I know this might be a stupid question, but why the fuck hasn't the Justice League taken in Barry for his heinous fuckup AKA "Flashpoint"? Especially what he did to Wally. He killed his family. No way to sugar-coat that. I thought "Flash-War" would have brought Barry's bullshit to the public but it appears limited to just Wally 1 and Wally 2 realizing Barry's a cunt.
>Do the JLA even know there was a world before Barry's fuckup?
Fuck the Flash
Brandon Wood
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Josiah Mitchell
When will Wally steal Hartley back from Barry
Lincoln Evans
If you start making them think about the actual fallout of Flashpoint then they'd have to realize the only reason THEY EXIST is because of it and Barry. Without that their lives and their experiences would be different. They would be different people, but...THEY, themselves, would never exist. Just some nebulous other version. A different person.
Would you want that undone? Would you want your life cut short on the platonic ideal that some other life in some other universe could live? Even if you agree, would you force it on other people?
Barry fucked up, but it's not something you can punish him for.
Charles Foster
Dr.M and Pandora did it.
I love how you ignore the old story where Wally goes back in time and everyones dead.
Samuel Cox
His family's not even dead. Bart proved that. They're just stuck somewhere else. Zolomon knows where, too, but he's a dick about it.
Sebastian Campbell
To be honest more and more things from the Pre-Flashpoint universe are coming back to continuity, so it's the fucking same. Wally is one of the few that are still fucked up alongside Tim and probably the original TT.
Ryan Richardson
Sure but in this particular instance where you're judging Barry's actions in some weird cosmological, life or death sense then it's a weird thing to justify.
You can maybe realize that Barry should stop time travelling to avoid this shit but you can't stop The Flash from time travelling. It'd be like saying Batman could never solve mysteries. It's too important to the character's stories.
Henry Ross
Come on, user. All he wanted was to have his mom back. It's all Zoom's fault, Barry doesn't deserve this.
Christian Jackson
>Barry fucked up, but it's not something you can punish him for.
I'm willing to say the JL should set a precedent wherein if Barry time travel one more time "intentionally" he will be formally locked up or put down depending on the circumstances.
>Wally is one of the few that are still fucked up
I don't know why but Wally's entire circumstance is absolutely horrifying. He had years and years of his life ripped away and he had the biggest kick in the dick of being dropped off in a younger inexperienced body. He has the mind of an adult a good 6-10 years above his teammates (I could be overestimating) and considering they are the "Teen Titans" i wonder what shit they have in common. Wally was paying bills and health insurance for his kids and living up the married life. I doubt Tim is even 21. Speaking as someone that had friends in the early 20s when I was in my late ish twenties was massive. They made so many goddamn mistakes it made me want to drive my head through a wall.
Caleb Watson
And I want my Dad back. I wouldn't even need to stop a murderer, just go back and tell him five to ten years ago to cut it on the booze or he'll drink himself to death. As heartbreaking as it is, I wouldn't do it. Too much has happened. Too many people have grown/shown the real them. And I'm not even a hero. Barry should hold himself to a higher standard. The second he decided to pull that shit for himself he stopped being a hero. Would he do these things for Bruce/Clark? Just change the past because "muh feelings"? You don't fuck with time travel. Barry at the very least should be in Iron Heights.
Eli Jenkins
>I'm willing to say the JL should set a precedent wherein if Barry time travel one more time "intentionally" he will be formally locked up or put down depending on the circumstances.
Could they stop him? How do you stop a man who can time travel at will, who can move faster than Superman, and who can phase through physical objects? Once Barry is gone into the past, then what?
Ian Myers
You bring up a good point. They're going to need the Legion of Superheroes on this one (as they problem have some safeguard built due to time travel shenanigans) or some form of a mystical indicator of when shit hits the fan. I think Dr. Fate or Constantine could possibly pull that off but like you said, The Flash could one shot the Justice League (if the writer wanted it). Curious as to how prepared the JL could be if they had to bring in Flash. Just brings to mind that JL episode where Luthor is in Flash's body and basically takes the entire Watchtower.
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JLU is probably my favorite rendition of the character. I know this Wally's personality may not match Post-Crisis Wally, but I fucking love how his powers are portrayed. He's fast as hell, but definitely fallible and only has a few of his counterparts abilities. When he needs to though, he can literally lap the world to whup your ass.
Thomas Edwards
>I'm willing to say the JL should set a precedent wherein if Barry time travel one more time "intentionally" he will be formally locked up or put down depending on the circumstances.
I could kind of see this, but only as hypocritical self preservation. They only exist because of Barry...and the Barry who did it doesn't even exist anymore!
Jack Jenkins
Didn't Barry only go back to save his mom because Mirror Master fucked up his brain and he wasn't in his right state of mind?
Michael Martin
People beat up Barry all the time. He's the most consistent jobber in the JL, just like Wally was before him. They literally made a pod that disconnects people from the Speed Force in Flash Rebirth. If it can stop Thawne it can stop Barry.
The only Flash who you might have issues stopping is Wally, purely because one of his most stated abilities is he can't be separated from the Speed Force after Terminal Velocity. Unlike Thawne, Barry, Wallace, or Bart, Wally's permanently got that shit up his butt because it's in love with him and tsundere for him.
Hunter Morales
I think it's only fair that The Quintessence hold a trial to determine Barry's fate.
>It was Dr. Manhattan/Pandora
Barry got the ball rolling
>But he fixed it
He "fixed" it. Doesn't undo the crime.
It's an okay story idea at the very least. Barry should AT LEAST have to answer for his selfish moment of weakness
Evan Green
He knows he went back and changed things. Things that are irreparply changed. Quantifying the damage is damn near impossible, but he knew what he was doing. ANd just because things "worked out" doesn't give him a pass for this level of fuckup. What he did was mess with the very fabric of time. The fact Batman doesn't have him squirreled away in some super secret room in his Batcave .
I don't remember that, but if this is the case I am willing to mulligan most of what I said.
Wally has been through so much. He's already lost his kids once. Losing them twice is just torture. He doesn't deserve this. No hero deserves this.
Cooper Davis
Thawne's actions don't give Barry the right to fuck with the entire timeline. Eboard's own mischief with time in actuality was supposed to happen, him creating Barry and in turn himself, etc. What I find so damn hypocritical is how Barry and everyone else act like Wally is a raving lunatic for even thinking of trying to bring his family back when everyone turns a blind eye to what Barry did. Hell Batman doesn't say jack shit because he managed to get a letter from his dad out of the deal
Gabriel Clark
Read the final issues of the mediocre volume 3 run and that's what happened. McCulloch hit a giant glass case that said "Hit in case Barry Allen comes back" and it was supposed to unleash the power of the mirror verse to interfere with the Flash's abilities or something so The Rogues could win.
What happened was a rather vague, technicolor hallucination of Barry's mind getting muddled or whatever.
Landon King
No one punished Wally for his actions. They tried to get him help. They only punished him after he killed dozens of people and did a bunch of other crimes.
Adrian Wright
Seriously. So many DC characters have a mantra of "fuck you, got mine" when it comes to these kind of acts. In hindsight this page just makes me pissed off. I just can't but feel for Wally in this circumstance. He's literally hugging his family's murderer with open arms.
Unpopular Opinion:
After re-reading Flash War, I can sorta kinda see how Flash would have fucking lost it during Heroes in Crisis. I'd argue out of all the heroes there he was easily the most in pain as well as the most powerful.
Now I'm not blaming the Sanctuary Staff (although I don't understand why giving personal holodecks to everyone was a good idea), but the JL really should have considered putting him away from everyone else considering he was literally two steps away from pulling a "Barry Allen". I'm still not 100% on exactly how/why Wally fried everyone, but given how utterly fucked he was prior to Heroes in Crisis I understand. I don't condone, but I get it. Wally has been treated like absolute garbage and while I'm happy he's alive, this is just heartbreaking on a multitude of levels.
William Garcia
>"Wally I know it sucks and you could probably pull your kids out from the timeline like I did with Jay briefly, and most certainly give Linda her memories back, but instead we're shipping you off to a holodeck looney bin so you can relive what you lost most dear to you again and again so you can get over it."
Kind of fucked when you lay it all out like that.
Seeing Wally these days is heartbreaking. He lost EVERYTHING, and is a foreigner to this entire timeline. Imagine the kick in the balls it must be to lose your children not once, but twice. Zolomon can't hurt Wally even if he wanted to
Daniel Gutierrez
>Especially what he did to Wally. He killed his family.
That was Manhattan.
Noah Perry
Everything about this post is goddamn devastating. I didn't want this thread to be a sad Wally thread but I feel like it's kinda appropriate. My hatred for Barry is interesting. He expresses remorse, but not as much as I would like. If he held no recollection of Flashpoint I'd be more considerate but he knows full well what he did and what he cost everyone, and the fact he doesn't have a sense of guilt utterly kicking his ass is not devastating. Even going to prison wouldn't stop his superheroing. I bet Amanda Waller would sign him to a Suicide Squad so fast it'd make your head spin.
So Barry did Flashpoint, Wally's family was still alive, Manhatttan then just wiped Wally's family for shits and giggles, and that is the basic gist of the situation? I've been out of comics for a tiny bit and this makes no sense to me.
James Morales
Wally expressly could not give Linda her memories back. That's his whole problem. The magic zap doesn't work on her for some reason.
Jace King
>Seeing Wally these days is heartbreaking. He lost EVERYTHING, and is a foreigner to this entire timeline. Imagine the kick in the balls it must be to lose your children not once, but twice. Zolomon can't hurt Wally even if he wanted to
I kind of want a story now where Zolomon beats up Barry while Wally is in jail and whispers in Barry's ear, "I'll help Wally. Unlike you." then goes and busts Wally out and does the weirdest, crazy man face turn ever.
Because he feels bad. Because all the tragedy actually didn't help and he ended up being wrong and now he's a little guilty about kicking this all off.
Ryder Gutierrez
>The magic zap doesn't work on her for some reason.
Well that's fucking convenient now is it? Face it, DC WANTS to throw Wally under the bus to prop up Barry.
David Watson
Write these scripts out man. Save them for a rainy day and sell them back to DC for a price. I doubt Barry will ever get his comeuppance in this universe so that story is just waiting for you. GET ON THAT SHIT!
Blake Moore
This isn't news.
The second Magenta started fabricating things from after Wally became The Flash (their adult romance, the mansion, etc) the premise that his magic zaps only worked on pre-crisis relationship and info was shattered.
It's just that they don't care about Linda and find Wally more valuable as a punching bag. Linda makes Wally happy and that is not allowed.
Evan Bennett
I agree fully with everything you said in spirit and logical assumptions dear user, but I must be the loser who goes AKTSHULLY on the timeline stuff.
New52 was just officially five years since Superman's debut, then Rebirth special slapped in another five years, and Superman Reborn restored the timeline to its pre-Flashpoint amount, roughly fifteen years or so since Superman premiered. On a technical level Wally's back to the same age he ought be physically and nominally he's not mentally aged older than his generation. He just happens to have officially led a different life in the new merged New52/Rebirth-onward timeline than the pre-Flashpoint one he remembers, and Tim hadn't hit his 20s at all yet in any sense of comic book time even pre-Flashpoint - he's about 18-19, a college freshman.
Basically the sheer passage of time is 'corrected' and everyone's the age they ought be and lived up to. It's just it's an alternate timeline than the pre-Flashpoint one Wally lived and remembered. I don't doubt continuity's a big ole' clusterfuck and hate that, don't worry, but Reborn nominally at least fixed it up so everyone aged up properly as they did pre-Flashpoint with plenty of time for adventures, different, shittier lives or not.
Lincoln Green
Superman Reborn did not affect everyone. It only affected characters directly related to or important to Superman.
Since Wally was never a part of the JL, Superman's new history just assumes Barry has always been around for him.
Jordan Carter
Rebuttal: Barry didn't do shit. Flashpoint was the active effort of Eobard Thawne to fuck with Barry by rigging multiple divergences from the timeline to create an exceptionally shitty timeline then claiming that Barry saving his mother was the sole cause. Time travel in the DCU doesn't work with Flashpoint; there are extensive numbers of time travelling heroes and villains who have never triggered a Flashpoint event. Thawne himself regularly creates larger divergences in the timeline without so much as a peep. Furthermore, we the audience are quite aware of the original timeline, the one where Nora Allen wasn't killed by Thawne, and there was no Amazonian/Atlantean war, in that timeline Barry Allen became a forensic scientist and later the superhero known as the Flash. The post-Flashpoint DCU is nothing more than Barry being unable to fix all of the changes inflicted on the timeline by Thawne, with a side helping of Dr. Manhattan messing with things.
tl;dr: Flashpoint was supposed to be contained alt-timeline story that was hastily repurposed into a linewide reboot and as such falls apart once you think about it from the perspective of existing continuity.
Jose Taylor
Wait are you on about? First of all, Flashpoint was all Barry. Thawne wouldn't dare rob himself of his greatest victory, nor would he risk his own existence given that Barry HAS to become The Flash for Thawne to exist. When Barry caused Flashpoint, Thawne just rolled with it, and was willing to watch Armageddon unfold because his greatest enemy did everything and more than what Eobard ever could. The only way Thawne got to sit and watch Barry's shitshow was because his personal timeline is such a tangled mess. And speaking of Eobard's timeline, it actually didn't fuck up the main timeline all that much despite his numerous trips to the past. Why? Because Thawne's timeline still correlates with every that's supposed to happen with everything else kind of like weird Back To The Future rules.
Evan Ross
>quite aware of the original timeline, the one where Nora Allen wasn't killed by Thawne,
In the same sense that there was a timeline where Sarah Connor was impregnated by someone other than Kyle Reese in order to give birth to John. When Kyle went back he supplanted the original father and and took over.
That is a lot of what ifs there user.
The more I'm exposed to it, the more I enjoy Wally's Rebirth costume. I like that it looks distinctly separate from Barry.
Asher Turner
Then by that logic Flashpoint wouldn't occur, since Barry saving his mom would line up with those rules.
Evan Powell
John Conner is a closed time loop, which can exist under Terminator time travel rules.
Ian Diaz
Kyle was always John's dad though
Carter Russell
No because Barry is interfering with his personal timeline. Thawne is smart enough not to fuck with things in his personal timestream. From his perspective the past is his future
Jose Gutierrez
Thawne has repeatedly fucked with his personal timeline, remember the one-shot?
Joshua Gray
I'm willing to argue that Thawne is just good like that. Unlike Barry...he knows what he's doing.
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Jose Wright
It's a stupid story anyways.
Barry's mom doesnt die so every thing changes because, of course, speedforce, in some convoluted and ludicrous butterfly effect.
Why they didnt just keep it in Flash's title and decide to reboot the entire line on it, I'll never understand. The worst thing at the time were the rushed endings most titles got in lieu of a real chance to wrap things up. The Teen Titans beating up Superboy Prime comes to mind.
Joseph Mitchell
This, Barry should be in jail, not Wally.
Also as someone barely following DC these days, what's the excuse for Wally going to jail for a few accidental murders but Harley gets to go free despite killing hundreds of kids on purpose?
Grayson Thomas
Yeah I forgot about that. Easier answer; time travel plots fucking suck
Gavin Morris
>Barry fucked up, but it's not something you can punish him for.
We punish people for murder all the time.
Levi Peterson
My fucking man.
It's for this reason that I never even consider using Time Travel in my own projects. It's just a giant can of worms that I don't know how to deal with in an appropriate way. Same reason I don't write magic. Have no idea where to start.
>Fullmetal Alchemist did a great job with their "magic". Top Notch
Damn straight. This is something that he's actually guilty of. He's just absolutely ignorant of the catastrophic consequences of his actions. His outward sense of guilt and remorse (or lack thereof) speaks volumes.
There is so much hope in this page and knowing how it ends makes it a fucking travesty. I've never seen a character get propped up like this only to be knocked down to such a horrible degree. I thought they were doing this for Jean Grey during the All-New X-Men arc and I was wrong...so very wrong...that cunt gets a pass apparently.
Jacob Russell
You're just a Wally purist. Seething he was put in a shitty fan fiction. Don't take it out on Barry.