Tom King regrets how he wrote one page in Heroes in Crisis

I mean i would hope he regrets writing the whole thing

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He’s going to keep retconning stuff or Throw either the artist or Editor under the bus

This is what happens what a lot of the story is found to have been stolen and then changed.

Oh yeah, didn't he do interviews on how proud he was on the vision he had for the series and how he chose these characters and now he's saying these characters were impossed on him by editorial?

No way was that ever true. It'd force him to understand and acknowledge how horrifically unhealthy Sanctuary is.

Yep

just look at J.K. Rowling

I mean, it could have worked if part of the premise was that the Trinity are flawed despite their best intentions, so their Sanctuary solution was shit -- maybe this could have been addressed if they hadn't wasted 18 pages on spreads just to show "Heroes in Crisis" at the beginning of each comic.

Yea Forums will never stop complaining about HiC while at the same time will eat up and praise the shit Snyder is writing.

>unhealthy
Everyone who was going to therapy was getting better. Wally refused therapy and had a breakdown because of it.
Yea Forums has no grounds to speak up about psychology or trauma.

What board are you on? This place hates all Snyders.

I'm saying the reason that didn't happen is because King thinks Sanctuary is totally fine. The ending has a ton more people going to a completely unchanged Sanctuary and it's presented like it's a good thing.

In one of his earliest interviews he actually talks about how Sanctuary fails...

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>This place hates all Snyders.
Bullshit, just last week Yea Forums was jizzing itself over yet another Batman comic written by Snyder.

>getting better in an institution that not only isolates you but robs you of your identity....

So Rich johnston is responsible for putting the idea that the ending was rewritten into Yea Forums's head?

I imagine the people in a storytime of a Snyder comic were a bit more generous, but by and large he is despised on this board. Metal was absolutely reviled.

Anyone who has attended therapy or possesses common sense will tell you that a facility with no doctors created by people who are not doctors that allows/encourages you to wallow in your trauma by reliving it on a holodeck is not a healthy environment.

Bitch I'm a psychiatrist, and Sanctuary isn't just flawed, it IS a flaw. Writing that "the characters are getting better" doesn't mean Sanctuary does or could actually work, that's just the writer telling and not showing.

>isolates you
I see my therapist 1 on 1, does that mean my therapist is isolating me?

Neither does a pencil pusher-turned-funny pages writer like King.

No, because that involves you and another person.

>Metal was absolutely reviled.
Bullshit again, this board had multiple threads talking about Barbatos is the greatest DC villain and how vertigofags are on suicide watch.

Well sanctuary was their therapist providing one on one treatment.

>talking about Barbatos is the greatest DC villain
That never happened and I promise you won't link a single one from any archive

The facility is the doctor and the patients weren't wallowing but working through their trauma.

It's not a therapist or remotely equivalent to one.

It didn't rob them of their identity, that anonymous masked thing didn't even pop up.

>comparing a human being to retarded chatbot AIs

Just like he lied about rebirth and king getting kicked off Batman... oh wait.

He's nearly never wrong and mostly it comes down to believeing the spin rather than the reporting. Like rebirth not being a "reboot" when it absolutely was.

The only thing people liked about Metal was the New Age of Heroes series that spun out of it. Snyder is hated here, you seem to not like him much, what's the issue?

I love Zack's DC flicks.

And no I'm not an anomaly. You are if you think that shit.

A doctor can't he coerced into reaching up his rectum and pulling out videotape confessionals of every patient he's ever seen.

he doesn't regret joining an evil organization that disrupted economies and inadvertently killed thousands of innocent children all around the world

Why would he regret that? It fulfilled his macho fantasy

>The only thing people liked about Metal was the New Age of Heroes series that spun out of it.
That's the opposite though, Metal sold high with critical praise and New age of heroes died a year later with a lot of critics going "meh".

Are you from an alternate reality or something? That never happened

The backpedaling retcon. The Backon.

The only person who was getting better was Gnarrk. Everyone else either relieved their trauma through VR(Lagoon Boy getting shot with lasers continuously) or using the VR to live in escapist fantasies(Wally with his family)

>Metal was absolutely reviled.
It most certainly was not. Storytimes were filled with people saying how much they were enjoying the "dumb fun".

>Look for more about that Wally West comic as we approach San Diego Comic-Con…

rich fucking just tell us already

There are interviews from before the book came out where he said he got a list of characters from editorial. I heard it on a wordballoon podcast he did around batman 50

Maybe he comes from the universe where Mandela died in prison and it was the Berenstein Bears

Who said anything about critics, we're talking about this board. And Terrifics is still going.

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That definitely did happen, I remember clearly the hypercrisis fags gobbling up the dark multiverse bullshit.

I don't know what to tell you. All I remember is people bemoaning the edginess, batwank and uninspired nature of it all. I remember the Dark Knights being kind of received well, but the overall event is not thought of fondly now.

Is Heroes in Crisis Tom King's Secret Empire?

No because if it was, they would've done something to try and salvage Wally before the end.

Hopefully, so that way we can get the DC version of it's fallout of Coate's Captain America run. I love that book and to have Wally has a book as good would be appreciated.

I remember reception to Metal being mixed but every time I try to talk about how great it is I get yelled at

No, this was far worse and didn’t end with a handwave of everything’s fixed

i think Metal was good right up to when the other batmen were introduced. They were cool, and then nothing good happened from there.

Just train your brain offf bro and enjoy the dumb fun of Baby Darkseid and Starbro.

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I regret spending more than 5 minutes on his comics.

Barbatos isn't a Snyder creation you retard

Welcome to Yea Forums, where nothing is good.

Snyder IS better than King.

>Hal is the crotch

It was mixed. There lovers and haters but it really matters is if you took it seriously or not. I thought it was stupid fun. Hawkman fans loved it.

No because SE was a fiasco all over the news and pissed off everyone including comic shops. I’d say Catwoman calling off the wedding was a worse look for him.

kek

For better or worse? No.

SE handwaved almost everything wrong with it at the end, but SE was disliked by even retailers.

HiC on the other hand...

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>that time Marvel tried to force comic shops to dress their employees up as hydra agents

Cannot wait for Secret Empire to get reevaluated as the good series it was

>the mystery isn't the real plot
>even though most of the story is devoted to it
>Wally's loss is the real plot
>even though only the last few issues deal with it

It certainly reads better away from all the hype created by Spencer and Alonso, but it also has flaws.

I mean, if they had been brave enough, the story would have ended with Sam Wilson defeating Evil Steve, and Good Steve gone forever -- but they caved to bad press.

>tell wally it's ok to ask for help and that you're not alone
>have the 2nd to last panel of the comic be Wally completely isolated and not getting any of the help he needs

>I mean, if they had been brave enough, the story would have ended with Sam Wilson defeating Evil Steve, and Good Steve gone forever -- but they caved to bad press.
Are you actually saying they should have said "fuck the fans" and catered completely to their diversity gods?

So that dead Green Lantern is just forgotten huh

>but they caved to bad press.
No, they caved to Captain Sam's dwindling sales.
Had they actually used the event to establish Sam as the true Captain America they might have actually gotten better press.
As it was, the ending fell flat because everyone already knew Sam was going back to being the Falcon when the event was over.

the biggest flaw imo is that it goes from normal country to HYDRA winning and then there's like a time skip and we're in HYDRAmerica without showing how that effects most people. weirdly rushed parts. and Zemo v Bucky was wasted and a disappointment

johnston claims wally is getting a new book, so there is a small remote chance we may get a redemption book thatll try to make something of the shitpile

Sam Wilson as Captain America was not a bad idea. Spencer didn't know how to go all in tho -- He used Sam to go "Racism exists", but was too milquetoast to go beyond showing that yeah, racism exists.

>things were going bad
>then things started to change
>we had hope, hope that things could turn out right
>then the tide turned and things went bad again
Times six.

HIC is so shit that it makes Identity Crisis look better by comparison

HOW DID THEY FUCK THIS UP

Here's Tom King talking down directly to the readers for not liking Heroes in Crisis.

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>Sam Wilson as Captain America was not a bad idea.
In combination with the plethora of other diversity replacements happening at the same time, it was definitely a bad call. And the writers often found it suitable to strawman readers' opinions in the books, coming from the mouth of villains or asshole civilians. It was a tactless endeavor from start to finish.

I liked the suggestion from an user to instead have shirts for the resistance against Hydra. How anyone thought apparel for the stand-in for Nazis is beyond me.

>Here's Tom King talking down directly to the readers for not liking Heroes in Crisis.
I don't see it.

This is true. Identity Crisis, from a technical perspective, is way better than HiC.

It does not waste 18 pages across 9 issues to show "Heroes in Crisis", it doesn't use stupid time travel deus ex machina shit to solve one problem when it could be used to solve ALL the problems in the comic, it doesn't have pacing issues, it doesn't have padding issues.

For all the problems IC has, including misogyny in the form of rape/fridging, HiC ultimately is more offensive because it's insulting to mental illness and to therapy.

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>Even if you feel in your heart it's just made-up crap.
>And you just have to have dumb faith in dumb me being smarter than dumb you...

Yes yes I saw your thread before. I guess you’ll be posting this exact same thing in every relevant thread.

Thing is, the first arc of Sam Wilson Captain America was great. I love Hydra Ascendant. Also, Same Wilson's Al Ewing Avenger's book was good too. So, it is not like the idea was bad just most, not all but most, of the execution was bad.

But that was not Sam's fault -- that was all the other shitty replacement heroes fault.

Sam's problems, in his comic, is that ultimately did not go far enough.

That Titania did not want to punch Whor because of the patriarchy, that Mockingbird had a feminist agenda, that Riri is a psychopath and that Angela has to deal with unsolicited opinions on Israel is not Sam's fault (or Spencer's for that matter)

The reveal changes everything.

I don't see how it's directed at the readers tho.

>Identity Crisis, from a technical perspective, is way better than HiC.
Mhmmm...I disagree.

Crying Wally is the readers
Other Wally is TK, telling us to trust his dumb ass, because even if he's dumb, we're dumber than him, so that makes him smarter.

Readers are dumb for complaining about Heroes in Crisis being bad or not making sense, and Tom King knows best because he's smarter than those dumb readers.

You're wrong and also ugly.

Not saying IC is technically perfect, but has less technical flaws than HiC

Yes, Jean Loring somehow having a flamethrower when he only wanted to scare Sue Dibny was fucking dumb, but that's less dumb than having fucking Time Travel available to retreieve a lifeless wally clone to complete a loop instead of using that same Time Travel to prevent Wally FROM BECOMING A FUCKING MASS MURDERER!!

>Crying Wally is the readers
I don't know where you're getting this from.

Imagine, Yea Forums. Imagine not only wasting your money buying King's shitty comics, but getting enjoyment out of them. Then going online and defending King's butchering. Just Imagine.

>has less technical flaws than HiC
Nah, the problem isn't even that Sue has a flamethrower or that she could have just faked her own attack but how her very motivation just doesn't line up. She wants to get back with Ray but that's also what Ray wants. Then we got the investigation, like how Three medical geniuses couldn't discern the cause or death or how they went for the one guy who couldn't be the suspect or how that one guy knows that they're looking for him despite having no reason whatsoever for believing that.

user I feel like you're reading into this wayyyy too much .

>This scene takes place inside Lagoon's Boy's mind as the speed force hits him
Are you fucking kidding me? Was there even any indication of that in the comic itself?

>That page is not written well.
Just like every other page of HiC

Not necessarily but I did came to the same headcanon that the speed force explosion happened so fast that Lagoon boy was dead before he know it.

>But that was not Sam's fault -- that was all the other shitty replacement heroes fault.
It was Marvel's fault. Marvel is the publisher responsible for all these characters and intellectual properties.

cept they eventually find the microscopic footprints in Sue Dibny's brain and then realize someone with the ability to change sizes killed Sue and used the flamethrower to throw them off

in HiC... Bruce and Barry cannot even figure out that the Sanctuary victims died of electrocution -- and the murder mystery is never even resolved, Wally just confesses to the events in a video!

>cept they eventually find the microscopic footprints in Sue Dibny's brain and then realize someone with the ability to change sizes killed Sue and used the flamethrower to throw them off
They should've realized that the body was burned after death, if you're burning to death than you inhale smoke.
But also flamethrowers would leave accelerants and evidence like that so right off the bat they should've been able to cross Dr.Light off the suspect list.

Sure, IC was not perfect when it came to evidence and such -- but HiC is much worse. At least IC solved the mystery. HiC did not.

It's funny how DC's greatest threat (business-wise) isn't Marvel, but DC itself. And the same applies to Marvel.

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I'm not a fan of HiC but I'm gonna say this: IC did not make sense but HiC did because the murder mysteries did not make sense. In IC it doesn't make sense for Jean Loring to be the killer nor did it make sense why they would suspect Dr.Light but also it wouldn't sense for the rumored first draft of the killer being Ray palmer. With HiC the murder mystery didn't make sense because Wally was dead and he staged the scene knowing what Barry would look for.

Would not be the first time DC changes a story after readers guesses the secret identity of the bad guy

That doesn't make any sense.

FPBP

You know Tom, if you have to explain it, it's no good.
Jokes, stories, sex, etc., if you need to clear things up, you did it wrong.

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I'm looking at the whodunit aspect and honestly what I'm coming from that HiC just might IC done right.
Jean's motivation doesn't make sense even accounting in the idea that she's still schizoaffective from those silver age stories wheres a mental breakdown from extreme gaslighting or alien intervention.
Wally's motivation makes sense especially because he's having a mental breakdown.

>Wally's motivation makes sense

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Mental breakdowns don't coincide with highly elaborate plots to falsify forensics, frame others, or a plan of action that relies on time travel.

This tweet of his did not age well.

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Hahahaha!

I guess the Batman/Catwoman series is going to be almost three years running, then.

Was it HiC that finally made DC remove him from Batman or was it something else?

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HiC underperformed the main Batman comic, which itself was underperforming vis a vis Snyder's run.

TK's style is too decompressed and with DC's plans to go back to monthly, his run would be unbearable -- I mean, Knightmares was already bad in a bi-monthly schedule (and the price happened in the middle of it), now imagine that as a monthly ongoing instead?

Yup.
Honestly, the other comics should follow that example.

wait so the Speed Force gave him a dying vision.. or something?

No, Wally murdered the shit out of Lagoon Boy and King is backpedaling hard.

Wait, what.
So according to King Wally didn't kill anyone at all and it was all the speed force?
What the fuck, are we going to get another trail of the Flash or something

Shut the fuck up King.

Did he sign an NDA that prevents him from saying "I rewrote the culprit at the last moment"? Or is it just saving face?

So who killed Lagoon Boy?

the speedforce did

The speed force did it independently of Wally against his will, I guess.
Would make more sense then it suddenly being able to one hit KO invincible dudes

Wow. That is a really weak bullshit answer. For someone who tells lies for a living, you'd think he could come up with a better lie.

>operators
Superheroes aren't fucking government agents, for fucks sake.

>someone who tells lies for a living
Actually, that's no longer true. It's been a while since he worked for the CIA.

The worst part of that mindset in this case is that it's the compete opposite of Wally!!

People are theorizing that he got kicked off because of sales/controversy.

But now I don't think he was kicked off. He's just focusing on the New Gods script and cut down his Bat run.

Motherfucker is just failing upwards.

Dude is just trying to backpedal on how he changed the Sanctuary AI killing Lagoon Boy into Wally killing him, but the book with the AI killing Lagoon Boy was already out.

Its just Armageddon 2001 again, but with King coming up with horseshit headcanon.

Yeah they would, panic mode can make you do crazy things. At the moment Wally comes up with a plan that to him sounds perfectly logical.

The speed force explosion killed him before he even knew what happened and his brain is still playing catchup.

Hey, remember when DC made Hawk the Monarch because everyone guessed it was gonna be Captain Atom?

Don't you have any shame?

But the killer is still Wally!! If they changed it they fucked up

He can't actually think that right?

What kind of brainlet- no this is bait. He gets up on the next page. Lagoon Boy is alive at the end of the issue.

>I just accidentally killed my friends
>Should I just call someone or turn myself in?
>I got it! I'm going to mutilate their corpses to frame someone else and then take five days to reveal this information and then kill myself!

Ryan can be endearing with how much of a fan he is, but between earnestly thinking this and thinking GoT season 8 is the greatest... I don't know what to think

1/4.

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2/4.

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3/4.

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Where does Lagoon's Boy gets up?

4/4.

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Too bad. I'm gonna get on Flash and create a new speedster villain, then reveal that he's not actually a speedster villain but instead has the power of Speed Force DEATHSPLOSION! Every issue is him Speed Force Deathsploding large crowds of people and getting caught, only for it actually turn out that they're catching time travel clones.

>that's just the writer telling and not showing.

Yea that's sort of how King works. Notice his tweeting about plot holes for a couple weeks after.

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Surely you can prove this

didn't Hawk become Extant and Captain Atom become Monarch eventually?

I prefer King telling us, because his showing usually ends with Harley Quinn escaping Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman while on foot, or some other impossibility.

Sounds almost as good as my idea for a new flash villian back when wally was flash. It appeared he was a murderous speedster then revealed to be an entity made from all the "evil speedsters" contaminating the speed force. This contaminaton creating a semi sententient "speed force wraith" ultimately be revealed to be a man who fused mirror master tech and trickster tech in order to dwstroy the flash legacy because when barry saved him as a teen barry accidently paralyzed him

And because he embarrass himself that way.

That was so bad, even if Superman had to go stop Barry, Batman and Wonder Woman should have been able to stop Harley.

How could the editors let that go through? There's being a superstar writer™ and incompetent, but what King wrote is a mistake not even casuals would make.

He got Mark Doyle removed as his editor...

I know, but again, superstar status and superiors' incompetence only goes so far. This is like if Disney allowed Mickey to slap Minnie, it is bloody verbotten by unwritten law.

Are you really surprised about that? So called superstar comic writers usually get the least amount of editorial unless it's a character being killed. When you hit 'A rank' in cape comics at the Big 2 then people stop saying no to your dumb ideas because your name sells (apparently).

HiC is a cluster fuck. Was there just a left over piece of speed force lightning?

Frank Miller implied Superman raped Wonder Woman, and DC published that because his name sells. Just so you can get some perspective.

I still harbour delusions that the world runs on logic and sense.

Some aspects of the world but Big 2 hasn't run on that in years.

In ASBaR or DKSA? Because both were batshit insane and not part of the mainstream universe.

In both, yes. Them being insane and not part of the mainstream universe doesn't stop it from being comparable to Mickey slapping Minnie around. DC still published a comic that implies their biggest hero raped their biggest heroine and that it was a good thing.

Cuh-razy things like suddenly learning super advanced computer science to be able to hack an AI made by the second smartest man on the planet.

So crazy!

Buddy do you want to talk about what Marvel allowed to have printed? Because both publishers have let some crazy shit come out. Most of them are AUs or immediately retconned.

>a week, nine days
Just say two weeks and two days like a fucking human.

That's pretty normal for a Flash.

The Flash is the toyota corolla of superheroes. It will take you from point A to point B.

Need some pseudoscience? The Flash can use the speed force and come up with shit. Problem is, it's super lazy writing and you can tell right away when it's bad.

He's fucking lying through his teeth. It's obvious this was retconned into Wally killing everyone by accident. If it was all in Lagoonboys mind it would have been a laser. Tom is such a piece of shit

>That page is not written well

Now we just got to get him to slowly admit that for every page.

>they would've done something to try and salvage Wally before the end
They did. They changed the murders to accidental manslaughter

The time loop is actually a metaphor for a downward spiral.

No it isn't. Unless he went and studied advanced AI and super science at super speeds before going to hack it but you'd think years of research and understanding would've given him time to rethink hacking the AI in the first place.

It's clearly this

>Lb's entire crisis stems from a big blue beam going through him
>Murdered again by a big blue beam
>Audience would be totally cool with just assuming it's just what he's imagining
>"Aw geez, that would give away the game if it's a big blue beam. I'll make it a pole!"
>Gets called out
>"lol oops"

I'll give this motherfucker a reason to be traumatized

It was built by Batman. Considering Tower of Babel and Brother Eye, the whole thing was probably sync'able to Bluetooth and the admin privileges were locked behind a basic login-in. Username and password both "bat1."

If I remember right, it’s because DC kept asking Miller to come back to write stories, he’d refuse and then he’d offer him a million dollars and he’d shit a story like TDKSA out.

lol fag

Speed force animated a piece of wood and threw it into Lagoon Boy?

i remember when issue 1 came out and people were speculating that HiC was going to be another brother eye situation with an evil AI.
Oh how i wish they were right.

Telling lies for a living is literally a fiction writer's job, no?

So at this point they might as well label the Speed Force another branch of magic in the DCU. It does pretty much anything the user can imagine without any science limits. And it can only be countered by other speed force users.

It can so far
>Create matter out of pure speed
>control time
>allows time travel
>allows control over molecules
>control speed of other people and objects
>can instantly kill ignoring all defenses
>can possess and animate random objects
>create illusions

Flash is just a damn speed wizard with all the weird an unexplainable series of godlike powers over all of nature like any other magic user.

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>Its just Armageddon 2001 again, but with King coming up with horseshit headcanon.

The funny thing about A2001 is that it was pre-internet, and they still changed the story.

>Be me, with my other stupid teenage friends.
>At the comic shop, they gave away a little post card with the list of all the annuals involved with the story.
>Friends and I see the last issue before Armageddon 2001 #2 is the JLE annual.
>"Hmmm," we think to ourselves, "Waverider wouldn't keep looking after he found Monarch, right? So it has to be someone on the JLE."
>We knew Captain Atom just had his book cancelled.
>Bingo.
I always laugh when he read stuff about that storyline and they'll say "The storyline was changed because the ending was leaked" - it didn't need to be leaked because it was so obvious. The change made the story worse because the chose the absolutely one person that could not have been Monarch.

And HiC seems to be more of the same years later. Remember the Puddlers? What about the tapes sent to Lois? Wally somehow gained new abilities to...convert data to usb sticks from the ether using the speed force?

And Booster is pretty much retarded under TK's writing. At least Harley got revenge for being framed.

And did the two Wallys go to the 25th century to clone older Wally (who was five days older) and then...kill the clone?

speed force was a mistake

Do you want to sum up Tom King's stories at DC in one sentence?
>"A complete waste of time."

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Not to mention it was Remender who made Sam Wilson into Cap and when he did that no one was bitching. It wasn't until Spencer took over and after Standoff and when Whor, Riri, etc... where introduced that people started bitching.

Spencer was hated by both SJWs and the people who were against SJWs. He got called a Nazi, an SJW, etc... all sorts of shit by both sides, and it got specially crazy when people found out his political past. He also said he didn't like conservatives but also acknowledged John Walker as one of his favorite characters and wrote him as having conservative values and was respectful towards him.

It was just unfortunate that he did Secret Empire and the way Marvel promoted that.

Spencer wanted to gentrify Cincinatti, that's a big yikes. If I recall correctly, he also worked for John McCain back in 2004.

I think the reason why he was hated by both sides is because no one likes someone that waffles between being a neocon and a neoliberal.

There is nothing conflicting about being a neocon and a neoliberal.

Speed force never needed to be anything more than explanation for why he is fast and why he does not burst into flames from friction. Nothing else.

I have no idea why the fuck later writers decided to make all speedsters gods of fast that can do literally anything with go fast.

Silver Age Flash basically ran on GOES FAST bullshit.

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>the speedforce
Motherfucker, silver age Flash didnt even have that much of an explanation. He had control of every molecule of his body, thats as much as you would get. Since i have control of yadda yadda, i can even turn into shit.

metal pissed me off with this shit too
>spend the entire issue pumping hero up
>things look good, well earned victory for good guy
>some bullshit lets bad guy win
>off panel sometimes
>happens over and over till everyone knew they'd have to do the same bullshit ass pull for the good guys at the end
>exact thing happens
the issue with hal in particular pissed everyone off in the storytime with that shit

I wonder why they started course correcting the movies lol

In that case Wally would have been replaced by a simulacrum of the real, in character Wally West. If you call that salvaging him...

Not really

Regrets?
He's had a few.

Not only this. Think about the decade leading to it.
Brubaker retconned the shit out of Cap and Bucky's past, then killed off Cap for 2 years and had Bucky cosplaying him, while other hacks like bendis kept teasing his return.
Then he comes back, but is still not Cap again.
Then, when he's finally back, he soon gets turned old and it's Sam's time to cosplay. Then he's back, but lol no, kills off Jack Flagg and is Hydra and now "has been all along". And in the end, that doesn't even get reversed.

tl;dr He had been Cap for maybe half of the decade if that much. Being a Cap fan has been suffering for a long-ass time.

>He's nearly never wrong

You must be new if you think this.

>not creating the DEATHSPLOSION!force instead
shiggy

he listed some rights
now you list the unending stream of wrongs.
c'mon just 2 more than he did.

Hulk save day again.
Hulk always have to save day. Hulk tired.

And I would guess that bringing Steve as Cap back at all was because MCU was doing so well that they tried to milk that, unfortunatly Marvel comic writers are dumbasses who didn't get why people liked the movieCap.

Did Metal have a lot of narration? I was mainly referring to Spencer's repetitive monologues in ever issue.
It's like Tynion was writing it.

So If It all was in his mind is Red Devil still alive?

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Well, his whole point is DC actually published that shit, is right.

>did Wally kill Lagoon Boy?
>Absolutely not. Wally just used the speed force to kill him, doesn't count

What's worse, movie Cap didn't even get a lot of opportunities to shine too, and they effectively give him an ending. The only movie that effectively showed him properly as a leader was Avengers 2, that gets tons of hate.

not really iirc, I was thinking about the actual plot in metal. Good guys got shat on left and right which is one thing but they'd have these nice bits where things look up but it just flip flops back to barbatos' favor again and again, almost immediately every time.
Really frustrating.

>did john wilkes booth kill lincoln?
>no a small piece of metal did

>did the planes kill King Kong?
>nah, the abrupt encounter with the ground at the end of his fall did

>did the planes kill King Kong?
Oh, no, it wasn't the airplanes. It was Beauty that killed the beast!

>and when he did that no one was bitching

Oh there was plenty of bitching about making Sam be cap, despite being a long time partner. It got way worse when Sam covered political issues, because nothing triggers the right wingers more than politics in comics that they disagree with, even when the story still has supervillains doing blatantly evil shit like shooting people crossing the border, or super rent-a-cops beating up minorities because it's a gentrification scheme to drive minorities out.

Pretty sure I once read it as his molecules were sped up and now vibrate faster than normal. Why he could control them was not mentioned.

>And in the end, that doesn't even get reversed.
This still pisses me off so much. RealCap was left brainwashed as being HydraCap, and then unceremoniously killed off in Coates' Cap.

They fucking killed off Captain America, and are propping up a fake construct as Captain America now. Marvel are so fucking stupid it boggles the mind.

>and then unceremoniously killed off in Coates' Cap
WTF that also happened now?!

Selene and Lukin’s wife get him out of prison. Them Selene kills him.

I dropped the book at that point, but it’s probably to frame fake-Cap for Hydra-Cap’s actions.

>“Tom King reveals that YOU, the reader, was mentally ill all along”

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I may have taken Wellbutrin and Celexa a couple years ago, but I can safely say I've never waterboarded a 12yo boy in the basement of an Iraqi government office building for 16 hours straight.

King probably doesn't actually think Sanctuary is fine, but he not only thinks that's how psychiatric facilities work - most crazies who refuse to get help usually demonize therapists to justify their decision - he's also too incompetent of a writer to put together a coherent conclusion to the exploration of the concept.
For fucks sake the final issue was resolved with the words "Bros before heroes". Maybe it's some edgy nihilism message where despite being a failed system people will still use Sanctuary, maybe it's some faux deep message about living with yourself. Either way, Tom King doesn't have the chops to pull it off. But I doubt he thinks Sanctuary, or any kind of therapy works, or he would've gotten some by now.

Sounds like the guy is a rare case of the American Tory-democrat.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-nation_conservatism

Not yet you haven’t you sick son of a bitch

Is...is that Gunfire? Wow.

Indeed

Yeah, they really went all out in finding obscure D-listers to unceremoniously kill for a garbage story

But hey!

If speed force shenanigans killed them, they could be brought back through additional speed force shenanigans!

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Wow that's shitty. Gunfire had good potential and a cool ability despite being part of a giant gimmick event. We need more capebook characters with that superpower who isn't Gambit.

Technically yes, but time travel to save people = bad and changes continuity apparently, unlike harmless time travel by villains to kill innocents.
You don't want Nu52 again, do you, user?

No, but if they were killed, bare with me and my comic book science logic, by pure speed force energy, their essence might be salvaged later on.

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Post a pic because I don’t believe you

Well we keep reading this shit so maybe it's true

Something tells me he has a bit too much HiC comics and GoT funko-pops lying around in his shop

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Tom King gave us all PTSD.

Don’t look now, but Viz is attempting to poach talent for Shueisha.

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>And no I'm not an anomaly.
What's wrong, redditor gonna cry?

>hypercrisis fags
They tend to have the taste and cognitive skill of conspiracy theorists

I mean, technically almost everyone is a construct post-Secret Wars, it makes no difference.

Are you retarded?

But Snyder is just as bad. He, Bendis, and King are going to collectively re-ruin DC.

would batman trust a place like that? seems like a great way to get brainwashed or something.

*and DilDio

I peronally liked how they dropped all the years of metaphysical ancient Bat-God nonsnese built up up by that hack Morison over the years and just simplified him into a super evil alt universe version of Bruce who likes metal music, and wants to take over the world. Morison forgets he's writing comics and overcomplicates things. Moustache twirling Saturday morning cartoon villains have way more depth. Personally I wish Snyder made the plot about Barbatos just robbing a bank or something.

he could try to escape in a Barbatos-Copter or something

You know I once tried to count how many robot batsuits Bruce wore under Snyder's watch. Lost count somewhere around ten. And keep in mind I only loosely followed Snyder's run, and didn't even read his All Star Batman. Laziest writing ever. "How will Batman think his way out of this one? Find out next time on- oh wait, he just punched his way out with yet another fucking robot-suit."

Fucking Tony Stark is more creative with his solutions to problems.

Cute. I get it. You guys are trying to shit on King hard in a very weak attempt to shield King from criticisms.

Snyder's Batman only ever wore 4 different suits. The big one from the Court of Owls, the Justice League buster one from Endgame, the current one from Justice League run, and one that was basically an homage to Batman Beyond.

I would not even be surprised. But if drawn by capullo it would just be a cluster fuck of spikes and blades like Batman's robo-suits.

>shield King from criticisms
It would take another Bat-Armor. A really good one.

the entire series was garbage

Barbatos isn't an alt-universe Batmen, though. Barbatos is the "dragon" with the job of eating the failed universes inside the "forge", which is the dark multiverse.

what exactly is Heroes in Crisis? I haven't read comics in a while and only heard that this was more stupid shock value killings
from what I pieced together
>superhero super therapy house
>Wally is there
>Wally flips and the speed force kills everyone?
>he tries to pin it on others and hide what he did
is that about right? what happened to King? I thought people where excited when they first put him on Batman?

>In the earliest days of existence, before the Multiverse became reality, a spark of potential created matter and anti-matter. After that, two siblings tasked with monitoring creation came to be. Along with them, though, came a third being known as the World Forger. Unlike the others, it was set to watch over creations that would exist in the future. The World Forger made its home in the Forge of Worlds, a hidden place inside the sea of possibility that would later be renamed the Dark Multiverse. For eons, he created universes based on the hopes and fears of every living thing. While the most stable universes became part of the main Multiverse, The World Forger created a dragon to consume the unstable worlds so their energy could return to the Forge and be used anew. The name of that dragon was Barbatos. Eventually, Barbatos' lust for destruction led him to kill his master and steadily corrupt the Forge of Worlds. Because he was no longer doing his job, the unstable worlds persisted beyond their time and became part of the Dark Multiverse.
And before that it was simple a weapon, the Hyper-Adapter, used by Darkseid. I'm still waiting on Snyder to explain that.

Yeah, that's it. King sucks, he makes every character he writes have depression and he's like Bendis sometimes with panelling/dialogue.

>I thought people where excited when they first put him on Batman?
Yeah, people claimed his Vision run at Marvel was good.
Guess you got the basics.

Oh no, I'm retarded. I thought this was from the part where LG was killing himself.

King was like Bendis in that he had a novel take on writing capes, and like Bendis that's the only way he's able to write.

>Gunfire had good potential
You need to quit lying to yourself.

>I peronally liked how they dropped all the years of metaphysical ancient Bat-God nonsnese built up
That's the exact opposite of what happened though. If anything Snyder just added more, dumber metaphysical Batgod antics.

He already threw Clay Mann under the bus over the Poison Ivy cover

Tom King is a fucking coward and I jave no idea how anyone works with him when at the first sign of social media outrage he will throw anyone he can under the bus

>He already threw Clay Mann under the bus over the Poison Ivy cover
It was a good cover. Fuck anyone that doesn't like it.

i only knew ivy was supposedly dead from that, we only ever got her confessional, but never focus ON her, it was so fucking weird.

That was only in Metal though.

Metal is what we're talking about.

t. Greg Weisman

>He already threw Clay Mann under the bus over the Poison Ivy cover
>Tom King is a fucking coward and I jave no idea how anyone works with him when at the first sign of social media outrage he will throw anyone he can under the bus

He is a gucking coward for someone that likes to say he is a ex-CIA agent
now I realy think he was more of a pencil pusher

next he his going to tell how sanctuary didn´t have any toilets and a jewish janitor called Goldstein

Well spies are cowards, it's an inherently cowardly profession.

I bet he mains rogue and ganks lowbies like a faggot, too.

No, there aren’t.

The vast majority of the CIA are paper pushers. "CIA agent" is an impressive title to very boring and hands-off job.

>Wally refused therapy and had a breakdown because of it.
Bullshit, he was doing the same "talking to an AI in the holodec" "therapy" bullshit that everyone else was. He still exploded and spread a bunch of private videos to the media.

that he already doesn't

How else do you think we captured Saddam Hussein?
Didn't you see Zero Dark Thirty?

Again, no.

Dumbass

>was doing the same "talking to an AI in the holodec" "therapy" bullshit that everyone else was.
No he wasn't.

Snyder already explained it. The cults were worshipping Snyder's Barbatos all along. But they never made any actual contact. They were just a bunch of nutters.

Then the Hyper-Adaptor appears, and they think its Barbatos, so they give it the name.

So Snyder is retconning Morrison.

Shut up, TK

Tool.

Stop being such a retard, mate.

None of this bullshit happened.

Yeah, ok sure.

Yeah, pretty much. Although it doesn't invalidate anything that happens in Morrison's run, so its less retconning and more revealing the truth of the situation?