Who did it better?

Aang realized he couldn't just convert everybody and that sometimes you need to fight. He had problems with killing ppl and he tried to help ppl he thought would take it but he knew when he needed to fight or at least try to come up with solutions to defeat his foes (I know ppl think about spirit bending but also he had that one fight against Zhao where he didn't really fight him but just dodged shit and let him destroy his own ship - I think Bryke mentioned they wanted Aang to be a bit of a trickster).
Steven seems to only have talking as his back up plan. Makes him more boring and honestly a lot of his talking things out seem too easy or too quick so it's not too convincing.

Aang got a deus ex machine out of dealing with his problems. He never actually used alternative ways to change his opponents' minds unlike Steven. All he did was beat them up and lock them up like capeshit. And then he got a free pass at the end because reasons. All in all poor writing is at fault.

Aang recognises that the Fire Lord and his nation were bad. Steven does not, he calls the Diamonds "FAMILYY" after they've tried to shatter his actual family numerous times, treats their dictatorship job as a sunday part time job. Basically all the acts the Diamonds have committed are barely brought up in favor of Rebecca's coffee shop au antics. Bad writing

The Diamonds were never bad to begin with

I guess you missed the song in Familiar where he literally calls what they do "a reign of terror across space" and literally every time the Diamonds actions are shown to be bad in the series. They are his family and there's no way they'd win in a straight fight so he tried diplomacy. It didn't work, so they went back to rebelling and finally caught a break when Pink Steven showed up.

>Bomb their loyal troops and mutate them into monsters
>Take shards of thousands of dead gems and merge them into a huge rape clusterfuck
>Shatter gems for no reason
>Genocide multiple planets
Are you retarded?

He's literally never even suggested to them that they're wrong

>He didn't talk down White either
>I am a kid... What's your excuse?
White should be worse than Ozai, an absolute plight on her verse, but instead she gets insulted once and then immediately changes her entire personality and empire. How is that less of a copout than energybending? At least Ozai stayed Ozai. At least Aang had to fight like hell to survive and could only energybend at all by staying true to himself.

Yes he does, he does things like yell at Blue for being an abusive shithead that made Pink feel like doo doo garbage.

White Diamond became a fully different character after that burn, ultimately such a let down of a character

It wasn’t just the insult, it was being shown she’s not all powerful or all knowing, which was her main thing, she was unable to care that much because there was no one like her who knew as much or as strong as her.

Worldviews can be shattered instantly. The ending of Avatar is a copout because it tells Aang he has to murder a guy and then gives him a tool to not murder a guy so he doesn't have to deal with that consequence. Ozai is a fucking cartoon character compared to White and I mean that literally. There's no instance of him being misguided even though we're supposed to believe he was sort of nice to Zuko back in the day.

You really have a poor memory. The fact he's opposing them at all means he's against what they stand for. It doesn't need to be spelled out for the viewer time and time again.

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>Ozai is a fucking cartoon character compared to White and I mean that literally.
White Diamond literally has no substance whatsoever. She's built up to be the big bad of the show and has nothing, she's all fluff and the way her worldview is shattered is pathetic. Jasper was more sympathetic, more complex and much more of a proper villain than any of the Diamonds and she wasn't even the final boss

>Perfect individual is shown to obviously not be perfect
The logic is sound, the pacing is what hurts it. If Diamond Days had a few more episodes it would be fine.

>Worldviews can be shattered instantly
And you think White was handled well? One insult and then she becomes nice? After tens of thousands of years of slaughtering organics, stepping on any gem that so much as speaks out of term. So many shattered gems for nothing so many gems who spent their existence as wall decoration. We don't even really know if White changed but we're suppose to assume she did. It's SHIT. Ozai is a way more believable character, an amalgamation of hundred years of hatred and ego there was no magical phrase to change his worldview at a drop of a dime.

It's a lot easier to be a pacifist when all of your enemies can be poof'd into submission or talk no jutsu'd.

It’s also a lot easier when you’re given a last minute magical ability to depower them.

You're applying malicious intent to this when there clearly was none. It's like removing ants from your house in the Diamond's eyes and none of those organics were ever confirmed to be sentient.

Except for Jasper...and Aquamarine.

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His psychic abilities have been well established at that point

>Except for Jasper...and Aquamarine.
Jasper was poof'd into submission and Steven never had to fight Aquamarine.

>It's like removing ants from your house
Are you talking about the mass extermination of organic life, or the cruel subjugation of her entire race? Yellow led a project to stitch together thousands (millions?) of gems out of malice and she's small fry compared to White. This is regular behaviour for Diamonds, their people are disposable trash to them. And they ARE capable of showing empathy for "lower lifeforms." Outside the obvious example of Pink, we see other normal gems try to protect other organic life with the response being
>Murder them all or I'll shatter you and your entire crew.
Did they change at all in this regard? Seemingly we're suppose to assume they did. Don't even know if Yellow and Blue know their sister is dead.

Must have missed the episode about "auras."

Yellow was doing her job because White told her to do it. The entire point of the show is that the toxic system of Homeworld was fundamentally broken which led to all the tragic circumstances.

See pic related

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Jasper was corrupted and wasn't listening to Steven. That's the point, he couldn't get through to her. His talking did nothing against Aquamarine either.

I don't think you get it. Steven can use what would otherwise be lethal force against gems because it doesn't hurt them. He stabbed Bismuth in the gut and she poofs. If Aang did that to Ozai he would fucking die. It's very easy for Steven to have a no kill rule when he would have to go out of his way to kill.

Steven doesn't have a no kill rule, he just doesn't like hurting people. There's no rule that says he would never shatter.

He says he'd never shatter in the Bismuth episode

Yes because crying like a bitch all the time to solve your problems is very realistic

He was also much more naive at that point. Unlike Aang, Steven actually grows as a character.

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He only said, in regards to the Breaking Point, that shattering gems will make them just as bad as Homeworld.

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Not really, Steven regresses as a character.

>Aang at the start of the series
I don't want to be the Avatar
>Aang at the end of the series
I'm the Avatar!

>Steven at the start of the series
"If you're evil and you're on the rise
You can count on the four of us taking you down
'Cause we're good and evil never beats us
We'll win the fight and then go out for pizzas"

>Steven at the end of the series
"If you're staring with your giant eyes
You can see that there’s more of us than four of us!
And each one of our new friends completes us
We'll get together and go out for pizzas!
'Cause we believe in peace and love
We are here for fun!
If you're not then let's not fight 'cause
We've already won!"

Aang suffers, but he never really grows as a result like Sokka or Katara.

>Steven doesn't have a no kill rule
>There's no rule that says he would never shatter.
do you even watch the show

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See
Shattering in general =/= Shattering your enemies in cold blood. Learn the difference and watch the show yourself.

>Shattering in general =/= Shattering your enemies in cold blood.
What the fuck are you on about. There was never any distinction between what Bismuth wanted and "shattering in general." Remember how mad he was at Rose for shattering Pink? There was never a moment where Steven would even consider shattering someone, even against the Cluster monster that wanted to destroy the planet he was saying "we shouldn't hurt it!" and found an alternative solution.

SUshills no one in your "character driven" show gets any screentime or development besides Steven and Pearl, literally all the characters get shafted

So why are we arguing if he's a pacifist or not exactly? We're going in circles here. "He can't so it doesn't count" is a meaningless argument. Aang is stuck in a Nickelodeon show so you could say the same about his pacifism. The point is where the chips were down, Steven stuck to his guns whereas Aang had to rely on an 11th hour power-up for his way of life to be protected. Steven did on his own what Aang needed the writers for.

Literally the only characters who haven't had proper development (yet) are Lapis, Jasper and White Diamond. Stay mad "shill".

Got Trump elected didn't it?
>dis is why Trump won!!1

This is an odd question. I get that they are both Jesus analogizes on the heroes journey cycle with a reincarnated pacifist protagonist but... Its like one is modern and one is per-industrial fantasy. As anything it really comes down to a matter taste. Both ending escalated really fast after derping around for dozen of episodes and both kinda had a WE WIN ass pull. OP migh as well have asked which color of chocolate M&Ms you like best.

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Peridot, Jasper, Lapis, Amethyst and Garnet, none of them have any development

>The point is where the chips were down, Steven stuck to his guns whereas Aang had to rely on an 11th hour power-up for his way of life to be protected. Steven did on his own what Aang needed the writers for.
You could easily say the opposite happened. The world was yelling at Aang to do one thing, his friends his previous lives, but he kept to his guns whereas Steven had to rely on an 11th reveal that he's Pink. Literally what would have happened to the story if that never happened? Would Steven have "kept to his guns" then? If Steven was in his mother's shoes thousands of years ago the Earth would have been doomed. He won solely because of circumstances the writers wrote him into and not because of some big character moment.

>whereas Aang had to rely on an 11th hour power-up for his way of life to be protected.
Just like Steven.

>one of the most beloved shows on Yea Forums vs one of the most hated shows on Yea Forums
If you wanted a circlejerk you could've just said so. Cowardly faggot.

>Peridot
Lol
>Jasper
What the fuck did I just say
>Amethyst
Are you retarded?
>Garnet
Literally had an episode this past season.

>Dream powers
>Random

>Shattering in general =/= Shattering your enemies in cold blood. Learn the difference and watch the show yourself.
If he do not want to shatter gem in the heat of a battle, there is no reason he will want to do it in cold blood.

That's a massive oversimplification of Aang and you know it.

Not them, but would you mind elaborating? Haven’t seen ATLA in years

Aang's main growth as a character is his ability to use fire and how it's not dangerous if used correctly. He gets more mature but isn't any more nuanced than Steven is. Zuko is the king of character development in Avatar because his core beliefs are challenged and he's forced to change.

Is there an analogy for this is SU? Ang being hung up about using fire cuz he hurt Katara felt contrived.

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I dunno. Steven losing his healing powers because his dad tricked him, maybe.

The Guru episode pretty much just went over Aang's character, but the real meat to his character is his backstory abandoning his duty and it cost him everything which really built the framework to how his character operates. Conversely I think the meaty part to Steven's character isn't his magical shonen TNJ powers but about his identity.

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That's bang on actually. Also sort of in Steven Floats where his inability to stop floating is viewed as a problem. A silly one, but still.

Well said. I'm the user who's been oversimplifying Aang's character for the sake of banter, but there is a lot to like there. There's a reason why Avatar is still regarded as a great show.

Kek

I can't understand why people on Yea Forums constantly compare the two shows, as if they're anything like one another or even close in quality. ATLA is fantastic. SU has just about nothing going for it.

I love Avatar to death, but I agree with pretty much every complaint about energy bending. Just seemed like they had written themselves into a corner over the nature of the final confrontation.

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>The characters
>The music
>The lore
>The fusions

I left out easy nitpicks like story pacing etc., but come on now. SU has plenty going for it at least on an easy aesthetic or relatable level. Avatar is just much better written overall.

>Characters
The designs are overal repulsive, and I don't like the show's artstyle
>Music
Shit
>Lore
Vaguely interesting
>Fusions
Builds off the first point

Would've been better if they at least foreshadowed it earlier in the season.

>He stuck to his guns right until the end
yeah, but he can't forgive kevin for just being a dude after love.

Did what better? What about these shows is remotely similar aside from pacifistic protagonists?

Him and Kevin are on decent terms now.

Perspective user. I'm not saying your right or wrong but ones mans trash in another mans treasure.

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He just doesn’t like being around Kevin, it humanizes him

There isn't even a comparison. Energybending is probably the only real strike against ATLA, and even that could've been fixed had there just been either
>A) More physical/definitive ramifications for doing it, to make it a more analogous issue to Aang actually killing someone (maybe, because it seems to affect the soul, it makes them emotionless or something)
>B) Introduced earlier in the series with some actual back-up

The lion turtle has build-up but it's subtle IIRC. Like a picture in a book or something.

The Lion-Turtle, yes, but not energy bending itself. Bending was always shown as something spiritual but also natural (all of the animals and whatnot that 'taught' humans) - that there's some kind of inner energy allowing it (an energy that can be removed) really wasn't ever hinted at. At best you had the general idea that benders likely had 'something' extra that normal people didn't, but that's hardly a hint either.

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>that there's some kind of inner energy allowing it (an energy that can be removed) really wasn't ever hinted at
I think Ty Lee's fighting style kind of hints that, but yeah

Her's was straight up pressure points/chi blocking, which might've counted as a hint except that it also worked on nonbenders like Sokka

That's not buildup. That's just an easter egg that, at best, establishes lion turtles are a thing that exist if you're paying really close attention. Not what their significance is, nor is it something most people will catch the first time. Real buildup would be something like Sokka calling bullshit on Toph's story about learning bending from badgermoles, then Aang pointing out that bending was originally taught to humans by lionturtles (and Sokka thinks that idea is even more farfetched).

>chi-blocking
isn't that what Aang did, except instead of a temporary block his was permanent. it didn't only just strip Ozai of his bending it also made him super tired he couldn't even stand. if Sokka had his crown chakra blocked by Aang ala Ozai he probably would be feeling that too. nonbenders don't have bending but having their chi blocked still has a reaction on their body.

I can never get over how Steven can forgive and sympathize with war veterans that want him dead and genocidal intergalactic dictators but a douchey teen is the worst thing ever.

Watch the show

That one episode was intentionally written as Steven being OOC to ram home the moral that obsession is a stupid trait. He's much more rationally irritated by Kevin the next time he sees him.

Steven's too stupid to connect the dots that his aunts have consumed hundreds of planets specifically brimming with life

Aang.
People are going to say Steven because he didn't get energybending, but Steven has basically an empath aura and psychic abilities to manipulate others. He's part of the imperial command of an entire race and the diamonds are poorly written.

Aang got a copout because it's a kids show, but Steven was never written into a problem to need a copout. The entire universe ducks and dodges the fact of the matter regarding the diamonds: All their kin are immortal citizens who can be mended eventually. Nobody from the hundreds of planets the genocided can come to avenge their dead star systems. The one group that "matters" just happens to be largely ignorant of them and the sole representative is part them and a child with no real sense o justice.

Aang had to stop someone that was about to genocide an entire people, in a setting where humans are it, and he believed in his heart that he couldn't stop the cycle by killing Ozai; he would've made a martyr of him. He entered the fight without the Avatar state and still trying not to kill Ozai. He even defeats him nonfatally using the Avatar State. People bitching about the energybending act as if that's how he beat Ozai when it isn't: He'd already defeated Ozai and had a choice between risking his life to punish Ozai without killing him or executing him. Aang did pacifism better because he fought when he needed to, won the fight, and realized when the fight was over. Steven never had to fight out of necessity and definitely never had to deal with an internal conflict of justice.

He knows. It's not like he can do anything to reverse that.

How fucking dare you bring that steaming pile of garbage within 1000 pixels of the greatest cartoon ever made?

I know, who would put Aang next to Steven? So insulting to SU.

>He even defeats him nonfatally using the Avatar State. People bitching about the energybending act as if that's how he beat Ozai when it isn't: He'd already defeated Ozai and had a choice between risking his life to punish Ozai without killing him or executing him

Fucking this

Avatar isn't that bad dude

nice evidence buddy

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the fact you felt the need to make this joke shows you know the truth
don't let me see this comparisson ever again

You what mate? Steven can't emotionally manipulate people, that's Blue Diamond. Not to mention there's no cure for shattering. How do you get that wrong?

Because SU is so much better than ATLA?

Steven definitely has supernatural charm, and he never shatters. The closest thing someone could do to poofing a dangerous bender in the avatar world is -- oh look -- energybending.

Steven has pretty high charisma but it doesn't work if the person doesn't give a shit. Yellow and Blue didn't listen until he shot them with MIND BULLETS and then still didn't listen properly until he called them out on their bullshit. Jasper straight up tried to maul him and went out screaming in pain.

nah, he likes kevin now too