Why is Jason Todd in the Bat-family ?

>Red Hood is a poorly thought-out character
most writers just wanted him to be a straight up villain early on
but they always went crazier and crazier
copying Redhood was one thing and was a fine identity
but then he copied Nightwing...
tried to claim the Batman mantel literally trying to be Punisher Batman
then he went adopted the pill head going craizer than ever

mind you in the middle here somewhere he was a hero during countdown

then he was an anti hero again, not completely crazy.

then new 52 happened and he started to have the batman logo on his outfit, you'd think he'd try to remove that

then he was wingman for 1 issue (the best ending if you want him to be a full hero) but they rather him stick as redhood...

and here we are today, an edgeless Jason Todd with no reason to be considered an "anti-hero"

did i forget to mention he DC let the video game take the "Arkham Knight" name?
yeah shit is dumb

this was his best costume btw

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oh wait i forgot to mention during countdown he was red robin for a little while

Redeemed from what, tho? He didn't do anything that super bad in UTRH that needed redemption.

Unless you mean the way they handled his character after UTRH which was really bad because the writers have no idea what do with him.

redeemed, or batman winning him back over, or whatever
the writers like him being the "fallen son" but then also want him to be a good guy so redemption seems like a natural desire for the character to go through
i mean not much of a character arc if he wakes up from the pit, yells at bruce, and starts being a hero
not that he needs to go psycho either

he just shouldn't be around the batfamily
at least not on bruce's terms

why couldn't he just stay dead?

>but then he copied Nightwing...
They were originally going to kill Grayson and have Jason as Nightwing for a bit. But that leaked, Dickfags were on their way to burn down DC. So at the last minute that somehow pivoted into a weird story about Jason becoming a Japanese tentacle monster who eats people.

Batman should actually try to win him back and help him out. He is partly responsible for what happened to him since he is the one who put him in costume and made a target out him. The joker would have never cared about killing Jason if he wasn't connected to Batman after all.

>he's break them out. He's a faggot like that
That's not even remotely true. Batman *will* stop a villain being executed for a crime they *didn't* commit, however

>Red Hood is a shitty character who's just a poor man's Punisher
He's actually closer to the WInter Soldier, In that he's originally a campy sidekick who was brought back as an edgy anti hero

jason was resurrected first

I feel like Bruce and/or Batman has to pull some strings to make sure they don't get death row. How the hell is a judge and jury going to go "Yeah, we think the Joker should be put into that one Asylum he CONSTANTLY breaks out of, or gets broken out of. Fuck the idea of justice being served to the families of the dozens he's killed."

>most writers just wanted him to be a straight up villain early on
Imagine how cool that would have been, I mean it'll be like a Talia and Batman relationship, Red Hood would be a crime lord running operations all over Gotham, No different than Two-Face or Penguin, but because he was Robin he'd still try to be an ally to Batman and part of the Batfamily, Batman tries to take it easy on him, This would cause a lot of friction and Jason would be hated on, Could have been an interesting dynamic

The funny is that there's a comic where Gorden beg Batman to let go of the joker and let him die.

We got him as straight out villain and it was literally not cool. It was so bad that character was almost destroyed.

What made Red Hood stand out in the first place and made a lot people like him was him being an antihero.

crime lord jason doesn't seem like a good fit for him
at most a leader of the league of shadows

personally i think he just works better as a villain for dick in general

i mean bruce's first goal when confronting jason would be to save him
an early dickbats doesn't really have what it takes to redeem jason by his own means since jason is trying to angst against someone who's gone

they end up both with conflicting ideas of what gotham needs

you don't need to have jason go psycho over this, but he shouldn't still dislike for anyone who has the batman mantle in this scenario.

in their final fight they are forced to work together DMC3 style

Fathers make exceptions for their sons. Batman's not an inhuman avatar of impartial justice. He's a human being.

If he is a human that makes exceptions, then he could also make an exception to kill Joker.

so if your son kills innocent people in the street you'll just hide it from the authorities and let him live with you ?

you're legit disgusting

You're a fool if you think people won't do this and that this isn't a common thing.

Good thing that red hood doesn't actually kill innocent people.

>DC want a Diet Coke version of a wannabe Punisher
Isn't Vigilante a Punisher clone? Why can't they just bring him back?

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>batman is supposed to bring criminals to justice
>hides a criminal in his home so he doesn't face the consequences of his actions

are you beginning to see the issue or not

Last time I checked, Jason isn't hiding in Batman house.

I don't disagree that it's an issue and that Batman is making a stupid decision. I just feel that OP's question makes no sense because the answer is pretty clear and obvious.

>so he doesn't face the consequences of his actions
Didn't Batman beat the heck out of red hood to the point that he couldn't even walk for month? What are you even bitching about?

Why don't they replace a relatively popular character with Vigilante?

>people bitching about Jason
>when Damian's first appearance involved him cutting someone's head off
>doesn't even get punished
>keeps on killing when he becomes Batman in the future
I think Damian's worse desu

And what makes it more bizarre is Batman treat red hood pretty badly. So, I don't understand what's excatly the issue.

I'm pretty sure Batman's ashamed and guilty about letting Jason die, and he's taking it out on him. They have a really screwed up relationship.

Damian after his origin mostly stops killing though, while Jason often goes back to that.

This isn't true. He killed Nobody right in front of batman. He also attacked and stabbed Red Hood not too long ago.

>Why is Jason Todd in the Bat-family ?
Mostly because markerting.

>Am I missing something ?
Yes. Alternate takes on the same character. Rebirth Jason is a different character from Post-crisis Jason or N52 Jason.

>Post-Crisis; Jason was retconned very late as a natural red head who had to dyes their hair black to be Robin. Go full anti-villain/villain past UTH, mostly an antagonist for Nightwing or Robin. Was sent to jail. Not a very conclusive experience, especially for the other prisoners.
>N52: Jason's a natural brunette, a juvie that stole from Leslie after she helped him, with hidden aptitude that made Talia see him as some sort of chosen one for the Assassin League, and there's that thing about the Joker putting him on Batman path because keikkaku or something
>Rebirth: Ironically more faithful version to the character's first origin and personnality than Post-crisis, to the inclusion of Ma Gunn. Not so much a anti-hero than a regular black sheep.

While a turn point event alike UTH happens in both N52 and Rebirth continuities, it also doesn't happens in the way Post-crisis depicted it. For example; Nightwing has a way more prominent role in the (presumed) N52 version of UTH, while the (presumed) Rebirth version doesn’t involve Black Mask since him and Jason never met until Rebirth Outlaws begins. Jason has killed in all of these, but given how they can work together, it would be fair to assume they hadn't gone to Post-crisis extremes in N52 and especially rebirth, making it possible for them to give each other a second chance.

>After UTH, Nobody at DC knew what to do with him nor understand why some people liked/rooted for him so they tried multiple things to see what's work and not with him.

He isn't being trialed and sent in jail or on the death row for being a serial killer, that's the issue

He was sent to jail and Batman also tried to drag him back to it last year. If jail can't keep the lowest level criminals, why would you believe it can keep Red Hood?

Also, vigilante is a crime so Batman himself is criminal who break the law everyday. He has no ground to stand on.

>he doesn't face the consequences of his actions
Most Batman's rogues don't face any meaningful consequences for their actions. Heck, Batman doesn't face consequences for all the crap he pulls on his sidekicks or partners. Let's not speak about how indulgent the universe is with Damien. Jason actually get beat down here and there, or is the most likely to be shown landing on his ass. If anything he is the exception to the rule because he isn't popular enough to warrant that kind of plot/moral armor.

>don't know what serial killer means
>expect realism in capes
Make an effort user, nobody go to death row in Batman and Jason doesn't even crack in the top 10 of the character that would deserve it the most.

Batman is an authorized special agent working with the GCPD so no

No, he isn't.

>Batman is an authorized special agent

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>Isn't he a murderer ?
Yeah, and so is Damien. Depending on continuity even Alfred has blood on his hands.

Read comucs

Red Hood doesn't kill innocents.

I do and he isn't a "special agent" working with GCPD. He is more of necessary evil they are forced to work because they have no other choice.

Because Jason's existence is a refutation of Batman's ideology. Jason is living proof that Batman refusing to let the Joker die makes him partially responsible.

This. It's more like Batman prefers his own people to avoid killing while he's not around.

you are wrong, they often call Batman up to help because he has a special permission as a consultant to solve cases the police cannot

No, I'm not. Like I said, they are forced to work with him sometimes because they have no other choice. He isn't a special because he does what he wants whether they allow it ir not.

no they don't, he has special permission because he is an unnoficial member of the law enforcement

>he is an unnoficial member of the law enforcement

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Read more comics.

I currently read all Detective Comics from #400 to #421

he is a authorized agent.

Then, post the panel where he stated as "authorized agent".

Rebirth Jason and N52 Jason are one and the same. The current arc has him deal with the All Caste even.

Both are canon. The accepted explanation is that when he first was brought back he was extra crazy from the Lazarus pit but has since calmed down since the "Batman is dead" days

Jason from Morrison's BR isn't canon. It was actually confirmed.

But Jason as Wingman is canon just to confuse it further.

They kept this part for some reason, but anything related to Jason from Morrison's run pre-flashpoint isn't canon.

we're getting off topic

Next time don't make bold claim you can't even prove and then move the goalposts.

use google, i'm not your mom

The burden of proof fell on you, not me.

That's because Batman would have a hand in extrajudicial execution, which is a line he doesn't want to cross.

The closest Gotham's caped crusader has come to the judicial system had been with Harvey Dent or rehabilitation efforts with Harley Quinn. But those both were perverted in lieu of other more interesting aspects of the crusader's crusades.
Everything has always been about street level enforcement and how it's somehow a arms race on the mean streets, which is why even the police turn to contractor groups like the Crows.
It's pretty rare, and would be interesting to see more of the drama occur in the evidentiary procedures or actual rehabilitation efforts

no it felel on you

>Specially the post-New 52 version written by Scott Lobdell.
I don’t get how the Nu52 kept all the Robins in the continuity but sidelined Steph and Cass for more lame characters like Duke and Bluebird

The robins are more popular than Cass and Steph

You are 100% missing something.

Red Hood is only the way he is because Batman failed him.

How? They don't have the same origins; their dad isn't the same character, Talia and Joker has no impact on Jason before he even become Robin in Rebirth, N52 doesn't have Jason stealing the Batmobile's tires, etc.. The relation between Bruce and Jason makes no sense if you think N52 is canon to Rebirth with the way it starts. Rebirth Outlaws could take place months or a year after UTH for all we know (nullifying N52 partially or entirely).

There have been vague call back since the second annual, but before that point you could easily write out Rhato vol1 out of Rebirth. And it's mostly came out that way because same writer and DC deciding to kill Roy. I'd say the All-Caste happening instead of Lost Days is the only common point.

I agree you can try to reconcile them in one character with some mental gymnastic and do DC a favor because they certainly are too lazy to establish real reboot or decid if Rebirth is a reboot. I prefer to not pretend N52 and Rebirth Jason are one consistent character because it's clearly not the case.

No ? Don't blame your killing spree on someone else just to avoid responsibility

He is the one who turned Jason into a child soldier which end up getting him killed and become the man he is today.

>to avoid responsibility
I don’t know if you’re projecting, have shit reading comprehension, or simply baiting but meh.. I’m bored as well.

Jason doesn't blame batman for what he is doing or become. He doesn't regret being Robin (aside in that book written by Murphy who couldn't even tell Dick is the first robin). He genuinely think Bruce's method are trash given the threat and act as an anti-hero; meaning he confronts one with traditional heroic traits/values and point at the flaws in their logic/act.

>He is the one who turned Jason into a child soldier which end up getting him killed and become the man he is today.
Jasonfags are cancer

You're not a jasonfag and yet you are clearly cancer.

Bruce loves Jason more than any other Robin. Even his own son had a harder time being forgiven for his murders and he was a child who was raised by assassins and didn’t know better.

Why would they want a punisher character? Correct me if I'm wrong but Frank has never been all the successful at pushing comics or merch

What is Jason up to now? Haven't read a story involving him since New 52

He currently cut ties with the batfamily and built his own empire to deal with corruption in Gotham.

Frank was massive prior the mid-90s. Also he pushes a ton of merch, just not what you think. Think about everything you've ever seen with a Punisher skull logo on it, all the decals, stickers, patches, shirts, jackets, guns and gun accessories. Do you think Disney, a company known for being highly litigious about any aspect of its IPs, would let all that shit fly if they weren't getting a licensing fee?

Didn't Batman actually resurrect Joker in some issue? Like yeah he didn't commit THAT crime, but what about all the others?

well thats because he didnt rape him first

Batfamily is basically a cashcow to sell to teenage tumblr fangirls. Batfamily is the worst part of the Bat mythos. It's common with high selling characters. Happened with Superman in the silver age, and now it's been happening with Batman and Spider-man.

So that's it? The entire value of the character boils down to some bumper stickers with skulls on them

Why? Because Robin fans are cancer.

Yes, the entire value of any commercial character is the money they make for the rights owner. Things like quality stories or critical acclaim are largely worthless from a financial standpoint.