What would it take for traditional animation to make a comeback to mainstream?

The deviantart generation was a mistake

Its time for The Mouse... to end.

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Based Luke Chadwalker!

no we're not

Robots capable of detailed 2D drawing with artistic flair.

At no point in her design did she ever have ears. It's uncanny and not pretty to look at.

The CG style looks such shit. Every pretty girl looks like ANTZ

I once dreamed of Mark Hammil leading some sort of armed revolution against Disney's headquarters.

I'm saddened it will only be a dream.

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>easy to draw, animefied face ratios
INTO THE FUCKING TRASH
GenX fags can't draw for shit

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It would require somebody with a lot of money and respect and a ton of love for quality, classic animation, like a Steven Spielberg, to influence companies to be willing to spend the money to produce it again. At the moment, there isn't a figure like that in Hollywood who would be in any position to make that happen.

Solar emp that wipes out humanities eletronic devices. A lot of good people would die and humanty would be thrown back by 150 years but at least when shit settles down we would have 50 years of traditional animation as technology is quickly recreated.
pretty sure 3d will be full automated long before 2d due to market demand.

AI tweeners.

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Me, I'll be that person. I just need the money.

Or her hair was styled over her ears

They look younger, however they are nowhere near as good looking as the old movies.
But why?

Looks like they got a bad case of anime sameface.

You'd have to go back in time and assassinate Haim Saban before he successfully convinced all producers of cartoons that you don't need to spend money to make money.

CG Belle looks legitimately terrifying. She looks like she's saying, "REMEMBER ME, EDDIE????"

2D is over in the eyes of companies. Stop motion is dead too and only done by some spoiled brat. The photorealistic style they went for in The Lion King is being mocked online but will still make billions.

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The OhMyDisney Princesses are supposed to look like cheap whores and boy do they ever.

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God I wish they had worked Judge Doom into a Villains lineup somehow this was literally the perfect fucking setting for it with Ralph trying to (slightly) destroy a cartoon world.

for there to be something innotative and worthwhile to do with it. 3d animation is a young medium so there is plenty of new things to do with it. disney invents like three new computer programs with every film they make. embrace change and growth of a medium, luddite

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The Frozen team is in everything except character head and face design the leading edge of computer animation right now.

>he doesn't like Shiyoon Kim and his influence
Sucks to be you, he's doing great work.

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Why him? Why not Hanna & Barbara or Scheimer, Sutherland, and Prescott?

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they skinny'd up snow white, she looks fuckin anorexic
why aren't the SJW boogeywomen up in arms about this shit

it has to be a vanity project from a big name, so basically never

CGI is too easy to adjust, the pipeline for it is efficient for every studio, you can underpay computer dudes more than traditional artists, etc

only way it gets made is if somebody like a nolan, spielberg, scrosese, etc tells a studio they want to do an animated film, and those guys are rare and wouldn't use their blank check on a film like that to begin with. no future CEO will do it either because of business

I'm sad so much good work gets done just for storyboards.

>anime is bad because it's easy
Wow, yeah, man, look at Cindy from '57, with no shading, at all, just 2d flats on every surface

SJWs don't give a shit about Wreck-it Ralph it's like the National Lampoon's Animal House of Disney intellectual properties.

On that note I want OMD Cindy to give me a handjob with gloves on like Mandy Pepperidge in that movie.

Eventually AI will learn to draw.

>classic American animation
>animeified
There isn't enough room in hell for you.

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>bought star wars
>bought marvel
>bought fox
>bought blue sky
How long until they buy up everything, including the air we breathe?

Everyone looks the fucking same now

> we would have 50 years of traditional animation as technology is quickly recreated.

What makes you think whoever rebuilt technology wouldn't just jump back to where it was when we left off?

It's amazing how in Kingdom Hearts they seem more faithful to their original appearances.

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would be good artstyle for another sequel

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I said -animefied face ratios-
not animefied animation

Those ratios are piss easy to draw. He probably drew her character sheet in less than an hour
Literally souless copy paste shit

Something something Miyazaki self-incestuous art easier, I'm probably miss-quoting, etc.

CG when high budget looks like something real. That's what mainstream normie audiences want. They want some thing that look real. 2D cannot look real by default. Get it now?

>a bunch of underpaid literally who japs can stay on model but overpaid genX disney artists can't

Oh nononono HAHAHAHA

snow white is cute

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Showing ears is a sign that the person is a slut, it starts with the ears but god only knows where it stops

I love traditional animation and traditionally animated movies and these pencil tests and everything, but I feel like Disney's final cleanup and lines have been kinda sterile towards the end, like the basis, the motion, the frames etc were all good, but the final result looked kinda too clean and soulless, almost like vectors. It kinda lost volume and depth and the airbrush shading was bad, felt like it was a disservice to all the work that went into it, they were being too safe, the lines should've had more variation, the coloring brushes should've been unique, etc.

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Are you being dumb on purpose ? Her ears are hidden behind her hair

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It's never coming back... at least not the way you want it. It's either creepy uncanny valley CGI or CalArts toon boom. No network is going to spend the time or money to make quality 2d content when they cam just pump out creepy 3d and rake in billions.

First corporate war when?

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Lineless 2D is pretty cool

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Soul..

I remember soul..

Pictures came with soul..

A painter in my mind

Tell me what you see…

>anime sameface
I mean if you can distinguish between the faces of Belle, Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty from the originals while excluding their hair and maybe their eye color... you're doing better than me
>disney sameface
Heck, they re-used many of the same animation frames with Snow White, Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty

Early Disney using Lots and LOTS of Rotoscoping. Because the fine artists he hired are learning how to animate. The process evolved, they found shorthand methods to save on budget, and speed up prodution, later films get cartoony vibe, but better expression.

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You wanna know why? Because you're looking at a top row of pictures of different styles used over fucking decades vs. a single movie where they wanted all the characters to look like they belong in the same world.

There's a lot of CG designs you could compare and they would look different. But doing shit like comparing Moana next to Elsa is as retarded as comparing Belle next to Ariel. They're part of the same "era". Very rarely does a studio do entirely different art styles from one film to the next. Dreamworks is one of the few where Dragons looks different from Trolls looks different from Underpants.

Funny how people always post pencil tests as the superior animation but never want to post final 2D products to demonstrate how much "better" 2D is. Very easy just to put Beauty and the Beast next to that CG clip.

Oh, but I guess pencil tests and sketches always look better and that would destroy your point.

>wreck it ralph 2 thread

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I like that reference.

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It's because the bottom is a unified style. They still have different facial structure and even eye shape, you're just zeroing in on the irises.
The top row images also span 1937-1991

I generally prefer anime to western styles but I much prefer this Cinderella to the modern design. A lot more graceful and fair looking.

Fuck yourself, tastelet

Post the fully traditionally animated scene from Frozen so we can compare

A clip of any 2D Disney film would still look better, they just used the pencil test because they're for the same scene you tard.

I'm a fan of most of Shiyoon Kim's work but there is something a bit depressing about seeing all the Princesses take on the same typical cute proportions.

Violent revolution and redistribution of wealth. The proletariat must rise against the bourgeois and sieze the meams of production.

>He stopped reading my post halfway

Here you go, you fucking retard.
>"Very easy just to put Beauty and the Beast next to that CG clip."

Their style and technique didn't drastically change. Any Princess and the Frog clip could easily do the comparison job.

Traditionally animated western "hentai" is based.

But it's objective truth that people prefer the roughness of a sketch and concept art more than final products themselves. Even comparing the sketch to the clean-up of the same drawing, people will prefer the sketch. Of course the pencil test is going to win the "appeal" debate.

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You missed the point of the image.

Why does making the characters look like they belong to the same world necessitate having the same fucking face?

No I didn't. It's 2D vs CG. Who the fuck said you had to use the exact same characters to prove the point.

Otherwise, what do you think is the point of the image? That 2D has more "soul"? That 2D is capable of more acting than CG?

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Are you actually that retarded that you couldn't bother looking up an image to prove your point?

In her design, and to sell as merchandise, did she ever have ears. They're covered by her ball band.

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By not comparing the same scene, weasels like you will say “oh the intent is different” and have an Apples/Oranges debate. Fuck that. The point is that traditional animation is more appealing and expressive and here is a DIRECT comparison to show you what you’re missing.

Literally looks like a Barbie doll with that giant head, long skinny neck, and sunken, frame-less shoulders.

Because when you draw a bunch of side characters who are only going to show up for brief moments in the movie, you typically don't dedicate a shit ton of design time to them.

For CG purposes: They have to rig all these models which is very time and money consuming.

For 2D purposes: They have to get the non-main character animators to bounce from character to character and it helps if they're all similar in design so they can get used to drawing them all on-model in a short period of time.

Both mediums do this. Quit acting like it's CG specific.

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let France take over the rest of the world. simple as that

Murder everyone who tolerates CGshit

>I'm objectively right that 2D is better because I don't like what you posted

Nah. Use actual terminology to explain why one is better than the other. Talk about stretch and squash, silhouette, believably, curves against straights. Do more than nothing.

that's not the same of a comparison between first sketch and final 2d animation, tho. Color especially adds a lot to the appeal. Lilo and stitch has a super nice color design

The Disney princesses are not “side characters” that “don’t deserve dedicated time”

That's not what his argument was, though. His personal appreciation doesn't enter into this.

No. I’m not arguing with a retard who doesn’t read my posts and just spits out a canned answer. I have no reason to argue with you.

They absolutely are side characters in WRECK IT RALPH 2. Did you not watch the movie? They have 15 - 18 minutes worth of screentime total.

Objectively, 2D is prettier.
This is actual terminology. The word "pretty" has a specific meaning, that applies to 2D more than it does to 3D.

This isn't something that needs to be proven, by the way, it's something everyone is fully aware of, and that only dishonest people deny.

But it is a demonstration how a sketch is usually more appealing to people.

>"Explain yourself."
>NO!!!!!

Lol.

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They are also cultural icons that represent the company. It would be like drawing Mickey like shit in Rodger Rabbit. Bad form.

>No rebuttal

Ah, so you're wrong. Got it.

Oh no, Disney designed their characters in a slightly different art style for another product. How insulting.

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Yes, actually.

>Stop motion is dead too and only done by some spoiled brat.
Studio Liaka I presume?

Look, they drew Mickey different from Fantasia. And Fantasia was different from Steamboat Willie. What a horrible crime.

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You had no argument to rebut.

The help of artificial inteligence so costs are minimal and that artist only have to draw the keyframes and the computer do the rest.
I'm studing cs just to work on that thing, I don't care if some steals this idea, I just want it to be real.

But everyone would get fired because Yea Forums is filled with pedophiles

Your strawmanning is really cringe, user.

please don't mention her in this thread

>"CG is not better or worse than 2D."
>YES IT ISSSSS REEEEE
>"Explain how."
>I DON'T HAVE TO

aka a guy incapable of explaining how because he literally knows jackshit about animation enough to refute me.

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I don't think that word means what you think it means.

08513801
>Unification of korean penninsula
After a glasnost-style collapse, the price of korean animation collapses as their labor market is flooded with third world tier NK refugees willing to draw our cartoons for bread.
>Streaming wars
Apple, Netflix, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Disney, ATT, Verizon, viacom all launch streaming services and burn massive amounts of money on a 2d animation pissing contest. Who can burn the most money the longest? Instead of quickly dying, investors urge companies to burn money in a very long battle.
>Japanese miracle
After talking to the christian god atop mount fuji, emperor naruhito tells the japanese people of the sins of their ways. All anime is banned on the island and the workaholic japanese nation shifts all its animation production into a walt disney style as christ intended.
>3D backlash
boomers on facebook pledge not to take their kids to any 3d animated films after a particularly egregious year of low quality. A facebook group issues stamps of approval for films each year and only those films make money. Despite the cost effective nature of 3d, the industry quickly shifts back to more traditional animation...until a very special 3d movie makes everyone violate their purity pledge and the bad times return.
>Xi Jinping Animation
2 billion chinese men are interned as part of a population control measure in forced labor camps drawing cartoons. After crushing their testicles, Premiere Xi works them to death animating his all female harem series "Xi Jinping Sex Fuck House Goodly".
>Fulfillment Slave drugs
The warlord Hefe de los Bezos spreads an addictive drug throughout Amexica, without receiving a daily dose the addicts die. He starts an animation studio to amuse himself with enormous mixed race asses in a road to el dorado style franchise.

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they fug

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See
You’re also making the mistake that you’ve only been talking to one person. I understand that you probably wasted your life learning 3D and feel offended that actual fans of the craft know it’s a pale imitation of real animation, but you should come to expect this opinion in circles like this. Enjoy being incorrect.

Movie could be 2D but it'd still be garbage. I don't know why people put any value at all into Frozen. It's a pretty mediocre movie.

See

Also see:

Looks right to me

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But I hate mudslaps

Nope, it's not right at all. Saying the Wreck It Ralph 2 versions of the Disney princesses "look like shit" and therefore is disrespectful to the characters is all based on your opinion. Objectively, they follow every rule of appeal that makes them good looking to general audiences, which is the point of a mass appeal toy line like the Disney Princesses.

Art you don't like is not objectively bad, so acting like it is and therefore a slap on the face of a fucking toy line is retarded.

i think the problem is it's the only animation style that releases in theaters and becomes successful. nobody would be complaining if 2d movies and stop motion movies were released and became successful more along with cgi.

OvO

But (Not sounding aggressive to you) who cares about what is released in theaters? Streaming is dominating the industry and there's a shit ton of 2D things I can find on multiple streaming services right now. And not even limited to America, a bunch of products worldwide from China, Japan, France, South America, even Mexico and Africa are gaining a 2D scene.

true, true

Based and Cindypilled

She's also best princess

>didn't get to watch any traditionally animated films in cinema growing up because I was born in a backwater town with no cinemas
>now can't watch any of them as an adult because they don't exist anymore

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Buy a widescreen TV with surround sound and pop in some 2D blu-rays (Not Disney those are shit ports). Who the fuck wants to go to a movie theater? They're overpriced as shit and the people there are obnoxious. I'd much rather make a steak dinner and sit on my own couch watching a movie.

Star Wars is fucking them over at least- not enough to really do anything to them mind you but it's fun to watch an arrogant megacorp like Disney squirm

was cinderella always such a bimbo?

To be perfectly honest, traditional animation to become the cheapest form.

traditional animators getting paid a living wage.

>Touch, sweet touch
>You've given me too much to feel
>Sweet touch
>You've almost convinced me I'm real

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All these nostalgiafags

Why haven't we ever seen 2D animation done by roughly animating in 3D and then tracing over that?

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That may be the best Snow White has ever looked.

I disagree, Peanuts was also creepy looking
The fucking detailed hair was gross, especially on chuck

I hate 3D trying to emulate 2D. Just give me fucking 2D instead of a try-hard copy.

The Captain Underpants movie looked good

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lol

CG does look uncanny valley but to be honest, most of the traditional animated features in my lifetime do too, to varying degrees. A lot of the problems in CG disney stuff was already present in traditional stuff, having the high detail and lighting just makes it more noticeable.

To be honest it seems like westerners just forgot how to make beautiful or cute stuff sometime in the mid 20th century.

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>comparing a big budget theatrical film to an episode of a TV cartoon
You're retarded.

It's not even an episode of a cartoon. It's someone's fan animation. It's literally designed to be bait.

I can shitpost, too.

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We did. It's basically just a form of rotoscoping.

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>That CG Snow White
My crazy senses are tingling

On the one hand, the top designs would never look good all together in the same movie. The bottom designs have most certainly lost the charm of the originals in the transition as well, but I can't help but notice that they are at least trying to keep features of their faces there. Snow White has a much rounder, chubbier face than the others, and Aurora's much sharper angles are still present in her face. Belle sure seems to still have those round cheeks with her strong chin there. The biggest let down is giving Cinderella ears, clearly someone wasn't paying attention when her model was made.

It wasn't rotoscoping after cinderella, it was live action reference, but not actually tracing the humans anymore, dumbass, disney actually had mastered proper human motion and joint structure.

by Peter Pan and AiWL, they already had perfected it.

>sister look really similiar
that's okay
>princesses from different courntries and different centuries look exactly the same
yeah no fuck this

Snow White is an improvement, the rest not.

Just to clarify, the cogs are CGI.
Ratigan was done by hand.

>Snow White is an improvement
Opinion discarded

Paper-man was basically an attempt at that.
It good for quick action scenes and props but I think works like Paper-man kind of miss that the appeal of traditional animation isn't just the art style, but more significantly the movement.
3D just doesn't move like 2D.

A sufficient amount of knives.

Why’d they turn them all Jewish?

The cogs are CGI and they used a method to have it traced onto paper.

youtu.be/JH9Rtt9Xde4?t=366

The amount of the whites of the eyes visible above the iris triggers some deep-seated fight-or-flight response in me. God.

>3D just doesn't move like 2D.
Pretty much anything can be done in 3D that can be done in 2D if you're willing to break the rigs and make new models to make it possible. The same thing with stop-motion.

It might not LOOK like 2D, but it can "move" like it.

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>always thought Belle was hot
>mfw a girl I was crushing on dressed as her for the school Halloween party once

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Y'all really want a Calarts 2D Disney movie? because that's what would happen if Disney made a 2D movie again

if it was animated well, sure

that's fucking impresive

In all fairness Nanoha is trash. t. /m/ user.

If everybody boycott 3D animation and demanded traditional. And it was enough people to actually hurt animation company's wallets.

Cindy’s ears are for nibbling on

>What would it take for traditional animation to make a comeback to mainstream?
Make 3D look 2D
Japan has mastered it already

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THERE WERE LITERALLY TWO MAINSTREAM 2D ANIMATED MOVIES THAT CAME OUT WITHIN THE PAST TWO YEARS BUT NONE OF YOU FUCKERS SAW THEM AND EVEN TALKING ABOUT ONE OF THEM IS A BANNABLE OFFENSE BECAUSE THE MODS ARE STILL ASSHURT OVER AN INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED NEARLY A DECADE AGO THAT YOU FUCKERS CAUSED.

YOU WANT MORE 2D ANIMATED MOVIES? THEN FUCKING WATCH 2D ANIMATED MOVIES.

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just needs softer edges and it will be perfect.

This

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Dragonball FighterZ is such a good game

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Saiyaman really makes me want to pick FighterZ back up.

Is the idea any different than what Paperman, Spiderverse, Captain Underpants do? Not disagreeing, but saying that I don't think Japan are the only ones who have mastered it.

How do I do this? How do I make a blender model look exactly like a 2d anime like this?

It was plenty good, it just cost a lot more than CG animation, hence the 3D booms all over the place.

On that note: It would require traditional animation to become more lucrative than 3D animation, which we're nearing thanks to technological advances. The other part of the equation is, of course, consumer interest which will likely not change too much for a bit.

Its called anime

Japan takes care to make it look exactly like the anime/manga, there's like a 3d ink effect made to look exactly like ink like on a drawn picture unlike all the examples you mentioned

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Don't make me post Berserk 2017 to prove a point
It's the animation industry on a global scale that's switching to more and more 3D use, not just the west.

See what I mean

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Post more Shiyoon

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indie studios

Yeah but japan is keeping the same look and feel ans style even with 3d while the west has completely abandoned it

I warned you. Thought I was joking, now you get the stick.

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more examples
youtube.com/watch?v=nb7cI2y7tEI
See how the inking is exactly like in anime and manga? See how the cell shading is exactly like in anime? See hoe the camera replicates 100% the anime? Western animation don't do this. Japan cares, the west does not

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Yep, clearly there are no instances anywhere that would prove contrary

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I liked Peanuts but the dot eyes in 3D looked like souless holes in close up.

Snow white is the only improvement

Now compare that with this

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only way I see it
>Disney goes bankrupt
>animation industry crashes into the ground
>streaming service wars end
>new studios form
first one's probably the one furthest into the future, but if things keep going like they've been this year, we might actually see that happen in our lifetimes

oh god, I want these things to die

I hope Arc System Works sets the standard for all future 3d games

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we had elements of that
Tarzan had the sliding elements done that way, but the most prominent example was Treasure Planet, which had 3 separate types of animation

>all robotics are flat-rendered 3D-CGI
>ship-backgrounds & more advanced backgrounds are 3D-CGI models that are traced over
>everything else is traditionally animated

You have no idea what I've been posting, do you?

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in order to make 3D move like 2D, you basically need to completely rewrite code for every effect you want to do

where was this when they did the Goku vs Frieza fight? the models in that were jarring as shit

>SJWs don't give a shit about Wreck-it Ralph
They did. They complained that the frog princess wasn't dark enough

See All the good 3D that user is sperging over is in use for games.
Not a single animated series or movie has used shaders or techniques similar to these yet.
I'm personally all for doing so, 'cause it does look good, but the whole problem is that is undoes the cheapness of making it look like these: It's a shame, honestly.

Arc System Works can do it, why can't you?

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I'm going to post more Guilty Gear gifs because it's fucking awesome what they did

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To be as easy as 3D

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Reminder that traditional animation without cels is thefuture. Traditional cel animation is dead.

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Anyone who says 3d can't animate like 2d has never played this game

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I've tried, but I suck at fighters.

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give it a try nonetheless

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$$$$$$$$$$ user
this kind of 3d ain't cheap at all

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Honestly, I always feel like I lose something of the vitality in the drawing/motion in the cleanup phase while I animate.

Tintin was great though.

traditional animation will never come back because as far as 2d animation goes, there are far better ways to animate even outside of non-computer assisted techniques
The work that went into Cinderella looks stunning, but it was actually not super advanced in terms of technique
Basically most cartoons were jury rigged together because people were trying to come up with the best and newest way to produce stunning animation

Frankly I never liked the overly stretchy cartoony stuff in hotel transylvania.

It's especially weird with mavis, because her character is drawn a lot more realistic than the others

>Loss of subpar dojinshi hentai leads to deeper philosophical study of sexuality, human carnal desires, a new renaissance of quality erotic drawings hitherto unimagined and the invention of technologies to finally slake human lust out of existence, which ushers in the gradual decline of human reproduction and eventual extinction.

Thanks Japan!

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It would have to be a passion project for some billionaire who knows that starting an animation studio centered around hand drawn animation would lose tons of cash.

What do you think of the animation of Guilty Gear Xrd?

Daily reminder this exists, it's entirely hand-drawn, and it's making tons of cash.

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Not aware of it.

These

Same studio that did

Can you elaborate?

I literally said that in the post, I am aware.

Auto-tweening software a toddler could use. 70% of each movie would be tweens and recycled animation cycles.

Spinning. It's upright.

Unless you're a preteen caucasian girl with dreams of being treated like royalty, you aren't the market for the Disney Princess franchise, guy. We see the flaws because we're not the target.

THANK you, I've been looking for that Ramlethal gif with the pointy teeth.

Stop mashing and actually try to learn. Games have tutorials these days.

Replying to more than 5 posts should be bannable.

>Auto-tweening software
Honestly I'm waiting for someone to feed the entire Disney animation archive into a deep learning algorithm for exactly that.
and then the viewcount farms use it to spam even more baby shark and finger family playlists.

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Anyone else hate this generic nu-Disney artstyle? It's so prevalent among online artists and probably more common than Calarts face.

for the last FUCKING time people!: These aren't trying to be faithful to the original designs! They are redesigns for that specific movie in that specific movie's very own art style! Wreck-it Ralph doesn't have quite the same style as Tangled or Frozen, let alone the old 2d films.

Why are americans obsessed with shitty redesigns that just look ugly and inferior instead of sticking with the actually beloved look that made people like your product in the first place?

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>it's another episode of people without an art degree thinking their opinions on character design are valid

learn to draw or learn to shut your useless faces

Well, I can't answer that because I'm not American. English is my third language

To have some kind of computer generated 2d animation, or a high end CAD software for animation.

To be fair it could come back in that mixed style from the spider verse movies.
And I wouldn't be mad at all.

The Japanese understand being true to the original, versus how every motherfucker in the us wanting to do things their way.

Can't wait for that

Not even trying to be colorful, we need to perfect automation for drawing.

They just look like this to fit the Wreck it Ralph style.

Educate us then.

look at how Sakurai rendered Krool and Banjo Kazooie in ultimate

Really? Yea Forums can't stop shilling for Nanoha.
I though it would be decent.

>You can only have a valid opinion if you have a degree in the topic being discussed

What an absolute faggot.

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I'm an art student getting an art degree and I pretty much agree with their opinions.

Art student user again. I just figured out that maybe they look the same because it's intentional? Like they're presenting princesses as a one-dimensional thing

Money and public interest.

When it comes to things like design laymen can also very easily tell when something is wrong, even if they cannot articulate it in the same way that professional can.

Money.

Oh, you sweet little baby. Get out of here and never return.

No.

That's a strong reaction.

>all of Yea Forums getting hired by disney
>caring about animation
Where the fuck do you think we are? This is Yea Forums, not Into to the history of animation.

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I’ve been here since art school and I’m still rotting away here. Just looking out for my brethren.

>instead of sticking with the actually beloved look that made people like your product in the first place
Bad example, stop putting japs on a pedestal

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>Only a chef can taste bad food.
What a faggot.

Food
Analogy.

It did with Sponge Out of Water but people were too focused on the CGI segments that were literally only the last 20 minutes

>Using the Soul Souless argument

Souless Japan is still better than the west

>stop putting japs on a pedestal
why is Yea Forums allowed this level of shitposting
. i dont think ive seen a single argument of east vs west that wasnt cherry picked or full of miss information. for example. anything for gokufighterz (since more than half the roster is goku clones which people seems to be sheepingly okay with) is capped off at low frame rates and uses stupid amounts of colorful effects to hide it. the super shading for that to work is the camera angle cant change at all. cgi for japs is horrid in almost all given examples. people were shitting on jap cgi for years, it hasnt gotten better but people are now defending it? same type of garbage eating as bethesda and disney drones.

this level of lazy garbage doesn't even stop at cgi.
pic related was the highest rated most watched thing of last season and it was nothing but banded garbage with screen flashing, panning shoots of still images and powerpoint animation inbetween

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Man, before super saiyan the designs were so good. After it just became huge blocks sticking out of peoples bodies and those were their muscles.

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Traditional 2D animation being easier to produce

Snow White actually looks her age now; the rest look too young.

They're supposed to be simplified; it's just fucking Wreck-it Ralph it doesn't matter.

They fucking nailed 3D for a PS2 game, though it really starts to show when a cutscene is using HQ models to show how expressional the characters are. KH2 ended up giving HQ models more screen time compared to KH1.

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Only pseudo-intellectual dorks think there is anything wrong with food analogies. In fact they're the perfect analogies because they're so clearly conveyed and understood by everyone.

KH2's in-game cutscenes are crazy good for their time.

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Whut?

>>growth of a medium

It’s a different fucking medium, brainlet.

>They want some thing that look real.

Then they should stop calling it animation altogether.

Cartoonier movements are closer, though I'd argue is still less snappy, but more naturalistic movements in CGI is still more floaty.

Thank you for putting into words something I felt for almost a decade now

>it's another episode of "art school faggot clings to retarded elitism and lashes out at people who didn't waste money on a worthless degree for skills they could have learned on their own for basically free"

OPM S2 animation was bad, but I thought that specific example was censoring, not laziness, correct me if I'm wrong

Disney actually promoting the film instead of half ass-ing the promo for it.

The only thing this thread taught me is that Yea Forums is apparently the only hope left for animation.

They didn't play at my local theater, I would've gone otherwise (to TTGo)

So appearently there's a new group of Maidens of Light. We know that Kairi is o of that grouo but not Rapunzel, Elsa or Anna.
Any guesses on who are the rest of Maidens?

You're acting like if Beanface wasn't way worse

>comparing 4-5 items per year verse 20 items every 4 months mostly composed of "set of highschool girls doing x" or "person is trapped in a fantasy mystic and knifes rpg world"
the only good thing about beanface is there are people that dont like beanface.meanwhile faggots eat ayylmao designs without a 2nd thought and ask for seconds.

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>What would it take
That 2D becomes cheaper than 3D which will never happen.
Investors are weird when it comes to returns on investment. Investors will view a small investment turning 2-3x their investment a success. However on larger investments they expect 5x and up on investment. This I believe has to do with larger investments tying up more of their funds that they could have used in other investments, but the more they invest the higher their expectations that the profit will be many times more than a cheaper film in ratio to production.

As bad as beanface is, it allows for a ridiculous variation in actions performed by the characters and the situations they find themselves in, you'll see a beanface character jump around, hand upside down, shake like crazy, crawl through tight spaces, play instruments, fly, stretch, compress, transform etc. Meanwhile anime sameface characters only stand, talk, run, fight, and do suggestive body language, they're like porcelain figures when it comes to expressiveness.

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Is this from some artbook? Do you have more?

Am I the only one who thinks the CG ones look all right? They're all in the same style given that they are all in one movie, but they don't look the same and distinctive facial features of the originals are preserved.

People just love 2d more because it FEELS like more effort is put into it because you draw a million pictures. It's the same reason why people think a classic meal is more dignified than a bbq.

The problem is that CG is complex as shit with all that rigging. Yes you're using the same model, but trying to understand that shit takes more patience than just drawing frame by frame. Even keyframe animation takes some more patience than traditional.

I think 2d is the best medium of animation but I'm not gonna sit here and say CG isn't incredible in whatever ways people can do with it

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Amazing how you made a whole post about nothing
A talent, really

They look ok considering the fact that they were trying to match the style of the other WiR designs. I don’t think they’re great but they’re not awful

I just explained that people "Feel" 2d is superior because it feels more dignified cause you're drawing with hands and not with computers.

What do you want me to say?

Ah yes, the good old "moderate opinions are worthless" meme.
Remember kids, if you're not always angry about something, not constantly trying a race war against Them trying to destroy You, it means your life is worthless.
God forbid that you even consider understanding or liking more than one thing!

>2d animation gets progressively worse over time until it's replaced by visibly superior 3d
Oh. Well, ok then.

jewish girls are hotter han non jewish girls
I unironically have always liked girls with big noses
bonus point of she has a lisp

There is some princesses missing from that artwork.

It'll happen when you faggots stop throwing money at mousney for 3D pasty plastic cgi crap movies and vote with your wallets not to support the industry until they get their shit right.

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jokes on you. I watch everything on pirate streaming sites since ages.

Who's missing? It's the 12 official princesses plus Elsa and Anna. Disney did have other princess and princess-like characters in their movies, but those aren't part of the merch line and don't count.

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Why did they make casual Anna and Merida so similar

I swear, at least the architecture students don't gloat about their terrible taste in front of the normals.

If it helps, they had roughly the same budget.

Animation has never been more complacent

Kida

>Using her feet to read
Unf. Makes you wonder what else she can do with her feet.

Funnily enough anime. All the big animation studios in the west have given up on traditional animation so the only chance is for anime to keep growing in popularity in the west until a film gets wide release here and does really well at the box office. This probably won't happen until this generation of weebs start to have kids though.

Those both look fucking atrocious.

To answer the question though: That's never going to happen. This incredibly generic, blobby 3D shit is way, way too fast and cheap.

Sofía and Elena are valid the same way Vanellope is.

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Communism

>Those both look fucking atrocious.

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The "hold on" from the guy is sold very well. Am I not supposed to prefer the final work? Hard to compare dialogue scenes when the incomplete one only has half of the characters moving.

That's not a storyboard. What kind of storyboard has that many fucking frames?

That's a "pencil test". It's the animators using test-dialouge in 2D. It's for them to experiment with how certain characters behave and move, before animating anything in 3D.

see

I don't really care for disney in general but what irritates the most with the CGI is how sameface everything is. Wreck it Ralph to Big Hero 6 to Moana to whatever, they all have the exact same giant eyes and chubby potato face. Pixar or Disney I know it's possible to have CGI that has different styles. They just don't bother to do it. And I don't buy because since the 2000s and Ratatouille at the earliest. It's not "Oh they are from the same era" it's that they are using the same cookie-cutter streamlined processes to fart this shit out.

I am surprised they haven't bought a major game developer yet. It's a market they only have access to with licensing. I am not sure who they'd buy

>Captain Underpants
>Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs
>How to Train Your Dragon
>Hotel Transylvania
>Madagascar
>The Incredibles
>Megamind
>Book of Life
>Rango

>All the same

There's a popular style, but it's not the only style. Disney style was also popular back in the 90's and people tried to copy them. It's the same thing now-a-days except with CG and Disney/Pixar style. This comes across more to me that everyone tries to scream "CalArts" because a character has a bean face.

Jasmine, Belle, and Ariel have similar faces the same way Moana, Elsa, and Rapunzel do. But nobody seems to care when I point that out.

The Mouse Approach to games is to form your own company, make games with it, and as soon as those games fail to return profit, you kill that company and try again sometime later.

>distinctive facial features of the originals are preserved
Not really

All it needs is one thing that's extremely popular and timely. Just look at what The Simpsons did for adult animated comedy. Sure they had an explicit de-emphasis on animation, but the point is animated adult comedies were an absurd notion before and now they're one of the primary pillars of animation.

general parts of their faces are kept there, Snow White is chubby, Aurora is angular, so on. It's pretty much about the best you can hope for when converting so many different designs into a homogeneous one that is so wildly different from the old ones.

personally speaking, I'd rather have kids watching stuff that promotes christian ideals rather than the stuff promoting the gay agenda like we've been having
i'd rather not represent a community known for public indecency, heavy drug use, high std rates, and a larger percentage of domestic abuse

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Because they don’t.

>Yea Forums cares about animation
>Prases shit like Star Vs. and Steven Universe

>art degree
Someobdy post the image.
You know which one.

That drawing of her switching pages with her feet has super fucked up proportions/depth, knowing that even someone as successful as Shiyoon can "fuck up" if not paying attention makes me feel better about myself, I always assume these things come natural when you're at that skill level, whereas I always have to be super focused and put in a ton of effort to draw anything worthwhile.

They do have similar faces. Just like how Rapunzel's and Moana's faces are similar. Even though I could just as easily point out slight differences in the eyes, nose, skull shape just like with Belle, Jasmine, Ariel, people won't acknowledge the CG nuances but will totally think the three 2D princesses are different. Go ahead and post those three and see.

>Casual Raps
>wearing shoes

That Mickey design sucks balls and you know it

The eyes are all wrong and the head looks lumpy...classic B&W Mickey looked friendly. This one looks like a bootleg

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Looks no different than he used to. People bitch too much. This is one of the better redesigns now.

I'm personally not a big fan of this redesign
I think the shorts are better than the sum of their parts though

>Looks no different than he used to

I like the design, but it's clearly different from other versions of Mickey. Otherwise you might as well say Mickey has never changed at all.

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because nobody let's their final products be so bouncy.

Weird to see what happened to his eyes. Looks like all the modern ones carry the mistake from the middle entry.

What mistake? You mean giving him smaller eyes?

Yes they do.

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For all computer technology to stop working.

Ill never understand why this has a 48% RT score. I fucking ADORED this movie

Mistaking his pupils for eyes.

Anime was a mistake.

All that is true.

To be fair that's mostly the LN market. The ones that draw the illustrations of the LN's are the same people and the adaptations use the same character design, it's different from manga adaptations or original anime.

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I don't think it's easy, I think it looks bad despite the effort

Netflix. I'm not joking. Netflix movies have the production value of theatrical films, and they get to be experimental because they're delivered into millions of households.

In other words, it's the definition of diminishing returns. The smaller, the bigger, the bigger, the smaller. There comes a point the best result is the middle man.

Animation mediums ordered by difficulty:
Stop motion>Traditional 2D animation>3D animation>>>>>>Digital 2D animation

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This. I realized this, both are hard and takes actual mastery to get good at it. It's REALLY technical to get a fucking model's mesh to work 100% with the "skeleton" underneath, and people (like myself) overlook how problematic it is.

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This is like crying about Toei or Trigger having their style of art used in all of their animes. Or Toriyama for games and DBZ, for a bigger example.

well I mean its more about getting the idea out rather than paying attention

>only culinarily elitist pseuds think there is anything wrong with fast food. In fact, it's the perfect food because its so easily acquired, anyone can eat it.

More?

They were already doing that before Mickey went to color.

It looks like flashshit

Burden of proof is you

>Burden of proof
AKA you're lazy.

All 2D princesses are very similar but with slight eyes, nose, lips differences. The same sentiment with 3D princesses. People acting like this is some new thing that only happened when CG became a thing are fooling themselves.

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what do you base this list on? I'd like a more detailed explanation.

The original designs aren't all that great.

>The road to el dorado will get a 3D or live action remake in your lifetime.

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Was Road to El Dorado even popular enough to warrant a remake?

Do you think that matters? Hollywood needs money and they seem to have run out of ideas.

They're copy paste formulaic. The old princesses follow an attractive face model but with obvious variations. NuDisney does an effective formula for cute (huge eyes, button noise, small soft features) which is the same design that makes a kitten cute. The things that make them different like Snow White's fuller cheeks, and Rapunzel's cheekbones, are nearly neutered. They look young, since there characters are supposed to be, but they're definite cartoons compared to the original princess that actually emulate real women.

Oh jeez. She doesn't have ears. Crazy.

her hair could be simplified. aka she has ears, but they're being covered by hair.

This plus another sudden jump in display resolution. They can barely afford 4K graphics and they're the richest media company in history.

>Take from the rich to give to the rich then get holodomored
Already done that Sergei. Stop listening to Engels' neet pet.

Because KoF13 killed SNK.

>The only reason 3D is cheaper than 2D is you only need to make the models once
>lol just make more models to replicate squash/stretch and blurs
Being disingenuous or ignorant at this point.

it's not going to happen.
3D animation and digital 2D animation are both far cheaper, less labor-intensive, and way more stylistically consistent.
Both styles are still in their infancy, but given time they will develop to the point that, artistically, they will stand up to or even outshine the best traditionally animated movies and shows.

I can't believe I read this entire fucking thread in a night.

Develop some sort of software that produces old school animation faster/more cheaply than 3d. Which is probably somewhere round the corner with all this fancy machine learning development going on.

In the PC culture of 2019, we may see interracial threesomes and gay sex.
Hollywood please make this happen.

Characters are more than their faces.

Japan has the best character design in the world and its extremely varied. One blatant copycat does not disprove this.

That studio does not produce any anime. Other studios were making "deep" anime at the time and have continued making it to this day. He is only speaking on his own behalf. We have gone over this countless times yet you still keep posting this.

> 20 items every 4 months mostly composed of "set of highschool girls doing x" or "person is trapped in a fantasy mystic and knifes rpg world"
Meme. You have no idea what anime is actually airing. And the seasons aren't even four months long.

>Meanwhile anime sameface characters only stand, talk, run, fight, and do suggestive body language, they're like porcelain figures when it comes to expressiveness.
Sure, if your knowledge of anime is based on half-remembered episodes of DBZ.

Am I the only one who thinks Cinderella’s ears are hot as fuck?

>Sure, if your knowledge of anime is based on half-remembered episodes of DBZ.
I meant no disrespect to anime, but you can't deny that their method is more story and character-focused, and animation is just a tool to deliver those methods, as opposed to the west which has a long history of purely animation-driven comedy and media in general.

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Pretty much every major animated release this year has been underperforming/bombing at the box office.

>Lego Movie 2 underperformed
>Missing Link bombed because Laika
>Uglydolls bombed for shit marketing/releasing literally after Endgame
>The Secret Life of Pets 2 bombed
>Toy Story 4 is doing alright

There's lots of animation in anime that's done for its own sake and isn't necessary for conveying the story, or is far in excess of what would be necessary. And there's basically no sakuga culture in America.

I haven’t seen the Peanuts movie, but judging from the screenshot the direction is rather interesting. In film there’s a concept called theatre land in which the characters would be standing in a straight line respective to each other and parallel to the background kinda like a stage play, I recall one of my lecturers getting super anal about that. Is the whole movie shot in this manner? Say what you will about the artstyle but the direction looks completely lifted off of the comics which is pretty cute

I SAID DON'T BRING HER INTO THIS THREAD!

>animation in anime that's done for its own sake
>sakuga culture in America

That's just the basic cartoon look. It's everywhere.

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What are you trying to say?

Secret life of pets 2 didn’t bomb, it made 260 million against an 80 million budget

is 10 seconds of animation every 5 eps where the rest is just powerpoint animation worth defending?
>but madhouse and bones
its not the majority

>is 10 seconds of animation every 5 eps where the rest is just powerpoint animation worth defending?
This is a myth and not what anime is actually like.

Thats true, theatre land is often used in cartoons because le budget and le laziness, but that’s generally used for scenes in which characters are standing still and talking (goddamit Seth McFarlane). Lots of 2D shows make use of all kinds of angles though. I was pondering on the idea of a 3D animated movie deliberated being directed in that particular front-on manner, the idea just appeals to me especially for a movie based on a strip

>not what anime is actually like.

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That's what I said.

Auroa made the transition nicely at least

It's important to keep in mind that this was directed by an experienced 2D animator.

Even Disney's expensive movies frequently used those shots. They're ingrained into American (2D) animation.

Whoever designed casual Mulan and whoever made her model deserve a raise.

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Simple:

Buy an anime studio, and have them make 2D animation for Disney.

Why not have Disney buy Studio Trigger? Trigger's done some work for Disney with Toy Story. Why not just have The Mouse absorb Trigger as Disney's official anime studio?

Hell, who doesn't want Little Witch Academia in Kingdom Hearts?

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It's very unlikely that anyone would want to be Disney's outsourcing farm, and Japanese animators don't make Disney type animation.

Trigger's works like LWA is VERY Disney brah.

And plus, they did work for a Toy Story side movie and some Marvel work. Why wouldn't they continue doing Disney shit?

It's nothing like Disney, and why would they want to be Disney's outsourcing farm instead of making their own stuff?

>instead of making their own stuff?

Because Trigger doesn't have the money for that?

For stuff like Promare to happen, they have to make garbage like Darling in the Franxx which was a huge flop sales-wise.

Almost every single thing they've made has been original, including FranXX. Which averaged 4,749 sales, making it not a flop.

Her design was on point in general.

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Bump

Where in my post did I ever mention the cost of 2D to 3D? Or did you quote the wrong guy?

>Trigger's works like LWA is VERY Disney brah.
Kek. Just because that show has western styled squash and stretch, does not mean it's Disney styled. It's far from it.

Man normies on Facebook HATE this

That's what's done in the DragonBall Super Broly movie.
Most people think it's one of the greatest animaged films of all time but it was mostly done 3D then rendered and traced to look 2D.

Do you have a source for that?

I'm looking at this on sakugabooru and it doesn't look traced at all, and it would be useless extra work to make it 3D first.

sakugabooru.com/post/show/75550

You can see her ears in this fucking scene, you ding dong

If only Laika could hire some competent writers.

Trigger is the exact opposite of Disney. Disney animation is slow and methodical. Trigger animation is flashy and stylized. Trigger will have dramatic jumps in their pose-to-pose work while Disney is obsessed with making sure everything is inbetweened so you read every pose.

>those 2D
>similar at all
>have to resort to different races for 3D and they are STILL sameface
Back to sweetie

>I'm gonna pretend to be blind to win an argument

I would argue a lot of that is to do with the loss of varied line widths (At least in this example). In the sketch there's an obvious shape laid out in the darker/thicker lines, with details receding with lighter/thinner lines. When you do it all the same width it ends up looking flat.

Makes me sad that most people use colour to make things stand out in their animations and comics rather than line width and big chunky shadows.

I've already argued this half a dozen times on Yea Forums & Yea Forums, just scroll through the thread before gomez starts shitting it up.

boards.fireden.net/v/thread/465482026/

Newer designs are trying too hard to make them look cute rather than have them be naturally cute. Everything on the bottom is what I'd expect those faggots who make threads along the lines of WHY DIDN'T YOU SEE HER MOVIE YET GUYS to flock towards.

>the industry isnt filled with pedos
lmfao at ur life.

Yeah I'm not seeing it. Looks hand-drawn to me. The clips on sakugabooru also don't look like they would have come from tracing. Are you just assuming that because it looks difficult it must have been done with computers?

Some are traditionally animated, the loose looking animation like the above booru post, but there are still portions where 3D models come to assist for references.

You're not seeing it because you don't know how to draw and can't read it with your third eye.

Maybe there are some places where they did use 3D models, but I've not seen examples of that. My ability or inability to draw has no relation to this.

A big reason for uniform lines is because it's easier to pass around a team and to digitally ink when the line is the same width. With thick and thin, you run the risk of shimmering lines.

I like it, too, but I've also tried to clean up animations like that and you do run into a lot of "I inked this finger with a thick line, so I have to keep doing that otherwise it'll shimmer if it goes between thick and thin and pop".

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Being able to draw sufficiently is very important to being able to read how it was done.
You can't make the connection between this rig in the software they use in-house, to the pretty looking 2D 'drawing' they render to.

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>this doesnt count

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It's not necessary. You're just saying this because you have no arguments. May as well claim people can't tell something is CG unless they have experience with CG, or can't tell something is green screened if they've never green screened things, or can't tell a background painting is based on a photo unless they've done background paintings. And so on.

People will say it doesn't count because it's trying to emulate stop-motion. Because I guess when it comes to these conversations, stop-motion is a valid form of animation but not CG. I'd like to think that by that logic, only 2D animation done on cells is valid and no digital work at all, not even if it's just used for clean-up, but then people would have no modern day examples to use.

>cartoon is made entirely in 3D
>uses machine learning to look like 2D animation

How would you feel about this? The aesthetic would make a comeback, but the technique would still be dead.

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I love how in a lot of scenes, they try to make it look like the Lego are stop-motion.

What would be the bust sizes for:

Cinderella
Snow White
Aurora
Ariel
Belle
Jasmine
Pocahontas
Elsa
Anna
Tiana
Moana
Rapunzel
Mulan

You're right, I'm not arguing with you because as I said I've been through this several times on shittier boards that only post el hermano spam and porn.

The truth isn't important if you're not interesting in even looking for it yourself.
Some if DBS Broly is animated tradtionally, some if it pure CG, but big portions of it are animated in 3D then either traced over and cleaned up or just touched up in post since it's already on model.

A 3D ragdoll being moved around on keys still mystifies you.

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It's not really what you're asking, but there is that auto-color tool that does some really cool shit when you throw in clean animation.

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its almost embarrassing how far in quality wb and sony are ahead of disney.

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Disney still has some of the best fur, water, and clothing simulation tech out there. I just wish people were allowed to share their work between studios instead of harboring techniques. Did 2D days used to do that? Like, would Fleischer build a rotoscope machine and then refuse to tell any of the other studios? I don't know how info sharing worked in the days prior to 9 Old Men making a book.

>The truth isn't important if you're not interesting in even looking for it yourself.
I looked at your screenshots. I looked at sakugabooru. I don't see the 3D animation you think is there.

>A 3D ragdoll being moved around on keys still mystifies you.
Show me where I ever said or implied that the idea mystifies me. I know for a fact that anime has used 3D renders to guide the 2D animation. ufotable has done it several times and they've made videos about it. But they didn't make fully detailed 3D models and animations, they just made rough guidelines.

realism doesnt matter for an already cartoon movie. at some point it becomes distracting like good big dinosaur or something like that.
>2D days used to do that
smear animation is as old but only a rare amount of people bother to apply it to 3d works which is a damn shame.
youtu.be/Ala8dGr1soU
hell you dont see it much in current 2d shows, the popular ones atleast, anymore. everyone is so adjusted to toonboom and everything looks like lazy ass flash stuff.

It's mainstream everywhere but the US.

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china got good stuff but no one will ever talk about it
youtu.be/SbdIc4TwVtA

GKIDS is releasing White Snake so we'll hear about that one.
The sooner China starts making its own animation instead of inflating American box office numbers, the better.
There's some surprisingly interesting stuff over there. Even some indy/underground animation.
youtube.com/watch?v=8wr0BkayM_o

I don't think Chinese animation will ever amount to much. Their society is too repressive.

A new studio to make it and profit significantly.
Laika does respectable numbers with the stop motion but 2d doesn't have a place like that.

>realism doesnt matter for an already cartoon movie.

And yet, Disney still referenced a shit ton of realism to the point of rotoscoping live-action footage for Snow White and Cinderella. Disney has always been about using elements of realism on top of their cartoon work. They're not making Looney Tunes over there.

We would fit right in.

JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESUUUUUUUUUS!!!

I'd take this over that

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Too become cheaper and easier.

dont forget the ones who dont follow the same cartoony facial structure.

Pocahontas, esmeralda, Jane.....

To be realistic, it will be probably be digitally done in some ways to lower cost since am gonna be frank, tradtional mediums cost a fuck ton of money. No amount of tax cuts are gonna fix it.

Man, it would be so cool if Disney decided to make CGI remakes on old films instead of those shitty soulless Live action atrocities.

Am Jsut as sick of it. Shame I can't think of any other appealing art style besides some manga and anime.

>Lead 2D animator gets sick
>Risk the animation suffering big drop in quality and loss of income
>Lead 3D animator gets sick
>nameless koreans/pajeets finish his work
3D won't come back into production because the target is 45 seconds of animation at a local 3D studio. You can't do 45 seconds a week of 2D animation of the same calibur (low tier).

CGI is even more expensive, the only reason it's being made over 2D is because it actually makes the money back i.e. mainstream audiences have shit taste.

A serious answer to the question would be for rendering computers to become prohibitively expensive even for a Disney production. So a big tech crash would have to occur.
Since literally trillions of man-hours go into the word rendering farms do, a reevaluation of costs (especially considering unions) and retraining of a new generation of key animators would be necessary.

Broly looked incredible when it was 2D, but the 3d parts were awful, so close though

Either:
>Someone takes a huge risk on a traditional animation passion project and makes a ton of money doing it, inspiring copycats.
or
>Modern movies become so CGI that computer animated flicks seem like the exact same thing so traditional animated movies are made to differentiate from them

>Someone takes a huge risk on a traditional animation passion project and makes a ton of money doing it, inspiring copycats.
Spider-Verse could've done this, the amount of manual work that went into it could've easily been used for two traditionally animated movies

>That 2D becomes cheaper than 3D which will never happen.
2d is cheaper you moron.

>no eilonwy or maid marianne

I'm comparing 2D princess movies that all came out one after the other with CG equivalents. Hunchback, Pochahontas, and Tarzan were all after Aladdin, Little Mermaid, and Beauty and the Beast. Except for Rescuers sequel which was thrown in the middle of them, those three movies came out one after the other. And we only have three CG princess movies to compare to right now. It's an apt comparison.

Now, if Disney released five more princess movies in the next 10+ years and they still all have similar faces, then yes, they put a lot more work into their 2D designs than CG. But right now, it's early stages of Renaissance vs. early stages of Renaissance.

I mean, if we're just talking girl characters, I could throw in Vanellope who looks different from the atypical Disney heroine face.

No it's not. They can actually equal the same budget.

A low-budget CG like Dreamworks' 2017 Captain Underpants: $38 mil.
Low-budget 2D 2011 Winnie the Pooh: $30 mil.

Taking into account inflation, they would roughly have the same budget give or take a million.

Think about Emperor's New Groove in 2000 where the entire movie was redone: $100 million
Now consider Zootopia which had similar development hell stage released in 2016: $150 million

Again, consider inflation, they are similar sized budgets. People who try to push the narrative as 2D or CG being cheaper than the other is a total farce. This is of course only talking about big studio Hollywood productions and not indie studios or overseas studios who are capable of making theatrical quality films on $5 - $10 mil budgets. Those are usually passion or grant-funded projects.

It's the sanpaku eyes

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Does this even apply to non-asians, though?

Thank you for this whitepill. Is there any website where people can find updates on animated foreign films?

Is there one of these for 2010 through 2014?

Festivals and/or awards are a good way to learn about what's upcoming or brand new.
I recommend Annecy if you want a good general sampler of stuff around the world.
The Emile Awards and the Quirino Awards are both great for Europe and South America, respectively
A few others are:
>animationeurope.com/ (Europe) though it doesn't update very often
>squidmag.ink/ (Africa) This one is general entertainment but a great spot to find out what's new.

I did that chart, so I haven't done one for that decade yet.
I mean, I can always make one.

Who is the brunette between Wendy and Jane?

itt: Yea Forumstards discover shaders

>I did that chart, so I haven't done one for that decade yet.
>I mean, I can always make one.

Oh, take your time if you plan to make one. I was just curious to know if it existed, since starting at 2015 seemed arbitrary.

>Lego Movie 2 underperformed
>underperformed
it was the third movie in a franchise and was a profoundly weaker than it's predecessors and it literally only did mildly less stellar than the previous 2 films
>Missing Link bombed because Laika
They tried something a lot different than their usual fair and it didn't go well, not to mention Laika isn't a name that floods theatres too often in the first place.
>Uglydolls
was a cheaply made ad for their toys and was never made with the intention of being a blockbuster
>The Secret Life of Pets 2 bombed
It simply did not
>Toy Story 4 is doing alright
Why mention this then, also it's going to make 600 million, a lot better than alright
>HTTYD3
making 520 million

Why are you doom-saying over literally nothing. Literally 1 big movie did worse than expected and you're calling it a crash. How retarded do you have to be?

>Low-budget 2D 2011 Winnie the Pooh: $30 mil.
That wasn't a low budget film. And more importantly, your entire argument here fails to account for the fact that animation isn't the only cost involved in these films.
3D animation simply involves more unavoidable cost than 2D animation, certain (and in extreme cases, all) technological cost can be entirely ignored in a still efficient 2D workflow and that's simply not true for 3D animation

Studios poached animators from eachother all the time, which meant not only did a lot of them work together at some point in their careers and learn while working, but you can't patent or trademark something like "draw the important parts of the motion, then draw the connecting parts inbetween after." So once people learned certain techniques either from each other directly or through consuming other's work there were almost no barriers to them replicating and refining the things they learned

There's just a huge barrier when you look at the way a CG studio does subsurface scattering and hair physics and replicating that requires not only an incredibly amount of time but an incredible workload and you don't just take it with you when you go

$30 mil for a theatrical film produced by a big studio whose average budget is $100+ mil is absolutely low-budget for them.

Just like how $5 mil for an independent film is high-budget but practically no budget for a Hollywood movie, everything is relative.

>3D animation simply involves more unavoidable cost than 2D animation
You can make the argument that CG actually costs less-per-staff because CG animators do not have unions, allowing studios to hire more in comparison to 2D animators who not only have union wages but have increased pay for consecutive years worked.

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>Those are usually passion or grant-funded projects.
Japanese animators get paid less than minimum wage, something like $3-$6 an hour. Wages are even worse in Korea and China.

CGI is cheaper for large studios at this point as they usually just modify existing assets. You'll even find youtube videos for how many films you can find the same assets like furniture etc. After a studio has a large number of CGI assets in their library it becomes cheaper.

You can make the argument that Disney had done that for years with recycling old animations. However the animation staff said that was a horrible practice and it would have been cheaper to just animate something new.

Disney today pisses away money like no other point in history. For Moana they sent the animators and storyboard to Hawaii for almost a year, put them up in high accommodations, and had them take cultural classes. The cost of having one person stay in Hawaii for a month at a good hotel not counting food or the classes would be $14k a month per person. I believe there was somewhere around 60 people that they sent out there which would be in the ball park of $840k a month. Lets say they were there for 8 months and that's $6,720,000 just for them to sleep. Even though they own the hotel that is still millions they were just pissing away for the sake of a cgi movie.

In Walt's day he would bring in a bunch of flea infested animals and tell his guys to fucking draw it, and we got bambi.

Make computers be able to make pencil sketches.
That's the only way at this point. The infrastructure that made the picture on the right is gone or so prohibitively expensive as to not be worth it for the audience it is targeting.
Fucker beat me to it

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Can't tell if you're baiting or if you're actually a 14 year old on this website trying to look smart, but you know a lot of these movies don't work like Fighterz, right? Fighterz was able to accurate represent the style people most associate with DBZ because the games restricted to a 2D plane, and special care is taken when character are shown at certain angles in the intro and outro cutscenes. If you turn the camera on that shot there the model will look really fucked up because of how they altered the model for that single shot. Granted, a lot of these CG movies break model's skeletons/rigs to do fun stuff with perspective, expression and general posing, but it isn't as exact as Fighterz has to be for what it is.

>2d is cheaper you moron.
A simple google search will tell you that CGI is cheaper retard

I'm like, 99% sure they do those overseas trips for a "morale booster" moreso than actual R&D. It always comes across to me as a way to build a big studio's reputation for aspiring artists to want to work there while also encouraging current employees not to rock the boat because they want to keep working there. It's just a theory, but I always think back to how people talk about Disney and Pixar and what a great place it is to work there because they get to do this cool luxury thing or that and it comes across as corporate loyalty. Especially when you consider how ridiculously restrictive those contracts are.

It doesn't matter which is cheaper; all that matters is how much time is spend on the product, as more time spend means the budget goes up.

whats her face from Pirates of the Caribbean

when some studio out there manages to make a billion dollars with a 2d animated movie
then everyone would scramble to jump on board

hell no. I don't know why but she looks way cuter with monkey ears

bottom row is unironically hotter

>diminishing returns
Pretty much, like look at Toy Story 4. It had a 200 million dollar budget, and has made 600 million world wide so far. Despite making 3x it's investment it's being viewed as a box office flop by the media. The investors felt that it should have made domestic what it made worldwide, and felt that worldwide should have put it at over 1 billion. So really it does fit well into my view of larger investments needing to hit 5x or more to be viewed successful.

Frozen has really spoiled their expectations. It had a budget of 150 million and made 1.2 billion back. Moana was 150 and only made 643 million, and Toy Story is probably going to cap around 700 million. So there is something going on where investors believe that every film is going to have the return of Frozen, and are getting pissy that it's Three Fourths to a Half of what they were expecting.

For Disney to make another 2D movie based on one of their billion franchises they own. It's still consistently made in Europe and Japan, if traditional means hand drawn frame-by-frame stuff, that is. Most people here don't think much of the lack of it (non-artist or animator types and those with no interest in animation that go to see Pixar films) and while it'd be refreshing to see some new stuff from the US, great strides have been made in CG productions regarding visuals. I don't mind this current era of CG animated features so long as they look great. Spiderverse is monumental and we can only hope it has a lasting influence on future films. Sony's Hotel Transylvania stuff looks great too, if they can ditch the motion blur they smear all over everything it'll be pushed even further. Captain Underpants, The Peanuts, The Lego Movie: there's a lot of interesting stuff these movies can pull off and it'll be a while until it gets boring.

That being said if you want 2D you've got options. Japan churns out anime like nothing else, Europe actually gives a shit about the arts and animation and regularly puts great looking stuff yearly as well. Independent animation exists in the US and thrives on the internet. Once in a blue moon you'll get a cartoon that looks good but they're few and far between. From the few episodes of TMNT I've seen it's probably the best looking thing airing currently.

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It takes longer to produce 2D than CGI. If you want to change a scene in a CGI film it's possible with some work ie Sonic looked like trash so they're going to try and fix it. With 2D that wouldn't have happened, there would be no salvaging that. Even in a full 2D feature it is a huge amount of work to change a single scene. When Shrek was being made they literally were putting in new shit months before it went out.

>rather than line width and big chunky shadows.
Line weight adds more time to keep consistent and is usually best used for just one uniformed outline instead (see PPG)
Shadows however look like shit with color. Try it yourself. It's a common artist rule to NOT use absolute black to shade anything, ever. It looks soulless (not meming here) and lacks that warmth you get from the blood underneath the skin.

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>sorrowful piano and brass being playing.
For some reason I'd love a sort of weird animated rock opera based on that Daft Punk song..

imagine KOF 15 done in their style

no, people here are far too bitter and cynical to work together

>all these assblasted weebs and nuDisney cultists
Og Cinderella was cute, modern Frozen lookalikes need not apply.

American animation is too expensive
Simpsons - 2 million an episode
Family Guy - 2 million an episode
Futurama- 1.5 million an episode
Avatar - 1 million an episode
Steven Universe - 600k an episode
South Park - 300k an episode

Average anime episode 120k
High budget episode 160k

Pretty much you could have a 24 episode anime with every episode having the same budget as the one or two high budget episodes you'll get a season, for the price of one episode of the Simpsons or family guy.

>thread turned into east vs west faggotry
dunno what I expected

More than half of a show's budget is due to actors.

So you're saying we just get rid of actors and not have them in the show.

Japanese animators are underpaid, though.

False. 3D is only more when it's using 100+ computers purely to render ray tracing tier lighting at 4K resolution for a 300+ in theater screen for months non stop.

That's honestly disgusting. Walt would be spinning in his grave.

Theyre the ones drawing american shows

Makes me wonder what Primal's budget is like if it's apparently dialogue-free.

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Walt would've loved CGI. He probably wouldn't be fond of his company rehashing old IPs.

Voice actors aren't expensive unless you're the simpsons cast or Seth. Average voice actor is getting $50-$120 an hour for non-stop dialogue. A Main character might only speak for 5 mins of a 24min episode. So they might have to do 12 episodes to even get a full hours pay, unless they're voicing multiple characters.

Oh, the Mouse wanted to buy Nintendo for a long time, but laws against purchasing foreign companies prevented them.

It doesn't look that bad. Just a different style.
No shit?

>laws against purchasing foreign companies
What? Foreign companies buy other foreign companies all the time. AT&T and Apple own lots of Japanese companies, and Sony owns some American companies.

It's tax write-offs. Send your employees to a place that you own and you can write off the expenses come tax season. So even though Disney didn't really spend that much money on their employee trip, they can still write up what it would have cost had they been actually paying. So now they can avoid paying millions in taxes, and get to keep the money that they had supposedly spent even though they'd just be paying themselves. As well this can inflate revenue for their hotel which looks good to investors, even though it's false numbers.

Something that separates out digital, modern 2D and old-school 2D is the focus on lovingly rendered hand-painted backgrounds. A digitally animated work would look fucking spectacular on a hand-painted background, I don't know why they phased it out.