What went wrong with First Wave?
What went wrong with First Wave?
Connor Rodriguez
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Juan Cruz
The same as with Black Label. Azzarello.
Bentley Garcia
WOAH, im having a weird Flashback right now...i dont know why i tried to read this when I was in 4th grade...i kinda wanna revisit it now
Brandon Stewart
I remember this had like a massive promotion behind it
DC were going to create a whole mini-verse with multiple characters and series participating
Sheena and the Blackhawks and Black Canary were all supposed to be in it too, I remember seeing promotional art of them in with Bat and Doc and Spirit
What the fuck happened
What did he do wrong?
I'm downloading it all on soulseek right now
There is the Batman/Doc Savage one off
First Wave 1-6
Doc Savage 1-17
The Spirit 1-17
Was there anything else?
Aiden Cruz
Was there an "Avenger" miniseries? Or black hawks? I know they showed up but i dont know if they do to do anything
Julian Thompson
don't remember, that's why I asked
Nolan Turner
The Avenger was a back-up in a comic. I forget which one, maybe the First Wave Doc Savage series. Blackhawks I think only showed up in the main mini.
Kevin Diaz
Okay I have all 17 issues of Doc and the Doc/Bat one off is downloading
Soon as that's done I will create a new thread to post it and then First Wave
And we can discuss what went wrong
Benjamin Cook
The concept is a great one, putting together a varied bunch of DC characters (Batman, Rima, the Blackhawks) with non-DC characters (The Spirit, Doc Savage, The Avenger) and trying to create a unique world.
But there were a lot of problems with First Wave.
-The main mini felt dragged out
-Longtime fans of the characters (and keep in mind, even though the original pulps of Doc Savage and The Avenger were published in the 30's and 40's, they got reprinted and read during the 70's and 80's) were turned off by the depiction of some of the characters. I kinda liked the Avenger backups, but having read the pulps years later, I can definitely see why people didn't like the First Wave version.
-The side series like The Spirit and Doc Savage didn't feel like they acknowledged the rest of the DC characters. But I haven't read it in a while so I don't know if I was wrong about that.
-The best comics from the line overall was the Spirit series. I've heard Doc Savage fans say the JG Jones-written issues of Doc Savage were good but I haven't read them.
I think a part of what also killed it was that they constantly needed to get approval from Conde Nast, and they also had the New 52 on the way. There was also going to be a First Wave Batman series by Azzarello and Chiang, then when the First Wave line was canceled, the plan was to move that project over to Vertigo. But then New 52 Wonder Woman got in the way of their plans to do it.
Isaiah Cox
>What went wrong with First Wave?
People didn't want pulp magazines.
I liked the first wave Spirit series, have nearly every issue. Both ebony and the octopus got a sex change.
Landon Clark
>Was there anything else?
There's also a First Wave Special published in 2011, this teamed Doc with Batman as they try to stop The Avenger.
Also, Doc Savage actually ran for 18 issues, but #18 was released digitally only.
Cameron Jones
Also another problem: The book got heavily delayed.
Ethan Nguyen
I wouldn't mind seeing a retro DC title in the tradition of Sandman Mystery Theatre
Focus on the JSA in the 1930s
Probably one or two spin offs for the characters guaranteed to sell like Batman
Juan Green
Benjamin Hill
It's not Next Wave
Jaxson Moore
being out of continuity it really shouldn't be affected by publication wide reboots of their superhero comics
Ryan Phillips
I loved the idea of First Wave and Dynamite's Masks series and wished someone could combine the two (to have the characters of both), and write it in a way to avoid the mistakes of both.
Like for instance I liked that First Wave had a more varied cast, Batman, Doc Savage, The Spirit, The Avenger, and the Blackhawks did very different things. This would be harder to do with something like Masks because so many of the characters like The Shadow, The Spider, and others overlap.
Charles Stewart
It shouldn't, but the thing is that it's costly. there's two licenses they got from Conde Nast (Doc Savage and The Avenger) and a license from Eisner's estate (for The Spirit). First Wave wasn't doing too well before the New 52, so they would more likely focus on New 52 stuff (which is why the First Wave/Vertigo Batman never got off the ground, because the guys who were supposed to do it had to prioritize the New 52 Wonder Woman), end the First Wave stuff, and not have to pay more for the licenses.
Landon Davis
>What went wrong with First Wave?
Accountants: we have a shitload of our own characters. Why pay license fees for some other characters?
Samuel Garcia
just look at successful team/ensemble comics and why they worked and do that - in the 1930s and 40s
Charles Long
Here's Chiang's Bat-Man
bleedingcool.com
What annoys me is that he actually got the gun-toting Batman closer to the 1939 version than Noto and Morales did. I don't know if it was their decision or Azzarello's or the editors', but all the other First Wave designs of Batman felt like "regular Batman, but he uses guns".
Juan Perez
>What annoys me is that he actually got the gun-toting Batman closer to the 1939 version than Noto and Morales did.
Forgot to say, what annoys me is that he got it closer to the 1939 version, but his stuff didn't get made into a book.
Josiah Adams
That design is for the revised concept as published by Vertigo after First Wave stopped
Henry Cox
See that's still making me think Chiang should've been the one working on the main First Wave in the first place.
Xavier Perez
Considering how shitty Batman: Damned is (even disregarding the penis-shitstorm), we porbably lucked out on not having a mature readers Batman by Azz before
Nathan Roberts
and mediocre First Wave was
Jayden Hill
Love this design so much.
Cameron Lee
This was used for a variant, wasn't it?