New movie aside, I heard that Ken Penders essentially, single-handedly over the course of a single phone call- ensured that Sonic SatAM never got a new episode after its last.
I gotta ask, what's his deal?
I've literally never heard a positive thing said about him and every once in a while he rears up again with art that, more or less, hasn't advanced in years.
So what the fuck's the deal?
Is there some comprehensive YouTube video on it because this is something I've heard about for years now.
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He is an asshole
No one cares about your youtube/e-celeb drama
>Ken Penders
>youtube/e-celeb drama
Thank you for outing yourself, zoomer.
I'm glad the freedom dykes are dead forever so Sega can focuse on best girls instead.
He doesn't have a YouTube channel nor is he rich enough to be warranted as an e-celeb.
What?
user...Sega hasn't given a fuck about blaze for years now... Nobody knows if she is from an alternate dimension or the future...
She's in a racing game that's more than you can say about Sally the lesbian princess.
Oh, you were comparing to Sally in terms of relevancy? Forget what I just posted then. Blaze is forever going to be more relevant than Sally, I was just stating that from a story perspective Blaze is really hard to include because of the "06/rush cannon" confusion. Sure she's in the racing game but that's not a mainline game unlike forces. I hope she can one day have an impact in a mainline game but as of right now she's in limbo.
There is so much more to unpack about this "man", but here's a quick rundown
Wait so he doesnt own sally or bunnie?
No, but he claims ownership over anything unique about them that he created. He cited in court that he owns the concept of "Knuckles wearing a hat" for example. And that's why one of SEGA's licensing mandates is that none of the Sonic characters are allowed to wear clothes or, if they already wear clothes, they cannot wear different outfits. That became a problem for Ian Flynn, a post-Penders writer, because he wasn't even allowed to write Sonic wearing scuba gear during an underwater adventure as a result of this mandate.
Is sega being retarded? Why not specify in the contract that even if they change clothes the characters still belong to them? Why be so draconian
Wait didnt knucx wear a hat in the ova
Yep. Ken probably knows. Ken probably don't care. Ken just want Knuckles with hat rights.
The problem here is that Penders' contract doesn't exist anymore. It got lost somehow.
>Is sega being retarded? Why not specify in the contract
Archie lost Penders' contract, which somehow means in a court of law that he has ownership of everything he created for them because they couldn't prove he was work-for-hire. SEGA didn't get involved and let Archie fight the legal battle. Archie lost, Penders won. Now SEGA can't let any of their characters wear hats.
Yeah, and the hat Penders gave Knuckles in the comic was the same hat he had previously worn in the OVA: Penders knew he didn't create the concept of "Knuckles with a hat", however, he banked on ARCHIE not knowing that Knuckles had worn a hat before in a previous piece of Sonic media. Archie didn't do their research and now Penders legally owns the concept of Knuckles wearing a hat.
Sure but I mean for new writers/artists, why not specify in their contracts that kind of shit.
Also why not let them have new hats they didnt wear before?
This is all very stupid
>legally owns the concept of Knuckles wearing a hat.
Copyright law is fucking retarded
>t.retard
>This is all very stupid
Imagine you're some 75 year-old judge and you're sitting in a courtroom for 8 hours listening to a fat autistic man screech about something called "Knuckles the Echidna" and why he should be the sole owner to that character wearing a hat.
You'd render a verdict as quickly as possible to get that obnoxious shit over with, too.
Still pissed to this day that Flynn couldn't finish up neither his pre-reboot run, nor getting Sonic Mega Drive released.
This is why Japanese companies don't like to license their IPs to Americans. Because we do shit like this with them.
Is there a currently ongoing sonic comic? Is it good?
IDW has a current one. It looks fine but I am way too old for StH comics at this point
twitter.com
>As promised, here's the drawing I did as requested for the winning Sonic fan who voted on election day.
I have no mouth and I must scream.
"Knuckles wearing a hat" is one of the sillier things that Penders argued for and won, but there were even more consequences.
SEGA had to mandate that none of their characters could have family members, mainly because Penders created so many family members for Sonic, Tails and Knuckles in the comics and won the rights to them in the lawsuit.
Sonic Boom poked fun at it by having a character that would be introduced as "Eggman's brother" immediately followed by an extended back and forth about how he's only LIKE a brother and not REALLY his brother, to drive home the fact that they aren't actual relations.
I think they also did a joke where Knuckles wore a dozen hats at the same time, because the mandate only said Knuckles couldn't wear "A hat" not "SEVERAL hats".
How can Penders copyright something that is already copyrighted?
I heard there are legal issues with the OVA before the Penders debacle. The OVA is owned by the studio that animated it (Studio Pierrot). Apparently Sega had a fit when the OVA made a cameo in the comic.
What a mess
But Boom was great and I miss it
twitter.com
>Here's a preview of Dr Zephyr as seen in THE STORM, which will be included in the initial release of THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES app. Dr Zephyr was recruited by the Royal Secret Service from the mysterious Cat Country to serve in its Science Division.
Never mind! Go back to the tickle porn!!
>How can Penders copyright something that is already copyrighted?
Penders owns all derivative works created by him for the license. So he cannot reference Knuckles the Echidna directly without permission from SEGA, but he can include Julie-Su the Echidna and mention that she's the ex-girlfriend of "a great Echidna guardian" etc.
>Is there a currently ongoing sonic comic?
Yes. The exact same creative team that worked on the Archie comic, but a different continuity and a different publisher (IDW).
>Is it good?
Nope!
It's kind of boring
Does anyone have a source for Penders canceling SatAM? I'd really like to read this shit, sounds jucy.
why does he look like nic cage in the kick ass movie
OP is confused. It wasn't SatAM he got cancelled. The head writer for SatAM was in talks to do a Sonic the Hedgehog animated movie in the 90s. Penders went over his head and contacted the exec and tried to cut the head writer off and deliver HIS pitch instead. The exec found Penders so awful and the pitch so horrible that he dropped the project entirely without even letting the SatAM writer give him his pitch.
It's hearsay, like so many things with Penders, but apparently the basic idea is that a guy who worked on the show was on the cusp of negotiating a deal to do a finale movie for the series, and was preparing for a final meeting with the SEGA licensing department to seal the deal.
For some ungodly reason, he involved Penders since he had worked on the comic.
The guy gets a call the next day. It's the SEGA licensing exec, FURIOUS. Penders went behind his back and tarded out all over them, telling SEGA they should pay them for the privilege of making a Sonic movie. The SEGA exec made it clear that people pay THEM to license Sonic.
Penders and his arrogant autism torpedoed the deal.
This was what Penders showed to actual, adult, seasoned professionals.
Holy shit, he actually does look like a fatter version of him, what the fuck?
This guy embodies everything bad about the sonic fanbase, what a fucking autist
Ken Penders is what would happen if a publisher gave Christian Chandler a job writing Sonic. It's why you don't hire autistic fans to write for the media they obsess over.
The best part is, he never fucking played a Sonic game.
Why are people allowed to criticise the upcoming Paramount movie when this shit exists?
The guy trusted Penders and Penders absolutely fucked him over. It's why you never, EVER trust autistic people. By nature, they lack empathy centers; they see themselves as the only living creatures in the world and cannot comprehend how their actions affect others. It's why they're uniformly such greedy, selfish assholes. Never trust an autist.
>he never fucking played a Sonic game
I warned you about secondaries bro. I told you, dog.
He doesn't give a shit about Sonic. He used the comic to create his own OCs.
I'm have autism, and I can not deny this.
Meant for that to be a response to
that person you were replying to is a fucking idiot but
>implying you need to be wealthy to be an e-celeb
>Chronicles
>Armageddon
How can a professional writer be so bad as to choose these stale cliche titles?
>How can a professional writer be so bad as to choose these stale cliche titles?
Penders also wrote licensed Star Trek comics.
>Sonic the Hedgehog
>Star Trek
Tell me Penders also wrote for Thomas the Tank Engine or Doctor Who and he'll be the Ultimate Autist.
fine by me. Satam was fanfiction trash anyway. That is not up for debate.
Unfortunately, there's no comprehensive list of Penders' works out there beyond what we know he did to Sonic and Star Trek. Here's what's from an archived version of his website, though:
>He has also written and illustrated the adventures of SONIC THE HEDGEHOG, KNUCKLES THE ECHIDNA and their friends for Archie Comics, leaving behind a body of work over the past decade unrivaled in the modern era of comics. In addition to his work for Archie Comics, Ken has written and illustrated stories for every major comics publisher including DC, Marvel, Image and Disney on such a diverse array of titles as STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION, DISNEY ADVENTURES, SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN, CAPTAIN ATOM, and GREEN HORNET among many others. He has also branched out into other media, producing children's activity books and creating graphics for CD-ROM games.
What the fuck did I just watch?!
Honestly, I haven't even read a Sonic comic in my life and I have only played a few of the games.
That said, why hasn't anyone tried to kill Penders? From what I've read this fucker has done a lot of damage to a profitable franchise, people have been killed for much less.
It already goes beyond sociopathy, this guy is that harmful.
He almost makes chris chan look sane. When you're on the verge of making chris chan look sane and normal, you know you're a garbage person of the highest autismo order
>DISNEY ADVENTURES
Hey, why hasn't Penders sued Disney yet for the rights to the stories he wrote? What could possibly be holding him back?
She was only from the future in 06. They've kept her consistant outside of that. Plus, she's playable in a game that just came out two days ago.
Penders likes to ape John Byrne
Because Disney probably didn't lost his contract in a fire, otherwise...
>I invented Mickey using cellphones! Disney can't have Mickey using cellphones!
The last half of that bio sounds like a polite way of saying he did shitty bit work after no one wanted to give him a full job.
Because sonicfag autists never come out of their basements or are functional enough to fire a gun.
Because Disney holds all the information of the people they hire.
And nobody messes with the mouse.
>Because sonicfag autists never come out of their basements or are functional enough to fire a gun.
Chris-chan beat up a Gamestop employee and tried to run him over with his car all because the guy wouldn't remove the Sonic Boom standee that had blue arms on it.
The most disturbed Sonic Autists may not use guns, but they're resourceful in their violence.
SatAM was 20 years ago. Move on.
Not that Penders isn't still a massive dick for fucking over a 20-year old comic, but come on.
Yet the Danny Phantom fandom was able to generate a fan autistic enough.
>SatAM was 20 years ago
25, actually.
Goes to show you how incompetent SEGA is, they could weaponize autism to get back at Penders if they much so desired.
Yeah and there hasn't been a new Darkstalkers game in 22 years, so maybe it's time to moved on from your Morrigan obsession, Boco you sperg.
Well there ya go. SatAM's time has passed. Let the cast rest in peace.
>(no really)
I wish I could erase this man from history.
That's indisputably fucking retarded. How can he own Knuckles wearing a hat if it's still the copyrighted character owned by Sega?
This is most likely the answer.
Sega can use Knuckles all they want because they own the character. But if they put a hat on him, they have to pay Penders a royalty.
The Boom writers were even more based than I realized.
He tried writing a comic for Image and promptly crossed it and Sonic over.
Bullshit. They just can't put a hat on him in a comic. He has no jurisdiction over games or cartoons.
Fucking murder Penders, SEGA, come on, you have the yakuza on your side. Or #metoo him. Ffs.
Considering that Sonic Chronicles was what set all this in motion, I wouldn't be surprised if he would try.
Holy shit I need this man's insanity to fuck over Hasbro, Jagex, EA and Ubisoft.
When was the last time you saw Knuckles wearing a hat?
Well he had a stance on the comic. He's never touched any of the other games, and Sega's legal team would rape him.
>
EA and Ubisoft I get, but why Hasbro and Jagex?
Why Hasbro?
Whilst I doubt he wrote for them, he did do covers for fanzines (?).
So if you ever wanted to see Penders draw non-Sonic stuff, you're in luck!
>SEGA's legal team
Boco, they haven't re-released Sonic 3 because of Michael Jackson. That's how much SEGA's legal team sucks.
Hm. Good point. That mixed with not giving a shit.
The only good sonic cartoon is ova
Holy shit. What was even the plot?
>Ken Penders cast: lower intelligence
>it's super effective on this user
>fanzines
I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but those Prima collector guides for Digimon and Pokémon were all officially licensed. Nintendo and Toei looked at Penders' art and gave it the green checkmark.
Apparently Mobius gets blown up by Robotnik.
Or something just as edgy.
I did not need to know that user.
I think I died a little on the inside.
Well, I'll be seeing that art in my nightmares, thanks user.
You can bully Boco all you want, but quit reminding me we'll never get another Darkstalkers, user. If we ever do, it'll be SFV-level FGC pandering, so they'd probably throw a nun alt on Felicia and leave poor Rikuo out until season 3 in favor of bringing in new monster parodies.
They can add who they want, just give me one more cute girl monster
>Prima collector guides
Beckett, not Prima, but still officially licensed. But also remember that even during the Dark Ages of the Archie Sonic comic, SEGA approved of every single issue. No matter how bad the art was or how nonsense the writing. Archie still had to run it past SEGA and SEGA approved every time.
Why? Wait, is this the guy that made Knuckles's species into a huge deal with tons of family members and then sued over it?
Don't forget how Ian wrote around having Uncle Chuck return in the reboot by making him "uncle to many".
Roboticization was already nightmarish. It didn't need help
>SatAM was 20 years ago. Move on.
That's not a good argument. There's a lot of past and old things that some people, to this day, still stick with them, and still await for its new content, sequels or re-incarnations. Going for your own logic, Sonic Mania and similar titles wouldn't exist, since they are sequels to old games, and thus, we should rather just "move on" (and by the way, that's how games like Lost World and Boom exists).
And by the way, Archie Sonic was abruptly cancelled, not ended normally, like in the plans, meaning that there was never any notice or plan before that Archie Sonic was soon or not about to move on.
>Wait, is this the guy that made Knuckles's species into a huge deal with tons of family members and then sued over it?
Yes.
TMNT is over thirty years old, people still love seeing it
Alright, alright, statement rescinded.
Sometimes I think I'm not up to par to do anything in the animation or comic industry, that even the lowest of the low would be better than me, but then I see things like this and I have hope again.
Didnt Penders get into trouble because of the Sonic crying cover? I thought they weren't checking much until then.
Yeah, but he didn't draw that cover. Though it was the straw that broke the camel's back and finally got SEGA to start really looking at the awful, horrendous, unbelievable shit Archie was publishing with the Sonic brandname attached to it.
i only know Darkstalkers because I liked BB Hood in MvC2
is it good? how does it play?
I love how sonic is the only one facing the reader, as if Penders is desperately trying to say "HAI KIDS, I WRITE TEH SANICS! I'M KEWL!"
Where can I find more of this "art"? I think I had some of these as kid.
could you post it?
By-the-by, the Powerpoint pitch is still up on Sonic Retro. It has some gems, but the best part has to be how Ken decided to show Sonic's recognition via a picture from Operation Sand Storm of a soldier helping a child wearing a Sonic shirt.
Well there's a long list of things Jagex and Hasbro fucked up, but I'll list the most important.
Jagex for being hypocrites who allowed for years on end an administrator/mod to freeze an official tournament with prizes. He was also stealing money both from saved credit cards and in-game cash from people' accounts. He was only stopped when the british police ran an investigation.
Jagex for destroying Ace of Spades (literally picked up a hammer and broke the hard drive it was on. The programmer found it broken to pieces.)
As a player it affected me how they ruined their own game in 2008 to combat real world trading/bots. Massive prudish hypocrites who "didn't want unfair advantages" but they allows pay2win players to go to free2play servers and sell their items at 5x the price to F2P players.
Self-sabotaging retards. The bar entry is far too low. That retarded stunt they did should have costed them the company, the same way it did the game Firefall.
Hasbro... their bullshit is weirdly better hidden, but they have quite some issues.
They buy like 100 IPs which they hand over to the executives and investors themselves to act as fanfiction writers to make a horribly badly written work and then blame it on everything but the kitchen sink.
They don't offer those IPs good advertising and good toys.
They even hire overly expensive talent just to boss them around and severely undermine their abilities, to the point the talent quits on their own.
They acquire multi-billion dollars worth of equipment and talented staff members(Boulder Media) only to treat them like slaves and idiots.
Ridiculous working hours
Executives acting as fanfiction writers/script editors/creative visions
The only IP they seem to treat properly is Transformers.
A faster Street Fighter.
Hey, you leave Hasbro alo--
>The only IP they seem to treat properly is Transformers.
Oh. Carry on.
I suppose you could try looking up Beckett resources, but I dunno how many were Ken's and how many were other people (though the Beckett covers look funky no matter what).
But if you want the guaranteed genuine Ken Penders experience, look up the Lara Su Chronicles
I know during Ian's run that Sonic couldn't really cry in the comic. For context, this scene is from Mobius 25 years later. Sonic's trapped in a timeline where Sally and Shadow have entered a political marriage, his kids from the previous timeline have been erased, Tails and that Knuckles girl are the only ones who remember stuff that happened, and everything for him is just generally fucked.
It plays a lot like Street Fighter Alpha/3, with a coat of horror paint. Fast rounds, smooth animations, relatively easy inputs, imaginative characters. I really liked 2/3, especially on the 360/PS3 Resurrection release.
No, that was one in a long list of new regulations Sega put on the comic after Penders sued them.
>Sonic Boom poked fun at it by having a character that would be introduced as "Eggman's brother" immediately followed by an extended back and forth about how he's only LIKE a brother and not REALLY his brother, to drive home the fact that they aren't actual relations.
>I think they also did a joke where Knuckles wore a dozen hats at the same time, because the mandate only said Knuckles couldn't wear "A hat" not "SEVERAL hats".
based
I think this creature , this mad man, this monster only managed to screw up Sega so hard because their lawyers are stuck in the pre-stone age, they were bad even for the stone age. They allowed Gearbox to get away with the Aliens Colonial Marines bullshit.
Hasbro would be harder to fuck up because they actually have some good lawyers that sue any attempt at copycatting in order to gain money.
But not as good as say Disney's lawyers.
Jagex is most likely a mosquito with no natural enemies, nobody went after them or else they would have been dead long time ago.
If you could sue smaller specific segments of a company then that's how you'd fuck them up, like say Hasbro Studios. Without the big daddy company stepping in.
That's really fucking stupid. It shouldn't matter what they're wearing, this is straight up abuse of copyright. Luckily, this only applies to the comic.
I thought the general rule was that he was allowed to cry, he just couldn't bawl like a baby while doing so, because that would have been "uncool".
>Sonic had kids
The fuck?
Hasbro..Hasbro is an interesting beast, they do their best to stay off legal trouble. If something has the slightest possibility of creating legal troubles, they won't use it. BUT engage them, and you are fucked, Harmony Gold bit learned their lesson the hard way. Penders is nothing compared to HG.
They probably could re-sue penders if they wanted and win, but they don't give a shit.
Its 25 years later. He had them with Sally.
>Luckily, this only applies to the comic.
That's not how copyright works, user. He was able to sue Bioware for borrowing his concepts in their video game. The medium doesn't matter, only the hats.
Ha, fuck Harmony Gold.
I mean, Sally is a type, but I'd like to see Bunnie and Antoine and their relationship again.
This never happens with AOSTH
He never actually got around to suing Bioware/EA. Or if he did, they torched his ass and he was left with nothing. As far as we know.
Probably because it's still made today.
... and so is Archie Sonic until 2017? And IDW Sonic?
That's literally a gold mining company operating in South Africa... what could they have possibly had to fight over with a toy company?
...you mean like Sonic?
People get nostaligc for the 80s version and it STILL gets merchandise. Why can't Sonic fans be nostalgic for the world of the cartoon and the comic that carried them through the Sonic drought from 3&K to Adventure?
Nevermind. Copyright is screwed.
He also thinks the games don't matter and his comics are what made the character popular.
From what I remember, I think the case got thrown out because he filed it too long after the game came out and there was nothing else they could do about it. That's what I've heard anyway.
Jetfire of course.
>An exclusive release for San Diego Comic-Con 2013, this is a redeco and retool of the 2011 mold of the G.I. Joe Skystriker meant to represent Jetfire. The retool adds Jetfire's distinctive boosters and features an opening cockpit which can seat a figure. The boosters also mount the Skystriker's original vertical tail fins as a second set of horizontal fins.
>On July 22, 2013, Harmony Gold, owner of the rights to the Robotech franchise and U.S. claimant to the Macross rights, filed a copyright infringement suit against Hasbro. In the filing, Harmony Gold argued that the release somehow infringed upon the intellectual property of the Veritech, but noted that "damages are difficult to ascertain". They demanded that Hasbro recall all Jetfires that had been sold, that all Jetfires (including the recalled ones) be either destroyed or handed over to Harmony Gold, and that Hasbro turn over all profits relating to the sales; this was to happen in addition to payment for all actual damages to Harmony Gold (despite Harmony Gold itself not knowing how much the actual damages were) and all punitive assessments assigned against Hasbro.
>Subsequently, an order was filed on September 23rd, 2013, to dismiss the case with prejudice, implying that Harmony Gold and Hasbro have reached a settlement. Although confirmation of a settlement, much less details thereof, has not been revealed, the fact that the case was dismissed with prejudice means that Harmony Gold cannot sue over the Jetfire issue again. By early October, the set was made available on Hasbro Toy Shop, though the set sold out quickly.
Hasbro made a Jetfire toy rather similar but legally distinct from the Macross toy, Harmony Gold thought they could sue Hasbro for a ridiculous amount.
Harmony Gold is no longer able to do that again.
Probably because Sega had no hand in their creation? And outside of American nobody really knows or cares what the fuck it is?
Why should Sega focus on something only a small audience of fans like?
So they're named after his Underground siblings?
Satam was good
>they do their best to stay off legal trouble.
Technically direct micromanagement over a talent studio not owned by the company is against the law. Basically what they always do.
It's even more objectively illegal if let's say the employer(a vice president of the company) becomes an employee to work directly for the contracted studio.
But how much micromanagement and what kind of micromanagement is still subjective. To a degree. Which Hasbro has long passed.
Calm down A-Log
So we all know that the Freedom Fighters are an increasingly-forgotten relic from a time where there were only three recurring characters in the franchise
But have the characters that SEGA's created since rendered them completely redundant?
I think he was referring to this one, it's what comes up when searching for "Sonic crying comic".
Yes. He met them once in a crossover. Then the reboot happened and the multiverse was erased from existence.
No, it really wasn't.
>AoStH was better.
I agree.
>Why hasn't anyone tried to kill Penders?
They made my nigga Tails completely useless
As he should be.
>people have been killed for much less.
People have been smiled at and ignored for far greater criminal acts.
The world isn't America, user. Britfags had Fleetway and Japan doesn't give a damn about Sonic in general
Can't really blame them. This was before Tails was officially established as the smart kid. If they knew that, they would have definitely added that to his character.
everyone whose name wasn't Sonic, Sally or Uncle Chuck was made useless
Depends on how you feel Forces/the IDW comic is/was executed.
They're less relics of the very few characters at the beginning and more relics of the Sonic series' localization during the pre-Dreamcast years.
Wasn't that implied in the manuals (considering the story goes that Tails upgraded Sonic's plane)?
Then again, neither SATAM nor AOSTH really picked up on it.
This has absolutely nothing to do with youtube or e-celebs, zoomer
That's the one.
At least the Freedom Fighters are safe in SEGA's vault.
>Implying Ken won't use them anyway.
Not the cartoon ones.
>Probably because Sega had no hand in their creation?
SEGA was never forbidden to interrupt and advise. Archie Sonic didn't had the hand of SEGA because SEGA itself has decided to incompetently leave the comics series entirely to Archie and leave to Penders to ruin it gradually over the years. It took several years for SEGA to snap out and take the comic series out of Penders's hand by force.
>And outside of American nobody really knows or cares what the fuck it is?
>Why should Sega focus on something only a small audience of fans like?
The Sonic franchise in general is exactly like that, though, not just the comics and cartoons. The majority of Japan sees no interest on Sonic ever since the birth of the franchise, and there's only a niche there. Even so, SEGA still insists to release Sonic games in Japan.
The argument of small audience of fans doesn't apply to Sonic, especially when Archie Sonic has lasted for quite a long time (and only ended because it was abruptly ended), and IDW Sonic is continuing (dragging, actually).
Technically, any character who hasn't been created by Penders can be considered safe and sound of Penders, including Ian's characters and others.
*abruptly cancelled
I’m a simple person and I just wish Eggman had Scratch and Grounder as his two minions instead of Rejects. I’m sure they’re fine but, Robot Mole and Chicken.
Doesn't hat-Knuckles from the OVA predate the comic?
Ken Penders is basically the comic equivalent to William Utermohlen. But instead of having Alzheimers, he thought making things look ugly would make them better. He's a complete asshole and a horrible person to work with. I'm not even a Sonic fan either. He can't fucking draw something that looks appealing.
I don't know why they won't use them anymore. They are far cooler than what we've been stuck with.
The comic predates the OVA by three years
There is a very small contingent of fans if SatAM in Japan. Mostly for the girls.
And I'm not disparaging Fleetway, if anything I want more of that too.
TMNT got its Turtles Forever, why can't Sonic aside from Japanese autism?
Sega "does not want to promote older incarnations of the franchise". Thats why the FF aren't in IDW to begin with.
I quite like Orbot and Cubot as Robotnik's lackeys. It took Sega much, much too long to give him someone to converse with (and those cronies he had in Sonic X were just crap). Having said that, having Scratch and Grounder as well would be fucking great.
That was one of the nicer aspects about late-stage Archie: they just had the comic serve as a giant kitchen sink from all across the franchise. Scratch, Grounder and Coconuts all worked for Breezey, for example. No chance of that now.
Regardless of whatever Sonic characters you want to see to come back from the comics and the cartoons, you can bet your ass that SEGA will reject it instantly.
That's the dumbest shit I've read today
My problem with Orbot and Cubot is that they are too goofy and really shaves off any edge Eggman can have. If we ever got an Adventure-esque plot they would completely destroy the mood.
I never want another Adventure/Shadow/S06 plot coming anywhere near the franchise honestly. It was embarrassing and misguided that they ever attempted such things in the first place.
tbf Adventure 1's story wasn't TOO bad
You're implying that Ken cares.
I rather have that than the garbage we have now. At least it had substance.
You know, thinking back on it, Sally was a really terrible character. Hell SatAM feels like it was made as its own thing before Sonic was shoved into it at the last second.
Maybe a terrible Sonic character, but I think she was okay as her own thing
Creepy waifu fans tho
The US manuals skipped over almost everything regarding the storyline of the games. All it said about Tails was that he likes to follow Sonic around.
Ironically, AoStH actually did seem to pick up on it by having an episode where Tails shows that he's a natural mechanic. They even slipped in an Eggman insult to Robotnik a couple of times.
This is why AoStH is the most based Sonic cartoon and why its fans are better adjusted to Sonic than SatAM fans.
Sonic X is still better minus Amy. Fuck Amy and whoever came up with her.
>He's an Amy hater.
Yeah, I think it's safe to say you have shit taste or a Sallyfag. Both are interchangeable.
Both characters are complete shit, anybody who came after Knuckles has no reason to even exist.
Neither AoStH or SatAM are cartoons that are heavily based on Sonic's games at the time, and this doesn't dictate the quality of them. They only present little of elements from the games, and much more of new made-up interpretations and content.
Quit attempting to incite flamewar, and just learn to like both.
Amy predates Knuckles.
>Sonic CD. Release date: 23 September 1993
>Sonic the Hedgehog 3. Release date: 2 February 1994
Could anyone elaborate on Harmony Gold? Thanks a ton in advance
Chris Chan pepper sprayed a GameStop employee and his mom helped him run over the owner of “the Game Place” dumbass
I'm a Tails fag.
The first thing that came to my mind when I saw the Sonic X promos was "Who's the retarded pink blob, his sister? Sonic is for Tails only. I hope that pink vapid bitch doesn't get between them."
But why couldn't they have Uncle Chuck and Snivley be relatives anymore?
What, had you just not played Sonic Adventure?
>and his mom helped him run over the owner of “the Game Place” dumbass
This has to be bullshit
Amy has been around since the Classic games.
I heard in some of the Spanish dubs of the 80s TV shows that they just flat out made Tails a girl. Some translation error, I guess.
The adventure series were emulating the shonen manga/anime of early '00s.
That's impressive, given that it came out in 99.
Yeah. Named Vivi instead of Miles too.
What, when they went after Hasbro?
Sounds like a stripper name. Still, a girl Tails would be pretty cute.
>tougher than leather
Nice
I think Tikal and her tribe not only represented the Mayans but possibly the Ainu as well.
Meathead Knuckles is the best.
Dude you're not alone on this one. Back in '92 there was a Detroit News article on Chun-Li and other female video game protagonists that also said Sonic 2 was coming soon with Tails. I thought Tails was female until the Archie Sonic Mini-series said he was a boy.
For me Tails is a girl in Sonic 2. That little faggot is too feminine and good looking to not be a girl. His red mouth, smaller height, chest fluff, bright color palette, etc was just too much.
user I...
Echidnas have been knowing the way for 25 years.
Plus his happy and bored/neutral expressions looked a bit too passive, just like a female.
Sonic on the other hand looked pissed off whenever you activated his idle animations.
HAH
>Sonic X is still better
Chris
Zoom zoom!
Fem Tails: Best girl?
namefags were a mistake
It's funny seeing relatively normal looking Sonic and Tails standing next to what's clearly a shitty OC.
What's with people that make OCs and fucking glasses? Either rectangular frames or those glasses that sit on the nose that no one actually uses.
>Likes to ape John Byrne
So he is a pedo too, right?
I thought she was from a parallel world where she took the role of Sonic.
So Ken Penders is essentially what would have happened to CWC if CWC was actually hired by Archie?
At this point, the alternate dimension thing is completely meaningless to her character.
Shame. Blaze is one of the few post 2000 Sonic characters I actually like.
>The medium doesn't matter, only the hats.
Fucking hats, amirite?
Wait Bioware made a Sonic game?
For the DS
It was shit
It was shit, but the waifu was worth the pain.
>But have the characters that SEGA's created since rendered them completely redundant?
Pretty much.
>Sassy but smart leader girl and love interest for Sonic?
Sally/Amy
>Rude, standoffish jerk who thinks he is Sonic's rival?
Antoine/Shadow
>Super strong power house
Bunnie/Knuckles
>Ace mechanic, inventor and pilot
Rotor/Tails
Every unique role that the FF filled has been taken by actual SEGA game characters. They served a purpose at a time when the brand was so young there weren't enough characters to fill out a cast, but that was 25 years ago. We really don't need the FF anymore and, hey, SEGA agrees 100%. They're gone forever.
Thank you
This is what satAM fags dont seem to understand.
And she will never be seen again.
Can we at least get another Mean Bean Machine?
You lied, I started it and Im enjoying it a lot.
>He can't fucking draw something that looks appealing.
judgment time
Julie-Su was retroactively a placeholder until Rouge's debut in '01
>bottom right
Penders designed movie sonic?
How the fuck can one's art degrade so drastically?
Laziness for one thing
Is there any good quality rip for this show? or there's only 420p rips?
Not to mention the Freedom Fighters are dated stereotypes.
in the thread where i got it from, penders insisted on drawing ugly furry when he could've been doing so-so/OK human art. it's like being an OK swimmer but you insist on doing sumo.
i think he's suing them, so no.
I can draw her anytime I please, so, I'm not too heartbroken, but I feel ya.
Eh. I feel no sadness over her loss. Chronicles was crap.
Chronicles is essentially the spark that started the Pendering. Everything comes down to that game being so bad, SEGA completely disowned it.
denial only deepens the pain, my brother.
And there are SEGA characters that also make others SEGA redundant, in vice-versa ways. Mighty invalidates Knuckles, Nack invalidates Rouge, Tails invalidates Wave, Ray invalidates Tails, Jet invalidates Shadow, Shadow invalidates Blaze, Cream invalidates Charmy, and so on. If you are willing to go for this way, then we might as well do this with the SEGA characters themselves.
No. Pointing out who's redundant doesn't help on anything, and it only serves to hide the fact you actually just dislike the characters, especially as long SEGA continues to pumps out more and more new characters to a cast that already has been more than enough ever since the Adventure games, or even, before that, rather than opting to recycle the old and obscure characters, and bring them a chance to both shine and be playable, not for just once, but for also sometimes, when it's their turn.
Your comparisons here are not comprehensive and logical. Amy is not the smart leader type and Sally has stopped being a love interest for Sonic for a long time, Shadow has always implied to care about more of other things than just being Sonic's rival while Antoine has maturated and has been in the married status, Knuckles and Bunnie aren't anything alike at all other than both being strong, and Rotor and Tails both specialize and lean on specific respective sub-fields of technology that interest them and both have their own different perks and traits.
The fact that you chooses to be quite narrow-minded and vague here, rather than believing not just theses but that also many other characters can attain unique traits and more perks that makes them feel more separated and different from the others, as well feel more diverse on their acting and behavior, says surely something about you.
Sonic as a whole is dated. It's a 90's mascot animal character with radical, cool and cheesy attitude that dates back to the 90's.
Bad argument.
No, really. She was just Julie Su 2.0. We lost nothing of importance.
Eh, I admit. in many ways, you aren't wrong.
Your non-canon characters are never going to appear again.
Anyway:
>Mighty invalidates Knuckles, Nack invalidates Rouge, Tails invalidates Wave, Ray invalidates Tails, Jet invalidates Shadow, Shadow invalidates Blaze, Cream invalidates Charmy
That's reaching.
>Amy is not the smart leader type
Forces begs to differ.
Bunnie is more like Omega because of her mechanical parts. Tails does make Rotor redundant despite how much you try to divide it. Antoine doesn't really have a role filled. Unless you count Ray who is considered a little timid or Infinite who apparently used a sword before before the main story of Forces started and are both canines.
>Sonic as a whole is dated. It's a 90's mascot animal character with radical, cool and cheesy attitude that dates back to the 90's.
The Freedom Fighters are more dated. Sally is generic girl power, Bunnie is the southern belle, Antoine is the french coward. The only one who isn't too deep into it is Rotor.
The Freedom Fighters literally serve no purpose.
Her I do miss.
Cuz I ship her with Shadow.
Not bad taste, friend. They'd be a decent match.
It's about as reaching as your own logic, mate.
I mean, you compared Antonie (who is basically the Luigi of the Freedom Fighters) with friggin' Shadow.
>Forces begs to differ.
Amy wasn't the leader in Forces, Knuckles was. Amy only got moved into that role in the IDW comic, presumably because the writers are more effective at using characters than Sega themselves.
And here's the thing, technically speaking, you're right about them being outdated. But it's not because of them having roles that are fulfilled by the game cast since the game cast never had the dynamic the Freedom Fighters had until Forces (and even then, it's only an overlap in terms of basic concept).
Instead, the Freedom Fighters are a relic of the original direction the west marketed Sonic as. Pretty much all three cartoons had Sonic as part of a freedom fighter group (whether it's SATAM's knothole, Sonic Underground's sibling gang even AOSTH had a brief mention of Sonic and Tails being Freedom Fighters in one of the episodes). Even the UK Sonic the Comic had the idea of Sonic being part of a group of Freedom Fighters even if the members themselves were totally different.
In general, western media had the idea of Sonic fighting against a tyrannical Eggman long before Forces did it, and it was only when the IDW comic happened that characters like Amy actually fit the dynamics you're comparing better.
And in that regard, I'm okay with the Freedom Fighters being retired since, well, we've finally left behind that chapter of Sonic. This isn't Archie where elements from the cartoons are fair play. It's mostly post-Adventure stuff now.
>Sally has stopped being a love interest for Sonic for a long time
>Antoine has maturated and has been in the married status
You should be using past tense to refer to these characters because they are over and gone.
Antoine always struck me as interesting because he gradually filled out the role of Sonic's foil really well.
Sonic is all about freedom, Antoine is all about duty.
Sonic is a carefree bon vivant, Antoine is a soldier.
Sonic fears commitment, Antoine is a family man.
They were an interesting contrast in a way that Shadow and Knuckles aren't.
I still have a few of these and never noticed he was the artist even though I was reading/collecting the sonic comics at the same time. I just remembered thinking the covers were horrible but my love of digimon outweighed it
>Pepper Spray is a gun now
Fucking retard, learn to read. It's amazing how much salt people have on Sonic but shit like fucking Danny Phantom characters gets autists to shoot up a mall before the blue blur fucking can. Just accept bad shit happens, but it does not always relate to "autism". It's like the buzzword form of saying Nigger to blame on everything.
Chris has good taste though, you'd unironicly get the Citizen Kane of Sonic movies
Ken did for sure draw Star Trek comics, and has shown off art of it on his twitter, and off hand I think he might have written some.
>i think he's suing them, so no.
Please, please PLEASE confirm this. I need the laugh if it's true.
What I love about this is that for years we didn't even have context for what happened. We just knew Ben Hurst let Ken in on his dealing with Sega because he wanted to be nice, then one day Ben talks to Sega's rep (who until then had been really chill) and is basically told to go fuck himself. Then he finds out Ken had gone behind his back and did something that really pissed them off.
Years later the clip surfaces and we finally understand why Sega went from "excited about your ideas" to "FUCK OFF" overnight.
>New movie aside, I heard that Ken Penders essentially, single-handedly over the course of a single phone call- ensured that Sonic SatAM never got a new episode after its last.
Was it just a phone call? I thought Penders actually scheduled and went to a meeting with SEGA after Ben Hurst got them interested in a DTV movie wrapping up the show by presenting himself as being Ben's representative with the end result being that Penders got SEGA pissed enough that they called the whole thing off.
Yeah, he actually went and met with SoA reps and showed them his gay little trailer
The Sonic Boom cartoon was pretty god tier
>preview
>initial release
>this was posted yesterday
Wait, he's still actually working on it? He announced Lara-Su Chronicles almost 8 years ago, how has he gone this long still pulling the "it'll be out, aaaany day now" schtick? Does he even have any supporters anymore?
I believe he does still have supporters, though odds are that they're just casuals who aren't in tune with the whole of the autistic mess that is Penders.
I don't know what he does with his time, but it's probably not productive.
He's been dragging his feet because he never actually intended to make it. He announced it as a ploy to scare Archie into acknowledging his ownership of the characters he created, and thus leveraging that into getting royalties from Archie to continue using them.
He never counted on:
1. Archie just shoving his characters into a pit and never using them again because in his own mind his creations rival Sonic and Tails in importance and he couldn't conceive that the comic could continue without them
2. Archie being willing to take him to court over this.
3. Actually winning the lawsuit and being given legal ownership of his creations after Archie had already stopped using them.
The whole thing blew up in Archie's face but it also backfired on Ken, because he now has his characters but in order to actually make money off of this (the entire reason he did this in the first place) he actually has to create something with them instead of sitting back and letting Archie send him a check every month. I don't know why he's still pretending he's going to eventually release something, maybe just to save face?
Yes
>the last one
wish I had a higher resolution screenshot on me but its real
>twitter.com
Penders DID have a work for hire contract, and it was not lost. The problem was that the original was destroyed in a flood and only a photocopy remained. American contract laws have been updated to account for photocopies to count as originals but this particular judge stupidly ruled in favor of Penders. Had he gotten any other judge it likely would have gone differently
Archie then, stupidly, did NOT dispute his copyright claims with the copyright office when he registered them.
The also made Archie lose the lisence and effectively ended his chance at any future checks as well
I will do it. I have nothing to live for.
I will avenge Sonic the Hedgehog
Chris has actual brain development issues and a weird internet anti-fandom that fucked him up.
Penders is an ostensibly functional adult who is just like this out of arrogance. Penders is WAY worse
when trump dies he will go to hell that's just a fact
Penders is absolutely not a Sonic fan though.
>Chris gives us this but with Amy
based.
>saved the US economy
>secured borders
>denuclearized North Korea
>neutered Iran
>withdrew troops form Syria
>highest employment in history
>stellar trade deals
>return of Christian values and morality
Yes but he said mean things about Mexicans so ORANGE MAN BAD and he'll go to hell
I'm surprised how many people took this obvious bait. Kudos to you.
He probably does have some supporters somewhere but the whole lawsuit cost him quite a bit. By the end of it even people who had been on his side were turning on him. Before his forums closed down, his own fans were responding to his preview images for Lara-Su with "Ken we like you but that looks like horeshit"
Technically Knuckles would invalidate Mighty because Mighty came first.
This is like saying I stopped being a Sonic fan because AoSTH or Underground was the only "new" content from Sonic past S3K and it ended before Adventure 1. I was stuck playing S3K because it was fucking great as is, am I the only person that actually keeps replaying something and don't need something new every hour just to cope?
Hell the next Sonic game I had after S3K was SA2B. I never once even heard of the comics until Mega Collection on Gamecube. Why does this point in time matter as much as other medias do? I watched Sonic X and I have no regrets to want to watch it again, I moved on.
wooooooow
Those would be very impressive achievements if any of them had actually happened.
jesus how horrifying
Just because Clinton News Network doesn't report it doesn't mean it didn't happen, retard
It's so dumb that this happened at all. Anywhere you work, you sign something that says everything you make on company time belongs to the company, meaning anything you doodle or write on a slow day can be taken from you and claimed by the company.
That's one jacked up face.
you know what was weird, it was the huge change from SK3 to adventure. It was like we had a huge wackie world filled with animals and animal people and one round guy who physically couldnt exist to a real life mix with people like it was always like that from the beginning. There was no real transition from Sonic 3 to adventure it was just "plop here is sonic now!" I blame Penders of course him and the sonic team really fucked up sonic.
the contract got destroyed. Probably in a fire Penders started.
Amazing how in any costume Blaze is still flat as a board.
> Danny Phantom characters gets autists to shoot up a mall before the blue blur fucking can
you know blaze is a fine character to have in the sonic series. I mean having a speedy character that isn't a hedgehog is great and is female and isnt an annoying stalker. Just wish they would allow other characters to have a Super Form when they use the chaos emeralds rather than just sonic shadow and silver.
Every Fucking Time.
HOW SHIT A WRITER KEN PENDERS WAS: EPISODE 41
>While writing all the Echidna recolor characters, you might remember the story of the first Guardian, which came out in the late 90's
>For those who don't know, Knuckles is the last in a long line of Guardians of the Floating Island
>The first Guardian was a scientist named Edmund, who constantly sought to curtail but also redeem his evil brother
>He was killed trying to stop his nefarious brother Dimitri, but Dimitri succumbs to his hubris
>To most readers this is just a bit trivia, just a couple of names picked out of a hat
Did you know that the daytime soap opera All My Children was running at the same time as this storyline? Shortly before the first guardian storyline was written, All My Children ran a storyline about two brothers, one good and one nefarious. GUESS WHAT THE GOOD BROTHER'S NAME WAS? GUESS WHAT THE NEFARIOUS BROTHER'S NAME WAS?
>Ken Penders: Man, writing is hard.... wait, this soap opera is pretty intense! I bet I could just steal this storyline, add some echidna stuff, and little kids won't even notice that I didn't even change the names!
Is Amy still a stalker? I thought boom Amy became the Amy that's in modern sonic games.
you should look into Slott's abortion of spider-man. This fuck tries to use game of thrones/walking dead shock deaths to get readers only to fuck up the lore even more. And Bendis? Well now he is on Batman and lets just say, its not gonna be pretty.
Honestly I dont think the was a chance to establish that. because after Sonic Forces there hasn't been any dialogue discussing that relationship. Boom Amy went from insufferable stalker to less insufferable feminist who got out feminist by a moronic knuckles.
Mania brought that back.
>Sonic as a whole is dated.
No, because his design concept is timeless. Mickey fucking Mouse is a icon forever, like the Simpsons, or Minecraft.
Dated would mean no appeal. Tell me you're not a nigger that seriously think Sonic is actually dead. He's not, just a clusterfuck of quality control.
Latinofag here.The reason why spanish Tails was made a girl was due a mistake due to the spanish wording of his name. So time for a small spanish class:
In spanish, a lot of words have a "assigned gender" to the way they are said and written. For example, the spanish word for "Chair" is "Silla" which has an assigned feminine sound: so when we say "The Chair" we say "La Silla"; "La" being a word used to mostly describe feminine things.
Tails' name was translated to "Colitas" (Little Tails) which also uses the feminine assignation of "La" (Or "Las" in this case, as its plural) so the translator probably got confused and assumed Tails was a girl.
When Sonic X came around however, they translated his name to "Colas" but, while that word also uses the feminine wording, the translators wised up and kept him a guy. By Sonic Boom, they entirely gave up in translating names and just left them in English.
Fun Fact: In AOSTH the latinoamerican VA of Tails was also the voice actress who did the voice of Tweety Bird from Looney Tunes, another character who's gender has always been confused by people.
>assigned gender
is this the reason so many trannies flip out? They take issue with this but cant here in the states because english is so fucking specific in each word that they can only complain about pro nouns?
You also forgot the part where Penders REAL plan was Archie keeping the characters in exchange of royalties for EVERY ISSUE WITH THEM and become a CREATIVE CONSULTANT FOR THE SERIES AND MAKE HIS 25 YEARS LATER BULLSHIT THE ONE TRUE CANON ENDING.
He was so delusional that his characters were really crucial to the comic that he was sure Archie'd cave in to his incredibly petty and retarded demands.
Mania did a lot of things right. Now I just wish Sega would stick it to Ken Penders so hard that he lives in the streets.
I fucking knew I was gonna have at least one tranny joke for explaining this.
In Chile, "Cola" is also slang for queer
Is there any other characters that got Pendered besides Fiona and Scrouge that anybody gives a shit about?
Shard because he was tied with a specific Metal Sonic story Penders made.
That hasn't been a thing for years tho.
We Chileans have a tendency to butched the spanish language so much only for them drop slangs and phrasings on the drop of a hat years later. We are kinda stupid like that.
He's always had a bizarrely inflated sense of importance. That's actually what cost him his job at Archie- Ian Flynn had been hired as the new head writer and Penders was going to be relegated to backup stories. Penders threatened to quit, assuming himself to be so crucial to the comic that Archie would change their minds, fire Flynn, and make Penders the head writer. Archie told him not to let the door hit him on the way out.
He's still showing a lot of that in the last few years. He's still under the assumption that not only is he the reason the Sonic comic was successful for so long, but that the comic was on par with games as far as widespread appeal and popularity. He still assumes that most Sonic fans are also Sonic comic fans, and only became fans of the Sonic comic because of him, ergo most Sonic fans are Ken Penders fans. The guy's nuts.
PENDERS STARTED THE FI-IREEEE
Another goldie: When IDW announced they had obtained the rights to Sonic, the first thing Ken did was a series of callout posts on Twitter telling IDW about some "payments they owed him" for working on some Star Trek comics.
Nevermind the fact they were not in charge of Star Trek comics in the era he drew for them, nor the fact he just brought it JUST when the Sonic acquisition had happened.
The Archie Sonic comic has been the ONLY thing in his life that had given him even a shard of success and he continues to desperately cling to it like a tick on a dog.
This is, fetish content aside, really fucking ugly.
I’ve never been that into Sonic but this thread was an incredible read holy fuck I can’t believe this Penders shit actually happened. This needs to be a movie
>this needs to be a movie
Wait till November my dude
did penders lose his hands in a tragic accident then return to drawing with fucked up wooden hands
An Oscar bait type starring a fat Nic Cage
It's strange, his early work on Sonic isn't bad- not great, but definitely serviceable. At some point he started drawing Sonic characters with this bizarre over-detailing that completely defeats the point of the simplistic design and it's absolutely horrid.
Even worse, he somehow conned his way into being allowed to do artwork for the SatAM DVD set despite having nothing to do with the show. Apparently this was unrelated to his other SatAM con where he tricked Ben Hurst into letting him pitch his movie to Sega.
>What's with people that make OCs and fucking glasses? Either rectangular frames or those glasses that sit on the nose that no one actually uses.
While there is a LOT of that among OC designs, in this instance it's because that version of Juli-Su is supposed to be old. Hence the granny glasses.
Yeah, Penders is a weirdly fascinating subject.
You lie. If you were a true autist you would lack the awareness of it. You have awareness of sucking.
Penders is a massive faggot.
>It's strange, his early work on Sonic isn't bad- not great, but definitely serviceable
That's because his early stuff was him basically copying Dave Manak. Once he started finding his own legs, that's when he started evolving towards the grotesque style.
This guy was an official sonic artist.
THIS GUY WAS AN OFFICIAL SONIC ARTIST.
Jesus fuckin christ
This actually makes me feel better about my own art and makes me want to draw again.
Penders is an insane lunatic who represents the most depraved of sonic "fans" (he never played the games). However, I am going to add to that list.
Source: twitter.com
>Main Kampf
Oh like Ken even knew who wrote that before people called him on it
>gotta rape fast
Yeah at some point he went from drawing noodly limbs like Sonic usually has to drawing detailed musculature. And it only got worse.
Though looking at it now, his art seems to be a precursor for the movie design...
what if someone on twitter tells him how the Sonic movie design looks like his by the limbs and body type
would he bee dumb enough to try and fight them then
>someone on twitter
isn't this exactly how the whole "sue bioware" got started?
He was only eight years old so there was an excuse in their defence, unlike sonic forces...
If Chris is good at one thing, it's his taste in porn artists.
Trump is the reason we have the highest rates of immigration right now. He's a neocon jew at best.
Too bad that didn't stop Nintendo from giving fucking Illuminiation the Mario IP
Chris is actually pretty alright in the third season
Metarex Saga in general is pretty kino as fuck, too bad no one notices it because the first two seasons of Sonic X are kinda shit
I still have the biggest soft spot for the Sonic Adventure games.
They're the games that established/build upon the character's personalities, gave Amy a great redesign, hell they gave SONIC one of the most iconic designs in video game history, and gave us Best Girl Rouge.
I can't hate them no matter how I try
Would've fared better if he didn't regress back as a kid physically.
In the IDW comic she still has a crush but she's definitely not a stalker, to the point that she actually tells sonic she's fine with him just running around the world looking for adventure.
Funny part is that sonic was actually pretty surprised and responded basically with "y-you can follow if you want, Baka" , but she rejected it.
I'd say she's a better character now.
Funny thing is that OC in particular actually looks TAME compared to a lot of the other crap OCs Archie had shit out over the years
I'm pretty sure Ken has gone on record as stating that, were he ever rehired, he'd just retcon everything that happened after he left and continue from there.
We must accept the cool guy sonic and damsel Chris pairing they kept shilling would look peculiar if Sonic was tiny. I do still wonder if the strange romantic undertones was intentional.
oh dear god you are right!
Sonic X was better anyways.
It's eh. Flynn consistently falls short on how to create OCs and his own lore (although, we can't disregard difficulty of doing so under mandates), but he's just as excellent at writing existing characters as ever.
The latest issue seems to be getting kind of somewhere.
Personally, I like current state more than Nu252.
>Dr Zephyr was recruited by the Royal Secret Service from the mysterious Cat Country to serve in its Science Division.
Who, what, literally who?
Imagine creating a character and then through legal fuckery losing the right to put a hat on them. I dunno if I'd be angry or baffled at that outcome.
>Just accept bad shit happens, but it does not always relate to "autism".
The Sandy Hook shooter's autism was a major factor in his shooting up an entire kindergarten. Sorry, but autistic people have a mental condition and that condition often leads to them committing acts of violence.
>Is Amy still a stalker?
Ever since the games started being written by Americans and not Japanese people, Amy lost all her "SONIC SONIC SONIC I LOVE YOU SONIIIIIIIIC" shit and began to develop actual personality and motivations. Her affection for Sonic is still present, but it is no longer than end all be all of her character.
Still sucks though.
Of course. Female characters always suck.
He might've been an artist at one point, but you can tell that man has NEVER been a graphic designer
Jesus fucking christ why would you put the dark blue text on a dark blue background? WITHOUT A FUCKING DROP-SHADOW OR ANYTHING
WHAT THE FUCK
You know what fucking terrifies me about this art?
You can tell Penders put some real heart and soul into it. He really tried.
And while I don't agree with the assessment, I can absolutely put myself in his shoes, looking at that art, and imagine him going "Yep, this picture is done. This is a good picture that I have drawn"
It's terrifying to me that an artist with decades of work can convince himself of something like that.
Is this evidence that Sonic contributes to the rise of autism?
Basically this. If you don't like the FF and don't want them there, just say it, don't hide behind silly arguments. There's nothing wrong with hating those characters, just be honest about it.
>Is this evidence that Sonic contributes to the rise of autism?
Between Christian W. Chandler, Ken Penders and DeviantArt in general, I think we have all the evidence we need. Now, as for WHY so many autistic people are attracted specifically to Sonic the Hedgehog like a goddamn magnet, I'll never understand. What is it about Sonic among all other things that autistic people find so pathologically irresistible? And Thomas the Tank Engine, too, for that matter?
>Mario, Zelda, Mega Man, and Street Fighter - Great games, terrible cartoons
>Sonic, Earthworm Jim - terrible games, great cartoons
Sonic is fast and cocky and has freedom from other people in spite of his millions of friends.
His artwork was never good. His 'human' art looks as amateurish and lacking in basic understanding of anatomy and form as his Sonic art.
Reminder that Ken Penders is a literal madman who wanted to insert kill me topics of sex into the Sonic the Hedgehog comic book.
>Now, as for WHY so many autistic people are attracted specifically to Sonic the Hedgehog like a goddamn magnet, I'll never understand. What is it about Sonic among all other things that autistic people find so pathologically irresistible? And Thomas the Tank Engine, too, for that matter?
And not high functioning or even moderately functioning autists, either. The Sonic fanbase is populated entirely by the "indistinguishable from debilitating retardation and down's syndrome" tier of low functioning the autists. The kind that have to be watched 24/7 or they might eat their own shit and then shoot up a kindergarten.
>Earthworm Jim - terrible games
No.
Shut up, Boco.
Double Dragon & Mortal Kombat - Terrible games, terrible cartoons.
>Now, as for WHY so many autistic people are attracted specifically to Sonic the Hedgehog like a goddamn magnet, I'll never understand. What is it about Sonic among all other things that autistic people find so pathologically irresistible?
Kids with autism (and adults with autism) like characters that all look the same with only tiny variations between them. Also, primary colors, 1-dimensional characters with only one or two character traits, and bright, primary colors.
You just described the horse show. But since they have a similarly turbo-autistic fandom, I guess it makes sense.
>Continously defended a 16 year old losing her virginity to a 20 year old man in a Sonic comic
>This got him trending on Twitter
>Literally every Sonic fan from every niche of the franchise is united against his bullshit
>Even his most diehard fans were against him
>Despite that, he kept going and digging deeper and deeper over several days
>Despite that, he still, to this day, hasn't apologized or recanted a single thing he said
His arrogance is inspiring, I'll give him that
I'd be pissed. If i want my character to wear a sombrero, i better be allowed to do so.
Sidenote, I miss that OVA hat.
Sega losing the right to let Knuckles wear a hat isn't HAT unprecedented.
There was a time when Marvel got in legal trouble with Disney (long before the buyout) and legally lost the right to let Howard the Duck walk around without pants.
Yes, the horse show has a massive autistic adult audience.
Those heavily autistic, militant retards on the internet that are obsessed with Sonic? That's him. People like that don't apologize.
I wonder if some of the people who tell others to get over the Archie characters and setting are still hoping that the star wars extended universe will return.
Sonic, pic related
In Thomas the Tank Engine's case, it's been suggested that the fact that not a lot (relatively) moves on screen, that the characters' expressions were typically fixed shot-to shot with only the eyes moving, and aforementioned bright colors/simple variations making up the cast's bodies made the series attractive to autists.
The study of Penders grows more interesting as time goes on. I'm left wondering what could have been if that contract was never burned. I thing of that shitty Sonic RPG on the 3DS and how it would be a bitch slap to Ken if it had gotten a sequel.
This man truly derailed the fun western side of Sonic and that is something to document the hell out of.
>Whisper and Tangle included to make up for dropping a lot of the Archie girls
They're cute as shit, but I can't drop my pronghorn sisters and dork chinchilla that easily.
Has there ever been a collection of reactions from Japanese Sonic fans regarding the horrible, hideous, ungodly, TERRIBLE American Sonic cartoons and comics? Do they know about our wretched Sonic stuff? I'd really like to see what they think, since Japanese Sonic media never seems to produce anything even a fraction as horrendous as things like the Archie Sonic comic, DiC Sonic cartoons or just... whatever the fuck the American Sonic fanbase shits out on DeviantArt on an hourly basis.
There were reactions from Japanese Sonic fans when the trailer for the new movie came out and they were seemingly caught off guard as to just how ugly, unrecognizable as Sonic and overall unprofessional looking it was. Like they had not anticipated anything that bad. But for American Sonic fans, we took it in stride because that's the only sort of Sonic media we've been producing since, like, 1994. Do the Japanese know how bad our Sonic stuff really is?
>think that Lara Su is just a joke name given for his character, as a play on “Mary Sue”
>it’s real
I...thought it was a joke.
Does this guy have that little self awareness? Oh my god.
Really feels like this is BS. Why the need to put human in quote marks? Don't they look human to you?
It likely has difficulty penetrating the Japanese market, as there's next to no appeal and Japan has its own output (albeit much, much smaller) of Sonic-related merch.
>Do the Japanese know how bad our Sonic stuff really is?
I remember there was some bewilderment from Japanese Sonic fans on gaming forums when the Sonic Mega Collection came out, because both the US and Japanese editions had the Archie Comics cover gallery as a bonus feature. Since this was early 2000s, it was the first time most Japanese Sonic fans had ever even been made aware that there was an ongoing American Sonic the Hedgehog comic. I remember many of them marveling that it existed at all, while a lot of them were ragging on how AWFUL most of those covers were. Others were confused at who all the characters were, since most of the covers consisted of "Sonic w/ weird original character" without any other game character in sight.
It was an insult. You dope.
You know what's weird? When the first game came out, SEGA had an internal bible they gave to licensors detailing how Sonic should be portrayed and spelling out his origin: he was a normal hedgehog who became friends with the benevolent Dr. Kintobor who gave Sonic his shoes and watched him turn blue on his supersonic treadmill, until his machine to eradicate evil blew up and turned him into Robotnik. This was also in the original promo comic.
There's a clause at the beginning of the bible that specifically says licensors can ADD to the story, but no one is allowed to contradict the information within. So why was SEGA so hands-off and allowed Archie to change the story completely? It makes no sense.
He's being an /ic/ boarder and showing off his art knowledge. His humans aren't even 7/10, but the contrast between Penders' human art and his furry art is still strong enough that it's obvious Penders should have stuck with humans for improvement instead of OC furries from a video game series.
>only an idiot would wear a fedora
My sides, this shits gold
He's a fucking autwalker user.
At the time, they wanted Sonic to succeed and let America do whatever they wanted with him. The Dreamcast era was when they started enforcing an International canon, making everybody adopt the Adventure redesigns and forcing Eggman as the villain's name. Then Penders went nuts and SEGA had to tighten the leash further.
No clue if he's being serious or not or he's just too anti-penders for what he did that his previous work gets a bad review for it.
Sure hope he was just joking because if he cites JoJo or Baki as examples of realistic posture and/or anatomy, there would be so much laughter.
Sonic debuted in an era where games had few, if any, narrative features. Sega encouraged localisation teams to alter the context of the story as they saw fit to maximise marketability, because who cares, right? This meant you had a good half-dozen origins and status quos for "Sonic the Hedgehog" in the west, whereas in Japan he'd always been running around on Earth (specifically, "South Island").
This meant that Sega trying to about-face in '99 and have everything conform to the Japanese approach was a massive culture shock. The damage from their original "lol whatever" approach produced a goddamn Gordian knot.
Well, I know all the DiC cartoons have been dubbed in Japanese, though I can't find any recordings of it. Some fans are aware of the characters because I've seen Japanese fanart of the SatAM cast [spoilers]doujins too[/spoilers]. So, I'd say they probably just don't care. If they were surprised, it's probably because they don't pay attention to what the western branch does or they don't care about Sonic.
no, because Sonic fans usually only like Sonic and nothing else. Star Wars is too "adult" for most Sonic fans.
Because nobody gives a shit about "lol so wacky" cartoon, it's fucking worse than mario cartoons.
Kintobor stuff was AMERICAN bible, japanise one had sonic being reincarnation of supersonic jet pilot.
Better have edge than careless mario clone that is SLW or it's hack.
There are very few Japanese Sonic fans. Probably because Japanese Sonic isn't very good.
>Well, I know all the DiC cartoons have been dubbed in Japanese, though I can't find any recordings of it
Japanese Wikipedia says they never aired in Japan. Where'd you get info that they were dubbed but no evidence of any broadcast recordings ever surfacing?
It really was, but I plowed through it for the character interactions and story. Wouldn't recommend doing the same, but I did have fun being allowed to make Sonic into a truly snarky jerkass, and the sideplot with Amy trying to make Sonic jealous over a fake boyfriend she was lying about throughout the game was great.
>There are very few Japanese Sonic fans. Probably because Japanese Sonic isn't very good.
Japanese Sonic gave us all the Sonic 1-3&K and CD games as well as the OVAs.
American Sonic gave us Ken Penders comics and the Underground cartoon.
I think Japan wins.
>Japanese Sonic media never seems to produce anything even a fraction as horrendous as things like the Archie Sonic comic, DiC Sonic cartoons or just
Sonic X is the worst cartoon ever created, so that's just plain wrong.
>Well, I know all the DiC cartoons have been dubbed in Japanese.
>AOSTH in Japanese.
Oh, Christ.
The OVAs are for toddlers, though. Japan also gave us all those shitty games made after Sonic & Knuckles, some of which are among the worst games ever created.
The west gave us Sonic Mania, the best Sonic game.
I think the US wins.
Sonic X is incredibly mediocre and tedious, but it's not the worst thing ever put under the brand's banner. I'm quite glad it's been consigned to the dustbin, though.
Huh, I could've sworn on the Wiki that I've seen a Japanese voice actor listed for SatAM and AOSTH Sonic under the foreign voice actor part of their character pages. Maybe a trick of the eyes. Opps.
If I were in prison and I had the choice between watching Sonic X and static, I'd choose the static.
A fine choice.
It WAS on there a few years ago and then it got taken down. It was likely trolling/vandalism.
>Chris-Chan
>Beating up anybody
The fat fuck couldn’t even beat paper cut outs, let alone a Game Stop employee. He peppersprayed the poor bastard.
This is so hideous I feel it drains the beauty of all things around it..
>He peppersprayed the poor bastard.
Don't forget the part where he had his mom run him over with her car. And the courts let CWC off the hook without any consequences "because he's autistic and didn't know any better!"
We need a cure for autism. Maybe lace every copy of the next Sonic game with anthrax. That should thin them out by 80%.
Wait, no, I don't understand....
If he can draw humsnd really well, to the point he looks like a pro, why is he obsessed with drawing hideous animal characters no one likes?!
I don't understand!
Who would impose that hell on themselves?!
>>
>The guy trusted Penders and Penders absolutely fucked him over. It's why you never, EVER trust autistic people. By nature, they lack empathy centers; they see themselves as the only living creatures in the world and cannot comprehend how their actions affect others. It's why they're uniformly such greedy, selfish assholes. Never trust an autist.
Didn't you post something like this about the Tress McNiel stalker?
>They acquire multi-billion dollars worth of equipment and talented staff members(Boulder Media) only to treat them like slaves and idiots.
>Ridiculous working hours
>Executives acting as fanfiction writers/script editors/creative visions
I can already tell you're full of shit and its mainly about the horse show isn't it?
>we
Speak for yourself you fucking retard.
America has never produced a single piece of Sonic media that wasn't embarrassing and awful. (and no, Mania was made by Australians, not Americans, and Sonic 2 was made in California, but by Japanese people).
So much hyperbole and misinformation in this thread that it's making my head spin.
That was a different person, the owner of the comic and game store Chris was banned from for being a sperging pain in the ass.
Go home, Penders.
>America has never produced a single piece of Sonic media that wasn't embarrassing and awful.
Mania, AoSTH, and post-reboot Archie.
>Mania was made by Australians
Australia is a western country.
How about we talk about Sega not knowing what the fuck to do with Sonic? Or why not the fact that the Japs don't even care for Sonic, but he still has a substantial following in the west even after all the failed games and general shit?
Maybe if you didn't wank the Japanese so hard you'd gain some perspective.
autism
noun
au·tism|\ˈȯ-ˌti-zəm\
Definition ofautism
:a variabledevelopmental disorder that appears by age three and is characterized especially by difficulties in forming and maintaining social relationships, by impairment of the ability to communicate verbally or nonverbally, and by repetitive behavior patterns and restricted interests and activities… the chief diagnostic signs ofautismare social isolation, lack of eye contact, poor language capacity and absence of empathy …— Vilayanur S. Ramachandran et al.
—called alsoautistic disorder
>yfw you realize you're autistic
I have watched an hour long doc on this guy, none of this shit is fake
>>AOSTH dubbed in Japanese
I want to see this
Read the new comics. It's confirmed she comes from an Alternate Dimension and Silver comes from a potential future. They're only linked in 06 which was retconned in the same game
I'll tell you what it is.
The answer lies right within CWC, for CWC has managed to materialize the very formula that captivates autists by merging two already existing and highly attractive formulas into one.
This element being known as "Sonichu".
You see, most of Sonics autistic fanbase probably grew/got into Pokémon, often being fan of both interchangeably, the thing that Sonic has over Pikachu is that he talks, while Pikachu can be very expressive, it fails to properly assert itself as its own thing the way Sonic does, that's because after all Pikachu is a follower, not the leader (its trainer, exept in spin-offs where ash isn't around),
Unlike Sonic, who's "90's cool dude! Fast & Free!" character personality + always being portrayed as the reliable optimistic leader who always fixes problems by simply running and rolling very fast (same reason why most conflict resolving through fisting it hard characters are liked) between his friends makes autist's wet themselves at the idea of either having a hero figure like that as a friend or self-inserting as him.
In other words, Sonic is build and marketed as this idol who ticks most autists approval check boxes, combining it with Pikachu one can see what they want is:
A powerful and flashy problem solving character through very basic and simple deeds that they understand and would understand them since it has the perceived ability of making friends easily therefore tolerant with an optimistic and energetic attitude that never lets them down when they're having a bad day in the real world has them looking up to it as an idol to the point of obsession.
Also, he's blue, a color which is simply irresistible to most of them, something in common with Thomas the meme engine for that very same reason.
I've seen Jap porn of Mina Mongoose and Bunnie
Oh I forgot add:
Also, its an animal and furries, frigging furries man.
Knux wears hats in sonic channel art though
also the hiking boots are much better than his usual lego sneakers
Unironcally yeah. He JK Rowling'd that a 25 year old Skunk fucked Sally when she was 14 or some shit
Starline will never compare to the true top fan I miss her bros.
I don't care about the relationship stuff, but Antoine should wear jacket and boots, doesn't feel right otherwise
>And that's why one of SEGA's licensing mandates is that none of the Sonic characters are allowed to wear clothes or, if they already wear clothes, they cannot wear different outfits. That became a problem for Ian Flynn, a post-Penders writer, because he wasn't even allowed to write Sonic wearing scuba gear during an underwater adventure as a result of this mandate.
What the fuck?
I mean, why post here if you think like this?
SoJ is run by senile fossils
God damn it Ian, the bubble shield powerup exists and gives sonic air. Play the games you hack
I would love it if he just made a comic called knuckles in a hat and no one could do shit about it
Probably thought the audience wouldn't get it.
For some reason, in most adaptations from popular game series, they always tend to forget certain key power ups.
Given Sega's connections to the japanese Yakuza, why not just have one of them pay Ken a visit?
Silver could do it...
It was Wiki vandalism; none of the DiC Sonic shows ever actually aired in Japan.
Skip Darkstalkers/Vampire, it's shit. Nightwarriors/Vampire Hunter and Darkstalkers 3/Vampire Savior and The Dark Tower are GOLD.
>Wanting to fug Freckle's mom due to a childhood crush on Angela Lansbury
Feels wierd...
That ain't Sonic Underground.
Do Bunnie and Antoine HAVE to be a relationship in every appearance now just because the Archie comics paired them together?
He's an asshole.
No? What makes you say that? Of course they can also act and show up separately.
I was gonna say that there's probably a reason considering that he remembered the Air Necklace, but it turns out the item they used was a Not-Air Necklace (though Rouge did use an Air Necklace in a different arc) so I'm not sure what to think.
what game?
Good Lord..this makes even Chris-chan look legitimate
Team Sonic Racing.
>OP has the word "YouTube" in it
>"LOL ECELEB SHIT FEK OFF OUTTA HERE KEKEKEKEKEK"
commit not alive
petition to have Ken Penders publicly executed plz
>CWC is aware of The Buzz on Maggie
I'm suddenly unnerved by the possibility of Chris having been a regular poster in all those Flyday threads.
Tails was always the Smart Kid.
The problem is that nobody who made video game cartoons ever read the lore in the manuals, so details like that were often skipped.
The localized manuals didn't even have any lore. That all got dropped by SEGA of America and usually replaced with a vague mention of "Stop Robotnik from turning animals into robots".
Sonic 2's manual in Japan had a detailed description of how Tails first met Sonic (which Sonic Adventure partially retold in one flashback scene) and bonded with him over Sonic's airplane. The US manual instead acts like Tails has always been with Sonic for no reason beyond hero-worship.
And in Sonic 3's Japan manual, Knuckles thinks the Death Egg crashing on the island is a dragon's egg from a prophecy, and Eggman uses that to trick him into attacking Sonic. All the US version has is a vague mention of Robotnik tricking Knuckles into working for him.
Yeah, that was a recurring problem.
It probably reached its most ridiculous with Knuckles' Chaotix. That one got mangled beyond recognition.
>filename
lol
even from how blurry it is I can tell this is a poor ass transfer judging by Sonic's nose
It's truly a shame he's gone and never coming back.
Just because he's a knowing jab at shitty fan characters doesn't make him any less terrible than a shitty fan character.
I honestly way prefer the later art, Sonic such a hothead that I can’t imagine him showing that much emotion, even when he’s beaten down that much.
Also he just looks ugly as sin in the unfinished panels.
This. I enjoy the abuse he took though.
Eh, it’s not too terrible. If he had refined his style over the years, he could’ve been at least a 7/10 backup artist at best.
But Sonic Autism ruins everything.
>That Scourge's Ultimate Harem story.
It's so stupid, it's good.
Weren’t Sonic 2-3K made in America because the Japanese staff hated the Sega of Japan? Last I checked they only made 1 and CD... the weakest ones.
Also Sega of Japan never did a good thing in their entire existence that didn’t need the help of America.
Sonic literally wouldn’t be as big as he is if it weren’t for Sega of America’s advertising strategy and bailing out the Japan division from their own stupidity.
For fucks sake the genesis didn’t even do that well in Japan.
The one where he fucks Bunnie? Man, has there ever been such a blatant Gary Stu? I almost have to give points for the balls of it all. But it would first have to be self-aware.
Jesus Christ what the fuck why doesn't Sega just do whatever they want? It's their shit. Are they afraid of a lawsuit from some nobody that much?
All I know, is that this video of these roodypoos trying to narrate it is the only thing you ever need from that story.
youtube.com
Reading that sentence makes me understand why people made fun of the old sonic comics so much.
This is interesting to look at. He's good at human figures, but when he tries to apply his same skills to cartoony animals he applies them 1 to 1, exactly like an autist would, without understanding what makes cartoony figures appealing. It's very uncanny valley, like looking at early CGI of humans.
Shouldn't Penders' claim only apply to the specific hat he had Knuckles wear and not to any hat ever?
>Weren’t Sonic 2-3K made in America because the Japanese staff hated the Sega of Japan?
They were made in the US, but by Japanese staff who flew in to California from Japan and then flew back when they were done. Americans actually had nothing to do with those games outside of providing offices for the flown in Japanese talent to use.
>SoJ is so shitty that the staff had to come to America just finish their games
>Both games end up being 100x better than anything ever made in Japan
Kinda proves my point.
The only Sonic game actually made by American people was Spinball, which Japan made quite clear on the box.
Well, Spinball is the best sonic game, so I guess America wins again.
>The only Sonic game actually made by American people was Spinball, which Japan made quite clear on the box.
We ALMOST got an American-made Sonic game based on the SatAM cartoon for the Saturn in which... it would be a stealth game requiring Sonic to move really slowly from one hiding spot to the next, thus defeating the entire point of a Sonic game.
Yeah, Americans aren't allowed to make Sonic games for a very, VERY good reason.
Sonic 2 was partially an American production. Naka moved to the US for that project after he got sick of Sega of Japan. Apparently the US/JP sides didn't work together too well though.
Spinball was made by the US side of the team when Naka went on to make Sonic 3 with the Japanese team.
Then there was the utter trash fire that was Sonic X-treme which was being developed by Americans. The long delay and cancellation marked Sonic's steep decline.
All of the best Sonic media has been made by the Japanese. The Genesis trilogy, Sonic CD, the Sonic OVAs, and yeah, as bad as you may think Sonic X was, it was HUGELY popular to the point where a third season was commissioned by 4Kids to meet the demand for more of it in the US.
Americans may LIKE Sonic more than the Japanese, but Americans don't GET Sonic like the Japanese do. At least, not in any meaningful way that produced good Sonic games and cartoons.
Anyway, enjoy that Hollywood Sonic movie coming in February. And never forget it was made by AMERICANS.
>Americans don't GET Sonic like the Japanese do
So them "getting" Sonic means making 06 and Forces?
What about Sonic Mania? I know it's not exactly American, but it was made by Westerners.
This one?
youtu.be
To add to this, Sonic CD was made by the Japanese staff that got left behind when Naka moved to the US. It was made at the same time as Sonic 2 and could be seen as an alternate S2.
Sonic X-Treme went rotten due to the team's inexperience with 3D games before then and numerous jumps to various platforms and engines during production. Yuji Naka had the right call for Sonic Team to make the first 3D Sonic game, if Sonic X-Treme came out with the circumstances surrounding it at the time, Sonic would've died then and there.
>What about Sonic Mania? I know it's not exactly American, but it was made by Westerners.
We're talking Americans, not "Westerners". Stop trying to take credit for what a bunch of Australians created, you fat sack of burger trash.
Calm the fuck down jap purist, I'm just saying that the Japanese aren't the only people in the world who understand Sonic. And even then they had plenty of lapses in judgement. Need I remind you, 06 and ShTH were made by the Japanese.
Naka got back to Sonic too late to save it and the Saturn in the west. Sonic Adventure was originally going to be a Saturn game(some screenshots exist) but it was scrapped and the project was moved to the Dreamcast. The 3D mode in Jam are remnants of the original version.
Imagine if the N64 never got a mainline Mario game, that's what the Saturn was like. A lot of people were waiting for a Sonic game to release before buying a console, and the no-show led a large number of what were previously Sega fans to go for Playstation instead.
The Saturn did actually have a really good library though, if you had access to Japan-only games that is.
He is going by the "Any publicity is good publicity" kind of deal. He doesn't care people are responding negatively, as long as they ARE responding.
He is just desperate to stay relevant when it comes to Sonic because that's the only success he ever had.
Nobody remembers Ken Penders for the stuff he did with humans. The only small shard of popularity he ever got was as "that guy who drew Sonic the Hedgehog comics"
He had burned bridges and failed in every other comic venture he has done. Even Image Comics in the hay day of their "We'll just give entire books to whatever shows up at our door" attitude only gave him a single issue of his human OCs before cancelling it after bombing spectacularly. (Which Ken still refuses to admit, calling it "an acclaimed best selling series" despite literally having 1 issue).
With bridges burned, all he can really do is bank on the few fans he has that follow him because of his shitty echidna OCs, so he insists in drawing them despite being much capable of doing something better.
>Yeah, Americans aren't allowed to make Sonic games for a very, VERY good reason.
Neither are japaneses, for great reasons, since they have the audacity to force fishing, shooting, werewolf, treasure-hunting, excessive drama and romanticism, massive leaning to edginess and darkness, and other contrasting stuff to Sonic, while always leaving the philosophy of momentum and physics to the side.
Your logic doesn't work, and your clear bias over the americans is unnecessary, especially when the latest products of Sonic made by the japaneses haven't been favorable and benefiting to the Sonic franchise. A game revolved around the universe and the content of Archie Sonic sounds like a great concept to execute, so as long the gameplay, OF COURSE, is defined and focused first and foremost to be enjoyable and consistent, with physics and momentum and many other gameplay features from the Genesis games ingrained in it.
Ah.Tojyo
I think the Japanese-produced vs American-produced discussion kind of lost sight of the original point, which was whether Sonic is more successful in Japan than in America. Apparently he's not hugely popular there, at least not compared to the US. We produce the worst Sonic shit but have the biggest Sonic consumer base.
Sakura Wars, Yakuza, and Vocaloid are more popular Japanese Sega franchises
Shit like this is the reason the Sonic movie baffles me. SoJ is notoriously strict about how Sonic is depicted, for years they pushed mandates on the comic, demanded that different iterations of Sonic never reference each other (i.e. Archie got in trouble when an artist snuck in Sonic the Comic characters in one issue), etc.
Then you get the Sonic movie where they clearly didn't give a shit and just let them do whatever, including that awful design. Sega's been distancing themselves from it and making sure people know that they had nothing to do with any of this but I mean, they still approved it. They still let this happen.
It's not really surprising. Sonic was basically tailor-made to appeal to the west, hence why he has such a blatant Mickey Mouse/Felix design and his primary colors are red, white and blue. There really isn't much about him that appeals to Japanese audiences, at least not on the level that he appeals to American audiences.
Sega's definitely complicit, they just don't want the blame after seeing how poorly everyone reacted to the trailer.
With Hollywood movies, it's a different story Movie studios write MUCH bigger checks and the Japanese IP owners are willing to look the other way as a result.
Remember that Toho approved the design for the 1998 Godzilla. Tristar said "this is your Godzilla and here is your check" and they bowed in agreement and cashed the check as fast as possible, despite loathing everything about that Godzilla design.
Sega likely did the same shit with this Sonic movie. As long as the money is good, wtf do they care?
Wasn't 3&k was made to prove that japan side of sega is still better?
Wasn't SOJ the side that trashed the company in general because they can't handle Americans marketing to and knowing America better in general than them when it came to sales and profits?
I really wonder if a Sonic game on Saturn could hack it. The 3D was a bitch and a half to implement and extremely limited besides. I really wonder if it could have handled 3D Sonic.
I guess they really needed the money
Saturn was hard to program for but some devs showed some really impressive use of the hardware. Here's Shenmue's tech demo:
youtu.be
>SoA makes SEGA into a household name in America
>Lead them to victory over Nintendo
>SoJ gets pissed
>SoJ spoils deals with Sony and SGI, leading to Playstation and N64 respectively
>SoA begins to flounder, desperately trying to create a Sonic game to ssve the Saturn
>SoJ cockblocks them at every turn because baka gaijin piggu
>Ignore their company bleeding out because "Well it sells to our small island nation and that's all that matters!"
>Dreamcast is too little too late and DOA
>SoA essentially dies
>SoJ is turned into a third party publisher
>None of the top brass feel any regret or face any justice
They fucked everything up in the name of racism and pride, and never got any comeuppance or felt any regret.
Although it was difficult to program for, the Saturn did have Daytona games on it, and there is a Saturn ROM named Sonic Z-Treme that runs 30fps levels on the Saturn.
The 3D areas seem pretty small, though. I guess if it was a small area with tasks to accomplish like Sonic World or Mario 64 it could work.
Honestly, it might just be for the best to let Japan create the Sonic content and Americans consume it. The Japanese may not LIKE Sonic but they know how to MAKE Sonic. Meanwhile, the Americans don't know how to MAKE Sonic but they sure do LIKE Sonic. We're symbiotic.
You left out the part where SoJ announced the aturn on the same day SoA announced the 32X for no other reason than to undercut and sabotage SoA and destroy them. Basically a case of cutting off your nose to spite your own face.
>The Japanese may not LIKE Sonic but they know how to MAKE Sonic.
youtu.be
>The Japanese may not LIKE Sonic but they know how to MAKE Sonic.
Sonic 4
Sonic Forces
Shadow the Hedgehog
VS.
Sonic Mania
I think it's pretty clear Japan doesn't know what the fuck to do with Sonic
Well Sonic is more popular in the west...to the point where it looks like Sega was solely relying on it to make bank overseas while most of it's other ips remain in japan. At this point Sonic's got competition in the West with Kazuma Kiryu as Sega's mascot. Plus they own Atlus, thank god they didn't go the whole "no SMT or Persona games in the west anymore" route with them
Yes, they kicked out SoA CEO that marketed genesis and didn't reveal Saturn untill 32x was too late into production. The only reason 32x exist is because SoJ didn't want to share information with SoA.
They could have gone with 3D environments and 2D characters.
One of the worst things they did was the Saturn's US launch.
>surprise console launch at E3 instead of months later
>at $299
>many retailers pissed off
>Sony walks in
>"$199"
>since they have the audacity to force fishing, shooting, werewolf, treasure-hunting, excessive drama and romanticism, massive leaning to edginess and darkness
Then what the fuck do you want out of this franchise? Endless Sonic 1 clones?
>A game revolved around the universe and the content of Archie Sonic sounds like a great concept to execute
So you just criticized the Japanese for something the West did with Archie?
Neither the East or West knows what the fuck to do with Sonic at this point.
He's an Archie autist, user. Don't waste your time. He'll defend the Dark Ages and Sonic in high school, if he has to.
Again, Sonic Mania. Give up on the middleground, user.
Are you fucking stupid? Every time Japan tries to make Sonic into a Japan product it fucking sucks. See: Sonic X.
>MUH MANIA
>MUH MANIA
Give it up, you sperglords. Sonic Mania was a romhack at best. A Best Of Sonic game at the very most. It reused assets and levels and did the minimum of new content it possibly could. You only worship it because it reminded you of the Genesis games. Get real.
>Muh Mania!
user, get a fucking grip. Yeah, the game was nice, but it wasn't a masterpiece. I could bring up Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric if you want a really bad western Sonic game.
>See: Sonic X.
You mean the show AMERICANS liked SO MUCH than 4Kids ordered a third season from the studio JUST FOR AMERICANS?
Yeah, the Japanese got it goin on. Murricans can't do shit with Sonic.
Better than Underground and SatAM (Both are only Sonic in name).
Did you forget Japan made the OVA, too? The only animated Sonic series that actually FEELS like Sonic?
Not that guy, but the fact remains that Mania is the only Sonic game with real universal critical acclaim in the last ten years.
I'm really kind of amazed at the Japanese dicksucking in this thread considering how much disdain SoJ has for Americans.
Like, even Nintendo respects Retro and recognizes their talent. SoJ wanted to quash SoA for no reason other than not being glorious fullblood Asians.
Blind nostalgia means fucking nothing, you ape.
How delusional are you? Sonic X was more popular in the USA than it was in Japan. 4Kids commissioned TMS and Sega to make a new season JUST FOR USA AUDIENCES. It was a smash hit in the US market!
Yes. The Japanese know how to make better Sonic products than Americans. That is an indisputable fact. And I don't know why you would even be so indignant and fight about it, anyway. The Japanese make Sonic pretty much exclusively for Americans and GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT. Sonic only sucks when Americans decide they want to run the show (see: Sonic Underground, SatAM, the Archie comics, etc.).
Just let the Japanese make you your Sonic products. They give you what you want and you have nothing to lose. Autists.
I can say the same for the American dicksucking despite how much they mutilated the brand more than the Japanese ever could.
And let's not try to paint SoA as angels here. They damaged their relationship with SoJ because of the shitshow with Sonic Xtreme.
Even people who didn't grow up with Sonic loved it. EVERYONE loved it, you retard. You're just shouting into the void"NOSTALGIA!" despite everyone agreeing Mania was a fantastic game.
Get the fuck over yourself
>Then what the fuck do you want out of this franchise? Endless Sonic 1 clones?
I never implied that I want Sonic 1 clones. I implied that I want a (3D) Sonic game with its huge and important emphasis on the momentum and physics, just like the Genesis games, first of all, before tackling on other secondary matters, such as story, the kind of universe, the tone and others. This is simple to understand.
>So you just criticized the Japanese for something the West did with Archie?
I don't understand what are you trying to say here. Why are you still targeting to the americans exclusively? Are you intentionally ignoring the such large harm that the japaneses have made to the Sonic franchise too?
>shitshow with Sonic Xtreme
The shitshow that SoJ directly caused and exacerbated?
>Better than Underground
A France made show. Funny you had to cherry pick that one between AoSTH and SatAM just to make your point.
Surprise surprise, AMERICANS love of Sonic carried the success. DESPITE how fucking anime it was. Remember that fucking digimon on the show? Or the sentai villains? Everything Japan about it sucked. It was only the character appeal of Sonic and friends that carried it.
Don't reply if you don't have anything to contribute, please.
SoA are likely the ones who approved everything Penders did, the Archie Dark Ages, Sonic Underground, all of that GARBAGE. SoJ let SoA approve all Sonic media made in America because they assumed SoA knew what they were doing. By the time they actually checked in on them and saw the pure garbage SoA was attaching the Sonic brand name to, it was pretty much too late.
SoA was never good.
And despite that, more people completed Forces than Mania and it couldn't outsell Freedom Planet, a fucking Indie game amping on Sonic and other Sega stuff.
Fuck off, Maniafag. It didn't save the fucking franchise and it isn't the best Sonic game ever made.
>A France made show. Funny you had to cherry pick that one between AoSTH and SatAM just to make your point.
SatAM was in my post, you blind bat. Nice job nitpicking.
Do you have any evidence to back those claims up?
Freedom Planet was on the market longer. Freedom Planet happened because classic Sonic fans had been so deprived for so long, they had to make their own franchise just to quell their appetite. Freedom Planet is testament to the fact Sonic Mania should have happened even sooner.
I played Mania. It was sub-mediocre. A blatant romhack of the Genesis games with nothing new to offer but backgrounds.
THIS was the best Sonic game made in 20 years? Trash.
The game has qualities beyond nostalgia, the physics and momentum are 1:1 to the genesis titles, and the levels are beautiful, sound amazing, and are a blast to play through.
I honestly can't blame SoA for wanting a 3D Sonic game, they knew it was the only way the Saturn could hope to get off the shelves after the atrocious launch of the console.
>No no no! American Sonic GOOD! Japanese Sonic BAD! Ignore all those atrocities that was completely alien to the brand and that most of the things we like about Sonic came from the Japanese!
Is there anything worse than a Burger Sonic fan?
AoSTH was the best show anyways, figures you wouldn't dare mention it.
>Are you intentionally ignoring the such large harm that the japaneses have made to the Sonic franchise too?
They did good AND bad for the franchise.
The west did nothing but bad. This is a fact. I'm not going to sugar coat it or tiptoe around it. You can bash the Japanese all you want, but do NOT imply the west produced more good.
This bait is so goddamn pathetic, but this thread is a shit tornado already, I guess I can spare a (You)
Well, that's why I didn't mention it, genius. It's actually the only decent western Sonic show. What are you trying to say here?
>same levels
>same assets
>just rearranged in new patterns
Mania is the definition of a romhack, faggot.
This is what you Maniafags always do every time someone dares criticize you "greatest" Sonic game ever made. Fucking Sonic Before the Sequel kicks that game's ass and it's a fangame.
>The west is so creatively bankrupt that they release a glorified port as a new game
The definition of a romhack, is a rom that is hacked.
I'm shocked the west is still trying to brag about Sonic after that Sonic movie trailer came out.
>Sega caring about support characters
This. After that Sonic movie trailer, no American can ever, EVER, say that they are better at Sonic than Japan. That trailer was pretty much a FORFEIT on the part of America when it comes to Sonic media. Japan won.
>Hollywood has anything to do with "western Sonic"
It's western and Sonic, but good luck tying that back into the brand. May as well cite Deviantart at that point.
It should have been a forfeit after that Sonic Boom game, but they had the whole "IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DECENT IF THE JAPS DIDN'T MEDDLE!" even though we knew the game wasn't going to be good from the start.
Now we have the movie. Which has been confirmed to be completely HANDS OFF from anyone Japanese and look what we fucking saw.
The new sonic movie has destroyed any credibility Murricans had about being superior at producing Sonic media.
I think it's less that Americans are bad with Sonic and more that Sega of America nowadays picks the worst fucking Americans to make Sonic media. From Big Red Button to Paramount to Bioware's C-Team to Archie, they cannot get the right people to work on Sonic. But the Sonic Boom tv show was well recieved, and that was SoA's doing.
>I think it's less that Americans are bad with Sonic and more that Americans are bad with Sonic
Good argument.
>But the Sonic Boom tv show was well recieved, and that was SoA's doing.
Wasn't that show animated in Europe?
You know this thread was actually pretty nice until it devolved into this weird east vs west Pro-Mania Anti-Mania shitfest.
Mercifully this thread is at the end of its life.
I'm certain he's talking about the writing.
This is literally "everybody in one country is the same person" tier argument.
America had multiple attempts and all ended up borderline bizarre. It's not about "all", it's about the majority.
I discussion about a particular autist affecting the Sonic franchise basically ended up attracting the usual autists, so now they're playing console wars but with countries.
The samefagging in this thread, Jesus Christ
Febuary now my guy
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering Penders
To the last I grapple with thee
FROM HELL'S HEART I STAB AT THEE
FOR HATRED'S SAKE I SPIT MY LAST BREATH AT THEE