Why were the later seasons so devoid of fun?

And Tom and Star either seeming like they're actually liking each other or barely acknowledging that they're a couple. Or remembering that Mewni has other royal families and their input on the Eclipsa situation is kinda importan

>even after fully establishing Eclipsa was good all along, there were still episodes teasing that she might actually be evil and you can't trust her
>jk she and Globgor were good just like we already said
this made me salty as fuck
I get that Star vs. is one big metaphor for racism and that one of the big themes was that victory is written by the victors, but why spend all that time on Eclipsa violating Star's privacy and using death spells that harm civilians as collateral damage without giving Eclipsa real consequences for her actions or at least an actual character development arc? Eclipsa was such a badass character when she was introduced and during S3 the tension of whether or not to trust her was actually good, but by S4 her character went absolutely nowhere and she became probably my least favorite character.

Why do so many mainstream cartoons these days get obsessed over lore.

Even Spongebob, a series known for giving zero fucks about continuity, is now trying that with the whole Kamp Koral thing.

I thought the writing crew was divided on how the story would play out and ships? Isn't that the reason stuff like

>Tom and Star either seeming like they're actually liking each other or barely acknowledging that they're a couple.
happened so much?

Because it's gone from something that was only ever done right by a few cartoons to the new, hip, and trendy thing in the market.

Why were the earlier seasons so devoid of fun?

>Entire chapter is full of some evil, or at the very least unconscionable shit like death spells and interdimensional spying methods
>why did she make all of those in the first place?
>lol who cares Eclipsa is really just a well meaning ditz
Absolutely fucking criminal waste of character setup. It wasn't even [expectations subverted] because it didn't turn out that she made all of those spells by accident or they weren't her spells in the first place and were misattributed to her

She's implied to have untrustworthy bad shit under the surface but instead she immediately plainly indicates she wants monster dick and everything she does afterwards is plainly for that goal

Also Solaria's ghost just being accepting and shit of Eclipsa's fuckery for no goddamn reason but spurning Mina. THAT burned my ass

After spending a season setting her up, then spending another season setting Globgor up as the big huge threat coming up.

Do fucking nothing with both of them

Because you hate fun and hugs.

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Moringmark is boring as fuck.

Your attitude is boring as fuck.

Nah, my attitude pretty cool and lit.

What's weird to me about the romance in the last season or two being so bad is that I actually thought they were pretty clever with it in the beginning. Like having Marco acknowledging that he's preemptively put Jackie on a pedestal before making an active effort to get to know her. Or Tom slowly acknowledging what a shit he was and understanding that he'd have to grow as a person before being ready for any kind of relationship, friendship or otherwise.

But after a while every side-character and relationship dynamic that they set up gets steamrolled over in favor of fueling the drama between Star and Marco, to the point where it seems weirdly mean-spirited. Like leaving Jackie behind. Heckapoo getting lied too by Marco, and never having the conflict brought up again. Kelly getting broken up with off-screen. Tom getting repeatedly screwed over. etc. I just felt bad for every character that came into contact with the love triangle.

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It's fascinating how off-put I was when I actually started to like Tom in early S3 and then how badly it went back to later

It probably doesn't help that half of the major romantic development on Star and Marco's part basically has to be coerced to move forward. Their first kiss is while they're basically held hostage in a photo booth, and Marco's confession is when he's high off magic.

and up to that point they had a literal curse pushing them towards each other

They suffered from a cuckqueaning deficiency.

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It was the lack of Starco for the sake of relationship drama.

>lack of Starco
It was Starco that ruined it in the first place.

that was a blessed time

Because Nick is trying to be like Krabs himself

The Starco relationship is what made the show fun.

Women always ruin fun if you give them the choice.

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It wasn't. Seeing Star change and grow was until seasons 3 and 4 ruined her.

Would it have been too obvious to have made Toffee Eclipsa's lost love? Tying the two major conflicts of the story together and keeping the moral ambiguity of the two opposing sides?

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No. That or her child would both work. I can't even call it too obvious considering the crew itself doesn't seem to have thought of that at all, and they went for a fairly black-and-white portrayal of Eclipsa and Globgor anyway.

I think Toffee as her lover is pretty obvious how that'd go; with the same feelings she has about Globgor but with no easy fix, and maybe makes Toffee's motives slightly nobler through him not only wanting to ruin the Butterflys but
free Eclipsa from the crystal through the destruction of magic.

Not with Globgor as his father if they made Toffee her son though (unless the tapestry's wrong), and definitely NOT following the Meteora plotline we got. Just Eclipsa being uncrystallized and then learning Star killed her son. I also imagine Toffee would've been a child or teenager when she was taken and not a baby like Meteora, with the treatment Eclipsa received directly shaping his hatred of the Butterflys.

Simple because they killed your ship at the end of Season 2, I swear to fuck you Jackiefags are cancer.

Also: I think they should've just done what the fanbase believed for years anyway, with Eclipsa having had a Mewman child with Shastacan before leaving her kingdom and family for a monster and to do her own thing. Family tree taking a forked path, rather than one half being "real" and the other "fake."

I honestly found the focus on royal blood really gross and offputting for a kids' show against racism. I get what they were trying to do but I don't think it was done well.

Toffee is baffling because there's so much to him that is not looked at in the least
And I don't mean that bullshit in the episode with Glossaryk and Meteora, that was trash

Why was he named Toffee in the first place? How did he know so much about magic? The candy name was SCREAMING that he'd be connected to Eclipsa early on, and being the blasphemous child of a Mewni queen would give him some background on knowing about the wand lore but it ends up all just being a fucking non sequitur

the blood shit doesn't even make sense considering Eclipsa gave up the throne at her own free will
and the "fake" butterflys have been in control for 300 years, they can't be that bad, fuck Star

>I honestly found the focus on royal blood really gross and offputting for a kids' show against racism
I kind of like that they blatantly make a point of showing how the start of the royal line was chosen completely at random.

I would have liked to have seen more of the Magical High Commission's take on the whole situation though, and their individual reasoning for what they did in lying about the royal family, rather than writing them all off as one-note baddies over the whole deal.

>seething after being the butt of cuck jokes for three years
lmao get fucked starcuck

I personally dislike Toffee being related to Eclipsa for the same reason I disliked Amon being a bender - it undermines the significance of this character taking a stand against the powers that be if they're actually part of the group they're challenging.

It also makes Toffee a shittier person than I think most people realise. I'm assuming the idea here is, "our boy Toffee wants his qt 3.14 Mewman gf uncrystallized, so he antagonises Moon into making a deal with the hopes Eclipsa will give her the Darkest Spell on the condition that she is freed"? Well, in that scenario, Toffee becomes the reason why the Darkest Spell is in the Queen's posession. Before that, the Mewnian queen couldn't kill Septarians because Eclipsa didn't write the spell down, she was sympathetic to monsters, and she was crystallized anyway. So Toffee sells out his entire race to get pussy.

...Except in that scenerio Eclipsa would still tell Moon her freedom was conditional upon Toffee's death. So Toffee either sells his entire race out for some pussy he'll never fuck, Eclipsa is a retard who accidentally sets her boyfriend up to die, or Eclipsa is a cunt and doesn't care about killing Toffee. While Eclipsa being a cunt could be interesting, this basically turns Toffee into a cuck.

There's a lot of unknowns here. Like how would Toffee know Moon would turn to Eclipsa and not just pull a Solaria and seperate the bodies of Septarians, how would he know Eclipsa would even give the spell and not withhold it out of solidarity with Septarians, if Moon would accpet the deal, etc. It just seems like if his goal was rescuing Eclipsa he'd be better off attacking Rhombulus by attacking Lekmet, blackmail, etc.

That's just my thoughts; though. oh and i ship moonfee

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good or no, it would still be something
his is a frustrating enigma

I liked that too, and the fact that the first Butterfly was also chosen randomly by Glossaryck was what I believed even at the time of the OMG PEASANT BLOOD reveal anyway (because the Butterfly family sure didn't make the wand themselves).

I just think it was a problem that they made such a big deal about it and that those episodes aired so far apart, because the biggest impression many fans and especially young kids, if any were even watching, will be left with is "Star isn't a Real Butterfly and That Is Bad."

The MHC never really came off as villains to me even as the show seemed to want you to feel they were and that they deserved being wiped from existence. Even if they wanted to make them blatantly evil, they could've done more with that than they did too. Was all pretty weak.

>have individual episodes for the commission members (except maybe Lekhmet, but even he sacrifices himself to save Moon) to be characterized as generally friendly and helpful to the main cast
>absolutely no dilemma presented when they are revealed to have done some shit or when they make a choice to do something that will kill all of them

I don't think that Toffee caring about Eclipsa and hating the system that's imprisoning her and threatening his people would inherently make him a part of the magic that he hates.

He could have his own plan and methods, set apart from what Eclipsa knows and wants to accomplish. So he wouldn't necessarily know that Moon would be willing to turn to Eclipsa for help. And Eclipsa wouldn't necessarily have to know who Moon was asking for help in killing.

unironically based

>I'm assuming the idea here is, "our boy Toffee wants his qt 3.14 Mewman gf uncrystallized, so he antagonises Moon into making a deal with the hopes Eclipsa will give her the Darkest Spell on the condition that she is freed"? Well, in that scenario, Toffee becomes the reason why the Darkest Spell is in the Queen's posession. Before that, the Mewnian queen couldn't kill Septarians because Eclipsa didn't write the spell down, she was sympathetic to monsters, and she was crystallized anyway. So Toffee sells out his entire race to get pussy.

For whatever it's worth, I saw this hypothetical fan fiction scenario as Toffee being unaware of the possibility of Eclipsa ever being willingly freed without his action, and Moon being lucky/crazy enough to think of contacting Eclipsa AND actually getting results from her. I don't think unfreezing Eclipsa and just letting people chat with her is common practice, or that Toffee would imagine they'd actually do that (think it was the first time Rhombulus did it too). Toffee would just be planning to slaughter the fairly defenseless new queen and Moon got desperate and sought another means of killing him.

It DOES make Eclipsa a retard though for handing away the spell and there's no escaping that, but then the show itself did Eclipsa the Retard anyway and I like the irony of Eclipsa knowing that she had a hand in killing her lover. I think that'd add to her anger and audience sympathy for her, if they played her as a villain or more antagonistic.

>still be something
Eh, I'm taking the RLM stance here: When discussing the prequels they said they were happy that Han Solo wasn't in it because it would have been terrible.

I agree, Toffee was woefully under-utilized, but I'd much rather have that than have his character ruined by some stupid bullshit. I already mentioned Korra. Classic example. Quality over quantity. I already disliked how he was "brought back" in Meteora's Lesson, I'm glad that wasn't expanded upon.

And, in all honesty, I found Eclipsa's monster dating spree pretty fucked up and racist. I'm not sure Toffee "We Must Secure the Existence of Our Lizard People" of Septarsis would be down with a Mewman thot who has a Mambo No. 5 approach to monster cock.

>Star isn't a Real Butterfly and That Is Bad
Especially since she follows up by saying, "no mom, we're nobody!"

I too loved the random assignment of the wand, but felt there wasn't enough attention drawn to it so the message was muddled.

Lekmet saved Moon's life! They had a funeral! Rhombulus teared up and called Star a sweetie! He was a gigantic teddy bear of a snake-armed-man and they fucking murdered him. Ombi discouraged war with the monsters. I'm fucking REEEEEing.

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> IMPLYING

>I don't think...part of the magic that he hates
That isn't what I was referring to. I was referring to the "Eclipsa is Toffee's mom" theories there. I think it's pretty retarded to have an anti-racism narrative and then have the smartest, most charismatic, and generally more attractive monster actually be half Mewman.

In terms of the "Toffee wuvs Eclipsa" (or any Mewman for that matter) theories, I do think it's unlikely for someone as resentful as Toffee is towards Mewmans / magic to then fuck a magical Mewman. It's like hardcore BLM people who think racemixing with honkies is fucked up and police each other for being race traitors.
>I WANT A STRONG INDEPENDENT LIZARD KWEEN NO MEWMAN THOT

However, as someone partial to a ship that involves Toffee with a magical Mewman (albeit it not Eclipsa) my point was not "Toffee liking Eclipsa makes him a traitor to all Septarians". My point was "Toffee facilitating the only spell that could slaughter his countrymen falling into the hands of the enemy during wartime to get pussy / because wuv is a pretty dick move". That's not the same as just having feelings for Eclipsa. That's actively prioritising her over possibly hundreds of people, and, if you want to be political, a Mewman royal over hundreds of monsters. Seems fucked up at best and seriously out of character at the worst.

>So he wouldn't necessarily know that Moon would be willing to turn to Eclipsa for help.
Oh so you just want, "Toffee used to bang Eclipsa and he just assumed she died and his current actions are independent of her"? I could live with that.

>For what it's worth....killing him
I prefer that. I love my trash ships but I'd hate for it to be his central motivation.

>I like the irony... her lover
I love the idea of Eclipsa fucking her own shit, too. Very Demona from Gargoyles. I like the idea of her killing Meteora and being hesitant to release Globgor because he would be horrified.

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> Toffee "We Must Secure the Existence of Our Lizard People" of Septarsis would be down with a Mewman thot who has a Mambo No. 5 approach to monster cock.
kek

Star being frustrated over not being a royal after her whole family legacy was built around it didn't bother me. I thought it made sense for her to feel upset after how much of her life was built around a lie. But I do wish that more was done with the idea that it didn't matter either way in the end.

One thing I liked about the side-material was the implication that the MCH basically treated Festivia as an adopted daughter and had different opinions regarding the conflict with the monsters. But none of that's really touched upon in favor of it just being part of another racist lie on their part.

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they orchestrated a smooth ass coup and succession of power and kept it a secret and running fine for over three hundred years

if nothing else you can't deny they ran a good deep state op

>Star being frustrated
That's not what bugged me, it was the phrasing. "We're nobody". Not, "We're just like everybody else"? Seems very harsh and in opposition to the anti-racism themes.

Plus Star never wanted to be queen - that doesn't mean she can't be shocked or frustrated about how much of herself she put into being a princess, but I can't see her being to horrified about it.

>Festivia was their adopted daughter
It makes me sad, in a good way. Festivia lived and died never knowing the truth. She thought her parents died. At least Star got to realise Eclipsa wasn't her great great something great grandma.

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I imagined that there was at least two writers trying to have a ship battle.

"I wrote an episode where it's revealed Star actually has a crush on Marco."
"Oh yeah? Well I wrote an episode where he's dating Jackie now."
"Well I'm gonna write an episode where she spaghettis her feelings to Marco right in front of Jackie"
"I wrote that Jackie and Marco break up so Marco can go to Mewni and be with Star"
"Well I wrote that she's dating Tom now."
"I'm gonna write in relationship problems between Star and Tom and heavily imply Star still has feelings for Marco"
"Well I'm gonna write that Marco and Star only like each other because of a blood moon curse, so haha, I win"
"I made Jackie a lesbian."
"Ffffffffuck yooooooou"

The few good writers teamed up to save Janna from Cotungo's grasp and gave her a mini arc in the last two seasons because they liked her.

Whoever they were, the writers who kept up Janna's fixation on Marco through to the end and even tied it into a last minute character arc were fucking heroes.

If the series had ended with Marco and Janna on the stretchers smiling at each other, it would have been a damn beautiful last minute salvage out of a trainwreck.

>I think it's pretty retarded to have an anti-racism narrative and then have the smartest, most charismatic, and generally more attractive monster actually be half Mewman.

It's like the reverse of the show's problem of how Meteora apparently became dumber and more destructive the more monstrous she became. I realize they were going for her mentally regressing, but that paired with her looking like an obvious monster was a bad combo when they could've just kept her looks the same and had her fighting Star and co. with magic.

Though I wouldn't really attribute Toffee being smart, charismatic, etc. to his Mewman side when Mewmans were so frequently portrayed as idiots. Toffee's unusually smart for the show's universe in general.

>In terms of the "Toffee wuvs Eclipsa" (or any Mewman for that matter) theories, I do think it's unlikely for someone as resentful as Toffee is towards Mewmans / magic to then fuck a magical Mewman.
I'm not actually a huge fan of the theory myself despite thinking it probably would've been better than what we got, or a shipper of the two for that matter, but I saw him getting with Eclipsa as something that would've happened before he went all out against Mewmans.

Like when he was younger and somewhat more idealistic he got with her, but then the way she was treated by society and her own family eventually shaped and cemented his views against them. I can see him being against the Butterflys in the first place, like most monsters are, but maybe somehow being into Eclipsa because everything about her is the opposite of her family. Hell, maybe they BOTH want to destroy the family and fight for monster rights.

I see this as involving a different Eclipsa than the one from the spellbook who just wanted to ride the monster cock carousel though. Before she'd had much screentime it was easy to imagine her having more complex motivations than she had.

>If the series had ended with Marco and Janna on the stretchers smiling at each other, it would have been a damn beautiful last minute salvage out of a trainwreck.
It would've nice to see Star and Marco grow up with what they learned from each other and become better people from it.

Did they tho? Sure they kept her being a creep that didn't respect his privacy but some eps it felt more like she really didn't actually like him very much and just enjoyed messing with his shit

>Meteora's transformation
Yeah, that was a little thoughtless. I personally hate how the show effectively killed Miss Heinous and replaced her with a new character. A jaded, angry old woman with an ace to grind is way more interesting to me than a female version of Captain Hero's son or that horrible baby.

>Though I wouldn't...general
Well, I'm sure the show's creators would attribute Meteora's regression to her monster-like attributes, but you still pointed out the uncomfortable implication. Same thing applies to half-Mewman Toffee.

>but I saw him getting with Eclipsa as something that would've happened before he went all out against Mewmans.
Basically how I ship Moonfee.

>the show would have benefitted from more abrupt adolescent romance
Ligger, what?

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>the show would have benefited from the SUGGESTION that these two characters, from the same realm and social strata might actually be the fit that works
I'm not even that guy, but I could have gone for them hinting that shit, everyone and their sink got shipped, maybe these two can make it work

>but you still pointed out the uncomfortable implication. Same thing applies to half-Mewman Toffee

What I meant was more that since even Moon and Star as representatives of the Butterfly family are portrayed as stupid, it wouldn't feel like him being smart is associated with them (also Buff Frog was recognized by Toffee more than once as being smart enough to pose a threat to his plans, so it's not like Toffee was the only example of an intelligent monster either). Whereas Meteora literally drinking the bog or smashing villages to the ground is more of an obvious stereotypical monster thing.

Though I was also thinking they could've dodged/clarified that issue by making Toffee's father, whoever he would've turned out to be in this scenario (Seth?), more like him, and thus also avoiding implications of [whatever] being from his Mewman side.

Yeah, no. The problems with the finale go beyond which teenagers fuck each other. Marco being cool about Hekapoo's demise, for example, is screwed up whether he ends up with Star or Janna.

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there's too many elements to count that are absolutely fucked with the ending
thoughts like this are just bandaids on a broken dam. laudanum for our hurt

It wouldn't have fixed things but would have made things slightly less shitty. First, there'd be no merging of worlds causing massive death and destruction to make the mess even worse. Second, keeping Star out of the picture could have encouraged some introspection on Marco's part as to how messed up the whole thing was, and then Janna could have chipped in her own thoughts since she also saw how messed up things everything was, leading to a mature heart-to-heart that you just couldn't get from Star.

>even Moon and Star as representatives of the Butterfly family are portrayed as stupid
Except they're really not. Moon was clever enough to use the Darkest Spell in such a way that Toffee lost all military support and Eclipsa was not freed. Star might be hyper, erratic, and unaccustomed to Earth's technology, but Star was also a magical prodigy (See Baby).

>Buff Frog
Buff's a great guy and Toffee saw him as a threat, yeah, but I don't see why you're bringing him up. He did just as much dumb stuff as Moon and Star (Buff Frog literally wielded baby toys on a stakeout and forgets his pants) but you call them dumb and him smart arbitrarily.

Like, you're trying to argue that Meteora's tantrum has worse implications than half-Mewman Toffee would by citing Buff Frog but you could cite Buff Frog for the opposite case as well. "Meteora's outburst didn't undermine the story's anti-racism narrative because characters like Buff Frog and Dennis are monsters and they're nice". Either the good / smart monster characters always mitigate the effect of bad implications or they don't. But you can't say they don't negate the problems with Meteora and then say they'd resolve any complications half-Mewman Toffee would produce.

>dodged the issue by showing Toffee's family
>Seth
Iunno, senpai. I wanted Seth too, but I think he would not help us out here. Seth contested Comet's peace treaty and is implied to have been the dude responsible for whatever instigated the Avarius-Septarsis treaty. Seth was an agitator and war monger who wanted to remove kebab...I mean Mewman. Associating Toffee's monster half with him while having cool, prodigal, beautiful Eclipsa as his Mewman mother sounds like it would just reinforce those bad implications and undermine the conceit of the narrative.

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In fairness
the conceit of the narrative was dump

>was dump
? I was referring to the anti-racism themes. Which, whether the show is good or bad, are very much there.

>Band-aid
Yeah, I don't care about Janna and found her annoying so that does nothing for me.

>introspection on Marco's part as to how messed up the whole thing was
That makes no sense, dude.

The ending already sucked, why would the creators call attention to it? "Hahahaha I know we just did some dumb shit so let's have the character's landshade that dumb shit". Why? If anything, that would have pissed me off more because that would confirm that they considered the ramifications of their choices and just didn't care.

Look, if you like Janna and want some cute self-insert shipping with her and Marco - be my guest. Have fun. I have my ships too. I'm just saying that approaching Jarco with this absurd notion that it would have improved the finale is hamstering. If anything, it would have made things worse since a big problem with the finale was how it rendered huge swaths of the show irrelevant. Backtracking that hard on Starco would have just thrown more things into the "shit that didn't matter at all" pile underwhich the show crumpled beneath.

plus I generally don't care about the teenaged characters and only really cafe about the adults and monsters

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>Backtracking that hard on Starco would have just thrown more things into the "shit that didn't matter at all" pile underwhich the show crumpled beneath.
The show got trampled already with Starco, this would've been the breath of fresh air.

>Except they're really not
I was saying "stupid" more as an exaggeration than meaning it literally. Meant more along the lines of Moon not searching for the other half of the wand until it's too late, Star publically revealing the spellbook's gone, etc. Just that they've fucked up more consistently, enough that Toffee being a competent manipulator wouldn't read as a "Butterfly thing."

Of course that's from my perspective and others could definitely read it differently.

>Buff Frog literally wielded baby toys on a stakeout and forgets his pants
Eh, I see those as quick jokes, whereas when he actually did stuff meant to be important he was pretty competent. I brought him up mainly because he actually interacts with Toffee.

>Either the good / smart monster characters always mitigate the effect of bad implications or they don't. But you can't say they don't negate the problems with Meteora and then say they'd resolve any complications half-Mewman Toffee would produce
It's hard to articulate, but my main problem is that the shit Meteora did is really obviously a stereotyped monster thing that even in-universe the Mewmans don't seem to do. Whereas Toffee being smart/competent doesn't seem limited to Mewmans and in fact is the opposite of them, so to me it doesn't read as badly.

Probably more personal views though. If all the monsters were idiots across the board I'd also find the idea of Toffee as a half-Mewman problematic.

>Seth
Honestly I just mentioned Seth because I think he's the only named Septarian not from Toffee's generation, not for any of his characteristics which I really wasn't thinking of at the time. More like I can imagine a different characterization of Seth to go with a different characterization of Eclipsa.

>hat would confirm that they considered the ramifications of their choices and just didn't care.
They never fucking cared after season 3.

>Backtracking that hard on Starco would have just thrown more things into the "shit that didn't matter at all" pile underwhich the show crumpled beneath.
It would have still mattered for Marco's character development.

>but Star and Moon did dumb stuff too, so half-Mewman Toffee being more competent than the average monster wouldn't have negative implications
>but Dennis and Buff Frog did nice things too, so Meteora having a meltdown and being more violent and stupid than the average Butterfly wouldn't have negative implications
You gotta be consistent in your arguments. Like I said, either it works for both or it works for neither.

>stereotyped monster thing
I'll concede that's a slight difference but I don't think it matters much. Toffee is shown to be a natural leader. He went rogue, ousted Batwin, lead the monster army as general, and then overthrew Ludo. Having that same Toffee be half Mewman in a story where Mewmans have consistently ruled over, lead, micromanaged, and dominated monsters (the whole Jelly Goodwell episode) strikes me as just as nefarious and fucked up as Meteora's monster like attributes correlating with her destructive behaviour.

>only mentioned Seth, Buff Frog
Fair enough. Anyway, night, user.

...okay? Great? I still don't want how little they didn't care thrusted into mt face by having Marco declare how what happened sucked.

His development? How?
>Marco goes from chasing girls and having brief relationships (Jackie, Kelly) to immediately forgetting about Star and instantly considering Janna girlfriend material
>character development
>at the finale

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Turns out it was Janna

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>make a starcuck joke
>starcuck immediately rushes into damage control
Lmao

>instantly considering
But the original poster didn’t say that. It just ends with them smiling after their last adventure. This would’ve better then the shitstorm we got instead.

Maybe just to try to make my thoughts a little clearer and touch on what I was trying to get at but couldn't articulate too well in my last post:

I think my major problem and the reason I feel canon Meteora vs. the idea of Toffee being half-Mewman aren't really equivalent is that Meteora literally transformed. I don't think I'd find her portrayal so bad if they kept her looking as she did in Skooled (it seems like shit like her drinking the bog was only thought of by the writers because LOL SHE HUGE). It's the fact that she simultaneously becomes more destructive and animalistic while also visually looking more and more like a monster.

From my perspective, the equivalent of that with Toffee would be him literally changing to look more Mewman like some shitty gijinka, or them making him exaggeratedly monstrous at times to emphasize him being dangerous. But since he always looked pretty much the same, and always looked more like a monster than anything, it's harder to make the connection to "this is because of Mewmans."

Hope that helps some? My argument feels pretty consistent in my own mind but I know I'm doing a shit job describing it.

>natural leader
I feel like this could be seen as mitigated through him doing this through intelligence rather than brute force through magic (except maybe killing Comet, except that's still a massive gray area). I think that was a major theme with Toffee anyway, using technology etc. in his plans; that he was working around the power the Butterflys had in a totally different way from their MO. Basically Toffee creatively taking out his obstacles rather than pointing a wand at them until they go away or being a leader because of magic making right.

But yeah, even with all that I'm honestly not in love with the theory I'm arguing for. I just think it could've been better than what we got and I'm kind of playing devil's advocate. A better alternative would've been to just use Eclipsa and Meteora better than they did

We will never reach maximum cucked like Star ever again.

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I love every season of Star vs. but the first one is the weakest.
OP is clearly a fag.

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"We're going to try and do a serious plot in our show. But we don't have anything like an ending in mind. So we can't really build up to it, foreshadow it, lay out the framework needed to support it, etc." - the writers of Adventure Time, Voltron: Legendary Defender, and Star vs. The Forces of Evil.

There's nothing worse for a narrative these days than people trying to be "epic" while flailing around without any concrete idea of what they actually want to work towards.

>Seeing Star change and grow
Which was because of Marco. Marco was the reason why Star decided to grow up. The show focused on the Starco dynamic the first two seasons, but gradually drifted away from it in favor as the series progressed in favor of side characters who decided to show up more in the series

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What the fuck are you talking about.

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>”Don’t you ever let me catch you fucking another girl Marco... without letting me watch.”

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>Star what's with the weird green guys?
>Just a bunch of losers who couldn't take the L that was always meant for them. Pay them no mind. Now shall we get back to looovin? We still have 999 kids to go...

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I think it was more the crew knew the ending was always Star and Marco getting and staying together, then went crazy filling in the blanks to get there.

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I wonder why the jannies hate Mexican food

What you don't know is that old lady is actually Starfan from the future in black face. She's double dipping on the cute you see.

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Still a fun ride. Even the imposter Brolyfag being the Based Akuposter for Curse of the Blood Moon