I genuinely don't get it

this is also overlooking the fact that a similar percentage of Manga is the exact same formula of;
>kid is generally unpopular
>kid has small core of friends
>kid turns out to be really skilled in one particular area
>uses mastery of this to beat the big bad

naruto is a masterpiece compared to regular capeshit. It's not even debatable. if you are a good writer, you don't end up at marvel or DC.

Do you even know what weeaboo means?
He's using fucking Naruto of all thing to make a point about quality writing and fast paced story.

Manga is a much bigger industry with much more variety. It's not even a competition.

>Do you even know what weeaboo means?
I'm one of the last few people who do.

>He's using fucking Naruto of all thing to make a point about quality writing and fast paced story.
So?

>I'm one of the last few people who do.
I doubt it.

>So?
He's a fucking retard.

>I doubt it.
Whatever. Doesn't change facts.

>He's a fucking retard.
Even if he's a retard, how does that make him a weeb? Were retards in the 15th century weebs too?

>15th century
the fuck you talking about

OP is taking his obession with a beyond mediocre manga series that lasted far longer than it had any right to to justify Manga being better than Western comics, he is literally a dictionary definition weaboo

Attached: weebshit.png (641x225, 19K)

Comic Book writers and artists are simply incapable of telling a serialized narrative, or rolling with Editorial deadline.

I wasn't the one calling him a weeaboo, and the point about him using Naruto as an example of good writing has nothing to do with it.
Maybe I should've made that clearer.

Attached: IMG_7964.png (3079x994, 3.63M)

>the fuck you talking about
The 15th century. You do know what that was, right?

>OP is taking his obession with a beyond mediocre manga series that lasted far longer than it had any right to to justify Manga being better than Western comics, he is literally a dictionary definition weaboo
If he were a weeaboo then he wouldn't be reading American comics.

>If he were a weeaboo then he wouldn't be reading American comics.
That's not how it works.

>If I like one thing I physically cannot even look at the other
guess I'm going to have to choose between the Premier League and the NFL this September or I might break your imaginary rules

inb4
>haha you guys are so easy to bait, imagine getting this many replies, I was merely pretending. .

Weeaboo is not who reading the manga and watching the anime, it's one who reading ONLY the manga and watching ONLY the anime. Learn the meaning of words already. You call weeaboo all who held a volume of manga in their hands.

>the absolute state of weebs

That is how that works.

What does this have to do with anything? We are talking about weeaboos.

This better be bait, because I refuse to believe someone can have such shit taste

While it's more likely that a weeaboo would only read manga, there's literally nothing to stop him from reading western comics. A weeaboo would still call the manga the superior choice over the western comic regardless of quality because it's Japanese, kinda like the OP is doing by using Naruto as an example of good writing.
Also learn English before trying to have argue a point.

>That is how that works.
No, it isn't.

>Am I being crazy or is there a seemingly unexplained gap in quality?
>unexplained

Attached: 1423358507871.png (989x1022, 1.31M)

regardless of what else you enjoy, if you take a shit example of manga and defend it this hard you are a fucking weeb. literally nowhere in the literal dictionary definition of weaboo does it mention ONLY liking Japanese culture, it just mentions liking it and thinking it is superior, which is what this idiot is doing

>What does this have to do with anything?
you say a weaboo wouldn't be reading western comics, then if that's true a British football lad (like myself) should have no interest in inferior american sports like the NFL. however I enjoy both, much like every weaboo I know also enjoys western comics/books/cartoon/films etc.

your definition of weeb is flawed and only exists so you can claim not to be a weeb because you read the odd issue of a western comic

>naruto
>much more story and happenings
What the fuck? It’s just as poorly paced as bendis Superman. Pleas get better taste or actually read good capeshit

Shounen is so much worse than capeshit it’s not even close. At least some actually good stuff came out of capeshit

>No, it isn't.
You have no idea what weeaboo means.

>it just mentions liking it and thinking it is superior, which is what this idiot is doing
That's not what a weeaboo is, because Japanese things can be (and often are) superior to Western things.

>you say a weaboo wouldn't be reading western comics, then if that's true a British football lad (like myself) should have no interest in inferior american sports like the NFL.
Just because something is true for X doesn't mean it's true for Y.

>your definition of weeb is flawed
It's the correct definition that the world has forgotten.

>only exists so you can claim not to be a weeb because you read the odd issue of a western comic
I am factually not a weeb and never said anything about reading any comics.

>because Japanese things can be (and often are) superior to Western things.
Lmao, you’re a weeb

Stating facts does not make someone a weeb.

>stating facts
Yep, a weeb. Only a weeb can be retarded enough to think that

Prove that stating facts makes someone a weeb.

someone call a cab and get this weeb back to Yea Forums or /jp/ or whichever board he ninja ran from to get here

Nigga do you seriously think that japs have achieved more than the entirety of the west? Are you retarded or just ignorant? Like hell, most of Japanese culture is stolen from China

>You have no idea what weeaboo means.
Enlighten me then fuckface, because when I asked if you knew what it meant you didn't answer.
A weeaboo is not someone that only read manga and watches anime, it's someone who thinks that Japan is superior to every other country in the world and who wishes that they were Japanese, they're also the idiots that chose Japanese shit over anything else just because it's Japanese.
There is nothing in the definition of weeaboo that says that they only consume Japanese products.

post your full definition of Weaboo then. enlighten us baka gaijin as to the true meaning of the word you seem so insulted to have linked with you, despite being a 100% example of the common usage of the word

Prove that I'm a weeb.

Do you seriously think Japan has never done something better than the West? That just makes you the exact same thing as a weeaboo, except you have just reversed the positions of Japan and the West.

>Like hell, most of Japanese culture is stolen from China
No it isn't.

>A weeaboo is not someone that only read manga and watches anime, it's someone who thinks that Japan is superior to every other country in the world and who wishes that they were Japanese, they're also the idiots that chose Japanese shit over anything else just because it's Japanese.
This is the correct definition, yes. So what are you trying to argue about here?

Prove that stating facts makes someone a weeb.

Shonen is worse because they rely on popularity polls and marketing gimmicks to make decisions on how to advance the plot.

are you the OP of this thread?

I call manga the superior choice because it's always better for me than boring, ugly american crap.

>This is the correct definition, yes. So what are you trying to argue about here?
You are claiming that they would only watch and read Japanese shit you megacunt.
And you still didn't answer what the definition of weeaboo was.

>Do you seriously think Japan has never done something better than the West?
No, but you did say Japan does MOST things better than the rest. That makes you, at best, ignorant
>No it isn't.
Actually yes. Their Buddhism straight up came from China and tweaked a bit

Yeah the only prominent time it happened for cape is what death in the family?

>However, with all this in mind, I still get the feeling comic fans are stiffed in quality and content. Reading through Naruto, it just seems like the writers somehow found a magical way to fit so much more story and happenings in their extremely limited medium,
Weekly vs (in that case) monthly,
Also the stories in manga end. That scarcity is why it feels like things are happening.

No. Why?

Why would a weeaboo waste their time reading comics when they know that anything Western is an inferior waste of time compared to anything Japanese?

>And you still didn't answer what the definition of weeaboo was.
Try reading the post.

>you did say Japan does MOST things better than the rest.
No I didn't.

>Actually yes. Their Buddhism straight up came from China and tweaked a bit
Then you are saying that Japanese culture consists of nothing but buddhism?

>Japan does MOST things better than the rest
Well when it comes to comics that's true
When I go to my LCS I always see people browsing the manga section, never the ameritard section

If you've read the western comics and still prefer manga then that's your opinion, but if you just say that without reading the western comics then you're a weeaboo.

Capeshit ends too. Once a writer leaves their story ends. It’s up to you whether you want to follow the rest. You can easily stop reading Batman after year one, for example

>Why would a weeaboo waste their time reading comics when they know that anything Western is an inferior waste of time compared to anything Japanese?
Because they fucking can, that's why you retarded shithead.

>Try reading the post.
I posted the definition, you just agreed with me. You never explained what it was or what you thought it meant.

>Well when it comes to comics that's true
Lol no. Especially shonen vs capes. Although I’ve been enjoying less mainstream manga more than creator-owned comics currently

>No. Why?
because I think most people here think you are, the OP of this thread is a massive weeb who seems to think that Naruto is a masterpiece of both artwork and writing when it is painfully generic and slow in both of those things.

>No I didn't.
>(and often are)
Fuck off

I don't need to read every ameritard comic out there or even an ameritard comic from start to finish to know I don't like it, dude. I've skimmed a few at my LCS, liked none. Looked at the covers of the rest and saw more of the same. I'll stick to manga.

A vegetarian can eat meat, nothing is stopping them. But then they're no longer a vegetarian. Retarded shithead.

>I posted the definition, you just agreed with me.
Then why are you asking me to post the definition? Did you change your mind about the definition you posted?

A "massive weeb" who reads American comics.

You said:
>you did say Japan does MOST things better than the rest.
I said:
>Japanese things can be (and often are) superior to Western things.
Fuck off.

Pssst, user, if you say Japanese stuff is often better than the west, you are saying a majority of Japanese shit is better than the west shit, you tard

>A vegetarian can eat meat, nothing is stopping them. But then they're no longer a vegetarian.
And now you're back to saying that they can only consume Japanese products, nice food analogy you fucking retard.

>Then why are you asking me to post the definition?
Because you never did you lying sack of shit.

Lol yes. Especially shonen satisfies people much more than ameritard shit.

So when you talk about Batman and your friends bring up shit you've not read are you supposed to exit the conversation and lose friends or force yourself to read shit you don't want to read just to keep talking to friends?

I think we can all let this thread die to be honest, its just going to turn into a circular argument with Weeb in denial here constantly claiming he is not a weeb just because he has sat and enjoyed things produced in the west.

even the too far gone anons who spend their life on Yea Forums and /c/ would call this guy a weeb

also
One Piece is better than Naruto or Bleach the only thing they have going for them is the story has actually ended.

>Especially shonen satisfies people much more than ameritard shit.
Does it though? Shonen is just easier to pick up becuase it has one continuity and is cheaper, and thus is more popular. Are you saying MacDonalds is good because it’s popular

About the Batman thing, what shitty friends do you have? My friends don’t even consume the same media as I do, we get along fine, and we recommend stuff to each other we haven’t experienced. So, I won’t exit the conversation, I will ask them what they think of it like you know, a normal conversation?

I made no statements about proportions or percentages, I just stated the fact that Japanese things often are better. Tard.

>And now you're back to saying that they can only consume Japanese products, nice food analogy you fucking retard.
So now your argument is that I'm wrong because I made a food analogy. Retard.

>Because you never did you lying sack of shit.
You already posted it, so why would I post it again? Are you expecting me to copy-paste your definition? The fuck is going on here?

>Weeb in denial here constantly claiming he is not a weeb just because he has sat and enjoyed things produced in the west.
Who are you talking about?

OP is both right and wrong. Right in that it is agreeable that manga is generally superior to comics but OP is wrong in that he picked Naruto to try and prove his point instead of all the other thousands of manga that could have easily done the job

Attached: 711YqJG3p2L._SX425_.jpg (425x414, 19K)

>So when you talk about Batman and your friends bring up shit you've not read are you supposed to exit the conversation and lose friends or force yourself to read shit you don't want to read just to keep talking to friends?
Do you have friends? Or talk to people at all?

>So now your argument is that I'm wrong because I made a food analogy. Retard.
It isn't and now it's very clear that you're just a baiting faggot, so fuck off.

>I just stated the fact that Japanese things often are better
user...that’s talking about proportion. Is English even your native language?

Very few series use that angle.

>Does it though?
Yeah, people like me are happy reading Naruto or BNHA or DBZ and only seek more the of the same, not ameritard crap. I don't read ameritard crap because I don't like it and if I were forced to waste time reading it I would just consider it time wasted when I could have been reading manga instead. It brings no satisfaction to me and to millions other people. While manga does.

>I will ask them what they think of it
So you're putting pressure on them to read shit they're not interested in? You're not someone I would like to be friends with.

>So when you talk about Batman and your friends bring up shit you've not read are you supposed to exit the conversation and lose friends or force yourself to read shit you don't want to read just to keep talking to friends?
The absolute STATE of weebs

I didn't bait anywhere, so fuck off.

No, I never said anything about proportions. Learn some English.

>So you're putting pressure on them to read shit they're not interested in?
You...said they already read it and is talking about it

>Yeah, people like me are happy reading Naruto or BNHA or DBZ and only seek more the of the same, not ameritard crap. I don't read ameritard crap because I don't like it and if I were forced to waste time reading it I would just consider it time wasted when I could have been reading manga instead. It brings no satisfaction to me and to millions other people. While manga does.
quick question mate. what the fuck are you doing here if you hate american shit so much?

>No, I never said anything about proportions. Learn some English.
Wew lad, go back to high school please

How come we never have threads like this for Scholastic books? It's the largest comic book publisher in the U.S.

>Naruto
>BNHA
>DBZ

Attached: 226273D7-1A8D-49F1-A2EB-29AC91233753.jpg (1312x1036, 407K)

because threads like this only happen when weebs come in to push their agenda

>OP is taking his obession with a beyond mediocre manga series that lasted far longer than it had any right to to justify Manga being better than Western comics
Isn't that the point? Comparing a mediocre western series to a mediocre nip one to show that even mediocre works are better?

Also saying nip works are better isn't weeb if they don't idolise Japan.

>You...said they already read it
No, some user said they didn't have to read Batman by other writers. So I told you, when talking to friends, what if they bring up Batman shit they haven't read, should they quit the conversation or force themselves to read shit they're not interested in? Your reply was to put pressure on them to read shit they're not interested in.

Take your own advice. "Japanese things" is very vague and "often" is also vague. I never said anything about proportions or percentages. I made no specific claims. You are just a reverse weeb who thinks the West must always be better than Japan.

>I didn't bait anywhere, so fuck off.
You haven't answered any questions, you keep falling back on the same argument that was proven wrong and you're using logical fallacies to counter arguments.
This is baiting 101.

I have answered questions, nor have I employed any wrong arguments or logical fallacies. I have not baited anywhere. You have no arguments.

Your lack of reading comprehension is astounding
>So when you talk about Batman and your friends bring up shit you've not read are you supposed to exit the conversation and lose friends or force yourself to read shit you don't want to read just to keep talking to friends?
I said that if I haven’t read the same Batman as them, I will ask them what they think of the Batman THEY read. No wonder you don’t like western comics, you can’t fucking read

not the guy you are responding to but let me break this down for you
user A, B and C are talking about Batman
user C stopped reading after a bit
user A brings up something they have read that C hasn't
user C does not "quit the conversation" he asks them what they thought of it and whether he should read given what he has read already
user A and B give their opinions and C makes the choice to read it or not.

you know what happens here in recommendation threads literally daily

>Yeah, people like me are happy reading Naruto or BNHA or DBZ and only seek more the of the same, not ameritard crap
Said the retard on the western comic and animation imageboard.

Chapters end, the story never does.

It’s extra confusing because it’s a scenario he himself set up and he doesn’t understand it?

>I will ask them what they think of the Batman THEY read
And put pressure on them because they'll be missing out on the other shit they haven't read and you are talking about.

The recommendation threads here are shit, thanks for proving my point.

>I have answered questions
No.
>nor have I employed any wrong arguments or logical fallacies
Yes you have, you tried to compare vegetarians to weeaboos.
That's a textbook example of a false equivalence.

Is Naruto to zoomers what evangelion is to millennials?

>And put pressure on them because they'll be missing out on the other shit they haven't read and you are talking about.
In your scenario, I’m not talking about anything, but rather listening to them talk about stuff they already experienced? What?

This. Naruro is so much better than your average cape comic.

>No.
Yes.

>Yes you have, you tried to compare vegetarians to weeaboos. That's a textbook example of a false equivalence.
No it isn't.

don't be a retard. nobody pressures anyone into reading, besides in my example HE FUCKING ASKED.

>you ask me if swamp thing is worth reading
I tell you which swamp thing runs I have read and which I liked
> you scream at me for pressuring you to read swamp thing

is this really what its like in your mind?

You're not even trying to hide it now.

Attached: 1535330877563.jpg (500x500, 53K)

Naruto is literally Nu-Bendis tier in both pacing and writing. Actually, it might be worse, because even Bendis never wrote a relationship as bad as Sasuke and Naruto

>In your scenario, I’m not talking about anything
In my scenario you have talked already about shit your audience doesn't care for, putting your audience off mood to talk with you.

>Naruto
>zoomers

Attached: 4d4.jpg (500x371, 17K)

>nobody pressures anyone into reading
I wish that were true, desperate ameritards can't seem to stand the idea I want to read manga and I don't want to read amerishit comics.

Not trying to hide what?

>In my scenario you have talked already about shit your audience doesn't care for, putting your audience off mood to talk with you
If they don’t care for it why are they talking about Batman as well? Dude, make your scenario clearer, or you’ll look like an autistic tard with no friends

Naruto succeeded in doing something no cape comics writer ever managed to do. A world building which draw a lot of people to Naruto in the first place.

Besides, part 1 Naruto was pretty good. The quality only dropped after Pain arc in part 2.

Because comics are shit.

What does it take for mods to delete threads on Yea Forums?
Because making clear as shit bait off-topic threads is clearly not enough for them.

Why the fuck are you here then?

>Naruto succeeded in doing something no cape comics writer ever managed to do
>world building
The fact that you actually believe this is fucking sad, next you're going to say that Naruto invented character arcs or some bullshit like that.

>Yea Forums
>mods

Attached: 1451183438171.jpg (284x276, 12K)

read what you fucking like mate, I have a large comic collection and a large manga collection just don't come in here screaming about how shit our stuff is or we will try and change your mind. you like Manga and want to read Manga then fine
go ahead sit with the other weebs and knock yourselves out

Please tell which cape comic has a better world building than Naruto. I will wait.

>Naruto succeeded in doing something no cape comics writer ever managed to do. A world building which draw a lot of people to Naruto in the first place.
>what is annihilation
>what is starman
>what is planetary
Three off the top of my head

Read more fucking comics

>If they don’t care for it why are they talking about Batman as well?
So you're saying one cannot care about Batman: Year One exclusively and no other Batman shit by other writers, they must read all the shit written by everyone ever?

>The quality only dropped after Pain arc in part 2.
I am on board with this statement, I read Naruto for years and it was in the Pain arc that I had to finally put it down and say enough is enough, I have wasted enough time on this garbage.

More recently, Black Hammer

>what is annihilation
>what is starman
>what is planetary
Do you even what's world building mean?

He's here because he's to scared to go to Yea Forums to make off-topic threads about western comics.

He would also be ridiculed in Yea Forums for thinking that Naruto is a good manga.

Yes. All of them have plenty of world building. Annihilation for cosmic marvel, starman for opal city, and planetary has its own world

literally no one has said that troll, now shoo shoo, off with you

>So you're saying one cannot care about Batman: Year One exclusively and no other Batman shit by other writers, they must read all the shit written by everyone ever?
When the fuck have I said that you sperg? It’s literally set up in your own scenario. I talk about year one, they follow up with their own Batman reading, I ask them what they think of their own Batman reading. Simple. What the fuck is wrong with you?

That's literally what you said though, retard.

>Do you even what's world building mean?
I doubt that you even know the definition yourself.
Learn English before you try to have arguments online.

Manga only does two things better than Comics.

>Fights
>Detail

Oh, and

>Robots

Most Western Artists hate mechanical designs so they won't get within 100ft of a robot if they don't have to.

>It’s literally set up in your own scenario
Clearly it's not because my scenario is

You literally changed it from your initial scenario, fuck off

Manga is much more versatile and numerous. It's a lot more than just battle shounen.

I never changed anything, dude. Don't blame me if you can't read.

>It's a lot more than just battle shounen
Could you stop talking about shounen like it's a genre?

Comics is so much more than capeshit too. In my opinion, the heights of manga hasn’t reached the heights of comics. I am open to recommendations though, I might have missed out on some good manga or comics

>In my scenario you have talked already about shit your audience doesn't care for, putting your audience off mood to talk with you.
Where the fuck have you stated the audience doesn’t care for it? If they don’t care for it why are they also talking about Batman? Seriously, do you not know how people work?

Last (You) (You) will get

this was the first post about it,
>So when you talk about Batman and your friends bring up shit you've not read are you supposed to exit the conversation and lose friends or force yourself to read shit you don't want to read just to keep talking to friends? from

just admit you have got yourself confused and fucking move on

Educate yourselves

writersedit.com/fiction-writing/the-ultimate-guide-to-world-building-how-to-write-fantasy-sci-fi-and-real-life-worlds/

>learn muh English first
Unlike you, I at least speak another language and don't use it as excuse to shot down someone's point because I'm incapable of making an argurment.

Could you show me where I said or implied that shounen is a genre?

>Comics is so much more than capeshit too.
Not nearly to the same extent that manga is, and on Yea Forums you hardly see anything except superheroes being talked about.

>I at least speak another language
Me too, yet I actually know what worldbuilding means. Funny, huh?

>annihilation
>starman
>planetary
>have a better worldbuilding

Attached: p2ve01.jpg (512x341, 28K)

Marvel and DC have multiple writers, while others comics/manga have just one writer (sometimes an editor).

>and on Yea Forums you hardly see anything except superheroes being talked about.
Because Yea Forums is filled with Yea Forums fags now

And most of Yea Forums is waifufagging, shonen and Isekai

>versatile
No.
>numerous
No.

Do you have any idea how many fucking comics there are cranked out each year? Let alone ones that people make and never see the light of day? There's a lot more than Capeshit. Just like Battle Shonen though, they both dominate the genres. Everything else is detail, which in the indie scene you'd actually find guys who can go toe-to-toe with some of the best Eastern artists. Specifically dudes who are into period pieces, and only make like three comics a year at most.

Comics as a medium suck fat loads for fighting because Western artists don't understand pacing or motion particularly well unless they're animators. A good Eastern guy will literally storyboard an entire fight to the extent that it's almost frame to frame. A Western artist? Nope. They have zero context of how to do this or why it is important, hence the only ones who do get it are animators.

Honestly both manga and comic books are shit in there own way. Manga can escape Japan's introverted dying culture and fetishism and Comics always become a slug fest with 70% of them going
>well shit, how do we end this?
Sure Hellboy was okay and Beserk golden age is fine, I can't complain looking at Ditkos work or Junji Ito, and Moore and Tsugumi Ohba have there moments, but all and all no medium is really worth praise. The best thing you can do is dig through a trash pile of a million stories to find a few gems in both Comics and Manga. Anyone who thinks one is better than the other probably gave up too soon.

>>have a better worldbuilding
Yes, thanks for repeating what I said

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>Where the fuck have you stated the audience doesn’t care for it?
>your friends bring up shit you've not read, are you supposed to exit the conversation and lose friends or force yourself to read shit you don't want to read just to keep talking to friends?
Are you retarded? Do you not know what "you don't want to read" means?

But why the fuck would I force myself to read something just because another person is talking about it? Are you retarded? I can easily converse with someone having not read it, like you know, a normal person?

Waifus, shounen and isekai are memes. Yea Forums talks about everything that's coming out.

Yes and yes. As I said, there's more to manga than battle shounen.

Battle shounen isn't a genre, action-adventure is.
Which is where a lot of the shit in "battle shounen" falls under.

Just because I haven’t experienced it doesn’t mean I don’t care for it. How do you even function on a daily basis

you keep switching the premise, first its people talking about shit WE are not interested in, then its us talking about shit our AUDIENCE is not interested in.

make your fucking mind up

Japan is culturally in much, much better condition than the West. It's the West that's dying.

It's a pseudo-genre and it's not the same thing as just "shounen."

Meant for

I think you get a lot of free points for using "regular capeshit" as the denorminator.
For every Invincible and Irredeemable there is 200 issues of poorly thought out Teen Titans/Marvel comics drama, stretched over half years of writing.
For every good saga of Spiderman, there is at the least 10 more thats just slightly better than the Clone saga.

Then again, there are other rather large differences between manga and capeshit, such as
-One artist only for inking, sketching and storyboard. Vs writer, penciler, inker and colorer
-Capeshit axes series based on sales, but no the continuity. And each line is a induvidual magazine
-Popular manga magazines has pools, where series gets axed in 1-2 volumes if it dips below a certain point. Because its a magazine, occasionally niche titles manages to produce 50-100 chapters.
-Most manga series gets axed once they drop below par. This even includes popular works like Bleach, where author fatigue/writing ability contributed to lower and lower pool ratings.
-As a result, each chapter of any manga that has run for more than 12/50 monthy/weely chapters will have high impact on each new chapter, which eases reading. There is exceptions to this like adaptions of Books/Novels/Web Novels/Games/TV series. I.e Nausciä is the posterchild of a manga that is painful to read, but its essentially a deal between a famed movie maker and a manga publisher
-Even in the 1930s there is a huge gap between Stardust and Superman

Most mangas are poorly thought out power or lust fantasies.
Most female manga that isn't ambitious is about how Plain Jane wants to have a lot of friends, be pretty, and get dicked by Chad McChad.
Most slice of life doesn't even have goals beyond small character progression per season of the year.
Most ambitious shounen manga gets axed within the first year of publishing, because the author is incapable of writing good peaks for each chapter, resulting in terrible pools and weekly experience.

Attached: Propaganda_Hitlers_taxodermy.jpg (768x600, 197K)

>It's a pseudo-genre
It's fucking nothing.

>But why the fuck would I force myself to read something just because another person is talking about it?
You don't want to be left out of the conversation? You feel pressured because all your friends are talking about it and you don't want to be weird freak that isn't? Peer pressure is a thing you know. Which is why a lot of people prefer manga, clear stories from start to finish, no confusing constant retconning of canon, what the creator says stays and nobody has the power to change it or alter it. No pressure to keep up with the joneses. It's honestly refreshing compared to the shit that goes on in comics.

And like I told you dubsnigger, there is WAY more to comics than fucking capeshit. And even the capeshit has the capacity to be extremely versatile when they decide to turn into slice of life pieces. And they often do because there's only so many times you can draw someone punching a dude before it becomes boring. So I will restate, once again, for your infantile brain.

The ONLY THINGS Manga does better than Comics is:

>Fighting
>Detail

That's it. That's all there is. Each one has their own niches carved out (like gambling manga or airplane comics). They are both equally versatile and equally numerous. You have ZERO insight into comics if you think otherwise.

No one is talking about you.

Just because you don't know what it means doesn't mean that it doesn't mean anything.

>here is WAY more to comics than fucking capeshit
Not nearly to the same extent as manga.

>The ONLY THINGS Manga does better than Comics is:
You are wrong because you barely know what manga even is.

>They are both equally versatile and equally numerous.
Ridiculous.

just to add more fuel to this dumpster fire, I have a friend who will call anyone using the words manga or anime a fucking weeb.

in his view, Anime is a cartoon, just cause its made in Japan and not aimed directly at children doesn't make it not a cartoon. and Manga is a comic for the same reasons, they only people that care about the distinction between comics and manga and anime and cartoons are insecure weebs that don't like telling people they watch cartoons for fun

Your friend might have brain damage. You should ask him to get it checked out.

It's not a fucking genre you retarded shithead, shounen isn't a genre.
Fucking use the genres and terms that already exist to describe shit.

Attached: 1513185348310.jpg (800x600, 27K)

I can't think of a single series I've ever read that used that formula.

The nips are much more materialistic than us, they like owning and taking care of physical things. Manga volumes are half the price over there, it’s always amusing seeing people get confused whenever a volume cover leaks for something like My Hero Academia and it’s listed at around 400 yen for a volume. This leads to manga not being as niche as comics are in the west. There’s more authors/artists and thus more good manga because there’s a higher chance of a good author or artist emerging. There’s plenty of garbage in the manga industry, it’s just that people only bother translating the “good” stuff.

You should put your friend out of his misery.

>shounen isn't a genre
Then why is literally every shounen the same?
>Bakuman
>Slam Dunk
>Dragon Ball
>Death Note
Name ONE (1) difference between any of them. I'll wait. Pro-tip: you can't because they're the same fucking genre.

Show me where I said that shounen is a genre.

Shounen is a target demographic, not a genre. How would you make the case that Nisekoi and Death Note are the same?

And we should care about what your friend say because.....?

How the heck Slam Dunk (a sport manga about basketball) as the as the rest you mentioned?

>Nisekoi and Death Note
Are they both shounen? Are they both shounen you little retard weeaboo? YES, YES THEY FUCKING ARE
THEY'RE THE SAME
THEY'RE ALL THE FUCKING SAME
Anime has never produced anything of worth

Shounen is a demographic you cunt, you don't even know what it means.

>Not nearly to the same extent as manga.

Yes to the same extent. Japan is one country, while manga is part of the culture over there in the West, comics are basically a cottage industry. However! You are kindly forgetting that comics are made in literally every country in the world that isn't in SEA. People in Mexico make comics, people in Brazil make comics, people in France make comics, people in Belgium make comics, all of these countries have their own publishers both large and small that produce hundreds, perhaps thousands of comics each year. You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Shounen is a target demographic. Prove that I'm retarded. Prove that I'm a weeaboo.

>Anime has never produced anything of worth
Then it logically follows that no form of media has ever produced anything of worth, making your claim pointless.

>manga about guys making manga
>manga about basketball
>manga about superpowered people fighting
>manga about a magical serial killer
Literally all shounen.

Mate you are pushing it. It does drama better, it does action in general better, it does mystery and horror, and it does romance better.
That is compared to current comics.
Don't remember when the last good horror comics came out, but manga has several good ongoing series on that genre.
Same thing with mystery, and the same thing with romance.

The fact that are are many countries that produce some kind of comics does not mean that their output all adds up to being numerically equal to manga or as varied in their content.

>Show me where I said that shounen is a genre.
You keep using battle shounen as a genre when it's not real.
The first result when you search it is fucking MAL.

Why are weebs so pathetic? You've never even read a real comic like Tom King's Batman epic or Tom King's Omega Men or Geoff Johns' Doomsday Clock. You're all subhuman scum.

Yes, battle shounen. Not shounen. Are you dumb or are you doing this on purpose?

No, you just have a preference for the works being created over there. That's the writing, not the medium. The medium is shit like artistry, mechanics of creation, rules, theory, etc. I mentioned fighting because even in non-action oriented manga, the fighting tends to be better. Let's use Monster as an example. It's both a mystery and a horror, but it also, at times has action. Not a lot, but it's there. This action is better than the vast majority comics because no one studies shit like framing a punch, or how aesthetically move in a shot, etc. The exceptions to this are often old detective/noir comics.

So you're talking about a subjective standard of writing, not an objective part of the medium. I can appreciate what you're saying, but we are talking about two different things.

Oh fuck off already. You may as well be saying Japan makes more books than the rest of the world.

as he said if you google battle shounen the top result is MAL, which is not a good source, next are two sites that mention shounen but not the world battle and the next is fucking reddit.

no book markets itself as being battle shounen, it markets itself as being shounen

Sounds about right.

Considering the size of the manga industry it's entirely possible that their output eclipses the rest of the world. And even if they didn't, the fact is that practically nobody reads comics from every corner of the planet.

I never said anywhere that battle shounen is a term used in Japan. Even the word anime isn't used in Japan the same way it's used here.

I didn't say you did say it was used in Japan, I said no book markets itself as being battle shounen, if I go down to my local bookstore and look at their manga section non of the books will have the words "battle shounen" written on them. just picking up the copy of Assassination Classroom that is laid next to me I can see that it has the words Shounen Jump on it, because that's where it appeared but that is the only mention on the word shounen on the book and the word battle isn't there at all

Look up the term "cottage industry" and why I used it in that sentence. I literally know two dozen people who work in the Spanish (as in Spain) comic book scene. Hell, I fucking know a guy from Romania that makes comic books. He's slow as shit, but he makes them.

My point, again, is that you're probably right if we're only comparing US to Japan, but you can't do that since we're comparing one medium to another. One medium is produced in Japan and (arguably) half a dozen small countries. The other is literally produced around the entire world, in smaller volumes for the most part but taken as a whole this number should easily account for the works being directed towards mostly niche audiences.

What you are doing is not being able to comprehend that if Japan makes 10 books a year, and ten other countries all make 1 book a year, it's the same amount of books. You might not like hearing this, but that's how the math shakes out.

The accurate way to compare manga and comics here is to compare the publishers.

Shueisha and Kodansha vs DC and Marvel. They have the biggest ip and following so the question here is which one produce better quality?

Its not just about sales, some times their contract ends or they dont feel lile writing. Or DC replaces them because they can. You think Bendis replacing Tomasi was a good idea

also comics
>there's a guy (or a woman) who is average joe
>NORMAL GUY YOU ARE CHOSEN ONE WEAR THIS CAPE
>guy now fights cosmic horrors and other extinction-level entities
>his success is based on what he has been given rathen than his own work, all he literally needs to do is not to use the powers to do evil

I can generalize too

if you compare them financially DC and Marvel win because they earn way more money but mind that Marvel and DC just don't give a shit about comics anymore and they now act as a library for movies and mechandising

I also never said that publishers or book stores use the term. Why are you attacking this strawman so hard?

If we're also including self-published stuff then that's also huge in Japan.

>The other is literally produced around the entire world,
Yeah, and nobody reads it. It's fractured across the entire non-Japanese world.

And why is this even so important? Even if the entire rest of the world had an output equal to or greater than Japan's, it still doesn't mean their variety (or quality) is at the same level.

Ok fine but I have yet to see a comics in the last decade who goes into the dept of research a lot of manga go trough.
Just take a normal slice of life "cookign" one like "Alcohol is for Married Couples", it goes trough great detail and on how cocktails are made and the "sensation" they bring out. And while it could just go away it that level of detail and just focus on the romcom aspects it would make the final product not as good, even if it saved the author hours of research time.
A lot of comics these days seem to do no researcher at all, even on the charter they are supposed to write. Which is what makes me believe manga is currently the superior writing medium.

>country of origin doesn't use it
>publishers don't use it
>salespeople don't use it.

then who does? who decides what gets to be a battle shounen? You? the weebs on MAL?

its not a genre, at best it is a sub genre of the greater shounen range

It's a colloquial term used by fans. I have no idea why are you so hung up on this.

Some manga employ historical or technical consultants, like Emma (A Victorian Romance).

because earlier in the thread you insisted heavily it was a genre, at any point then you could have said, "battle shounen is a colloquial term used by fans in the manga community to refer to a subset of shounen manga that share similar elements"

I think you mean WB and Disney earn more money. The comparison is about the publishers and the quality of their books.

Shueisha earn more money over their IPs than WB and Disney earn from DC and Marvel.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises

Main difference is that western comics are written and created by a committee that includes everyone from writers to business people looking to make it as profitable as possible.

Mangas, on the other hand, are literally one man's (or woman's, based Mori-sensei) passion project conceived, written and drawn by that one person and with all the world and backstory and worldbuilding and character creation done by that one person. Only other people there really are the assistants, and they're only there to help the mangaka because he otherwise physically couldn't do it.

That's why mangas are generally better, they're one man's passion project vs done by committee western comics. Also a big part of manga ecosystem is how permissive editors of manga magazines are, as far as I can tell they'll literally let anything through as long as it's not something that breaks age rating. It's like "oh you want to draw this manga where the world is flooded and all the high school girls are in their swimsuits all the time? Sure, that sounds great.". They let almost anything through, no matter how weird, bizarre or perverted, whereas western editors and board rooms do it extremely safe and with an eye only on the profit.

And THAT'S why manga > western comics.

Considering manga is also much more successful financially all around the globe looks like western editors are completely dumb and retarded about profit.

>Spider-Man is bigger brand than Batman
I didn't see this coming and I wasn't aware than Final Fantasy is considerd to be a huge franchise that they are even included with the big names.

Naruto up until about the Chuunin arc was better than any superhero story. After that it was a sharp drop off and by the end Naruto was utter shit not worth reading.

Suits are worse than useless, they actively worsen the product more often than not.

literally how? Manga has an edge when it comes to providing quantity content with (mostly) consistent quality. Comics can't claim that. Yeah comics have an edge with continuities and long stories and cross-overs but when it comes to other aspects it fails to compare to manga despite its many advantages. I'm asking why.

>Manga has an edge when it comes to providing quantity content with (mostly) consistent quality.

Motherfucker, you only say this due to the fraction of manga that gets translated and published in English.

You speak like you read every western comic that was published. There are also many western comics that hardly heard about.

>A lot of comics these days seem to do no researcher at all, even on the charter they are supposed to write.
Reminds me of that time America had google translate level Spanish

Yeah, so the gap in variety and quality is even more pronounced.

>you only say this due to the fraction of manga that gets translated and published in English.
That makes it even worse.
If only a sliver of works from Japan that get translated overseas are STILL outperforming ALL of American comics, then you have a PRETTY FUCKING BIG PROBLEM

>Another East vs West thread

Why can't you faggots just come to the conclusion that people like different things?

It is a pseudo-genre.

>Motherfucker, you only say this due to the fraction of manga that gets translated and published in English.
Who cares about official translations? Majorities of mangas are scanlated and available in English nowadays. You can read everything from newest releases to biggest hits to most obscure super weird and/or perverted stuff online in English.

And here's the thing: at worst it's still more fun than any western comics.

East vs West is a false dichotomy because Europe has a strong comic book industry as well.

Personally Japan > Europe > US

/thread

this

And yet when I try to discuss Zagor or Dylan Dog here I get blank looks.

AS good as European comics might be they have little to no international appeal.
So you are unlikely to find many people who actually read then, even on Yea Forums.

>10 chapters for just $10.00
Holy hell does a manga volume really cost $10 in america? because over here it's 5€ tops.

>It's worse if we cherry pick mostly the cream of the crop manga and compare those to American comics as a whole

Also, you're completely erroneous in the assumption that the two different styles of comics have the same core audience. A lot of manga is bought because they saw the anime. And these people aren't interested in comics as a medium,they are interested in anime and the source material for the shit anime adapts.

I mean by that logic Marvel comics should be selling like hot cakes thanks to the MCU.

>You can read everything from newest releases to biggest hits to most obscure super weird and/or perverted stuff online in English.

Bull-fucking-shit. Vast majority of seinen and josei series never even get fan translated. If you think the opposite you're hilariously ill informed.

>It is a pseudo-genre.
Here we go again.

Americans don't want you buying foreign comics, they want you to buy American ones.

What are you talking about?

The trades directly associated with movie adaptations like Infinity Gauntlet do sell well. Same way Watchmen is still three decades later from of its original print run a giant seller.

Spidy is more likable character than Batman, to be honest.

>average joe
You mean wealthy or above normal intelligence.

Watchmen is a master piece and while the movie might have helped the sales it would still sell well regardless, just based on the quality of the product. And the anime adaptations comes after the the success of the manga, so saying the successful sales is thanks to the adaptation is not really right.

Is it really tariffs?

Why else charge double?

this
Comics have never done well because quality-wise they're shit.
You have to come out with a multi-million-dollar movie just to goad a bunch of normies to buy your shitty new run of "super mega ultra man of power" #234 to make it profitable for another year beyond making ends meet with just your shit-eating masochistic fanbase

To recoup the cost of investment because of low interest in the product. If the product is expected to sell low then you have to increase the price to compensate.

Of course that will have the effect of making the product even less attractive to consumers which will then further decrease the popularity of the product and may trigger death spiral.

One way you avoid that is by operating at a loss, which is something most startups do in their early stages or what Sony did with PS3, by investing money and purposefully losing money per unit sold to make it more attractive value proposition for customers with the idea of building a base and then making the money back somehow.

Bullshit. After some Google searching literally there's NOTHING on tariffs doubling prices in the States. Try harder.

that's not how supply-demand works

Attached: 1200px-Supply-and-demand.svg.png (1200x1200, 77K)

>he thinks protectionist rackets can be found on google
I bet you think cartels aren't operating to make sure Immortal Hulk outsells Batman, too.

Pretty much. It's far more successful for a reason

That post is almost entirely wrong though

Where is it wrong?

>implying little editor influence in manga
>implying large swaths of creator-owned comics don’t exist
>implying eurocomics don’t exist
Fuck off

Supply and demand will converge after a while, but with weak demand and middling supply that convergence point will be high relative to similar products and purchasing power of the consumer.

Just because supply and demand will converge it doesn't mean that the convergence point will be low.

How is manga successful? It fucking sucks

If it’s quality problem both superhero movies and manga would do shit too

Are you actually retarded? Manga blows American comics out of the fucking water in sales

>>implying little editor influence in manga
There's objectively almost no editor influence in manga. How do I know? Just look at all the weird shit that gets published, I mean there are loads and loads of manga published in magazines that are literally just creator drawing his fetishes. Even something like Victorian Romance Emma and Otoyomegatari is basically hardcore history manga created as a result of deep personal interest in Victorian and Central Asian history on part of the mangaka.

>>implying large swaths of creator-owned comics don’t exist
In western industry they don't. Companies own brands and then sell those brands to publishers and hire artists and writers, subject to suits approval, to create specific iterations of the brands. Brands being Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Iron-Man, Avengers etc

>>implying eurocomics don’t exist
I was specifically comparing American and Japanese industries. I'm European I didn't forget about Euro comics.

Probably because they are dirt cheap and easier to get into. Honestly DC and marvel would just lower paper quality like mad and sell it for a dollar each, and most importantly PUT THEM OUTSIDE LCSES

Last I checked Superman and Batman have higher lifetime sales than any of your precious weeb pedo pamphlets
Sit down, be humble. Take the L

Have you read the author's notes on Emma? Mori telling her editor how minute details are "important" was cute.

Could you have said that without sounding like a fucking cunt?

>implying there isn’t comics full of creators drawing or shoving in their fetishes
>implying creators don’t own their brands
Jesus fuck user Image exists

>Naruto
>Quality

lol, this is an amazing troll post.

I was talking why manga is overall better than US comics, not why it's successful. Although it undoubtedly is. American superhero films are more successful than any comics based competition but American comic book industry is suffering.

>How do I know? Just look at all the weird shit that gets published,
This means jack shit though, Editors might be supporting that shit or pushing for weirder stuff

You got BTFO weeb now fuck off back to Yea Forums

Not even the same guy you moron.

>lifetime sales
This is pathetic user. One piece sold like 8 million volumes last year. How many did bamham and Superman sell?

>world building
>naruto
>world building
>naruto
lololololololololol

There's almost nothing at all to their world, this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Unsounded has much more worldbuilding going on.

I’m not sure if it’s the translation but holy hell manga writers have such shit prose. That’s why I can’t get into it

You’re talking to delusional weebs in this thread, why are you surprised?

I've read Emma several times, if that's what you mean. I know Mori even hired historical consultant for later volumes and I know her details, like fashion depending on decade and place and class, are always impeccable.

I also like that she doesn't insert modern morality into Victorian tale, so Mrs. Stownar hires Emma to be her maid, despite Emma being a homeless orphan, not her daughter or whatever, and Emma is expected to work and clean around the house. And yet Mrs Stownar also teaches Emma to read and write and history and literature and manners etc, so it's not like she was abusing her. In the context of the time giving her position as a maid would have been kind charity and that's precisely what happened.

So Emma is basically the most realistic version of Cinderella ever made

You are saying that ecchi is just as much of a genre in the West as it is in Japan, and that authors owning their work is just as common?

It means that the industry is much freer and less restricted on what gets published, and it's much more free for all.

It's actually weird since you'd expect that sort of laissez fair the free market will decide attitude from Americans, but no, the American market is tightly regulated and dominated by two or three mega corps, while Japanese market has massive amounts of space for experimental stuff and weirdness and most mangas are just author's personal projects.

Last I checked Batman and Superman are still above wanpiss so you can fuck right off. 8 million is NOTHING compared to Superman's 600 million.

>ecchi is just as much of a genre in the West as it is in Japan
It’s not, but it has nothing to do with editorial. Creators are free to self-publish as many eechi Writers do, there’s just no interest
>authors owning their work is just as common
Image is gaining more popularity, definitely. There’s still some way to go

Almost like mangaka often have a vision & wanna give the reader a good visual experience. With comics it's always a deadline battle with an artist who doesn't care & just wants to get paid. While the writer just needs to dump as much dialogue as he can in those panels. There's no love put into it.

>if that's what you mean
No, it isn't. It's not even close to what I mean but whatever.

>abloo abloo I hate reading

Are you actually going to claim there's American equivalent to ecchi genre? Seriously? And ecchi is one of the largest, most productive and best selling genres in general, and it's literally weird fetish the manga after the next one. And that's what makes it glorious.

Manga often have most dialogue than american comics. Difference is it's spread out rather than crammed into 4 panels at a time.

>It’s not, but it has nothing to do with editorial. Creators are free to self-publish as many eechi Writers do, there’s just no interest
Yes, precisely, self publish. That's the difference, in Japan these weird/perverted sorts of comics are published by actual publishers, from the smallest that might have circulation of few thousand to biggest that sell millions, in actual manga magazines and tankobons.

At present, american comics "write for the trade", meaning they almost always try to do one story every six issues. They do this regardless of whether the story they have in mind is suited for that many issues or not. Consider Marvel Netflix, which had a recurring problem of every show being 1 hour long and 13 episodes, despite not having really that much story to tell. It's the same problem.
Now consider manga, which comes out weekly and must leave the readers on a cliffhanger every single time. You have to have SOMETHING happen every issue to move the story forward, because manga is in a brutal competition with every other comic in the magazine to not get replaced by something hot and new. You've got to keep people's attention or you'll slip down in the rankings.
Even though both are designed to go on forever, american comics are WAY more decompressed.

Ok, sorry, I haven't read the author's notes then. Were they in Anything & Something then?

>Manga often have most dialogue than american comics.
That’s just not true, no matter how you look at it

Except it is. Especially when a manga volume compared to a comic trade is much thicker in content.

>and it's much more free for all.
Also because there are so many different publishers and all of them are very loose on what they accept, it also means you often have surprises breaking through and suddenly becoming big hits overnight. Something like Attack on Titan which went from obscure manga by a guy that never published anything before to one of the top selling mangas that also got anime adaptation almost overnight.

When's the last time that happened in the west? With Watchmen in the 80s? And that was still big name writer and big name publisher.

>and best selling genres in general
I don't think there's any ecchi among the best selling manga.

animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-11-29/top-selling-manga-in-japan-by-series-2018/.140163

For example, not a single ecchi series in the top 10 for 2018. It just gets scanned and translated in disproportionately high numbers.

No they're at the back of the volumes. At least in the hardcovers from Yen Press.

Western comics are the work of editorial interests and the creative team attached to the work more than they are the authorial expression of the author. Manga lives and dies by the author's/artist's ideas (although this does end up wearing down many mangaka).

>When's the last time that happened in the west?
Walking Dead?

>he thinks $4.00 for a single issue is better than $5.00 for a multiple-issue, multiple-series magazine
OP has a case of the retards

Superman selling a ton of issues in the 40's when comics were 5 cents doesn't really prove anything today. He gets mogged hard by manga now. Only 2 properties that are close at all is Batman and Spiderman, and their comic sales are still shit on by wan piss yearly.

Turns out creator-driven stories sell better than editorial nightmares.

Counterpoint: that single issue has color, which makes it objectively superior.

>implying western comic art isn't often garbage

>Manga lives and dies by the author's/artist's ideas (although this does end up wearing down many mangaka)
And can be bad if the author has no idea what to do beyond a certain point and/or just had a cool idea and didn't know how to realize it.

Talking specifically about Naruto which got worse and worse after about midway point but just went to complete shit with one awful asspull after another by the end because Kishimoto didn't know how to end and wrote himself into a corner.

Color > b&w
There is no counter argument to this.

Color is overrated. I've never once thought "oh this would look so much better in color" especially with mangas with really good art.

It surprisingly often is, with badly drawn faces and stiff poses and sometimes even poses out of whack.

As much shit as manga gets for moeblobs at least even the most generic moeblob looks cute.

Ecchi is only as big as it is because of doujin/amateur creator works. If you think there aren't hundreds of thousands of american amateur artists publishing their weird porn fetish comics online, you're too new for this website.
No, they don't actually physically publish their works, but that's because distribution in America would be a bitch.

>and sometimes even poses out of whack.
*proportions out of whack

Manga art is as dependent on the creator as the writing, and both are in stiff competition continuously. In western work, especially capeshit, the writer is often independent from the art team and it's usually the writer being marketed over the art team.

>If you think there aren't hundreds of thousands of american amateur artists publishing their weird porn fetish comics online, you're too new for this website.

There's like ten dozen, if that. Nowhere near as many as in Japan, and very few are as talented as even the average for Japan.

>lololololololololol
Nothing scream "TRIGGERED" than this kind of response.

>Ecchi is only as big as it is because of doujin/amateur creator works. If you think there aren't hundreds of thousands of american amateur artists publishing their weird porn fetish comics online, you're too new for this website.
But there are literally thousands if not tens of thousands if not more ecchi works published by actual, real, publishing companies. That's the point and the difference between American and Japanese comic book industries. Other differences are proliferation of smaller publishers instead of everything being concentrated in two mega corps and publishers being willing to publish literally anything as long as it doesn't break the law. And finally mangakas are the only creative force behind their works, drawing, writing, worldbuilding, making character designs and so on instead of having publishers and execs tell them what will sell better.

Try to keep up, constantly talking in circles is annoying.

99% of tumblr before the nsfw purge was made up of fan artists/creators making weird porn. 99% of deviantart still IS.
The only reason there isn't a real doujin industry in America as opposed to Japan is because distribution is a bitch in a country like America that's so decentralized.
As for talent, I'll agree, but it's due to cultural differences.

>If you think there aren't hundreds of thousands of american amateur artists publishing their weird porn fetish comics online,
Yes publishing them online by themselves, not in actual comic book issues like in Japan.

>published by actual, real, publishing companies
Because distribution of print media is piss easy in Japan, everyone lives within a hundred mile radius of each other.

Manga has greater variety is genres and 19 pages? Manga can span from 20 to 50 pages a chapter depending on it being a weekly or monthly release. And manga is WAY cheaper. By a lot.

I like me some comics, but I know exactly why manga sells better.

Because they're just selling collections of already popular titles that get cross promotion due to Anime. Manga often sells shit numbers in Japan as well until they get a TV anime adaptation and start raking in serious dough.

I don't know how you can say nothing ever happens in superhero comics while holding up Naruto. It is a little bit less decompressed than your typical shonen but you still have to buy like five volumes just to get a complete story at times. Seriously rethink this entire post and argument.

Black and white is almost always superior though. Unless the colorist is immensly talented or the artist is coloring his/her own work than color most often than not impair the art's quality.

Just look at the dumpster fire that is first few issues of Planetary, Injustice with the whole warping original pencils shit, later parts of Preacher, post Ennis Hellblazer when some colorists start using gradients. Or the killing joke recolor

Walking Dead is successful due to the TV show. The comic has been hit or miss for the past ten years or so if you asked anyone still reading it.

That's not even close to most manga, there is so much manga. Housewife manga, salaryman manga, romance, porn, manga specifically about shogi or mahjong...

Just because you have limited experience with mostly shounen manga does not mean that it is "most" manga.

>It is a little bit less decompressed than your typical shonen but you still have to buy like five volumes just to get a complete story at times
No you don't, just read until about chapter 250. After that it's mostly bad and by the end it's just shit.

That has to do with page count though. Western comics are still more dense

>That's not even close to most manga, there is so much manga. Housewife manga, salaryman manga, romance, porn, manga specifically about shogi or mahjong...
Also large parts of manga are Slice of Life stuff where nothing happens and comfyness is the point, which isn't even a genre in the west for some reason. And those are often the best ones, too.

Speaking of which, comfyness is massively missing from western industry.

Fuck off tomasifag

Again you completely ignore European comics that traditionally are about fifty or sixty pages per volume. Or newspapers strips like Peanuts. Comics have and always be more than capeshit, it's just that capeshit is what sells the most because it's the genre that has survived when others died.

How delusional are you?
>Already popular series
How are they popular before they exist? They are published in magazines, gain a following, and then are collected in volumes. Which sell a fuck ton for popular series. Trades are the comic equivalent and they sell like dogshit in comparison.

A series needs to be popular BEFORE they even consider making an anime.

In America everyone keeps chanting the name of Shadman because he's the only one anyone knows. There are thousands of Shadmen in Japan.

There are many locals events in Japan, not just Comiket (which people do attend from outside Tokyo), and big cities in America could still hold large events.

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On the average, manga is better than comics. However, if you compare the best of each, comics have far, far more and better masterpieces than manga. Is there a secretly great manga out there that I haven't heard about? Obviously, I've read every single manga that has been called the greatest (the works of Tezuka, Urasawa, Inoue, Asano, Igarashi, Matsumoto, Taniguchi, Nihei, Tatsumi, Tsuge and Tsuruta Kenji, classics like Lone Wolf and Cub, Nausicaa, Akira, and Devilman, and a whole bunch of shounen). Tezuka, Taniguchi, Asano, and Matsumoto are the the only ones that are close so far.

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Because they're so dense they have to cram dialogue in but they can only put so much. With manga having extra pages that means they can spread out the dialogue but also put so much more text throughout. Especially in a historical manga series like Vinland Saga or Golden Kamuy. There's so much information in one volume alone than anything you'll get from a comic trade.

Not true. The only part when Naruto is actually good is the little chunk from around Pain fight until he midddle of five kages' summit. It's such an outlayer in terms of writting that it's hard to believe that it was written by hackimoto

Easily Shueisha and Kodansha. There's no comparison here.

>Comics have and always be more than capeshit, it's just that capeshit is what sells the most because it's the genre that has survived when others died.
And the difference is, in Japan those other comics never died so they still have a thriving comic book industry with lots of publishers and topics.

I agree with this post, and I’ll also add that capeshit is far more appealing to me than shounen

>The only part when Naruto is actually good is the little chunk from around Pain fight until he midddle of five kages' summit
Wow that's a newfag opinion. Naruto is only good from Land of Waves until Chuunin Exams.

What are the heights of American comics in your opinion? The only thing that's come close to the better manga I've read is stuff like Sandman or Watchmen. Actually those are the main two that stick out in a sea of mediocre cape shit.

I’ve read nothing manga that comes close to Sandman though, and that isn’t even my favourite American series

This is a meme opinion. Naruto lost its steam when the great war arc started because you could tell kishi stopped caring.

Meh, I don't care about artistry of the comics or whatever, I just read what I like. And, personally, superhero stuff has never appealed to me on any level, from characters to character designs to plots to dialogue to villains to stories, I literally don't like any of this.

My problem with modern comics is the same problem I have with all the movies, tv shows, and games coming out these days: they all want to be franchises. A good story needs a beginning middle and end, which is something you used to get within a single issue of a comic, or an episode of a tv show. Now one decent story is spread out across several issues or an entire season of tv because it's not enough that you buy one issue or watch one episode, you must consume them all to get the full story.

Writers used to struggle to fit all of the story within the pages they were given, now they struggle to spread it out over several issues leading to a lot of pointless fluff paid for by word count rather than quality. The biggest lie pushed seems to be that "it gets better after issue/episode/part whatever"

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Why limit to american? user is talking about comics as a whole

Zabuza and Haku are the best part of Naruto, fite me.

For some reason overwhelming majority of americans is only interested in superhero comics

Yeah but that's what I'm saying, Sandman is pretty great(if flawed) but it's pretty much the only comic I've read that really wowed me. It's a huge outlier.

>My problem with modern comics is the same problem I have with all the movies, tv shows, and games coming out these days: they all want to be franchises
This is true but it also has another problem you didn't mention - they all want to be franchises so they have to be as safe, as mass appealing, as possible to not possibly lose out on any dollars. That's the nice thing about manga, most of it is niche that's specifically "you like this? Cool, this is for you".

They are the cringiest part of naruto if anything.

Oh good point I just assumed since the thread was about it. I haven't read many Euro comics so I don't really know anything about them

>forgetting the kino Jiraiya vs Pain fight
Absolutely disgusting

Pain vs Naruto was better, though. Him blowing up Konoha was actually pretty cool

Have you read Lucifer?

Can you recommend me manga that’s better than sandman though? I think I’ve read most of the greats already

Even this arc has its moments. Garaa vs his father, the five kages fighting together, troll kage and tobi-freaking-rama.

As stupidly overused as it ended up being, especially in AMVs with Linkin Park songs, Naruto vs Sasuke in the Valley of the End is genuinely an amazing and an aesthetic fight.

You haven't mentioned Junji ito for once, the guy is the god of horror in the manga world. You also need to keep in mind a lot of works works haven't been translated to English and probably never will, what you get is the mos popular stuff meaning the true gems will most likely never get a translation. And I would have to disagree with you, while there are some master pieces in comics, just by the shear volume of manga there are more master pieces in the, manga industry.
Not only because of the classics but because there are still "masterpieces" being produce currently. While I don't remember a single being release in the last decade worthy of of that title.

Berserk, BLAME.

>Skimmed
No fucking shit you didn’t like them. You skimmed them. You didn’t read the whole damn thing you retard. Go read All-Star Superman and then try telling yourself any jap shit is better then that.

Well if it's comics as a whole it includes manga.....
Which is why this thread is talking about american comics.

Junji Ito is overrated as fuck

>Go read All-Star Superman
Not that user, but I can guarantee I wouldn't like it no matter how good it may be because I strongly dislike superhero characters, design and storylines.

>Berserk
Nope, even at peak golden age it isn’t as good, and now it’s just average to shit
>BLAME
Oh god, I realise our tastes will never match

>this is your brain on capeshit

>While I don't remember a single being release in the last decade worthy of of that title
Gotham Central, off the top of my head

I mean to each his own. But he is is objectively great at creating a atmospheric scenes and using the medium to it's fullest potential in order to deliver horror.

I don’t even like capeshit you weeb. That man cannot end something well to save his life, the only good part of anything he does is the art, and even that gets old after a while without strong writing or characters to back it up

What I mean is your average highly rated comics (Watchmen, Maus, Sandman, Love and Rockets) are far better than your highly rated manga (Vagabond, Berserk, Nausicaa, Phoenix). They aren't about the same things, obviously, but the difference in quality is huge. I'm also asking for recs, because I'm close to quitting manga.
>Junji ito
Those were practically the first manga I've read.

that's at least a decade old user...

>Nope, even at peak golden age it isn’t as good, and now it’s just average to shit
I actually think Golden Age arc is kind of overrated. I like the Tower arc the best personally, but even the Empire invades arc was great and the final fight against the emperor whatshisname as he became basically Shiva destroying the world is one of the best parts of the series.

Series went to shit only with the most recent Fantasia arc.

Junji Ito's long stories have underwhelming endings. His short one-offs are god tier though.

oh god, I thought it was much later

>maus
>muh holocaust
>higher quality than the highest rated manga out there
You're insane.

I've been meaning to for a while I've heard it's on par. Just haven't gotten around to it. I also enjoyed Moore's swamp thing a lot.

Not necessarily better. Sandman's scope is just too massive. Lucifer and the biscuit hammer was better than 90% of comics I've read though if you haven't read that. And the authors other stuff. Of what I've read classic Devilman, BLAME, Sengoku Youko are all amazing

I haven't really read that many "masterpiece manga" like 20th century boys, I mostly read manga for pure enjoyment. Due to the nature of scanlation many masterpiece level manga will never even get translated

Once guts gets a merry band of fucking kids the manga drops off a cliff imo

Have you read Tomie? It's one of his first series and it has the advantage that there is no end or much of the point, it's just violent disturbing horror that follows a girl called Tomie that's probably not human in a series of not at all connected stories.

I tried, the concept honest got old really fucking quick. “Wow creepy girl makes people obsessed with her” is so lame to me

The thing with manga is that it isn't as "padronized" as comics.
If you don't like manga is likely because you can't find one that appeals to your personal tastes.

Yes, it is. So is Berlin. Just because the subject matter is too much for you doesn’t mean it’s bad

I mean he attempts to rape Casca after he gets the merry band of fucking kids, if you think the manga gets too light.

I don't know, maybe because I also like JRPGs but I never had much of a problem with Gut's band or with the storyline up until the most recent arc. The boat part was bad Pirates of the Caribbean and elven queen part is just no. But because manga was really good very recently I'm still holding out hope.

>Wow creepy girl makes people obsessed with her” is so lame to me
So you want deep/er comics but you don't care to put one iota of thought in them?

> if you think the manga gets too light.
It’s not that it gets light, it’s that the characters are annoying and constantly clash with the tone

I gave up on it somewhere in the middle of the boat arc, I just didn’t care anymore and the delays don’t help. Casca being totally destroyed as a character didn’t help matters

So what’s so deep about her that I should continue reading?

She's immortal, shapeshifting, unkillable creature whose every cell is full blueprint to recreate herself (same as the Thing from The Thing) that causes such lust and jealousy in everyone that they inevitably kill her and destroy themselves mentally, physically and otherwise in the process.

The subject matter is more fictional than anything in cape comics. Lies are not high quality story telling material. Go read actually quality stuff in manga.
>Death Note
>Platinum End
>All You Need Is Kill
>Golden Kamuy
>Vinland Saga
>The Promised Neverland
>The Ghost & The Lady
>To Your Eternity
All great books better than another holohoax award bait story.

It really depends on your tastes, that is the things with manga.
But if you are looking for things similar to capeshit Akumetsu is god tier.

Yeah, that’s what I got from her from my skimming. Sorry, I don’t like this kind of horror. The one I liked most from Ito was the spirals one

Most recent chapter is actually interesting, Griffith is basically building a fascist state with indoctrinated children and youth raised by the state and extreme degree of militarization all to combat the problem of dying out humanity and massive monster presence that he caused in the first place. So he becomes a savior of humanity even though he's a God Hand demon with a host of powerful demons under his control.

>>Death note
And stopped right there, get some fucking taste

I didn't care for spiral. Maybe it's cultural but I just don't find spirals of all things scary. And the manga never really scared me or disgusted me with one exception when all the townspeople fuse together in one giant living spiral towards the end.

Is that the recent one where the witch is on casca's "brain"?

Up until the death of L Death Note is objectively great. After that, yeah, it's whatever.

Oh, so a /pol/ack with shit taste

Wasn’t this established before though? Like before the boat, even

This is your mind on american comics, folks. Lowest of the low.

>he didn't read Dylan Dog

They've already healed Casca, she got her memories back, woke up, got new outfit courtesy of the elven queen, saw Guts and then started screaming from all the pain that she suddenly remembered. That's the last we saw of her, since the focus has been on Griffith building his kingdom and becoming new Gilderic.

>likes death note
>calls it better than Maus
>calls others lowest of the low
No user, (You) are the lowest for the low

>I wasn't aware than Final Fantasy is considerd to be a huge franchise that they are even included with the big names
Why are you surprised? FF is a big franchise and unique in a way that every mainline game has its own lore/worldbuilding and new cast of characters.

>>Vinland Saga
is great. Shame they'll never get to Canada.

Why don’t weebs just fuck off and jerk off to their shitty manga back on Yea Forums? Yea Forums doesn’t allow east v west for a reason

>holohoax
It is still a good fiction story you fucktard.

Some of it was, but it was never elaborated what kind of state Griffith was building.

You can just read it

readberserk.com/chapter/berserk-chapter-358/

Whether or not you care about (or believe) the Holocaust, the construction and writing is genius. It isn't one of my favorites, and there's plenty of manga that I enjoy WAY more, but it's undeniably a better work than almost any manga I've read, which makes it all the worse. Those manga you listed aren't helping either.
There are plenty of manga that I love. I've read something like 200 titles, dropped several hundred more. What I'm looking for is a masterpiece of Japanese art, philosophy, great writing etc. I'd say I found a few, but they are too few.

Cool I kind of stooped reading after she got healed and saw guts since It's a bother to wait for new chapter for eons after i finish reading them.
I didn't know there were several new chapters.

>Yea Forums doesn’t allow east v west for a reason
Doesn't allow or simply no one care to make one there? Also...

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Oh, yeah, and they want to basically use refugees from other human kingdoms as soldiers and cheap (free) labor with path to citizenship open to those that distinguish them. basically "service guarantees citizenship" from Starship Troopers.

What the fuck are you talking about weebnigger?
Go check some french comics, or even italian.

Yea Forums mods actually do their jobs, so the former

Dylan Dogs first 70 or so issues are great since they were all written personally by Sclavi himself. After that the quality is iffy and a lot of it is cheap b horror. Barbato was supposed to save the comic but she completely failed so it's back to mediocrity.

>Yea Forums mods
>actually do their jobs

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More than Yea Forums mods

It is still great (nearly) 100 issues.
If that user was to read more, he'd find more good horror.

There are definitely still great issues, just not as good as Invisible Man or some of the other early ones.

Did you read them in English, Italian or something else ?

Holyland comes to mind if you haven't read it already.
I haven't read many of the "2 deep 4 u" comics or manga because they aren't to mys tastes.
Watchman is perfect in term of the author being "very smart" while also being entertaining.

Hell, why is Watchmen so overrated among casuals? For mainstream Moore, swamp thing is better

The story isn’t really all that superhero-ish it’s about Superman in the last year of his life, making the most of it. I didn’t care for Superman until I read it either. Do us both a favor and read it. If you don’t like superheroes, The Walking Dead and Preacher are the pinnacle of non-capeshit comics.

I am from east Europe, and Italian comics are a BIG thing here, so i read in local translation. If i go 5 mins from my building i can get some new-ish issue for 2$, more or less.
But i noticed some parts would be obviously better if i knew Italian or something, since in my language it is harder to achieve the "punch".
I still remember how scared i was of "the plastic man" when i saw the cover of this edition when i was younger.

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>The Walking Dead
>Preacher
Why would you recommend such shit?

I didn’t care about Superman until secret identity, which is also better than most manga I have read

>Naruto

faggot

Comicfags are SEETHING.

Secret Identity was so good.

Believe it!

>reddit spacing
faggot

Swamp thing was good for the first 20 issues but I got kind of bored after that. Also i mentioned it because it's something I can point to and everyone will know what I'm talking about and it fits my point. I can't do the same while mentioning issues 46-50 of the 1983 alpha flight. (not that it fits either i just love alpha flight and that sagas is great)

Magic wind by bonelli.
Good comic.

>Am I being crazy
Nah, you just have horrendous taste

Let's all read manga/watch anime and learn about muscles and become Chads.

youtube.com/watch?v=bKCtlCW2vhU

Do you guys think this is the same faggot who posted the “Why is All Might better than Superman?” thread?

That was my mom's favorite comic growing up, in Yugoslavian translation. That and Blek Stena.

No its just Yea Forums spamming our board mindlessly, again.

I’m a relatively newfag, this happens often?

Yes

>20th century boys
Honestly, not very good. I wouldn't consider it a masterpiece.

That’s how I feel about most “masterpiece” mangas too. Like Eden: it’s an endless world or whatever.

Yeah, Eden isn't very good either. They are both ambitious and huge in scope, but not actually smart or good quality.

Well... those are all sub-par manga at best. I would say Eden is actually bad.
Jisatsutou is a lot better than both of them and I wouldn't consider ti master piece either.

I'm glad we've finally concluded once and for all time that mangas > American comics

...

This. Naruto's world is more or less empty.

>The Walking Dead and Preacher are the pinnacle of non-capeshit comics
They most definitely aren't.

Alan Moore's Swamp Thing on the other hand is superb.

To be fair, there isn't much world-building in cape comics either. Most of them take place in NYC or elsewhere on earth and the only "lore" they have is the baggage of having been in print for fifty years or more.

Honestly if you're looking for solid fantasy or scifi in a mainstream comic OR manga, you're barking up the wrong tree. These are media for brainlets and children.

>naruto is a masterpiece compared to regular capeshit
you have to go back

>There are also many western comics that hardly heard about.
because they are sjw shit tier and nobody buy them retard

I haven’t been able to find the trades. I want to read it. And I could have been more clear, Preacher and TWD are the only comics I’ve ever read that aren’t capeshit, that’s why I think they’re the best, I’m in the middle of The Sandman which is pretty good.

Plenty of people buy them, and they and YA comics and manga outsell cape comics. Retard. If Mickey Mouse hadn't started making them into movies, outside of occasional licensed appearances on little boys' underwear, superheroes would be utterly fucking dead in 2019.

Superhero comics are so supremely irrelevant to the modern world. It's hilarious there's this tiny segment of autists who continue to hold them up like anyone outside their daycare class gives a shit about them.

>Plenty of people buy them
The best-selling comics today are below what was considered cancellation numbers only 20 years ago.

20 years ago june 1999 the highest selling title was Uncanny X-Men #371 with 125,608 units sold, which frankly is not very impressive. Last month's DCeased sold 242,365 for fuck's sake and #2 on the list was Doomsday Clock with 117,419

So how the fuck did you come up with that bullshit?

Where'd you get your numbers from?

comichron

Because color doesn't add nearly enough to make it worth the extra time and effort, Americans just want it because it's what has become expected, Japs are high IQ enough to realize this and get cheaper/quicker products as a result.

It's always cute trying to watch Yea Forums talk about this stuff.

It's the same both ways. Yea Forums doesn't think comics other than capeshit exist, and Yea Forums thinks all manga is shounenshit. Frankly, I'm tired of both capes and shounen manga. I'm tired of shounen-esque and pseudo-intellectual manga being published in seinen magazines, tired of worthless slice-of-life and lame moeshit. Indie and Euro comics are the only comics left that are worth anything. I hope one day capes die off and Japan gets better at writing.

Difference is, you never see Yea Forums claiming they know more about comics than Yea Forums but you see Yea Forums saying they know more about manga than Yea Forums all the time.

But Yea Forums is here now doing just that, and they do the same shit on /ic/.

That list doesn’t make any goddamn sense. If the MCU and Shonen Jump is there, why the fuck is it counting Avengers and SJ shit separately as well? Why the fuck doesn’t it count Marvel and DC as a whole instead of separate? This whole thing makes no fucking sense.

>>BLAME
>Oh god, I realise our tastes will never match
Why not? BLAME is specifically done in the style of 70s French comics, I would have thought it would be perfect for someone that doesn't really like manga.

He asked for manga better than the Sandman, not manga a westerner might like.

The funny thing is that is easy to trigger Yea Forums. The comics Yea Forums like are literally of fanfiction quality but manga has quality problems too. Manga has only their author's but mostly of them don't know how to write because they focus in polishing their art. The masterpieces of both, comic and manga were writted by REAL writters not by "comic/manga writters". Even if they have the same bad quality manga has better sales and a brighter future.

>manga has better sales and a brighter future
I don't know. From the way I've seen manga evolve, I don't know if that's true. Manga today should literature-tier, but it isn't even close. Manga is dumber than ever (I'm talking about seinen too). Western comics hit that mark in the 80s, and gekiga manga got pretty close in the 60s and 70s, but that was full of the same clunkiness present in early literary comics like Corto Maltese. Where is Japan's Watchmen?

>but that was full of the same clunkiness present in early literary comics like Corto Maltese
Fuck you, Corto Maltese is a masterpiece.

What makes Watchmen so special?, the social criticism?, the philosophy?, the "realism"?. Watchmen is a unique work from a real writter. What is the Citizen K of comics, or La Mona Lisa?

Oh boy it's another episode of
"Shonen Jump is the only manga ever" and "Marvel/DC is the only Comics ever"

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You can be better if you survives. Manga has the same publishing structure of the modern literature in the west, both of them publish lot of shit, but they can do better because they sell.

Today's lesson is that
>Manga is better than comics because it doesn't have the baggage of comics but it's held back by the fact retards decide the market and success and editors should die in a fire
and
>Comics are better than manga but could be better without said baggage and the industry should be rehauled by about 40 years

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So have we gone through the "manga is comics" step yet?

It's very good, but also very dated. There are parts of it I love, but it doesn't read as well as more recent comics. What's is/are your favorite Corto Maltese book(s)?
What makes it so special is that there isn't a single manga that comes close to its level of complexity, writing, use of the medium, etc. I don't think that Watchmen is the only comic on its level, let alone the best comic book, but it serves as an ideal specimen of what a comic book can be.

Your wanking Watchmen a bit too much. It's well written in terms of plot and dialogue but I disagree that it makes the most of the medium. In terms of art and visuals it's decent but not amazing or anything. Just serviceable. It could work just as well as a novel.

That's subjective, Watchmen is good but I don't find it that good, it's in Full Metal Alchemist tier for me, but I find the cute anime girls anime Long Riders more inspiring than Superman and that's okay because all of us have diferent backgrounds, a spaniard can feel more, and like more El Guernica than La Mona Lisa just because the first one depicts some of the scars of their country.

>It could work just as well as a novel.
This is a first. Are you aware of the time fuckery in the fourth chapter? Or the symmetrical fifth chapter? Or the silent sequences throughout? Or the match cuts? All of these only work visually, and the first two only work in comic book form.

>Long Riders
I prefer the live action version.
youtube.com/watch?v=vr0MlCjzJak

You can say it has poor worldbuilding but it still has worldbuilding. The 5 nations, the villages, etc.

I appreciate what you said but at that point I wouldn't be sure to tell if they are better of worse, I think it starts to cater to taste at some point. For example, I definitely would agree with when it comes to Watchmen, and when it comes to 20th Century Boys. I think it's not that you can't find a masterpiece, instead, you are trying to find a certain type of story, one that I think you won't find in manga as the way they look at media is pretty much different.

More or less like comparing top American movies to top Asian movies. You quickly realise there are certain themes and attitudes that one approaches and the other one doesn't.

Check out Fukumoto Nobuyuki’s works

*disagree when it comes to 20th Century Boys.

The difference is despite their different attitudes and approach, Japanese masterpiece movies are actual masterpieces. Supposed masterpiece manga, for the most part, are not (e.g. 20th Century Boys). I'm looking for top quality works regardless of nation of origin. I've read great works that were very British, or very French, or very American, or very Argentinean. I've noticed pieces of brilliance in manga here and there, but almost never in the same work. It doesn't necessarily have to be multilayered, but it has to be adult. But you may be right. I may need to revisit some manga I read years ago.
I read Strongest Man Kurosawa and watched a bit of Kaiji and didn't really like either. I also read Seizon Life and it was okay. Akagi and Ten seem better, but I'm going to learn a bit of Mahjong before I tackle those.

Watchmen factually would have been better off as a novel fucko
read comics lol
chill
have sex

What?

Why do weebs have the shittiest taste?

See, Yea Forums insists that comics are dying when...they really are not

Just because that dumbass don't know of the 90's crisis doesn't mean that sales are a fraction of the comercial golden years of cape comics.

*aren't a fraction

Normally I balk at any of this East vs West garbage that pathological Yea Forums-fags try to prop themselves up on, but:

Japanese manga runs pretty much parallel to a lot of common less-popular media, (novels, indie games, lots of them, really). They are generally terrible-to-middling quality, but you're far more likely to find new talent here than looking in the high profile stuff, and very often the multimedia remake is of far lesser quality than the original.

Western comics are different. Somehow they gained this kind of stabilizing tumor of loyal, horrible consumers that the only way to not go under is to pander to them, but pandering to them excludes the possibility of being any degree of quality or run-away profitable.

>sales are worse than when industry was at its peak
Duh?

Nice choice user.
I got a bunch from a friend, he borrowed me many issues to read.
God so many memories.

This. Japan has never produced anything worthwhile and it never will.

>Weekly vs (in that case) monthly,
Even monthly mangas still have better quantity and quality than comics like Attack on Titan.

>Nu-AoT
>better quality
Yikes

What western shit is even close to as good as any of the manga you just mentioned??? Genuine question, not being a dick, I just have absolutely no idea and personally I can't imagine it.

Read more “classics”. Pull up any list, really

If you still don’t agree you just have shit taste desu

The trend user, even with the MCU the sales are shrinking and both will be cannibalized by Disney/Warner if the trend don't change.

Except sales are not shrinking, 2018 is an improvement over 2017. Seriously where does this shit even come from?

you mutts are sick and too autistic.

one of the laughable things amerimutts always say is they somehow always stress "colored pages are superior". i mean, whats the premise? its just because its "beautiful"? lmao

the truth is, they arent superior at all. this is also why your film/game companies are so much into photorealism and ditch 2d. this is about an immersive experience, and probably amerimutts inherently lack some brain mechanism. like they can eat oils infinitely and mindlessly become ugly fatfucks. so cant stop believing it.

How much is from DC/Marvel and how much is from childrens comics or even manga?

None of it is from manga or children’s books my man. Direct market sales to comic shops are up in 2018

Good the industry is not dying, but they can sustain the trend without changing anything?

The fact that numbers today are equal or slightly lower than numbers 20 years ago is a bad sign, though. Growth is key to any industry and population, GDP, comic book market all have grown massively in the last 20 years so the fact that comic book sales haven't is a sign of big problems.

OBSESSED
>i mean, whats the premise? its just because its "beautiful"? lmao
Talk about too autistic, holy shit

Capeshit is much worse than any bog standard battle Shonen,

Equal? Nigger, what numbers are you looking at? It’s literally doubled in 2018

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Are you retarded?

That was my theory but with 80's, early 90's numbers, the industry isn't nearly them but, for now, the trend is reversing

stupid mutt. your industry cant recover anyway because its like a cult. enjoy your autism.

That’s on how they manuveur. Dollar sales were up but units are down (due to cutting among others), continuing cutting would actually bring better results as less money is lost

Today comic industry is what Miyazaki predicted for the anime industry, a incestous creative medium that only cater to a hardcore and tiny consumer base. The big difference is that having your work adapted to anime is easier that your work being published in the US

That's not a good signal, less units is very bad.

They published less iirc, units down is no surprise

That's a problem of the olygopoly, little decisions can taint the data and hurt the entire genre.

>How can comic books improve?

Zoomers dont read comics at all except for a very few SJWs and trannies on Twitter. It will just go extinct.

You don't need to read 345 different series with 23 issues each to grasp what the hell is happening. You can pick a manga and get all the story just by starting reading from chapter one.

You don’t have to do that for comics too. You can easily pick up #1 of any relaunch and go wild

Nobody does that except for the most hardcore fans, though.

see

You just gave him shit for making a generalization and then you made a generalization.

It is actually true. One of the large Japanese publishers has more staff and more artists/writers employed then the three largest US companies combined.

the thing about manga is it just one big story that has a beginning and a end and that's it the end, comics don't have a pilot it just different stories of the week with different writers that keep removing shit, also you have to deal with reboots.

Thanks for making that point. I'm here to learn something about the differences, and I've got an impression that this is valid for a huge amount of products.

?
If you started talking you could maybe find a chink in his argument. But since you didn't, thats just like a 10 year old screaming out his lungs because the toy is green instead of blue.

Manga has editor influence.
For JUMP the goal is for each chapter to have a peak, so the manga can continue having chapters without getting axed. Or trying to convince the author to include stuff like Rivals, or to tone down the manga to increase empathy presented.
For POPULAR manga, things get messy. I.e JUMP ends up owning the IP, and decides that it needs to go on for another hundred chapters.

But the strength of something like JUMP as a magazine, is that it generally doesn't meddle beyond art style(no hypersexual seinen drawing), or trying to give the author a idea of how the pool system works.
Occasionally series go from being middle tier, to getting a TV adaption, and then getting popular. But since the manga has been out for 1-2 years by that point, and has 30-120 chapters, the meddling can't spread roots in the initial product.

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>Creators are free to self-publish
Ecchi magazine -> National distribution for niche title -> National sales level
Self publish > Little to no sales due no distribution mechanism being weak and non existing

What IS fun is that Japs scout web comics, web novels and other garbage. To see if there exists diamands in the rough.
Which means something like ONE can have a few series, get discovered, get a anime and manga, and then get a breaktrough on his other niche series.
For the west, there exists no such mechanism, which diminish the quality of the output, because there is no lower tier of publishing to contrast higher effort works with.

For more argument:
Japan has Keijo!!!!!!!!.
Keijo!!!!!!!!is a niche title that fails to do all it goals, and instead turns out to be the feminist manga of the decade.
Something like Keijo!!!!!!!! would not get national distribution in the West and a TV adaption.

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I think this is part of the problem.
Its the same with Daytime TV, or just other soap series: You suddenly have 13 hours of content per season, but no effort to spend those 13 hours to actually DO SOMETHING on the big screen.
So suddenly a show like Umbrella Academy where the entire storyarc would amount to 30 minutes if it was compressed. A animated childrens show would cover it at a far better pace during 2 episodes. With more fights and more action, and then move on to the next story arc, and actually get somewhere.

This is on top of problems like adaption dishonesty: where the writers is incapable of salvaging the good stuff from the medium the source material is in. Usually with terrible excuses like "it would be too wacky" or "it wouldn't do well on TV".

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Don't forget the doujinshi

Generally coloring is lazy and poorly done user.
This isn't the 60s anymore, where a lot of effort is spent to make strides and paces from the technical limitation of coloring and magazine palettes.
Generally coloring are lazy and uninspired, on top of reducing detail due detail increasing workload.

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>"measely" 19 pages and a small page dimensions (12.8 × 18.2 cm)
>"whopping" 22 pages per issue and significantly larger dimensions (16.84 x 26.01 cm)

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From the thumbnail I thought there was a dildo in front of Ed's face.

Honestly what is good about that Naruto page? It’s the exact same tier as the magick page in terms of writing, which is bland and mediocre, even when you’re comparing a major story beat vs a random page

I know right? 3 pages isn’t that fucking much. That was the first inkling that OP is a retard.

The first inkling should be the goddawful comparison in the image

I wouldn't exactly agree that Watchmen, Maus, Sandman or Love and Rockets is better than Akametsu or Phoenix.
Maus is essentially underutilizing a medium to tell a honest story, where most of the impact comes from honest portrayal without turning it into preaching. On top of a double layer story where the author realizes he lacks the seal to preach the cause of Zion, because most of the terrible sterotypes are in the end true.
Maus has great qualities, but its limited by its scope as a Holocaust story to truly have artistic value.

In fact, manga has one BIG problem: Most series are written in magazines where each chapter needs to have a peak, so a lot of effort is spent to have a minor peak each chapter instead of having proper buildup to the next set of events.
Its what used to set apart some of the better written manga, because they also spent time in each chapter to do setup for later parts.
For worse series, this means EACH CHAPTER must have diluted or terrible drama. I.e Zetman.
I would argue series like Zetman is the posterchild of the bad manga qualities, since stuff like a peak for each chapter makes it readable despite length. But its pretty terrible because the concept isn't worked out to go somewhere.

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I honestly didn’t bother looking at it.

I appreciate what Tezuka was attempting with Phoenix, but it still doesn't measure up the comics I listed. As limited as it is, and even though it isn't one of my favorite comics, even Maus was better. Having a big message about/for humanity doesn't make something a work of art. It could be about almost nothing and still be art. Akumetsu is simply no good.

children of the sea isn't a masterpiece by any strech of the imagination, stop pretending.

i fucking love ishinomori, tezuka or urasawa tho

>children of the sea isn't a masterpiece
I agree, but neither is anything Urasawa has done.

why do we have multiple threads on Japan everyday?

Because we have a bunch of people who want to feel superior to others by supporting a product over another while neither side buys either product and just pirates it.

Fuck Yea Forums and fuck Yea Forums