DC isn’t looking so good

It's almost like all the people they brought in with Rebirth through Wally's return and a promise of a return to "hope" in storytelling rather than needless edge are turned off by the rampant bleak edginess of DC's current output.

That they’re publishing double the number of comics DC is.

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Nothing new.

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Doom Patrol hasn't been renewed. in fact other than Fuck Batman season 2 and Stargirl there hasn't been a single show announcement for the sevice

>Don’t worry Johns the comics are in good han-AHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA!

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because marvel has books with 9000 variant covers and events that cross over with all the major titles and their books cost more than DCs and Marvel has more trade paperbacks.

>I’m just looking to better understand why this is happening.
Bendis and King are driving Superman and Batman, respectively, into the fucking ground, and those are DC's two big money makers. Combine that with their big event comic, Heroes in Crisis, being one of their all-time fucking worst events and their big prestige much hyped limited series, Doomsday Clock, is in perpetual delay, and what you're left with is DC's money makes (Superman, Batman, and events) falling flat.

Meanwhile, Marvel's new EiC, Akira Yoshida, has been trying (how succesful he's been at it is debatable) to fix a lot of the mistakes of the Alonso-era and that has gotten Marvel a lot of good will back.

So you've got DC doing poorly while Marvel is doing well, and since this is percentage-based, the better one does, the worse it looks for the other. If Marvel was also doing poorly, then DC would look like it's doing comparatively better. Basically, Marvel is currently going through its "Rebirth" boom while DC is actively trying to throw away any and all interest they got from Rebirth.

But the late 00s were an extremely bad time for DC sales-wise. There was a period where Batman was losing to Fantastic Four.

>Also what about the whole "Image will get bigger than DC" meme? The difference beetwen the 2 is bigger than ever
That was Kirkman back when Walking Dead was getting huge.

DC cuts back costs by printing less books. Marvel cuts back costs by printing on cheaper paper, charging more for each book, hiring cheaper creators and lying about digital sales.

>marvel has books with 9000 variant covers
DC does variant covers too, and did even more a few years back.

>and events that cross over with all the major titles and their books
True, but even in months without an event, Marvel still sells more.

>cost more than DCs
Marvel also sells more books per month

>and Marvel has more trade paperbacks.
Really? I thought that DC did better in the graphic novel departmene because it has more "classic" stories.

>Really? I thought that DC did better in the graphic novel departmene because it has more "classic" stories.
DC imploded hugely in the last two years. They've dropped to 8th place, behind Image and Marvel.
It helps that Marvel had a huge Infinity Gauntlet reprint in 2018

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"Rebirth" confused the bookstore market and they stopped ordering new books and New 52 volumes as well.
In 2018, the volume 1 of New 52 Harley Quinn (from 2011) outsold the volume 1 of Rebirth Harley Quinn from 2017.
Rebirth killed all trade sales.

>worst year since 2005
that's a big yikes

DC doesn't pay any top creators at all either bruh

>DC goes under due to Identity Crisis
>many years later they go down the shitter again due to an Identity Crisis rip off

>Archie

Ha. Serves em right.

It’s not fair we were the DChads! It was our job to slay all the pussy I want my pussy

Marvel isn't looking too good either, it's getting crushed by Manga.

Grant Morrison is worthy a hundred Donny Cates.

We need him back. He saved DC once he can do it again.

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Netflix has international distribution rights to DC shows. That probably offsets a lot of the shows costs.

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That was in the past.

Now Marvel has Donny Cates and Hickman is back for more "DOOM BECOMES OMNIPOTENT OMG" stories, and boy oh boy, I am ready to spend my money on them.

Marvel is back, baby!!!

Big Dick Hickman cost a pretty penny

Imagine paying big money just so a guy can rewrite "...and Doctor Doom becomes omnipotent" multiple times.

Marvel is lucky that their fans eat that shit up.

>and lying about digital sales.
How do we know if they're doing that?

And there was a time Aquaman outsold everything from Marvel.

He unironically crashed DC. Numbers are there to back it up.

Not surprising when one company prints more than double the issues to flood the shelves with trash. DC may sell less, but they probably put out just as many good comics as Marvel a month. Marvel just pads their sales with shit.

whats with the crazy spike in 09

Watchmen movie released

Show respect

>behind Image and Marvel.
Yikes. 2014-2016 they were doing as much as the two combined.

>t. Didio

Stop arguing facts, you autistic manchild.

Rebirth was one of the biggest comics of the year and DC saw unprecedented growth to the point where they were making imprints left and right and taking swipes at Marvel for once. It also helped that Marvel was shitting the bed at the time. It got so bad that Marvel had to cut down on the number of ongoings closer to DC's number. Humphries said that Johns sat down with him and they went over what he was going to do for Green Lanterns. Then Johns went to Hollywood and didn't write as much and Didio resumed control while Cebulski took over from Alonso stepping down and now we're back to the way things were.

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crazy how Moore is still the most profitable creator for DC besides maybe Miller after all these years

Will things fix itself in time?

Idiot, Rebirth launched at the end of 2017. 2018 was full on Rebirth and the sales were shit, they couldn't pull ahead of Marvel save for one or two months where they went 0.5% over despite, as you said, marvel shitting the bed hard. Also, trade sales went right in the toilet. Numbers.are.fucking.there. Rebirth was just Marvel tactics of flooding the market with overshipping and relaunching everything and giving each title TWO 1#s.
Taking pathetic swipes at Marvel is a win now? Acting like petty manchildren is a win?

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Marvel fixed most of its problems and DC is back to being edgy and doing what they think is working. Things are back to the way they usually were. The sad thing is that Johns is too useful for WB with his work on the shows and movies. His comic work is minimal these days and Didio is set in his ways.

Not likely, Rebirth did irreparable damage.

>His comic work is minimal these days
>Doomsday Clock, Three Jokers and Shazam
>the most things he's written in almost 10 years
>minimal these days

Which was better; New 52 or Rebirth? Both for DC's sales and for enjoyment

For real? Man Aquachad surprises me all the damn time!

What are all the current good DC comics? What are all the good current good Marvel comics? Here's a tip... Marvel wins by a landslide.

You got that ass backwards since Marvel has 0.

Name three good current Marvel comics.

>rebirth started in may 2016
>metal is one of the best selling events of recent memory, secret empire being one of the worst and only axis sold worse
>when issues do come out doomsday clock is the top spot
>months of threads with dc dominating the sales and it became a meme that it was only temporary
>hope didio user always there to point things out
>marvel had to constantly do relaunches and events just to even be in the top 10
It was a bloodbath. It wasn't even close. Marvel still made more money but they sold almost twice as many comics. There were the infamous ongoings that became miniseries. The debacle of Secret Empire being so bad that even Disney had to step in. The various misfires of Alonso and the constant parade of gimmicks they tried to use to stay relevant. All this stuff has been documented and there were dozens of threads for everything. This is why Alonso stepped down. This is why DC had their Marvel knock offs to directly compete with them. We've also talked about the forced shipping and comic shops getting dozens of issues they never wanted, some getting zero comics just to avoid having to pay shipping for stuff they immediately threw in the dollar bin.

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Rebirth easily for sales. New 52 had a strong start but it kind of died down after a while and then Convergence and DCYou almost ruined them. As for enjoyment it's split. New 52 is more friendlier to new readers and takes more chances and switches things up which is what a lot of fans liked. Rebirth was a return to what people were most comfortable and had solid titles but many anons found it boring in comparison.

>Marvel still made more money
Case closed.

This. Marvel is finished.

i enjoyed rebirth action comics and justice league. i also enjoyed n52 batman and justice league, but i like DC Rebirth/Dc Universe just a little bit more.

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Yes but they spent more money to do it. A lot of their comics were in cancellation range and many others were barely above it.

See:

>Yes but they spent more money to do it
That's just your assumption, a wrong one considering the high number of exclusive talents they had and the fact that Marvel in general pays artists and writers less.
>A lot of their comics were in cancellation range and many others were barely above it.
DC was like this too, tht's why they failed to pull ahead, trash like Cyborg or Superwoman being kept alive far far longer than anyone wanted, they were top heavy at the time, easily overtaking the top 10 but if you looked at the top 25, Marvel had more titles.

At higher costs, retardon. Amd because Marvel plays the market.

Marvel has launched 200 new comics since 2016. Of those 200, fewer than 30 made it past 12 issues.

>At higher costs
citation needed.

its not even a competition. no matter how superior current dc stories are to current marvel stories, marvel still has the big title like star wars and ASM that will always sell

What can we do to change this? This has to end.

> Marvel offered large overships of free copies on several titles: you can see the wide disparity between the unit sales rankings and the dollar sales rankings for titles including Hawkeye, Gamora, Guardians of the Galaxy, Rocket Raccoon, Nova, Mighty Captain Marvel, Star-Lord, and others. Overships do not impact dollar market share, which is the more meaningful category; you can get an idea of the biggest earners for the month by sorting by dollar rank.
comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-12.html

Think about this. They have been doing this for several months for a lot of their titles and they aren't making any money off of them.

Cates sucks and still his books are far better than aby other DC book that is getting published right now.

That must be the reason batfags always beg him to write Batman on twitter, poor souls.

Something tells me that DC will be back in May. But honestly I hope DC do go under because then maybe other characters besides Batman will get amazing stories.

Currently the focus at DC is Batman, Batman, Batman and sometimes Superman and the Justice League.

If DC goes under secondary characters likehawkman, the Flash, Cyborg and Green Lantern would be sold to other companies like IDW, Boom! and Image!

Once they are sold these companies will make an effort to get their money's worth by attempting to make amazing stories and maybe even adaptations to other media like TV and movies.

Just image if Cyborg was sold to IDW. He would interact with the Transformers in comics and maybe even in the movies

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It ends by itself.

Once, X-Men was a powerhouse. Now an X-Men event sells in the 30k. Star Wars sold a million 5 years ago. It is now selling 50k. Spider-Man should be up there with Batman in the 100k, but rarely passes 60k, etc.

>Something tells me that DC will be back in May.
>today is May 31st
what did you mean by this

>t. Someone who doesn't know how LCS works

But keep bitching about DC losing.

They're owned by WB and make ridiculous money for them in other media. No way in hell DC is going anywhere. DC and Marvel are worth far more for their IP compared to whatever sales their comics have.

They'll swing back up, they have Last Knight and White Knight 2.

>that headline

High profile journalism right there, totally not one sided.
Also someone should tell him those sales are the digital ones only.

>Cates sucks and still his books are far better than aby other DC book that is getting published right now.
You wish, CosmicGhostRiderFag.

He means that we don't have the numbers for May. Retard.

>no counter argoument
Don't forget to suck his cock and beg him to write batman.

I liked Superwoman :((

There is always a bad time for DC. Show me an extensive period of time where DC outsold Marvel.

There isn't. Marvel is king. And this is not company wars, no matter how much you want to push this meme (I'm a DCfag myself, but yeah, keep saying I'm not). Marvel is just more popular. Always has been, way before the movies. They're an efficient zombie-creating machine that will buy whatever they put out.

Teach me. How do LCS work?

>But honestly I hope DC do go under because then maybe other characters besides Batman will get amazing stories.
how would the company going under = more characters being used? Batman is pushed because everything else flops

>They're an efficient zombie-creating machine that will buy whatever they put out.
True. Writers like Cates and Zdarsky would not become "the best writers alive" they are if they were on DC instead of Marvel.

Marvel has always been the publisher of the fanatic ones screaming "MAKE MINE MARVEL". The rabidness of their fans is what allows them to have lower standards in their output.

At Marvel, "KNULL, THE GOD OF VENOM" is compared to Watchmen. At DC, shit like that wouldn't get any attention.

But soon we will.

>Rebirth easily for sales
not in the bookstore market. Rebirth killed the bookstore sales

DC did this to themselves, they simply decided to sell less books, they though like fools Morrison's GL book would outsell Jess and Baz and Hal n Pals and this goes on across the entire line.

once Batman ships to once a month Image will finally overtake DC.

>once Batman ships to once a month Image will finally overtake DC.
You think Batman once a month will bring DC under 8% of the market?

I'm not saying I don't believe you but let's take a look at some sources.

>The blockbuster movie still hasn’t had any noticeable affect on single issue sales, though there was a spike in interest in the first two Rebirth trades through Amazon and the bookstore market.
comicsbeat.com/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-june-2017-forging-ahead/

>Sales aren't just up in terms of individual issues, either; DiDio said that the bookstore market is also expanding. "We can talk about periodical sales, but if you want to know where the real growth is right now, it's in the mass market — the collections, the graphic novels. We see those sales expanding on a regular basis."
hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/dcs-rebirth-brings-massive-sales-913231

yeah, sources, like Bookscan 2018, not 2017
comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-274-looking-at-bookscan-for-2018/

>Now, there’s no doubt that the rebranding from “New 52” to “Rebirth” simply did not work in the mid-term – it does not appear that the “civilian” audience understood why continuity was being “reset” again so quickly. And while the “Rebirth” GN numbers were OK to start, they very very quickly bombed out. Here’s an example: the first “Rebirth” “Harley Quinn” launched at 13k in 2017. In 2018, it sold just 1818 copies. Kind of shockingly, v1 of the “New 52” “Harley” outsold it at 1894 copies. You can see this over and over again down the line: “Rebirth” “Batman” v1 sold 24k in 2017, and just over 5600 copies in 2018. “Nightwing” v1 sold 12k in 2017, down to 3k in 2018. In fact, not a single “Rebirth” branded book passes 10k in 2018, and it completely slaughtered the sales of the “New 52” editions as well.
>

Marvel fags have more in common with Islamic terrorists then they do with the rest of the comic community.

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>2018
Well there's your problem.

>#8 is “Batman: Year One” at just under 10k – it’s dropped from about 11k; #10 is v4 of the “Rebirth” “Batman” (“The War of Jokes & Riddles”), and fallen out of the Top 10 at #11 is Frank Miller’s “Batman: The Dark Knight Returns” with under 9k sold – dropped from over 11k.
More ammunition for the anti-King anons.

Nobody is getting sold. The IP and potential for profit from movies and merch is where the real value is.

Absolute "worse" case scenario is they shut down in house production and license the publication rights out to somebody else. "Worse" is in quotation marks because I think getting farmed out could be what DC needs. Clears out the entire upper management including Didio and all his cronies who keep running things into the ground.

>Absolute "worse" case scenario is they shut down in house production and license the publication rights out to somebody else.
Isn't Marvel already doing that? A number of their comics is now published by IDW, lol.

>Marvel is king. And this is not company wars, no matter how much you want to push this meme (I'm a DCfag myself, but yeah, keep saying I'm not). Marvel is just more popular. Always has been, way before the movies. They're an efficient zombie-creating machine that will buy whatever they put out.

are you me? im a huge DC fan and if buying superhero books its DC. and yes, people will buy anything if it has a marvel logo on it.
>walking past hot topic in the mall where i work
>avengers, captain america, xmen, and spiderman shirts and funko pops and whatever else are in the window, and like 1 generic batman shirt.
>go to barnes and noble
>marvel trade paperbacks out the ass, avengers, xmen, spiderman, starwars, cap marvel
>DC section is literally just dark knight returns, hush, and scott snyder batman
theres always young people or new readers at my lcs who will buy spiderman or avengers books and wont pick up any dc stuff.

i think with marvel ips in the movie theater, on netflix, and dominating the non comic book store and popular culture in general is contributing to marvel doing better sales wise than DC. which is a damn shame because DC has the better characters and talent

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>At Marvel, "KNULL, THE GOD OF VENOM" is compared to Watchmen. At DC, shit like that wouldn't get any attention.
DC pushes through exactly as much stupid shit as Marvel. GODSPEED, Rogal Zharr kills the Superman Universe, "Bane breaks the Bat('s heart), Ultra Edgelord Joker-Batman with Robins on leashes, none of this stuff is anything but rubbish. And don't get me started on nearest-Mexican-equivalent Alan Moore's work.

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>I slavishly buy DC for Quality!
>But those guys slavishly buying Marvel, they are undiscerning fanboy zombies.
Get some self-awareness, Superfag.

are these numbers just for print or print and digital?

I mean, DC literally put out 50% less books than Marvel. Looking at the numbers with that relative in mind it actually makes Marvel look pretty bad.

Just print

>Monthly sales data for comics comes from comic book distributors who serve comics shops in North America. These figures come in two varieties: Preorders, for information before February 2003, and Final Orders, for information from February 2003 and later.
>The rankings of comics preordered from Capital City Distribution, one of the largest distributors of the 1980s and 1990s, appear here beginning with...
comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

Why is DC doing fewer books and why is Marvel publishing so many books?

>they are undiscerning fanboy zombies.

not really fanboys, theyve just been bombarded with marvel stuff that thats all they know and are comfortable with reading. if you know you like spiderman, why spend 4 bucks on a DC book youre not sure youll like?

if you like mcdonalds, why go to the burger king next to it?

>only one patron
patreon.com/comichron
That's a damn shame.

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>DC pushes through exactly as much stupid shit as Marvel. GODSPEED, Rogal Zharr kills the Superman Universe, "Bane breaks the Bat('s heart), Ultra Edgelord Joker-Batman with Robins on leashes, none of this stuff is anything but rubbish.
WHO praised those? WHO? The only one in that list who got as much praise as Knull was "The Batman Who Laughs", and just for the novelty of it, because no one, and I repeat, NO ONE, pretends that "Metal" reshaped the medium of comic books like Marvel fans do to Cates' Venom.

Any mediocre Marvel story becomes "amazing" just for having the Marvel logo on its cover.

Because Marvel is throwing everything at the way trying to get things to stick. DC are more measured.
As a result Marvel books get constantly cancelled and rebooted while DC builds omnibuses and more memorable mini-series for money down the line.
Even then DC has some fucking shit going on right now between Bendis, King, Ric Grayson, the now castrated Titans and all those shit Verdigo and Wonder Comic lines.

Like three all-ages titles. Suposedly because Marvel is incappable of producing material for kids, (which is fucking sad). Definetly could be test for a possible farming out. Big question would be in that case whether IDW would be allowed to produce material for older readers and how much they'd produce.

>why is Marvel publishing so many books?
muh crossovers. have you seen the amount of war of the realms books? if youre gonna have a big event, why have one book when you can crossover with every character you have? DCs big "events" (heroes in crisis and doomsday clock) are just 2 books.

I'm sad that you are this dumb. Marvel, Image, DC and all the rest sit on the same shelving. People tend to buy around genres, characters or writers. Superman just isn't everyone's genre, and Batman has been doing stupid shit for quite a while.
The real mindless fanboys are the ones filling the pull with BATMAN, while the books have been stupid characters doing stupid shit.
Everything is BATMAN because its readership just cannot stop buying it at any quality.

But DC just cut HALF their books, that doesn't count as cancellation?
Oh, but it is bad just when Marvel does it, even though they never went close to cancel half their books.

Metal had any sort of tie-in, one shots, prologues and the more the merrier.
And DClock was supposed to end one year ago, thank god it didn't had any tie-ins, same for HiC.

DC is putting out less at the moment for a couple of reasons. They've effectively cancelled a bunch of the imprints like Hanna-Barbera Beyond, New Age of Heroes, Young Animal etc. They're in a holding pattern waiting for Doomsday Clock to end so they can do books like JSA, LOSH and whatever else spins out of it. They've said that these last few months were the bottom, from solicits we know that they're gonna start to up the amount of series in the coming months to more normal levels (these have been historically low months for DC in terms of books being put out)

Marvel on the hand just seem to be throwing everything and the kitchen sink at the wall. It's insane how many books they're putting out. Marvel is putting out too many and DC is putting out too few.

HiC and Doomsday Clock are more like maxiseries. Stuff like Final Crisis, Forever Evil, and Metal are events.

I like both and both put out a lot of shit every month man, Marvel has like the double of books so that's why they get more shit

Yeah, because most marvel comics don't make it to issue 10 while most DC books go to about 50.
At that point maybe they just wanted to change things up and make room for Leviathan and Year of The Villain or whatever.

>Young Animal
that's back now

yeah thats why i put it in quotes.

DC only cut their extra stuff and are back to putting out the same number of comics that they did before Rebirth. That Higgins guy got scared because he thought they were cutting down to 22 ongoings but they were just shutting down the imprints they started up.

Don’t stress the numbers. Investors like Warner better than Disney because Warner isn’t controlled by a family(like Disney)

>Leviathan

leviathan? you mean from Action Comics? the same leviathan written by Bendis? the bendis who is writing action comics and superman?

I wouldn't even cheekily call them events.

>
While i could just point out the HUGE success that was New Age of Heroes all those books are still- oh, right.

New Age of Heroes made me quit Marvel. What a fucking shitshow that was.

All that matters is if Batman stays at number 1.

If it gets back up to best selling ongoing that isn't #1-5 or an event tie-in then there is no problem.

If Hulk smashes Batman again then there is reason to panic.

You're forgetting all the money gets from normies from movies, tv shows video games, toys, etc. They just had a slow month. People will be buying Doomsday Clock and Last Night on Earth and maybe even HiC if they're dumb enough this month.

Look what you made me do! You reminded me of this shit!

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>People will be buying Doomsday Clock and Last Night on Earth and maybe even HiC if they're dumb enough this month.

Well the digital buyers definitely were.
comixology.com/comics-best-sellers

the 90s?

How long until Disney buys DC so they finally can own everything? Soon I hope

Are these in order? Because if they are it's kinda crazy how easily DC can dominate a month whenever they feel like it.