What was the worst thing to come out of the initial New 52 launch?

I would've been okay with that, especially for GL and how concrete the ending was. Would've also saved the headache of trying to make sense of the N52 continuity with GL's being intact.

Hey, his sleeves are rolled up like in Sense of Right Alliance!

Yeah, condensing all of Batman´s history into 5 years is just stupid.

Yea Forums being detached from reality about how well it sold

They didn't do that because fans would throw a thermonuclear meltdown and it would also have the bonus effect of making Batman's books and the Green Lantern books unimportant and kill their sales, because no one will buy the New 52 continuity version and just buy the ones set in the past continuity finishing up said runs. Which would also make other writers demand the same thing, which would defeat the whole point of the reboot.

too easy

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Or Mister Terrific, or the terrible Static Shock book

Why did they have to replace Martian Manhunter with Cyborg? Why can't there just be 8 OG JL members?

I thought Batman had existed five years before JL started and therefore was actually around for ten?

Because movie synergy.

There weren't any JL movies at that time. It was because Johns wanted a black dude in the JL but didn't want to use Jon Stewart.

Justice League was pretty fucking terrible

If they were going to replace Martian Manhunter it should have been for another woman. Zatanna or Vixen. Cyborg was just the team bus

The integration of Wildstorm's Characters was the worst.

This

This was god awful if I remember

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There were, however, JL movies being planned. It's the same deal as Bendis Guardians where the GOTG movie wasn't out yet, but Bendis was tailoring his run to what he'd heard of the movies and gunning for his and Mcniven's versions to be the one that gets adapted.

The only sweet justice from his run is that Gunn literally told the cast to avoid reading the Benis run.

They should have let them finish their damn story then reboot or let them still work in a separate universe so the reboot could work
I mean it's Johns and Morrison

Oh yeah, that went over like a lead balloon. Remember the Daemonite Invasion? What a embarrassing fucking clusterfuck. I cannot imagine having that giant hardbound trade with all the NU52 #1s. Like 5 good comics, topis?

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Skinny lobo

The 10 years thing came much later in the build up to Rebirth (since Post-Crisis Superman was also around secretly for 10 years in the new52 due to Convergenc)

hahahaha. Fuck.

That wasn't in the initial 52 launch. You got a classic looking Lobo for a while, although his story was very inconsistent depending on his appearance. It was only by the time all the Wildstorm stuff got thrown away that we got NuLobo "killing" the real Lobo.

It amazes me how edgy this run was.

I get your point 100%, but I'm gonna argue that this is the best thing to come out of the New 52 launch because it's the only good stories that make any sense anymore.

They shot themselves in the foot day zero.

Why was there so much red in the New 52 redesigns?

I'd actually argue the reverse. The new 52 initially had several soft reboots that referenced previous continuity and that did just fine. In fact, before its launch, they refused to call it a "reboot" since they didn't want to anger existing fans.

There was no reason to double down on it and pretend all past continuity was dead just because the reboot was successful afterwards.

If they were successful in the first place WHY mess with them further and retcon ties with past continuity?

I'm reading Doomsday Clock and they act like major events like 52 and Infinite Crisis happen but both Ted Kord and The Question are there (two characters who were not alive in this current form when New 52 started)

why am I suppose to take anything seriously?

Isn't Doomsday Clock partially about how Manhattan has fucked up the timeline so nothing exactly makes sense (legit asking, haven't read it)? It's comic book-y explanation but it works.

It's literally being ignored by the rest of DC, so treat it as an elseworld

Even if that's the case it doesn't explain why Ted Kord has been a prominent figure in BB Rebirth.

I kind of miss some of the new 52 desu. Dial H, Swamp Thing, Red Lanterns when Soule jumped on, Animal Man, Batman and Robin, Lemire Green Arrow, those 4 issues of Suicide Squad Ales Kot did, and Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE. Even JL3000 was pretty fun.

I even liked Batman fuck you guys that book was hype every month

Of course the majority of the books were bad. I'm surprised Red Hood and the Outlaws is still a thing to this day.

>I'm surprised Red Hood and the Outlaws is still a thing to this day.
Because the idea in of itself isn't bad. I'm more surprised about how Scott Lobdell was actually put on the rebirth comic and he's actually decent.

Me and my friends used to clown on this hard. We called it "Teen Edgelords".

That barcode logo wasn't intended to be scanned, right? I don't think the whole thing runs uninterrupted at any point.

Nah, it was being thrown around in early N52 too that everyone was active for five years except Batman was ten.

I remember that, what made Batman so special timeline-wise for that?

Probably so Morrison's narrative using classic Batman history still kind of made sense.They never publicly said this but it's a fair bet.

New 52 was no better and no worse than any other Big 2 relaunch. There were shit books and great books just like always. But the man children got mad about “Muh continuity” while DC editorial fucking rushed the reboot before getting everyone on the same page.

All of it was bad. Like others have said it was a clusterfuck with no sensible editorial direction. What was in continuity? What wasn't? Nobody knew. We still don't know. One of the biggest creative failures in DC history

>no sensible editorial direction. What was in continuity? What wasn't? Nobody knew. We still don't know. One of the biggest creative failures in DC history
The same thing sort of happened after CoIE.
Only, their stance seemed to be "assume everything from 1975 onwards happened, but on one Earth."
The decade that followed allowed them to rewrite old stories and change origin stories, and CoIE was always the excuse for why some origins were different

Well that and zero hour.

But Rebirth is canon, The Button is canon, and Wally coming back is canon...
What?

this was the worst, i can't really think of 1 actually good aspect of this team
the reimagininged origins were awful
Swan Drake is possibly the worst costume any Robin has ever had (yes even worse than Elf boots) which sucks becuase Tim always had good suits
Bunker maybe be good
But what this book showed us what an undeniable hack Lobdell is

there was so much marketing spent on this reboot and it actually did get asses in shops to buy comics
but why was editorial clueless on what to do?

Because it was forced on them by WB.

Scott Snyder let it slip out that Doomsday Clock is being treated as its own separate thing during an interview about him bringing the JSA back into the main DCU

I'm surprised Bleeding Cool didn't pick up on that.

newsarama edited the interview and removed that part a few hours later.
Whoops.

How did Batman lose his memory? I never read anything before new 52 except for the big top ten list stories.

That whole thing was so odd and desperate from them. I still have nightmares about McNiven's power Ranger tier "Movie Ready!" Redesigns.

There were a lot of bad decisions for the New 52.

-Bad main Superman design (everyone still saw the costume as armor no matter how much Jim Lee was saying that it wasn't armor)
-Lack of coordination (Too many to mention)
-No real plan on what counted and what didn't (too many to mention)
-Relaunching Action and Detective (Morrison's name would've still gotten high sales on Action and the shock ending of Joker getting his face cut off would've still boosted Detective sales. It was a needless number relaunch)
-Wildstorm getting poorly integrated (when DC integrated the Charlton heroes we got Blue and Gold. Most of the Wildstorm integration didn't work other than Midnighter and Apollo, and maybe having Helspont as a Superman villain.
-The whole idea of the Justice League forming only five years ago (this just compresses too many things)
And some other things I can't remember. I know that I kind of lost interest in most of the New 52 stuff maybe two or three years in. There were still some decent titles though, and I'd still say that even in spite of my problems with Snyder's Batman it's still better than King's Batman.

I will say this though, places like Comics Alliance and some people from Comics Journal and whatnot were very heavily dumping on the New 52. The New 52 wasn't great, but it wasn't 90-100% shithouse as everyone was crying about.

Johns wrote Hal for a long time
Johns also worked on that GL film that Ryan Reynolds was in
WB planned to make a cinematic universe starting with GL
It's pretty easy to connect the dots.

In some ways it's kinda understandable because if you can get some sort of acknowledgement then people might be interested in the books you're working on.

But holy fuck there were some bad decisions during Bendis GOTG.

>maybe having Helspont as a Superman villain.
I have absolutely zero knowledge of Wildstorm so when he showed up as some last page big reveal it just confused the fuck outta me

I might be misremembering but didn't Nu52 totally fuck Green Lantern Corps?

They tried so hard to push this shit into the movies despite the fact the concept art presented at Comic Con showed them looking like how they did in the DnA run

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Only in the spinoffs. Does anybody remember New Guardians?

I just dont understand their reasoning, the movie was way beyond preproduction already, they really thought they were going to entice them into a desperate shift in directiin just to match the new comic aesthetic?

The Bendis run launched in March 2013, but remember that Bendis would've still been part of the Creative Committee before that.

Too much to chose from, but i'll say TT for the drastic drop they had and in which they still are.

Catwoman coimg out as bisexual.

So DClock is still canon and Manhattan will reboot the universe again?

Nope it wasn't. They had N52 Superman active during Year Zero in a tie-in comic. There was no 10 years timeline in the beginning. Batman was said to be active before the 5 years from the start, but it was never said to be something as long as 10 years before the lead up to Rebirth.

>implying you can stop the world's finest writers
Didio knew it was a fight he couldn't win.

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Can we all agree that Aquaman came out of the New 52 the best? Not saying it was the best comic but it elevated his popularity like it was the 80s and 90s again.

No, they just don't want to kill Doomday's Clock sales.

Turning Harley into Deadpool.

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>All of it was bad

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The entire Reboot itself

I tried so hard to rationalize or lean into the idea, but the cosmic question just made goddamn sense

It was just a waste of what could have been a million other nu52 Questions

Cancerous shill nonsense posting detected

And Didio drove out the team behind that.

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Skinny Lobo wasn't that bad though

I think I agree with this. Don't forget a lot of really bad redesigns and overhauls of characters, like nuLobo. Also >If they were going to replace Martian Manhunter it should have been for another woman. Zatanna or Vixen. Cyborg was just the team bus
Exactly. OG7 + Zee is literally the perfect JL team.

I'm more appreciative that we got it at all than I am angry that it was shitbinned for retarded editorial reasons.

wtf is that costume for superboy jesus

>No better and no worse
I disagree. Rebirth and the past two Marvel relaunches were far worse.

>or let them still work in a separate universe so the reboot could work
I remember posting this on Yea Forums in 2011. It's so obvious and Johns and Morrison were relatively close to finishing anyway.

old men bitching about stupid shorts

DC to telling the world that not only was Cyborg an A-lister now but he ALWAYS was.

>Justice League Dark,
>Most books with C-List or below heroes (Resurrection Man, Mister Terrific, Rose & Thorn etc.)
>Every Superman family book
>All the (somehow) even more boring than capeshit non capeshit(Men of War, Threshold etc.)

I'm honestly surprised DC didn't collapse outright from this. These books were all a miserable slog to read even 1 issue of.

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Yeah. They should have just let a handful of books finish in the old continuity.

Then again, they should have spent more than just a few months planning out how to reboot all of DC's history and relaunch every single title of their company.

It is fucking amazing that they went right to new #1s with hardly any break. They had planned the entire restructure of their company with the same time they spend on a summer event. It was a rushed mess. Then again, they didn't seem to have bothered seeing out the best and the brightest anyway. Just whoever was in their old Rolodex. It reeked of cronyism. Hell. Fucking Scott Lobdell and Rob Liefeld were headlining books. Rejects from Marvel and Wizard Magazine were editors calling their old buddies to run the asylum.

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That came somewhat later. They first turned her into a meth head juggalo reject. That redesign by Conner, as bad as it still is compared to the classic design, is a step up from the New 52 design.

Was it just me or was the New52 made mostly by people who didn't realize all the mistakes the comics industry made in the 90s? They seemed to double down on the bad overhyped crap from the 90s.

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Three books for Scott Lobdell, Tony Daniel on Detective, Liefeild on everything, Harras's Marvel buddies shitting everything up, etc. Anyone who says Rebirth is worse is a fucking liar.

Yes. It was run by Bob Harras and Jim Lee and all their assorted friends from the 90s. It was practically Heroes Reborn done with DC character, but longer and much worse.

The same Scott Lobdell who wrote one of the best books of Rebirth. Proves my point, doesn't it?

This is another good point, they had a really bad Harley design when the New 52 started. Conner's redesign was a vast improvment by comparison.

I know my gay Mexican friend didn't like Bunker. (He must have read those issues between crossing the border to unplug our braindead ladies.)

>It was practically Heroes Reborn
Damn. That is a good point. Maybe I did think of it back in the day... but I do try not to think of those days when I was a young fool who bought Liefeld Cap.

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I'm still not sure how Lobdell made Red Hood LESS edgy and Teen Titans MORE edgy when the nu52 happened.

What Marvel relaunch are they on? It seemed Marvel was rebooting things every other year even when I quit reading a decade ago. To be fair, I feel it is part of Marvel's brand. That made a DC reboot feel so odd, even if it had been a long while since Crisis.

The entire New 52 had an awful art direction. Everything was jagged yet blurry at the same time, all the colors were too sharp and didn't blend well, all the costumes and paneling was awful. It was like there was an editorial order to be ugly as sin going into it.

2011 was the first “hEY rEMEMBER tHE 90s” phase. This screams bad Image teen comic.

>Don't forget a lot of really bad redesigns and overhauls of characters, like nuLobo.

Yeah, there were a lot of redesigns that didn't make any sense, like New 52 Harley, but at least that was improved somewhat by Amanda Conner. People bring up Chinspike Midnighter but other than the Chinspike the New 52 costume doesn't work for me.

Superman sticks out to me because I could see that the plated suit really wasn't working based on reactions from people online and offline, and they kept that suit for five years (even though there was that brief period he was powered down again during DCYou and wearing the t-shirt).

>that continuity and reboots
Continuity IS a joke you idiot. There’s no way you can keep 80 years of continuity intact.
Some characters benefitted from the reboot, and Aquaman was definitely one of them. Pre-Flashpoint “Orin” and Post-Flashpoint “Arthur” are practically two different characters. Frankly the reboot did wonders for Aquaman.

Gee. I wonder who was in charge of that.

Man. As much as I like Jim Lee's art, I can't stand his dedign choices. At least not with DC characters. They seem like lefrovers from 90s Wildstorm. Hell, even when he redesigned Huntress for Hush I thought it was crap.

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I don’t know how you could possibly say Rebirth was worse.

>Hell, even when he redesigned Huntress for Hush I thought it was crap.

Yeah I never got how people liked that design, the 90's one was better.

Not really since Lobdell’s new 52 books were all shit. I’d say it completely disproves your point, Lobdell was terrible during the New 52 but got decent during Rebirth.

>it's been EIGHT YEARS since The New 52 hit
hello darkness my old friend

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I think it both hurt the reboot and hurt those runs. I was glad I had alrrady dropped GL. I couldn't figure how the hell the epic history of GL the run was based on worked with the short frame of the new timeline.

Most hilarious was that he gave her a belly window in her costume right after getting shot in the stomach by Joker. I know Huntress is a crazy Catholic chick with somewhat of a death wish, but she isn't that dumb.

It’s because the New 52 was a rushed job. No one has said exactly why the New 52 happened, but the popular reason is that WB took notice of the comic book industry’s shit sales and told Didio to get sales up or else. Didio has wanted a reboot for a long time and decided that this was the perfect opportunity. The reboot cut a lot of plans short, pretty much all of Brightest Day for instance got rendered non canon even though it had been setting up future plot lines. The reboot was a godsend for the industry though, basically helped reverse declining sales, and the New 52 was initially a huge sales success. But shit editorial and the chaos of the first couple years ended up sinking the boat again.

Lest we forget, this started with a first issue whose last page was Harvey Dent who had now become... ONE FACE.

Some faggots got really butthurt that Rebirth was done so well for whatever reason (before it was ruined a few months later)

That was in Batman: The Dark Knight #1.

Rebirth was so bad that people were forced to like Lobdell comics.

Rebirth didn't even have three good runs, unless you think guys like Dogfucker, Lobdell, Tomasi, Tynion, Percy, Venditti are genuinely good writers. It's only praised by people who think Johns' GL is the best run ever written.

I think it's mostly fans of specific runs from New52 that either didn't continue into Rebirth or were replaced with an inferior take on the character(s).

So you don’t actually have valid criticism just autistic rage. I get that trying to be an edgy contrarian to fit in is popular around here, but you should lighten up user.

It is not contrarian to say that Rebirth compromised of shitty writers, you dumb fuck. Rebirth didn't even have more than two good runs.

>Frankly the reboot did wonders for Aquaman.
I wish Johns had kept the background from The Atlantis Chronicles though. I like Arthur being Arthur (and not the incest bastard of an old Atlantean wizard), but did not like what Johns did with the Fall of Atlantis, and King Orin and Atlan

And Orin was the better character. Post Flashpoint Aquaman is generic Johns character.

>Batman: The Dark Knight
Oh wow. How did I forget that was one of the titles?

Justice League Dark is such a great concept yet they screwed it up so badly it boggles the mind.

the only good Rebirth comic was New Super-Man

That is a beautiful image.