Average budget of one "Legend of Korra" episode: U$1,5 billion

Just bought the new comic for fucking 2 dollars, should I storytime it in a new thread?

>There are unions in Japan.
>Just not in animation.

So Japan doesn't have a union then.

They have "a" union. Just not an animation union.

American animation's budget is inflated by over paying irrelevant people. Both pay hardly anything on animation since both use literal sweatshops for it.

Because Japanese animators actually care about anime instead of worrying about social justice and how fat their paycheck is.

Japanese animators care about their paychecks. Many of them hate the long hours and low pay because it's not enough to make rent in Tokyo.

It’s so funny to see people talk about anime production like it’s still the 90’s. Any perceived cheapness is 10 fold on a modern American production.

Yea Forumsnon here. No they don't they care about money and tits. How many idol and isekai shows are out now? The ones that do care barely make money and popularity or once it does become popular, they're forced to work and extend their stories out when it should have need 500 episodes ago.

And yet, they continue. UNLIKE a pampered california fag.

> instead of worrying about social justice and how fat their paycheck is.

They're literally dying of hunger and poverty while working, you one inch dicked dumbass

then why every studio does the hard work on asian countries?

Tits are not a negative and milking is also rarely a problem too, unless it’s a source material issue like Bake.

You can care about having a good production without making the best anime. Even schlock usually has some redeeming factor.

Your average show is going to cost 500,000 max an episode to be fair, and that of course is with them paying livable wages. Korra had a way higher budget then usual

Hard Work is ingrained into Asian Cultures. They love bragging about Overtime.

Japanese animation is less EXPENSIVE not more cheap.

There is a difference between costliness and quality.

Overblown by california retards who are terrified to put their all in a cartoon and don’t want to be held to a similar standard. Injuries are typically self inflicted.

In California “livable wages” is higher than it needs to be.

oh my god this retardation

>O MY GOD I CAN’T EVEN RIGHT NOW

It’s true.

That’s not an excuse. Both Japan and America outsource most of the work to Korean studios. The difference in price shouldn’t be nearly as big.

Yes, but that's the industry's fault for wanting them in LA when elsewhere in the country can perfectly work too
But anime pays actual slave wages

...Not having an animation union and thus being legally allowed to abuse your workers is absolutely an excuse.

user, Only Dragonball, Naruto, One Piece, Detective Conan, Doraemon, Gundam, and Pretty Cure makes boat load of money out of merchandising.

Every other anime title is scraping to get by on BD sales.

Because Japs are passionate enough to take them.

If anime had an animation union and had to pay “livable wages” (lol) everything would regress to early digital tier shit and anime would look as shitty as steven universe.

American animation is expensive because character and building designs have more details to them. Japanese Anime have pretty simple designs, and they all use the same background shots to save money. That's why every anime is a generic Idol, or Slice of Life show.

Attached: 1556485523329.png (480x360, 188K)

So you admit it is an excuse and that the only way to get good animation is to abuse your workers.

And?

Except it isn’t abuse, yeah.

Paying your artists less than a cashier for work that is incredibly tedious and time-consuming to do just because the law says you can is indeed abusing your workers.

Korra only costed $200,000-300,000 per episode for Mir's episodes for Books 1-3, the later was for Zelda Williams' pay check while Book 4 (as well was Voltron:LD was only $90,000 per episode), $1.5 million means 100% done in the States as the main voice actors got paid less then a McDonald's fry cook.

While Avatar cost $1 million that was almost nothing but plane trips to China and Mako's/Mark Hamill's pay check as only $200,000 was spent on the actual show itself.
JAniCA says hi.
Read above, no American produced show on broadcast is above $130,000 a episode, they may stretch that to be $130,000 per 11 minutes but it's never more then $130,000 a episode in this day of age when it comes to TV animation.

Not if they are ok with it and it facilitates creation of what they are passionate about. Maybe don’t buy that second car?

>American animation is expensive because character and building designs have more details to them
Let's not say anything blatantly wrong here. Western animation is more fluid because it lacks those details.

What Western Animation? Everything is CG and Live Action now. It needs either James Baxter, or to steal a Japanese Animator just to make things fluid.

>Not if they are ok with it
Why is a sleazy executive browsing Yea Forums?

>no American produced show on broadcast is above $130,000 a episode

Attached: 63476473.png (688x514, 310K)

Debunked, as if Harvey Beaks costed that much it would of been kept in the States and have near feature quality animation.

This has been gone over before in the past.

By making it an inadvisable job economically, they disincentivize talentless phonies like most of our industry.

Only the passionate stay.

>Debunked
Source. Because my source is from the fucking creator.

I'm talking about the so-called CalArts style where everything is exceptionally simple so that the animation can be higher FPS.

He's lying.
Not true what so ever.

There's no such thing as Cal-Arts style. You must be thinking of Bauhaus, which is what most modern cartoons use.

Also theres this.

Attached: 1498073184102.jpg (1050x1018, 771K)

That's not CalArts style, that's simple efficiency and compromise. Spectacular Spider-Man did the same.

Read also this flat simple junk should of stayed in the 50s & early 60.

That’s certainly what they teach you. Why is it we had the animation renaissance of 1988-2005~?

Real talki, why do animators worship Bauhaus, Adorno, and German Stle?

America either outsourced animation to Japan, or Disney did all the hardwork

They're retarded.
Intelligent folks emulate 40s MGM, 40s Warner Bros and 40s Disney at the very least.

They are taught to, others in the industry already do and the executives encourage it because their bottom line is all that matters to them.

That’s why the upcoming Looney Tunes Cartoons project is SO special. Some executive took a chance on quality. We need to shower that shit with so much love they shouldn’t be able to stand it. We need to make bronies look like a joke.

Toei Animation has a union

>a single anime costs as much as a Supercarrier

Attached: face123.jpg (349x305, 31K)

>America outsourced animation to Japan.
Chicago & Australia say hi.

Why don’t they keep doing that?

Supercarriers are actually really cheap. Like $20,000 tops. The rest of the cost goes toward making an exclusive Chinese cartoon that only the crew members will ever be able to view.

As do other studios, it's called JAniCA.
janica.jp/

Read

How disingenuous. Anime reuses a lot less assets and utilize way less cost saving techniques than your average cartoon.

It would be really interesting to see actual financial documents from one of these productions.

That post is nothing but bullshit

Cartoons very rarely re-use animation across episodes.

Not when you outsource the majority of the work country without unions.

All I know is before 2008 when the economy collapsed people were peeing away their budget and that very little money was spent on the animation itself.

After the economy collapsed studios were much more spend thrifty when it came to budgets.

What is puppet rigged animation?

Now that money has come back I wonder if anyone will try again or if they’ll need to be forced into it by some madman churning out a quality production like last time.

Wander Over Yonder, Loud House, Kick Buttowski, Jimmy Two Shoes, and even Teen Titans Go! still have more "original" animation across every episode than your average anime.

A puppet rig is not the same as re-using animation. They might re-use walk cycles and shit, but that's not the same as what some anime does.

No it's true, at $1.5 million a episode the show would of not only been kept in the States (through Titmouse most likely) but it would of been done 100% on 1s as well (2s if the timing demands it).

You don't ditch overseas unless you barely have a budget or most of it is spent on bloated celebrity pay checks.

Zelda Williams is not Mark Hamill, she's not the one to get over a million for voice work.

Not what you think

Not to argue against you here, but a "spendthrift" is somebody who pisses money away, not somebody who uses it wisely. Not to be confused with "thrifty", which is managing your money well.

The literally reuse assets for every single animation. Verifiably more reusing of assets.

Can you quantify this number you’re saying?

I only see New Looney Tunes Mark 2 using a budget.

New Looney Tunes Mark 1 is Wabbit and that had a much smaller budget compared to these new expensive shorts.

Great response, really got me.

I see.

>Japanese Anime have pretty simple designs
keep telling yourself that.

Attached: giphy.gif (400x225, 1.79M)

This board’s ignorance on anime is truly astounding. People say some wacky shit.

You need to re-read my original post, guy.

>Anime re-uses a large portion of their animation assets

ANIMATION assets. As in the ANIMATION ITSELF. This is different from using a puppet rig. You can't throw a rig onto a document and say "animate". Each scene still has to be animated by people.

Only a few anime projects use simple designs in this day of age, most are complex hence why we jumped ship years ago.
Then New Looney Tunes Mark 2 fixed that and brought everything back to normal.

He obviously meant show not a film

Great. Ok. They still reuse more assets than an anime production. Tweening a pre built part is not the same as traditionally animating a unique movement. By your metric, both count as 1 animation, but they are clearly not an equal amount of effort or result.

Also the original post says
>Anime re-uses a large portion of their animation assets

That’s just a worse version of a shot from a show lmao

Unit 01 didn't look much different in the show. He just had less frames because giant robots are hard to animate.

So, the animes that have a more elaborated animation like One Punch Man and Attack on Titan, how much it costs to make 12 episodes of that? 3 million?

Those DC animated movies have a budget between 2 million to 5 million and they are only one hour and a half long. They are all animated by a Korean studio. Where does the extra cost come from? Just voice acting and character designing?

here's the show, then:
sakugabooru.com/data/18110ff6f0aaaa3ef2b665aa1e72222b.mp4
and for good measure:
sakugabooru.com/data/d7bc8e7f8e4b84eff4aaf065d776bd0c.mp4

Don’t focus on the number, OP is wrong.

I thinkj it's biased to use EVA considering they sacrificed a lot of quality and the fucking ending for the early episodes.

Now of days those DC movies only cost $500,000 due to budget cuts, also First Flight & Emerald Knights were animated in Japan.

Even the most stock soulless idolshit utilizes more complex designs than beanmouth. That’s been a strong suit of anime since the 70’s compared to us.

Even despite tweens, this one shot of Wander has a lot more original content in it that you cannot find in the other episodes than your average episode of anime.

Attached: Wander Tries to Sit Down.webm (500x282, 2.18M)

You don't really understand what "reusing animation assets" means

Attached: Goku vs 17.webm (576x432, 1.87M)

I looked it up and Korra really had a high budget (U$1,6 million per epi).

What was up with that? Was it just for one of the seasons? Why did it end up much more expensive than anything else?

Envious is not good for mental health

>CN reject.
For the love of Frank Thomas post real Disney.
sakugabooru.com/post/show/40964

1. Wander is a cherrypicked exception and you know this, what Craig did with puppets is as ambitious as what Genndy did with CGI
2. Any Sakuga shot disproves this
3. Can you quantify these numbers?
4. What exactly do you mean by reuse animation? Can you give relevant examples from an average anime production? (ie: not from decades ago, not a shonen series from Toei with hundreds of episodes)

It's fake, Korra only had a budget of $200,000-300,000 per episode for the Mir episodes for Books 1-3 while Book 4 was only $90,000 a episode.

$ 1.6 million means animated on 1s and 100% kept in the States.

Source?

No, you don’t know what you said. You didn’t say reuse animation (though i’ve gathered that’s what you meant) you said reuse animation ASSETS.

>Cherrypicked Toeishit from the cel era
That’s 3 for 3. Got a relevant example or should I counter with Hanna Barbera walk cycles?

>Even the most stock soulless idolshit utilizes more complex designs than beanmouth
complex character designs yes. the animation itself is what's simple. The characters rarely move and emote when speaking. CGI is employed to cut costs and when that fails there's just QUALITY. I mean just look at the latest season of one punch man where they could barely afford to actually animate the characters so they just use camera effects in place of inbetweens. Anime at it's apex looks great (not as good as western at it's apex) but the majority of it is just as lazy as beanmouth but disguising it with clever direction. and that's all Anime really has over western. Animation directors in japan actually supervise whereas here it's this psuedo collaborative effort that doesn't really work.

>another east vs west thread
Why does Yea Forums always take the bait?
Whether or not one medium has fluid animation or reuses assets or treats its staff better, anime will always succeed by the sheer virtue of having more variety in narrative and evolving past kiddy shit. Instead of fighting with one another about which cartoon from which country of origin is better, why not discuss how both mediums can adopt styles and trends in a meaningful way from one another as a means to propagate a better variety of content?

Attached: 1538626629033.webm (640x1138, 1.85M)

Read it on Toon Zone (now Anime Superhero as toons are now next to non-existence) years ago.

Anime uses alot of techniques that save budget, the characters only move when necessary. Anyone that knows the first thing about animation could tell you this.
Retarded thread for retards. Yea Forums shouldn't be allowed to discuss anime

A single anime scene has more animation and style than ten years of modern cartoon animation put together

youtube.com/watch?v=btVVFj8pM6w&t=12s

Attached: get used.png (738x737, 352K)

>Sakuga is the average shot of anime

You have serious trouble reading, my friend.

>4. What exactly do you mean by reuse animation?
attack on titan reuses several shots, one egregious one had reiner's armor after it had been destroyed. also panning shots. Also SoL shows rarely actually redraw their character anymore. it's almost always the same still close up and moving mouth with all emoting being stills. Also Cgi backgrounds.

A single shot of a Bob Clampett cartoon has more animation and style than 70 years of modern animation put together, including anime.

sakugabooru.com/post/show/56358

I think you don’t really understand what an average anime looks like in 2019 and you are skewed in perspective because the west prefers shonenshit which is animated rather poorly compared to a standard anime episode.

Anime average in 2019 is way more ambitious than anything but the peak of 2019 American animation on television. Every season you get a few of these “peak” shows that nothing America has done in a decade can even touch.

A 6/10 madhouse original of the season that everyone will forget about in a year is on par with Steven Universe.

>Insist on hugging the nuts of something your grand grand grand grand grand parent created a fuck zillion years ago because your present is so lack luster and poor in creativity

As expected of Yea Forums

Attached: easy mode.png (600x453, 179K)

Who are you quoting? Certainly isn’t me.

This isn’t 2003 anymore pal.

I can agree with backgrounds, they are a problem. You provided a single example from a single production, is that the average for the production? Is the production the average for anime?

I rarely watch SoL shows so won’t comment on that, though I doubt Kyoani is doing that too much.

This. What anime lacks in frame-by-frame animation, they make up for in directing. Whereas most cartoons are just basic shot-reverse shot and perpetual 3/4 view, anime utilizes its limitations in a way makes it interesting to look at.

Attached: 1535393515749.webm (1280x720, 584K)

Come on now, engage like an adult. All animation has worth, and we wont be able to have an honest conversation if you bait them like this, especially on THEIR board.

Imagine looking at this shit and think it is peak animation

It’s pretty peak puppetshit, but it’s still puppetshit.

>Book 4 was only $90,000 a episode.
No fucking way. Why don't we see more cartoons like that, then?

Like, one episode or "Arrow" costs 2,5 million dollars. It's enough to pay for a whole season of an animated serie.

He's right, though.

>character has no face for more complex animated parts
>WOW GLORIOUS JAPAN
fucking weebs.

>I think you don’t really understand what an average anime looks like in 2019
I do because I enjoy anime. the majority of it is still lazily animated and stomped gruesomely by TLA and the better parts of korra. speaking of steven universe, find me a scene as fluid as steven fusion from a modern tv anime from the last year. I'll wait.

youtube.com/watch?v=nHrIaExnO20

Motices how the basic principles of animation even goes into steven's face as opposed to it just disappearing?

You're right on one thing, anime is more ambitious, but that ambition masks the poor quality that anyone with a basic grasp on animation can understand

Ironically anime has become more kinetic and less picturesque in the last decade, coming closer to a western ideology of movement being more important than design, and the West has become more anime-like, separating high quality cuts and lesser cuts and looking more static.

The difference is anime is able to pull off more animation extremely well, while western cartoons look like early 70’s anime in terms of direction.

It’s very interesting.

Yes way, Book 4 was known for having a budget cut, Voltron:LD cost the same amount per episode as well.

>claim that anime has simple designs and is cheaper than American cartoons
>prove that false by showing example of a show with complex designs and animation
>that's not a fair comparison!!

Attached: 1547610716517.jpg (430x462, 21K)

In the west, cartoon is considered for kids, tween, teen. They can cut corner or make as much shitty animation as they like, the faggots will still eat them right up

Most niggers in the east who follows anime are tween, teen, young adult so the quality / standard they demand is abit higher

TLA was mostly mocked in Japan for looking like low quality shit. I personally love the series but animation is not it’s strong suit, especially compared to anime. Can’t speak for Korra because I love TLA too much to watch it.

That’s a great sakuga cut from Steven Universe, here’s an anime equivalent:
youtube.com/watch?v=0CJeDetA45Q

>inb4 cherrypick
You shot first
>inb4 but the character animation isn’t as fluid
Effects animation is still animation

>I rarely watch SoL shows so won’t comment on that
>I rarely watch the majority of anime but I'll hold the entire industry to the 1%
Christ here I thought I was talking to someone who understood animation. says it's best. Anime doesn't really animate very often, instead choosing neat little directing tricks. When you pick up on these tricks you see how shallow anime really is.

The point was that large portions of EVA outright weren't animated because of these early scenes. If your show has to forego animating it's ending and large chunks of later episodes to be on par with western animation your show is behind western animation.

It is an artistic choice

youtube.com/watch?v=0ZjuyFGk6bU

Let’s keep it modern and for television, friend. I’m on your side but it’s in good argumentation.

>U$1,5 billion
That sounds inflated
Assuming you meant "million(s)", then it's because the jap animators get paid pennies

Oops meant for this

>the majority of anime is SoL
Sorry pal, it’s not 2008 anymore. Action/Adventure/Comedy is the name of the game.

Or the desperate. Paying animators a livable wage doesn't mean there will an influx of shitty animators.

>livable wage
I wasn’t aware that all the animators were dead?

If they were desperate they wouldn’t go into this field. You’d have to be a brainlet to think that high skill/low reward is worth it if you aren’t passionate about anime.

>A single anime scene has more animation and style than ten years of modern cartoon animation put together

I haven't had the chance to post this image for 11 years, so I guess you have my thanks.

Attached: 1194303629757.gif (453x180, 1.59M)

>All that CGI
>filters to keep from having to actually color
>Those backgrounds
>cleverly hiding the lack of details in faces that aren't in a close up
>the actual series suffers from the same problems of stills and cgi
This is literally a trailer of the best moments of the show and it still manages to be emblematic of everything I said, proving me right. Violet Evergarden looks pretty and the direction is masterful. the animation however was trounced by the US in the early 2000s. I think that's the real tragedy of these east vs west threads. It's the argument that one is better than the other when both lack something the other has. The japs lack the tools and the means to actually animate but have a pride and culture around their animation that manages to make even the most crude animation look aestically pleasing. Meanwhile the west has the tools and means to make modern day masterpieces but has a culture based on efficiency and minmaxing.

>modern
>for television
perfect example
sakugabooru.com/post/show/74910

>checks this season
>only action are things continuing from other seasons
>the comedies are school SoL
>rest are basic SoL
>thus majority is still SoL
>even the action shows are awful

It's not, read Also... job.mynavi.jp/20/pc/search/corp211196/employment.html
Inbetween artists at this studio get paid $1654.41 (181,300 yen) a month, fare enough for a inbetween artist, not pennies in the slightest.

Nice cherrypick.
>comedy bad animation from Nanoha vs One of the most expressive cuts from ATLA

Based

None of what you said diminishes the quality of it, and I just grabbed the first thing that came to mind, seeing as good looking anime cuts are a dime a dozen every season.

You’re also pretending like that isn’t the peak 1% of Steven Universe, a show that is the peak 10% of American Television animation. This is just a few shots from the yearly Kyoani show. Heck, I could grab from anywhere. You want a Trigger show? Madhouse? Sunrise? Science Saru? Anything but Toeishit.

>All those stills and shaky cam
>despite being and intense scene genos' face pics a position and stays there
My god are anime fans literal children? "suck it in westernfags, anime has BRIGHT MOVING COLORS!!" Again, aesthetically pleasing. meh animation.

Shonenshitter doesn’t speak for me.

I don’t think you know what SoL is.

>seeing as good looking anime cuts are a dime a dozen every season
Yikes, to actually believe this is kinda sad. It shows that you really are style over substance. Sure the characters don't actually animate, sure there's so much bad CGi and camera fuckery to hide said poor animation the same way hollywood movies have to hide how they don't have fight choreographers, but it looks cool.

>You’re also pretending like that isn’t the peak 1% of Steven Universe
That's the thing, steven universe has a baseline of animation quality and at it's peak stomps every "sakuga" from tv anime for the last few years. then comes the realization that steven universe is bottom of the barrel western animation.

> want a Trigger show
I'd rather you didn't trigger is cancer animation personified. I think franxx is the first show by them since GL that didn't look like liquid ass for the majority of it's run Looks like they're back on course with being trash with promare though. The others aren meh

I thought that was Chinese sweatshops

>Niggers in Yea Forums pretend that their cartoons have background for some reason

Attached: eh2.png (900x665, 137K)

Why is Korra so hot?

Attached: 1441519497363.png (768x1960, 586K)

There is just so much wrong in this post I don’t know where to begin.

>yikes not really
No, yes really. Every season has sakuga far exceeding that fluid but not dynamic cut from SU. At way more prevalence than showcased in SU.

Steven Universe is better animated than most of the television cartoons up until the late 80’s, and is near the top of the game now. Only 88-2005~ competes.

This good cut is a dime a dozen for anime. Your dislike of frame modulation or effects animation means nothing. All you care about is frame count, when animation is far more than that.

The average moment of SU is below average anime.

>Trigger is shit
I actually agree, but if we’re talking about cuts instead of averages they always have a few heavy hitters.

In the west you have to pay all the western employees a living wage. Not any ordinary living wage, but one that will sustain them in the state of California, which should say a lot already.
Animators in japan definitely get underpaid, but Tokyo gets memed for being expensive even though it can be surprisingly affordable for a big city if you're not in the heart of it, and public transit makes it convenient to get around.

Also, Japan simply has had more time and practice at autistically finding a process that will save them the most money and time while still retaining quality control for the end product, even though it doesn't always works or just straight-up fails and looks horrible like some very cheap cgi shortcuts. As for the animators themselves, there's simply a larger pool of talent kept employed by tv anime. Even if an animator is working on a shitty show, at least they're still working and kept in practice and hopefully the next show they work on is better.
Their production methods have been shaped by several decades of desperation by stressed pds and directors frantically trying to keep the production together until they can get it out the door.

“Living wage”
Is anime animated by zombies?

youve never heard the term living wage?

I’ve heard the term, I disagree with the premise. Animators in Japan are living just fine. Overworked, but not on the street or whoring their wife out.

it's just convenient shorthand for 'not paid so poorly they're teetering on the edge of financial insecurity every day of their lives'

i doubt one episode costs that much desu

It is.
OP is lying, read this It's not.

I think it’s shorthand for “I want to do a dream job AND afford that second car”

“Production quality? Artistic/writing skills? Nah! As long as i’m living I don’t care :^)”

blue eyes, straight hair, dark skin but non-african facial features, some muscle tone but still has prominent curves. that is it.

You know, it's a sing of autism when you bring things up not related to the topic.

We do we gotta fight over Chinese and California cartoons all the time when they are all animated in Korea? It's OK to like both, it's OK if they touch!

Attached: hqdefault.jpg (480x360, 12K)

Anime isn't a cartoon. It's way above and beyond that....another medium entirely.

god its been years and my dick still gets rock hard thinking of korra

A LoK episode is more expensive than an episode of Game of Thrones?

You're incredibly fucking stupid if you think 130 grand is enough for an episode of a modern animated show. That might've been true in the 90s, but not now. I find it very telling you have absolutely no sources for any of your claims and cannot debunk claims made by show creators that state otherwise.

Also 1 million for plane trips per episode? Really? How dumb are you? You think the design department that had to keep making new characters and locations for every episode of the first season of ATLA got paid nothing or what?

i guess korra's animation wasnt half outsourced to chinese sweat shops

>By making it an inadvisable job economically, they disincentivize talentless phonies
That is literally the opposite of how any labor economy works.
Talented people would rather do anything else related to their talent, since that pays more, hence why japanese animation has been going down the drain faster than every chance you ever had of procreating.

No, Korra is only $200,000-300,000 a episode.
To be fare it's only for 11 minutes.

>design department
They get paid by the hour and that does not rack up a million, they also get paid less then McDonald's fry cooks as well plus Bryke did not go to China for every episode.

For Mako & Mark Hamill celebrities get paid a arm and a leg for voice acting, simple as that.

OP is lying, read this

big tiddy sheltered brown tomboy with blue eyes

The key is passion. Only the passionate stay. You can be talented but impassionate. It you’re passionate, you’re more likely to try your best to become skilled.

>Japanese Anime have pretty simple designs,
It is literally the opposite way round.

Yea.
But they are exceptions.