Batman
>not retarded
I know I might be the only one here collecting Silver Age stuff, but I feel like you just don't know how weird old comics are.

Kind of happy about this tb h. Bendis has more understanding of Marvel and DC characters than your average big name writer from out of the comics world...and he's still Bendis. If you want unique takes that'd fundamentally change the characters and their accompanying concepts make your own creator owned comic.

DC had a Publishers Panel on thursday. No one made a thread about it though
comicsbeat.com/sdcc-19-dcs-meet-the-publishers-panel-live/

>Dan says that there are disturbing trends in the marketplace, such as the variant cover programs and he especially bemoans the sales of facsimile books that he says in some cases are outselling the new titles featuring the same characters. He feels like their goal should be building new worlds rather than revisiting the old ones.
They are starting in August with
>BATMAN #232 FACSIMILE EDITION
First Ra’s al Ghul
>HOUSE OF SECRETS #92 FACSIMILE EDITION
Swamp Thing first appearance

My post was more of bronze age batman
Silver age batman had retarded moments but the world around him was just as retarded and so he seemed smart.

Silver age DC & Marvel were writing for different age demographics, lumping them together is foolish

Marvel was actually aiming for college kids by the middle of the Silver Age.

Wait a minute, are those the only two facsimiles being published right now? Does Swamp Thing have a book right now or are you telling me that a Batman reprint is selling more than Batman? That can’t be right. Are facsimile sales on comicchron?

It doesn't show.

Gee you fucking DiDiot, maybe you should "create your new worlds" without shitting on the ones that people actually like. Fucking moron.

>Bendis has more understanding of Marvel and DC characters than your average big name writer from out of the comics world...and he's still Bendis.
[citation needed]
How come he can never get these characters right, then?

Yeah I'm reading tons of silver age marvel stuff and its not silly stuff like Superman forcing Jimmy Olsen to marry a monkey or whatever. Not that it doesn't get crazy too, but it's just good stories mostly.

It's the complete opposite. Modern day superheroes have as much personality as a WWE character.

>How come he can never get these characters right, then?
That's my point. He's read comics more than your average big name "real literature" author and still fucks up all the time. I don't want people with even less understanding than him getting the reins to Marvel and DC, like Picoult did with Wonder Woman a decade ago. This isn't praise being thrown Bendis's way, this is shitting on the others even more.

No, they were not. You can make a case for some Bronze age stuff like Howard the Duck, Moon Knight and some horror titles, but Marvel was just publishing for older kids. Capeshit wasn't as acceptable as it is now.

>Are facsimile sales on comicchron?
Those two haven't been released yet (we are in July, not August). There was supposed to be a Batman #181 solicited for September (First Poison Ivy appearance and a rare poster in it), but that didn't actually appear in the solicitations.

Didio's saying that they are selling higher than many of their new books, but we don't have those numbers. Which means, the preorders are much higher than they expected.

Yeah people don't want to read shitty comics, go figures.

Joe Hill (Stephen King's son, and leading a new pop-up) steered the conversation back later in the panel.
>Hill takes a minute to defend facsimile comics, as a possible gateway for older readers to hand to children or other potential fans as something the former is already familiar with. He feels they serve a great purpose in that end.

BleedingCool was also at the panel (which is what the OP is actually from), and they quoted this from Hill:
>The reason they sell so well is, if you’re an older reader who has kids who are going crazy for comics, you’re gonna buy the Facsimile Edition because those are the stories you knew and loved as a kid. So for people who didn’t know them, they’re not ‘new’, but they are new.

WOAH so the only people who give a fuck about superhero comics are the ones who were obsessed with them 30 to 40 years ago when they were somewhat fresh and original instead of a shambling corpse that reuses the same fucking properties and premises over and over?

Superheroes need to fuck off from comics entirely at some point I swear to god, fuck that entire genre and how it took the comic industry hostage.

Come to think of it, there is a Swamp Thing story going right now. Seeley's writing one for those Walmart specials. I haven't read any of those because they aren't in Canada.
If it gets reprinted like the Batman/Supes/Wondy/TT ones, then it will get a floppy release in a year or so.

It's not that they took it hostage, it's that they were the only ones carrying the weight after Wertham and EC closing and inadvertently became the face of the industry.

I'm sure there will be a time when people call for a reprint of comics like "the first time Batman was cucked" and other classics of the modern era

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>reuses the same fucking properties and premises over and over
We wish they reused the premises. Now we get "what if Batman but suicidal and cucked", "what if the same genius hero but an unapologetic asshole with CURRENT YEAR politics", "what if replaced by a black little girl", "what if my wife orbits black dick" etc etc.

>He feels like their goal should be building new worlds rather than revisiting the old ones
This is seen as a bad thing by nu-Yea Forums. What the fuck happened with this board?

Wow. That honestly took longer than I expected with this thread's premise. I'm impressed.

I enjoyed Selina and Lois yuri adventure actually

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Not even /pol/, that's what some writers call a premise these days. Come on. Look at any of bendis' crap and tell me I'm lying.

THIS

Maybe if they stopped making shit comics and ruining character then things wouldn't be this bad.

No one asked for them to hype up a wedding only to chicken out at the last second. No fan asked for Wally West to turn into a sociopathic manipulative killer. Or age up Jon Kent into an adult. Didio needs to stop blaming the past and look at himself in the mirror.

>LET THE PAST DIE!!! KILL IT IF YOU HAVE TO!!!
Okay, Kathleen Kennedy.

>He feels like their goal should be building new worlds rather than revisiting the old ones.

And yet he still pushes Old Barry as the main Flash and Old Hal Jordan as the main Green Lantern. And forced a spiritual sequel to Identity Crisis and made a rehash of Forever Evil.

Didio is a hypocrite who keeps repeating his favorite history and hates that no one likes it.

Actually blaming the past is alright... if "the past" means Identity Crisis, Amazons Attack, etc

>Makes you think

WRONG. NOTHING WILL MAKE ME THINK.

Is he just salty that nobody bought Sideways?

That happened before the New 52. WB/Time-Warner/Whatever at the time was threatening to close down DC comics and just do reprints of books if they didn’t increase their profits. Didio and others created New 52 to increase profits and save DC (which is what Didio used as leverage whenever someone questioned him about the business of DC). Which it did.

But now that sales have plummeted and events aren’t as successful as they should be, I wouldn’t be surprised if AT&T is considering the same thing. After all, AT&T has already started closing branches, shows, and businesses they got from the merger.

>people would rather read old comics than our new comics full of SJW faggotry
>We need even more SJW faggotry, that's how we'll survive and grow this industry

Yes. It really does make me think.

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Have you even read the thread? The problem is he doesn't practice what he preaches. For every good idea they have, they wind up marring it with three shitty ideas. See: Heroes in Crisis, Doomsday Clock, ect.

Of course people are going to strictly revisit the old material if they don't feel the new material's letting them down.

Amazons Attack isn’t responsible for King making Batman a Cuck. Didio is for approving it. Just like he approved Heroes in Crisis and picked the characters. Just like he outlawed marriage and children.

>majority of the readership are nostalgifags who want to have a nice little comics blanket
nothing new here

Well, they did call "Heroes in Crisis" a "spiritual sequel to Identity Crisis", right? A lot of what goes on right now is just DilDio retreading retardation.

>*if they feel the new material's letting them down

>DC Rebirth: Hey Readers. We are sorry. We know we made some mistakes. But we are sorry. Here are some of your old favorite beloved characters like Wally West. We promise to respect our character and to respect the history of our universe. We especially want to show respect for the past.

>Two Years Later
>Dan Didio: FUCK YOUR PAST! WALLY WEST IS A PSYCHO AND A KILLER!!! NIGHTWING IS RIC!!! TITANS IS DEAD!!! REEEEEEEEE

How dare Readers want quality writing. They should read bland try hard garbage like Tom King’s Batman and Bendis’s Superman instead of comfy comics like Ewing’s Immortal Hulk or Spencer’s Amazing Spider-Man.

How dare they ask for quality!!!

>Don’t question product, only consume product and get excited for next product.
Whatever, Didio.

I liked pre-crisis water.

Honestly, the idea of keeping things fresh after all these years is insane. And eventually you're telling the same stories over and over.

Marvel does.
Although Marvel didn’t erase their WW2 and 90s characters just out of petty spite like DC did.

Batman was a retard in a way that was funny to watch and not just disturbing.

Even ignoring for a second the QUALITY of the new comics... is it any wonder that people want comics as they originally were published? Hell a lot of people probably lost their originals and want them as they were now that it's an option.

The comic book industry is rotten to the core, there are about two dozen editors at DC right now and they all hire their friends. It's all cyclical, go back several years, hell go back to the start of new 52, pick a month and download all the comics and look at the names if the editors and you'll see what a complete overhaul it is and how back then you had guys like Krul or Winnick and these guys have been completly gone from the industry because they're friends left, now you've got, like, Orlando and he's only getting gigs from that gay editor I'm sure. Same applies to Marvel.

Fuck off marveldrone.

It sounds insane but somehow they keep doing it. But in some ways it ends up helping them.

It reminds me of something Chaykin said about The Shadow, Superman, and Batman:

icv2.com/articles/comics/view/22231/howard-chaykin-the-shadow-blood-judgment

>One of the things about doing The Shadow and taking the character into the contemporary realm (which I said at the time and which I stand by) is that the reason The Shadow is identified with the 1930s is that the character was a commercial and financial failure by the time it was cancelled. I have always believed that if Superman or Batman, for example, had ceased to exist as commercial entities in the late 1940s the way The Shadow did, they too would be perceived as “period” material. Take Tarzan for example. He was created in 1912, but no one thinks of Tarzan as a period character. He just continued to live through the times. One of the negative results of the comic fan and pulp fan’s obsession with continuity is having to find some way to justify this. I feel it is like it is. I don’t feel the need to obsess over that stuff.

Chaykin's disdain for The Shadow stuff aside, he's partly right; if Superman and Batman had gotten canceled like all the other 1940's superheroes, people would've just been fixated on them being in the 40's and fixated on things they (or a person from the 40's) did that would seem out of date in the modern world. To be fair, that's also what Chaykin kinda did with The Shadow You'd have people stuck on Lois being like her 1940's self instead of the changes that were given to her over the decades.

And yet at the same time tossing out everything leads to people caring even less. You end up with something like The Last Jedi or a lot of bad decisions DC and Marvel made in the 00's and 10's where they drove away the longtime readership. There'd have to be sort of a balance between the two.

It's possible to do new things while keeping the spirit of the original world. Like Batman could use cults and gangsters of whatever random styles, but there needs to be a slow build up towards big reveals, which a lot of the modern comics just don't do. They just recycle the same few villains and have them go through kooky circumstances while masturbating to their franchises.

>but there needs to be a slow build up towards big reveals,

I don't think it's so much slow build up but knowing how to pace in general. Slow build up that feels dragged out instead of feeling like deliberate pacing kills a lot of interest, I've found.

somewhat agree, but Stan Lee didn't see it that way. He was constantly going to universities to talk about comics and liberal ideas.

He also "wrote" literal trash for children.

Bendis Superman may suck (no clue haven't read it) but what he is doing there is great. He is responsible for Dial H for Hero and Wonder Twins, he is going to be taking Batman in a new direction with Event Leviathan, so all you King haters can only look to him for safety. In his Indie stuff, Pearl and Cover were great.

He is still Bendis and doing his trope, but this is him caring again. And hell, even if you don't care for what he is writing, he drags a tidal wave of artists/writers with him. Some better than others but at least DC has choices again.

>so all you King haters can only look to him for safety
Actually everyone's just waiting for him to sink sales enough that DC will get a clue.

That means only oldfags are reading comics. Old comics look actually too old even for millennials. Reading them is simply very boring and dull. It's impossible without a nostalgia bias. 90s manga does not feel old though. Probably because of the black and white look. Colored comics are like 3D cartoons. Its basically digital and gets old fast.

Just because you say it in all caps like a memelord doesn't mean it isn't true.

Some exceptions but as a general rule modern comics ARE shitty.

>it's another manga shill complains about comics episode

That's a lesson that both DC and Marvel refuse to learn. Sure, there are *some* younger readers. The operable word being *some*. By and large, readership has been skewing older and older. They keep doing stuff to appeal to moviegoers and kids and "alternative" folks and it's just not sticking.

1. AT&T (just like Disney will due to Fox) needs to cut costs to pay for the loans they both took out to buy those businesses.

2. DC by itself throws off BILLIONS of dollars of gross income YEARLY.

Of course the floppies don't do that but it's pretty obvious that the number of monthly issues that DC is doing is far smaller than in 2011 when they did the New 52, or post the move with the DC You or even at Rebirth.

It would cost Disney more than what they paid for Marvel and possibly more than what they paid for Pixar, not only is is unrealistic that AT&T will sell but it improbably that Disney would buy or that the Justice Department would allow it.

They are not asking for quality, they are asking for the same characters in the same stories fighting the same villains, over and over and over

That goes under "SAME PROPERTIES" dumbass. "Batman but" is still a rehash of the same properties over and over, and even with "different" premises, the actual bottom-line premise doesn't truly change, it's still stupid superhero bullshit worn the fuck out after three quarters of a century of stupid superhero fucking bullshit. There's a reason that most popular webcomics, ie comics created out of passion and supported by fans, aren't superhero related, because FUCK superheroes.

You guys really want comics to fail huh?

Most millennials and all zoomers are manga shills then.
Yeah. Those youngsters are casuals like fake nerds. They only buy Funko trash and watch AAA capeshit. Theyd never buy old school shit except they would when they want such a "vintage" feel as a fashion.

>people aren't buying our modern comics how do we improve this situation
Ok well here's some suggestions that don't just involve throwing your audience under the bus and--
>lalala I can't hear you unless you're telling me what I want to hear
Never mind I guess

I actually agree. I don’t like everything he writes (His Event Leviathan is practically unreadable), but it is new, which I appreciate. Same with the Wonder Comics imprint—-that entire imprint is more good than bad. And most importantly, he’s exploring a bit of the DC Universe rather than constantly throwing Batman to try to save the company from drowning

Old comic -> Fun stories with nice art where white male heroes are portrayed as heroic, cool and masculine while saving pretty or sexy feminine women
New comic -> ugly art in where the title given hero is reduced to a emasculated loser or idiot who has to check his "toxic masculinity and white male privilege". The real hero of the story is some tumblr dyke who saves the day with her marie sue powers while fighting the patriarchy

DC has made nothing but sjw and feminist comics for the last 5 years. Going out of there way to censor once sexy female characters and be as woke as possible at every chance they get. Pretty much every story they release has to deal about women or minorities fighting evil white men who are racist or sexist. So them no longer releasing new comics would not effect me at all.

>We should be focused on moving things forward, always pushing the boundaries
aka, Didio's gonna keep pushing for THE EDGE instead of actually pursuing writers with unique ideas and perspectives who aren't shit and artists with interesting styles.

I want sjws to stop destroying comics and white men to be allowed to have a hobby again

>Old comics look actually too old even for millennials.
Millennial here.
You're wrong.

>people WANT to buy old comics
>few reprints
>collected edition cancelled repeatedly

"The SJWs" shit has been minor compared to a couple of years ago. There's a couple of shit here and there but for the most part it just seems like you people just look for shit to get mad aboutb

youtube.com/watch?v=39Q-h90Ja6o

you should read more comics my friend. Batman is still a cuck who can't survive 5 panels without getting saved by a woman and Lois Lane is complaining about the fact that people are rightfully calling her a slut for kissing Superman eventhrough she is a married woman.
Also female costumes continue to be censored due to DC strict "anti cheesecake" policy. Meanwhile Batman and many other male heroes have to get naked at least once per issue

>Also female costumes continue to be censored
False.

>Take Tarzan for example. He was created in 1912, but no one thinks of Tarzan as a period character.
is that guy retarded? All the retellings of Tarzan continue to use the same early 20th century period

nope 100% true. Also all female characters also got magic breast reductions. Starfire nowadays looks like a dude most of the time for example. I honestly don't know a single female hero who still has big breasts and a revealing outfit

Not false. All women across all media are being desexualized.

People purchase manga which is full of new characters and new IP. Why cant the west do that?

Same goes with this mindset of agitating your fanbase to increase sales.Shills arent helping either just promoting bad business practices.

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Get the fuck out of Yea Forums already you literal manchildren retard fucking RRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE OUT OUT NOW!
I'm serious though, get the fuck out.

Fuck off faggots. They know who to take flyers on and nobody gives a fuck about prose writers particularly those who are laughed at and seen as genre writers.

They dont want to hire people they disagree with politically and just in general.

You get out you worthless fucking pussy. What did you migrate here from tumblr in 2017? I hope you die.

Been here on Yea Forums since 08. Your pussy ass came here from reddit. You come here bitching about the quality of the comics not being that good and when asked to elaborate you just go off on a tangent bitching about the female characters not wearing revealing enough outfits for you to fap to. Get a life, you loser manchild.

Because big publishers aren't going to put money behind untested product. They like safe bets. If you want something original, you'll have to go indie.

he says that its bad that they're failing people if they want to go back to read 30-40 year old material but then goes to say that they should still push boundaries and tell new stories as if that isn't the current plan thats causing them to fail?

Because manga’s distribution isn’t fucking retarded

>Get a life, you loser manchild.
kek, says the guy who has been wasting his live on Yea Forumsmblr since 2008

Stop phoneposting you newfaggot

So I guess the pussified prude cancer is inside you, and can't be blamed on you being from tumblr. I don't think that makes it better. Please consider committing suicide, as a favor from one oldfag to another.

are you have been on this site since 2008? You sure haven't figured out how to spot phone posters during all those years faggot

Attached: Screenshot (173).png (1920x1080, 244K)

Oh lord, I thought only zoomed phoneposters had such shit spelling and grammar.

Also psst user, I’m not him.

Hell, I am salty no one bought sideways

>Batman is a campy costumed honorary detective solving crimes of alien beings with completely ridiculous deus ex machina asspull resolutions

Fixed.

make stupid decision get bad results

Attached: 123.jpg (796x290, 97K)

>better writers

Because in six months you will have changed your mind and now call them hacks because Batman now wears a slightly different shade of color underwear.

Why wouldn't you just buy trade collections of those issues and get more for your buck? Assuming you don't already fucking own them, like most fans likely would.

Whatever Didio has planned won't work. He's helped cultivate the sorry state DC is in. The comics of old worked because they showed the hero against great challenges and coming out for the better, not always happier, but stronger.

The comics nowadays chip away at the foundations of the character using subversion without payoff and countless events that won't matter six weeks it ends. They give up their values and integrity for cheap boosts in sales and the consequence is that less people care.

I'm positive he knows this, but won't change because that would mean he'd have to admit that he was wrong.

Only retards like you get hyped by pure PR and then get mad when they realize they got hoodwinked and outed as an idiot who is easily suckered.

Yeah! When Cap was fighting thinly veiled president Richard Nixon who then committed suicide it was totally different because it was BASED when I was too young to get the reference!

>want quality

Yet these people always refuse to buy B-list titles where all the real quality always lies, and then those books get cancelled. You're full of shit.

Go back to sucking EVS' cock, why don't you.

>the west
It's only the US, eurocomics manage to create new IP and character.

Is the comic book genre doomed?

Hang yourself on stream, Ethan. DO IT!

>tfw I'm buying Hawkman because it's the best book DC is putting out but it doesn't sell enough and will probably be cancelled

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Its not West vs Manga situation. Its US vs The Rest of The Entire World situation.

>sideways
>stupid decision
Holy fuck that shit taste

All US has to do is to revamp distribution and stop relying on the lcs, but it'll never happen unless diamond totally dies

No it's not. Should be canceled though, fuck Venditti.

At least Green Lantern is selling well?

>No it's not
You're a real meanie. What's good then?

>No it's not. Should be canceled though, fuck Venditti.
Let me guess, Wallyfag?

Yeah but that's the Morrison brand.

Because anything created at DC and Marvel immediately becomes theirs. Moore has a point with his hatred of DC regarding the ownership of Watchmen (lol Doomsday Clock is still going), and it's not surprising that anyone with actual new ideas goes nowhere near the big 2.

If Moore had done Watchmen over at Marvel's Epic he'd have owned it.

It's not just big 2, as indies (Image especially) are also rolled into the Diamond system, their sales suffer

>comics in the 70s and 80s were timeless
No, but better than the 90s by a long shot, and everyone is just sick of 00s-10s because it feels like one long decade of nonstop universe-wide events and superheroes being assholes to everyone.

I mean, there ARE gems here and there regardless of the year but arguably 74-92 are the most stable years in terms of quality of the big labels

There is nothing wrong or bizarre about that quote

It wouldn't have been famous then.

Explain.

No.

>Only retards like you get hyped by pure PR and then get mad when they realize they got hoodwinked and outed as an idiot who is easily suckered

Oh look at you mister super fucking ingenious apathyfag. If this is your defense of shitty business practices you're a spineless faggot. If this is you entering a thread about a comment by a big 2 publisher in order to tell everyone buying big two comics is retarded congratulations on being the most pathetic fat faggot on this fucking board. Either way nobody gives a fuck about you faggots who imagine you're somehow more mature or in any way better than people because you're apathetic pieces of shit.

I'm so sick of you faggots. You add nothing to any discussion beside blogging about your superior disinterests.

Nah it was shit and that's why Cap was a fucking c lister until the mcu.

With Epic, the only reason the rights reverted back to the creators is because they sold like shit.

I see.

Damn, you're mad as fuck. Instead of wasting your money on funny books each month, consider buying a life.

>stop relying on the lcs
Like clockwork some retard always says this.

You do realize most books sell a fraction of what the LCSs buy, right? LCSs are the customers not the readers. You people who say this shit consistently out yourselves as not understanding sales (in this industry at least) at all. Getting rid of LCSs would mean QUITE LITERALLY cutting out the customer. It does not matter that you see them as a middle man when they make up the bulk of sales.

>wasting
I'm not though. I buy what I like.

Instead of talking about things you don't like and know nothing about while inflating your own self-worth why not just go into threads you'll add something to?

And you don't realize just how badly you paint the comic book industry? Just put it out of it's misery already.

>admit that he was wrong
Something these leftist creators are simply incapable of doing. Their entire worldview is predicated on them being 100% right 100% of the time.

You say this like an outsider looking in.

Why are there so many of you here lately?

>I don't like something so it shouldn't exist
You don't realize how selfish this sounds?

I haven't bought individual issues since before Flashpoint. I think when they ended Wally's run as the Flash was the point at which I had enough.

And yet here you are bitching about comics... that... you don't read?
Seriously, for your own good, get a life. This hobby is doing a number on your brain.

Wallyfag here. No one in comics has been more wronged. He was the only legacy character to surpass the original. They did him dirty.

You sound like a cuck. Why are there so many of you lately.

The business model is moronic. Kill the industry and rebuild it from the ground up, but the right way this time.

>He feels like their goal should be building new worlds rather than revisiting the old ones.
Is that reason why you keep the Status Quo and kill off any chances of the character from evolving, Danny?

Your tears bring me joy wallyfag. I hope they kill him iff soon.

You seem to be here to do nothing but bait.

>He was the only legacy character to surpass the original
Holy shit wallyfags are delusional. The "original" he passed was a legacy who already passed the original.

So fucking do it then faggot. Burn the industry down. Oh wait, you're the cuck sitting online bitching about something you'll never do and getting butthurt that someone would prefer you go REE in a closet with the rest of you subhuman retards. Grow a set of balls and fucking do something other than whine.

>drop truth bombs
>give genuinely friendly advice
>b-bait
Comics have fried your brain...

>genuinely friendly advice
Hang yourself faggot.

At least he is admitting he failed. Too bad he is still doubling down on why he failed.

>you're the cuck sitting online bitching
Are you talking into a mirror?

Why so angry, incel? Do you really not see how comics have negatively impacted your life?

>n-no you
Do something about the industry faggot. Don't deflect and focus on anons. Burn the industry. Fucking do it pussy. If you're so brilliant and totally not a cuck go fucking do what it is you claim to want done. Don't be a faggot. Nobody gives a fuck about your replies.

If you want the industry decimated get off the fucking computer and decimate the industry faggot. Do it.

All PR is lies. That's the job. Lie and sell shit you don't need. Don't hate the player, son, hate the game.

The fact that you repeatedly buy into the hype and get mad when you get disappointed is on you. You should know better by now. Events 99% of the time don't live up to the hype. You should only judge comics on the actual story they tell, not what hype makes you think the story is going to be. Otherwise you're nothing but a sucker who revels in their own victimhood by going back to get fooled time and time again, never smarting up.

His point was LCS are barely a thing in Europe where even mediocre comics regularly sell 4 times the amount the bestsellers in the US do. Comic-specific shops do exist in France but comics are not only sold in those kind of shops, they're regular features in big market and shops as well.

The fact US system relies on LCS is a bad thing, not a good thing for its industry. In other countries than France or Belgium, theres no comic shops at all, comics are sold either in markets and shops, or fantasy RPG tabletop hobby- kind of places.

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>>n-no you
Exactly. I called you out on sitting on your ass and bitching on the internet and then you tell me that?

You know nothing about me but I'm sure you imagine these hits are landing. This is your Saturday?

Continuity heavy stuff will always be off putting to new and casual readers

No one likes homework

>That's a failure on us
Yea I'll say, you guys are failing to write good stories

Oh you think you're so smart

Hang yourself you pathethic fucking faggot

Hard to count Barry as a true legacy since he didn'y take anything over. Barry was the first on his world. Earth-2 Flash/Jay wasn't known when Barry first became the Flash.

That is so creepy.

That's not how we do it here, faggot. Don't like it fuck off don't demand the industry bend to your selfish wills you pussy faggot.

>the right way this time
Not trying to be a dick on purpose, but what, pray tell, is "the right way" from your perspective?

I know you autistically REEEEE on a korean basket weaving forum about comic books. That's not healthy.

>"F-Fuck you, let us remain small and regurgitate the same shit over and over!"
Enjoy your decline then, dumbass burger. Donald Duck alone sells many times more in EU than the best selling capeshit comic in the US.

See or Japan.
But basically eliminate the LCD, eliminate (at least some if) the nepotism, maybe price them better and make sure the comics sell well on their own instead of doing gimmick shit like variants and shit.

>Don't hate the player, son, hate the game.
Jesus Christ kill yourself. Are you 38 sitting at home imagining you have anything of worth to add to the world? Off yourself with your tactical sunglasses on while streaming it cause that's the only enjoyable thing you have to offer.

>The fact that you repeatedly buy into the hype and get mad when you get disappointed is on you.

I don't. So you really have no leverage here. It doesn't change the fact that it's poor business to not meet your own hype. Literally nobody with a brain would disagree.

>Events 99% of the time don't live up to the hype.
Nobody claimed they did.

>You should only judge comics on the actual story they tell, not what hype makes you think the story is going to be.
You've stumbled upon a nugget of truth. Broken clocks and all that...

>Otherwise you're nothing but a sucker who revels in their own victimhood by going back to get fooled time and time again, never smarting up.
Your point again rests on assuming I buy this trash and don't simply understand poor business practices when I see them.

Comparing an industry that doesn't look at comics as children's stuff to one that does is disingenuous.

Because I'm not the one demanding an entire industry be demolished and everyone stop talking about it.

You'd love for me to be the hypocrite but your on a comics and cartoons board demanding everyone stop discussing the industry unless they want it destroyed. Grow up.

The name is the legacy user.

Imagining they need to have appeared together or been a sidekick is imagine after the silver age. Barry and Hal are absolutely legacies.

Is he starring in billion dollar movies?

Sit down and be humble.

>Comparing an industry that doesn't look at comics as children's stuff to one that does is disingenuous.
Not when you're looking for solutions on how US comic market could become bigger. The attitude surrounding comics themselves should simply change.

You seem to think diminishing returns aren't preferable to nothing.

Calm down, doofus. Buy yourself a brain.

>Is he starring in billion dollar movies?
We're in Yea Forums, not Yea Forums. Fuck off with your off-topic. Also he does in fact feature in a cartoon universe franchise that is a trillion dollar business all over the entire world.

Explain how we change American culture to accept comics as a form.

This has nothing to do with LCSs that is my point.

Grow up.

they ruin everything good they have,red hood comic is a shadow of what it was at the beggining of rebirth and theres a bunch of examples like that

Why does he need to calm down.

>cause he's going crazy

So what? You clearly intended that so why do you care?

What makes you think reforming has to mean complete destruction of everything? Make half the LCS's become general tabletop/rpg hobby shop hybrids, while at the same time extending the LCS "License" to already established rpg shops.

Also start negotiating distribution rights with big market chains. This is fucking Warner Bros and Disney we're talking about, they certainly have the money to do big reforms in the US comic industry. Just not the brain and none of the motivation to do so. Start sacking and replacing the incompetent old guard in the comic department until they do.

I didn't demand people stop discussing comics, you moron. I'm saying that this dying industry could be doing a lot better than it is but you're an ignorant retard that wants things to stay the same. I bet you get angry when you see someone calling capefags old idiots with no life living in the past.

Explain how removing the LCS does anything to help the industry.

Same to you.

>Explain how we change American culture to accept comics as a form.
Start introducing them more in their daily lives. Clearly theres an interest for superheroes in the mainstream, as the movies suggest. Hire actually competent writers and artists and stop charing 5 dollars for a few pages of talking heads doing nothing. Take notes from how the french and how even the japs do things, what makes their shit mainstream-popular.

Explain specifically the steps to take tocnake it better. Stop calling people retarded and make your point.

Are you genuinely autistic? Do you really need the same thing told to you over and over again? Ignorant buffoon...

>no you, again

You mistake removing to reforming. LCS are dying, so they need to change or die. You're the one suggesting they should remain stagnant and die a slow death, not me.

>replies with no u
>gets booty blasted when he gets a no u reply
lmao

Not sure that's the answer but creating a more open playing field would be ideal.

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>name is the legacy
No, it's a name/gimmick. Not the same as a legacy character. Barry did not assume the mantle from Jay like Dick, Kyle, Wally, or Connor assumed mantles. Those are legacy characters.

>Start introducing them more in their daily lives.
I'm really not trying to be an asshole in saying this but you can't be serious. Most of marvels books and most Tom King issues of Batman are exactly this. For you to say this honestly colors your perspective as completely uninformed.

>Hire actually competent writers and artists and stop charing 5 dollars for a few pages of talking heads doing nothing.
This contradicts wanting to see their daily lives and if you think they aren't paying out the ass for their art already you're mistaken. Sadly art is overpriced these days and the mediocre artists are the only ones who haven't priced themselves off of monthly gigs.

>Take notes from how the french and how even the japs do things, what makes their shit mainstream-popular.
By having a larger and more receptive audience toward comics? Which is what I'm asking about.

Any more "solutions"?

>Le autism
Cute.

Imagine I am if you must. Bullet list your suggestions even I don't care. There hasn't been a single specific suggestion other than the user I replied to just above.

What are the exact, specific changes they need to make?

No, that's your imagining of the term and it's based on imagining the "originals" as exactly that. They aren't and the separate earth concept was a retcon.

Plenty of movies and tv shows have been riding on nostalgia, so it's quite surprising to me why the comics aren't trying to do the same.
I've been reading 60's Amazing Spider-Man lately, and I absolutely love the aesthetic of it. Sure, older comics are way too over-written and packed with mostly unnecessary commentary, but I think a modern day writer could easily make the ride a lot slicker.

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>Sadly art is overpriced these days
This is a major problem. So many "good" (not great) artists think they should be making 100-200 a page and you can tell they're completing one or two a day with how simple and shitty they are.

>Most of marvels books and most Tom King issues of Batman are exactly this.
No, I meant start introducing comic books more in non-comic specific shops, if you want people to start treating comics as more than just kids thing. Start introducing comic books more in the daily lives of normal people so they accept the medium.
>What are the exact, specific changes they need to make?
I listed them, and you misread them, hopefully not intentionally so.

It wasn't intentional though I did misread your point. I don't disagree with having more points of distribution but then it gets into returnability and ordering barriers. LCSs are a symptom at this point not the cause. Publishers refusing to risk the loss and instead demanding retailers buy on the front as if they're selling crack is the problem.

You should know by now that you're talking to a brick wall. What I mean by that is that he's as dumb as a sack of bricks.

Why yes

One can only dream

This doesn't help. user actually replied and here you are being a faggot. Stop derailing just to be a cunt.

>Old comics = silver age and nothing else

Retards

>your imagining of the term
Here's the definition of Legacy Hero:
"A legacy hero is a type of character, usually a superhero, that is the descendant or relative of an already or previously existing hero who either inherits or adopts the name and attributes of the original."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_hero
By this logic the original must ecist within the same story or unicersal framework. The examples you cited do not work because Jay Garrick and Alan Scott were unknown to both Barry and Hal when they became heroes. There's no mantle to pass or assume in those cases. The fact that those were later retconned does not make you right, especially considering the initial continuity had existed. Wally assumed the mantle of the Flash following Barry's sacrifice in the Crisis, that was not changed.

Euro and Nip markets deal with it. The US industry refuses to change because contrary to what Yea Forums cries, they think it’s doing well enough. The only way it can change is another huge crash

Certainly, which is why I was pointing out the problem is not so much monetary-related, but a huge attitude problem with the big two. The real reform should start inside of them, basically fire 95% of their entire staff and replace them with competitive marketers, publishers, writers and creators. Who are also willing to take notes from what their european and japanese counterparts are doing right.

Meanwhile LCS shops who complain about going bankrupt can save themselves by turning themselves into more general geek-hobby kind of places. Set up tables for Warhammer and MTG, one wall for western comics (not just US but french fantasy, sci-fi), one for japanese stuff to attract the weeaboos. This is essentially how "comic book shops" survive in Europe. They're also partially either antiquarians or general rpg hobbyist kind of places.

Thread is full of actual replies and you're covering your ears screaming lalalalala as more and more lcs shut down but the model is fine, the model is king. Doesn't matter that band desinee or manga thrive without them, change is bad.

This is your brain on Big 2. There are hundreds of legacy characters who's only connection is their name. Hal and Barry are legacies user. Since Wally is "your flash" (since kev smith said it and you faggots latched on) you imagine him as the legacy that surpassed the original. The silver age relaunches beat them too it and the various golden age heroes that were replaced by different people with their same gimmick are also legacies.

I don't give a fuck about a wiki article citing CBR as a source.

While true, this is a fact about all people in power.

Explain how they deal with it. Specifically do so. What do they do differently that you'd like to see US publishers do?

>them with competitive marketers, publishers, writers and creators. Who are also willing to take notes from what their european and japanese counterparts are doing right.
What, specifically would make them more "competitive"?

>Meanwhile LCS shops who complain about going bankrupt can save themselves by turning themselves into more general geek-hobby kind of places.
Many do others don't. That's a side issue that deserves its own thread. I'd prefer to focus on industry and publisher tactics.

It isn't, or rather wasn't until I stoked a few within the last half hour. Quote any from before that.

I've literally responded to anything that gave a specific.

>Who are also willing to take notes from what their european and japanese counterparts are doing right.
What are those notes?

>I don't give a fuck about a wiki article
user, my con law prof would bring wiki articles on important cases for reference. At the very least provide a source supporting your definition. Just saying I'm wrong doesn't make it true.

CBR isn't a source user.

EC didn't close immediately and their downfall was actually caused by the big two (and Archie, desu)

I didn't cite CBR

You didn't take constitutional law if you're this dumb.

You cited a wiki article who's source was CBR.

>people don't like to read our stuff full of SJW shit
>I think the problem is that we don't have enough SJW shit
I mean, he could be right but what is the possibility of him actually being right? Can anyone tell me?

The fact that you view comics like this IS the reason comics are dying.

Old comic: Good guy vs Bad guy, good art, fun stories, patriotism, epic fights, no moral relativism, cheesecake,

New comic: sort of good guy vs kind of bad guy, shit art, boring stories, fuck america we were the REAL bad guys all along , disappointing impact-less fights, LOL genocidal maniacs and terrorists are redeemable because of le complicated past, here's an amorphous fat-positive gender neutral flesh blob you fucking misogynist

>rumors recently that DC was going to stop making new comics.

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>Facts aren't facts
Listen guy. I will acknowledge that a wiki article isn't a great source but it's still a source. You have yet to provide anything supporting your position. If you can provide a link to a better definition from a better source I will gladly concede your point but until then no dice. At least I'm providing something to support my position.

That's not a fact, numbnuts.

post-modernism was a mistake

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>Moving forward
>Pushing boundaries
>finding new stories to tell

This is all beating around the bush but the fact of the matter is that a lot of those stories just end up reading better because a) they weren't decompressed stories stretched out so that one arc can fill a trade or b) not written knowing that the title isn't going to make it past issue 12

So much of what is wrong with storytelling in comics is that the market has outgrown the monthly format but the industry is so heavily structured around it that they can't change.

Preptime Bats is the only Batman anyone wants and its fucking boring. The entire Batfamily has been flanderized to hell and back, yet no one knows what to do with them that's fresh without pissing off the lunkhead "diehard" fans.

>namecalling instead of defending one's position
Nice.

This. There are no "good" writers anymore because fans are too fucking fickle, editorial are more interested in fads and shock value, and the general public gave up on comics in the 90s.

People really don't appreciate artistic work at the time it comes out

>fuck america we were the REAL bad guys all along
America was and is still the bad guys. It's just that people now are smart enough and have enough information to notice it. But alas we still have people that will defend america to their dying breath even if the america they like all long started to slowly kill them all for the sake of profit. Fuck america. FUCK THE US OF A.

>America was and is still the bad guys.
America is the least bad of the bad guys though. No one is any better.

The format is brilliant, just because moronic burgers can't pace for shit doesnt change this.

I Mean you clearly have political disagreements with many normal people if you think like this. The problem if they're selling comics to nutcases like you rather than to relatively normal people.

I see the land of opportunity, one so awful that people are willing to walk 6,000 miles barefoot through inhospitable deserts and jungles to be oppressed in, has done you wrong. I too, welcome our inevitable Chinese overlords, you know the ones busy colonizing Africa and systematically exterminating ethnic minorities in their own lands. It's gonna be much, much better for everybody. It's gonna be like having a tough, but fair, boot pushing down on our necks for the rest of eternity! That's REAL freedom, justice, and equality!

Aside from this absolutely retarded "the comic book industry was never politically motivated until SJWs existed" shit, it's more that they don't want to hire anyone who will make something they can't market to whatever new demographic they think will mindlessly eat up whatever is easiest to shit out.

The "Diversity" shit didnt sell because the market they were trying to hook finally caught on that they'd never actually go whole hog and make any of the characters more than "LOOK, I'M A [insert minirity here] WHO CAN MEME!".

America has a long list of victims that never warranted being invaded by the Superpower. Vietnam, Philippines, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Panama etc. weren't a threat to America and in the case of the Philippines, allied with America in a previous war against the Spanish. America still invaded, conquered, and slaughtered millions of Filipinos for opposing their imperialist agenda. I'm all for protecting and having pride for one's cultural heritage, but you have to recognize a nation's faults and realize the problems of the State that claims to represent their national interests.

>with many normal people
You mean dumb americans? Normal people know better.

What do you know about freedom? America censors everything.

You don't actually think this is a recent trend, do you...?

You shouldn't have supported the 80s paradigm shift then, idiot. Comics stopped being sugar plums and fairy floss when everyone started aping MiracleMan, Watchmen, DKR, and everything proto-Vertigo was doing.

I didn't. Those are stupid pseudo intellectual comics for stupid pseudo intellectuals.

Yet they set the stage for what comics are now. People bought into 90s edge and 2000s cynicism, people bought all the major event comics, people bought any issue that promised shocks, thrills, and something new. If you wanted all this to go away, you should have only been supporting the old reprints and never bought anything new.

>America censors everything.

Bitch please, muh nsa, muh fbi, muh porn stash!

You're like a little baby. If you ever text a chinese guy "june 4th tiananmen square massacre" The CCP will make sure he doesn't spread any more lies about the glorious Chinese "republic" ever again.

Please tell me more about what happens in other countries, fatty, you clearly know better than the people living there. Don't forget to reee about nudity in something labeled as mature.

DC cancels 30% of the trades they announce

I was once a little edgelord who liked ultra violence but who the hell wants to pay 5 bucks to be lectured on their white privilege and sexism?

>Please tell me more about what happens in other countries

I know getting stoned in Saudi Arabia isn't something you'd be looking to try.

>this absolutely retarded "the comic book industry was never politically motivated until SJWs existed" shit
It's retarded because you're looking at the argument without the specifics. And you underestimate how divisive politics have become in current year.

When critics on Yea Forums or twitter or youtube say "there were no politics until SJWs" they mean the IDENTITY politics, the strawman arguments, the amateurish allegories, and the subliminal messaging with the subtlety of a ton of bricks hitting glass.

Politics in comics back in the day were handled with more objectivity and nuance. They appealed to the reader who hadn't picked sides. I'm excluding WWII propaganda here because those type of politics were the exception. And the propaganda of that period was actually in SUPPORT of the country, not against it like we see today.

Now we see comic book politics preach AT readers. They have selected their choir audience and have chosen to listen only to the echoes of the church halls. There is no more objectivity. If you disagree with their faith, and if you voted for Trump, you're fucking done. There has never been a point like that in comic book history. Never.

>ruins Batman and Wally with King
>ruins Superman with Bendis
>ruins Justice League with Snyder Tynion and Orlando
>ruins Aquaman with DeConnick
>ruins Wonder Woman with a series of bad writers
>ruins Vertigo with Khouri's awful friends
They need a near-linewide housecleaning (not a short-term bandaid-fix reboot or a rearranging of chairs on the deck of the Titanic) but that's not going to happen.

Some decades have worse story (40s), some have worse politics (70s), some have worse art (90s), and some have worse sales (50s) but the 10s (and likely the 20s) are the absolute nadir of capeshit.

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Jay Garrick gets acknowledged in Barry's very first appearance though, but as a fictional character who inspired him. Really if someone suddenly retconned a previous super hero into fiction nowadays for a legacy character it'd get a huge backlash.

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>ruins Aquaman with DeConnick
>ruins Aquaman

Now hold on just a minute, are you seriously insinuating Aquaman was ever good? His interactions with Black Manta are pretty funny but that hardly makes it "good".

>ruins Justice League with Snyder Tynion and Orlando
What is a better JL run? You'd need to go all the way back to Morrison. They're hardly ruining anything in this case.

Because good comic writers would rather write their own shit than be encumbered by a bunch of editorial mandates for characters that old than them and have a creative well that dried up long ago.

>Politics in comics back in the day were handled with more objectivity and nuance
That's a zoomer mentality.

>are you seriously insinuating Aquaman was ever good
Read PAD

Agreed, but I don't think that's enough to concretely make Barry a "legacy character" by definition.

Johns revitalized Aquaman with the New 52 though sure it's been a while since then.
I liked the character interactions in Priest's arc once he got a handle on the characters, though the problem was with its Marvel-esque plot. There was also a brief period of time where Johns was good with Forever Evil and the beginning of Darkseid War up until the point where he started spinning his wheels and dropping all the subplots he set up because he was leaving and didn't care anymore.

"Ruined" is such a fun word because it can mean less than nothing.

I fully understand the divisive nature of modern politics and how a genre that was primarily geared towards children up until the 80s used to be nuanced about it. What I'm getting at it that is that all of the politicking in comics is purely for the sake of easy money and not for the sake of genuine discussion.

You want to make easy controversy bucks in the 40s? Put a half naked women about to be mashed by a buck-toothed Japanazi on the cover. The 60s? Have a black character standing over a whote character. The 90s? A beloved hero dying. Now? A woman wearing shirt that says "Kill all Cis". Chances have ALWAYS been that the story inside has little to nothing to actually say about what the cover was selling. And the less nuanced politics get in real life, the more reatrdedly shocking shock covers have to be bait people.

Barry's a rebooted character, not a legacy one.

>America has a long list of victims
>you have to recognize a nation's faults

Only America's though. Mexico for example, has a rich cultural heritage of blood sports, ritual murder,slavery, genocide, rape, and pillaging but the Mexican people deserve to be proud of their corrupt cartel country and don't you dare ever claim otherwise bigot. VIVA MEHICO, FUCK THE SUDACAS

Agreed, but that other user was trying to claim Barry as well as Hal are in fact legacy characters.

The question is, does Mexico pretend like none of that ever happened and tries to actively silence anyone who points it out?

One of those is a woman so I wouldn't refer to them as real authors

Is there anything in your life that you don't view through the "muh women, SJWs, and libruls"
lens? You myopic fuck.

When people talk about old batman they are talking about Dennis O'Neil stuff

This current model of corporations enraging people to generate publicity and sales is going to backfire massively as the social division, anger, and hatred caused by it continues to grow and bleed into all areas of society. They are very literally destroying their host culture like a parasite to spur short term sales.

can something be good when it has terrible art?

>does Mexico pretend like none of that ever happened and tries to actively silence anyone who points it out?

Of course, it doesn't really matter though. It doesn't really matter that they openly discriminate against South Americans and see them as inferior, or that they owned black slaves, or stole land from native Americans, or live in one of the most violent countries on earth to just name a few noteworthy achievements. At best you get a meh, yeah whatever it happened, who cares. What, you actually think these people feel any sort of shame or remorse for these things? For what their ancestors did? Any little bit at all? Haha, It's hilarious to me that you probably do. But please, prove me wrong. I'll wait. Show me some "Mexican guilt".

You cucks wank to stuff with terrible story and mediocre art like Immortal Hulk and Snyderbats so yeah

That sounds more like he's saying they need to make new comic good

But not for the comics they're making these facsimiles out of. You know why? Because they're considered classics and there's media synergy for them.

They are not.

It is though. You just see Wally as "the" legacy character and thus refuse to accept that Barry in fact already was.

Did the big, bad Hulk story hurt your feelings? It's ok, you're still a big, strong man that nobody ever laughs at.

DC made Cap America comics? Who knew.

>Did the big, bad Hulk story hurt your feelings?
Yeah, that time he made the scary face was just too intense for me

Fucking marveldrone... you are seriously comparing Joe fucking Bennett with Greg Capullo...

Yes they are. They aren't talking about silver age shit

Moron. They read Miller and Conway and Fox and fucking Dixon. O'Neil is respected by people that know their shit but most comic book readers don't know their shit.

Threadly reminder that in the US, American comics far outsell manga.
In the Franco-Belgian market (arguably a healthier market), manga sell about as much as the local output.
You weebs need to reevaluate your arguments, this isn't 2010.

Numbers.

>WB/Time-Warner/Whatever at the time was threatening to close down DC comics and just do reprints of books if they didn’t increase their profits

Source? Oh wait of course you don't have on because you pulled it out of your ass.

>There were rumors recently that DC was
going to stop making new comics.

Source? Oh wait you don't have one because you also pulled it of your ass. You know the rumor was the opposite right? That Disney was going to shut down marvel.

cosmicbook.news/disney-shutting-down-marvel-comics


See, I actually have a source unlike you.


>DC by itself throws off BILLIONS of dollars of gross income YEARLY.

Source? Oh wait, I know you are full of shit because I have articles saying literally the opposite

comicsbeat.com/dcs-diane-nelson-dc-properties-bring-in-8-billion-in-licensing/
Idiot pajeets that believe any unsourced bullshit that feeds into their LE EPIC COMPANY WARS! Try reading some actual comics instead of getting caught up in a meaningless meta narrative invented by corporations to get you to buy more product.

Marveldrones collectively and universally btfo.

Just look them up. You seemed fine assuming the opposite without proof so why would I spoonfeed.

On that note, did anyone ever ask Mockingbird about her feminist agenda?

O'Neil is the one who did all the league of assasins Ra's shit that everyone loves.

>Source? Oh wait you don't have one because you also pulled it of your ass. You know the rumor was the opposite right? That Disney was going to shut down marvel.
As another user pointed out I was remembering it wrong, I recently heard that story but it was about before the New 52 not in the last couple years
I’m not a fucking Marvel drone, since Infinite Crisis I have had at least a dozen DC books on my pull list up until around the time Rebirth was abandoned and now I’m down to 10. Most of them aren’t even that good but I still buy them out of habit and because I’ve become a completist and I know another relaunch for most of these titles is around the corner so if I drop them I will then so I have a complete run. Unless they become good again then I’ll keep them on. My point being I’m pretty much the definition of a DC drone.

Shit you replied to that user and not me. Whatever my point still stands, and don’t have the source but Didio himself said it. It could be bullshit to justify his actions but whatever.

so the editorial people at DC are to blame for everything going south?
Honestly I think AT&T should just clean house and fire almost everyone at DC

>>against the country like we see today

Why do people like you think that anything that criticizes anything America did must be anti - American. This country was literally created because people criticised the way things were.

Ra's al Ghul isn't that popular.

Not true. I see Wally as part of a greater movement that actually had promise. Kyle, Connor, Dick, to a lesser extent, Kon-El had the potential to become as ingrained as Wally if DC had stuck with it. Instead they got cold feet and went back to Bruce, Hal, and Ollie. That said, the only way I would acknowledge Barry as a legacy would be if Jay had existed in Barry's world prior to him becoming the Flash. As the other user pointed out (with actual evidence) Jay was a fictional character in Barry's world and as such was merely the inspiration, it was not a mantle that Jay handed him. By your logic, Mar-Vell would be a legacy character from the Fawcett Captain Marvel/Shazam despite the characters never existing in the same world or interacting at all.

The biggest mistake was actually "killing" Wally during Infinite Crisis and replacing him with Bart. I don't think the Flash book fully recovered from that, which was why they were willing to have Barry come back.

>20+ years that are steep in political commentary and are always trying to be the end all be all event
>vs fun stories about your favorite hero overcoming personal challenges

gee I don't fucking know

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>New comic:
Batgod and drama
>Old Comic:
Batman and friends

Bart had a nice little run. I wasn't 100% sold but it wasn't terrible. Honestly they axed Wally when things were getting interesting. Jae and Iris were an interesting foible and showed true character growth.

>not 'people really like our older shit'
Older comics are gateway comics. Nobody's gonna jump syraight onboard and read Superman without reading Last Son or All Star. They need to get aquainted with the characters in an age when every writer assumes you know what you're getting into. Imagine reading Mister Miracle without at least knowing about Fourth World and the like. You'd be confused as fuck. As always, DiDio fails to see the bigger picture.

The newer comics mostly pander to movie watchers who have never read or seen a comic book before and the better ones don't have good marketing since it is new and different.

>pander to movie watchers
then why the fuck did Marvel try to replace every single character that movie watchers knew about

didn't use to be like that user, it's a stark contrast from the 80s 90s and even 00s. Most sales came from people wanting to stay with the new stories and play catch up later. What happen was the new stories became such a convoluted mess that buyers bailed out into reading older trades than trying to make senes of Civil War 2 or Batman Metal

At&at will want to raise the price more than what it is worth.
Also didn't marvel try to by dc before then us government stepped in to stop it?

Aren't we talking about detective comics comics?

true but i'm just bringing up that marvel doesn't give a single fuck.

These are the only comics I buy frequently:
The Tick
Atomic Robo
Manhattan Projects
Superior Spider-Man

Occasionally I might buy DC for whatever Grant Morrison or Geoff Johns push.
Snyder is a recent favorite but the problem is that comics fear to stray away from known franchises, that is to say, give an actual conclusion to their characters.

For example, even Naruto has moved forward in the last decade further than most comics do, Dc keeps bringing up Barry Allen when the guy would be what? Older than Jay?

I agree with everything you say, just wanted to add that I would personaly put the 10's at "worse politics" not for the actual political material per see, but by the execution of said material.
Anyway, solid post.

I really don't see the point in buying floppies. They have ads and take up too much room. Are the DC trades selling well?

How the fuck are you buying the Tick frequently when it doesn't frequently publishes new comics, user?
teach me your ways, I want more Tick

>they move things forward
>then retcon them again
HMMMMMMMMMMM

But user how can we streamline hings for new comers if we don't go "Nothing really matters, let's restart all the stories for these 80 year old characters"?

they need to slow down on the events, they really scare newer readers away

DCeased is basically Contagion mixed with Marvel Zombies. King practically copied Identity crisis wholesale with minor tweaks. A lot of the current stories are straight retreads that you can easily recognize.

or maybe stop reviving popular characters, keep printing the most popular stories and allow new characters and stories to come in and out. Support the indie industry and get it out of "indie" to mainstream.

>or maybe stop reviving popular characters
But user, how do you expect the writers to be disturbing little sweatgoblins if they're not allowed to bring back the characters they gratuitiously kill off every five minutes?

>Also didn't marvel try to by dc before then us government stepped in to stop it?
No. In the late 1970s (after the DC implosion), WB was thinking about leasing out ten titles to Marvel to produce. Not sell the characters, but lease them out.
The deal was being worked on before it fell through. I've heard Byrne had something to do with it. Jim Shooter's written about it before.

>allow new characters and stories to come in and out
Those happen all the time and they're never commercially successful.

Sadly, yes

I didn't know Brother Power and the New Guardians were published in the las 5 years.

I haven't bought a new DC comic in like four or five years. I gave up after a year or two of New52. I tried a few books during that DC You softboot. Then I just gave up. I heard about Rebirth, supposedly trying to win fans like me who hated New52 back, but figured it wouldn't last. It didn't.

What good is a reboot if you have the same fucking morons running it that painted DC into this corner in the first place?

Attached: suicidesquad-new52-3100788-.jpg (832x1280, 193K)

This. I'll probably always be a lifelong DC fan but they've been utter shit since the reboot. Easily the most unnecessary reboot in fiction. I'll gladly start buying new DC books when they stop sucking ass and fix the goddamn universe already.

Based
Fuck new comics and FUCK new readers!

The villains in the first two absolutely mad issues of New Guardians were a vampire that gave people AIDS and a guy powered by cocaine. The kind of thing that everyone except prudes can laugh at.

Based rage poster

Based.

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>Marvel 30 years ago
Heroes saving the day
>Marvel now
heroes ruining the day

>DC 30 years ago
Heroes saving the day
>DC now
Mexican soap operas

Attached: Electromagnetic Pollution.png (1903x1063, 2.12M)

It is pathetic that Joe Hill, the horror writer, has more respect for DC’s past and fans than Dan Didio whining about wanting to kill the past.

That doesn't follow my logic at all because unlike the two Flashes, mar-vell isn't part of the same company. Why are you wallyfags such insufferable and demanding casuals?

Official wikis with 10-20 key issues.

They do publish the tick. Bunn wrote some recently.

Not that guy but you're lying to yourself if you think he had no truth to what he said. Old comics weren't always the best but they weren't foot in mouth terribly written ad based pieces of scrap paper. Most new comics don't have soul and have she stuff in it for the sake of peoples sjw opinions. Not all, but a lot of it really is.

Attached: spidey_0.jpg (596x453, 83K)

Less sjw stuff

Why does it matter what company they're in? According to you, characters don't have to exist in the same fictional universe to be considered a legacy, why does the publisher matter? Also, you STILL have yet to provide a source for your definition. Headcanon is not a source, user.

user the Flashes literally do.

Why are you so mad that Barry is a legacy? Nobody gives a fuck that you don't think he is. He always has been.

>the Flashes literally do
Literally do what? I'm not mad, you're refusing to back up your argument. I clearly demonstrated why Barry Allen is not a legacy using an established definition from a third-party source. Rather than provide an alternatively sourced definition to back up your position you continue to use the rhetorical equivalent of "nuh-uh."

>American comics far outsell manga.

Because there's more diverse stories in American comics an in generic romcom/shonen/highschool manga no. 4325748

New stories w old characters > Stale stories w new characters

The only good mangas tend to be the ones that are less Japanese: Monster, Berserk, etc

Nice source you provided.

You're just describing shonen vs. seinen

>Nice source you provided
Seems to be a theme in this thread...

oh please

I've bought plenty of DC since.. just old trades and old issues. Not even newly printed trades. You can find old trades for decent prices. Even bought a bunch of old Batman trades and issues for my cousin's kid because there is no way in hell I'm buying him anything published in the last decade.

West = uses negativity to engage with fans
East = engages with fans positively

Gee, I wonder why no one want to buy capeshit

>Old comics weren't always the best but they weren't foot in mouth terribly written ad based pieces of scrap paper
I can't tell you haven't read many comics.

Consider the following.

Attached: ending comic manga mockingbird yugioh.jpg (1109x1200, 285K)

This isn't a source. Barry is a legacy retard. How new are you?

I work at a comic shop and I will be the first to say that shops are cancer if what you want is to grow your readership.

>You will always have creeps coming in who scare off the normies. these dudes never leave, always seem to be broke and insist on sharing their shitty opinions.


>flippers will buy out your stock of an issue as soon as you open on wednesday morning if anything remotely interesting happens.

So you have to tell the father and son who were casually following a series that you don't have the next issue for them and that it's going on ebay for 20 bucks.

>oh you want to collect a series? we'll we have issues 2,3, 5, and 9 in our backissues. good luck filling out your run, maybe amazon has the TPB in stock!


Manga grew in popularity here in the US because you can walk into any barnes and noble and find it sitting on the shelf. Comics got themselves stuck into a shitty position where the trades compete against the issues and the issues are a relatively fixed supply that suffers from price fluctuations.

A serious reader/collector can bite the bullet to buying a 20 dollar issue, a casual one will "wait for the trade" and forget about the series altogether. Eventually they forget about the hobby.

I'm not certain if the big retailers like B&N go through diamond but I suspect they don't. Remember superman: Earth One? it was a huge sensation, even normies were buying it up. they didnt care about future value. They just wanted a kickass comic in their hands.

It was also a graphic novel that released directly to the big bookstores, and not just shitty stripmall holes in the wall. If the big two want to grow their market and expand to new readers then that is how you go out and get them. because as long as a book comes out in issue format, people will always feel like TPB's are an inferior product, but at the same time- no sane person would ever ride the masochistic rollercoaster that is collecting comics without a pull box.

>laughing in text

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How is it?

A lot of New 52 was retreads with stupid twists and tweak throw in (let's kill BOTH Martha and Jon before Clark goes to college; let's give Bruce a gazillion Robin's plus a ten year old asshole even though he looks 30 at the most).

The biggest problem is it's retreads from crap stories, "controversial" at best, not retreads of classic stories' themes.

Comics should be cheaper

>Dan says that there are disturbing trends in the marketplace, such as the variant cover programs

Seems legit, Marvel are charging $99 for a blank red cover

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who wants to read the censored feminist shit DC and Marvel publish these days?

At least Cap still punched nazis who had big fat titties back then. Meanwhile the Cap of "current year" has to be saved by a multi cultural team of strong independent women who can´t go 5 seconds without talking about feminism or sexism.

>New comic: sort of good guy vs kind of bad guy, shit art, boring stories, fuck america we were the REAL bad guys all along
I honestly could accept that if the characters were at least still likable, interesting or sexy- SJWs have turned comics into a gay strip club like environment where all the men are submissive and run around naked while the women are ugly both inside and out.

all their male writers need a daily force injection of Testosteron. Maybe then King can last long enough to write a Batman issue without starting to cry.

Still waiting for you to produce something, anything that backs up your claim. Just because you personally think something does not make it true. Barry is a reboot, not a legacy.

Remember the comic series in which Superman walk through the US and one time stopped Louise from publishing an article about how an old factory was no longer meeting the environmental requirements. Superman did this because he knew that the factory was the only employer within miles and it shutting down would have left hundreds of family without income.
Here we have a political charged story which shows both sides in a fair way. Something that would make sjws of today reee in agony.

the problem isn't that DC can't get better writers if they wanted. The problem is that DC no longer wants to make stories that 99% of traditional comic buyers would enjoy.
They are so obsessed with being woke and progressive that they no longer care about making money

YOU HAVENT BACKED YOUR CLAIM THAT HE ISNT YOU FUCKING AUTIST

THIS IS WHY EVERYONE HATES WALLY AND WALLYFAGS I WOULD DO ANYTHING TO WATCH A VIDEO OF YOU SLASHING YOUR OWN THROAT YOU FUCKING RETARD

Not very good because Bunns a faggot.

>Superman is okay with a factory polluting the surrounding environment because muh jobs

Not muh Superman.

Imagine being this much of a hysterical sensationalist asshole who is completely delusional and ill informed about what type of comics is overwhelming being sold every month.

He is a Superman, just not appeasing to your faggot ass. Best take would be he'd find a way to fix the factory to minimize environmental destruction while creating more jobs for the workers.
Shut up reddit
DC is shit because they keep hiring guys like King and Bendis and push Batman and Batman related characters all the time.

Fine, how about this definition from TV Tropes:
"A Legacy Character is a character whose identity is passed down to them from an older character in the form of a title, job or persona for the newer character to assume."
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LegacyCharacter
Key phrase is "passed down to them" meaning that the two characters must physically exist within the same story/universe. When Barry Allen assumes the mantle of the Flash, the Jay Garrick character is fictional within the confines of Barry's world. Ergo, he develops the Flash identity independently while using a fictional character as inspiration. This makes him a reboot, not a legacy.
I'm sorry that Webster's doesn't cover comics, but I've now cited TWO sources with links. You can dispute the validity of the sources all you like but until you provide an alternative, more CREDIBLE source which supports your assertion you must concede the point. Otherwise, you are arguing in bad faith and poor form.

>DC is shit because they keep hiring guys like King and Bendis and push Batman and Batman related characters all the time.
yeah it's totally because DC only focuses on a few very popular characters and not due to them emasculating their male heroes at every chance they get

He isn't saying like that. He is just salty that audiences prefer old stuff over the new woke shit. He is stealth calling people bigoted and old fashioned

>He is stealth calling people bigoted and old fashioned
This. He can't be wrong or his entire worldview collapses.

I don't think they're as far gone as Marvel though.

>emasculating

Where's my "Yea Forums complains that DC sucks" bingo card when I need it...

if they really want this industry to survive and grow then they would stop hiring people who clearly hate white men aka the biggest demographic who buys comics and stop only writing stories which shit on white men and censor the things they love

Marvel is just as bad as DC overall Thor and Batman have both been emasculated at the same rate

Have you ever met a person in real life that was the embodiment of everything wrong with the comic industry today, and the shit taste faggot who hasn't read nearly anything before 2011 enabler that supports bad creative decisions? Because I did yesterday. And I realized "shit, THIS GUY is the reason why DC is part of the reason DC is so shit lately. This is the new DC demograpic". It's like meeting a dumb shill/blind fanboy on here, only now there's a face to them

Attached: 1503900564717.gif (500x418, 957K)

It's true for the most part with American comics.

The fact is that the US comic market doesn't have the same demand as, say, the Japanese one. Furthermore, most Japanese publishers are either independent or exist as comic arms of book publishing houses. Unlike DC and Marvel, they actually have to worry about turning a profit to continue existing, were Marvel and DC, while profitable, can basically just exist in perpetuity as the private clubs for themselves. People may cite sales and such but when a single one of the larger Japanese publishers has more staff, more artists and talent, and more support people on their payroll than the top three American companies, something is up.

Right now the bulk of comics in the US go to a shrinking market of small shops which are constantly going out of business, rather than to newsagents, supermarkets, normal bookstores and such. I've seen Walmarts in the US put out three packs of older comics so don't tell me they can't distribute it. Most French supermarkets have a little book section near the entrance that is stuffed full of comics.

>make a 20 page comic with bad writing and art full of purple hair politics and charge 4.50 plus tip
>why isn't anyone buying these thjngs?

Do a big purge of the current writers and artists when they fuck up, retire characters and continuously bring new blood, books and comics into the place. Keep it flowing, then when you get a good idea, support it for the natural length, and then move on. Right now the major problem with American comics from a creative perspective is that they're produced by a tiny amount of people constantly feeding off each other and regurgitating the same things over and over. No one out of lock step with the other. Furthermore, they're comfortably because not only are they selling 'enough' to justify them going, but the artists and writers now are typically very much friends with the editors, so even very poor performing books are kept on alongside those that do well because of essentially nepotism. Add in the security of being owned by Warner andDisney for DC and Marvel and you have a position where they're happy to just sit and fester.

So what to do? Open the doors. Bring in a load of new talent. New editors, maybe even editors who have never worked in comics but are professionals and know how to do their jobs. Open up massive talent competitions, submissions; there's so many bloody artists around these days who could make the grade easily. Also the same for writers. Copy what the Japanese do in terms of contests, yearly applications, have talent scouts search the internet for webcomics and such. Then, once 'done' (and it's never done, it's an ongoing process), here's how you do it. You don't assign characters to people. You ask them if they want to work on legacy characters or new characters. Then they send in submissions and basically pitch their idea. Once the best ideas have been selected, then set them to work and retire the characters who haven't been mentioned. Don't kill them off, don't have a stupid event, just leave them alone until someone wants to use them again. FURTHERMORE dump the connected universe concept. It can still be used, but not mandatory.

None of this effects the fact that the comics are crap. I don't care about the films; I've not seen a superhero film since the Nolan stuff. I care about COMICS.

This. The most amazing thing is that DC and Marvel perhaps alone in the comic book world have the unique position where they CAN ACTUALLY DO THIS. They're priceless as banks of IPs, they're owned by megacorporations who make billions of their properties on a yearly basis. They should be able to take all manner of risks, experiment, mass hire, and so on. But instead they just retreat tighter and tighter into the circle.

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The price does have to come down to make it more viable, yeah. I don't buy floppies at all because of it. Yes, evil fucker, killing the industry, blah blah blah, you ask me to pay 45 dollars for ten issues, or thirty dollars for the stuff on nicer paper without adverts.

Yep, fun stuff, isn't it?

>We should be focused on moving things forward
Is that code speak for closing their eyes to what their reads want and just press on with more garbage?

Not even, you're asked to choose between $45 with ads or 45% off online when the trade comes out

Seeing as how you clearly don't read comics and just parrot comicsgate talking points, yeah I can see how that wouldn't bother you at all.

I've been going back and revisiting a lot of late 80s/early 90s stuff. Probably the last time comics were "good" per se. Lots to criticize but not the overwhelming revulsion we see today. I really wish that someone, anyone would stand up and say "we don't care about twitter. The people criticizing us on twitter are not the ones buying our profuct, and we need to best service our customers."

Yes, this is true and completely the fault of modern "writers" who don't understand basic story structure.

I think it has to do with the writers wanting to be famous as opposed to their stories. They can be famous by using their work to make statements but those stories will invariably be of poor quality.

Wishing violence on someone for disagreeing with you is the sign of a very unhealthy mind, user.

>retire characters and continuously bring new blood
Haha yeah that would keep readers coming back

They also have been doubling down on making the male characters unlikeable for a while, even before making the females detestable. Not sure why they think that's a good idea.

Yeah usually new ones try too hard and forgets the core values that old ones had

I think comic should just die already.

/thread. finally someone with some sense.

Not likely

Yes, it would. People come for good stories. You got to wean them off the idea that a batman book is good because it's batman.

Yes, everybody likes beating a dead horse.

The medium will change but not die.

50s Batman is the MAN.

I have a cousin like this. He's incredibly intelligent yet laps up all the capeshit he's given like a thirsty dog. He thinks the MCU is the best thing ever.

>new titles featuring the same characters. He feels like their goal should be building new worlds rather than revisiting the old ones.

>This is why we have putting out fifty Batman/HarleyQuinn/Joker comics!!!!

Practice what you preach, you fat hypocrite.

>Practice what you preach, you fat hypocrite
He's writing a Metal Men series starting in october.
But I bet it will have terrible sales, and then he'll move back to 25 more Batbooks

>Practice what you preach, you fat hypocrite.
You mean like nu52 OMAC, which Yea Forums shat all over because not muh Kirby?

like Sideways?

>I'm not certain if the big retailers like B&N go through diamond but I suspect they don't
Bookstores would go through Diamond Books, which is set up like a more traditional book distribution system.

Bookstores don't get to choose which distributors they buy from, it's the publisher's choice.

Considering the bullshit he pulls, the terrible sales were hard earned.

why does everything new have to be about racemixing with a white, blue eyed blond girl?
seems like most writers either have an agenda or a cuck fetish

I come here every Tuesday and every weak the comics all play out exactly how I said.
Used to buy a ton of comics but these days Marvel and DC don't make comics for not woke people likes of me.

>Not sure why they think that's a good idea.
They hoped that this would make the new race and gender changed characters more likable and cooler in comparison.
They can't be bothered coming up with new good characters so they just settled for ruining the originals.

No, really, I meant as far as the early 2000s at least, presumably well before that agenda fully hit. Well, at least on Marvel.
For instance, being a fan of Beast is suffering. Iron Man fan? Reed Richards fan? Shit out of luck. And I'm not even getting into the 2010's.

This. As much people here bitch about SJWs Marvel was getting shitty long before they were a thing, and the constant events did far more damage than shit like Riri or Femthor.

I wouldn't go that far. 2000s Marvel was atrocious and bendis was already there, but they DID somehow get more readable at some points just around 2010, though you had to look for fringe stuff usually.

...And then, the editors were fired, the first wave of agenda replacements hit and bendis was set loose on the X-Men. Boy that went down the toilet quickly.

>america is the land of the free, all men are born equal... unless you're a disgusting nigger slave lmao

Study the history of USA and you'll discover that this country was built on moral relativism

>Reed Richards fan? Shit out of luck.
So true it hurts. Reed only wants to do good and everyone fucks with him for it.

The writers turned him to shit with Civil War, Illuminati etc, that's the point. He's the only one that hadn't really gotten a free out of shitter pass after that.

Now think about it, I'm actually a fan of both Namor and Black Panther. And for some reason I keep seeing people wanting Namor as a villain in a Black Panther movie because of some cheap crap from shit comics in recent years, rather than something from classic comics.

Well I'm speaking as someone who's breaking point was Civil War and OMD for buying Marvel, The Cosmic status quo after both Annihilations and War of Kings being the last thing I enjoyed before that went to shit, seeing Xavier turn into a monstrous asshole among other things. Yeah, some of 2000's was great, but my issues always stemmed from the damage the event fests and Quesda's bullshit caused.

I remember during the Civil War movie announcement, the first announcement was "Captain America versus the Serpent Society" to tepid reaction while I thought it was great and then they swapped it for Civil War and the crowd went wild while I thought "oh fuck". Civil War is the only Marvel comic normies have heard of so anything they recognise from from that pile of shit gets them excited.

I always hated Namor for trying to move in on Sue. I also kind of hated Sue for letting it get as far as it did.

>Reed only wants to do good
I know this site is autistic about the concept of tropes but Reed Richards Is Useless is a real problem when it comes to science heroes and the status quo.
It doesn't matter if Reed wants to do good. He CAN'T because shit isn't allowed to progress in universe, and deep down we all know that, and it makes reading him kinda pointless.

You're right. Reed should have cured every disease by now.

Why would good writers want to write capeshit?

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not but given this site I'm going to assume you are and ask why can't he? It's a fantasy book. None of it's real.

I'm agreeing with you, actually. There's no reason that Earth should not be a literal paradise thanks to Reed's intillect but it's still pretty shitty.

Not him, but maybe it's not about immediate change, like finding the cure for cancer, his crew discovers new worlds, figures out time and reality travel and stuff. Maybe he's just curious, but he explores new grounds.

Eventually, at least, Namor got a clue, I guess... probably after it hit him that she's well married and has kids.

I know, right? I see people gushing about Winter Soldier in the movies, but I cringe just to hear the name because of all the shit retcons Bucky and Cap were put through in that story he came from. And killed off Nomad for that crap, to boot.

Yeah, Marvel Cosmic was one of the good things among all the crap. Personally I enjoyed the Messiah Trilogy era for X-Men, at least they weren't pushing Chuck that badly as a douchebag, if I recall, like with Deadly Genesis. What's worse is up to pre-morrison he was being written as pretty sympathetic.

Didio has outstayed his welcome at DC. AT&T should replace him with Whedon.

>Classic Batman
>Outsmarts criminals with his amazing knowledge and skills
>Modern Batman
>Literally too stupid to live

What the fuck happened?

Attached: Batman kills himself.jpg (1041x1600, 549K)

Are you under the impression you added anything new to that thread of replies or even explained why removing LCSs changes anything you said?

Neither is denying reality which one is very much doing if they think Barry and Hal aren't legacies.

Whew, lad. You got BTFO earlier and you're still back for more. Can you provide anything externally that identifies them as legacies? Thus far you haven't done your due dilligence in proving your argument outside of your own statements. As such I'm not convinced and available evidence seems to vindicate me.

I really want Silver Age Batman to say to Modern Batman that he isn't anymore what he was supposed to be, he doesn't want to be a symbol of detective skills and Justice but the Modern Batman is just Plot Armor Man and he forgets what made him what he is.
Bonus point if Golden Age Batman show up too and kill the Joker as he did in his first appearence.

You should really read The Wrong Earth. Very similar premise to what you're suggesting.

>AT&T should replace him with Whedon.
THIS, but unironically.

Ded industry. Ded shops. American comics ded.

If this was anyone but Didio saying this, the fanatical leftists of Yea Forumsmblr would have labeled anyone making this claim an alt-right Nazi that doesn't care about comics and should just shut up because everything is fine. Well now we got confirmation from the horse itself. What poor excuse are you anons going to use now? What unwarranted ad hominem insult are you going resort to that has nothing to do with the topic?

I've been saying this exact same thing for years ever since I got my online sub for Marvel and DC recommended by friends and we all unanimously agreed that comics from the 90s/80s and earlier were far more interesting than most comics released today. None of this political garbage that somehow supporting the SA and border control somehow makes you part of the KKK.

>people like comics about heroes being heroes
>not captain america falcon beating up alt-right nazis trying to make beaners go back to mootxico while his tranny friend miss america uses her space latinx powers to give everyone tacos

damn that's fucked up yo

>expecting SJWs to self-reflect
After they finish ruining comics, they'll just say the industry crashed due to racist sexist incels.

>supporting the SA and border control somehow makes you part of the KKK
Except that putting non-whites in dog kennels is kind of up the Klan's alley, user. Just sayin'.

It's far better than they deserve.

Kys faggot

Truly stunning intellect here user.

You're still imagining CBR is a source?

And don't refer to your own posts as btfos that's just pathetic.

>non-whites deserve to be treated worse than dogs.
>I'm not a racist, why would you think that?

At least dogs are loyal.
You can't say the same about Mexicans.

Here's comics alliance referring to silver age characters as legacies.

comicsalliance.com/the-replacements-jay-garrick-legacy-the-flash/

>I'm not racist by the way.

Where did all of these Diamond shills come from?

Mexican isn't a race retard

>You're still imagining CBR is a source?
Never cited CBR. What's your source?

Yes. Is this a surprise to you?

>doesn't understand how Wikipedia citations work
I have you one as valid as CBR just above.

Fine, link it. I gave you two, you gave me nothing. You sound petulent and childish.