Why are big two comics so BAD these days?

It disputes OP's premise that big two comics are "so bad these days". OP didn't even offer anything to address, either. They just made a statement without establishing their position, despite the burden of proof being on them for making the claim.

So OP should start by explaining their reasons for why they think big two comics are bad now. Then we can discuss them.

>SJW shit is basically gone from comics at this point

... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

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Accepting women and minorities, and by extension treating them as equals, isn't SJW shit.

>all the same SJW writers, editors, and artists still work there
>ALL FIXED YOU GUYS

The action plot reached it's limits. You just can have a limited number of ombiversal threats, the status quo too, they're no real development of the characters.

>Liberals
>Human beings with a mind of their own

>Conservatives
>Human beings with a mind of their own

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Isn't your image proving his point?

>muh politics
How to make a shitty thread even shittier.

Yes, it's almost like that, yet still not. I've yet to know a liberal that even attempts empathy or seen another's viewpoint.

The Big 2 are fucked because all they think about is making fucking movies that shit on the original material.
If DC Animated can take The Dark Knight Returns and includes 95% of the om and doesn't stick in Batgirl fucking Batman, you'd think Marvel could produce a fucking Dark Phoenix Saga without a million suits fucking shit up. Hell, even the writers/directors fuck it up. A cartoon from 1992 is the closest thing we've had to the Claremont/Byrne/Austin classic. A Cosmic force but you can't go to space because fucking Carol Danvers (don't even allude that her 'fire powers (suck term but couldn't think of a better while watching the debate) came from a Claremont/Cockrum X-Men storyline). The movies wouldn't bother me if (1) I hadn't been reading comix on and off since Star Wars came out in 77 (6 yrs old) and (2) the shit they change in the movies are expected to be slapped into the books cos Disney synergy. Muggle Zooms don't even realize when Cap and Avengers came around, they were based more on the Ultimate Universe than the 616. Now the white Nick Fury isn't even acknowledged. Not that I don't like Sam Jackson, but white Fury has been there since 1963. Disney better not fuck up X-men and FF any more than Fox did but we thought they'd do better than Lucas did with SW 1-3. Instead we get SJW lessons instead of Star Wars.

See
>Yea Forums every single Wednesday
It's like asking to prove that water is wet. You're here, and it's Wednesday, so I'm not sure why you're being intentionally dense.

Yes. Just another dogmatic idiot

.... It is. No one is equal to anyone else, Morality dictates we all deserve equal opportunity to determine how unequal we are.

hey dumdum I didn't say anybody was equal, I said treating them as equals

Why would you lie to people? You are horrible.

we're getting a new doom patrol book and a new x-statix book next month, I'd say things are pretty good.

>turn every character into a nigger
>"WTF WHY DO YOU HATE NIGGERS?"
Well, because despite being 13% of the population, they are responsible for 50% of the violent crime.
In addition to that, I gotta say that turning all my old favorite characters into niggers had the opposite effect of "WTF I LOVE NIGGERS NOW".

hahaha yes we sure do live in a clown society my fellow honkler

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This! GAMERS RISE UP

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The "SJW" themes aren't really being used in comics like they were in 2014-16. Left-leaning doesn't mean SJW.

Does anyone still pay money for comics? I imagine that's part of the problem. It's not really a legitimate career anymore so you mostly have bottom of the barrel retards doing how quality garbage in their free time outside the hours of their real job working for Amazon or Uber.

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These entertainment industrys are selling all there shit to propagandizes, they will not give up, we must move on, gain skills, contacts, associates, build a business, start a family, be moral, teach morals, these are the things the are inevitably trying to destroy.

They're both owned by Multibillion dollar corporations that see them as I.P farms. They could care less about interesting stories and want to create the most easiest gruel the public can consume and do it for cheap. It's not about making something good, it's about making the product consumable for the most amount of people for profit.

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pandering to normalfags and moviecasuals

Wouldn't they sell more if they weren't complete shit?

They're drafts user. The best ideas will be taken and given to script writers for their adaptations

But the ideas are shit.
Its not like we're going to have a West Coast Avengers movie or some shit.

The premise user that what's matter to them. Comics are thd first draft, cartoons the second one and the finalized product are the movies.

What was the post?

I hate to say it, but I'm a supporter of gay rights and trans bullshit but some of these comics these days are out of hand...I can tell when I'm being force-fed a narrative and that's NOT why I read comics. If the story sucks than what's the point?!

HA HA HA you slayed me with that one ^_^

People buy subs to digital distribution services, and I guess a few buy physical copies. I believe it's a very profitable field if you consider that there are almost 50 new movies being developed based on comic books. I'd say the scene has never been bigger or more influential.

>This

Do you think the big two will last long enough to hit a couple of hundred year anniversaries? I mean many people are hyping up comics as some kind of new mythology. It's be a shame if it can't even last that long.

If they do "survive" that long, it will be long after everyone quit actually reading their SJW garbage, and only kept afloat by their parent companies.

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BASED

CRINGE

DILATE

YIKES

>Do you want a continuation of the old Spidey trilogy?
>Naw fuck you, have this hack director's son make a Spider-man story

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Incest and cheapness.
To begin with, the suits in charge of these companies refuse to hire outside of their small group of friends and associates. There's shockingly little new blood coming into cape comics these days, and the ones they do bring in aren't comic people. They're YA writers looking for a break. The best periods in cape history are when big batches of new comic creators were brought in when the bigwigs were willing to risk it.
Secondly, they're being cheap. Neither company has a strong editorial staff any more, and the ones that remain are either too overworked or just don't care, so they let writers and artists get away with sloppy bullshit that wouldn't have passed muster even ten years ago.
When tracing a problem, it's usually best to look at the corporate side of things. Half of the bad books we get would probably be at least passable if they had an editor willing to slap their shit in and tell them to do it again or they won't get paid.

HAVE SEX

They're always been bad. Just went from tolerable dumb fun to insufferable lazy soapbox political pandering.

This is accurate.

They are discussing things like that on Youtube all the time: Comicsgate. Also about alternatives: youtube.com/watch?v=TF32cDFIs1A

I googled some winners of Eisner awards for comparison and LMAO.

indiegogo.com/projects/monster-m-d/
indiegogo.com/projects/shinobi-sasquatch-book-one

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lol

Alright, consider this: They stopped writing thinking on the medium of comics and started writing thinking on movies, this days comic books are glorified story boards, a place to try plots and characters without consequence because the main objective it's to test how they'll later fare in the big screen.
That's why they want to replace old heroes, so they can replace actors who get old. That's why they retcon so fast, because the current story isn't working for the studio and they might reboot the franchise. They did this things before, but thinking on the comic book medium, they do not do it like that this days and that's what you're sensing.

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Because the behavior of the small "microcosmic testing grounds" wing of publicly traded multi-national megacorporations, most of who's money comes from B2B deals anyway, have no obligation to serve the consumer.

>Huge cross-over events with HIGH STAKES that are global level at minimum, multi-universe at most, almost every year
>Releasing multiple spin-offs involving bit characters of mainstream titles that only serves to convolute the overall plot of flagship title, as well as the spin-off, that most readers will not follow
>Hiring "writers" who have never written anything in their lives involving comics, let alone superheroes, because Marvel is either frugal like a Jew or honestly believes they can put anything, and still have a dedicated fan base with the most minimal effort involved
>Constant resurrection of characters that have been dead for decades, while introducing new characters that new readers have never heard of or take in interest again for both cases

And this isn't mentioning Marvel's "politics" or their obsession of trying emulate the MCU's success.

They aren't . It's about the same as it ever was. Maybe you've changed? Maybe take a break? Try some new books? The early 00s were actual dire times

This post is incorrect.

based

All of these complaints are idiotic.

People love crossovers, sales actually go down when you don't do crossovers. Nobody is forcing you to read spin-offs if you don't want.

And really? You're whining that Marvel is cultivating new talent? You sound like a boomer who hates everything new and different.

His main complaint is stupid, because they don't hire new, inexperienced talent. Its just an incestuous clusterfuck of the same writers who have already proven they cant write for shit, repeatedly.
And by the same measure, they're not "cultivating new talent" either.
Who the fuck at Marvel or DC is going to teach anyone how to write a comic?
Bendis?
Thompson?

It's just a one shot.

Say whatever you want, it's because the fans are bad nowadays. Mentally stunted boomers and MCU/CWfags are the only ones reading capeshit nowadays, and they want MCU/CW in comic form. Something like Starman or Hitman won't sell in today's markets. Fans are more into continuity defining shit and crossovers. They don't want good writing and art, they only care about their favorite character being wanked. You can't write flawed characters nowadays. HEAT would've been mainstream today.

COPE

If nuMarvel comics were anything remotely anything like the MCU, they wouldn't be such shit.
At the height of the MCU's popularity, their garbage SJW comics were pushing Whor, Miles, Riri, Nazi Cap, etc. etc.

They're trying to be as safe and bland as MCU to target the lowest common denominator. Doesn't matter if it's Whor or Thor. No longer will they put out something like X-Statix or Miller's Daredevil.

>Who the fuck at Marvel or DC is going to teach anyone how to write a comic?

DC actually has held a new talent workshop for several years now. It's headed by Scott Snyder. You often see the talent cultivated through that to program put out work in DC's one-off anthologies, like their winter and summer specials. Marvel also occasionally tests out new talent through similar superfluous publications, but not as frequently and in as recognizable format.

It's too political. Everybody wants to shove their politics into the stories and tell their readers about their opinions through the comics. That and too many writers wanting to make sure they leave some kind of lasting impression/legacy on a character, and then the next guy decides he hates it and undoes it, adding to wildly confusing or inconsistent characterizations (Moon Knight and Hawk Man are the worst examples of this, but now even more mainstream characters are starting to drift into this sort of territory). And when that gets out of hand, if it's Marvel they just sort of sweep it under the rug and hope everybody's too distracted, stupid, or apathetic for it to matter, or if it's DC they decide to reboot the whole damn universe every few years when things get remotely complicated.

Basically, they need to fire nearly every writer and treat the new ones more like easily replaceable unskilled workers. There's a fuckload of aspiring writers out there that would kill to write for a big two comic publication. Like, don't try and jam your politics into the story, you do that you get fired. Don't fuck up an established backstory or characterization, the characters and stories don't belong to you, they belong to the company, you do that you get fired. You're not here to be free and express yourself, you want that you go make your own comic with Image or whoever the fuck, your freedom means nothing. You're here to tell stories about a guy who wears tights in public and punches evil guys that also wear tights, that is your only job and if you suck at it or can't play by the rules we'll find somebody else who can.

The whole workshop thing is stupid. They have Snyder teaching a bunch of established writers. Not that I'm saying that DC should hire a bunch of nobodies, but what's the purpose of their workshops. None of those writers ever got a writing gig at DC.

>but what's the purpose of their workshops.

Teach how to write comics, because writing novels, etc. is different from comics. Snyder was a novelist before he started writing comics, so it makes sense for him to teach the workshop.

>You're here to tell stories about a guy who wears tights in public and punches evil guys that also wear tights
This is why the big two are in their current state. It's brainlets writing for brainlets.

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Protip: Bendis is the guy that wrote this scene, you zoomer

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So, why don't Tynion, Tomasi and Lobdell write any good comics if they've been writing them for a long time? Meanwhile, Gaiman and Joe Hill hit a home run in their first go.

Tynion, Tomasi and Lobdell have written good comics. You're complaining about shit that is completely subjective now.

Yes, the writers think they're doing some big special thing about insight into the human condition or some such hogwash, when it is and always should be dumb fun escapism. Honesty is best. Be honest with your audience and more importantly, yourself, about what you're writing and it's quality will improve.

>Tynion, Tomasi and Lobdell have written good comics.

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What a great rebuttal.

They can't decide whether they want the benefits of one big, always evolving universe or a bunch of small, self-contained stories with a few recurring characters, so they try to have both and end up with neither. Having a huge pile of information full of contradictions, redundancies, and inconsistencies is unappealing.

BY YOUR AUTISM COMBINED, I AM CAPTAIN Yea Forums!

It doesn't work because the vast majority of comic writers are are left of the bell curve when it comes to IQ.
Their insights are fucking retarded.
This is made hilariously worse when they try to use "genius" characters to push their retarded insights.

>Hmmm how to write this genius character
>Well obviously if they're a genius they must share my insights and political views
>Aaaaand done.

Superhero comics haven't been about dumb punching since the silver age. This is some MCU revisionism and repeated by casuals. Go back to plebbit.

After the genre was established by hard-working, creative men, it was re-invigorated by driven, creative men, exploited by people with more ambition than talent and now abused by people with high ideals, deep-seated psychological issues or a desperate need for recognition they don't deserve.
There are some luminaries left, but with Jason Aaron riding high at Marvel and Bendis over at DC I don't think there is much hope.

Hating on men, even if you're a man yourself, is.
"Representing" minorities by making them a very prominent presence everywhere is.
Parodying and mocking people who are not like you and whom you do not understand very ironically is.

management being out of touch, the brevoort method, failing to embrace how people want to consume comics leading to fans flocking to pirate sites better at delivering content, and "inmates running the asylum"

Why are you oppressing me with your MRA-SJW shit?

Decades of horrible decisions culminating in what could be the greatest shitshow in entertainment.
>CCA blanket bans all non-kid comics. Bill Gaines get laughed out of Congress trying to stop it and they call comics a medium for kids.
>The hiring of gatekeepers mysteriously coincides with the cancellation of non-cape comics...which were selling more than cape comics.
>DC fucks ups the IP rights to Watchman, which Moore has decried very publicly for decades.
>Big 2 causes the comics crash in the 90’s which ironically solidifies their death grip on the industry. It also gives us the wonders of Diamond.
>The panic hiring of political writers once they realized that movies can’t make people read comics to complement the mediocre writers they already had.
>Still selling floppies
>Still relying on LCS
>Still doing that shit that crashed the market in the 90’s
You don’t get to a point where Japan and Europe slaughter you on an international level from just a few dangerhairs or casualgators.

Haven't the "comicsgate" comics been obscenely profitable?
I don't get why the big two don't get on that train, write a comic that goes "*le dabs on SJWs*", and make a few billion easy bucks at almost no cost.

You are most likely wrong. If that was the case, more comics would be sold.

There seems to be a flood of bad comics, a lot of them SJW influenced, but they are not selling so well and are often not profitable for the shops even if they sell some of them.

Caesar says many recent comics are only made by people which want to have a tv-show or a movie. They use comics as a showcase. Also, yes the SJW with their political agenda. Both groups don't care about the comics and the traditional readers, they mostly even despise them.

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They made money, but I wouldn’t call them good. Generic 90’s writing that dips pretty damn low at points. The artists for Zach’s comics were also terrible and one by a different guy was just a MHA parody.

>They made money, but I wouldn’t call them good.
I wouldn't say they were good either. My point was that they were massively profitable, and their selling point seemed to be mainly "fuck SJWs".
They were also indie "literal whos". With the stranglehold DC and Marvel have over the market, it would be child's play to quadruple those profits with minimal effort, just by going "fuck SJWs".

Hey what comic is that from?

I stopped reading Marvel after secret empire. I don't have standards for capeshit, but ANAD was fucking atrocious. Like a lot of other mediums it seems the election turned everyone in the office into blabbering retards.
DC, I only read Batman and GL. Only GL now because Tom King's run is a pretentious snorefest.

>obscenely profitable

No. All you're doing is getting bunch of small group of retards throw money at projects they think will "own the libs!" It's only profitable if you're out to milk these retards out of all of their money by playing into their preferred version of identity politics.

>All you're doing is getting bunch of small group of retards throw money at projects they think will "own the libs!"
But all Marvel and DC have been doing for awhile now is getting a small group of retards to throw money at projects they think will "own the conservatards", except they're not even successful at it, because nobody's throwing money at it.

>it would be child's play to quadruple those profits

That's falsely assuming people already buying their comics would also keep buying them, when the opposite is the case. Look at how well Rob Liefeld comics sell whenever he does Marvel or DC books. They don't sell well. And nobody is going to let "FUCK SJWS!!" shit taint their family friendly corporate IPs.

>taint
But that's literally a selling point.

Zdarsky's Daredevil any good?

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SJWs, Status quo producing reliable sales and really bad writers and editors. Nepotism might be a factor. It's fucked. The big two have barely moved their stories since the 80s.

It's really mediocre.

Not to mention readers flocking to manga subgenres (despite it too suffering from its own diminishing returns)

>That's falsely assuming people already buying their comics
Nobody's buying their comics, because everyone dropped them after all the SJW shit and never returned.

Wait, manga is suffering too? That's news to me.

They fell for the progressive protection racket

>They fell for the progressive protection racket
This.
If some cucks from "CBR" or "Bleeding Cool" tell me to read something, that means you can skip it.

checked
It's true. And it's always the same answer.
>Why should I read this?
>It has gays and black people in it which makes it legendary by default

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>People love crossovers, sales actually go down when you don't do crossovers.
People get bored of crossovers, especially if new audiences who care about the other half of one faction of the cross-over, but not the other. I remember Claremount's run on the X-men, his issues were popular because he rarely mentioned the Avengers, Hulk, Spider-man, or any other flagship title that was running at the time. It was self-contained, and many new readers tell me his run was the easiest to get into for them, because of it. You can act like crossovers are a big deal that sells issues, but most readers, from my experience, simply aren't interested. Watchmen, Vertigo Comics, and Frank Miller's work such as Sin City pretty much followed Claremount's lead on this. If you want new readers, you keep the story self-contained as possible with the same writer and artist, colorist, and editor for as many issues as possible.
> Nobody is forcing you to read spin-offs if you don't want
No one's really interested, either. Given how many spin-offs are cancelled. But when you're given a cross-over event, many spin-off characters are involved, and the issue usually states to the reader what X character has been doing by referencing the specific issue of the spin-off they're in. Again, most readers, who aren't die-hard comic book fans, but make up the majority of the fan base aren't going to read it. Casual readers are want Marvel wants, so it baffles me that they keep doing cross-o

>And really? You're whining that Marvel is cultivating new talent? You sound like a boomer who hates everything new and different.
You can get new talent for are actually experienced writers and artists in the industry. Not someone like Zoe Quinn or that minority Professor, who are hires, simply because of their minority status. Get some actual new talent with experience. Not someone who has zero experience in the field.

no editing

>>Do you want a continuation of the old Spidey trilogy?
>>Naw fuck you, have this hack director's son make a Spider-man story

Nepotism, gatekeeping, and cronyism been slowly killing comics for a long time now the. You basically end up hiring people that you're too afraid to fire when they fuck up

That's because the bosses are fucking them, and will take you to court for sexual harassment as soon as you stop.

Back to T_D with you pls

Name three presently ongoing comics in the big two that could be credibly described as SJW books. You can use google, because I know you don't read actually read comics.

fpbp

Physical manga is falling in sales but the digital market is growing more

SEETHE

there are plenty of liberals that are disturbingly unempathatic, and there are conservatives that are empathetic and vice versa.
The world isn't black and white user.

They've been going on too long. Stories aren't meant to go on forever. What the fuck kind of character development are you really expecting from characters who have been around for 60-80 years? Stories are either going to be:

1. Retreads of old stories, either literal "reboots" or stories so similar to old ones they might as well be.
2. Weird out-of-character stories that totally ignore established traits just to do something new.

There's no other place for them to go, so we're going to get endless shit forever.

They have to change things to keep it fresh but they can't change things too much away from normal.

Yeah, I know, that was bait.

they can concentrate on under-used characters but of course they dont

US superhero comics are (without the supposed SJW's) the same as japanese web novels and light novels then, both are written to be TV shows and that's why they are bad.

>OLD GOOD
>NEW BAD
very original

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They are both owned by evil megacorporations now