Remember that episode of the Simpsons when they got Homer's 'Vega's Wife' blind drunk and raped by grandpa?

So she was the one who raped Grandpa?

So she raped him then.

Male rape is ok.

Amber was too drunk to consent to anything. Homer deliberately removed her ability to consent to anything by drugging her with an extreme level of alcohol. It is a textbook example of rape.

Also "I can't" isn't the same as "I don't' want to"

>Also "I can't" isn't the same as "I don't' want to"
You're right, so she was the one who raped him.

'I don't want to', 'no', 'I don't want sex' = no consent for sex, does not want sex
'I can't' = I want to, but something is stopping me

Grandpa was literally and unironically rapist.

She could have not drank as much alcohol. Her getting plastered to fuck and back is her own fault. Also "I can't" could refer to a moral restriction turning into "I don't want to".

She raped him no matter how you try and spin it.

Yikes

It literally doesn't matter that she willingly got drunk (albeit, as we're shown explicitly coerced by a sober Homer to get further and further drunk after initially becoming inebriated, compromising her ability to say no to more alcohol being pushed on her, legally a kind of roofie), you are not legally allowed to have sex with someone blind drunk.

Let me say that again, because it sounds like you might need to hear this to avoid ending up in prison someday. You are not legally allowed to have sex with someone who is blind drunk. Ever. They cannot consent, even if they say they want it. It is classified as rape.

Who knows what Abe means by "I can't" - maybe he felt too old, or suffered impotence, or moral guilt about raping someone, in the end it makes no value judgement on his consent for the act, just that he felt he wasn't physically able. Which he was, and did when he raped her.

If alcohol removes the ability to consent. how come drunk drivers are held accountable for their actions?

>two people had sex
>one of them is literally incapable of instigating sex
And you're saying that person is the one who committed rape?

Where is it implied Abe is literally incapable?

If you mean "instigating" as in flirting/coming on to someone, Abe is perfectly capable of that and so is anyone else. If a blind drunk person comes onto you and wants to have sex, by law you are required to turn them down.

If by "instigating" you refer to the physical act of coitus. It is never stated or implied in the episode that Abe literally cannot have sex. Though you are suggesting a tiny, extremely drunk woman overpowered a 6 foot army veteran.

The difference your dumb ass is forgetting here at the root of all of this is that she FORCED him after getting intoxicated on her own free will.

Why do you think women are not responsible for their own actions?

they are not as smart.

Though you are suggesting a tiny, extremely drunk woman overpowered a 6 foot army veteran.

Abe is a million years old and feeble. Not Burns level of weak but still, he's not over powering many people, including younger smaller women.

But good bait.

The issue with this is that drunk drivers are committing a selfish a selfish act that could harm others, which is the same with rape.

Some women are notoriously selfish with the pussy, and it should be as illegal as drunk driving.

This was a joke thread but it seems I've unearthed a real life creepy MRA incel.

A) it literally doesn't matter shit if a woman (or man) gets drunk on their own free will, it doesn't make it okay to have sex with them when they aren't able to consent. That is the law.

B) the episode clearly demonstrated she did not get intoxicated on her own free will, Homer deliberately made sure she was blind drunk by pushing drinks on her. This is also legally considered a form of roofie.

C) litreally nothing about Abe Simpsons statement implies she forced anything on him. Learn English motherfucker. "I can't" does not mean what you think it does.

I'd say have sex, but I'm pretty sure you'd just end up raping someone.

It's okay, user, I'm late, but rest assured I understood that reference.

The episode shows a video of the drunk woman and she is barely able to stand.

Only a willful idiot would suggest she could overpower a 6 foot army veteran in her state.

By your logic a guy can get absolutely smashed, rape a woman, and she's actually the one raping him because he's drunk.

Here you are putting pussy on a pedestal, taking away her own willful actions and making her out as some innocent through all of this and I'm an incel?

Good good, reevaluate yourself asap.

A) Nigger, again, she was the one willing and pushing for sex. Have you never picked up or got hit on from any woman from a bar or do you constantly spout "No mam, I cant have sex with you, it's the law"?
B) Homer wasnt cramming drinks down her throat. At any point she couldve said, nah I'm good.
C) She wouldnt take it for an answer already implying her own insistence.

Get /fit/, grow a chin, go outside and actually experience the world beyond whatever Yea Forumsumblr bubble you've trapped yourself in.

No, that's an edgy child's logical interpretation.

If a guy gets drunk and goes out and violently rapes someone they're still a criminal.
If a guy gets stone cold drunk and then some lady takes advantage of that and rapes them, then she is a criminal.

Again, the only way this scenario could be relevant to the episode is if you're suggesting the tiny woman who could barely stand physically overpowered the unwilling 6 foot male, which was in no way implied.

>Guy gets drunk
>Hits on woman
>Woman accepts advances
>Has sex with guy
>Woman is now a rapist

Is this what you are telling me user, because it sounds like this is what you are telling me.

Have you been around senior citizens, they're really easy to push around. Abe was also willing, his flesh wasn't, but that didn't stop her.

He's a frail old man, a man who is so frail to he is physically incapable instigating sex, and said so himself.

>A) Nigger, again, she was the one willing and pushing for sex.
It doesn't matter if she wants sex, if she's too drunk to consent she's too drunk to consent. It's rape if you engage.
>Have you never picked up or got hit on from any woman from a bar or do you constantly spout "No mam, I cant have sex with you, it's the law"?
While I just salivate at the idea of some skanky, barely able to look at me straight, probably about to pee and/or vomit all over herself lady proposing me with sex. Yes, in that theoretical the law clearly says you must refuse.

>B) Homer wasnt cramming drinks down her throat. At any point she couldve said, nah I'm good.
We literally see him do it. It was integral to his plan to make Amber drunk as a skunk. I hate to break it too you, but your plan for getting laid by finding some drunk chick at a bar and making her completely wasted because she's too drunk to know to refuse is not actually legal either.

>C) She wouldnt take it for an answer already implying her own insistence.
Yes, it's established she, in her duff-addled unable to consent mind, wanted sex. Being someone being "insistent" also doesn't give you legal cover to rape someone. Incel.

It depends on the level of drunk. You have to be blind drunk, not just tipsy.

Yes. Men can be raped. Men can be roofied. And men do contact police about that exact situation.

Not that user, but yeah that's right. He can't consent.

>he is physically incapable instigating sex, and said so himself.

He literally never said that.

>you wouldn't take I can't for an answer... wanna give Honest Abe another turn in the oval office
makes it clear the problem was a physical one, since he liked the experience and wanted to do it again

There is no context for what "I can't" means, could be age related, could be impotence, could be reluctance to have sex with a drunk girl.

Critically, "I can't" is not a value judgment on his willingness (consent) to have sex. He easily could have been very willing, but simply thought he wasn't able.

So either he wanted to but physically couldn't, or he didn't want to. Either way, she's the one who raped him.

Keep in mind that Abe is also extremely senile and is an easily-manipulated senior. He would have even less control over himself. Regardless of the drunk stuff, he'd be even more of a victim than she was.

And keep in mind, Amber also married Homer when he was black-out drunk, then tried to force him to uphold the marriage against his will. She didn't even care about destroying his family.

No. Learn English.

Either he wanted to, thought he couldn't, but then found out he could. Or he had moral objections to raping someone, but he overcame those moral objections.

Or a tiny, blind drunk, unable to stand without assistance woman overpowered the 6 foot army veteran.

This tiny unable to stand woman still had enough energy and power to force abe through being able to have sex.

Goddamn this honestly is some next level white knighting. I'm sure I can count the number of times you've been invited to anything on one hand and that's being generous.

You heard it guys.. When a girl says "I can't" HIT THAT PUSSY

>Regardless of the drunk stuff, he'd be even more of a victim than she was.
Abe's senility comes and goes depending on what the writers want. However no court would ever declare that he was more of a victim in this scenario

>Amber also married Homer when he was black-out drunk
Not a crime, she was also black out drunk when they got married in Las Vegas.
>then tried to force him to uphold the marriage against his will. She didn't even care about destroying his family.
Douchie. But not an excuse to orchestrate the rape of someone.

>Ugh Chad, I want to have sex with you, but I CAN'T I'm dating
>C'mon baby, that guy is a loser
>Hehe, okay

There, just one of countless different possible examples of "I can't" coming up in consensual sex.

She pulled this exact thing on Homer in the first episode she appeared in so who cares?

We don't know that she was "blind drunk." She was black out, maybe, but was apparently coherent enough to initiate sex with an impotent man. That implies she was able to make decisions.

>force

There is that word again.

You are a next level incel. You just can't bare the idea that in some situations a woman isn't at fault for being raped.

>you wouldn't take I can't for an answer
He didn't say, "I don't think I can." He said, "I can't." In this case, he was raped.
Or he meant "I can't" as in "I morally object to this." In this case, he was also raped.
Or a frail man in his 80s with a number of medical problems somehow overpowered a young, mostly healthy woman.

This episode was weird because it was two completely different episodes rolled into one.

I don't understand why they did that. The whole family counselor that they thought was an angel trying to teach them how to work as a unit just ended at 12 minutes in. Then they jumped to Vegas wife is back.

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>We don't know that she was "blind drunk." She was black out,
That is the same thing.
>maybe
Confirmed since we literally see she has no memory of it in the episode.

>, but was apparently coherent enough to initiate sex with an impotent (speculation) man. That implies she was able to make decisions.

Holy shit not at all. If that retarded logic was sound then date rape wouldn't be a thing at all.

He couldn't do something for whatever reason and she kept trying until he could.

That is called force.

Except you are saying that the same exact conversation with both parties having felt the same exact way is immediately turns into rape when beer is involved.

>He didn't say, "I don't think I can." He said, "I can't."
We don't know the context. Those statements can mean the same thing. "I can't" can mean a ton of different things. "I can't! My dick is limp! Oh, you got it going, well lets have sex then!"
>In this case, he was raped
Wrong.

>Or he meant "I can't" as in "I morally object to this." In this case, he was also raped.
Except if he meant this context, then it means had the physical ability to not have sex with the woman, walk away. He did have sex, which means he changed his mind, and raped her.

>overpowered a young, mostly healthy woman.
We see video footage of her. She can barely stand, she's relying on others to stay upright. Abe can stand. Only a incel lunatic would pretend she was in a position to overpower a 6 foot army veteran.

Uh yeah. That is basically shit you should have learned in junior high school.

If one of the parties is blackout drunk, they can claim the other raped them afterwards.

Great so both are drunk. Now they raped each other.

Starting to think you constantly calling everyone an incel is some projection there.

Wow, what a genius! What a brilliant mind! Did you know you are the first person on earth to come up with the scenario of two drunk people having sex and it complicating the legal proceedings! We need to nominate you to Harvard, clearly the legal expects need someone like you to consider all the hypotheticals they never thought about!

>That is called force.
No it literally isn't. Learn English.

Yeah, I can smell your tumblr page from here.

Grandpa was in on the whole thing and easily could have been lying.

>then it means had the physical ability to not have sex with the woman, walk away
Yeah, so she forced herself upon him and raped him.

>Force (verb) achieve or bring about (something) by coercion or effort

>Abe's senility comes and goes depending on what the writers want. However no court would ever declare that he was more of a victim in this scenario
Regardless, she still made the moves on him when he declined repeatedly. I imagine the courts would be sympathetic towards the senile old man who tried to say no, vs the woman with a history of taking advantage of people in a state where they're not fully aware.

It's muddled, and Abe clearly benefited from it. But Amber's brought everything onto herself, and she was the one who hurt herself the most.

>she was also black out drunk when they got married in Las Vegas.
We saw the video, and at best, she was only a little tipsy. She and Ginger were clearly much more sober and stable than the boys, who were practically falling over. Later on, they said that Homer and Ned are the nicest husbands they had, implying they've done this before and have experience. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't some scheme they've repeatedly tried to pull off.

>But not an excuse to orchestrate the rape of someone.
Homer didn't orchestrate the rape. He and Marge were likely only involved up to the wedding. The rest was up to Abe.

>Chop, chop, dig, dig

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Because they are acting as the aggressor and not the victim. Accidental murder is still a crime, for instance.

In fact, being drunk makes you unable to enter into any contract. It's usually difficult to prove, but since there was a video of Homer and Ned being drunk off their asses at the wedding, that should have been enough to annul the marriage right there. But it's a cartoon so it just ignored that.

You keep posting your conclusion without evidence or logical explanation juxtaposed against seemingly unrelated quotes.

You seem illiterate and/or schizophrenic.

So you're saying the fact that Abe Simpsons had the ability to walk away and not have sex somehow means he was raped? Care to elaborate?

Force isn't the only word for change someones mind in the dictionary, stupid.

Unless you're going to enter fanfic speculation. There is no context for what Abe "can't" do. Be it physical or mental. And no implication of willingness to have sex.

>without evidence or logical explanation
It's in the fucking episode.
>you wouldn't take I can't for an answer
Abe didn't wasn't able to (and possibly didn't want to) have sex but Amber did. They did end up having sex, so the only logical conclusion you can make to "who raped who" is Amber raped Abe.

He was incapable of having sex, she forced him to be able to have sex.
"Force", which your semen gobbling ass keeps telling me didnt happen.

>she still made the moves on him when he declined repeatedly.
Speculation. He said "I can't". Not "I don't want to".

>I imagine the courts would be sympathetic towards the senile old man who tried to say no,
Abe Simpsons wrote a book on grifting and sold illegal bathtub viagra for years.

>incapable of having sex
There is that fanfiction again. Nowhere in the plot or transcript is that implied.

>she forced him to be able to have sex.
You can't 'force' someone to be ABLE to have sex, either.

You literally cannot take "I can't" for an answer.

I could force most any woman to be able to have sex. That would be rape though

Again, you vapid neon hair colored retard, for whatever reason it may be, Abe COULDN'T have sex and she kept going until he could. This is, by it's own definition "force".

>You can't 'force' someone to be ABLE to have sex, either
Objectively wrong.

>It's in the fucking episode.
It's in your headcanon.

>Abe wasn't able to
Clearly Abe was able to
>(and possibly didn't want to)
Context provides that he did want to, since he "paid for the hour" and offered to have sex again in the morning.
>but Amber did.
Amber was blackout drunk and unable to provide consent.

Unless your position is the tiny, blackout drunk, barely able to stand woman physically overpowered the sober 6 foot army veteran - a position only a crazy incel could ever hold - you cannot posit that Amber was a rapist in any way.

guys guys guys... do not buy into the "women" myth. There are no "women" it is just that some humans are born without penises. Their defects are not their choice or fault, so they should get different rules, word meanings, and free shit left and right. They got no dick bros.

>It's in your headcanon.
WRONG
>offered to have sex again in the morning.
He did that to be nice since she clearly was the one who wanted to/was able to have sex.
youtube.com/watch?v=TKC5IPpszas

>That is the same thing.
Perhaps I should elaborate for the non-drinkers here. You can be "black out" drunk, in the sense that you have trouble remember events the next day, and still be able to function. Since heavy drinkers already have memory problems, they might experience this after a regular night of drinking. Then there is alcohol poisoning, where a person is unable to walk or stand under their own power, loses consciousness, becomes unresponsive to questions, and/or is prone to vomiting, pissing, or shitting on themselves. I can attest from personal experience that you can, unfortunately, sometimes remember portions of these events so it's not quite synonymous with being black out. If you have sex with a woman with acute alcohol poisoning (I don't understand the kind of scumbag who would want to), it is definitely rape, but the episode makes it clear that the woman in question is not that. She is able to stand and speak and wasn't losing consciousness.
>Confirmed since we literally see she has no memory of it in the episode.
Not necessarily. The "Oh no, we didn't!" makes more sense as an expression of regretful recollection than genuine confusion over something she doesn't remember.
>Holy shit not at all. If that retarded logic was sound then date rape wouldn't be a thing at all.
First of all, impotence is the whole point of that joke. Secondly, date rape occurs when a woman is unconscious or unable to initiate sex, as date rape drugs are tranquilizers, or otherwise does not give consent (date rape is really just rape in a specific context). And since we see in the episode that she was coherent enough to consent to marriage, we can assume she was also coherent enough to consent to sex.

>Again, you vapid neon hair colored retard, for whatever reason it may be, Abe COULDN'T have sex and she kept going until he could. This is, by it's own definition "force".

You're kindda flippant about "for whatever reason it may be" considering that is the key part of your statement there. The crux to "I can't" being force.

Abe said "I can't" because he's impotent and couldn't get an erection until Amber sweet talked him.
Abe said "I can't" because his bad back made him think he couldn't lie down to have sex, until Amber convinced him to try.
Abe said "I can't" because he was worried Amber was a resident of Missouri until she provided a drivers liscence.

No force. Unless you fanfiction in force. Learn English.

You can't accidentally murder someone. Murder implies premediation.

Is this just ironic shitposting?

>I could force most any woman to be able to have sex.

You mean you could give them sexual organs when they had none before?

"I can't" means "no"... whatever the reason. You are either a faggot or a woman to not understand this, as almost all males do. The few that don't ARE FUCKING RAPISTS.

You left out the (relevant) punchline
>[Grandpa] Oh thank god

Or just jab it in their mouth. OR make a new hole. Point is I could.

>"I can't" means "no"... whatever the reason.

Learn English, dumbass.

you learn about consent you woman or faggot who does not have to worry about it as a male does. Arrogant cunt.

>John and Mary want to have sex
>John called Mary to have sex at his dorm
>"Ahh sorry John, I can't go out, it's raining"
>"Okay I'll come to you"
That night, John raped Mary, as she clearly stated I can't, which means no, and context is irrelevant.

English, can you speak it?!

No hablas espanol

if he was about to put his cock in her and she said "i can't" John had better back off. You are an idiot or a rapist if you think otherwise.

Force involves coercion you dumb autist faggot.

No one would accuse you of understanding any language. You are very dumb and either gay or a woman.

True! Sadly this is not relevant to Abe and Amber as there is no context to what Abe said other than "Well, we almost didn't, but you wouldn't take I can't for an answer... wanna give Honest Abe another turn in the oval office"

Speculating that the blinddrunk Amber was mere moments away from overpowering the 6 foot army veteran Abe is just that, pure speculation. (and not supported by the corroborating context)

The only facts of the situation we know is Amber was unable to consent, the ludicrous suggestion that "if you ain't unconscious, you is legal!!" non-withstanding.

>Literally everyone
This isnt rape
>This sole fag trying to push this shit.
REEEEEEE ITS RAPE SHE'S A TINY POOR LITTLE WOMAN WHOS NOT IN CHARGE OF HER OWN ACTIONS. LEARN ENGLISH INCELS

Good God, the ONE simpsons thread that needed a Sneed

No hablas espanol! English!

I think we can all agree that rape is not that big of a deal and women complain A LOT in general.

>Literally any lawyer in the country
This is rape
>Literally some mega-incel MRAs
Bahhh it can't be rape if she willingly got drunk!! I didn't move the goalposts!!!

interesting thread

Man its almost funny how many bad Simpson episodes had to do with rape. The panda, Marge weightlifting, and now this.

Of course she loses that case after being able to consent to marrage. Maybe trying to apply real world law in the simpsons wasnt your best game.

Eva is that you?

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it is only worth noting until you look at all the bad ones that had almost nothing to do with rape at all. Statistically insignificant really.

Yes but how many good Simpsons episodes involved rape?

in some small way, I am sure every one of them. Rape is a cornerstone of animated comedy.

S
N
E
E
D.

>Of course she loses that case after being able to consent to marriage

If we're applying real world standards she clearly was not capable of consent to marriage either, and neither was homer when he married her.

Wow, that is some next level crazy

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Oh yes, the main part!

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Got a question for you.
Clearly you think a women getting drunk having sex and then regretting it is rape.
So if the same were to happen to a man would you consider it rape, or is the erection considered consent?

The law considers it rape, my feeling on it are irrelevant.
Yes, if it happens to a man they can report it. The critical stage is the reporting part. Most men just don't care about reporting 'rape' because of the stigma or because they just view it as a bad night.

Usually if two people really regret a one night stand, and were both drunk, the first person to contract the police is treated like the victim and the other the perpetrator. Which is shockingly arbitrary.

I have been pressured into sex with women. If it is not that gross, I will throw em a bang (especially if I am drunk and in a god mood). If they are too gross I tell them I am not attracted to them and to fuck off. I do not think I deserve any sympathy, an excuse for my behavior, any benefits or considerations whatsoever, and no one should have to go to jail over any of this.

This is not because I am a male... It is because I am not a bitch. If a woman is beaten up and forced to have sex, that is a crime. The violence and willful taking against the other persons wishes is the crime. That's it. It is not a difficult thing to understand.

> Brawl in the Family
That name sounds familiar