George Perez’s Corporate Clash over Superman: “They Made Me Not Care”

They wanted the sales boost of 52 new #1 issues.

According to Morrison, Diane Nelson wanted to mark the beginning of her reign at DC with a large bump in sales. And Didio/Lee thought up the idea of a reboot to accomplish that goal (which they apparently then hired Bob Harras since he had worked with Jim Lee on Heroes Reborn and X-Men).

Its berganza right? He's a huge creep and isn't even a good editor

But it was rearranging itself again with the whole 52 multiverse. I think things were fucked up since Infinite Crisis.

apparently DC wasn't going to do a reboot when Flashpoint started, they had put books on hold that were supposed to continue after the event but instead changed the entire company halfway through the event for New 52. This is how DC has been operating for 10 years though just changing shit halfway through if they ever get a new idea

>Hiring Bob Harras

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No it's Matt Idelson, he is now at Dynamite, but he quit during the Burbank move.

>But it was rearranging itself again with the whole 52 multiverse
No, the 52 multiverse didn't help the fact that there was continuity baggage like Linda Danvers or Vertigo being non-canon.

And the opposite situation was CoIE. That had been in the planning stages since 1983, and they had plenty of time to work out which properties would be rebooted (Supes, Wondy), and which ones would continue without many changes (like old JLA was still canon, but with Wondy swapped out for Black Canary).
Wolfman wanted to full reboot, but other editors didn't want their books to suddenly be non-canon.

Didio hated Linda Danvers apparently because of some hateboner he had for Peter David and eventually forced Berganza (who had been PAD's editor on all his books to stop giving him work). He even said on Newsarama that Superboy Prime punched her out of reality. And there is a Wordballon interview of him making fun of Berganza when he was trying to defend the Earth Angel Supergirl.

I always considered Vertigo partially canon.

Didio is petty.

and ugly

U jelly

According to Convergence, he didn't.

It was, at least on paper. Or rather, the DC IP's that moved over in 1993 were part of the regular DCU. Them all being Mature Readers books mostly shielded them from having to do event tie ins (outside of Animal Man and Swamp Thing).
John Constantine literally aged out of being in the DCU though, usually decided to be around 2001 since that's when his outside-Hellblazer cameos ended.
It was only after Infinite Crisis that Didio declared then to all be in a different universe. That resulted in Johns having to stop using Hector and Lyta Hall.
The blame doesn't all lie on him though. Berger started preventing cameos from all the IP's she still had around that time (Swamp Thing was only allowed to show his arm during Infinite Crisis). Plus, she's given interviews recently saying things like Gaiman was allowed to write Sandman as a disconnected separate thing, which is BS because he kept using and referencing DC characters all throughout the run.

>hired Bob Harras
What are you talking about? Harras has been in charge for years, even before the reboot

Wait, so everything Vertigo before 1993 was part of the regular DCU?

Vertigo didn't exist before 1993, so yes.

Kind of. 90s vertigo operated on a system where it wasn't "officially" part of the DCU, but most of it didn't contradict anything in it. So if you wanted to believe it was in there, you could.

Superman books have been editorial mediocrity since Byrne left.

I am retarded so explain me again, what was and what was not part of the regular DCU? Doom Patrol, Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, Shade the Changing Man, Preacher, Books of Magic?

Further proof that Marvel is BASED.

Also, did Constantine existed before Hellblazer?

> Berger started preventing cameos from all the IP's she still had around that time
What prompted that anyways? It seems like a weird decision to make.

Is there any particular category of books hes editing there, or are they unrelated?

yes, he first showed up in Swamp Thing

Probably she thought something akin to
>Superheroes are campy and Vertigo is serious and all that stuff so no cameos

Berger is infamous for her disdain of superheroes.

All of those except for Preacher. Every title that existed pre-1993.
Books of Magic was a sort of/yes/no.
The miniseries was 100%, but the ongoing didn't really get to reference outside cape books.
Zatanna and a few other minor magic characters appeared in the ongoing though.
Shade, the Changing Man was technically in a parallel Earth according to an editor, but that didn't mesh with how DC set up their multiverse after CoIE, and was never actually a plot point.
After 1993 when Vertigo started, it was a coin flip. Sandman Mystery Theatre was canon to Starman, but later JSA stories sort of decanonized it. Madame Xanadu took place in the DCU.

BASED BERGER!

*Carlin
Byrne wasn't an editor

Why would you ever think Preacher was canon to the DCU?

Not everything needs to fit into some autistic fictional cosmology. Shade was explicitly not canon to the cape corner, end of story.

>Further proof that Marvel is BASED.

Marvel did not have any continuity to speak of since 1994.

Shade was its own thing, that's it.

This, Batwoman had been announced for awhile prior to the New 52, but then there was nothing about it until the reboot. JH Williams had to change things a bit to fit the new continuity, like this page with figures removed.

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>caring about capeshit
>2019
That's a cringe for me

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>come into thread
>"I don't care lol"
Cool

Would you trust Didio not to fuck them up?

Didio wasn't in charge back then

and somehow it perfectly transleted into the dc movies as well

>stop having opinions
Okay retard

Who are you quoting?

You got nothing to say beyond "herp derp I don't like this thing you're discussing".
What do you want us to say? Congrats?

Is any of this really a surprise though? Capeshit is done by committee, you've got editors and executives alike telling you what to write so that the brand remains marketable and profitable, and even if you dance to their tune the next writer is going to toss out what you did anyway because they're a slightly bigger name.

No writer with half a brain is going to waste their effort on such a thing, much less get invested.

Part of the New 52 was unifying the versions of the characters across all forms of media. It’s why DC animated movie department went to shit, they all generally had to use the pseudo-anime Young Justice style plus New 52 outfits with few exceptions like the Dark Knight Returns or Timm movies.

>Shade was explicitly not canon to the cape corner, end of story.
Why did it have a young Constantine in Salem for an arc?

Didio is fucking weird when it comes to characters he doesn't like.

It's like if a Pepsi exec wanted to end Diet 7up not because of how it was received by consumers, but specifically because he himself didn't enjoy the taste.

Here's an advertisement for Batwoman back in around 2010.

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What is there to "discuss?" It's a crybaby boomer writer bitching about how a company that's been the epitome of editorial incompetence for decades is once again editorially incompetent.

You fags just make these threads so you can all go LOOK HE HATES DC TOO JUST LIKE US like it even fucking matters
Have sex lose weight go outside

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Didio didn't hate Linda, he hated how convoluted Supergirl gotten.

But she was also George Perez's editor on Wonder Woman.

Oh, so you're just a DC fanboy pretending to hate capeshit, gotcha

You got nothing to say beyond "herp derp I don't like this thing you're discussing".
What do you want us to say? Congrats?

You replied to me but didn't answer my question

That's a pretty bad analogy. Didio tends to take a very pragmatic, and to some extent, objective look at characters and when he sees something that doesn't really do anything beyond existing for the sake of existing (like Nightwing pre-Morrison's Batman run or Aquaman) he takes them out of circulation by shelving them in limbo until someone can come up with a good pitch for bringing them back.

Not only does that build interest in seeing the characters again, it prevents diluting their star power when every two years some does a radical revamp that doesn't stick. Fans might get pissy but from a publishing pov it makes sense. Cassandra Cain was in limbo for years because she became a toxic cluster fuck so it made sense to put the character on hiatus rather than spending time and effort trying to retcon and fix the damage without a sound plan in place.

Of course he doesn't always get it right but nobody is perfect.

What's your point? She also worked on Levitz's LOSH. It was a job. Once she had a modicum at power and set up Vertigo, she basically tried to get away from superheroes. It's also why Axel Alonso wasn't too keen on them either since he had started out at Vertigo as one of her underlings.

>Cassandra Cain was in limbo for years because she became a toxic cluster fuck so it made sense to put the character on hiatus rather than spending time and effort trying to retcon and fix the damage without a sound plan in place.
Because of Didio meddling. Look at Wally West now. If his name is toxic, it is because of Didio.

>Cassandra Cain was in limbo for years because she became a toxic cluster fuck

Except he was the one responsible for making her a toxic mess in the first place. We know that many of the ideas from One Year Later originated from him (and that includes making Cassandra Cain evil).

>Nightwing pre-Morrison's Batman
>Aquaman
>Cassandra Cain

All of these examples are characters he managed to screw up. The Nightwing book was a chinese fire drill until Tomasi became writer because they nixed the plans at the last minute for Nightwing dying and Jason Todd becoming the new Nightwing. Aquaman got killed off in his own book which was cancelled shortly after and basically had to be rebooted ala New 52 to fix the property. And Batgirl was turned into a mess because apparently he didn't like her and wanted to restore Barbara Gordon as Batgirl.

I wouldn't call Wally toxic. If anything there's finally something to concretely differentiate him from Barry.

They turned him into a villain. He basically got Cassandra Cained after Johns went through the effort to bring him back.

>ur a DC fan
>not an argument XD
Sure is reddit in here

Barry didn't need to come back in the first place

Aquaman got cancelled because nobody gave a fuck about Aquaman anymore, to a point where they tried briefly to replace him with a new OC under Busiek. Then they kept him in limbo for years until Johns' reboot made him a more successful character that gave us a billion dollar movie adaptation.

Granted, Nightwing had some issues when the kill Dick decision was reversed but Didio was right that Dick at the time was a character not really doing anything special despite having his own ongoing book for over hundred issues. His book existed basically as an extra bat-book for crossovers to use. Nobody was excited to read his ongoing. Nobody held him as important character to be published outside of pure nostalgia.

You keep replying to me but you still haven't answered my question

It's not that simple. Warner and Disney have many levels of management, they have departments solely dedicated to managing the minutia of the DC/Marvel brands, including the comics. That's the entire problem of signing up with a big corporation, no matter what level you're on, there's some suit looking over your shoulder. These companies didn't get so massive just letting the departments run themselves.

Then cancel Dick's book and just keep him in the Outsiders or Titans or whatever, why go for the nuclear option right away? That's just lazy.

>Aquaman got cancelled because nobody gave a fuck about Aquaman anymore, to a point where they tried briefly to replace him with a new OC under Busiek.

Busiek's idea was an Aquaman book as a sword and fantasy underwater setting. Didio's contribution was making the main character an original character instead of Arthur. And fans hated it. Not to mention then Didio pulls Busiek off the book after 7-9 issues to work on Trinity and puts in a new guy who had almost no experience with comics and he kills off the original. Of course the book gets cancelled and on top of that Aquaman is now dead. It's an absolute dumpster fire and just really an example of terrible management skills on Didio's end.

Because it doesn't solve the problem of Nightwing being a meh character. That's why Jason taking over the mantle was the initial plan. It would have shaken things up, been controversial and exciting. But as it turned out, it took Morrison turning him into Batman to really fix him. Same way Grayson rejuvenated him after a poor performance in New 52.

>Because it doesn't solve the problem of Nightwing being a meh character.

That's just an opinion. Nightwing had by then a 100+ issue run and was the leader in Outsiders. The readers clearly didn't share the opinion he was meh. That's just an opinion of Didio's (and yours) that the tried to impose on others, which is basically his entire reign in a nutshell.

Execs wanted a jump in sales, and a few smaller people (Didio, Lee) had been hankering to wipe out things they didn't like.

>in a new guy who had almost no experience with comics and he kills off the original.
Almost no experience with comics, but has a shit load of fantasy novels.

Why not? Jay Garrick came back.

Jay Garrick didn't die in the first place. Barry died in COIE where he sacrificed his life to stop the Anti-Monitor's plans.

>That's just an opinion
The right one. nightwing is meh and you can write a whole paper about how Dick os a totally different character in the comic than the one the fans have in their heads.

And how old was CoIE by the time Final crisis came around? I'm with Didio in thinking this kind of continuity becomes nothing but baggage.

Because you're uncreative?

How much of your favorite character's "continuity" do you actually remember?

Probably more than you

Nostalgia sells. You can see it in everything. From movies, to TV shows, to games, to cartoons, to comics. Doing away with continuity is a mistake. Specially when what you've to substitute it is... shitty.

Based Didio.

>during that period was mostly with the editor.
Basically what I’ve heard as well. Didn’t the Superbooks go through something like 10 writers in 8 years? This guy was fucking garbage at his job. Was it that same guy who rejected the Superman 2000 pitch?

You're being needlessly aggressive here.
I'm not saying kill all continuity but look at Linda Danvers again; all that bullshit with Matrix is baggage for her. I don't agree with Didio that we should get rid of Linda herself but any outsider hearing that Supergirl's origin would write her off as a convoluted hack work.

Sort of like what happened with Star Wars under Disney

No what Dido realized was that the edict that Clark had to be the sole survivor of Krypton had to lead some really retarded work around like Supergirl being a fucking angel and Zod being an Earthling from some Slavic state. He’s the one who pushed for Kara Zor-El to be made canon again.

>Was it that same guy who rejected the Superman 2000 pitch?

No, it was a higher-up who rejected the Superman 2000 pitch. Rumors were either Carlin or Levitz.

Except Linda Danvers had already been and done, and we still had Kara Zor El for a while before the reboot. What does MatrixSupergirl have to do with the fact that Flashpoint/reboot was a mistake?

Didio is partially responsible for a lot of the fuck ups though. Take Wally West: It was Didio who told King to use him in HiC.

Reminder that Dan Didio is responsible for BEAST WARS, where he told the writers and animators to purposely forget the previous show and make the plot darker.

Not to mention forcing James Robinson to undo pretty much everything Greg Rucka had done to salvage Wonder Woman post-Rebirth.

Rucka's WW sucked anyway.

It still salvaged her in terms of characterization and lore.

>Because it doesn't solve the problem of Nightwing being a meh character
How is that relevant to my point? You can shelf a character without killing them off you dumbass

I would argue that by 2011 The DC universe was a mess, mainly from the fact that DC was seemingly ignoring lot of their continuity. A lot of the 70s, 80s, and anything in the 90s that wasn't connected to young justice was being ignored.

What a goddamn mistake that was. I’ve read the pitch, only thing I didn’t love was the proto-OMD Mxy storyline where they got rid of the Supermarriage so they could go back to the love triangle bullshit. If you’re going to get rid of the marriage don’t fucking go back to that lame ass shit, go have him fuck Lori or Lana for a while.

But man the ideas they had for revamping Supes’ Rogues sound fucking awesome. Sucks we never got it.

He is right about the Supergirl thing because the "sole survivor of Krypton" restriction is a retarded one. You don't want to have like half of Krypton survive but you don't need to do mental gymnastics just to have Superman be the only Kryptonian.

The Barry Allen thing is not comparable because a creative writer can be straightforward about it by focusing on Flash as a legacy title.

Jay is the first Flash
Barry is the second, dies in a heroic act
Wally becomes the third Flash.

That's not anywhere near "Supergirl is a simulacrum of a pocket universe's Lana Lang who fused with Linda Danvers and became an Earth-Born Angel".

He didn’t force Robinson to do anything, they told him up front they wanted to address the Jason shit and Robinson agreed. He actually likes the little shit, Robinson talked about wanting to do a Jason series and bitched about WW fans complaining about his shit run. He doesn’t deserve any sympathy imo.

Don't forget killing the Kents.

James Robinson said that Didio gave him Wonder Woman to write and purposely told him to address the Jason stuff and to use Darkseid/Grail. He didn't know shit about it and had to pretty much run the thing as fast as he could.

IIRC Berganza was on the utter shitshow that was the Young Justice line during New52. Most of those books were either cancelled, had creators walk or both.

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Meh I don’t really have a problem with the Kents being dead. I’m not a comfyfag.

John Ostrander repeatedly had Vertigo characters like Lucien, Lucifer and Neil Gaiman show up in Spectre and Suicide Squad, and Alan Moore's Swamp Thing has whole arcs devoted to Swampy in Gotham or on Rann. The line was a lot vaguer.

There were like 3 filler writers between Rucka and Robinson how fucking long could it have taken him to read Darkseid War?

Alan Moore's Swamp Thing was a DC comic, Vertigo didn't exist back then

>“And that was, for me, the nadir of my career, because for the first time working in the industry, I didn’t care. They made me not care. And I don’t blame the people at DC for it — they’re following the dictates of Warner that now has a much more hands-on policy.”

Good lord

The trouble is that with that mindset you wind up gutting Superman's supporting cast pretty quickly.
>Can't use Lois because Clark has to be a single twenty-something who has affairs
>Can't use the Kents because they're too comfy
>Can't use Jimmy because he's lame
So either Superman winds up a weird alien asshole who can't open up to ordinary people or you have to create a bunch of OCs to act as a replacement soundboard.

They only killed Jonathan and that was something Johns did anyway.

They were going to kill both because they hated the Kents always being present in Superman's life.

>Can't use Lois because Clark has to be a single twenty-something who has affairs
I don't see how that would follow, Lois would be one of those affairs.

user, these people love these bland new superhero comics where the protagonist is in costume 99% of the time and has no supporting cast whatsoever other than maybe a love interest and a dumb friend or something

>So either Superman winds up a weird alien asshole who can't open up to ordinary people
Like the New 52 Superman?

Peter David's Supergirl is cool you retard.

He did open up to Jimmy.

Millar is the only one I know for certain who would've gone with having both Kents die; Morrison I have no idea why he would do that for New 52 on account that his All Star Superman had Ma Kent alive. Waid and Peyer I have no idea what their thoughts are.

Yeah, years after when Johns did a small arc where he purposely ignored a lot of things from the reboot.

It's also convoluted despite how good it is. That's not entirely PAD's fault. Some of it is on Byrne, and all of it is on the dumb "Superman is the last remaining Kryptonian" edict.

Good to see someone here with a common sense and not a raging manchild.

Probably Levitz. Millar had a huge problem with the guy even after he left DC/Wildstorm And I think Busiek has said Carlin wasn't the one who rejected it.

He is the one responsible for Beast Machines, the sequel to BW, which a lot of people hate to this day.

Uh what?

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That's his father dying, which drove him to become a distant, broody, and brash person later on.

You ever hear the expression "give them an inch and they'll take a mile"?
By 2001 Berger only had a handful of her DC IP's left.
>The Sandman (ended in 1996, three years after Vertigo started), but only as spin-offs
>Swamp Thing (volume two had been cancelled, and the third volume about Tefe was a complete critical and financial bomb)
>Hellblazer, continuing to run almost unabated (outside of Ellis quitting the title)
Meanwhile,
>Shade, the Changing Man ended in 1997 and was pretty much absent in comic media until Peter Milligan wrote Hellblazer a decade later)
>Animal Man was cancelled in 1996. He would get absorbed back into regular DC continuity, and appear in Infinite Crisis and 52.
>Doom Patrol (vol 2) was cancelled back in 1995. A third, fourth, and fifth volumes would continue under the regular DC banner.

Since she was pretty much out of the IP's she started with, she started trading characters around with Didio. Deadman got swapped for Jonah Hex (which led to a fantastic series for Hex, and a terrible one for Deadman). Blocking Swamp Thing in 2006 was one last ditch to hold on to the character.
In the conclusion to Brightest Day in late 2010, a new version of Swamp Thing and Constantine were introduced to the DCU. Then DC heavily advertised the "debut of Death of the Endless" in the DCU in 2010. This ignored that she had started off as being in the DCU. One year later, all DC IP's would get stripped from Vertigo, and the last book Berger would be directly editing for them was Dial H in the New 52 reboot.

It was just Shea Fontana, and she only wrote five issues

Millar's problems with Levitz stem mainly from the censorship on The Authority, but if the Superman 2000 pitch rejection was also done by him, then I could definitely see why Millar was taking nasty shots at him, even though it's the wrong move to do.

Carlin was also another name I saw tossed around connected with the rejection of the pitch; it's not far off from the way he would be depicted by Ted McKeever in that autobio comic (where he tells McKeever that he wouldn't be working on the main Superman titles). But if Busiek says it wasn't Carlin, then I could believe it isn't Carlin. Where'd Busiek say that?

The fact that the guy phrases it as "Kill Slo-bo or I will" or that he deems characters toxic after actively sabotaging them is the problem.

Robin's entire series was consistently better than Nightwing's

that's all Johns' fault

Nope. Robinson is on record saying that Didio was the one that hired him and told him what to write.

Broody?

I get that Johns is the Le epic boogeyman around here but he didn’t hire Robinson. Johns should’ve handled Jason himself like he’s handling the Thee Jokers shit though.

>distant, broody, and brash person later on.
When his parents were still alive in Post-Crisis Superman was guilty of all three of those though. But Yea Forums doesn’t actually read comics so I’m not surprised that the casual here reiterate the meme that Supes can only be smiles and sunshine.

>where he tells McKeever that he wouldn't be working on the main Superman titles

He had good reason to. McKeever was good at his indie/Vertigo/Elseworlds stuff but hated capeshit and basically wanted to get on mainstream titles to destroy them. He used to hang around in my LCS and talk about all the shit he wanted to do and at one point he was invited to pitch for Captain America and told us how he was going to have the President fire Steve (he didn't read comics so he thought his idea was groundbreaking) and Steve was going to TATTOO a giant 'A' on his forehead and that the real Red Skull had been dead for years and the current one had been Bucky all along.

So yeah...keeping Teddy away from standard capeshit was actually good editing.

He also outed Rachel Pollack too

Wasn't he the one who had Wonder Dog kill Marvin and crippled Wendy?

> Second Azrael wiped from New 52.
> Morrison says fuck you unwipes him in Batman Inc Vol. 2.

HA!

> Renee and Huntress are still canon at that point.

Damn New 52!!

That's Sean McKeever

>Cassandra Cain was in limbo for years because she became a toxic cluster fuck so it made sense to put the character on hiatus rather than spending time and effort trying to retcon and fix the damage without a sound plan in place

And hey Dan was to blame for all of that, not the fans.

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Except the point about that scene is that McKeever didn't even bring up Superman, Carlin came in and suddenly said that to him.

Remember that the four who pitched Superman 2000 were told by the pitch-rejector that they wouldn't be allowed to work on the main books. I could see that fitting in with Carlin if you go by the dialogue in McKeever's comic. But if Busiek claimed that Carlin wasn't the one who rejected it, I need to find where Busiek said that.

Retard.

I like that you can see it both in the casuals who love Superman and the ones who hate him.

Neither does all the X-Men that get brought back but nobody complains when that happens.

>The why did they rebooted in the first place?

Warner Bros. wanted to shut down DC Comics. Jim Lee went to the WB executives and offered to reboot instead of shutting down the publisher outright. Somehow Lee convinced WB that rebooting would fix their sales issues. It didn't (for more than a few months), which is why they eventually did Rebirth.

Fuck WB greedy jackasses, all they've done is fuck DC over.

Actually, if you are thinking about the author from Suicide Squad, that was actually Grant Morrison, not Neil Gaiman

Jason shouldn't exist. The whole idea was to give Diana a long lost twin who lived in the outside world. Like, she's right there, Geoff, you absolute retard.

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Making Donna Diana's kid sister or orphan she rescued would solve all of the issues with her character.

DC has a fetish for making things unnecessarily complicated.

That's more Johns trying to create OCs that he can collect royalties from.

It was right there. Johns had the perfect opportunity to let Donna get away from her fucked continuity and just be her own character, and he pissed it all away for the sake of his fuckawful OC that everyone hates.

Fuck, even the Titans TV show went "Fuck it" and just went with the orphan origin. At this rate, the only way I'm gonna get some comfy sisterly adventures is if Diana guest stars on that show.

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at this point they can only go full-back to adopted orphan or full-on Cosmic Anomaly that shouldn't exists and the universe keeps changing to try to make her fit in

I don't know who this is because I'm not a DC reader, but I really like her cosmic background dress, so I'm saving these pics.

Ostrander run on The Spectre also had the American Scream.

>t. Didiot

I liked her costume from when she briefly took over as Wonder Woman

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For real. Either leave or lean into it. Either way, everyone is sick of this origins bullshit and just wants Donna to be the team mom already.

Personally, I'd go with anomaly so she can have wacky cosmic adventures.

Donna Troy, Wonder Woman's sister and member of the Titans. If you decide to read up on her, strap the fuck in.

>Warner Bros. wanted to shut down DC Comics.
>Warner bros. Wanted to shut down a big money maker because ???

That's pretty nice, actually. Never really been a fan of WW's costume, but the starry background makes it look awesome.
Oh I see. From what I gather there's some continuity fuckery, not surprised considering it's DC and it's one of the reasons why I haven't really devoted time to it, but somehow I'm curious anyway.

Because they probably thought they could survive from licensing the characters out

Even though they fucked up the movies multiple times

>Personally, I'd go with anomaly so she can have wacky cosmic adventures.
most important: it leaves her open to be used in any scenario!

Just have so she doesn't change, only her Secret Origins do, but she has memories only starting with her first meeting with the Titans

Over time, she just got desentitized, so she just rolls with it.

More like DCEU Supes.

>A new Constantine
That was stupid as fuck.

> But if Busiek says it wasn't Carlin, then I could believe it isn't Carlin. Where'd Busiek say that?

CBR before the wipe.

And here is a article that claims it was Levitz:

medium.com/@bobproehl/men-of-steel-the-superman-2000-proposal-9044a49ba521

>Unfortunately, DC Publisher Paul Levitz nixed the idea. Apparently it was company policy at the time not to give top talent slots on Superman or Batman ongoing titles, for fear they’d have the clout to make actual changes to the status quo. Morrison says he was told “Do you honestly believe DC will ever give you the keys to the family car?”, and Waid claims he was told he’d never write Superman.

He loved to talk shit about Pollack, didn't he?

None of the X-Men died saving the multiverse on Secret Wars.

>Warner Bros. wanted to shut down DC Comics
That's too stupid to be true.

>Cassandra Cain was in limbo for years because she became a toxic cluster fuck so it made sense to put the character on hiatus rather than spending time and effort trying to retcon and fix the damage without a sound plan in place
Did he do this with Hawkman too?

If it sounds too stupid to be true then it probably is true.

WB sucks cock

I don't like doing this because it usually leads to people jumping to conclusions due to the rumor mills, but remember what people said about Vertigo when the news first broke out?

>Apparently it was company policy at the time not to give top talent slots on Superman or Batman ongoing titles, for fear they’d have the clout to make actual changes to the status quo
That connects with what Seagle said in "It's a Bird..." and why his attempt to do a lasting addition (Cir-El) got tossed at the end of his tenure

>remember what people said about Vertigo when the news first broke out?
Vettigo is dead?

Yep. theverge.com/2019/6/21/18701446/dc-comics-vertigo-shutting-down-reorganization-dc-kids-black-label

Oh fuck, I miss Cir-El, she had a nice booty.

Hawkman didn't go full villain. But he did start stirring up shit in the JLA in JSA. In the JLA, he and Batman feuded over the brainwashing in Identity Crisis. He left the League and started, acted the goddamn fool as JSA's Chairman and left.

Yes, do you live under a boulder?

Same deal with Loeb and his Return to Krypton idea. Editorial then retconned the whole thing.

Kind of, I am not american.

Yes but they are basically using the Black Label now to do more indie-ish titles.

To be fair I have been hearing that since new 52.

...yes it was. Him having hair threw me there.

Buckle up buttercup...

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Should I blame Didio for letting KSD write the new Aquaman ongoing after Abnett?

>What are you talking about? Harras has been in charge for years, even before the reboot

No Harras was announced as EiC of DC around September 2010, which was little less than a year before New 52 came out. So yes he was hired by DC and Lee/Didio to oversee the reboot.

>So yes he was hired by DC and Lee/Didio to oversee the reboot.
He was working for Lee under Wildstorm since 2001, and was working in the collected editions department until 2010

>was working in the collected editions department until 2010

I am aware of that (he also did a bunch of writing jobs for DC). I just don't think it's relevant.

He and Lee are the co-publishers. Lee is also the CCO.
Harras is the EiC, so any of those three

Ostrander had a fantastic editor.
Dan Raspler edited a bunch of comics from the 1980s-1990s, and most of them were fantastic.
He did not like, however, like that DC was segregating their comics via the Mature Readers ratings. When he helped launch The Spectre, he pushed for it to be published under the regular banner for all customers. He didn't like the Mature Readers banners, but did work well with the editors who were editing those books.
He edited The Demon right around the same time that Gaiman was doing his Season of Mists story, and made sure that the status of Hell remained consistent.
And like you said, he did the same thing with The Spectre a couple years later. One standout is that he coordinated a brief appearance of Constantine in late 1993 (1994 cover date). This was after Vertigo had launched and Hellblazer had moved over. In The Spectre, John is useless in the streets of New York City.
Why is John in NYC? Because Ennis had him locked in a trap laid by Papa Midnite in that city, and Raspler coordinated with Stuart Moore on Hellblazer, so everything fit together.
Current writer Peter Tomasi was Raspler's assistant

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Linda was such a qt. Fuck. I should re-read the issues she shows up in.

>He left the League and started, acted the goddamn fool as JSA's Chairman and left.
Got any examples? Hawkman's belligerence is always amusing.

God I love Donna.

Yeah, Batwoman got fucked. Her arc with her sister bored me to tears despite the art, though. The best Batwoman comic I read was the girl version of World's Finest where she and Wonder Woman hunted some occult shit. And then I think it wrapped right back around to Kate's sister and I could not be assed.

1) Raspler apparently got his start as an editor under Denny O'Neil and was the editor on "A Lonely Place of Dying".

>Current writer Peter Tomasi was Raspler's assistant

2) And Steve Wacker was Tomasi's assistant. And Sana Amanat (the Ms Marvel editor) was Wacker's assistant at Marvel. It's really crazy how these editorial lineages go.

Looking at Raspler's work history, looks like he got purged around 2004. His last bit of work was Superman: Birthright

February 2003

animesuperhero.com/forums/threads/dc-fires-editors-raspler-helfer-and-dontanville.3265171/

>DC has confirmed for Newsarama that Group Editor Dan Raspler, Andy Helfer and Morgan Dontanville have been fired by DC. Raspler was the JLA Group Editor, Helfer was also a Group Editor and most recently edited Titans, and Dontanville was Batman group Editor Bob Schreck’s assistant. The firings will cause a cascade of changed internally at DC with regard to Mike Carlin and Dan DiDio.

>Carlin, who has been DC’s VP – Executive Editor for the past few years, will step down from the role and resume work as a regular Group Editor in the newly created role of Senior Group Editor – DC Universe, taking on the books formerly edited by Raspler (JLA, Aquaman, Superman: Birthright, and Formerly Known as the Justice League) in addition to his current projects, including SHAZAM! with Jeff Smith. DiDio will retain his title of VP – Editorial, while adding many of Carlin’s former duties to his current list.

>Raspler began work at Marvel in the ‘80s, and came to DC under Denny O’Neil as an assistant editor. Since then, Raspler has been a fixture in the DC credit boxes and moved through the Batman and Superman titles as an assistant editor, before becoming a full editor on books such as Demon, Hitman, Lobo, Suicide Squad, The Power of Shazam, Spectre, Kingdom Come, The Kingdom and eventually, virtually all things JLA.

Man, Helfer was pretty good too.
Didio's promoted, Carlin demoted, and the old guard fired.
Piranha/Paradox Press were neat experiments in early alternative (for a Big Two at least) comics

>Sana Amanat
God I hate her.

>And fans hated it

Where as Yea Forums loved Aquaconan.

Killing him in a giant event was intended to make his death be a big deal and reason why Jason turns back into a semi-good guy after being the Red Hood. They didn't just want Dick dead, they wanted someone else take his place so Nightwing wouldn't just be Robin but older. It'd be Robin gone bad who then gets redeemed.

>It still salvaged her in terms of characterization and lore.

Nah. All it did was give Rucka an opportunity to make his headcanon fanfic part of official continuity.

>Can't use Jimmy because he's lame

Jimmy is fucking lame. People always whine about how Jimmy is Superman's bff, but he hasn't really had any type of real relevance in stories in that function as a supporting cast member for something like twenty fucking years. The only reason he sticks around is because he's so rooted into people's minds as "important" because he's part of the furniture around Superman.

Even before Clark married Lois Jimmy had become semi-superfluous character who was mainly used in his own little subplots that didn't revolve around hanging with Superman and having meaningful interactions, it was about Jimmy getting into trouble and recycling the old "signal watch rescue" trope, which is kinda silly way to use someone who's supposedly there to serve as a grounding connection to humanity. Yet people refuse to admit this because of their nostalgia.

Also worth noting, look at Jimmy's new upcoming book: the focus is again on Jimmy getting into weird adventures by himself, it's not about teaming up with Superman and doing adventures together.

Silver age jimmy was awesome you fag

>Even before Clark married Lois Jimmy had become semi-superfluous character who was mainly used in his own little subplots that didn't revolve around hanging with Superman and having meaningful interactions, it was about Jimmy getting into trouble and recycling the old "signal watch rescue" trope, which is kinda silly way to use someone who's supposedly there to serve as a grounding connection to humanity. Yet people refuse to admit this because of their nostalgia.
There wasn't too much Jimmy use in Post-Crisis Supes as being Superman's Pal. In fact, he hid away the watch after Superman infected him (via the Eradicator) with some virus that caused him to stretch like Elongated Man.
Following that, Jimmy lost his job at the DP and was pretty much homeless for months. His role in the four Superbooks for like half a year was having a new job each appearance and losing it by the end of the issue

Who was blaming the fans? The editorial fucked up with Cass, their "fix" mini made things worse, so they decided it was better to just shelve her for the time being andsee if Steph would work better as a replacement, but of course she bombed also so then they brought Babs back as Batgirl in New 52 which was entirely about trying to streamline things and Cass didn't really work in that context.

>Warner bros. Wanted to shut down a big money maker

Except the comic publishing isn't a big money maker. They make more money from licensing and adaptations. Comics are basically just IP farms now.

I remember most of the 70s/80s Spidey and X-men pretty well, as well as most of the Man of Steel (byrne) era Superman. Spiderman especially was more than just a typical superhero book where good guy fought bad guy, it was a complete soap opera where Pete had to deal with things like MJ coming up his house while Felicia was nursing him after he fought all night in a gang war, MJ got so mad she started insulting Felicias hairdo. Or that time MJ had a rich guy stalker that knocked her out of the model business, so they had to go back to living with aunt May, who at one point found their stash of nude photos/videos of each other.

Amazing Spider-man is perhaps the only single comic book out there that STILL has a continuity, even if it is ragged and tattered and keeps getting reverted into the status quo of Pete being a nobody who can barely pay the rent. X-men and Avengers have -some- continuity but they are on the other spectrum, they keep changing their entire status quo after every two years on average (plus they had Bendis rampaging there too).

DC was fine after CoIE, but since the 00s they just reboot or retcon everything every five to ten years. There's no goddamn point in reading anything but the shorter miniseries they do, which exist outside the editorial mandates. All of them have a different continuity anyway.

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>‘follow the dictates of what we have in mind, put your name on it,’
All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.

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>Diane Nelson wanted to mark the beginning of her reign at DC with a large bump in sales.
Bike-shedding has been a known issue in large corporations for decades:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality

Literally what.

Also, shes married and has a kid and all kinds of shit but keeps being on a team called the Teen Titans. Is that weird to anyone else?