It wasn't "Home on the Range" bad, but, like... it WAS pretty bad, wasn't it?

It wasn't "Home on the Range" bad, but, like... it WAS pretty bad, wasn't it?

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Reminder that THIS is the movie that Eisner and Katzenberg thought was going to win them an Oscar for Best Picture. They thought they'd cracked the code. Pocahontas is animated Oscar bait.

Ho boy this movie. The left hate it for its idealized and simplified portrayal of the English/native conflict and “magical Native American” tropes, the right hate it for featuring an interracial relationship and portraying whites in a negative light. I don’t know anyone who actually likes it.

I hated it because the animal companions weren't funny, and the musical numbers were cringeworthy. Colors of the wind?

I love this movie for its visuals, music, and one of the only legitimately tragic/bittersweet ending in any Disney movie.
>Colors of the Wind
>bad
>cringeworthy
YIKES

Kids who don't care about all that horseshit.

Is this the most boring opening song to a disney movie?

youtube.com/watch?v=7v7m1XSrj6Q

It does follow all ye olde magical native stereotypes.

Also John Smith was a cunt in real life and a braggart who made up shit to try and make himself look good.
But that's nothing new for Disney either, considering they do stuff like make Captain Phoebus the love interest hero in their adaptation of hunchback of notre dame compared to how he actually was

>only legitimately tragic/bittersweet ending in any Disney movie.
The ending made no sense, if he wasn't going to survive his injury at their outpost there was no way he was going to survive the long voyage home for treatment.

Disney threw money at some of the finest artists in the world, so yeah, the animation was outstanding. But everyone was just so... excessively twee. Even as a kid I felt like I was being preached to, but it was really lifeless preachiness. Like Captain Planet.

You can be pretty blatant about what you're trying to teach with your movie and still have it feel fun and give viewers characters that don't feel like cardboard cutouts (see: WALL-E, Princess Mononoke, Zootopia, etc.)

Pretty much happened again with Moana and Zootopia, too.

>they're not like you and me, which means they must be evil
Gag me with a fucking spoon.

My nigga. Colors of the Wind was awful. I loathed it as a kid. It played everywhere too, nearly as bad as My Heart Will Go On but more short lived.

the story really is dull, and it's taken from real life events that werent good at all, to take that and twist into a dull fairytale style story, all for the sake of oscar-bait, is insulting.
I feel like Brother Bear was their second attempt at telling a story with Natives involved, which is also sad

>Kids
HA!

I don't do drugs, I'm just pointing out facts regarding the piece of animation.

While I never liked the movie as a whole, I always really liked the intro sequence with the natives, it was just really pleasant and comfy to me

>Pretty much happened again with Moana and Zootopia, too.

How so? I've heard about Lion King being the neglected child compared to Pocahontas, but I must've missed any info on something like that happening in recent years.

I've seen the much more accurate and cooler concept art.

Is there a repository for it?

They definitely expected Moana to have a more lasting impact than it did, but Zootopia is by far the more beloved movie by children and adults alike.

Pretty much anyone that knew the real story of Pocahontas had to be squirming uncomfortably during the entire movie.

"Dude... She was 10."

>it's taken from real life events
Barely. The characters may as well just be their own original ones considering how little they have in common with their real life counterparts.

Moana did have the sweeter music though. It'll live on... in Disney music sing along videos.

Everyone in the world is a furry

And John Smith was a twat, when she traveled to England she refused to even look at him after all the tall tales he spread.

John Smith's entire life history just seems to be example after example of him being a showboating twit.

What would be a good alternative native american tale for Disney to tell?
I feel like I knew more of them when I was younger

I remain politely baffled that Disney hasn't produced even an animated short followup to Zootopia. Brooklyn 99's been mining cop humor for 6 years now, Disney can't come up with a five minute bit of silliness when they've got all the comedic potential provided by (1) cops and (2) animal people? We got "Frozen Fever" 2 years afer Frozen, c'mon.

Test

If they'd made that aspect more accurate the movie would be at least 60% better. At a minimum. Like her age.

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Just embrace Raven Tales. Raven was a dick, but an awesome dick you'd be happy to have on your side.

Well, here we are still talking about him all these years later, so I guess he won.

kys

but he's remembered as a lying twat, so is it really a win

Yes. Kids.

I want to love history, not be it, you silly bitch.

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The idea that Pocahontas is popular with kids was not my experience when the film debuted, but perhaps its a recent phenomenon. Though it's hard to imagine, I will take your word for it.

Implying you're worth remembering

Kids cared more about The Lion King

Wooosh.

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Knowing the real history makes it a lot weirder and awkward.
>John Smith was a prick
>Pocahontas was a kid
>the Powhatan chief stole a shitload of guns he was gonna use to wipe out rival tribes and didn’t ransom them back for Pocahontas til months later
>Ratcliffe wasn’t that bad of a guy, then he was flayed alive with mussel shells when Indian tribe betrayed him

Man, Disney could have chosen literally any other story

Based Penny poster.

I mean its just like their version of Notre-Dame.

They made the Captain of the Guard a super good coolguy when in the original he was a douchebag trying to cheat on his fiancee with a gypsy that got stabbed, then when he ran away the gypsy girl got arrested for his 'murder' and he could have got her off by saying one word but instead just watches her execution then goes off to get married.

>"Home on the Range"
I've never seen it, what do you mean by Bad in that context.

It's about history.

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Naw, naw, naw, Brad. You cannot say that you like Pocahontas. The genocide of my people is turned into a cartoon musical? With a singing raccoon? I mean, think about it, Dog. The real story of Pocahontas is about a bunch of white boys who come to my land, bribe the corrupt Indian chief, kill off all the warriors and fuck the Indian princess silly. Would the white man make a story about Auschwitz, where the inmate falls in love with the guard and they go off singing love songs with dancing swastikas (>inb4 someone mentions /his/ and their Confederate pregnant Anne Frank porn)?

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>and fuck the Indian princess silly.
Preach it, Tonto.

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>With a singing raccoon
The raccoon doesn’t sing though. Or talk

It had too many animal companions I felt. Like most movies have the one, maybe two, but this one had the raccoon, the hummingbird, and the dog.

Neither do mountains but I don't see you correcting old Ducklips here.

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I accept that Pocahontas has absolutely nothing to do with real history and oversimplifies a tragedy in a way that is offensive to Native Americans.

But at the end of the day, it's a movie. It's unfortunate that there aren't more Native American film directors/screenwriters, but if a movie like Smoke Signals comes along, I'll watch it and likely enjoy it. And I'd rather the real physical problems Native Americans face be addressed through legislation than all of the focus be placed on a problematic Disney movie.

With love from Virginia and /his/

youtube.com/watch?v=yLt62E635O8

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If we count the Gargoyles as animals, then Hunchback had more. Horse, those three, goat, gypsies

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The movie took its hamfisted moral and blatant attempt at awards pandering too seriously and tripped over itself. Which is the main reason it was never beloved like B&TB or LK. It had problems besides offending someone but that's all that ever gets talked about.

cute!

I'm pretty sure Espera didn't actually bother watching the movie.

The whole point of the scene was that Espera either intentionally misunderstood the point of the movie or was talking out of his ass, all for the sake of being contrarian and when called out on it, shirks in embarrassment.

Still, Generation Kill is absolute /k/ino and should get a Yea Forums adaptation. Preferably with the actual characters voicing themselves for greater immersion.

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>Also John Smith was a cunt in real life and a braggart who made up shit to try and make himself look good.
>I don't think he could have done some of the things he said so he's obviously lying.
Fuck off, they don't let you use the Turks head on your standard unless you are good at killing Turks

Actually modern Lion King is Frozen, and Big Hero Six was Pocahontas.

Zootopia is more like Kingdom of the sun Vs Dinosaur.

>Zootopia is more like ... Dinosaur.
Savage. Unless you mean Zootopia is ENG and Moana is Dinosaur, in which case, well, still savage.

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Yup. Emperor's New Groove went through some heavy changes just like Zootopia

Did Disney really have high hopes for Dinosaur? Even in 2000 when CG was still somewhat new I thought it looked like soulless Land Before Time.

It was "Quick! Let's make something CGI, everyone else does it now!"

Apparently Dinosaur got better box office results but then again I saw barely any advertising for ENG while Dinosaur was plastered fucking everywhere.

I bet the movie would have been better received if young Pocahontas rescued and befriended John Smith, who was a huge braggart but otherwise not as bad as he was, and they dropped the romance and made it a cute friendship that bridged the cultural divide. And then the sequel is less weird too.

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Still sounds shit and pandering to lolifags

It was definitely Home on the Range bad. Pocahontas is the worst hand-drawn feature in Disney's stable.

John Smith did look noticeably wonky at times

Yeah but Katzenberg really, really wanted that Oscar. So we need another Beauty and the Beast romance story instead,

Yeah, true. But heaven forbid even the worst of the renaissance have been used to toss me a bone. And it doesn't have to be terrible. Likely a lot less hammy.

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Shit I should learn to read.
I don't pay attention to much of their direct to video stuff, but I'm assuming some of that is worse.

What anime is this from

Didn't Moana have the same problem in having both the pig and the rooster? And despite being toy-bait the pig ended up having most of its moments cut so it just seemed superflous.

Forget that native pride shit, everyone should be giving remembrance to the real heroes

youtube.com/watch?v=nrfJuYTbQpw

>No one in history has ever been awarded false honors
>No one in history has ever heavily embellished their accomplishments far beyond what they actually did

The right doesnt hate it because they dont give a shit about cartoons stop strawmanning everything

The Adventures of Pocahontas: Indian Princess (1994)

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So the disney sequel has her hook up with the English guy she actually got with in history? Leaving John a big blonde cuck when he appears in that sequel.

>the right hate it for featuring an interracial relationship
>the right
>the side that freed the slaves
>the side that willingly signed the civil rights act
I bet you're one of those idiots that think the parties switched aren't you?

That retarded raccoon has all the acting talent of David Tennant.

>absolute /k/ino
youtube.com/watch?v=gFVfbPFADF4

>Would the white man make a story about Auschwitz, where the inmate falls in love with the guard and they go off singing love songs with dancing swastikas.

Give it a couple of decades more and you'll see someone making a Romeo & Juliet story out of the Holocaust.

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I can’t think of a historical event that didn’t end with droves of dead Indians. Maybe Coyote, if you can find enough non-smutty stories. No Vulva Woman, for instance. Even that invites a comparison to the Roadrunner cartoons.

More or less. More like a loudmouthed old friend though, considering it'd be weird if he had been interested in her when she was 10. In that hypothetical movie anyway.

The intro sequence was pretty good. The song about the virginia company actually set the tone pretty well.

Then it went off the rails with magic talking trees and a fucking raccoon and hummingbird sidekick

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>No Vulva Woman
wat

This movie had alr already crowded cast:

Moana, Maui, Ocean and Mini Maui, the latter were hardly marketable, so they needed to shoehorn pig and rooster.

I could see a Japanese person being so tone deaf to make something like this.

Yeah. Thank goodness for them.

I rather watch Home on the Range than this piece of garbage which makes me wish you guys had been more thourough in exterminating all the native americans.

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It's weird that movies that I didn't particularly care for as a kid I need to defend nowadays because they get way more hate than they deserve

It is a garbage movie.
It is slow, boring, stylistically the more cartoonish characters clash too much with the characters meant to look more realistically, the songs are ear cancer, the story and presentation unimaginative compared to Aladdin and the movie literally killed my grandfather's enjoyment for Disney movies (he was a great fan of Disney movies ever since he was stationed with american soldiers during the restauration period in germany and they would on occasion show Disney movies via film projector) just eight months before he died of cancer.

I don't get this. Isn't it tedious to be contrary for the sake of things you don't even like that much? Why bother?

I wasn't disagreeing with anything you said.

Nothing is off limits to rule 34, not even the Holocaust.

oh.
sorry.. Just trying to explain my reason a bit more.

That sounds like something a savage would say.

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Hiawatha was cute in Looney Tunes.

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>This is what we feared
>The paleface is a demon
>The only thing they feel at all is greed

>Beneath that milky hide
>There's emptiness inside

Pretty accurate so far.

Yes, and it just gets worse for each passing year, I can legit see this movie going the way of Song of the South, because holy fuck is this movie actually racist as fuck.

Or them making a shitty live action remake that somehow ends up being WORSE.

Some of the songs are good.see how I glitter

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>The right doesnt hate it because they dont give a shit about cartoons stop strawmanning everything
All the Steven universe hate in this board suggests otherwise

youtube.com/watch?v=gd6GhVAP0ZE

Laughably, the "proof" that's been used to say that Pocahontas was popular with kids is it sold more "Burger King Kids' Club" meals than Lion King.

Me, I say look to the fanart. It's done EXCEEDINGLY poorly when it comes to inspiring fanart. Kids got a bunch of Disney DVDs/VHS tapes then ran to Deviantart and drew lions, not Natives.

Savages was a pretty catchy villain song.

well duh, lions look cool

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If you'd seen it you'd understand. "Girl Power" comedy with a huge budget, awful writing, and a dearth of good jokes. Think Ghostbusters-remake in terms of squandering resources.

>people complain about Disney's Pocahontas not being historically accurate
>historically accurate Pocahontas movie gets made
>no one watches it and it's forgotten

it's not a musical cartoon though

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Odd. She sure doesn't look 10.

>historically accurate Pocahontas movie gets made
>historically accurate
You aren't even trying.

The actress playing her was 14 when they shot the movie.

I remember all the girls having Pocahontas toys and merch when it was new

>inspiring fanart
Yeah, because furfaggots love TLK and spam DA with their shitty lion OCs.

>fu-furries tho
Sounds like all your alleged Geroniboos need to step it up senpai

Pocahontas was all about promoting furfaggotry because being a human being is disgusting and unnatural

>he thinks 80% of TLK art isn't furfaggot garbage

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>I can’t think of a historical event that didn’t end with droves of dead Indians.

Which is why it was a bad idea to base it on historical events. No other Disney movie made that blunder (Mulan comes closest, but even then it's filed under "legend that may or may not have been inspired by a real person").

If it was Historically accurate, she would have gotten raped by the euros.

Okay? The Lion King turned a lot of kids into Furfags.

Pocahontas was watched by kids, and then forgotten.

One had an impact, the other didn't.

No, because the protag was beautiful. You could half watch it and still enjoy the visuals.

My family liked it. I remember my siblings and I watched all the time when we were kids, and we were white trailer trash

she have great DSL, i'll give you that

>Laughably, the "proof" that's been used to say that Pocahontas was popular with kids is it sold more "Burger King Kids' Club" meals than Lion King.

That was when beef prices plummeted, burgers became cheaper, and Fast Food chains were going crazy trying to compete with one another.

Get back to your freezer Mr Disney, it's not time yet.

I mean, there's the theory that "Pocahontas" was a nickname, basically meaning "likable troublemaker."

Team a clever and smart-mouthed kid up with a gruff kinda-dim braggart looking to make a name for himself. That's just good buddy comedy, right there. See: Wreck-It Ralph.

>I rather watch Home on the Range

Jesus, you sure? It's got Roseanne Barr trying to be G-Rated funny, which does NOT work.

Once Coyote went out looking for trouble. He found a village that was empty, except for one woman. One very attractive woman.

“Where are your friends?” asked Coyote.

“They have gone to find food. Stay a while. We can have fun!”

Coyote talked and talked. She wanted fun, not talking. Coyote was up for that too. But he was still Coyote, so he looked first and what he saw frightened him. There was gnashing and wailing. She had teeth in her vulva!

“Oh, no,” thought Coyote, “this is Vulva Woman! She’ll bite my penis off. I need to do something.” Coyote thought fast and pushed a stick into Vulva Woman. Her teeth chewed it to splinters and spit them out. Coyote pushed in a lump of clay. Her teeth gritted and ground and spit it out. Coyote pushed in a good-sized rock. Her teeth cracked and broke. Her teeth fell out of her vulva, all but one little stump.

“Now I am vulnerable,” said Vulva Woman. “I have no way to protect myself. Stay with me and I will give you someplace warm to stay.”

Coyote stayed a while, long enough. But he knew she could still be dangerous. There was no one coming back with food, and Coyote needed food more than a woman. So he left when he was done with her. He’d found trouble enough for once.

It also has the most acid trippy hilarious out of nowhere scene I can instantly think off when the Yodelling begins.

Pocahontas honestly has one of my favorite Disney soundtracks.

Sure you do, you fucking stoner.

True... but while I look at Pocahontas and see a movie where talented people tried and failed, Home on the Range just feels like a phoned-in thing where the animators showed up and went "welp, we're making a funny-animal Disney movie I guess."

Because the impact you totally want is to have more furfaggots in this planet, right?

Fuck off and yiff in hell, bitch.

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Pocahontas is really similar to Hercules in that I can't remember a single thing that happens past 20 minutes in.

>want

Has nothing to do with "wanting." Just saying, if we're trying to determine which movie was more popular with kids? One spawned a shitload of fanart (and yes, turned kids into furfags). The other... didn't get fanart. People are still drawing their Lion King OCs. Ain't nobody drawing Pocahontas OCs.

You know his name and many others won't know his worse parts. How many people are going to know your name three hundred years after you die?

Aside from "muh accuracy" there really isn't much wrong with it.

Considering the current trajectory of how the movie is appraised, he'll be lucky to be remembered as "lying twat."

And there's nothing impressive about people remembering your name when your name is literally John Smith. Congratulations, you have the most generic English-person dude name possible.

This. At least when you watch other Disney films that deviate from the source material, it's fine because you know it's their adaptation of a classic tale. It doesn't necessarily matter how closely they follow it because you know it's their own spin on well known fiction. But here, it's based on real historical events and it's nowhere near respectful of those events at all. As a movie itself it's /fine/ I guess. But when 5 seconds on Google can tell you the real events and how much more gruesome they were (Ratcliffe was fucking skinned alive), you can't watch it at all without feeling awkward. I have no clue why Song of the South is the big Disney movie people go after for being disrespectful, this movie is honestly way worse. What the FUCK was Eisner thinking?

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Low-hanging fruit. This was after Dances With Wolves. He wanted a non-white Princess, and told his staff to make one, and also make it, y'know, historical and shit.

>Literally just bringing up modern politishit dichotomy bullshit for no fucking reason other than to artificially inflate the "Right" ie racist white supremacists as somehow equal in number to the "Left"

>I have no clue why Song of the South is the big Disney movie people go after for being disrespectful, this movie is honestly way worse.
It'll be interesting to see how Disney treats Pocahontas going forward. They still put her in the Princess line (gotta sell those dolls) but who knows if that will change. As another user said, it really does get more and more offensive with time.

both are great examples of a visually impressive movie not being able to save itself due to shitty writing

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Only literal autists care about historical accuracy in children fiction works. The wrong thing with it that it is just boring as hell.

Nah, it was mediocre-to-okay.

>The single best representation of American Indians that Hollywood has ever done.
t. Russell Means

It exists as a live action musical, Romeo and Jewliet. Not joking. Missed an opportunity by not making it "Rommelo".

>children fiction works
I'd argue that they were making a deliberate attempt to also please parents in the audience (and critics working for The Academy). They wanted to mix some Driving Miss Daisy into their Little Mermaid followup. You're right that it was boring, but when you're deliberately trying to have shit that'll appeal to adults, the "it's just for kids" excuse doesn't fly.

And it's not just that it's "historically inaccurate," it's the shape of the historical inaccuracy. They picked actual real people, and a real story that was very much not a Disney story. Should've just made something up and sprinkled on some cultural flavor, like with Moana.

for a knockoff, she looks cute

>>The single best representation of American Indians that Hollywood has ever done.

That's a damn low bar.

By Will.i.am Shakespeare?

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SAVAGES
SAVAGES

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yeah, it is phoned in.
But it at least did not make my grandfather hate disney. Granted, it would have if he had lived long enough, but still.

BARELY EVEN HUMAN

Not any more than most princess movies.

You can only be historically inaccurate with real things, that's what the "historical" part refers to.

It's never getting vaulted became nobody actually cares about injuns.

>nobody actually cares about injuns
They're going to be diluted into nothingness in the next two generations so I guess it really doesn't matter

Even fucking Marie antoinette Would make a better disney princess that Pocahontas

The problem with legislation though is that time after time it has put indigenous people in positions where they have to rely more on the federal government. And when the government is holding all the cards there's stopping them from going, "Screw you, I want an oil pipeline to go straight through the head waters of the largest river in the country. We're making progress and temporary jobs at the cost of clean drinking water."

huh, the looney tunes hiawatha was a mockery of a short disney did before.

files.catbox.moe/r04kv3.jpg

yeah needs work

watched it recently and its actually the best Disney film period. best music best art direction best character design best plot

do you have better screenshots of the GoodTimesHontas??

Reminder that we also have two animated Titanic movies in existence. Three if you count the sequel to one of them.

>the pocahontas tv series about her as a kid
>also she had a sassy female bear sidekick

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Niiiiice!

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Those I found were pretty few and far between. It is on youtube though, in all its terrible Direct to VHS glory
m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vg_9ogEqnY

THICC BEAR PUSSY

>I will now make squirrel disappear

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As long as we're posting alternate cartoon takes on Pocahontas, here's a link some user shared in a recent thread:
youtube.com/watch?v=3IKMDOKKMYQ#t=4m25s

Apparently that scene is based on an actual native ritual. But the imagery, the moans of Pocahontas, and the sheer length of that scene make it really uncomfortable to watch.

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>lolihontas
>adult voice

FUCK!

people who go on Yea Forums don't matter.

There's only wind color I want to see from Pocahontas, and that's green.

brap

LOL

I mean, this thread itself does a good job of demonstrating that there's an increasing number of people who look at the movie and go "that's kinda fucked up, actually."

Home on the Range wasn’t bad

Maybe not compared to dogshit like The Emoji Movie, but for a Disney supposed-to-be-a-blockbuster? Pretty damn bad.

Yeah.

Savages was almost good, some of the lyrics were cringe tough. I don't see what's wrong with Colors of the Wind.

That's just people on the internet being smartasses and virtue signaling. Nobody itt actually cares about the representation of natives, they just want everyone to know they know. See also: Disney's Hercules and its regular threads populated by people who just took Mythology 101.

Can't say I agree. Hercules had fun with mythology and got a lot wrong, but the whole thrust of Pocahontas was "finally, a politically correct animated depiction of The White Man coming to America!"

Them making a complete mess of things seems pretty significant to me. I can't see them vaulting it, but it's pretty easy to imagine them quietly pushing Pocahontas to the back of crowd shots and trying to push Moana more as their proof they're culturally sensitive.

"The only ones who care are just virtue signaling" is a criticism for movies that didn't consider "virtue signalers" a key demographic to hit.

>Give it a couple of decades more and you'll see someone making a Romeo & Juliet story out of the Holocaust.

We have an entire board dedicated to that. It's called

the sound of music is more or less that and it was made in the 60s

I think you may need to watch The Sound of Music again.

Which is a sentence I never want to say again.

>actually giving a fuck about dirty tree niggers

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>tree niggers
wouldn't mind elves in a fantasy setting inspired by Indians

The sound of music is fantastic what the fuck is wrong with you?

WOuLDn'T ever GAG you with a spoon my ON-LY-TrUe Love!

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The Sound of Music is not Romeo and Juliet, unless you watched the 16 Going On 17 then ignored the rest of the movie. The movie is not about Rolf and Liesl you fuck.

Also, if you hate it, you are a serious fuck.

That's not how logic works. If you aim a movie at someone and get it wrong, they'll definitely let you know about it.

I can see why they left this out and focused on the hippy dippy one with nature bullshit

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Depending on the tribe you can more fucked up stuff too. There are many war tribes.

home in the range is actually good, latinos love it a lot.

That's perfect. More please.

The stakes are different with Hercules. A kid watches it and worst case scenario they get a Roman god mistaken for a Greek god. But a kid watches Pocahontas they'll have a warped view of indigenous people and history for years until they learn the truth which sometimes never happens.

sauce?

SAVAGES SAVAGES BARELY EVEN HUMAN

CENSORED CENSORED

youtube.com/watch?v=pImdvmIw0Ec

But....the soundtrack tho

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he did nothing wrong, it's common sense to try to rescue your guys if they fall into the hands of your enemies, you really can't expect they are probably singing songs a la broadway while being in captivity.

here, files.catbox.moe/2yw5dm.jpg

he didn't actually care about smith, he was just using it as an excuse to attack

Based drawfriend

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he was their leader and it's his duty to save his people, it would have been a shit move to just abandon the guy and let him get scalped by a bunch of savages even if they didn't like each other very much.
imagine joining the army, going to Afghanistan and getting leg'd by a land mine, your captain comes and tells you "welp, you are on your own now, bye"

My family is like 90% certain that's how my uncle died. Haven't gotten anything concrete, just a lot of implying...

But, to be clear, my uncle was just the WORST PERSON, so, y'know... fuck it. Sometimes "Cause of Death" is "pissing off every living person that could save you."

>he was their leader and it's his duty to save his people
Which wasn't the reason he was leading the attack.

yeah, he had his own motives to attack and smith being captured just helped to make things easier for everybody to join his cause, but still is something he had to do even if he didn't had his own motives, you would lose you people's trust if you just leave them get killed one by one and do nothing, it's common sense.

>musical numbers are cringeworthy
>when we have "Savages" and "Mine, Mine, Mine"
haha okay buddy

Mine Mine Mine is actually fantastic. Best song in the whole soundtrack, David Ogden Stiers knocked that one out of the park. Lyrics are fantastic too.

>posting penny gadget
Found the pedo.

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The whole movie was le political correct oscar bait

pathetic
go woke get broke

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Disney did Ratcliffe dirty.

>A caring man who tried to help his sick children.
>Tried to trade and make peace with the Indians.
>Captured, had his skin torn off GoT-style, and brutally murdered by said Indians.
>Hundreds of years later, turned into a shitty one-dimensional villian who only cares about gold.

Literally did nothing wrong.

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Disney does that to a lot of characters based on real people or actually myths. Like how Zeus doesn't rape a single thing in Hercules and is in a happy relationship with Hera.

Here you go.
Anyone have that kind of lewd storyboard drawing of bikini Pocahontas?

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Eh, I figure he did deserve a LITTLE scorn for the way he looked at a bunch of people that were slowly starving to death and went "you know what would cheer everyone up? Building a capitol in those woods over there!"

Didn't deserve what Disney did to him, but "did nothing wrong" is pushing it.

They made him right in Fantasia

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Well, "nothing wrong" in the loosest terms in that he was a retarded governor and stole the food for his sick kids from the colony's supplies.

Back then it was too deep for me and the ending was unsatisfying because it was bittersweet/unhappy. What's strange is I then fucking loved Hunchback even if it had a forced happy ending and I knew everyone was supposed to die going in. Maybe because the seriousness went beyond surface level.

>pocahontas is not a ten years old almost naked girl
this is were the whole movie lost any credibility

>Nobody itt actually cares about the representation of natives, they just want everyone to know they know.
It must be nice to be so dumbly self-assured that your mindset is the only correct one.

And how!

Just do one with Aztecs, Spanish guy gets Nahuatl slave gf have both sides be bad guys instead of AZTECS GOOD SPANISH BAD.

>His accounts don't even line up chronologically with historical records.
lol

This.

someone should definitely post storyboard bikini pocahontas

Here's the thing.

Pocahontas is not a very good movie. But it was Disney testing the waters. They were afraid to deviate too far from Princess movies after the success of Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast, so they were tip-toeing their way to other things, like maybe some historical period shit. They were pulling out all the stops to be an Oscar-winner, trying to be an Important Movie that had Social Commentary. And they missed.

Buuuuut I have more respect for that (and for Home on the Range, which was at least an attempt to do something different) than I have for fucking RALPH BREAKS THE INTERNET and CARS 3.

There's "desperate attempts to look like a serious studio" and then there's "shameless cashgrabs."

They've gone from the former to the latter. Even the worst moment of Pocahontas, Home on the Range, or Black Cauldron was better than Vanelope going "ooo, look at all the properties that Disney owns!"

agreed, this was Disney trying to do something different, even if it wasn't good or failed, at least they didn't failed to try, happen again with Hunchback because of the gargoyles clashing, but i believe it did better, but then came up Hercules trying to be like Aladdin....

Not everyone is so extremely on one side of the political spectrum that they see everything in such a political light,

>white man

user, I...

Even Anastasia Romanoff would make a better disney princess than Pocahontas

To be fair, Bluth cheated and pretended that impostor was the real deal, when actually the real Anastasia was murdered as a child. But yeah, at least there was a popular theory that made that cheat possible.

He's just following the Disney Tradition. Every animated movie must be completely inaccurate to the source material.

Sure, sure. Just saying that Anastasia is only better material to mine than Pocahontas because Anastasia's death was followed by a women going "actually, I'm totally Anastasia, grown up!"

Would've been damn hard to make an Anastasia movie if not for that.

And I'll be written by 2 old Jewish men, just like Anne Frank's diary

If they had retained the scene where she sneaks into the tent John Smith is tied up in and they sing "If I never knew you" -- I think the film would have been better. Raises the stakes later on when she is racing to stop the execution. One of the DVDs has this sequence put back in-- and actually makes the film better-- unlike Tim and Elton's abortion " morning report" in Lion King special editions.

. Song related
Pocahontas - "If I Never Knew You" - YouTube
youtube.com/watch?v=KiuBw_kj1-U

This one?

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Who remembers the Colors of the Wind trailer for this movie that would play on the Lion King VHS?

At least Captain Planet had puns and one liners to make the preaching seem goofy, this took itself way too seriously

Let’s not forget “Little Mermaid is a girls movie, so it won’t do as well as Oliver & company. “

Pocahontas was a child when John Smith arrived in America. This movie has almost nothing to do with the real events outside of the names

I think they deserve credit for Notre Dame. They took a very dark story and made it only slightly dark while maintaining a good portion of the beats. Does Quasi accidentally get Esmeralda killed and then die holding her corpse? No, but he still ends up a loveless loser who was cucked out of his woman, Frolo still attempts to drowned a baby and says “this is an unholy demon, I’m sending it back to hell where it belongs” and there are still several on screen deaths.
Compare that to the massive censorship of the black couldron and you have a rare dark Disney film with outstanding music, breath taking visuals, and a good story overall. Plus, the Disney ending was based on an opera adaptation that Victor Hugo wrote himself, so it’s not entirely uncanon.

Native Americans didn’t experience a tragedy. They were violent, war monger omg dickheads who tried to play coy in an attempt to get the upper hand on the new people, only to be absolutely annihilated by the foreigners with the fire sticks. Maybe they should have invented the wheel before attempting to fight the people smart enough to voyage across the Atlantic.
The Aztecs were the ones who had the tragedy, they weren’t violent towards whites, they saw them as gods

Both had larger parts in older scripts. Hei Hei in particular was a big aspect of the version when Moana had brothers since he only joined her in the journey because friends front of her older brother’s boat was his favorite spot, and he left her the boat when their father said she wasn’t allowed to go on the journey with them because she was a girl.
Moana is an odd movie because the script was heavily tampered with to the point that they removed set ups, but left the pay offs. The entire Cocamora scene for instance had a set up earlier where she played baseball with coconuts when she was angry, this was cut from the film, but when she sees them, she looks at the oar and says “coconuts” in a knowing manner and starts hitting them like baseballs. By all means, that like makes absolutely no sense I’m the current film, and that’s just one of many instances like that. Usually the writers are smart enough to edit that shit out, but they didn’t with Moana for some reason.

Moana is based on the real phenomena where Polynesians stopped sailing for over a thousand years for unexplained reasons

yes

>the pilgrims were innocent, they dindu nuttin

Im mostly just confused how they thought this was a good idea. Did they just not know that this was an actual historical event and not some random fairy tale? I mean you can futz with the Hunchback because at the end of the day that's pure fiction but this is making a family adventure movie that completely sugar coats a rather controversial moment in early American history.

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Moana wasn't even supposed to exist, it was going ot be the Maui movie. Bit execs knew better. Also Hei Hei was supposed to be Maximus 2.0, just look at his promotional materials.

They're good blokes.

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The only good thing about it is the size of Pocahontas' tits.

>Dinosaur

The movie literally nobody can remember despite seeing it.

Anastasia’s alleged survival was one of the biggest mysteries of the century, it was almost like a modern Man in the Iron Mask

I hated it because it had too many songs. And everyone was kinda bland to look at.

Ouch