Manga Sales Are Booming In The U.S., While Western Comic Book Sales Decline

>MAIN CAPESHIT MOVIE ENDS
>INTEREST DIES OUT
honestly,who the fuck would bother reading the comics after the years long marvel universe has come to an end? If you started, then you'd be reading origin stories which are already in movie form.

Yeah, but aren't the comic TPBs really big? Where are the numbers on those?

comics nowadays unironically are sexist towards men.
you can´t go 2 pages without looking at a drawing of a half naked super buff dude.
honestly that wouldn´t even bother me if it was equally done but all the female characters meanwhile keep getting more and more censored each week.
revealing costumes, big breasts or curvy bodies all have been removed eventhrough many female characters used to be drawn that way for over 20 years.
I think most insulting they don´t even bother giving a explanation why a female character who used to have big breast now suddenly is flat like a board or why she just randomly decided to get a new costume.
Whats even more sexist is the huge double standard with how male and female character are written.
Male characters no longer get to act heroic or masculine. Instead they constantly cry about "toxic masculinity" and get either their asses kicked or saved by women.
characters like batman or spider-man have been turned into comedic side kicks in their own story so that female and minority characters can be the true hero of the comic.
I can´t remember the last time a white male hero got to act typical heroic and save a women or defeat a bad guy without crying.
The women on the other hand now not only all look the same (man faced, small breast, ugly costumes that cover them up head to toe, stick bodies) but also all have the same personality.
Think of 5 random female character form the 70s.
They all have been turned into feminist mouth pieces.
They all have to do science (because girls can code biggot) or be some political activist who can´t go 5 minutes without screaming about the patriarchy, sexism toxic masculinity, male gaze or some other bullshit liberal term.
Gone are the loving and supporting female characters of the past.
The modern female character hates men and only supports lesbian relationships.
Also men are always portrayed as weaker or inferior to women regardless of the situation when they fight or debate

10 bucks for 200 pages of story 15-20 for maybe 150 pages. It’s not that hard to figure they’ve just priced themselves out of the market

As someone who started reading comic 4-5 years ago, it took me a while to figure it out where I should start. With manga you just pick volume 1 and continue forward. Maybe this is why anime adaptation can help boost manga or novel sale.

This. SJWs will save us.

comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-274-looking-at-bookscan-for-2018/

Manga made 87m in 2018, which is a little over a quarter of all bookstore sales. I repeat, fuck off.

>paying 10 bucks for manga
6 eurobucks per tank is the correct price.

But why should I believe you instead of OP?

If you don’t count children’s books like Dog Man as comics Manga makes way more the comics

Physical manga sucks. It's too damn tiny

I do think manga shits all over american comics but I have no interest in buying and reading something the size of a pocket bible

Many comic titles should just go digital, especially if they want to have multiple titles of various unknown or relative unpopular characters in a franchise/universe that interconnects, preferably "free" if possible via websites that are sponsored by online donors or online advertisements.

I honestly don't know many kids or teens that go to comic book stores to read physical comics anymore, but I know many who read webcomics. Going digital just seems to be the next big transition trend that comic publishers should be considering, like video streaming for films/TV shows, due to accessibility, price, and convenience.

It used to be 7 in America when I first started buying, but ten bucks still puts them at half the price of a standard trade of cape comics. Though the price raise has made me start buying in bulk now, and those three in one books are only 20 so they’re pretty much omnibuses for a third of the price

If it has pictures in its comics, manga eternally BTFO

Because OP's article is wrong and he doesn't know enough about comics to recognize it.

Bookscan covers all bookstore sales and that is what my link reports
OP's link takes only manga sales out of that report and compares them to sales figures from diamond, which handles sales to comic shops, a more niche sales channel.

This is why I love my copies of Nausicaä because those hardcovers are even bigger than most TPBs so the artwork gets to shine on proper page size.
The three-in-one books are a pretty good deal, not gonna lie.

you can buy comics digitally for years now and digital sales haven´t changed for the last 4 years.
the main reason for decline in sales is 100% due to low quality of writing and art

Plus the stories are too decompressed, I can pirate them but I hate buying a volume and getting only one fifth of a story
Buying manga always feels like a waste of money to me with the cheap paper and small size. Vizbigs are the only ones I've found that are worth owning. I just pirate

Comic Book Writers don't know how to tell self contained stories anymore. They write their stories like movie or television scripts with a decompressed narratives.

>he's wrong and I'm right because reasons

Decompressed is the word of the day!

Don't give outrage bucks to this cuck. At least post the archive link, dumbass.

oneangrygamer.net/2019/07/manga-sales-are-booming-in-the-u-s-while-western-comic-book-sales-decline/88299/

Fuck off psycho.

The thing is, a lot of these comic book writers aren't really good at telling decompressed stories.

Porn. A lot of weird porn.

God I wish I could buy English translated physical copies of all my favorite porn.

>oneangryincel

Good shit, hopefully western companies learn from this

Comicsgate is the future. Selling direct to the customers! Getting rid of the middleman reduces costs, increases profitability, and allows greater interaction with the customers!

Are you stupid or are you purposefully ignoring the arguments he's making?

Manga is completely agenda-free. I don't even buy western comics anymore. Haven't for years.

Yes. Capeshitters be mad.

This isn't an argument against the story, and incel doesn't mean anything.

HA
I don't buy either of them

My only Big Two is older material. About $60 a month.

Maybe this?

Attached: 1562684518657.jpg (3890x1225, 1.6M)

This, I literally can not stand super hero comics and i hate there art style, literally comics for kids look more interesting than capeshit comics

Incel means "involuntarily celibate".

Most comics are too hard to read, a tangled fucking mess of continuity. Even if you know where to begin, the store you're at might not have it. Meanwhile with manga, you can basically always pick up volume 1 and just start reading. Then there's the price issue, manga's just way the fuck cheaper. Sure, you're giving up color, but evidently most people don't care.

Manga has an agenda: galvanize the youth of Japan to take over the country.

>Manga is completely agenda-free.
Not really but they are not in your face.

There's actual variety in manga if just because there is so fucking much of it.
No it doesn't, not anymore. It has become a meaningless buzzword for "person i don't like/disagree with"

No it doesn't. It's a nonsense word. It has no meaning.

>Manga is completely agenda-free.
Not if Abe has anything to say about it.

Which is good. Beats the shit out of our propaganda, which tells the youth to suck dicks and smoke weed till you die.

No, not really. The lack of cultural context is the reason why you don't see it.

This on top of an incredibly hostile public presence where the people trying to make a living selling a product only want said product sold to the "right" people and anyone that raises complaints isn't part of those people.

Abe Types tend to want to remilitarize Japan and bring back the best of the Late Showa Period when Japan was an economic and war power house.

The only western comics that arrive on my shithole are either capeshit and licensed shit I don’t care about. While there’s a a great variety in manga. I’m currently buying HxH, Monster and Beastars.

Are you an idiot or just this dumb?

Nah all he wants is "Have Children!!!"

2/3 series that I also own, good show old bean.

No they really don't compared to western comics meant for the same demographic. If they do it's straightforward wholesome themes like friendship instead of shoving faggotry down your throat. How is DBZ or One Piece overtly political?

Good taste user.

What’s the best/cheapest place to purchase manga?

ironic bc the manga industry is dying in Japan

Let me guess, Monster and Beastars?

I heard that Frieza in DBZ was based off Japanese Real Estate Speculators, and his army is ran like the Yakuza.

Pre-Freiza Dragonball was pretty much Dynasty Era China.

>What do you think? What's the reason for this phenomenon?
There are several reasons:
1) Exposure:
>It's a lot easier to read the manga online without a subscription fee than western comics. A lot of that is do to piracy that you don't have to download.
>manga has actual shot-for-shot adaptations. Their is not a single comic book that can claim that.
2) Serialization:
>Manga tends to tell epic stories instead of self-contained stories, which audiences have been demanding for years in other media.
3) Cultural difference:
>Growing up, whatever is seen in your culture is normal, and as a pre-teen and a teenager (the main demographic for comics and manga) whatever is normal is boring. Anime and manga come from a different culture with different values, and aren't limited to the same social taboos as we have here, making them seem edgier to the target demographics.
4) Diversity in genres
>In America, most adaptations of comics are superhero comics. If you want access to comics that aren't in newspapers or about superheroes, than reasonably priced options are limited.
5) More publishers
>In America, if you want to read a comic, it'll either be made by Marvel, DC, Image, Darkhorse, Archie, or IDW (and IDW probably won't last another 5 years.) If it's any other publisher, exposure will be hard to get.
6) Creator Control
>How many of the characters in non-newspaper American Comics have been written or drawn from beginning to end by the same writers? How many Japanese manga can make that claim?
7) Cultural Acceptance
>After WW2, American comics were limited by the strict rules of the comic code authority. Japan never had that limitation, so manga started tackling more adult topics at a faster rate. As a result, they were able to experiment when it was cheaper to do so, and created niche audiences. Also, Japan has stories told with pictures a lot more frequently in pre-WW2 eras than Western Cultures did, so reading comics back to back wasn't as taboo.

ist if you're American

instocktrades*

And they’re out of the volumes I want, damn

they are doing horrible. marvel dumped warehouses full of tpbs at discount stores

>If they do it's straightforward wholesome themes like friendship instead of shoving faggotry down your throat.
Well all the "friendship" jizz you see in the manga didn't reflect the real life in the Japan society. They are probably the must shut in individuals in the planet. All the idea of brothership and belong is a recurrent theme in the mangas because they want to force it in the minds of the childrens.

No I've never touched Beastars.

Yes the western comic industry is mostly trades and digital sales now

That was marvel and not even all their titles just their shitty ones like america and squirrel girl. TPB sales have only increased

My impression is that the Japanese tend to do things together, and even their geeks (i.e. otaku) collaborate more than their American counterparts.

Sounds like a good idea then

They do. That guy gets all his Japan from /pol/-/r9k/ memes. Japan is a place where arcades still thrive, their geeks are a lot more outgoing and sociable than here.

So was this posted on all boards or just Yea Forums and Yea Forums?

>their geeks are a lot more outgoing and sociable than here.
Ahahahahaha. Sure buddy, sure.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comiket

>Everyone in japan is a hiki /r9k/ told me so
Are their manga stores closing left and right and having to subsist on nendo sales? Are their conventions 95% normies that watch super hero movies?

this
and
this

>evidently most people don't care
Lol, look at this poorfag coping.

Firstly, nobody cares about American comics. Except for American oldfags and Twatter addicts/progressives speaking in English. No other country reads it.

Secondly, manga has been the elephant in the room for comic pros/journos/LCS owners since a few years ago
I think most of them hate manga, like most Yea Forums tards, and were actually treating it like an underdog for a long time and doing nothing to it.
I mean, now nobody can have any marketing plan to fight/deal with it. They simply have no knowledge of manga like oldfags in their 60s, and cant make any move.

Thirdly, comics are actually fucking boring uninspired garbage. The contents are fucking old. It doesnt have any MODERN feelings, except for SJW political agendas or cringy conservashit bullshit, while manga depicts a lot of modern life styles. Teenagers really love to adopt a cool life style. Like music fans ape their favorite musicians. Manga shows you how to live now, be cool, and address your issues, without, of course, being part of the fucking mobs on SNS, On top of that Japanese culture delivers lots of modern cool shit. While American comics cant express any of these at all.

Yeah, and given the age group aimed at for shounen jump and the kids comics are the same, it’s a very bad comparison

For a good long time, comic pros, journos, and LCS owners can't grapple with the fact that people want to read something other than DC and Marvel. Comic Book Artists and Writers have a pretty big ego and the community is insular as fuck.

American Artists literally can't comprehend the thought of a foreign artists that's better than them.

Manga is simply a more healthy industry.
>Average quality is better due to Japs just having a higher average drawing ability
>Manga is usually done by 1-2 people, giving them much more creative control compared to comics
>Manga has actual diversity, not SJW "diversity" but an actual wide range of genres and story lines made by people usually passionate for the stuff (How many comics are there about cooking? Both realistically and stylized? Exactly.)
>Manga doesn't put a heavy focus on the same couple dozen characters like comics does (That isn't to say they don't have their old legacy series/characters like Jojo/DB/etc but there's plenty more that exists outside of them)

Attached: 1477505464888.jpg (1364x1920, 715K)

>middle and highschoolers are the same as 6 year olds

I hope the west moves on from capeshit soon and starts publishing different types of comics because manga fucking sucks too.

Dude, cap underpants and dog man is 10~, same as SJ

Manga has no creative control. Jump Stories are runned by polls and execs telling artists how to write their own stories. The perfect example of this are Dragonball, Bleach, YuYuHakusho

>But why should I believe you instead of OP?

Because OP is a fag. That's a known fact.

I think one of the reasons is manga actually EMBRACES longform narrative continuity and large volume numbers. A lot of people actually WANT to get sucked into a long-running story with lore and continuity.

DC actively shuns their continuity and doesn't let their trade paperback volume numbers run into double digits. Marvel embraces their continuity a little more but relaunches all of their titles every six months, resulting in a dozen #1s of every series, which is more complicated for the average person to follow than simply starting at volume 1 and continuing.

Stop embarrassing yourself by talking about things you have no clue about.
The fact you can only name drop literal shounenshit that aired on toonami is fucking pathetic, kill yourself. Manga is far more than just shounen shit, and obviously it has editors and exces meddling but it is FAR LESS than what DC/Marvel does.

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>comparing bookscan to diamond
I regret clicking the link. At least I have adblock

I remember when Dragon Ball used to be sold in floppy form and released in LCS. Then they released it exclusively on collected formats and sold in book shops. Manga publishers and companies likely saw the writing on the wall and saw the future was in book stores. Not to mention everyone really underestimates western comic sales for children and others sold through book stores here.

That being said kinda interesting that the link you have also said there was a larger market for books with comic IPs. Makes sense. I wouldn't be opposed to more cape books.

manga's end. they rarely have any of that retcon reboot bullshit. shame i can't get into any of them.

>That was marvel and not even all their titles just their shitty ones

So, all of their titles.

Seinien is just as trash and nobody wants to read that garbage because manga artists don't know how to create the high functioning drama needed for those stories.

The Truth is that Artists need Execs and Editors to keep their egos in check.

Manga sells better in Japan than comics sell in the US.
And as we can see from OP, manga is doing much better in the US than comics do in Japan.
Stay mad, hoe.

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so you admit to reading cute girl anime?

Shounen and seinen are nominal target demographics that comprise a massive amount of artists and genres, and just because you don't want to read something doesn't mean others don't.

>the high functioning drama needed for those stories
K-On needs high functioning drama?

>And as we can see from OP
OP is wrong though

www.comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-274-looking-at-bookscan-for-2018 has the right numbers, and manga is around 25% ish of total

How does that prove what I said wrong?

>oneangryincel

No social justice garbage in manga. The people who make manga and anime aren't devoted to subverting and destroying Western civilization, like the people who make "Western" comics and cartoons are.

See

personally am a sucker for folks with powers of some kind. doesn't need to be tied to capeshit.

No, YOU fuck off. You're what's wrong with society.

Manga is not doing better than comics in the US using the OP solely as proof

Is this true? I thought digital sales were largely unknown?

>Manga is not doing better than comics in the US
Try actually reading my post.

I can expect better art in 90% of manga. A lot of comic books I see nowadays makes me wonder make me wonder how the person who approved it and the person who drew it think it would be appealing to anyone's eyes.

I'm sorry, if I'm going to read through something that relies on pictures, than those pictures better be fucking pretty and look good when they are supposed to show movement.

I mean, a cursory glance at the article with some knowledge of what the fuck he’s actually comparing should tell you that it’s bullshit. Diamond and Bookscan are two very different data sets

Yes, the data we have isn’t close to complete

>www.oneangrygamer.net

Why would I follow this link?

Oops, I need sleep. Actually do you have data for manga sales in Japan? I’m curious

Call me when Japan makes good black characters.

Figures. How well capes are doing is largely gonna be dependent on digital sales and subscriptions, I imagine.

soul eater has a pretty good black character, shame he was quite minor

>Decades of continuity/things being different from the movies scare off new readers.
>Constantly rotating creative teams, cancellations and retcons make old readers quit.
This is legitimately all there is to it. Anyone can pick up a manga and now it has a clear beginning and eventual ending, no need to look up guides of decades old stories online. Readers like accessibility and continuity.

myanimelist.net/anime/37435/Carole___Tuesday

you get much more bang for your buck with manga, even if it is a slower release schedule.

were you kicked in the head by a mule?

From what I heard, distribution for US comics is a big problem there, too, and sold more in specialty places. Fundamental differences and lack of translations probably don't help either.

Subscriptions isn’t even counted in digital sales, which is quite weird

That's a feature, not a bug.

animenewsnetwork.com/news/2019-05-29/top-selling-manga-in-japan-by-series-2019/.147237
The data is from oricon.

comichron shows the total revenue of all digital sales each year.
they don´t show how much each comic or manga sold but the total revenue hasn´t changed much over the last few years.
it remains at less then 10% of all sales

That's actually a good thing. That trend ought to continue until it forces western comics to improve their game and stop fucking around. You can have a long running successful comic story. Just do it fucking well.

The overall quality of story telling in Manga is more satisfying than in comics from the big two. The sin of DC/Marvel is the extraordinary overuse of the same characters, long long story lines that no matter how they end, will be rebooted in an alternative universe or later twisted by some writer-asspull just to continue the story in one of the diminishingly few directions left untrod. Not to mention the changing of authors along the way and execute meddling is far FAR more frequent in Western Comics than in Manga.

Manga sometimes gets long long stories that go on forever but rarely does the author change, so the vision (bad or good) stays more consistent. There is continuity and no easy "reboots".

Not to mention modern Marvel/DC has way too much politics and culture war, to the expense of story and character. Manga does not suffer from this. You want a gay character? Sure, here's an actual good story about why they are gay, not because of some cultural diversity insert quota.

Its because we receive whole volumes in the U.S. and it doesn't come out over the course of months in terms of a magazine

decompress your brain cavity reddit

You can fuck in Manga, but not in comics from the big two....

Counter point, manga produces weebs, who are a far blacker stain on the west than w*men could be even if they tried.

but what about manga that's about politics?

Weebs are practically extinct.

While not EVERYWHERE, this is mostly true

Yeah they have some quite noticeable gaps in data collection though, noteably they don’t count digital subscriptions for some reason

i smell bullshit

Isn't printed manga notorious for being volumes behind outside of Japan and that's why most read manga online for free?

because a subscription isn´t a classic sale

myanimelist.net/news/56846566
this is example of weekly sales

It’s still revenue which isn’t counted, and they even admitted it’s getting more popular, which is extra weird how it isn’t included

This is true, this is from a shonen manga about a bunch of dudes in a generic fantasy land that go around writing reviews on what it's like fucking the various fantasy races and its published in a shonen magazine

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Sorry but i gotta back the one user up. I read a LOT of manga. First mangaka tend to have several assistants, especially the big weekly series. Oda, the One Piece guy has probably 10 assistants. Second, alot of the author self comics, usually sprinkled throughout the book or at the end are them bitching in a roundabout way about their publisher "suggesting" certain changes (read do what we want or you're canned). So really both side west and east got the publisher up their butt

Is it? Not even sure if subscribers ever got counted. Although, it does make it difficult to gauge which books are popular from the subscriber model.

How accurate are they, though? I thought those digital sales numbers ere still missing a lot of info.

>Isn't printed manga notorious for being volumes behind outside of Japan
Not in my country tho. Most of them are 1 or 2 volume behind.

>Literally cherrypicking and omitting data
they did that to actually make capeshit look like a competition, if you check those other genre, it's just a sad one sided rape for manga.

I heard about the Overlord mangaka made at piracy while his manga is multiple volumes behind outside of Japan.

No, just facts.

any actual argument or are you there to bark words you don't understand until the thread dies and you pretend you won?

Skip Beat! still running? What the absolute fuck

>they did that to actually make capeshit look like a competition, if you check those other genre, it's just a sad one sided rape for manga
Uh, this isn’t even about genre. The comparison is really bad as it uses different channels. For bookscan, which is what the manga sales are from, comics take up a much larger %. Not sure why you would even bring up genre

if they were huge success warner bros or disney would talk about it in their financial reports
as far as I know disney most recently said that comic sales for both star wars and cap titles are down in general as well

I've spent 20 years reading manga, speak Japanese and have lived there and in the USA. There are things westerners often don't get with Japanese culture for a long time (if ever), but this does not make an agenda. There are tropes, like the Japanese praying when they don't actually believe in God. More like sending hopeful prayers into the cosmos. Or their (personally annoying) trope of "unforgiveable" which doesn't make sense to the Judeo-Christian founded western world. But these are just small things that, shockingly, don't actually impact the quality of their story telling. And no, having a somewhat different culture doesn't make for an agenda.

Unless you mean a purely business agenda, that's pretty hard to claim. (Shounen Jump for example does tweak things to help exposure for some of their series, for example.)

So give some evidence on this one, or your probably just projecting or baiting.

what makes you think that most of those subscriptions are not for manga as well?

Nigger do you even know what kind of subscription we are talking about? Also, manga isn’t even counted ya dum dum

comichron lists manga and childrenbook sales as "comics"
there also have been a few new apps which allow for online manga subscriptions

Can you explain the prevelance of "it can't be helped"

Tell em, Steve Dave!

>comichron lists manga and childrenbook sales as "comics"
Childrenbook is counted. Manga isn’t iirc, unless it’s dark horse or something

He’s not a mangaka he’s a novel writer his novels are 3 books behind and his manga are only 1-2 volumes behind for release in America yet in comparison to his books the manga is literally 8 books behind.
His books are what’s being pirated.

no you lazy nigger

A lot of anons on here only focus on the stuff they don't like and use that as a reason to write off a whole medium. But they make it sound like they're making a statement when they're just being ignorant. Too many people will find one thing, one page that rubs them the wrong way and suddenly everything has an agenda. Like the shitposters that post that one page of Immortal Hulk without going into the context. And heaven help us if a character has an opinion that differs from the reader.

On the flipside there are people that don't like various manga for many different things. Quite a bit will complain about the lewd nature, about NTR rearing its ugly head, about updates and releases being too sparse, about the story going nowhere, about a lot of things. People have their reasons for not following comics or manga but it's more obvious that someone is overreacting when they say "I don't like ANY of these comics" as opposed to a more logical conclusion such as "I don't like this title because of this reason."

Attached: 1366281687639.gif (320x240, 1.83M)

How many Western comics even run 15+ collected volumes with the same creative team, let alone 50+? Savage Dragon and what else?

Attached: 1542913577972.jpg (718x1113, 311K)

Mangashitters, everyone. Look how mature they are.

Well maybe he should get the ones pirating his stuff to handle his official translations since they're doing a better job than whatever company is currently handling it.

They very well could be or it could even be both manga and comics. In either case, the point still stands that there is a lot of data we don't have about digital sales, not just subscriptions but also things like Kindle sales, Marvel Unlimited, etc. So in any case, digital sales not changing for the last 4 years is hard thing to state definitively.

chomichron regarded mangas like graphic novels.
they are included in sales through bookstores, comic stores and online

>Looks like there’s no other way around this I’ll lend a hand

I don't know about sales figures and shit, but I don't really see comics being read anywhere. It's all manga.

Literally not true.

Aside from varying by publisher (and there are a lot) often the original creator does maintain control and ownership. I can't recall the last time there was a creator who lost his IP because his company took it from him. This can be both good and bad, because sometimes the artist doesn't know jack about what he's gonna writer. Bleach is a prime example of reasonable start, some creative input improved it but ultimately didn't go anywhere and dropped in popularity.

There are RARE cases where things fall through the cracks due to outside sources. The Trigun series had to be renamed Trigun Maximum because the original publisher went out of business and sold off the trademark for the title, which means the manga artist needed a new one. But that's just a legal dance, not intention loss of creative ownership.

Manga
>Start at number 1 and just go from there
> More autor driven
> alot more story for each number because the BW format that allow more story for each tome
>story will try to attempt an start and an end (because the autor wanted or because flopping pushed it to a suddent termination)

Comics
>Mainstream stories dont tell you were to start because the same characters get a million different stories that are some times related and some times isnt
>bearly any pages for each tome
> The story of most cape characters will never be over because they have to keep selling the same thing.

There is probably more reasons but feel lazy to continue.

Actually they don’t count comic store ones, unless they are through diamond as well

>manga
>good reasons
>comic
>bad reasons
Not only are you lazy but you're manipulative.

You’re stating what everyone who pirated it said. Theyve already translated the books, while official releases are 3 books behind. The translators are constantly begging readers to support the writer. Official links to merchandise and books are always included but English speaker who can’t read jap can’t navigate the site.

And what makes you think they are? Point is, it’s a large gap that isn’t counted

You probably right, i don't know.
What would be "good reasons" for comic.

There's no anime of Yotsuba, a very popular series, because the author said no anime. Authors will also participate in voice actor auditions and can veto scripts and design decisions.

Fuck that book, authors slow and has eroded my good will with pointless plots and drama

>unless they are through diamond as well
That’s what I mean. Mangas sold through Viz and Darkhorse get each month.
They also show of the sales through book stores each year where the top 200 are dominated by mangas and children’s books which for some reason are regarded as „comics“

More like OP is mad.

Why shouldn’t children’s book be counted when shonen is? It’s all aimed at the 8-12 demographic after all

Only... that's not true.

I'd take weebs over the basedboy betas and male-feminists and worse that is being groomed by modern comics.

You can still be a real man in manga. In western comics though, that's "problematic."

>obtain tons of ip
>ruin virtually all of it overnight with sjw bs
>wtf sales are down???
that's not necessarily a useful measurement of the health of the industry

Shounen goes up to high school.

>basedboy betas and male-feminists
There are a lot of weebs like that though.

I think the publisher might be part of the problem since his novel not really behind in my country. Same as manga cause they are bond by contract to when to publish it.

And I have seen high schoolers read dog man too. Doesn’t mean it’s primarily aimed at them

Isnt one of the issues of manga vs comics is that most of the starting points for comics aka the real issue #1s are like really expensive or lost?

You get way more bang for your buck buying Manga than you do buying comics, plus it's more accessible and there's a massively wider field of genres, so this shouldn't surprise anyone.

>i'm an authority on maturity
but user you're so vain and self-important that you won't even read books that aren't about niggers...

it has colors?...diveristy...well racial...

i can't think of anything good.

I saw the inside of the pages of a Dogman book. It looks like a comic to me. I actually wonder if Mo Willems' books count, too.

There's a whole bunch of starting points with comics, which also becomes a problem. Marvel has relaunched their books like four times in the last 8 years. DC has relaunched their books like two times in the same period.

That's confusing for people.

then you've got reality warping mega vents between or causing relaunches that just makes things even more confusing.

Japanese politics is actually quite boring. They've had the same party in major control for several decades. They don't have to worry about military involvement because the US takes care of that. They are wealthy and have a very stable culture/country because they teach their people to actually value tradition and the inherited culture they are receiving.

Even with that, political manga is a small fraction of all manga published (perhaps even a very tiny fraction) and usually fictious. I'd be surprised if you could find three stories that were all subtly saying the same thing with an agenda, published in the last 10 years.

Given the tiny numbers, it's not something you can call an industry or cultural wide agenda. So, not really.

Shounen goes from elementary to high school. I don't know why the West is obsessed with pigeonholing it as just for children.

To all you experienced manga readers: give me a list of absolutely 10/10 manga. I've read Vagabond, Berserk, Vinland Saga, Nausicaa, Phoenix and many works of Tezuka, the works of Urasawa, YKK, Lone Wolf and Cub, Akira, a lot of gekiga, shounen, horror/guro and practically any other very popular series. I want something very Japanese and very adult if possible, written for an experienced manga reader.

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>What's the reason for this phenomenon

BEEG
TIDDIES
AND WAIFUS

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>Being so retarded that you fall for a shit/baitpost
Capeshitters everyone.

Again culture and trope, not an agenda.

That's like saying the phrase "break a leg" or "god help us" is agenda.

>Immortal Hulk isn’t sjw shit
Opinion discarded
Also the problem isn’t that comics these days don’t express opinions that readers don’t share. The problem is that comics these days only represent the same leftwing/feminist/sjw opinion as fact over and over again.
It‘s always about how all men are privileged, sexist or idiots.
In the entire catalogue of dc and marvel you will not find a single comic which expresses critical opinions on feminism for example.
You will never hear a comic character talk about he didn’t get to go to collage because there are only scholar ships for women and minorities but none for white men. You will never hear peter Parker not getting a job at a university because of its diversity quota policy which forces universities to pick less qualified female and black candidates over more qualified white men. You will never see a male hero get is life ruined because of a false rape accusation.
There a tons of issues that men have to face these days yet comic writers still act like this are the 30s where women aren’t even allowed to vote and get slapped on their ass when ever they go to a store.

The first problem is that you're lumping everything into Marvel and DC. We just had The Walking Dead finish and that has consistently sold well up until its end and many anons seem to agree it had a good ending. The idea of one story being written by just one writer is something you can find in other publishers like Image.

Manga benefits from having just one writer in that there's consistency, for better or worse. With comics it's a bit more of a gamble when looking at Marvel and DC. You can have an amazing run and then it's followed by a bad one under a different writer. But instead of a title, why not follow that writer? Usually writers continue their stories in some way in other titles. And sometimes a great run is followed by a better one or at least a decent one. JLA in the 90s had one of the most solid runs under different writers with Morrison, Kelly, and Busiek. There's more variance because of this but things rarely get stale for titles, even when status quo comes knocking. Hulk had been stale for a while and yet he's seen some massive changes under different writers. Not only do you have the current horror theme but there was Planet Hulk, Dr. Green, Hulk working with SHIELD, etc. None of those would happen if it was the same writer on the title for decades.

Also, manga is kind of trash if you ask me. I can see the appeal but I don't see it overall being better than comics. Manga has its own set of problems and there are definite hacks in the industry. We're in the middle of an isekai flood and literally every manga in that genre is "this person was taken from our world to a fantasy world with a cheat skill."

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Just like in comics where the fuck do they come from?

I don’t think children’s books nor mangas should be counted as comics
It’s really dishonest

Get woke go broke

You only read one page of Immortal Hulk and we all know what that page was.

More or less what this user said To add a bit more context, there might be a slightly greater culture reference to Japan (and in general Asia's) history with buddism and fate. So sometimes it's a bit like conceding "well that just HAD to happen, didn't it?" But again, it depends somewhat on the emotion behind it. Sometimes it's begruding, other times it's more willing, like the other user translated.

Most of the popular ones get reprinted. Starting from the very beginning actually isn't too bad. What's hard is when you reach the point where there are events, multiple crossovers, different issues being referenced and canonized, etc. Then there's multiple starting points and relaunches. What's funny is that the attempts to make it easier for new readers would be infinitely more helpful if the average layperson could easily find this info, but they really don't.

Manga you can take it out no problem, there’s enough data to make a reasonable estimate. Children’s books are still fucking comics, just aimed at a different demographic. If you want big 2 only then look at big 2 only you dumb fuck

>Rodriguez
OF FUCKING COURSE
Fuck that spic

the comic said that white male privilege is a fact
and so far has not apologized for it

comics are just to sell webcomic tier quality at $20 for 20 pages

Twitter?

Not from Manga, bro. Feminism in Japan isn't like in the west. Actually it's barely a thing.

>aka the real issue #1s are like really expensive or lost?

Amazing Fantasy 15 was sold for thousands of dollars during one of the Spider-Man anniversaries. You have to pirate it to read it. The same as Superman

Image the riots if white men started to judge black women simply on their skin color and gender

>muh continuity is what's stopping new readers from starting western comics
You have to be a literal braindead retard to think you need to start at Action Comics 1 to get """"""the full story""""" up to action comics 1012.

You can pick up a book at any number and read it and you'll be good. You don't need to read 650 issues to start reading the fantastic four. It's a ridiculous notion.

Want a compendium of the entire comic series run?

$200 for a coffee table book

Because it's true. Mayo people get away with too much shit.

you are just the typical male feminist who refuses to accept that social justice these days is just about normalizing racism, sexism and discrimination against white men

The name of the website was already an indication but
>oneangrygamer.net/2019/07/manga-sales-are-booming-in-the-u-s-while-western-comic-book-sales-decline/88299/ What do you think? What's the reason for this phenomenon?
Am I supposed to take this seriously?

Truth

No, even the thread is full of bait.

Even if that's true, people don't know that and they're still going to be confused and uncertain.

Did you read new lone wolf and cub?

Its almost like a story having a beginning, a middle, and an end is naturally appealing! Holy shit wow

>In the entire catalogue of dc and marvel you will not find a single comic which expresses critical opinions on feminism for example.

and doing that has already been a taboo. its just a form of a cult or a sect. although the real problem with this shit is, for example, writers cant express a scene where a man is beating the shit out of a woman without virtue signalling. manga can. men can lynch a woman to death there, without being criticised on twatter.

american comics cant even produce simple violent and sex stuff without being political anymore.

like women who can easily ruin mens lives with false accusation and never get punished for it?
also I sure love my white male privilege of not being able to get any scholarships or jobs based on my skin color and gender alone.
white men have been the minority at collage for over 30 decades now yet they still don´t get any support what so ever. meanwhile women have been the majority and still get billions of government funded scholarships and female exclusive support groups.
women are 5 times more likely to get a tech job then men yet they still cry about "sexism" and "white male privilage" each year

Comics
>Feature relatable characters that has personalities and flaw of any regular human
>Multiple stories created for certain characters that range from a variety of things like what if character was evil, what if character teamed with other character, what if no character, etc
>Different interpretations allow for many talking points about a comics character, brings multiple hours of discussion on a korean sweatshop website
>Actually has color and interesting art that makes it flow easily for the viewer to understand what's happen from page to page
>Sometimes gets a new show/movie made about a certain comic series that gives viewer a new experience from the original story, casting done, fx used, etc

Manga
>MCs of stories usually similar in some way with a few difference in them that makes it hard to enjoy them
>One story made only that allows reader to just read it once and always never have to worry about a revision happening
>Interest in discussion tied only to the one story given meaning that discussion will usually repeat itself without grasping at hidden meanings that aren't even there
>B/W color with mangas usually being weekly that makes it hard to interpret what's going on in the story, usually little art in the story as a result
>New media is basically just adapting the manga in a 1/1 fashion meaning you're basically just watching 30minutes of the same stuff you read in 5 minutes at a worse quality

>Comics are still dying to this because of people
It fucking hurts seeing what's becoming of the comic industry I just want to go back

Holy shit spoken like someone who has no idea runs exist

That's like saying manga is to sell 20 volumes of obvious "will they won't they" plots.

Maybe you should read more than the OP article?

Manga is notorious for having the worst endings or no ending at all. The best you'll get is a rushed ending with a vague epilogue. Otherwise they just keep going and become zombies with retcons and character nerfing and pointless filler arcs and glacial pacing to prolong the story.

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If you want to start a new current arc, you'll need to go back, what? 5 or 11 issues at most? Not a big deal. New readers just have to do some basic research.

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who the fuck is paying $20 for a comic which is like 1/20th the whole story when a movie is like $10?

>bait OP making a shitty comparison
>thread full of people taking it
No wonder clickbait succeeds

Remember how Goku was based off of Son Wukong from Journey to the West? Well Toriyama doesn't remember.

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>MCs of stories usually similar in some way with a few difference in them that makes it hard to enjoy them
Not likely, considering the huge variety of stories found in manga.

>New media is basically just adapting the manga in a 1/1 fashion meaning you're basically just watching 30minutes of the same stuff you read in 5 minutes at a worse quality
Manga adaptations vary a lot.

Or just go read manga where there's almost never any question as to where they should start.

Fuck, I’m old as shit and I don’t give a fuck about today’s comics. I’d read manga, but I can’t into right to left. I keep changing direction and going the wrong way.
I’d read it flipped, but that’s not an option.

We're talking about ALL white people here and not just your women. Not spit me some facts about how a minority is less likely to get a high-paying job compared to their white counterparts.

>Also, manga is kind of trash if you ask me. I can see the appeal but I don't see it overall being better than comics. Manga has its own set of problems and there are definite hacks in the industry. We're in the middle of an isekai flood and literally every manga in that genre is "this person was taken from our world to a fantasy world with a cheat skill."

Just like there is a contemporary flood of cape-comics? Or how Hollywood loved Western movies for decades about 70 years ago? And the isekai genre is getting big right now because people enjoy it and are making good stories. Simple as that. Genre floods happen. But in the case of manga, it still has a more diverse selection of choices available even with that flood than you'll find in the western comics.

The fact is unarguable though that Manga has not only more stories available they have more genres available than western comics from the Big Two. Even if you lump in indies, that number is still smaller than all of contemporary Manga.

And I note you don't seem to define why you feel manga is trash, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some tropes in manga/anime are indeed not for everyone.

All comics should transfer to a digital medium where you pay a subscription Netflix style to access them. Once they finally realize this and the person who implements this will make a lot off of it. I can guarantee you kids and teens like comics but the problem is accessibility and a need for more variety in them. The website Netflix style that allows digital comics would accommodate all genres and a person can read what they want.

Who is paying for a $10 movie when you can stay home and watch a 1minute montage summary of a porno to ejaculate to?

Found the weeb

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oh I thought I said "Mainstream" with the intention to refering that I was talking mostly about the big 2.

If there were more consistently good stories from good writters as comics, then they maybe would just kept selling better numbers.

So I guess a solution is pushing the name of the writters as a selling point to introduce new stories.

So marvel unlimited but no 6-month delay? Sure

Yeah, I wasn't enjoying it even though the artist of Bokko worked on it, so I dropped it.

Some of us like reading our stories from the start, user. Not chapter 57 of what will be 103.

There is literally like half a dozen of sites/apps that do this, at least. Including Marvel and DC.

>We're in the middle of an isekai flood
Then don't read isekai. People complain about this with anime too, and don't realize that they can just not watch them.

Well then they either need to advertise better or improve their site for accessibility. Because I guarantee the majority of kids don’t know they exist.

>isekai genre is getting big right now because people enjoy it and are making good stories
Even people who read manga wouldn't agree with you. Another annoying habit of isekai is the emphasis on putting the entire summary of a manga as the title. Dear isekai mangaka, stop that. Please.

I think he means something like that Shonen Jump app where you get new comics and such on launch day.

They just have to not rely so much on diamond. It’s bullshit how diamond is so shitty and yet they have a monopoly. The focus should be outside of shitty LCSes.

But since they are sticking to diamond I can only assume they are OK with current numbers

Literally not an argument. He's right you know.

He’s entirely wrong. Runs have a definite beginning, middle and end. You can stop after the end. If you choose to continue sticking with the title, it’s a whole new story.

>coffee table book
so it doubles a coffee table? cuz for $200 it better...

I'm 90% certain they've both gotten commercial advertisement. Hell there are even ones on the Nintendo Switch.
They're out there being advertised and available, just not for free unless you count the piracy ones.

That's a light novel thing, and these manga are probably adaptations of light novels.

I think the main problem here is people who just start reading don't know this.

I don't. Not anymore. But that's not going to stop me from talking about how the saturation is bad for the market. We've gotten to the point where entire stories are copied and passed around with just the name and occupation being changed. We have exterminator isekai, restaurant isekai, bar isekai, monster raising isekai, monster raising isekai involving a luchador, farming isekai, etc.

When are we going to talk about the ludicrous number of manga made every year that barely get any attention? Even comics and their many smaller publishers don't put out that many copycat comics. They still do but not as much as manga.

high schoolers are children you twat

I think on day release only is available is bought per issue, which I think most digital books cost like $0.99 or something kinda reasonable.

Do they offer a variety of comics or is it like only marvel or only dc comics?

>We're talking about ALL white people here and not just your women. Not spit me some facts about how a minority is less likely to get a high-paying job compared to their white counterparts.

>I can't refute even a single one your points, so I'll bring in something sounding tangentially related, and use that as my argument.

Minorities have no more problem getting hired in the industry if they have the merits (skills/experience) to get to the job than anyone else. Same as for white people. And no, thre isn't a gap disparity between minorities industry wide. Equal pay as been around and enforced for a long time.

There's still individual preference by employer. (I only hire purples, while you only hire greens!) But that's not a culture or industry wide thing.

More and more manga is being taken from light novels outside of isekai. The battle school harem stuff is another one that has been largely adapted from light novels. And then you get anime adaptations of the manga. And then the anime gets a game adaptation.

The marvel/DC ones are obviously only their brands, the others I think are more indie stuff because they're less expensive to license. Not a clue since I don't subscribe to any besides the DC one for tv shows and John Ostrander Spectre.

$400 for a comic book arc of some subpar story you won't realize becomes bad or half assed halfway into the publication

$10 for a movie of the story with acting and moving pictures and sound

What’s the luchador one?

That's not what anyone means by children, and there's a big difference between elementary schoolers and high schoolers. Why do people keep making this disingenuous non-argument?

>>isekai genre is getting big right now because people enjoy it and are making good stories

>Even people who read manga wouldn't agree with you.
>Dear isekai mangaka, stop that. Please

>I speak for every manga
>Never mind manga sales numbers and anime ratings

Dear user, stop that. Please.

So you based on your opinion on a single page you saw on Yea Forums said Hy a character you assume was being shown to be in the right because you want to be outraged??

That’s the issue. Instead of isolating everything is should be mostly one mass system website that offers a huge variety. They don’t have to share all their comics, they could give certain ones in different periods of time.

I know clickbait sites have shoddy journalism but this is next level. It’s not just the sales comparison that is dishonest, the rest has so much incorrect information too

I know many manga/anime fans are who are loving the expansion of this genre. I can't find one who is doesn't like it. But you know what they say, haters gonna hate.

If it weren't genuinely popular, would you be seeing so much of it?

Also, I regret finally clicking the article. It’s barely even relevant ITT

>acting and moving pictures with sound makes something good

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What? Are you agreeing with the first user, or the second user?

One Piece at the surface is a happy pirate adventure. And then you run into the world government and the (((tenryuubito))) as well as other pirate groups and realize they are but pieces in a long game.

Maybe it's because people hate having to read Doctor strange #24 of the 90s run and spiderman #89 to understand a full arching story.

So you're FOR monopolies? Because monopolies is what caused people to bitch about Diamond Distribution and bitch about Disney buying up so many entertainment industries.

>DC actively shuns their continuity and doesn't let their trade paperback volume numbers run into double digits. Marvel embraces their continuity a little more
>Marvel embraces their continuity a little more

This is absolute horse shit. Seriously why lie? This isn't even an opinion you can hold it's just untrue.

Neither are particularly fond of their older works but to imagine marvel publishes and acknowledges it's old continuity is to embrace an alternate reality.

That same argument could be made for the over-prevelance of Sci-Fi in the USA for the last 20 years, compared to the dearth of other shows.

Sometimes it sucks but if people like it, it's popular. I weep for the lack of my favorite genres having been largely neglected since the 1980s.

However I have to say, isekai is just a tool for writers to tell a story. We're just seeing a resurgence of its use recently. People use other tropes/tools poorly or well over the decades.

Im for accessibility. But I’m not entirely sure how to accomplish that.

But that’s wrong too. Take out them altogether and it’s still higher than manga

People claiming "diversity in genre" as one of the reasons manga is doing well are fucking retarded, literally every publisher that doesn't exclusively publish battle shonen a la shonen jump is dying, fast, way faster than comics books are dying in the west.

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Neither hold their older comics in esteem because wokefags will call them racists and bigots for the shit that was in them.

It's also true that current writers legitimately think they could rewrite the older stories only better.

You say this like it matters. Who cares?

Also most "creative teams" or "solo" artist/writers in manga are actually teams of fucking people. This is like imagining JK rowlings dumb ass was knocking out those Harry Potter books solo rather than scholastic pretty muc just handing plots to teams.

How the fuck do people enjoy never ending capeshit? It baffles me is build to gradually lost the attention of your old audience to catch the attention of a new one except this time there is not new audience.

>to understand a full arching story
You're posting on Yea Forums in a thread about comics. You shouldn't be such a casual.

Not a single comic on stands right now requires previous reading.

>oneangrygamer

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You say that as if having to read 100s of chapters/issues to get to the current arc is any different.

I could ask the same about people who enjoy hundreds and hundreds of chapters of the same meandering manga.

Source?
And WSJ doesn’t exclusively publish battle shonen, Promised Neverland is one of their second biggest title

>Promised Neverland
Is now a battle shonen

Haikyuu would be better example.

A big part of it in modern times is I've heard plenty of comic sales are done through those Scholastic Book Catalog sale things (like how'd you get Captain Underpants when you were a kid in grade school).
I honestly anything with online access will have to compete with piracy, which can still make some creators money since people will give free books a chance and "like it buy it" but it would be unrealistic to think piracy doesn't cut into sales on some level.
As for physical I can't imagine there is much they can do to improve. Singles get stuck at niche comic stores cause regular bookstores don't want piles of magazine backlogs, and comic companies struggle to figure out what is popular because you often can't wait for sales number on paperback trades.

in all honesty, its really a shame american comic companies didnt try to learn anything from manga. i really wanted crossover style manga-influenced comics in the mainstream market. i was actually looking forward to it and believed they would be new mainstream comics in the future.

looking back, america once had such a moment in 2008 or so, with the first rise of weeaboo culture, that wasnt actually so fake compared to business western anime shit like marvel mangaverse, but it literally vanished into thin air and instead culture war garbage happened and is taking over every american industry, plus comic pros and media are getting more and more "conservative" against foreign values.

the only good news is french comic artists/cartoonist have actually achieved such crossover stuff. but let me say this again, i really wanted the american mainstream comic/cartoon industry to be like that.

Get woke, go broke.

Because those mangas don’t get interrupted by garbage events, don’t need to read 3 fucking mini series and doesn’t have six “issue #1”

>i really wanted crossover style manga-influenced comics in the mainstream market
"OEL manga" is already mainstream in America and actually sells really well.

You sound like a carolfag.

Most characters back catalogs are pretty straight forward.

>plus comic pros and media are getting more and more "conservative" against foreign values.
This isn't true at all.

Going broke by...making more money? What a novel concept

>in all honesty, its really a shame american comic companies didnt try to learn anything from manga. i really wanted crossover style manga-influenced comics in the mainstream market
This doesn't say anything beside
>I like manga how come American comics couldn't just make manga

I think user was implying the American comics going woke created a hole for manga to fill.

Manga grew, yes, but comics grew as well. It's a sign of a healthy market

Comic sales shrunk, these past two years. Price per unit (thanks to having a bunch of anniversary and relaunch books) is why the revenue grew.

Is there a big two in manga? I guess it's really just Viz media. I mean there is Yenpress and Seven Seas, but I don't think they have the big boys like Viz does.

Comics grew? Didn't retailers complained about the direction that Marvel Comics were going? Even the non-Big2 comic companies started to complain about how Marvel's terrible comics is causing their sales to suffer.

Don't we have this thread at least once a month or so? Mostly with the same responses of Manga being easier to get into than comics with a whole host of titles versus capes if you don't bother with indies

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>comics grew
lol

OEL manga was literally the product of the first weeb movement. I dont believe they are still popular or get social exposure.

its true for me. they dont write/draw any foreign "culture" or "people". its always "american style diversity in america" and the like. why arent american comics writers/artists in the mainstream industry making comics set in a foreign city like a modern japanese city or euro city or whatever?

id definitely buy a comic where an american superhero visits japan and cooperates with a japanese hero or some japanese cool dudes and fights together if it existed. there however is no such thing.

>Comic sales shrunk,
Direct sales only, as diamond is taken over by bookstores

You're quite late

>lol
Any argument here? Like hell, look at the bookscan data, and only at big 2 if you choose to discard children's books

It seems like to me it's always impossible to compare comics to manga.

I mean you have the $4 monthly issue, #20 trades (luckily you can get them as low as 12 on Amazon) and some $60-$100 hardcover
vs
$10 manga

Sure manga has recently gotten into the hardcovers and the 3-in-1 but that's still oinly staring.

saying that doesnt make it true, i shouldnt have to read x-men to have to know whats happening with the guardians

>i shouldnt have to read x-men to have to know whats happening with the guardians
...you don't

>nononono if you reread the data and ignore the bad things, I'm RIGHT

Nobody here reads manga?

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We should all just meet in the middle and ALL READ USAGI YOJIMBO.

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>>nononono if you reread the data and ignore the bad things, I'm RIGHT
Nigga diamond getting replaced is the opposite of bad

I always see that in Manga vs Comics, manga seems the most profitable in the west.

Manga:
1 translater
1 redrawer

vs

Comic:
>Writer
>letterer
>artist
>colorist
>editor

While manga doesn't make as much, they don't have to pay as much.

Kodansha
Shueisha (technically Shogakukan own 50%)
Shogakukan

>Beastars
Fucking furry.

It's a really good series. Binged 100+ chapter over a weekend.

I tend to get mine for like $7 on Amazon

>...
Get the fuck out

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It's funny how you got called delusional and a liar even though every single /shelf/ thread will agree with you.

I DID IT, I TRAVELLED BACK IN TIME.

IT'S 2008 AGAIN

Junji Ito?

Shelfags are the biggest losers in this board.

>id definitely buy a comic where an american superhero visits japan and cooperates with a japanese hero or some japanese cool dudes and fights together if it existed. there however is no such thing.
You mean like new super-man

Beside that conservative is not the word you're looking for. And no I'm not deciding the only look at one definition of the word. It doesn't fit.

This isn't true at all. Comic sales per unit did not grow.

user I said above and I'll say it again there is not one single comic from the big two you need to read back issue to understand. You're living a lie you prefer as opposed to reality.

I thought we were talking about current titles here?

Go be a degenerate elsewhere you furry.

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lol are you serious?

The guys that actually buy comics and collected editions religiously instead of spouting out baseless bullshit about sales based on their biases towards Marvel/DC are the biggest losers, that's a funny one, please keep going.

I remember when comics took risks and had semi naked women in every page
I remember when battles lasted for more than 1 page
I remember when comics had cute wholesome subplots about random shit like saving dogs or promoting Twinkies

But those days are over
Comics.... comics are dead, bury them.... consider this mercy

As I said, I've read plenty of horror/guro. Junji Ito was the first one I checked out, about eight years ago.

Not as it used to. I think nowadays it's only like 1-2 behind.

Sure it might take awhile for the first volume to release but it's usually to see if it 's worth releasing.

> not one single comic from the big two you need to read back issue
Except huge parts of the story suddenly disappear and you don't understand how they got from point a to point b if you say otherwise you're just lying through your teeth
Its 4 years old not twenty.

>Comic sales per unit did not grow
Damn DC crashed really badly in 2018, marvel did grow in units

It says right in the pic Gotg and X-men

They buy trades like fucking casuals.

Floppy readers matter not faggot ass casuals who steal comics until they feel they're worth buying.

>Except huge parts of the story suddenly disappear and you don't understand how they got from point a to point b
Name one example

And it in no way mattered to what was happening line-wide. Are you really this much of a casual?

Innocent, Medical Team Dragon or Yuureitou

Show me a source backing the claim that she shipped more units in 2018 than 2017 (which was already down from 2016).

Did you even read the arc?

>While Western Comic Book Sales Decline

No surprise here
Who want to buy this shit made for retard kids?

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They buy but don't read. Because then they sell those books like they were printed in gold.

No. he googled a crossover and didn't know a thing about it.

He's just talking out of his ass like all f/a/ggots do.

>pay 4 dollars for this zero consequences story
Literal filler episodes, that's what most comic arcs are nowadays

I’m looking at bookscan only
>1,142,061 units in 2017
>1,180,202 units in 2018

>Floppy readers matter not faggot ass casuals who steal comics until they feel they're worth buying.
Oh that's why the thread is full of pictures of floppies? Dumbass.
And you DO read them, right?

>shifting goalposts after getting called out for having no idea what he is talking about

I notice that you don't deny what I said. Nice.

The decline in sales began with Disney acquiring Marvel comics

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Story is shit but Gihiru's art is based tho

Stop moving he goalposts. Also, stop implying manga doesn't have decades of filler in some instances.

It's easy to take a picture of a shelf. But proving you're the owner of the shelf is hard.

>And it in no way mattered to what was happening line-wide
Ohhh so its a garbage story that has no bearing to the plot, no wonder fewer and fewer people buy cross over events
World War Hulk

Is that why black panther and Captain Marvel surpassed their budgets?

Not being a dick or difficult do you have the link? I'd have expected yoshida to brag about this more.

>links the thread rather than a post with floppies
Nah. Fuck off faggot.

That was someone else but you're projecting.

WWH is 12 years old. It has no bearing on what is being published now.

No, this is based

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We're two different anons.

Why let someone else respond for you? Go ahead and reply.

I like both styles

>Ohhh so its a garbage story that has no bearing to the plot, no wonder fewer and fewer people buy cross over events
Moving the goalposts again. Or will you claim this wasn't you again?

As long as Marvel doesn't return to its origins, sales will continue to fall.

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this, capeshit has become a tiring fad despite not having watched any of the marvel movies. I also keep hearing about how garbage new DC and Marvel comics have become nowadays. I still prefer regular non- superhero comics to weeb shit that caters mostly to teens.

comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-274-looking-at-bookscan-for-2018/

The falling revenue and units are mostly due to graphic novels for DC crashing

From here:
blog.comichron.com/2019/01/the-2018-two-thousand-look-at-1000-top.html

Top 1000 direct market unit sales for comics actually increased

yeah, because it's only worse now. Remember 3 jokers?

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90s was when it was pretty much the bottom though

Goalpost moving like a champ
No that is me, you were replying to someone else, but stop projecting champ. You're arguing how good comic stories are and then the next second saying that story doesnt matter.

And those fillers have tons of sexy semi naked sluts, brutal deaths, hyper violence and rapes

Nu Comic books are nothing but talk talk talk shit then 1HKO the main villain in a single shitty panel.

Beastars is a fantastic series.
Until your bones rot was fun
Roujoteki Shoujo Hinata-chan is cute
Ane Naru Mono is a series I don't think anyone expects a happy ending.

I don't think manga will ever replace western comic books
because the Japanese authors don't even try to be like that in the first place. Even if publishers want more money from it, author's attitude won't change easily. Japanese can't help being naive and insular just like Americans can't help being politically self-righteous.
Also, American authors will just start to write in manga-style if it's really becoming popular.

If western comic book is really dying, they asked for it. That's not really related to manga's success.

True, but I don't think that's a fair comparison, Weebs are fanboys of manga, any media has diehard fans and certainly comics don't escape either.
The big difference is that weebs, althought very doing dumb things, don't have an politically correct ground from where they can demand and repent complain that a creator isn't inclusive enough or some sorts

The real problem is availability. Manga readers can just read shit online and go pick it up in the store. Floppies aren't really sold anywhere outside of comic shops and most people dont know comics besides superheroes and newspaper strips exist. Most book stores I've been to have dont a pretty good job promoting graphic novels and trades but if you want prolonged serialized stores, especially non-cape ones, to succeed you need a way for people to read them.

>Beside that conservative is not the word you're looking for.

then would "xenophobic" be the right word? either way, american writers/artists are a bit too insular.
why do american writers not even try to make a story set in a foreign city and give its people main roles. manga has a hell of a lot of foreign characters and stories set in various foreign countries. also it has a bunch of stories where japanese protags and foreign ones get together and hang out/fight together with villains. its definitely one of the reasons manga/anime is getting this popular in the west. its internationally for everyone.

agree peni shit was somewhat good tho but she doenst have any series of her own now, and yoshida wouldnt take such a risk of releasing it.

Floppies are just a garbage value they are expensive, short, fragile, and annoying to store.
Anyone with any sense trade waits. Manga circumvents this by publishing magazines instead and then selling the volumes later. Seems to work a lot better.

I agree that the manga creation is a team based job, and althought it has severe differences with the american process I think the most important one is that generally (for big authors this might change) the manga creator's work is much more "open", pretty much everything they do is up to them (even when there's an editor), and there are some famous names like the author of HunterXHunter that don't hire assistants just because he doesn't want to.
That analogy you make is ridiculous too, one guy writes the other draws (if not the same guy) and assistants just do background stuff or shades, they never re-write or re-draw anything nor they take the idea of the creator and develope it on their own

Not even gonna bother reading since it’s OneAngryBoomer

That was also a different user, heres a reply

Yeah, I know Island tried to be an anthology series but got canceled. I don't know if it could really work in the American market. Personally I think it'd be cool to publish a comic anthology aimed toward kids to try to hook them early.

Read anything from Matsumoto Taiyou, I would reccomend Sunny
from your pic you might also like Igarashi Daisuke, Children of the sea
Dorohedoro maybe?

What is this? Google isn’t giving squat.

Neither one is good, they're both getting actively worse. Manga is a bit less heavy handed in hiding sex. That's the majority of it, from what I've seen. People just want to jack off and one industry isn't calling you the devil.

>manga is kind of trash if you ask me
You were writing the best responce in this thread until you wrote this, every single well read comic fan feels like he needs to make a choice between the two

US comics are like that
Now The Mouse stole the mojo from the creators

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Thanks, good list, I think. It motivates me to start reading manga. So far I'm only watching anime.

The numbers of genres is really huge...

Defund your colleges and universities, at least the social, culture, gender, and alike clases

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Somewhat true, but again it feels way better to have a real closure than no closure at all, and that happens in manga very rarely in percentage.

"Kemono Michi," it gets an anime this October.

this is either very ignorant or straight up baitt

What point are you attempting to make?

Me and the other user have said a single thing you can even attempt to spin as a projection. Why shitpost like this?

You too, do you even know what you're arguing beside "I think manga is better than American comics."

Not quite though I almost said it as an alternative too. Like "nationalistic" it implies writers (who by and large are very very one might say extremely liberal) think of America as the best. They're American centric but hardly in a positive light.

Though in principal I do agree. You might try Morrisons green lantern as although hal is an earthling he's the only one we've seen since issue 1. they dont do that because they don't have the time. Most mangaka don't have the leeway togashi has. And it's not absurd you just dislike that it doesn't fit your view.

The America TPBs didn't sell well? Didn't they try to push that through schools so we can woke a generation of lesbian sort of latinx people?

They guys behind jawbreakers are literally saving the comic industry
>great coloring style with no obnoxious textures, looks straight out of the 90s - 00s
>great characters, women are allowed to show skin
>action lasts for more than 1 page

SO GOOD

>Japan never had that limitation, so manga started tackling more adult topics at a faster rate
Innacurate. After WWII Japan was under USA control and it included a version of the comic code. manga and anime stayed really "safe" fo decades until people like Go NAgai arrived and started to make stories that broke the taboos on about everything, from drugs to violence, to relatable loser MC to competent and sexy women MC. Manga aquired its current freedom and diversity of theme piece by piece, author by author.

I know we´re not talking anime but this season has 57 running series and 4 series are Isekai, for a subgenre is a big number but still, you can see that althought they are hot right now, I don't think saturation is the appropriate word to describe the situation.

>OneAngryManChild

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>"I think manga is better than American comics."
I support Jawbreakers and uncle Ethan tho

REAL comics > manga >>>>>>> literal garbage >>>>>>>>> nu comics aka tumblr garage written by literal weirdos and women
Like bitch, men need fanservice too, you don't see me writing your cowboy fantasy novels, leave us alone

Kevin Goodman

Stop shilling your shit here retard

>Talks about how good revisiting a story is to get many perspectives from a single world
>Says that using the same "copy-paste" story but with different perspectives is boring and dumb

>The perfect example
>literally proves yourself wrong
ok, you need to stop now

Great Teacher Onizuka is amazing.

lmaoooooo

>you're lumping everything into Marvel and DC.
how dare people only consider 95% of the market?

that price raise happened 10 years ago, at least among viz titles. SJ were always 7.95 and then they became 9.99 in 2009 or so.

t. Rodriguez
Ghost Spider dabbed all over your work
You can't draw for shit, bitch, deal with it

>>literally proves yourself wrong
How? Dragonball is famous for exec meddling

most current arcs still relly on shit started 10+ years ago, sometime in several different arcs that contain "cancelled" ideas that means that even if you read frm there it's still a mess

You're a bigger faggot than scioli.

Comicsgate is for smelly faggots who need friends. Patricians laugh at you faggots as much as we REE toward the literal faggots and men in dresses. You're all terrible for the industry.

He's so fucking weird.

user, the trick to baiting is not to make it obvious. But then again, this bait thread made with a very poorly written article will get to 500 replies so you know what go ahead

But you just reposted the link instead of the archive, you dumb SJW cuck.

>Any argument here?
burden of proof on your side.

>I don't want to learn truth, I have a list of ad hominems WE WON
have puberty

>rorschach avatar
LMAO

>exec
yeah, every word you use is literally wrong, over and over, you are lost in a fanatical fantasy, in a made up world you created to be right, based on your rage and hate. wake up, or die, but don't stay there.

Leave Scioli alone.

You do know that the entire cell saga was changed multiple times thanks to editorial changes

Explain how anons use of the word executive is incorrect.

Dragon Ball was supposed to with frieza.

Yea Forums approved comicbook.com also wrote a similar article tho.

comicbook.com/anime/2019/07/06/anime-executives-manga-taking-over-us-comic-sales-anime-expo/

is this clickbait too?

Nothing, aside from original manga, is canon. Especially DB Minus.

>Me and the other user
Nigga you said that comics don't require back issues to understand i gave you two titles where not reading the back issues removes large chunks of plots, instead of acknowledging that this is a largely unavoidable problem of long running comics you started goal post moving.

It was supposed to end after the first wish made by oolong

The fuck are you going to do about it user? I'll leave him alone When you faggots agree to leave Yea Forums alone.

Otherwise anytime him or any of you come here you'll be greeted with a reminder of how much of a faggot he is.

>You're all terrible for the industry.
They're not the ones driving away audiences in droves. Hell, their stuff sells better than most of the mainstream comics, and with none of the distribution benefits! So how are they hurting anything?

>One Angry Hypocrite
Anyway, the "reason" this is happening is because Diamond doesn't count digital sales and TPB. It's the reason why that kid's graphic novel sold for girls is counted in the millions, it's because it doesn't follow the retarded ass way comic sales are counted.

I think another thing that helps is those books are the only way to get the issues. Should I buy floppy’s or trades? If I get the floppy which cover should I get? If I get the trade should I buy the first set of trades or wait for an omnibus? Oh this trade covers issues 9-14 and 17 to get issues 15 and 16 I have to buy the ultra mega event companion book, not even the ultra event main book. And that’s not even talking about starting to read cape shit and having to dig through which number one would be the best starting point

Who are you responding to?

I like Morrison's work I like 90s 80s and 70s stuff I love silly stuff like Cosmic Ghost Rider and Colonel Sanders vs The Evil Colonel
I think Gwenpool was cute. I liked Ghost spider too. I like Fran Cho's way of drawing women
You know what I don't like I don't like when fags like Rodriguez and Bendis self insert their Oc trash faggots and ruin entire works just because abloo bloo muh twitter followers look how progressive I am.
I hate politics, stay ON MODEL I don't wanna see my heroes change. I don't want your indie artsyles on my super commercial comic book heroes. respect their designs, respect their face ratios, respect their back stories or fuck off

No, because the article isn't making a shit comparison and basing the entire article off it. it's reporting what the execs said

Nigga we're discussing comics as they are, not as they were in 2007.

WWH has no relation to anything happening in marvel at the moment. Why do you insist on discussing the American comic industry of 12 years ago in relation to manga now?

Did he legit just make an entire article sperging over a game demo?

Manga is more consistent overall. Unlike comics where Batman could go through one decent storyline then shit it up when the writer or artist changes for the next one

>Hell, their stuff sells better than most of the mainstream comics
HAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHA

You can't even sell better than ironheart, jesus

That's all gaming journalism is nowadays

>I love silly stuff like Cosmic Ghost Rider
And post discarded

>Hell, their stuff sells better than most of the mainstream comics
No, they don't. They just charge literal retards 10 dollars for a single floppy.

Units shipped matters.

And they've chased hundreds of their own "fans" away in less than a year. When any of them reach issue 10 I'll care.

To add to the trashfire that's this thread, how well did those Comicsgate comics get? Like Jawbreakers sucked, but I heard those rabbit comics did well

come on m8, they are different media, different experiences, that's like saying
Why pay $10 if I can just ask my friend that watched the movie to tell me what's it abou?

>Patricians laugh at you faggots
that level of fanatical virtue signalling can't be healthy

>REAL
You know you lost every bit of credibility when you resort to a no true scottsman in all caps

What rabbit comics

Apparently, there's a line of Comicsgate approved comics starring a rabbit saving the day with Bruce Willis expys and Trump expys. I heard they're above average by indie comics standards

are you the writer from comicbook.com? they literally assert "manga taking over us comic sales" as the title. its the same clickbait shit.

at least this thread isnt pointless, and matters to some extent since both sjw faggot site and nazi site cover the issue

Ouch, the edge.

then see Not that it matters considering as i said it is a consistent problem with, everytime they go hey remember WWH wink wink.

You've been flaseflagging as a CG faggot for over an hour now why come out and be this blatant now?

Just a heads up, literalfaggot, Yea Forums isn't a comicsgate friendly place. There's no need to act like anyone here thinks CG is saving the industry. So there's no need to falseflag as a disgruntled comicsgate purchaser with buyers remorse.

>they literally assert "manga taking over us comic sales" as the title.
Ok fair, I skimmed the article, turns out it's execs speculating

Currently only 4 out of 16 series in WSJ are strictly battle shonen

>I know what I'll do about it, I'll reply!
Pathetic.

Then go back to:
Or

Well most of them will devolve into battle shonen soon enough, no worries

>Just a heads up, literalfaggot, Yea Forums isn't a comicsgate friendly place.
>I speak for all of Yea Forums
stop embarrassing yourself

Imagine being this mad.

i got used to reading right to left fairly quickly, so much so that i find myself unintentionally doing it with western comics sometimes. it used to be fairly normal for manga to be "flipped". I used to have all the Battle Angel volumes that read left to right, and they were slightly larger than the typical anime digest size. Last Order was also being released in traditional western 22-30 page comic book form. you don't see that much anymore though.
my biggest problem with manga is the size. i hate the small digest size of the volumes. i love it when certain series get released in traditional graphic novel size like Akira, the Berserk Omnibuses, High School of the Dead, and the Blame & Knights of Sidonia Master Editions

More goalpost moving. Imagine my surprise.

>SJWs will save us

No. More like Comicsgate will save us.

see You have no real arguments.

The variety of stories and quality in manga is fucking absurd. No one who knows what they're talking about would even question this state of affairs. American comics are an utter failure of an industry.

Well, you're asking for attention...

>you can be embarrassed once an anonymous forum
That's a yikes from me dawg. Is this your first day here?

Imagine being this offended.

I literally just made that one post because this thread is going to die in the next hour. Anyway what's the status of that dumb Pheonix Comic where the dude dresses up as a Village People backup dancer and beats up Mexicans?

>This buttblasted
Are you?

As are you, then.

There are a lot of extremely good manga that put comics to shame, however there are a fuckton of shitty manga out there

Thats a good point. manga encapsulates a lot of different stories and genres.

they're also typically only half the cost of a graphic novel and often containing more content per volume.

I've recently started reading a lot of manga and even buying issues, but I rarely ever consider buying graphic novels because $20 a book is just more than I want to spend, however it feel much easier to justify buying one book at $10-$13 or two for almost the price as a DC/Marvel comic.

But it's true. Most people on Yea Forums can see what a blatant outrage scam CasualGate is-- You'll never be GamerGate.

and it's the same vice versa

He's just a bitter old man. Ignore him.

No matter how many Americas and Calexit come out we can never get as bad as
>Make my body clean again

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user

Don't quote a post actually restate what you'd like to discuss.

I expect you'll still quote something rather than doing this because ya much easier to continue to shitpost.

>The point was comics don't sell
>The flawed explanation was that crossovers are all necessary.
>me and others noted that isnt true especially these days
>user posts a random mini that didn't matter in order to make the point everything is required reading
>multiple anons say it didn't matter
>user changes the subject to comics suck because not everything matters

That is step by step what happened.

So please, without quoting posts, if you'd like to have a discussion state word for word what you'd like to discuss.

I said offended. Stop being so offended and learn to use the site.

But user disagrees so apparently he's right.

Same
Today's comics are fucking shit. If it ain't broken don't fix it
I miss that old "street" feel of comics, so colorful and simple with tons of grounded stylization. Nowadays everything has to look straight out of deviantart with gray color palettes, a shit ton of filters, traced figures, traced faces and political messages just no.

>>user changes the subject to comics suck because not everything matters
I never got this argument at all. 99% of fiction doesn't matter outside of itself. All that matters is that that fictional work is enjoyable

It makes zero sense. I suspect user is just a f/a/ggot baiting ITT

Not that user but people having been using fiction to push politics for a long time
In these cases the agenda is more important than being enjoyable

It's because - and I don't let anyone try lying about it - comicsgate had its big start with the milkshake shit which was LITERALLY faggots being angry women went out for a company luncheon.

Out of the gate it was fully pathetic but because of the Polaric nature of the industry and American society currently most people either withdrew from caring or side with one or the other.

delete this

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>Not that user but people having been using fiction to push politics for a long time
And still it doesn't matter because a great majority of them won't be influential enough

>Innocent, Medical Team Dragon or Yuureitou
Thank you for answering something different, but I wouldn't consider these anywhere near 10/10. Tarou Nogizaka is a solid artist, though.
>Beastars is a fantastic series.
Picked up. We'll see how it goes.
>Until your bones rot was fun
>Roujoteki Shoujo Hinata-chan is cute
>Ane Naru Mono is a series I don't think anyone expects a happy ending.
These aren't 10/10 material. Roujoteki Shoujo Hinata-chan was cute, but I'm not looking for that.
Taiyou Matsumoto is one of the few mangaka I like, but I've read all his stuff, thanks. I've also read Daisuke Igarashi (Children of the Sea, Witches, Umwelt), and I didn't enjoy Dorohedoro.
I didn't like it, sorry.

Thank you for the suggestions. I'm not looking for ecchi or moe manga. I'm looking for well-written manga for experienced readers, something not necessarily accessible.

That has nothing to do with what user or I said.

That's why xmen Grand Design is selling so well, cause people miss that style

But nope gotta pander to twitter roasties who don't even buy comics by hiring Shadow the Binary writer and Sparklequeen the tumblr artist who can't even draw a fucking face without resorting to calarts and anime symbols

>cause people miss that style
Yeah, cause people miss that style, and not because it attempts to sum up the entire history of the x-men

t. Sparklequeen
Learn to draw faggot

ok, I can't wait for Act-age and Yuragi-sou to start kicking some ass

Why do people act like IDW comics have big audiences?

I know, I just wanted to point out that media is no longer about entertainment

user we can't force Ed Piskor and friends to draw every comic, we can pay him to do it but we can't get him to do every comic

user I know you see your boogeymen everywhere but you aren't even making sense

Its a shame you didn't like Dorohedoro.
For something like Taiyou but a little more hummorous what about Shinzo Keigo? Hommunculus is pretty weird but a nice read too

faggot.

The buck stops with Eiichiro Oda or Akira Toriyama however, its literally them and their editor with suggestions coming up with the story beats with the team helping out with the artwork based off their designs

So mainstream Western comic publishers are the GW and Apple of their respective industry. That's just great.

I don't think it's the writing more so that people are tired of capeshit. Movie goers don't read and book buyers have a bias against graphic novels especially of the capeshit kind.

>Shinzo Keigo
I'll look into him. I've already read Homunculus and Ichi the Killer. Thank you.
I assure you I read more comics than you or anyone in this thread.

I think its more about the quality of Cape comics

>Comicsgate will save us
From what I've seen, none of the comics from CasualGate haven't done anything that's made them noteworthy (other than the fuckton of drama)

Attached: 1559845185054.jpg (1200x1200, 381K)

I assure you, you do not.

That's because getting rid of the scapegoat doesn't solve anything

This

C O P E
O
P
E

If readers dont care for capes than why are My hero academia and OPM so popular

Well, at least kids are reading comics.