Why does MCU Spiderman feel..soulless?

Batman is more unrelatable than Superman

>He feels too safe and generic
That's the other thing. It never feels like the MCU really dives deep into darker stuff outside Winter Soldier and the GOTG films. Like, I shudder when they release the X-Men and how sanitize they make racism look.

>He feels too safe and generic
This, he feels like he just walked out of a disney sitcom

Raimi was also doing his comedy thing but
1) It was actually funny
2)It was balanced with tragedy and horror elements

a computer model would always look soulless compared to a hand drawing, which this spidey does too

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marvel/disney got involved and they're just using spidey to promote avengers/ironman crap

It's telling how fast Homecoming was put out. Just one day, BOOM, Spider-Man is in the MCU and he'll have a movie in 2 years. That's not really enough time to really give a film its own tone, but they're going to power through it by giving us another Spider-Man movie every two years from now on.

They white-washed Miles Morales and called him Peter Parker.

this

Sony wanted this. They want to connect Spider-Man to the Avengers so that they can market the villains films hard into thinking that they have a connection with the MCU when it's clearly seperate. Why do you think Venom sold so well?

Why do we need to have this same thread every 3 days?

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>2)It was balanced with tragedy and horror elements
This is something that's been lacking from spidey films and that make Raimi's stuff stand out and feel more brutal, but you can't do that in a Disney film

Making him Miles Morales the Iron Man fanboy instead of Peter Parker the loser who uses his great power responsibly.

After the underwhelming performance of The Amazing Spiderman the producers tried to distance their new take from all the cliches from previous movies. The problem is that those tired plots are what makes Spiderman so endearing.

>Everyone is tired of Uncle Ben and seeing his dead all over again, but he gives Peter a element of tragedy and drives him to become a hero.
>Young Aunt May might be a fresh take on the character, but her being old was an important plot point, when Ben died the Peter had to become a provider for the family, it wasn't just about responsibility on being a hero but also as the "Man of the house". Having to find a part time job is something that made him realistic, and being just a kid living with his aunt takes away from that.

MCU Peter doesn't any of those elements so the character feels weaker as a result.

>OP gets rekt in the other Spider-Man thread
>makes another one

user, I get it, but is normal to discuss (complain) about a movie that just came out, and there are another 50 threads going on right now, you can go to any of them.

But miles is just a brown peter? And what besides having a fat best friend do they really have in common?

Honestly, it's because of how too tightly he is integrated with rest of MCU. The way Tobey Peter designed his costume, while it's still easily above his skill level, the devil is simply in the details. He didn't have 3D holograms that are worth more than his Aunt May's 200 apartments, he did it with pen and paper.

>Miles
>Being an Iron-Man Fan
It's always the retards who've clearly never read Miles that say this shit

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HAHAHAHAHA, and MCU sóyboys from leddit were complaining that Raimi Peter was too poor and unskilled to design and craft his suit while fucking Iron Man Jr. over here is making fucking 3D holograms

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You're the idiot who can't read. I'm not saying Miles is an Iron Man fanboy. I'm saying this MCU Spider-man isn't Peter Parker but Miles Morales. While also just being a fanboy to Ironman than his own person.

is he the Iron Man heir now? he's using a lot of his shit and even owns Happy now

Don't forget Raimi also made him a bumbling idiot and a crybaby

Wrong retards

These are the clear reasons why

One is made by a guy who genuinely liked the character from his childhood, the other by directors who said on camera they never gave a shit about the source material and just did what Disney hired them to do.

Yup he's IRON BOY!!!

>bumbling idiot
Not really, he's awkward but not Clark Kent clumsy
>crybaby
You constantly face hardship after hardship while struggling as a superhero and college student trying to make his way in the world. Watch your father die in your arms and let's see how you'd react, you heartless faggot.

More reasons to hate MCU Spider-Man

Sony please take him back and make spider man 4

>MCU Peter cries like a little bitch when IRON-CHAD takes his suit away

still saying Nostalgia

This.
Superman actually needs his job to pay rent.

I like how my 11 year old cousin was able to point out the two times Peter was talking about Ben’s death during Civil War and Homecoming. Imagine being such a brainlet that 11 year olds can pick up on things quicker than OP

They can't normies will keep acting like this is the best Spider-Man in media. They'll shit on the 70's, Cartoons, and older films. Now I know Venom was a mixed bag but as an example the MCU fags lost their shit over it just being made. MCU Flash is too much of a bitch to be Agent Venom and Eddie Brock would be ruined in the MCU worse than Spider-Man 3's version.

>Tobey's Spider-Man cries when his uncle dies
>Iron Man Jr. cries when his suit is taken away
LMAO

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Stop rationalizing your baby duck syndrome.

1. The Raimi and Webb movies focus too much on personal tragedy. They try to throw all the sadness of decades of comics in a couple of movies when Spider-Man is an upbeat guy who occasionally has something tragic happens to him. He's not nearly stuck on them as Batman is
2. They don't make him believable as a superhero. You lose the suspension of belief there.
3. Maguire is usually crying over Mary Jane who is absolutely useless in the 3 Raimi movies

i just realized: peter has no reason to be the heir of stark.
no father-like connection, only met him a couple of times, doesn't spend much time with him, doesn't train him to be a better hero, just a random guy he can relate to. well if you wanted to be a father figure why's he still poor? why not take him in and fuck his aunt, yeah he was thinking it in civil war and homecoming.
so why is he the heir? because iron man is gone and need another one and people like spider-man, so make spider-man privileged not relatable because of millennial times.

The point of the movie is that he doesn't need a costume. You might as well be complaining about how Stark is an asshole before he gpes through character development.

unironically, this, really, the company who made the NO CAPES bs and shitnergy.

>only met him a couple of times, doesn't spend much time with him, doesn't train him to be a better hero, just a random guy he can relate to.
That's pretty father-like if you ask me.

>A frog poster has bad reading comprehension.
Shocking.

Oh let me tell you a story user
>Me: Anyone want go down to Metropolis, IL
>Friend 1: The town of Superman!? Yes let's go dude!
>Friend 2: Pfft, Superman is a lame overpowered and boring Gary Stu. Batman is cooler.
>Friend 3: Dude, I like Batman better than Superman but shut your dumbass up you're being a Batfag.
>Me: Then you don't have to come
>Friend 2: Good Superman is gay anyway!

>Friend 1 backhands 2

>Friend 1: Care to repeat that boy?

>Friend 2: No...

>Iron Man Jr.
>Believable
Delusional, why is the MCU bots always spouting the same bullshit arguments?
The point of my post was a jab at idiots saying Tobey is a pussy compared to Holland.

First response was meant for you

If he only cried about Uncle Ben

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MCU are little bitches who can't even afford a hot pie.

>projection
Embarrassing

Of all the MCU solo movies, this one feels the least like a solo movie. Spider-Man has too many callbacks to Avengers, Iron Man, and even Captain America over and over and over again to feel like it's a stand alone movie at all. It seems more like a Civil War styled ensemble movie that keeps the viewer waiting for all the other heroes to finally show up already.

>Because they glued him to Ironman
This and to an extent the rest of the setting. In Thor movies we still get a Thor Adventure about Thor first, Ant Man still primarily star Ant Man and only give some brief mention of other heroes from other movies. Spider-Man does not give a brief mention, it's basically an Avengers spinoff.

>is cheap and souless

?

Thor 1 feels incredibly cheap and soulless

You see MCU Spider-Man is a result of Marvel Studios wanting something drastically different from the past two incarnations, out of fear of audiences being bored of the IP, and desperately trying to make him fit organically within their previously established universe. While there isn't anything really wrong with it in an elseworlds kind of mindset, MCU Peter Parker feels like a superficial and surface level understanding of the comic/lore. For example Ben Parker has been toned down considerably to the point where he no longer feels like the driving force behind while Peter Parker is Spider-Man. Then there's Parker's sense of humor, which is less jokes and more "Hey remember that one movie?". Furthermore, his supporting cast is all but gone, which naturally will result in old fans getting miffed. This isn't to say all the changes have been met with hatred. Toomes for example worked exceptionally well in Homecoming. However the ratio of things that worked and things that didn't still remain unbalanced. Peter Parker CONSTANT need for validation, and his odd father figure fixation with Tony Stark just doesn't feel like classic Spider-Man.

So in short, if you have a loose familiarity with the source material or can treat it like an elseworlds, you'll probably still find things to enjoy. However that said, it shouldn't serve as any surprise why comic readers might get rubbed the wrong way about the MCU take given how off base it can be.

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Pic is definitely not wrong though. Spider-Man being Iron Boy is an accurate description of him.

>He was picked up by Start from the beginning
>Given a costume and webshooters by Stark
>Suit has a snarky AI like all Iron Man suits
>He's basically a Stark employee that contacts Happy ten times a day
>He is waiting for acceptance by Stark as a hero
>Iron Man shows up repeatedly in his first movie
>He's Stark's sidekick in Infinity War
>His villains are actually angry at Stark and wanting revenge on him

his entire character arc and motivation is being the lesser newcomer to Stark that gains resources from Stark

>Of all the MCU solo movies, this one feels the least like a solo movie. Spider-Man has too many callbacks to Avengers, Iron Man, and even Captain America over and over and over again to feel like it's a stand alone movie at all. It seems more like a Civil War styled ensemble movie that keeps the viewer waiting for all the other heroes to finally show up already.
This pretty much the fundamental flaw of a shared film universe going on for this long. Marvel Studios already went on record saying that it will continue to treat viewers as if they've seen everything else moving forward. While there's not really anything inherently wrong with that, at the same time it can also make for a really cluttered narrative where audiences now feel obligated to watch EVERY film so not to get lost.

TAKE THAT BACK!

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The snap and 5 year gap made this a lot worse. Now it would be weird for any future movie to actually not mention it in some way, or talk about the shit that happened when half the world vanished then came right back years later.

Now it's almost impossible to have a totally new standalone film for a new character that does not have references to other past movies.

You are getting old. Kids don't draw anymore man.

Right because kids all have access to an advanced hologram 3D printer????? What the fuck happened to Spider-Man being the little guy street hero?

Any kid with a library card and a few minutes to spare has access to a nice powerful 3D Printer and 3D Camera Stand in my home town. What are you so bent out of shape about exactly?

i don't care about any of this shit i just wish the films were more violent. i want to see spidey kicking ass and throwing punches.

>What the fuck happened to Spider-Man being the little guy street hero?

He has always been full of gadgets and other tools rather technological for 1970. you'd know, if you really knew the character instead of pretending that you care about him.

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They tried to avoid using any of the ideas that the previous films took but rather than looking at unused ideas from the source material, defaulted to safe, teen movie story beats.

I never refuted that, don't try and spin this as me being a Yea Forums faggot, asshole. There's a difference between Peter building spider tracers and web shooters from salvaged junk, and using a highly advanced suit making machine given to him by Tony Stark

Except no there isn't. Building advanced technology is still building advanced technology no matter where the resources come from. you are just another LARPing faggot pretending to be a longtime fan as usual for these threads

Well Parker made that tech by himself, he didn't get hand-outs from other heroes, he worked to make the stuff himself and had to grow by himself, most other heroes hated him and though he was a villain and had to face him. The was actual conflict in the stories and a interesting yet relatable enough character

No, you're a (You) hungry whore trying to piss people off by calling them casual and don't give a flying fuck about the source material you claim to read. Fuck off, faggot. You're not getting another response from me.

Free to believe it or not, but I assure you that this is work in the comics, because readers were more niche. The moment you make a movie for the general audiance, especially the casuals who are not sixteen, they pretty much reject the idea that a boy like Peter that can do all these things by himself. I know a lot of people that already consider a bullshit that in Amazing Peter and Gwen were so "scientists"

The parts with Raimi's Peter reading Mein Kampf between designing his uniform really added depth to the character.
MCU's Peter lacked that.

>they pretty much reject the idea that a boy like Peter that can do all these things by himself.
Which is pretty stupid considering the suspension of disbelief already allows for a young man to get spider powers from a radioactive spider bite. This is comic material, fiction, make it believable, that's it. Furthermore ASM Peter was a fucking idiot who needed a Youtube video to tell him how batteries worked.

>Spider-Man is an upbeat guy
no

FPBP

>considering the suspension of disbelief

The suspension of disbelief it's something that, first of all, a person must be willing to do. And each person has different levels of acceptance often defined by his personal knowledge, ideas or ignorance.

Not the same for everyone.

Maybe a more correct comparison would be to put Raimi Spider-man with the Mcu Peter while he designing his first true costume.

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Inventing web shooters is still within the realm of acceptance for most because it's already established that Peter Parker is a gifted child. Peter inventing stuff like that also reinforces the idea that he's a remarkable person even without the spider powers, and is of worth to the world without them. The Spider-Man persona is a form of escapism for Peter too, and often brings out his best qualities that were buried there the whole time.

So in short, by taking that away from the character, you're taking away something special that makes Peter Parker interesting. And of course casuals don't understand that.

>Talks about how many high tech shit Spidey made in the 70s
>Posts just him being creative with his webs
AHAHAHAHA, Tobey's used some of those web variations. Posting shit you found on google images does not mean you care about Spider-Man you butthurt mcu fag. And it doesn't disprove anything, that's high tech billionaire shit that a broke young man would not have on his own.

MCU Spidey is just fucking pathetic if you ask me.

Least intelligent post of all times.

It's funny cause this reminds me of the problems Miles Morales ran into with USM. After Peter Parker died, they shifted his cast onto Miles Morales, meaning that Miles didn't get much of a cast of his own and has to attach onto Peter's. And with no more Iron Man franchise, the Iron Man characters carry over into Spider-Man's franchise cause where else can they go?

Lack of creative direction? I dunno, Raimi’s movies are easy to tell as Raimi’s movies. I don’t really get any unique elements from the Watts direction. It’s better than ASM at least.

>designs it on paper because he's a poor teeanger with no real job or money
>procedes to fabricate a suit that's worth a tghousand dollars and needs 5 people to put it on

At least the MCU one was more realistic

Because it's your favorite new buzzword you learned from Yea Forums cope

I know a lot of spidey's suits are built by stark, but his webshooters? That can't be right, can it?

I think the root of the problem with the new Spider-Man comes down to Aunt May discovering Peter is Spider-Man as a gag. Aunt May, one of Spider-Man's most pivotal characters, has her discovery of Peter as Spider-Man in the last seconds of Homecoming, and it's a joke.
Next time we see her? She's doing Pic Related. What should be a HUGE moment between the two is just a joke, and what's worse, we just have Aunt May find with it. "Hey, I don't mind if you get shot by some criminals you try to stop, but get home before 11:00, alright?"
It's like those people who shout like retards over Spider-Man on screen and go on about how much Spider-Man should quip were given the most attention so they skim over all the actual heart of Spider-Man stuff to make the movie about Spider-Man chasing the Avengers dream.

I just know the public reveal is going to add up to nothing either. They'll just start the next film a year later and everyone is just cool with Peter and they'll keep bullshitting stuff like say, Carol Danvers slams down in front of Pete's house when crooks try to raid his house.

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The web itself is too imposible to invent, not to mention that product alone would made him rich. That's the reason why Raimi got lazy on a different way, and just gave Parker organing webbing

>cgi suit with A.I. and mechanical eyes
>realistic
MCU drones everyone

>directors who said on camera they never gave a shit about the source material and just did what Disney hired them to do.
Source?

This feels a bit like hipocrisy, over time May got very suportive of Pete being Spidey once she realizes he can take proper care of himself, because of superpowers and shit, she outgrows thje over protective phase

And I'm pretty sure anons on Yea Forums rave about that page with May poisoning one of Spidey's enemies, ot when she was basically the "M" guarding Spidey's lair on spiderverse and providing Miles with a suit and web shooters

>Spider-Man is an upbeat guy who occasionally has something tragic happens to him.
I don't think that's true at all.
>Maguire is usually crying over Mary Jane who is absolutely useless in the 3 Raimi movies
There's not one scene in the first two Spider-Man movies where he's crying over Mary Jane. He has trouble maintain his relationship with her but he not once does he cry over her.

All of the SM movie suits are CGI half the time, Tobey and Gardfield's included

if you can believe Stark is capable of inventing the IM armor, mechanical eyes are nothing to him, and it's more beliavable a billionare like Stark made that suit instead of Tobey making it with a pizza delivery guy salary

Fucking retard, Spider-Man was sad and angsty in his silver age comics. And not once did Tobey cry over MJ you clueless MCU retard.

Not to mention Spider-Man was happy as fuck in his raindrops montage.

Putting him in the MCU.
>Doesn't know Disney gets the exact same profits for this they got from the TASM saga.

Making him the son of a billionaire who gives him gadgets and suits. You remove the "your friendly neighbour" part.

>over time
There’s your problem. Established Mays with years of history and growth, either shown or implied in the case of Spiderverse.

MCU Spider-Man would be 100 times better if they only made one change: instead of Tony Stark, change it for Norman Osborn.

Like, that's fine, but we missed the beat of the fallout which is an important scene just so we can keep "Peter's cool Aunt who everyone wants to fuck"

How can you guys enjoy shitposting the same thing every day. How do you find enjoyment in that. What's the point of this constant circleshit?
I'm not disagreeing, I'm just baffled by how much this board is filled with the least interesting things to say and repeating them for years.
How about a thread about what went wrong with Korra next?

>They try to throw all the sadness of decades of comics in a couple of movies when Spider-Man is an upbeat guy who occasionally has something tragic happens to him.
user, no.

>too safe
The blowback of "not my Peter" pretty much straight up proves that wrong. Too safe would be doing the same thing they already knew people liked.

MCU Drones, when will they learn?

PS4 Spidey > MCU Spidey
Fite me

I don't fight retards

He’s right though

so you don't fight yourself? That's nice of you

He's right you mouth breather

>discussion bad
>just get excited and consume
I thought Yea Forums was bad when I left years ago, but it really is the biggest pussy of all boards

Maybe due to it being a lead up to Avengers. First Avengers itself set the “bar” that later films would try to replicate. At some point it does feel really same-y in respect to that, probably around Guardians and most likely even Iron man 3

>instead of Tony Stark, change it for Norman Osborn.
That actually would've been fucking amazing. Holy shit.

>never interacted with the Shitvengers
fights his own battles
>villains are not connected to some larger universe event, they're their own unique people
>sizable supporting cast
>actually worked for the Daily bugle
>makes his own stuff
>had an Uncle Ben
>allowed to be in Manhattan

>Soulless
That is such a stupid complaint because Spider-Man has actually been one of the parts of the MCU where clearly actual love and attention has been given to the films. As the MCU has sort of devolved in formulaic messes the people who made Homecoming clearly wanted to do something with it that wasn't just an MCU film.

It doesn't feel like Spider-Man though. Raimi's films also failed at that in certain regards , fucking MJ being the worst of all of it, but MCU's Spider-Man is to a great degree divorced from a lot of the core tenets of Spider-Man. It's not even him not mentioning Uncle Ben. It's the dynamics that they gave him to replace his almost self loathing selflessness and self destructive tendencies. They made him cuter. That would be the best way to describe it.

No retard, discussion good, but this isn't discussion, it's repeating the same dumb shit to death and shitting on anyone who disagrees. It's boring, enrich your life and talk about something else already.
Fucking strawmanning faggot, hate this shit all you want, don't consume, but stop posting the same dumb shit every day to pat yourself on the back for being a distinguished cynic.

The newest game did it for Dr Ock and it worked 100x better

They made him a cute, wide eyed innocent kid, which is something I’d never use to describe Peter. Maybe idealistic, but OG Peter was a fucking dick

Anyone who says this shit is a retard. I saw both for the first time only a few years ago. OP is right. Fuck off disney shills.

MCU drones are the biggest pathetic waste of oxygen and water retards on the planet.

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>They made him a cute, wide eyed innocent kid

Here's your MCU Spider-Man bro

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Please, you don’t just get this assblasted about people being critical online. Look at what you just wrote and try to convince literally anyone you’re not just as bad, if not worse

Silver Age Spidey cried once, when Ben died, Raimifag. He was angsty but he didn't break down crying every other issue.

I didnt say crying you fucking retard. I said sad. Tobey cried when his uncle died too. You're exaggerating how many times he cried you MCU drone.

Hey don't compare Deku to MCU Peter! Deku is actually fun

Can you not read? The issue isn't the negativity (I'm definitely up there on that) it's how repetitive and echo-chamber like it is.

>but OG Peter was a fucking dick
He was also a hurting one that didn't really have a lot of good in his life until he got to college and started opening up to more people. That used to backfire on him a lot but still.

I think that is what I've disliked the most about these modern takes on Spider-Man. For all the complaints about how he's wish fulfillment for nerdy losers, his entire journey to bitches love spider-manness was him learning to be a better person. Going from an angry self absorbed loner to someone who cared about the people around him and tried to do good because all being selfish got him was one of the two people who loved him in the world getting killed. It's a pretty remarkable growth of a character that isn't acknowledged all that often. And one that is more earnest than just starting off as a cute teen.

Cry more, MCUck.

You notice the thought provoking arguments in this thread get ignored?
You want a positive echo chamber of cocksucking? Head to Reddit if you like

Good on you for proving me right, you partisan faggot.

Spidertwink has it easiest. He doesnt have a wagon of responsibilities like Tobey and other Spider-men do.

>I don't like repetitive echo-chambers
>Oh you like repetitive echo-chambers?
Are you currently hitting your head with a blunt object?

Are you new? Because gee, it's almost as if Spider-Man is a hot topic around here because of a certain fucking movie. It will subside, like it always does.

You're just fucking asshurt that this board does not mindless wank MCU Spider-Man like r/marvelstudios does you faggot.

>It doesn't feel like Spider-Man though. Raimi's films also failed at that in certain regards , fucking MJ being the worst of all of it
Maybe its nostalgia, after all, the Raimi films were my introduction to the character but nothing will ever feel more "Spider-Man" to me than Danny Elfman's Spider-Man theme. And the Spider-Man 2 video game.

youtube.com/watch?v=6qcJS_e2_hY

Its not nostalgia like the drones want you to think. Raimi Spider-Man was a work of art compared to Iron Man's son's movies.

I just really don't like high school or younger protagonists, in any medium. Raimi Spider-man was more relatable because he was dealing with real day-to-day problems, trying to scrape by, trying to pay his rent. I don't like the "boyish" choice they made this time, more than anything else.

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>never interacted with the Shitvengers
yet they reference superman and doctor strange
>fights his own battles
as opposed to fighting Vulture without the Stark suit
>villains are not connected to some larger universe event, they're their own unique people
Norman's the father of Pete's best friend, Octavius was the subject of Peter's school report and Sandman shot Uncle Ben. so unrelated.
>sizable supporting cast
damn that's a lot of 4 people
>actually worked for the Daily bugle
Pete never worked for the Bugle, he was a freelancer photographer and even back then buying photos from a high schooler was unrealistic.
>makes his own stuff
organic webs
>had an Uncle Ben
yeah they won't let us forget that to the point it becomes an annoyance
>allowed to be in Manhattan
you just reminded me of how convenient it was to have Pete's high school life be completely cut from the first movie. what a good excuse not to think.
>I'm not retarded
yes you are

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I wish he was a little more of a jackass who would catch himself and try to do better rather than this sweet cinnamon roll bun.

>Small homage to classic heroes is the same as Spider twink worshipping Iron Man and Avengers
Brainlet, MCUcks can't really think. All your opinions are invalidated.

This is true of most standalone comic movie series compared to the MCU juggernaut. Raimi Spider-man, early X-Men, Blade, Burton Batman, Nolan Batman. It felt like, even if it was a massive commercial product, something of a director's vision. Where because MCU has to stay tonally consistent they all blend together (for the most part, Winter Soldier was pretty good).

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>Raimi Spider-Man was a work of art compared to Iron Man's son's movies.
Honestly I'd consider Raimi Spider-Man a work of art in general despite not being a perfect adaptation.

Figures this post gets ignored

Peter had been fighting crime as Spidey for almost a year before Tony found him. He built his own webshooters, suit, and goggles on his own with limited funding.

By the end of the first film he learns to rely on himself and no longer requires Tony's approval. Literally stating he rather be a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man

do you even read the posts you reply too?

did you also have a bitch fit when Maguire creamed his pants over Osborn and Octavius?

just when was Peter not allowed to like people?

MCUbots are really desperate and braindead.

>Young Aunt May might be a fresh take on the character, but her being old was an important plot point, when Ben died the Peter had to become a provider for the family, it wasn't just about responsibility on being a hero but also as the "Man of the house". Having to find a part time job is something that made him realistic, and being just a kid living with his aunt takes away from that.
let's not forget that if she were to learn his secret identity she could die from a heart attack because she hated spider-man and that her health was a concern for peter

I think the only reason to watch Far From Home is for cool Mysterio shit

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>welp I've been outted as a casual, time to pack my things and leave Yea Forums forever

>Reject the idea a kid like Peter could do all these things by himself
>Lap up T'Challa's bitch of a sister talking down to Stark and Banner because she's Just That Smart and silly boys just aren't on her level
Ok buddy

Three months. He was crimefighting in his ghetto suit for three months

why did Tony invite him to an Avengers street fight again?

I've been disappointed by his climatic fights as well. Despite being stupidly overpowered for a street hero, I struggle to think of another hero who gets into just all out messy brawls as much as Spider-Man does.

GotG seemed unique, until others started grabbing its comedic dad rock schtick

here's another (you)
nice try dude, you might be able to troll even better if you read the comics though

Deku is a pussy.

O

>Deku is actually fun
Deku isn't Crawler tho

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Deku has actually won a fight, unlike MCU Peter

May hating Spider-Man and her heart condition were just bullshit plot devices from the early issues. everyone forgot about that shit once Peter moved out of his aunt's house.

MY

SEVEN

The problem with most modern uses of CGI is that it doesn't feel like there's any weight to it and it's all too clean mostly because as stuff makes more profits executives get more an more involved.

Just compare Pacific Rim to it's "sequel" or Iron Man 1 to Tony's scenes in Infinity War.

To spite Cap.

Fair enough, but he's still a pussy.

He's actually toned down the crying a lot

Based Vigilante reader

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Did we watch the same movie?

Like a huge part of Homecoming was that he was doing this to protect the local neighborhood, the villain was motivated by being "left behind" by the big heros, The Prowler decides to help because he wants to protect the neighborhood for his nephew...

Still a bitch for praising Bakugou. I like Bakugou an all but the way Deku hangs off his nuts is pathetic. Freckled fuck deserved his mistreatment.

It's a similar problem that I have with people who think that Wally was this perfect paragon of a hero. Dude had a bit of an ego and was an ass when he first became the Flash but then grew and became a better person.

It's your nostalgia. Quit pretending it's anything else. You know Yea Forums hates things for no reason.

Nah, now stfu the adults are talking.

>Why does MCU Spiderman feel..soulless?
Oh thank you for the suit Mr Stark
I have an AI like you Mr Stark
You're my inspiration Mr Stark
My Villains are all tied to you Mr Stark

I'm just glad Iron Man is dead so Spider-Man doesn't have to be his Robin anymore

Was this anywhere near the era where the authors actually gave a shit about their characters? Imagine being the guy writing this slop. It's fucking retarded and dumb but you don't care because you have a page quota or some word count bullshit.

Christ imagine being the artist illustrating this mess and you're reading this for the first time? You'd look like pic related.

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It's very early silver age you nitwit, close to when Spider-Man debuted. Of course it looks silly to you.

>yet they reference superman and doctor strange
>superman
Couldn't even make it one line in without outing yourself as a retard.

>They try to throw all the sadness of decades of comics in a couple of movies when Spider-Man is an upbeat guy who occasionally has something tragic happens to him. He's not nearly stuck on them as Batman is

I think you’re confusing Peter’s coping mechanism for dealing with tragedy with him actually being upbeat

I feel like even if I was a nigger beating red blooded american kid in the silver age i'd still think this is retarded.

But this argument is a huge circle. This makes me wonder if some of the shit we think is kino as fuck is going to get looked at by robots in the 2040s who think we were fucking stupid for thinking this was passable writing.

>Of all the MCU solo movies, this one feels the least like a solo movie. Spider-Man has too many callbacks to Avengers, Iron Man, and even Captain America over and over and over again to feel like it's a stand alone movie at all

This so much. I mean it’s fine mentioning other Marvel characters obviously, but with the Spider-Man movies it just seems more like Spider-Man dick sucking every other superhero to make him some kind of audience surrogate for these movies. It doesn’t work well and diminishes his character

There were allusions with the Up Up and Away and Aunt May saying Peter isnt Superman. But nothing that implies Superman exists in their world.

MCU spiderman feels soulless because
>No proper origin story
>No uncle Ben
>No Norman or Harry Osborn
>No Mary Jane
>No "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility"
>No driving motivation for being Spider-man
>Pete isn't very smart

It's just Spider-Man in name really

you want to know why the new spider-man movies feel soulless? because it was already done right the first time.

Spider-Twink is only popular because he is a naive twink that makes young girls wet and normalfags who think Spider-Man is suppose to be high school age forever because thats comicbook accurate!!! despite being out of high school for most of his existence in the mainstream comics.

And associated with the MCU brand,

Super strength and webs are pretty good when Stark thought the battle was going to be Iron Man, Widow, and Black Panther vs two super soldiers, and no way Cap is gonna kill a teenager.

>reading threads is hard
>I'll just post the same shit again, 5/7 of which is wrong

>Yea Forums is Sheen
I hate myself.

Fuck, I really do miss Raimi-Man.

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Everything that dude said is correct except the "No driving motivation for being Spider-man" point, which is heavily implied in Civil War. If you didn't watch that movie though and started with Homecoming then yeah, it seems like he's only Spider-man to dickride Tony Stark and become an avenger.

Even as heavily meddled as Spider-man 3 is at least some of Raimi's personal style comes through, specifically the Sandman scenes. One of the favorite Raimi trilogy moments was the horror movie beat after Peter thinks he killed Flint.

Could Sony even make a new Spider-Man trilogy if they wanted to?

If they gave it to someone with love for the character (like Spider-verse), it could turn out really well.

I wish Raimi would come back and direct the next set of Spider-Man films with an older Spider-man (Tobey). His talent is just rotting away after the cancellation of Ash vs Evil Dead and he's not getting any younger.

I mean next trilogy. Spider-Man 4-6.

was there any point in any of the films where they gave Stark shit for basically enlisting a child soldier to fight his battles for him?
I'm sure they shoehorned spider-man into CW just because they finally had the rights, but the lack of an in-universe explanation bugged me

The birth of Sandman scene is, in my opinion, one of the best scenes in any cape film ever released.

If they had Peter be 44 years old like Tobey is, I wonder what kind of story they would write.

Would Spider-Man be as loved as he is in Spider-verse?

I'm kind of bothered by how fucking incapable and ineffective Peter is in the MCU. Hasn't won a single fight on his own, and this is from a character who can do serious damage when he's done fucking around. We even got this in the first Raimi Spider-Man movie when Peter heard Norman's taunt about Mary Jane.

Disney found a formula and stuck with it.

They should have made Tobey canon to the mcu. Also keeping it secret until he appeared to snatch Cap's shield in CivilvWar.

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I can't imagine Tobey Spidey caring enough to be roped into that fight.

Iron Man offers him a job at stark industries and convinces him it's the right thing to do. Then Peter changes his mind like Black Widow and helps Cap get away.

Thank you for this this post.

Shut up faggot.

>t. Uraraka

Tobey is actually team cap, but works at Stark Industries. While retired from web slinging. Tony finds him and basically blackmails him.

Toby turns on Team Ironman and causes Vision to hit War Machine instead of the QuinnJet.

Tobey is in the Super Prison with the others. Gets a plea deal and since no one knows he is spiderman outside of Stark, Ross, and Cap. He manages to avoid house arrest.

The Strange and Ironman fight against BlackOrder gets Peter to put on his suit again. When MJ calls him and tells him she and their daughter are in danger because of super fight.

The iron spider exists because Tony feels guilty for groping Peter into civil war.

There is no Homecoming or Far From Home. Instead post Endgame. There is the Sinister six.

The character is too safe, not the execution. And the "not my Peter" blowback isn't universal, people saying Tom Holland is the best Spider-Man/Peter is all over social media.

Its so easy, they removed what makes Spider-Man unique and different to the rest of the supers, he was a urban hero, he wasnt a god like Thor or a super rich famous guy like Iron-Man, he was your average high school nerd that decided to fight crime.
It was someone with his own problems, and not just the secret identidy Stuff, he needed cash, an apartment, a suitable job, etc.
MCU Spider Man has none of that, it feels like some lucky shota who won the scholarship by sucking dick. Everything is a gift. Nothing is earned by his own, he didn't have any external problems.

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First Avenger was shit though, the only thing worse was Thor 2

>Would Spider-Man be as loved as he is in Spider-verse?
Maybe. Spider-Verse Peter is probably the most accurate onscreen portrayal, everything about him was perfect. And Chris Pine has the best Spidey verse.

First Avenger was good, one of the few films that I actually liked. Whats your problem with it?

Yet a rich adult could never make an Iron Man armor either but that's believeable?

>Spider-Verse Peter is probably the most accurate onscreen portrayal
You can't be fucking serious.

Read

Another post that misses a lot about Spider-Man?

Just imagine Tobey showing up in infinity war and thrashing Black Dwarf in nyc. All because they nearly hurt MJ and Mayday.

>It lacks the soul of Spider-Man.

>It lacks a fundamental understanding of how the character of Spider-Man functions, why he does what he does, and the personal anchors that make him the character that he is. His supporting cast, which is among the best in comics, was butchered and completely scraped away to be replaced with a knockoff of a Miles Morales character, his core motivation is at best hinted at, instead that focus being shifted onto Iron Man, an irresponsible egocentric futurist alcoholic who got a city blown up and at this point made 7 or 8 supervillains because of his own actions.

>Even focusing on trying to be like "Ultimate" is disingenuous, it isnt like Ultimate in the slightest. Ultimate was a retool of the initial concept at the year 2000 to be about a modern teenager dealing with modern problems and a more tightly knit version of the classic mythos, and is full of violence, suffering, death, and turmoil. Spider-Mans core character more or less revolves around two key things:

>- Juggling his personal and Superhero life, and the drama that it creates.

>- Being independent, to his own detriment.

>Spider-Man was among, if not the, very first teenage superheroes. Not a sidekick, his own bonafide man. And his primary motivation is pathological guilt and the sense of responsibility it creates because of his own egocentric actions causing the death of a beloved family member.

>MCU Spider-Man has none of the responsibility, none of the tact, lacks the supporting cast and villains of the comic book version. Hell he lacks his own achievements, he constantly needs help and gear from Tony Stark, wanted to be trained by Tony Stark, wanted to be an Avenger. Spider-Man is not that. He's never been that, and all its done in the MCU is undermine his core concepts.

>Spider-Man was created to subvert the concept of a teenage sidekick, and now all he is is a teenage sidekick.

Dont bother with the logic of MCU drones, they're delusional and desperate to make MCU seem like the masterpiece cinema with no flaws.

>he was your average high school nerd that decided to fight crime.
AFTER GETTING HIS UNCLE KILLED LEADING TO A SPIRAL OF SELFLESSNESS TO THE POINT OF FUCKING SELF DESTRUCTIVE.

Nope.

>unironically thinking I CLAPPED WHEN I UNDERSTOOD THE REFERENCE is the same as a core narrative concept thats present throughout the entire story and drives a characters motivations and arc throughout his story

I've seen you post this twice now. Do you have a brain problem?

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>the Evil Dead 2 sequence in Spider-Man 2

You cant fucking dethrone this movie.

SeeThey have no functioning brains.
>Implying MCUcks know or appreciate Evil Dead 2

He has a pair of shitty homemade webshooters but the classic slim webshooters that do impact webbing is all Stark.

Yeah Stark invented impact webbing.

>>Peter had been fighting crime as Spidey for almost a year before Tony found him
How have you faggots somehow managed to inflate this number to this extreme?

Six months since he got the powers, that was what he said. Not since he's been Spider-Man even, since he got the fucking powers, so he's been Spider-Man for at most half a year, but probably closer to like 3 months.

>fighting crime

Well if Homecomings retarded dipshit awful logic is true then no he wasnt because apparently MCU New York is a crimeless utopia.

>>>>bumbling idiot
>immediately comes up with a plan to use his powers in an underground wrestling circuit to win a cash prize so he can impress the girl he likes with a car, which would logically also probably help out with the household, and when that fails he uses the money he does get to construct a well made spandex crimefighting suit all on his own, then figures that he can still make something of a living off his superhero life by selling pictures to a paper
>regularly discusses high-concept technology with scientists

I mean he didnt build webshooters but he wasnt an idiot.

>crybaby

Whats wrong with a man being allowed to cry?

>Whats wrong with a man being allowed to cry?
Its hella gay

>poor as fuck
>uncle dead because of him
>love of his life dead because of him
>best friend dead because of him sort of
>best friends dad also dead after facilitating the death of said love of his life
>is considered a public enemy
>stuck at a shit job he doesnt like

>upbeat guy

No user. Men cry.

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You understand the Raimi Spider-Man suit is expensive mainly due to the fucking rubber muscle suit mold underneath it, right?

The actual fabric of it is dirt cheap shit with a pattern printed on it.

Jesus Christ guys
Let it go.
Quite comparing the movies and just let people enjoy them whether there a 1/1 carbon copy
Each of the movies are good and bad in their own merit but quit trying to force your opinion as a fact.
You sound like a bunch of religious idiots

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Are you so fucking dumb you cant see the difference between admirring a scientific role model and trying to suck another superheroes dick?

>5/7 are wrong

Wheres the Osborns, Uncle Ben, Great Responsibility, Mary Jane, and the driving motivation for Spider-Man?

>how to identify a fucking casual wikipedia warrior

Head back. Come back when you learn to read, Raimi spider-man > your favorite film

user, judging it by its own merits, they're extremely cookie cutter by the numbers sort of boring disney schlock. They're fucking meh.

>How to spot a fucking retard.

Why don't you head back and come back when you learn to accept people like MCU spider-man as opposed to Raimi

Attention Hollandfags, r/marvelstudios is more your speed if you want to mindlessly praise his Spider-Man with other likeminded retards.

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Explain to me how the Spider-Verse version(s) of Peter arent far more accurate and faithful than the live action ones. Please.

Go on.

I'm waiting user.

No really please with your encyclopedic comic knowledge, school me.

Based and Maguirepilled

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not him but when will you learn to stop pretending like the MCU shit is somehow more faithful to the comics be it 616 or Ultimate and its also devoid of core fundamental components that make Spider-Man who he is.

You know I like the Raimi movies but when it's fans seems to be a bunch of bigot assholes what won't accept anything else it makes me start to hate the movies more

You saying that makes you seem like kind of a baby.

The soulless meme is so shit.

Everyone bitching about movie not following the comics seems like a baby

Babies

Never said it was, nor implied that it was.
In fact my starting point was "Whether it's a 1/1 carbon copy of the comics" minus the comics.

>MCU shills going full retard explaining how its just nostalgia and how the MCU is actually secretly the best

>all these posts more or less being completely ignored and/or brushed aside

Really makes you think.

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>the GOTG films
>dark

nice joke

>but these Spider-Man films can't exist without some MCU knowledge. You have to know the Iron Man history, the Avengers history, and Civil War. It's just really irritating how one of Marvel's biggest franchises feels like Disney Channel Movie tier.

I think it's because they wanted to avoid Spidey-movie fatigue. It's the third reboot in less than a decade.

It's just mcuck drones spamming the same things
>i-it's nostalgia!!
>b-but it's too corny and not serious
>b-but it's too gritty and serious
>T-Tobey cries a lot when his uncle and best friend dies! what a wuss
>i-it's not comic book accurate according to my brief google search on how Spider-Man was a teenager in his comic!!!
>O-Organic webshooters are lazy why doesnt he makes his own!
>H-He made his own suit how unrealistic!!!

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The first film started with fucking Cancer.
The second film had Yondu's men thrown most of them out into space and then Yondu casually kills them.

Is Super not dark cause it's also James Gunn and has the same level of humor?

Second reboot.

>>>H-He made his own suit how unrealistic!!!
This one is probably the fucking dumbest.

Yeah, in REALITY, the Raimi Spider-Man suit was expensive, a few thousand a suit. But thats because it was, in REALITY, a rubber muscle suit with spandex or lycra or some shit stretched on top plus a plastic egg helmet to help give it a more rigid defined shape because it looks good on camera.

In CANON, its just a cloth suit with some rubber bits and a silk-screened pattern on top. You can make that shit with like 80 bucks.

I mean Peter B, not the blonde one

The blonde one is still pretty Spider-Man in terms of personality.

Cancer and people dying does not make a MCU formulaic kids movie dark

You probably meant to respond to

Wrist pussies were NEVER good.

Whoa wait a minute. MCU Spidey is shit but don't go shitting on mechanical webshooters. Organic is trash

Fine. Fine.
>why he does what he does, and the personal anchors that make him the character that he is.
Because he's trying to and I quote "Look out for the little guy" Peter knows what it's like to be bully or not have someone to help him with the powers.
It was heavily implied that Uncle Ben died because peter didn't stop the thief
youtu.be/whRtFSrlelk?t=175
>"Look when you can do the things that I can, but you don't, and then he bad things happen. They happen because of you."
Peter is clearly talking about how he didn't stop the thief and the result ended in his uncles death.

>- Juggling his personal and Superhero life, and the drama that it creates.
He was doing this in Homecoming.
Going to Liz's house party, then having to bail to chase after the Van. Making himself look bad when he "Promise" to bring spider-man.
Then again in DC. He went after vulture, ended up getting stuck in a crate and storage facility and missing the triathlon. Resulting in his classmates and friend almost dying on the elevator.
He also fucked up a "Bank" robbery that ended up getting the place he frequented too destroyed and the owner hurt.
He payed for his actions, whether directly or indirectly.
He also got caught trying to bail to spider-man but sent to detention.
Now before you say, "He left and didn't get punished"
He did. The result had him fuck up an FBI sting, almost hurt/kill an entire boat of people, lose tony's trust, his suit and still have more detention.

>>MCU Spider-Man has none of the responsibility, none of the tact, lacks the supporting cast and villains of the comic book version. .
This peter is early in to her career. In Civil War he said it's been like 6 months since he got his power. He less than a year into his career and still learning. His resposiblity is helping the little people as mention earlier.
His supporting cast isn't there nor villains because it's clearly still building.
Ned was his only friend before the movie and he had 0 villains before vulture.

>Hell he lacks his own achievements, he constantly needs help and gear from Tony Stark, wanted to be trained by Tony Stark, wanted to be an Avenger.
Because his achievement have hardly happened yet.
Do you some how expect a 6month start to just have peter already face off with the Green Goblin, Doc Oct, and the Lizard already?
Did you expect the venom shit to already happen.
HE JUST STARTED and Tony's just trying to give him a leg up because he knows his potential and and at the same time mostly just using him to cope for the fact that his father didn't do the same for him by doing that for peter.
Peter wants to be trained by Tony TO be an avenger. Tony Raised his hopes and tossed him aside after civil war, the airport shit hyped him up.
He got to met Cap, fight a giant man, an man with a metal arm.
>Spider-Man is not that. He's never been that, and all its done in the MCU is undermine his core concepts.
There are LITERALLY Multiple version of spider-man across the universe. Just because one doesn't follow the base concept doesn't mean they're undermining his core concept. They're trying to make sure he fits into the current narrative without fucking it all up entirely.
If Spider-man existed year before Iron-man with Nick fury somehow ignoring that for year it would have been an huge plot hole.

>Spider-Man was created to subvert the concept of a teenage sidekick, and now all he is is a teenage sidekick.
He was created for teens at the time to have someone to identify with the teen demand for comics.
If anything he only ended up subverting the concepts as a result.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man#cite_ref-DeFalco_16-0

i HATE when aunt may discovering peter's secret becomes a nuisance. let me have spiderman, dont make me as a viewer have regrets about pete being a hero.

>For example Ben Parker has been toned down considerably to the point where he no longer feels like the driving force behind while Peter Parker is Spider-Man
Because they know everyone and their mother has already seen/ knows about the origin story. No one wants to cast a Uncle Ben a 3rd time just to kill him off and waste everyone's time for the first 10-15 minutes of the movie.

>Then there's Parker's sense of humor, which is less jokes and more "Hey remember that one movie?"
As far as I can remember, that was only once in civil war with Peter mentioning Star Wars.
Even if that's not the only one, he's a teen. That's something they do.

>Peter Parker CONSTANT need for validation, and his odd father figure fixation with Tony Stark just doesn't feel like classic Spider-Man.
Then stop thinking as this as Classic Spider-Man.
Peter just wants to be accepted and useful to his hero like anyone else since he was given the opportunity to.
He wants to show that he can be just as useful as any other hero despite his current age.

>Just because one doesn't follow the base concept doesn't mean they're undermining his core concept
>Just because one is undermining the core concepts of the character doesnt mean they're undermining the core concepts of the character

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I know it's hard to understand user.
Just keep repeating it until you finally understand it

No faggot your dumb shit surface level superficial bullshit doesnt change that the core of this character is Iron Mans pet twink.

>No one wants to cast a Uncle Ben a 3rd time just to kill him off
No one said we need to see him shot again, you fucking dumbass. Way to miss the point.
>Then stop thinking as this as Classic Spider-Man
Did you even bother to finish reading the fucking post? It covers that.

God you're a stupid shill if there ever was one

>Eddie Brock going get redpilled by the Daily Bugle and ordering super male vitality so he can justify his hate for Peter Parker
>it will be a misunderstanding once Peter explains to Brock that J. Jonah Jameson is fake news and then they will team up to fight the Sinister Six
I don't how to feel about this direction Sony's going to take.

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>Uncle Ben
No fuck you let me stop you there. even if they dont show him die a third time the fact remains that that origin should still clearly and presently resonated throughout the fucking story as his core driving motivation. After that lip service bullshit in Cviil War, theres nary a fucking peep ever mentioning Uncle Ben again. Dont give me that "oh Mays having a hard time" bullshit. HER FUCKING HUSBAND DIED.

THATS MORE THAN "A HARD TIME".

>Juggling his personal life
Fucking barely, and it results in no long lasting consequences for anything he fucking does besides Liz moving away and she's still not mad at him.

Skip the decathalon? They win anyway. Bounce on Ned at the party after being hyped up as knowing Spider-Man? Nobody gives a shit by the next scene. BISECTING A FERRY? OH here comes IRON MAN to Deus Ex Machina the problem with bullshit plot magic. Aunt May learning his identity? Oh just a little gag, she doesnt give a shit by the next movie.

>Early in his career
Fuck off, Spider-Man should be Spider-Man as soon as Uncle Ben gets shot, dont you fuck with me on this.

>His achievements havent hardly--
Again fuck you. Spider-Man should achieve shit on his own without being given hand-me-downs from fucking Iron Man. Peter MADE his suit. HE came up with shit like spider tracers and impact webbing. HE designs his own shit outside of a scant few examples because he's an independent rogue superhero. He's not a fucking asskisser, he never was, from day one he never was.

>Even if that's not the only one, he's a teen. That's something they do.
WHO THE FUCK CARES IF ITS REALISTIC IF IT

ISNT

FUCKING

G O O D.

>Then stop thinking as this as Classic Spider-Man
Fuck you faggot thats not a god damn excuse, its a failure of the writers to understand the character.

Spider-Man isnt some bitch boy motherfucker who look for validation and he never fucking was. Not even Ultimate which is always the go-to excuse.

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>No one said we need to see him shot again, you fucking dumbass.
Then why do people constantly complain about the lack of Uncle ben.
Yes, it's been toned down, but peter doesn't need to constantly mention Uncle Ben like he's still just died.

>Did you even bother to finish reading the fucking post? It covers that.
Yes, but that doesn't mean i wanna drive that point home.

>Then why do people constantly complain about the lack of Uncle ben.

THEY'RE COMPLAINING AT THE LACK OF PETER GIVING A SHIT ABOUT UNCLE BEN YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

WHICH HE DOESNT.

ITS ALL TONY STARK. EVERYTHING IS TONY STARK.

>THEY'RE COMPLAINING AT THE LACK OF PETER GIVING A SHIT ABOUT UNCLE BEN YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
NOTHING MENTION SOMEONE DOESN'T MEAN THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT.
I DON'T MENTION MY DEAD FUCKING GRANDMOTHER AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT HER.

Motherfucker it's toned down to the point where HE DOESNT MATTER AT ALL. Not even a name drop, no photo, not anything. Ben Parker is the driving force behind Spider-Man. You sir, are a dumb fuck who doesn't understand the character

>Venom, his character dynamic, mythos, and in some respects even origin (they kept the Sin-Eater backstory), got more respect and a more faithful adaptation in his own movie than Spider-man did in his newest ones

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>>I DON'T MENTION MY DEAD FUCKING GRANDMOTHER AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT HER.
YOU didnt get her fucking killed by being an asshole, user.

Your core motivation as a human being isnt pathological fucking guilt from being a greedy retard with a "fuck you got mine" mentality. THATS Spider-Mans. From day one it was.

user MCU Peter is more concerned about making Tony Stark proud over his dead Uncle who taught him what was in important in life. Fuck you

> HURRR DISNEY ONLY CARES ABOUT PROFITS, THE SONY CORPORATION DIDN'T CARE ABOUT MAKING MONEY WHEN THEY SPENT $200 MILLION DOLLARS ON RAIMI FILMS

sick of raimifags. he made 2 good movies almost 20 years ago. but it's impossible to say anything nice about mcu without being labeled a shill. you fags are the worse spidey "fans." just like you wouldn't shutup about the suit in insomniac's game

I feel robbed now that Tony's dead, we can't get the scenario where Eddie would join the Avenger initiative to protect Peter from Tony's immoral ways

Legitimately how is this hard to understand.

Spider-Mans motivation at its core is extreme, deep, traumatic guilt over being responsible for his uncle, who was essentially his father, dying because he had a "FUCK YOU, I GOT MINE" mentality.

Thats Spider-Man, thats the root of Spider-Man. Without that, unless your goal is to radically reinterpret Spider-Man to an extreme degree for some gimmick like Noir, you really cant have Spider-Man.

Hey dumbass you're being called a shill because you refuse to acknowledge just how deeply flawed the MCU Spider-Man is and how it fundamentally misses the point of Spider-Man and why he's interesting.

You know why those 2 movies made almost 20 years ago are still talked about and fondly remembered and fiercely defended? Because they're good, and understood Spider-Man.

Also Disney is greedy to the point of actively cutting as many corners as possible and creating movie formulas specifically designed to exploit consumer trends, which make for forgettable generic films. Sony is retarded, like deeply intrinsically retarded, but that also means they're willing to take risks and experiment. Raimi Trilogy would NEVER happen at Disney, too dark, too many creative liberties and personality in the filmmaking, too much attention to detail where its unecessary for audience engagement, not enough focus on being safe and consumer friendly. Spider-Verse would NEVER happen at Disney, too creatively experimental, too risky, doesnt fit the pixar mold.

I love this shitpost

the problem with miles is he was peter if you stripped out everything that made peter interesting. lacks the supporting cast, rogues gallery, and personal struggles, always being handed shit, always being lifted up by other people, etc. He was a superficial copy of ultimate peter. He wasnt his own character, not really. not until Spider-Verse (the movie).

MCU peter is exactly that.

They talk about fucking Masturbation in the film. GOTG kind of pushes it more than the rest of the MCU.

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You know if you MCU faggots really wanted a street level hero with power armor you could have asked for Darkhawk

>I struggle to think of another hero who gets into just all out messy brawls as much as Spider-Man does.
Daredevil comes to mind.

>Now it would be weird for any future movie to actually not mention it in some way, or talk about the shit that happened when half the world vanished then came right back years later.
Oh great so it's "Wow, remember that big angry green guy in New York?" and Sokovia references all fucking over again.

>Well if Homecomings retarded dipshit awful logic is true then no he wasnt because apparently MCU New York is a crimeless utopia.
you see spider-man stop crime in Homecoming you retard, it's even in the trailer

>a single bike thief

Damn wow incredible.

>when you can do the things I can and the bad stuff happens, it happens because of you

Once again, see: >unironically thinking I CLAPPED WHEN I UNDERSTOOD THE REFERENCE is the same as a core narrative concept thats present throughout the entire story and drives a characters motivations and arc throughout his story

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No auteur Raimi touch. Part of a massive machine-like film entity instead of just a one-off thing turned massive and helping set/elevate the genre. Tries too hard to be different and misses some of the beats that a good chunk of people who might've been kids during the Raimi era expect and identify with "Spidey." From flicks to comics, a lot of people say it's an incredible time to be a Spider-Man fan but personally I don't feel it. Which is okay. I just liked that somewhat older, low-key Peter written in the 2000s, and I prefer college Spidey to teen.

Standard faggot reponse. The best MCU movies are Winter Soldier, Infinity War and the Guardian movies.

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You're still autistically clinging to a narrative tool that serves no other purpose than pleasuring your nostalgia. Peter is still Peter at his core. You don't need Uncle Ben on screen, but HE NEEDS TO BE THERE BECAUSE HOW CAN HE NOT BE THERE SINCE HE'S ALWAYS THERE I CLAPPED.

Well they can go fuck themselves.

It’d be nice if he mentions his father at any point though. I’ve never gotten the whole blow back against uncle Ben, literally we saw the Wayne’s die as many times in the same amount of time (in film its waaaaaaaay more if you count tv cartoons and video games) and were about to see it at least one more time (it’s going to be directly referenced in the joker and I bet well at least see a picture of the Wayne’s in the Batman) and I’ve never heard anyone bitch about it quite as much as uncle Ben, fuck as is we’ve seen Pete die as many times on screen as we have uncle ben

>caring this much about your inability to have a suspension of disbelief

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How underage?

Sam Raimi has a distinct style while Jon Watts is just a yes man for the Marvel Studios committee

Raimi is more liked in here Yea Forums and it has always been this way.

Raimi has made more than 2 good movies but you would not know.

>all that creative shit

See, I kind of like this stuff myself, I always had this idea in my head that if I did my own run of spider-man, he would start out in this shitty home made outfit with bulky web shooters, but as time went on his costume and webslingers would get better and better until they were basically wrist-mounted 3d printers different points on his suit spinning out different pieces, including flash-forging his own costume around himself like Silk did.

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Easy, understandable,good

Impossible for pro writers and producers

Honestly, I blame Sony more. I think they are desperate for synergy with the MCU to draw in fans from Avengers film into their own little cinematic universe. I wonder if Disney would have developed Spider-man more independently to fill out his own little corner of their movies.

Yeah. As bad as I would nitpick Raimi's films, they still got major beats right like Uncle Ben. With each reboot, they seem to get further and further from that. Each reboot seems worse.

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>He's not a fucking asskisser, he never was, from day one he never was.
This is what bothers me the most about MCU Spidey. I couldn't imagine Spidey from the comics kissing anyone's ass the way he does iron man in the MCU.

He trashes Mysterio and a whole bunch of highly advanced drones in the new movie.

because modern spider-man isn´t spider-man

Consider the following:
Peter's Bugle stunt fails to make any significant money, so when May has heart attack, Parkers can't pay for medical treatment. And then Tony conveniently swoops in and pays that medical bill like a big damn hero.
BAM! Now Peter actually has a damn good reason to aggressively ask Tony to let him suck his dick, because that's what anyone else would do in his place.
But it was 100% Disney's decision to remove mentioning any recently deceased relatives or having Parkers face any financial or health problems, because it would be a downer :'(( according to Watts.

Because you're a nostalgia ridden idiot who doesn't care for source material.
Fucking both of these are just shit fanfiction. I'm going to guess that Raimi's one was driven by his desire to make Peter as amorphous and uninteresting as possible to make him a perfect self-insert. He is not a brilliant scientist who invents his webbing, he can't get back at the horrible skank Mary Jane for emotionally torturing him for 3 movies (what's up with his obsession to her, anyway? unlike the real MJ, she has no redeeming qualities as a person, and she doesn't grow on him as he learns better), he doesn't talk back to JJJ or his landlord. I won't even talk on how it slaughtered public perception of Mary Jane.

What's more important is that Raimi's 'Peter is a meek innocent cinnamonroll' crappy fanfiction validated Disney's one (although, saying tumblr/lj super family fanfics from early 2010s would be more accurate) in the eyes of normies. He is even more pathetic and afraid to call out authority figures. He doesn't even build the gear he currently uses, because learning and inventing is "unrelatable", he didn't do it in Raimi films and was praised just for reading science papers. Tony streamrolled him at their first meeting because that's what would happen with Maguire (and it did in lj fanfictions).

Is this really surprise to anyone that Disneyshit caught up?

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Let's be honest, what they did to Flash is easily the worst thing about these movies

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That's literally the reason I'm going to see it. Mysterio is my mother fucking jam.

I dunno, I grew up and really enjoyed Spiderverse, and Shazam brought me back to being eight years old watching Raimiman for the first time.

I think the MCU just can't focus on making super heroes heroes.

true dat.

>Spider-Man Homecoming but with Uncle Ben in it
>He was out of town working during Civil War which is why we didn't see him
>Spider-Man acts all high and mighty because Tony took him on a Avengers mission
>Peter thinks now that he is now an Avenger he doesn't have to pay too much attention to small crimes
>Ben while watching a news feed about Spider-Man starts talking about Spider-Man not using his powers responsibly because he is focusing on the bigger picture of being an avenger instead of sticking to the little guy.
>Later Spider-Man is on his way to stop the weapon sale happening on the boat and proceeds to ignore a small crime happening nearby
>Cut to Uncle Ben walking down the street, seeing Spider-Man swing by and hearing a cry for help caused by the small crime
>The boat scene happens
>Tony still takes away the suit but the gravity of the situation really sinks in after Peter goes to home only to find the police and a grieving May
>Later in the rubble lifting scene it's actually Ben that inspires Peter to lift the rubble.

Would it work?

I think having both tony and uncle ben as mentors/father figures is redundant. But overall, still far better than what we actually got

Is just so far from the Spider-Man I loved.
Where is the great peter Parker? Is like if they used only the name and make a totally different character. Maybe new guys will like it, and is ok, but to me is very sad. This new version feel 100% soulless

That was their plan all along. To make Miles more relatable.

The only things Peter created were his web fluid, web shooters, spider trackers, mask and costume in the original run (along side situational devices like the anti gravity jammer, for when he fought the vulture). What made it so impressive is that he did all this in his room in his aunts house with a meager budget, the spider bite gave him strength, but all the stuff that he built with little to no help or money stands as a testament to his intelligence and ingenuity.

Durr building shit with everything handed to you vs building shit with little to no resources showing how you're intelligence overcomes your environment is the same thing

Eh it was lame, but at least the movie over all was more interesting than Homecoming. The scenes with Mysterio pretty much shat on all of Homecoming (save for the vulture he was kino)

QUIRKS

To be fair if that had never happened Peter probably would've became a villain. He quite the asshole before he got powers, and he was the worst type of asshole, one that thinks they're the victim. Its easy to see this in his interactions with Flash, sometimes misconstruing Flash's advances as teasing or bullying causing him to needlessly lash back. The only think Teen Peter cared about was himself and his Aunt and Uncle. I could see him turning to less than savory dealings to provide money for them.

>Bumbling Idiot
Gets recognized by a leading scientist despite being a no name college kid.

>Crybaby
Literally only cries at appropriate times, such as the death of his loved ones or friends.

Based, also the latest chapter with KD going in for the headshot cements Vigilantes as being the better of the two.

>Flash
>Now a tech support guy
GAHAHAHAHA

>Going to Liz's house party, then having to bail to chase after the Van. Making himself look bad when he "Promise" to bring spider-man.

>Wah the random girl I just liked might think im lame

As compared to having to support your elderly ant because you decided to be selfish fuck which caused your uncle to die. Thus you have to have a job while most other kids you age get to fuck around and do nothing. Add this on top of an actual romantic interest (whose hinted as coming from an abusive household) and spending countless nights doing hero work.

But then again MCU Spider Baby got his suit taken away, and his favorite subway blown up (no actual deaths mind you) so he definitely had hard ships. yup...

Now it hurts even more, user.

I know most MCU fags dont read the comics. But Spiderman literally fights all the avengers to a standstill the 1st time he meets them, and then blows them off when the task him to capture Hulk ( because he felt the Hulk suffers enough already, and was trying to be alone at that time not causing problems). Add this to countless amount of times where Spiderman calls himself a loner and prefers to work alone. It baffles me how they turned him into such a bitch for the MCU.

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youtu.be/kCd6HLNW3MQ

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I always notice that no one talks about the directors in MCU threads. Like, ever. I guess Disney has to stick to nobodies in the name of budget, huh?

Are you telling me that a over weight, recessive chined, onions filled Pajeet cant pass as Flash...

Easy, he spouts shit like

He also BFTO the X-men, so what?
He's not the Peter 616, he's just an Ultimate new version in a world made up of serial episodes, but less frequent than a comic book per month. Currently the MCu is maybe even more interconnected than the comics because of the lack of time.

>mcu shills fill up another thread with their asshurt
brava

>so what
So its a clearcut fucking example of the writers not understanding his fucking character dipshit

>its just an Ultimate
No it isnt. He was the same in Ultimate, he didnt want to deal with anyones shit and hated Nick Fury treating him like a kid.

The only directors i ever EVER see get mentioned in MCU threads are Taika Waititi, Russo Bros, and Gunn.

Weird how their movies coincidentally also have the most personality and arent purely cookie cutter bullshit.

>Taika Waititi, Russo Bros, and Gunn
Famous in USA only.

Shit eater

I only read hatred and disgust, so I don't think it's written by Mcu fags , but whatever you say.

>MCUfags will eat up any turd Marvel Studios shits
>normal people show hatred and disgust
True.

SEETHING

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I see some about The Peyton Reed and Edgar Wright situation in Ant-Man threads

Still looks soulless compared to the homemade urban suit. Miles' halloween suit in Spiderverse looked better

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It'd be better than what we got and actually emphasizes Peter's duties as a street level hero.

That was so fucking hilarious.

>A bullying popular Jock is too stereotypical
>create a typical "other guy" to create a love triangle Peter and Michelle and call him Brad of all names

>Then Marvel killed him off for good

Feels bad man...

oh yeah I forgot that soon after he moved out she learned his secret identity and high-fived him, never worrying about his safety

I'm not normally one to link to youtube videos but I think this did a decent job explaining why it fell short in so many areas. The biggest crticimsm I had was the absolute lack of consequences for basically everything Peter did.
youtube.com/watch?v=3Wn1uewM-aQ
>The only reason I give this movie a pass is because it made Vulture into a straight up threat with solid motivations for why he does what he does. A bit basic, but it works.

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1. Spider-Man 2
2. Into the Spider-Verse
3. Spider-Man 1
4. Spider-Man 3
5. The Amazing Spider-Man
6. Spider-Man: Homecoming
7. The Amazing Spider-Man 2

I feel pretty good about this list.

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Honestly I think ps4 spidey is better then raimi spidey. As a spiderman character atleast, the movies plot is stil better obviously.

I may have asked in a prior thread, but is the PS4 Spider-Man game worth watching as a movie? I love Insomniac and the idea of an older Peter (even if it is just early twenties) with some experience under his belt, but beyond that I have no idea how his rogues gallery/supporting cast are portrayed. Also the five hour run time is a bit daunting. Also not sure how I feel about the Insomniac suit but that might just be because I need some warming up to it.
youtube.com/watch?v=RiNF2-8TCL4

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t. Disney rat

Try playing the game you chode.

Just play the fucking game. Yes, it's good

This is going to sound pretentious, but the Raimi Spiderman movies were more mature.

Fucking A. Just marathoned all the Spidey movies with some friends because they never watched them and while they considered Spider-Verse to be the best, the Raimi series is immediately right behind.

Don't have a PS4 =(. Currently saving up for a new computer and some home repairs.

Spidey Suit Rankings
1. Spider-Verse Peter
2. Raimi Verse - Red/Blue (especially the suit in 2, the bolder colors were a great addition).
3. Raimi Verse - Black (I know it's a pallette swap but it looks so good in action).
4. Amazing Spider-Man 2 (with regard to live action suits, probably the most comic accurrate. Still not the biggest fan).
5. Amazing Spider-Man (the yellow eyes give me a Spider-Man: Unlimited vibe and I dig it. Also the weird texture gives it a home made look).
6. Spider-Man Homecoming - Regular Suit (I love the color scheme, hate everything else).
7. Spider-Man Homecoming - Home Made Suit (I know it's supposed to look basic, but I legitimately believe he could have done better).
8. Avengers Endgame: Stark Suit (fuck this suit. Completely unnecessary).

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It's because Raimi Spider-Man, as well as original comic book Spider-Man, was poor. Money problems are a very, VERY consistent part of Spider-Man comics throughout the years.
MCU Peter has the world's pre-eminent billionaire as a sugar daddy.
He doesn't have to worry about whether or not he can afford that treatment for Aunt May's inexplicable illness. He's fairly well-liked at school. The specter of Uncle Ben's death doesn't really seem to hang over him. I guess Stark's death will do that now?

That's why he's not as likable. He just doesn't have enough of the world stacked against him.

>DC fag doesn't know the meaning of soul
>complains about a Marvel movie
Every time.

Rating sequels only

Spider-Man 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Far From Home >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DOG SHIT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TASM 2

>Defending Raimi's artful movies means I am a DC fag
Gigaretard. Ignore at once.

Uh no

This goddammit

If you were producing a Spider-Man movie and given free reign, what would you do? I would do a modification of Kraven's Last Hunt. It'd start with an established Spidey that has been doing this for years and has already has a rogues gallery. This ignites Kraven's interest in Spidey. I would hit at Kraven's instability throughout the entire film so as not to have his suicide come out of left field. It would end with Peter having the chance to kill Kraven and he refuses. Afterward Kraven kills himself. Not the greatest plot but then again I'm just spitballing.

>Peter Parker
The late Anton Yelchin
>Mary Jane
Hilary Duff
>Kraven
Javier Bardem or Benicio Del Torro

I think they just misunderstood your post.

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It doesn't feel soulless, it's just badly written stupid gay shit created by marketing committees. It isn't a story, he isn't a character. It's a commercial, he's a brand.

You didn't deny that you're a DC fag.

It's nostalgia. That's it.
Believe me, I was there.
The 2002 movie was "Soulless" compared to the 90s cartoon, which was "soulless" compared to the 60s cartoon, and all of it didn't hold a candle to whichever run of the comic books your dad happened to read.

The Sam Raimi movies seem great now, but back in the day, organic web shooters and Green Ranger Goblin were the biggest affront to Spider Man since The Jackal.
It all comes and goes. In 20 more years, they'll find a whole new way to "completely RUIN" Spider-Man, and kids being born today will call Tom Holland the only good Spider-Man. You learn to live with it.

I would add giant power gaps between 1 & 3 and 3 & Amazing 1.

It's okay, but you clearly don't remember Amazing Spider-Man. Homecoming is better in literally every way

You're not wrong
But also, this is Yea Forums
If we dismissed everything that was "Just a commercial" there'd be two threads at all times, and one of them would just be "Let us talk about comic books again"

>all the good concise arguments that deconstruct all of Homecomings problems are being completely ignored.
>this thread will just repeat again tomorrow as if they didnt exist at all

Really makes you fucking think dont it.

It's shitty, but Disney has to spend big bucks with big special effects so it's whatever.

All these comic brands are commercials now. You want real comics you read the indie shit.

My fucking man.

I'm watching Homecoming right meow, you are absolutely right. I'm still not happy (MJ is an insufferable bitch that I would want nothing to do with in HS), but still waaaaaaaaaay more enjoyable than Amazing Spider-Man. I think I'm letting the fact I saw Amazing Spider-Man at an impressionable age is screwing with rational judgement.

SPider-Man 3 may be the odd man out in the Raimi series, but fuck if he is not a fantastic director with an eye for the most dramatic and impactful shot in a scene. Peter shredding Sandman's face against the side of a train is fucking ruthless.
youtube.com/watch?v=43si9s7ulU8

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The idea of Peter Parker the terminally broke everyman who just happens to be a Genius who just happens to be dating a world famous actress and model has been done literally To Death, TWICE. On multiple titles, and mediums. 616Comics, had One More Day AND Civil War mask off, reconnect it, added Miles, and on and on.if you're complaining about Holland Spider-man you're probably just missing on your own children because those are the only ones who will listen to you, and honestly, there's nothing wrong with that , their your crotch spawn, who am I to tell you what to feed the fruit of your own loins.

BUT! MCU Spider-man has a tremendous following, has been filmed in real life in Queens N.Y. and in famous old Europe locals. I honestly don't know how to commiserate.

>That scene

Raimi is a brilliant director, but gotdam those special effects have not aged well.
And that subway tunnel design is the single most early-2000s thing ever

Iron Man, and Sony's hunger to use MCU characters to help them sell their third iteration of this franchise. It's in the documents regarding the meetings between Sony and Marvel, what Sony wanted most out of the deal was the ability to have MCU characters in their Spider-Man movies, and it seems like primarily, they wanted Iron Man, I guess because he's seen as the MCU's most profitable character. I believe this is the key element driving the presence Stark and his tech has in this franchise, in Peter's motivations, his suit creation, more than any character-related reasons. It's because Sony saw what the MCU had and wanted in.

>Spiderman was always the closest to batman in terms of connection to normal folks
Absolute pleb opinion.

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>Iron Man is dead
>Still a major part of the plot in Homecoming

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The Amazing Spider-Man is better than Spider-Man 3. Homecoming is better than either of them. It's the definition of middling.

I 100% disagree that either of those films hold a candle to Spider-Man 3 but I respect your opinion. In Amazing Spider-Man Peter decides to go on a fucking rampage wherein he beats people to a pulp for revenge against Ben's killer (whom he never finds but whatevs) and Homecoming Peter whom has everything handed to him and is still a whiny bitch. He didn't even have an Uncle Ben scenario so I still don't understand his motivation for being a hero. I don't give two shits about peeps telling me Ben was implied. He wasn't mentioned by name, therefore does not fucking exist.

>In Amazing Spider-Man Peter decides to go on a fucking rampage wherein he beats people to a pulp for revenge against Ben's killer (whom he never finds but whatevs)
I actually agree with this criticism, and have argued it myself. However, I still just find that ASM holds up better as a film than SM3. The studio meddling feels so apparent in Raimi's last film compared to his others, and the story is all over the place. That doesn't mean there's nothing to like in it, I really enjoy the sequence where the Sandman emerges, I just find ASM more easy to watch without cringing. As for Homecoming, it felt like a bit of a breath of fresh air to me even with the problems that come from Stark's involvement, partly because I enjoyed the version of Peter in it, but also because I felt the movies had gone too far beyond street-level, and the movie spent a lot more time close to that feel, which was fun. I acknowledge it's a matter of personal preference as much as anything else.

Id prefer a heavily flawed but enjoyable movie to a middling but kind of boring cookie cutter movie any day.

I think I'm going to give both another watch soon, and see if I agree.