Now that the dust has finally settled, was she the victim or the abuser?

Jasper's not innocent either. She's a sadist and desperate to prove she's not weak because she's a random Quartz in another Diamond's court. She had to be "perfect" for Yellow to even take her seriously.

you mean like how the producer of the new she ra cartoon abused the SU crew?

I think in one of those long gone /sug/ threads, one of the crewniverse members had said that she would work as a slave in Homeworld mines.

Why do people always bring this up when talking about Lapis and Jasper? Of course Jasper is a bad person.
But if your neighbor is a massive asshole so you decide to lock him up in your basement, it doesn't matter what kind of person he is, you're in the wrong.

>But if your neighbor is a massive asshole so you decide to lock him up in your basement, it doesn't matter what kind of person he is, you're in the wrong.
But what if your neighbor tries to murder your other neighbors?

Use self-defense? Torturing someone isn't considered self-defense and you could still get into trouble even if the person was threatening you.

>But if your neighbor is a massive asshole so you decide to lock him up in your basement, it doesn't matter what kind of person he is, you're in the wrong.
That logic isn't welcomed in the Legend of Korra threads since those anonymous posters will die for the "antagonists."

>Torturing someone
Lapis barely hold Jasper at bay so she couldn't destroy Earth.

Then why didn't Lapis just fucking poof Jasper, she's clearly strong enough to
And Jasper was in no position to 'destroy the earth' at that point

>she's clearly strong enough to
Rebecca had already admitted that they couldn't portray Lapis right in her debut. She was never meant to be that strong.

I don't recall Rebecca saying anything like that, but Lapis needs time to pull most strong constructs together. It's why she couldn't just grab the Ruby ship out of the sky when Navy took it (besides the fact she was more concerned with being right of course)

Lapis was vulnerable before they fuse. Jasper could have shattered her before Lapis could use any magic if Lapis rejected fusion.

It's impossible for Lapis to be the victim in Malachite because she chose to fuse with Jasper under false pretenses, was needlessly forcing Jasper to stay in the fusion for months on end just so she could have a prisoner to torture, was exerting her power over Jasper by taking away her bodily autonomy and isolating her under the ocean, and was using Jasper to take all her anger towards the homeworld gems and CGs that trapped and used her in the mirror out on, something Jasper had nothing to do with, while Jasper had never even tried to hurt Lapis and originally just asked to fuse because she needed help beating the CGs. An abuser has to have control over their victim to be an abuser, Lapis had the control and admitted she enjoyed misusing it to make Jasper suffer, Jasper was the one literally being fusion raped and used as a punching bag until she became dependant on it.

It wasn't self defense because Jasper was already defeated by Garnet and wouldn't have stood a chance against all the CGs at the end of Jailbreak, much less Lapis who has already shown she can easily water punch Jasper into the sky and take out all the CGs at once. She hadn't even done anything to Lapis except help Peridot use her as an informant and bring her back to Earth. Rebecca confirmed that to Lapis it didn't matter that it was Jasper, that she just wanted to have control and had so much anger at so many people that she wanted to take out on someone, and that Jasper just wanted to return to it because she's self destructive and hates herself.

People only defend Lapis for this by saying Jasper "deserved" it, but she didn't. She only returned to Earth so she could personally defeat Rose for revenge, the same Rose that ruined her life by killing her diamond, forcing her to be born into war, and brandishing her home planet and the gems from it as failures to homeworld, who also turned out to be PD, making Jasper her legitimate victim who's antagonism was misguided and based on lies.

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+++ Alone at Sea makes Lapis' whole takeaway from Malachite out to be a message on not taking your trauma out on people who aren't responsible for it and not letting your past abuse turn you into an abuser yourself. Lapis felt guilty about what she did to Jasper, she was scared of abusing her powers over her friends if she was given control the same way she did to Jasper in Malachite, by refusing to fuse again she was vowing to never abuse her powers over someone else again. That completely goes over some people's heads.

She's a victim in the mirror situation, that's where all her trauma and issues stem from, not Malachite.

>Jean shorts unbuttoned, revealing just a little bit of underwear

M U H
U
H

What the fuck are the homeworld mines?

That user is just memeing

>don't have any idea about homeworld mines
Slave gems used to work in homeworld mines before late Era 1 Gem drill tech appeared and ended that centuries long custom. Afterwards, those mines were named as kindergarten.

Some anonymous crewniverse member had said that Homeworld were used to punish defiant gems as slaves in mines before they were known as kindergartens in a /sug/ thread long ago. Afterwards, he said that they had to drop the concept because CN execs had considered it way too grim for the show.

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No one on the crewniverse ever said that you autist. In the screengrab you posted Rebecca is just talking about gem language and the symbols used to show which diamond the kindergartens belong to. By "gems being mined" she means the gems being created in the kindergarten. Lapis Lazulis are made to terraform planets during colonization and likely do play a role in forming kindergartens but there's no evidence of gems being forced to work in literal mines.

This was never Jasper's goal, she only wanted to destroy Rose. ALSO Lapis didn't give a damn about Earth, Jasper arguably cared more for it for the sake of it being her birthplace

Jasper wasn't even trying to destroy earth and Lapis's actual intentions in holding Jasper was made clear several times. She definitely wasn't doing it to save earth. Please stop relying on headcanon to make arguments.

Not him but I'm sure that I've also heard something like that in /sug/ threads.

> Jasper had never even tried to hurt Lapis and originally just asked to fuse because she needed help beating the CGs.
That's not how it was. You just present situation to fit you narrative like it was some sort of polite asking while it certainly was not. In reality Lapis tried to escape battlefield but Jasper roughly grabbed and stopped her. Later she roughly played with Lapis' body as with toy in humiliating manner.
> It wasn't self defense because Jasper was already defeated by Garnet and wouldn't have stood a chance against all the CGs at the end of Jailbreak, much less Lapis who has already shown she can easily water punch Jasper into the sky and take out all the CGs at once.
Then why she didn't do it when Jasper grabbed her? Lapis was exhausted and damaged by ship wrecking and couldn't do much in close combat anyway. Jasper had upper hand in that situation.
In summary Lapis tried to leave but was physically forced to stay by Jasper.

It's been rumored that Homeworld used gem labor before using machines in kindergartens. It's not technically confirmed but just a rumor from an inside source who used to post in/sug/.

Your waifu is a rapist

If by "toy with Lapis' body" you mean stop her from flying away so that she could get Lapis to hear her out then sure, but she let go of Lapis right after and then gave her the chance to make a decision, she didn't even use threats or lies to influence Lapis' choice, she straight up says that she just wants to fuse because she needs help beating the CGs and that Lapis could benefit from it too because she knew Lapis hated them for keeping her trapped in the mirror. That's not hurting Lapis or forcing her to fuse, and doesn't give Lapis an excuse to trick and torture her.

Instead of refusing to fuse and helping the CGs by poofing Jasper or punching her across the ocean like she did in Alone at Sea, Lapis agreed to fuse because she wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to have a prisoner to torture after being a prisoner herself for so long, she literally says this as she's dragging Jasper into the ocean, she literally says that she liked taking everything out on Jasper, REBECCA literally says that "it didn't matter that it was Jasper" and Lapis' reason for deciding to keep Jasper trapped in the fusion was that she felt like she needed to vent the anger she had towards everyone who mistreated her while she was in the mirror.

nobody cares, shit show

She was just a shoddy attempt at a sympathy character but all she was was moody and obnoxious, made me hate the series before memidot did.

We all know that both characters would have done what they did to each other given the chance.

But it did nothing for everything as a whole and just ruined two characters.

That's PTSD for you.

she was a character written as a sympathetic villain even though she was supposed to be a good guy. and then no one had the balls to make her the villain she was written as.

who did she abuse?

>b-b-but she has p-PTSD! that means e-everything she does is OK regardless of how it effects other people!

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Nobody said Lapis was justified in what she did and she took full blame for her actions.

peridot,jasper.

no she didn't.

>peridot
lol

She was both, of course. Her and Jasper are both messed up for different reasons and in different ways.

But I'd have to say Lapis has much better reasons for being nasty.

>she's a random Quartz

That, at least, has never been true.

>Torturing someone

We-e-e-ell... was it torture? She was holding on to her so she couldn't leave... but honestly, a few months of being hugged by -

Hmmm. Maybe it was the intimacy that hurt her. Jasper is lonely, probably by design.

Really now?

>ALONE AT SEA
>Steven: [Sighs] I'm so sorry! This whole thing is my fault. I just wanted you to have fun, but everything's a mess. I shouldn't have made you come on this trip.
>Lapis: It's my fault. I'm the one to blame.
>Steven: That's not true.
>Lapis: I'm really trying to enjoy it out here, but... I can't stop thinking about being fused as Malachite, how I used all my strength to hold her down in the ocean, and how I was always battling against Jasper to keep her bound to me.
>Steven: But it's not like that anymore. You don't have to be with Jasper.
>Lapis: That's not it. I... I miss her.
>Steven: What?!
>Lapis: [Sighs] We were fused for so long.
>Steven: But... she's terrible.
>Lapis: I'm terrible! I did horrible things! I-I broke your dad's leg. I stole Earth's ocean! Go on! Tell me I'm wrong!

And then

>Steven: Lapis, don't listen to her!
>Jasper: Stay out of this!
>Lapis: I was terrible to you. I liked taking everything out on you. I needed to. I-I hated you. It was bad!

AND THEN

>CAN'T GO BACK

>Lapis: I might have overreacted about the Diamonds.
>Steven: You really think they're coming?
>Lapis: I don't even know anymore. I've done so much because I was afraid. I left ?Peridot behind. I took the barn. And her morps.
>Steven: At least she has Pumpkin.
>Lapis: I was so sure the Diamonds would destroy my new home, that I did it myself. It's like I'm back inside The Mirror, except I put myself here.

>"That, at least, has never been true."
technically it is, jasper is just some random quartz that was born perfect by accident, any quartz could have been that, it just happened to be her.

>Hmmm. Maybe it was the intimacy that hurt her. Jasper is lonely, probably by design.
Jasper probably wants Lapis back beyond her powers

>CAN'T GO BACK
you mean the episode where she runs away again? also, notice everytime she says "maybe i fucked up?" steven just goes "lol, nah your fine". she never apologized to jasper ot peridot for anything.

she didn't abuse peridot, also jasper was a treat

Tell me this is not abusive.

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She admitted fault to Jasper and didn't even have time for a proper chat with Peridot because she came back in the middle of a fight.

>she didn't abuse peridot
you know how i can tell you never watched the show user?
>jasper was a treat
your goddamn right she was

Raising the Barn was basically all about Lapis being abusive. The only reason it wasn't more overt is because they actively wrote it the opposite way to avoid pointing blame.

>She admitted fault to Jasper
not an apology
>didn't even have time for a proper chat with Peridot because she came back in the middle of a fight.
its literally a couple of words, so not a valid excuse.

Yes, well... I'd say that makes her exactly 'not just another quartz'.

I wouldn't be the first to suggest Jasper is a submissive mainly so she doesn't have to admit she WANTS to be intimate.
"Curses! I am in your power! I have no choice but to accede to your every whim. How I hate this captivity, which forces me to be so intimate with a gem I despise. All my great power is useless now! Grrrr! This is unbearable."

>jasper was a treat

Damn right she was.

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she was a victim of a botched message.

Could of been the best otp ever if Rebeca didn’t pussy out

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Don't tell me you've never made up with someone without actively saying sorry before, especially if you're a man. You don't get to say what is and what isn't an apology just because it proves you wrong.

exactly, all the waifu and selfinsert fags would get butthurt cause their waifu is portrayed as a bad person, so we all have to act like she isnt that bad.

>Don't tell me you've never made up with someone without actively saying sorry before
no user, i haven't, because i actually swallow my pride and apologize to people who i wrong cause i at least try to be a decent person.

Lapisper post.

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have sex.

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>lapis was my favorite gem because I was foolish enough to like a character for their potential
>didn't bother me that waifufags clinged to her
>then she zuked
>the zuke got nuked along with lapis and peridot
I always feel the slightest twinge of shame whenever I see her now

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zuke episodes should just be non canon since a lot of the time they dont line up lore wise with the rest of the show.

Zuke's been gone for well over a year now and the barn's in pieces. Come back to us, brother.

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Her actions directly impacted people who hadn't wronged her in a negative manner. She made no effort to make amends and she didn't care enough to even mention them when taking stock of her actions. Lapis ended up earning the abuse she'd gone through. She was definately an abuser to more people than she was abused by.

Not just lore-wise, but character-wise as well.

thats mainly what i had in mind

That's typical of abuse victims though isn't it? They project and repeat the cycle.

doesn't make them any less bad people for doing it.

Nah I'm not implying it doesn't, just helps to understand why these characters do what they do. Redemption is entirely up to them. First they have to admit wrong (she has, if a bit of a limp-wristed manner) and seek help (she chose to become a Crystal Gem). Given her VA has been in the recording studio a few times since Change Your Mind I hope they'll actually do something with her now. Can't just go back to running away now that arc is resolved.

She's both. Abusive personalities are a communicable disease and abuse victims should be quarantined until they can prove that they're not worthless husks of the people they used to be.

She tried to drown Steven and Connie, raped Jasper, and stole Peridot's house but it's okay because she's sad and Steven likes to make fart noises with her. Won't be surprised if he lets her get away with shattering Bismuth next season.

>I hope they'll actually do something with her now
Wait I thought SU was over?

Two more seasons and a movie, baby.

Though another season is not officially confirmed by Cartoon Network, the crew and voice cast have been pretty open about working on more episodes on social media.

i bet the new season will suck. fuck dude, some of the designs are way to extreme for casual situations and change your mind was obvious series finale material. this new season will be a mistake.

Yeah, even though there are some loose ends to tie up I don't have enough trust in the whole crew to tie them up satisfyingly. It's gonna be especially weird depending on what gets covered in the movie. I just hope this will be the final season. The show's already too long as it is, it doesn't need another 2 seasons of the characters pointlessly faffing about.

She was boring, thats what she was.

They somehow managed to drag the show and and rush it at the same time. How do they even do that?

How exactly could you remove a gem without destroying the form? Stevens an exception since hes part human, but the rest are basically just meant to be solid light holograms.

It would be the only explanation as to why Lapis was in the mirror in the first place really. That whole thing was never brought up again.

by dragging the story out with pointless filler and having all character development and big story arcs being resolved in 3-4 11 minute episodes.

Could be that some people in the crystal gems thought it'd be killing two birds with one stone, imprisoning a powerful 'enemy' gem + potentially getting information off of her, shit like who she was working for/how many gems working with her, any homeworld stuff she's heard about, etc.

Whether that's something she actually said or not it's definitely true and also true of pretty much every character because nobody has a defined strength level. The only one that stays somewhat consistent is Jasper. In the first season Garnet is shown to be able to do all sorts of crazy shit she never does again.

I'd really love to see what Lapis' life was like pre war. I feel like Gem Society was much more loose at least for the bourgeoise class that Lapis was most likely a part of. I'd want to see her with her friends. The crew never even thought about that aspect of her life before imprisonment, just like many other things that weren't fully thought out.

Even if true the only way they would have known it was possible is if it was done before and if they thought it was fine to do then it would have been somewhat common practice. They were against shattering as most gems were, but that kind of torture is far worse than simply dying.
Also I guess it is implied that someone in the Crystal Gems put her in there. Now that I think about it it's extremely fucked up that they did that and Pearl, who absolutely had to have known what the deal was with the mirror was just fine with it after all that time. Sloppy.

They made one of the most interesting characters get dog aids and bubbled just for a 4 second cameo in the finale

I mean we had known from pretty early on that the CG's thing bubbling gems away is a good practice.

Hell, they may have just left Peridot in there indefinitely if Steven didn't let her out.

It really is impressive how season 2 is the only well paced season.
It's mostly down to how much time they dedicated to plot points. The show drags because they'll give us an episode like Restaurant Wars instead of giving Jasper 4 more minutes of screen time and 7 minutes dedicated to Lapis actually talking to the Crystal Gems, and that in turn makes their respective arcs seem rushed. They resourced their time poorly, especially with season 4 which easily could have been half the length.
It doesn't help that with the reveal of Rose being Pink all the time they spent on Steven coming to terms with Rose shattering Pink became pointless. Not to mention they spent like a season and a half on the shattering plot point and less than half a season on Rose being Pink. The shattering plot point really only served to stretch out the show.

I think bubbling is different. When you're bubbled you're in your own little world waiting for the time you can reform a body. Basically asleep. But if you're put into a mirror and used as a tool to chronicle and access information you are constantly perceiving the world around you and completely powerless to do anything, even move your own body or speak with your own words.

still, locking all your problems away in a closet and pretending they dont exist is a pretty bad way of handling things.

Sure it is. But I wouldn't call that outright torture like in Lapis' situation. Hell there could even be more gems crammed into objects that just happened to not be found by Steven. Probably in the bottom of pile of shit in Amethyst's room or something. God they really didn't think this through.

> they may have just left Peridot in there indefinitely if Steven didn't let her out
I mean they did exactly that with Jasper and Bismuth. Steven seems to be the only one that thinks it's worth it to get information out of your prisoners.

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i mean, amethyst has a human skull in her room and that was never questioned. it wouldnt suprise me if there were some trapped gems there to.

>Steven seems to be the only one that thinks it's worth it to get information out of your prisoners.
this is why the crystal gems are such bad soldiers, they never bother interrogating captured enemy's. thats like the first thing your supposed to do when you capture someone.

Gems in general absolutely do not have the mind for strategy of any sort

their an advanced race that can travel between planets but still fights with swords and spears, what ever gave you the impression they were tactically advanced? in a ground war, they would get fucked by a modern military.

I think the reason the gems are so primitive militarily is because they've never had to fight any alien race above caveman tier. Gems have never fought eachother before the Earth war and never fought anything that would be able to compete with them.

>"Crew" in the thread said it
Yeah okay

Women never seem to have to be judged unless they're in Puella Magi Madoka Magica