DC in the Eighties

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>and no executive meddling.
Oh there definitely was. Case in point got canceled because someone in editorial didn't believe anyone would care about the JSA. That was also probably the reason they allowed Dan Jurgens to end the JSA in Zero Hour, but then James Robinson did Starman and later JSA with Goyer and proved younger readers were interested in the characters.

Any good recommendations if I enjoyed Ostrander's Suicide Squad? I loved how he mixed politics with a great comic book story.

Sorry, I meant EXECUTIVE meddling, specifically muh movie/TV synergy. Editorial interference is just part of work-for-hire comics, more or less always. 80s Marvel, another high point of Big 2 comics, was full of it.

I would extend it to 2005. Say what you will, I loved the Infinite Crisis era.
Late 90s/early 2000s were peak DC.

Have you read Copra?

Because writers understand politics was more than "everything I don't like is a nazi."

No I haven't! Is it Dc, I'm itching to try a new comic desu as I have been struggling to find any that have interested me in a while. Whats it like?

Chase (and its sequel, Ostrander's Martian Manhunter run) was a great black-ops DCU comics.

Rucka's Checkmate run, Busiek's Power Company, Sandman Mystery Theatre, Ellis' Stormwatch. Those are all superhero-political thrillers of one kind or another, I'd say.

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Today Grell wouldn't be allowed to write so many issues of Green Arrow cause it would have to tie into DC or be an elseworld/Black Label that would only be 6 issues

When did image related become the norm?

I'm thinking it was between the Image Exodus* and the popularity of Burton's Batman and Rami's Spider-Man when the stockholders started to see comics as IP farms to be managed rather than an end unto themselves.

*Yeah, I know that was Marble's Top Talent, but if you've ever seen a documentary about that time you'd know that they literally marched out of the Marble offices ( having just quit in mass ) and into the DC offices just down the road where the DC Editorial thought they'd just woken up on X-Mas fucking morning before they dropped the bomb that they weren't going to work for them EITHER!

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It's basically 80s Suicide Squad fanfic with 70s Marvel mixed in. It's by a really talented sci-fi indie writer/artist and it's just moved to Image, who'll be re-printing the first 5 trades shortly (if not already).

tl;dr, it's like if Keith Giffen and Klaus Janson were doing Suicide Squad meets Dr Strange.

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because event sold, and events are editorially-driven, not writer-driven most of the time. So most of the universe gets pulled in the direction of next year's crossover and individual creativity is strangled.

Def gonna give them a shot, thanks for the recommendations. I love Gaimen anyway, so any excuse to read his comics/ spin offs.

And marvel was even better in that period

Never heard of it gonna check them out! Keith Giffen gets a bad rep I feel in Yea Forums as he is so balls to wall political. Sometimes he is OTT with it but I feel like comics are great space for writers to send a message but also gives a bit of action to excite the reader.

I miss Duchess so much.

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>implying marvel was good in the years 1993-2005

it's so fucking funny to me that DC tried to do their cinematic universe with New Gods villains in Justice League and then Suicide Squad but just didn't even try to do Duchess, which would require planning but still. It's rare to even see the pieces line up that close

OP said the 80's

>someone in editorial
Mike Carlin. We only have the writer's word, but he claims that his Justice Society of America book was doing JUST fine when Carlin killed it because he didn't think that the audiences would like old people.
I need to double check, but I think Carlin was also behind Jade joining the Kyle GL book and Alan getting his youth restored

As much as I love DC's villiians I felt they rushed it too much. DC has ther best overpowered villians in comics howevcer they went too hartd too early. This ruuin trheir impact and the adiences worry for the main characters.

I still believe the Snyder Justice League would have been good.

Writers used to care about what they worked on.

Hell, his opinion for the entire time he was writing Warlord was that it took place in it's own little universe. Even after he secretly left the book and his wife kept writing it under his name.
The moment he left, The New Gods were introduced, and more and more DC stuff slipped in after CoIE.
Apparently Mike Gold had to convince him to have Morgan appear in that little "mistaken identity" story line in Green Arrow

Post crisis modern era was DC's pinnicle (87-1993) but everything afterward was solid and reliable even through Infinite Crisis, but Flashpoint was a huge mistake. Even now I don't know if DC can really fix it.

Maybe try a little bit of Checkmate vol 1. It's not a very smart book, but does read like a Bond film

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I just remembered that it doesn't really have an ending though.
Or rather, it has an anti-climactic ending

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Because DC was on the ropes and willing to try anything to make sales.

then said "fuck the CCA" after 1985

Comics have always been political. People give writers a bad rap if their books have politics they disagree with.

Suicide Squad is one of the few post-Crisis renaissance titles I never got into. Some of my favorites from this time include Atlantis Chronicles, Hawkworld, and Green Arrow.

sjws

Hey guys, I'm trying to read some of this older DC stuff but I can't find any good torrents. What sites do you guys use? I'm specifically looking for Swamp Thing, Suicide Squad, and The Flash

Fuck off, pirate.

Ebay

There are several reasons
>Ability to take risks
Editorial enforces a status quo that tries to simultaneously pander to moviefags and oldfags, meaning there is no room for growth. DC is also now stuck to a lot of Batman, Green Lantern and Superman titles which doesn't help.
>talent drain
Comics have had a pretty reduced readership in the last 25 years so there's a reduced number of people who are setting out dreaming of becoming writers and artists. It's also become a smaller industry with the marketshare centralizing to DC and Marvel which means there's a lot less opportunity for talented writers aspiring to other mediums to stumble through the back door into comics. The rise of webcomics also means that some talented creators go over the top of the industry in its entirety (honestly usually for the worse in terms of their skills).
>shitty corporate managment
Marvel currently has a tyrant in Ike Perlmutter who refuses to pay enough to draw talent from outside of the industry, they also have a retarded policy where writers cannot be editors and vice versa (as well as artists being editors), this appears to be a defacto policy at DC below the executive level. DC and Marvel's heydays included all kinds of editors writing, and Dick Giordano is probably the best executive editors' DC's ever had. Both companies have also been forced to bow to the movies as they have become more popular. The corporate management also has failed to recognize up and coming talent and give in it a due place in their company

Shit sucks. pic unrelated

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google it

I say it was a combination of Jenette Kahn, Dick Giordano, and Paul Levitz. Kahn was willing to take risks on stuff (sometimes they went bad like the DC Implosion, other times it worked out like Vertigo) Dick Giordano is the best executive editor as you mentioned, and people gave Paul Levitz shit over his handling of The Authority and Tomorrow Stories/Moore but once he stepped down, that was when DC did major changes happened like the push for Watchmen prequels and sequels and the reduction of royalties for usage of things that writers and artists introduced (except for characters, and even then that was starting to get micromanaged, see what happened with Gerry Conway).

>nd even then that was starting to get micromanaged, see what happened with Gerry Conway).
Please elaborate, I love industry stories

comicsalliance.com/gerry-conway-dc-royalty-system-caitlin-snow/

Caitlin Snow was Killer Frost, but she was not the Killer Frost that Gerry Conway and Al Milgrom came up with; Caitlin was created by Sterling Gates and Derlis Santacruz. This ended up being a problem since neither would be able to get compensated.

Also in that article Waid explained what Paul Levitz used to do back when he was at DC:

>The confusion about extra-media compensation arises in that [Paul] Levitz, while he was DC’s publisher, made it a policy to cut respectable bonus checks to writers and artists, regardless of legal obligation, if elements from any of their stories (even work-for-hire ones) made it into outside media adaptations movies or TV shows... It wasn’t legally necessary, it was totally at Paul’s discretion and only Paul knows what math he used to determine what he felt would be fair, but it was a goodwill gesture from an exec sympathetic to the creative community.

>And most critically, it wasn’t a written policy or guarantee. It was a courtesy.

>Once Paul left, that courtesy was deemed no longer necessary by the executives and the policy was rolled back, as was DC’s absolute prerogative.

Thanks! I wonder if anyone was able to make a claim for Killer Frost after she started to use that name as the show progressed.
I bet Gates (as a writer for The Flash tv series) used her specifically in the hopes to get some money from it.

Still wasn't better than DC.

>This
Not to mention the British Invasion happening right around this time

Because they didn't listen to fanboys back then. Today they'd cancel Grell's GA or O'Neil's Question because of being too grimdark and "not muh" outrage. Back in the day, Chaykin called out the basement dwellers and wrote his run on Shadow anyway. DC weren't afraid to hard reboot their top characters like Superman and Wonder Woman.

>Because they didn't listen to fanboys back then.

Not exactly. Something that didn't work just quietly got shuffled off and replaced, and on top of that there were enough new readers that liked the stuff to make up for it.

Blaming the fans is stupid since it avoids the fact that there's some creators and editors in the 2010's aren't as skilled as the ones in the 80's.

This is always a cop out for the bad writers. The reality is that there was a higher concentration of good writers and editors in the 80s.

Comics are that good still, you're doing the same mistake ever zoomer newfag does, you assume everything was of the same quality as X because you're completely unaware of all the shit that was terrible from the era. The only difference is that there's so much fucking product coming out that it's now more of a challenge to always find the good comics from the sea of shit than it was when there were far less comics coming out each month.

>but just didn't even try to do Duchess

What's the fucking point of doing Lashina in a movie that way? Pander to the nine people who'd care?

>Keith Giffen gets a bad rep I feel in Yea Forums as he is so balls to wall political.

Yea Forums gets pissy about Giffen because he doesn't give a flying fuck what the fans think and will frequently write blatantly salty "well fuck YOU!" closing issues when his pet projects get cancelled.

>Because they didn't listen to fanboys back then.
A Death in the Family

i use >getcomics.info/ to download my comics there's other resources to download comics too but this site got a decent collection

It was just kind of a perfect storm for dc at the time. There was lots of top tier talent that were in their prime at the time along with up and coming new talent, dc just rebooted their universe to it gave way for new interpretation for their characters, and the British invasion which gave a new depth to comics that nobody brought to the table before or at least brought to the mainstream reader.

Retard

DCUniverse

Fuck off with this Byrne hate already. I don't understand why people nowadays act like he has done nothing good.

Snyder didn't want Darkseid, but young Uxas. I liked his idea, but alas...

I loved the shit out of this series.