After all the deconstructions Batman has gone through over the years...

Is ink digital too, user?

>is ink
Old comics used a very expensive form of red inks, not compounded heat treated paper like we have now.

>hey what if Batman was a crazy guy
How novel.

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Pretty sure this same run includes lots of red blood, too.

In this comic, I think the point was ultimately that Batman beats himself up relentlessly for every single slip or mistake he makes, even under the most understandable of circumstances. He's been letting this one instance, when he almost killed The Riddler for doing some truly heinous shit for truly petty reasons and The JOKER of all people stopped him from breaking his code, haunt him and plague him with thoughts of moral unworthiness. It's so deeply troubled him that he feels Catwoman might not want to marry him after hearing that he isn't, or asn't always been, a perfect and unwavering enemy of all homicide (despite the fact that most people would probably forgive or partly excuse such a lapse, given the circumstances). He fears that one small error has rendered him forever a hypocrite, unworthy of love. She finds that thought amusing and dismisses it.

In Spider-Man the animated series, Spider-Man wasn't allowed to punch people.

Tom King doesn't understand how to have a point.

Police are problematic user. They will call their local community commisar.

>police are problematic
Not anymore so than a super hero who destroys public property and physically beats criminals. Sounds more like a cop + a terrorist in one.

It's homoerotic. The Joker wants Batman to flip out and kill HIM, not some other villain. Notice me Batpai!

>deconstructions
Pls stop throwing this word around

You missed the joke about lefties user was trying to make.

I didn't know his nipples are unusual color. Has some comic showed him bare-chested for some reason, and what color were they?

I came into this thread to say exactly this. Watchman is a deconstruction, this is a romantic anti-hero Batman.

Shut the fuck up. Tom King's deconstructing Batman as a hero and a man.

No, he's just writing a more emotional Batman.

No, that's being emotional. He's writing an emasculated and castrated Batman who wants a mommy to fix all his problems and feefees.

The point?
I'm pretty sure they 'deconstruct' it without trying to even make a point because if you deconstruct it's immediately deep and clever commentary but they're not clever enough to actually think of a point. That's why it's such horseshit.

>who wants a mommy to fix all his problems and feefees.
Correct
>He's writing an emasculated and castrated Batman
Incorrect

Batman is still doing Batman things like he's always done, this run is characterized by a Batman who cannot be stopped.

Batman's completely emasculated and castrated in King's run. He's emotionally and physically dependent on Catwoman, never being able to rise above his own problems or any situation at all really without her emotional and physical support. It almost comes to the point of infantilism. I wouldn't be shock if Bruce dressed himself as a baby making gugah and aahs while lifting his bun for Selina to wipe.

>Batman is still doing Batman things like he's always done
Show me instances of Batman saving an innocent or defeating a villain.

>physically dependent on Catwoman,
Nah son
>never being able to rise above his own problems
Because he faces them head on.
>It almost comes to the point of infantilism
You have no idea what you're talking about.

The airplane.

He's completely dependent on Catwoman to handle his villains for him. Bane, Talia, Poison Ivy. The only one he faced alone was Gotham.
>King's Batman
>facing something head on
King's Batman is always pondering and crying about his own personal problems.

You mean the one Batman wasn't able to properly land and needed Gotham and Gotham Girl's help to save? That airplane?

i think its more just that edginess sells. I think thats why BtAS was so popular, it was dark, but it wasn't retard levels of violence and psychopathy.

Don't Bendis speak at me young man.

It's Batman literally fighting an army.

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>edginess sells
So that's why Immortal Hulk is so popular!

I mean the scene where Batman was willing to do anything to save innocents.

#70 was literally an entire issue of him beating his way out of Arkham Asylum.

They always try to pull these interpretations:

>Batman is deep down as crazy as his rogues
>Batman is deep down a terrible father
>Batman is deep down a terrible friend
>Batman is deep down a terrible person
>Batman is deep down a villain
>Batman created all the rogues one way or another
>the rogues are all victims of Batman's craziness/brutality
>Batman made Gotham become worse
>Batman is a problem and needs to be stopped

These at least are what comes to my mind.

While crying about his life.

Sounds you want a mindless robot for a character.

Batgod is amazing. I remember a time when three guys with a 2x4 could take him down.

He was about to fail trying to save those lives.

>He's completely dependent on Catwoman to handle his villains for him.
You just sound the most mindless shit out.

I just don't want a pussy who cries about cutting his wrist while fighting an army of faceless mooks as if he was a goddamn lost in his own mind while going on automatic. That's terrible and nonsensical writing, and whatever "cool" factor the scene could have otherwise elicited is lost.

It's like watching a pornstar go all vacant eyed during a fuck session. You just lose your boner and start thinking what the fuck is going on in this poor soul's life.

No he wasn't actually. He was completely willing to sacrifice himself knowing he would save thousands of live

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even from the thumbnail in the catalog I could smell the blender.

I mean, their not wrong. Ever since the 80's batman has been trying to ape the punisher with a pg-13 rating. Its been garbage for nigh on 30 years, the kind of people who read Batman comics are the kind of kids who are afraid of getting caught with a Punisher comic under their bed.

I really had hoped netflix would do moonknight. He has a bit of everything for everyone and would not even need a big budget

This was when I stop buying Kings comics. I read Batman for being Batman, not being a joke in this own comic.

Okay, one instance. Give me another one.

for most of these you don't have to go deep down, its a self evident byproduct of his crusade. Can't be a good father if you are not there for your kid or put them in danger.

Do people still remember how in Batman: The Cult there is a woman being raped and batman just keeps driving because he can't take on the whole horde?

Hilarious

>Show me instances of Batman saving an innocent or defeating a villain.

Completely superfluous and autistic demand. Batman saves lives by stopping the bad guys. The run literally starts with Batman stopping the plane from crashing into the middle of Gotham. Then you have the night of the monster men, where Batman rallies his troops and stops the entire city from burning to the ground.

In the next issue.

in what way?

>Then you have the night of the monster men, where Batman rallies his troops and stops the entire city from burning to the ground.
Also not written by Tom King. What's next? The Flash cross-overs where we get to see Batman saving people, but were written by Williamson?

>Also not written by Tom King
Plotted by him.

>Batman saves lives by stopping the bad guys.
See, the problem that everything is part of Bane's keikaku.

The idea of Batman trying not to make eye contact with a rape victim.
>sorry but you're on your own

I really doubt it. Even if truth, then the other writers took some pretty big liberties. Tom King's Batman is no hero.

Because Batman can't be stopped.

>Tom King's Batman is no hero.
He is though.

No, it's because Bane is suicidal, like every other character in this run, and he wants to drive Batman into killing him.

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Yeah, but that's what the otehr user(s) said: it's not a useless, emasculated, or castrated Batman. It's a more emotional Batman.

He's sad and mopey and sort of suicidal. He gets frustrated, depressed, dependent, and self-doubting. If that's not your cup of tea, that's afir. However, he still does all this while kicking ridiculous amounts of villain ass. He fights an army. He fights his way out of Arkham. He beats Mr. Freeze into a blubbering mess after he gets left at the alter. He kicks the asses of all the minor villains around town looking for answers. He headbutts Bane unconscious.

Saves a lot of civilians, too.

Is he, though? Really?

red blood looks kind of edgy. Black can be better if used correctly and this is one of the times it does.

Some people like their edgy heroes to also be conflicted and brooding rather than just vengeful and full of righteous fury.

>red blood looks kind of edgy.
has onions replaced your blood or were you always retarded?

Being suicidal doesn't make you weak, especially in the context of Batman and Bane. Instead they use that and hone themselves to a razor edge. Really, King is a weeb because this is some ronin shit.

Nigga what the actual fuck

Yeah, he saves lives and stop bad guys.

Nah, he's able to fight random armies of mooks, or funny Z-listers, but the big villains are always taken out by Selina, not Batman. Even these instances of Batman fighting armies of faceless mooks are framed to portray him in a bad light. Like as if he was just being grinded and mowed down by all this superhero nonsense. And he really, if ever, saves anyone.

This is an useless, emasculated, and castrated Batman. He's entirely dependent on a woman who holds all the cards of his life. One bad deal from her, and he's a mess. She owns him. She controls his life. A word from her means death or salvation. Batman's completely pussywhipped.

>natural color for blood
>edgy

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But he's never able to help someone, much less himself, and he always need help to defeat the bad guys.

>but the big villains are always taken out by Selina, not Batman
He just literally gave you an instance where that's not the case.

Goddamn I never realized how much I miss this woman.

>But he's never able to help someone,
Saving lives isn't helping people?

Batman only managed to "win" against Bane because Catwoman took Bane's entire crew out by herself and Bane was just faking it. He wanted to be taken down so he could plot Batman's downfall from inside Arkham Asylum.

If it's written by someone else, it doesn't count.

What about him literally fighting all of Arkham?

First issue was written by Tom king.

Part of Bane's keikaku to discredit him as a madman, and then part of Bane's keikaku to give a little bit of hope before crushing it before his eyes.

>Part of Bane's keikaku to discredit him as a madman
He still did it, Bane's plan rely entirely in Batman actually being able to beat up everyone.

What if the villains are just pretending they're getting hurt by Batman, and once Batman leaves all proud they start to laugh about his sorry ass and gossiping about what's the next step in Bane's masterplan.

i'm so fucking tired of "deconstructions"

I'm sorry, Kingfags. We've all taken a poll about it and the results are that King's Batman is easily the biggest pussy there is. We all agreed so. I know, i know, but what you going to do. It just is what it is.

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I don't care, make him a detective again.
Let him solve some crimes for god sakes, who gives a shit about Bane?

>pussywhipped
Good pun, but aside from that, you're still wrong on most counts. batman kicks all kinds of villain ass in the War of Jokes & Riddles. He DOES beat Bane pretty brutally the second time they fight. He saves the plane in issue one, and leads and plans the tactical efforts which originally capture Psycho Pirate and which save Gotham from the Monster Men.

It's something new that hasn't been done before. Capeshitfags are literal children who just want the same "Batman punches bad guy" story every time.

>What if the villains are just pretending they're getting hurt by Batman

Then Batman would notice and the plan would fail. It had to be real.

>What if
Your headcanon doesn't actually change what happened in the story as written

King's Batman wouldn't notice shit, user. Bane has been pretending to be retarded for several issues now and only recently was Batman aware of it.

Batman left a bunch of people to die in the WoJaR, Bane let himself be beaten by Batman so he could plot his revenge, Batman was rescued by Gotham and Gotham Girl, and Batman's plan for Santa Prisca was entirely dependent on Catwoman doing everything for him.

Based user is correct. This is about Batman learning to actually have some degree of emotional vulnerability with someone instead of hiding behind "ooh I'm a big scary Super Hero please don't talk to me about anything remotely personal" all the time. The reason why Batman never told anyone about this is because it proved that he's human, not that he's "evil."

welcome to obamas republic of hitlerstan

Batman has tons of people he can be emotional vulnerable with, user. Stop defending shitty writing. Batman also trying to fucking stab Riddler with a goddamn machete out of frustration was also hilarious.

Name one. And before you say Robin, our boy keeps that student/teacher relationship up at all times to discourage anything resembling social interaction.

JL doesn't count either; the closest I've seen is Hal once and WW over the course of 40 fucking years.

Look how much Alfred got fuqed.

Alfred, Leslie, Dick, Barbara, Tim, Superman, Wonder Woman, and several other characters.

Hell, even in King's own run. It was Dick with Bruce had a heart of heart about Selina leaving his sorry ass. Read more Batman, user. He's not a robot and Catwoman is not the only person in his life.

There's good edgy, and then there's retarded edgy. Learn the difference.

Yeah, call me uneducated, but I can't remember a single time before War of Jokes and Riddles when Batman ever had a meaningful conversation with Alfred, Dick, or Tim. I've always seen it go like this:

Alfred:
>Bruce, we should talk
>No I'm doing work

Dick:
>Dad we should talk
>I'm fine you're the one doing badly

Tim:
>Dad we should talk
>Who the fuck even are you

>Batman also trying to fucking stab Riddler with a goddamn machete out of frustration was also hilarious.
What's hilarious about it?

That's a long leap in trying to argue that Batman didn't actually beat them up.

Then you are a fucking casual.

>Batman left a bunch of people to die in the WoJaR
He didn't leave them to die, he was just unable to save them. Batman is not omnipotent as to save every life, not even Superman does that
>Batman was rescued by Gotham and Gotham Girl
So? Batman was still the one who saved the plane.

Try reading some non-shit books.

Batman spent more time fucking Catwoman and acting retarded in WoJaR than actively trying to do something constructive. That was an extremely stupid story-line.

It's a fair question, how honest are these discussions?

>Batman spent more time fucking Catwoman
No he didn't.

How about a 100%? Don't you have any shame in flaunting you lack of knowledge in comics? You actually think that Bruce never had any meaningful interacting between Alfred or Dick just because King told you so?

Fuck, there's even a fucking animated movie which is really, REALLY popular where Batman tells Jason he has always wanted to kill the Joker but was afraid of losing to bloodlust. A fucking dumb notion, yes, but still it happened.

Comic books aren't checklists. You don't need to count each and every interaction.

>This movie was popular therefore it is valid
>Proceeds to post invalid point in movie

500 IQ gentleman right here folks

Also, you're missing the fact that even if you don't like what the story's about, at least it's not about "oh no Batman is a really bad dude guys" all over again. We're past that point.

Well, it is. The notion that Bruce doesn't kill because he's afraid of never stopping is a very silly and edgy one. But that's not the point. That's still a meaningful interact between Bruce and Jason where Bruce opens up to Jason about a very personal and ugly fear he has.

>You actually think that Bruce never had any meaningful interacting between Alfred or Dick just because King told you so?
I'm not saying that nor is king saying that but how long has Batman been treated like a stoic enigma like a distant father figure or martyr? We've seen writers come at this angle when treating with Batman's trauma.

We've also seen Batman taking his armor down and approaching his family like... family. You don't even have to look that back in the past. We've several instances of this happening in Rebirth era comics. Be it with Alfred, Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, Barbara, and so on.

Must have been a shitty joke, then

>"oh no Batman is a really bad dude guys"
This isn't what King's Batman is about.

>can be very dark
No. It is actually bright as fuck, especially that fresh.

You have clearly no idea of what you are talking about.
>and there's probably some artistic value

lol yeah the artistic value of censorship.

Kingfags are the most dishonest idiots there is.

I think my comment earlier flew under the radar, so I'll reiterate: Even if you're right, WoJaR is at least about something interesting that attempts to develop Batman, unlike the stuff mentioned in
^^this post

>We've also seen Batman taking his armor down and approaching his family like... family
Exactly my point, Batman only gets emotional in this patriarchal manner which still carries this distance.

>WoJaR is at least about something interesting that attempts to develop Batman
WoJaR was just a very, VERY stupid arc about Batman being a huge failure and incompetent who couldn't stop a gang war between the Joker and the Riddler not matter what he tried. So in his impotent desperation he tries to fucking stab the Riddler's chest with a machete, because of course he would, but the Joker stopped him, which to Batman means he now owns being a hero to the Joker. This all so Batman could act like a little bitch who's afraid Catwoman won't accept to marry his sorry if she knew this oh so dark past. It's literally Batman wallowing in self-pity and acting retarded, both in the past and present.

It was all very stupid and dumb, and the whole point is Batman is very retarded.

No, fuck off. Batman always open up. He always comes forward with his fear and insecurities.

Every writer likes to write Batman showing that he's not just the big bad bat, there's a scared and imperfect human deep inside as well. King isn't breaking any new grounds here.

>impotent
>emasculated
>castrated
Is your dick broke?

>Batman always open up. He always comes forward with his fear and insecurities.
No he doesn't.

Dude, he literally stopped the gang war. Yeah, it was all part of the Riddler's Master Plan™, but that doesn't mean that he he didn't do it.

Past runs, some even lasting a decade, say otherwise. Read more fucking comic books, for god's sake.

Why would anyone assume that if beating them was part of some other villain's plan? They could literally be in on it.

So you're saying Batman managed to stop the war thanks to the Riddler. Wow, what a great hero.

Blood is black, when it is thick and soaks fabric.
It is only red when it is a smudge or on light background. Altho, blood soaked white fabric looks more black than red, and is deep brown when it dries

>When you stop a gang war that's taking over the city but it's bad because you didn't stop it the right way

Because it wasn't Batman who did it.

>this logic
The red on his lips and eyes are visible quite well, meaning the blood on the blade would be as well.

No King, it's not always about deconstruction you wimpering buffon.

Dude, go ahead and cut up a vein.
Then let it soak a cloth. The cloth is not red, it is black.
Red = blood is an artistic trope. Real blood is not always red. And seeing how shocked you are by black blood shows that you are conditioned to recognize tropes as reality.
You know what? It is symbolic, alright? Joker has black blood cos he's that evil.

>it is black
No it's brown. Brown like rust.

>black blood cause he's evil
Then his body tissue around his eyes would be black, same for the veins that are clearly shown as red on his eyes. Same for his nose as well which is clearly showing a blushing emotional reaction to being stabbed.

When it is dry, ye.

It almost as though he isn't a real person.

You are a fucking idiot and have no idea what you are talking about.
The red in the movies is actually DARKER than it should be. If anything it should be brighter.
It only reaches that darkness when it is condensed overtime.
Please stop acting like you know shit just to defend your King, you dumb idiot.

>You know what? It is symbolic, alright? Joker has black blood cos he's that evil.

You know what? Make up whatever explanation you want, people who aren't dumb like you knows this is censorship.
You are the only one man army that will eat this is nonethelles.

>almost a real person
In the comics he is a real person. Killing someone doesn't just make your blood change color user.

People also tend to die when you dip them in toxic chemicals, not turn in to a clown with chalk-white skin, red lips, and green hair.

>toxic chemicals
Toxic chemicals don't always kill, They can cause skin diseases and mental problems like schizophrenia

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>They can cause skin diseases and mental problems like schizophrenia
They don't turn you in to The Joker.

>they don't turn you into the Joker
I mean, you exist without falling into a vat of chemicals.

That's because we live in a society.

>using real world phenomena as absolute proof for the decisions of an artist/writer in a comic book or any other piece of fiction
The people writing comic books aren't masters of all known sciences.

I'm proud of you.

And I don't think comics are for you.

Bullshit, they're all renaissance men.

They aren't. I find cape shit like this to be for the same type of people who like Rick and Morty. It's a product set as the lowest hanging fruit.

Great, you know where the door is.

Casuals gfto

>door
Their are no doors here. Don't use idioms so poorly.

That's not what deconstruction means in the context of writing you stupid faggot

>all comics are capeshit
YIKES

You know what, no. Fuck you. I donate blood every 2 months and used to cut up rabbits and mice for a living. I can testify that black blood is not far fetched. Sure, it is not totally black, but it is closer to black than red when it soaks something.

If it's a comic it's literal trash like all cape shit, Graphical Novels on the other hand are a far superior platform and actually have worlds worth diving into.

Back during the I am Gotham/Suicide/Bane, we got blood. The Button included blood as well. And you see blood in War of Jokes and Riddles early on.
BUT in the following arcs, like Rules of Engagement, Everyone Loves Ivy, and The Best Man, the blood is also colored Black.

I think it either comes down to the size of the blood splatter determining the censorship, or there was just an editorial shift that governed when blood can be red or not without altering the book's rating.

Also, good take on WoJaR. That's how I read it. I particularly took that while she certainly was unsettled by the revelation, ultimately Selina's empathy and love of Bruce was able to bring her to forgive.

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>Selina
>a literal whore and thief
>being unsettled because a rich, handsome guy who's in love with her tried to kill someone bad once out of frustration
>her needing to forgive him of anything
TOP KEK.

I think there needs to be more batman true crime novels where he solves crimes. More detective and less superhero

>Detective Comics
>World's Greatest Detective
What makes you think he needs to do any of that shit?

the point is that batman is a person, he has breaking points. he doesn't kill not because he's psychologically incapable of killing but because he strives constantly to be better than that.

He's insane, don't listen to him.

>Spider-Man shows up
>gets shoulder checked by bad guy
>immediately passes out
>bad guy's lair conveniently begins to explode and takes them out

Every time.

Kings batman is so gay.

He’s closer to Superman than any of those JL members. Your beloved King even says so retard

user, the first includes the second, come on. A man who wants a mommy to fix all his problems and feefees is emasculated and castrated.

The problem with King's batman is that he is pitiable. You can have batman lose, be hurt, manipulated, hallucinating, beat up, betrayed, even killed. But he still has to be cool. Impressive. Someone men want to be and women want to fuck. Superheroes have to be escapist power fantasies, they have to be cool. Otherwise they lose their point. The one emotion a cape comic should under no circumstances elicit, unless it's an isolated mini-elseworld stuck in the far corners of non canon, is pity.
You should never pity fucking Batman. If you do, the writer failed, end of story.
King has Clark say this, that Bruce is who every guy wants to be, in the carnival story where this mongrel of a writer, that due to an absentee father lacks male role models proves he can't write the fucking world's finest as good friends. Even King is "aware" of that notion. But he is either unwilling or unable to deliver on it and it makes his run shit to me. Shit.

bump

>how long has Batman been treated like a stoic enigma like a distant father figure or martyr?
never?

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Joker's entire game is doing unexpected shit. In this page I feel like he just realized that he prefers trying to make Batman break his no kill rule, rather than actually making Batman break that rule.

Why can't we have Morrison's Batman back. He's a good guy.

why is batman adrien brody