Why do they call him a villain?

He tried to kill both young princes sending his children, who are their best friends. That's fucked up as a servant, as an adult, and as a father.

But I can understand everything else. Fuck queen Aanya. I fucking hate that character.

Queen Aanya made the right decision. The pentarchy being a bunch of wishy-washy pussies and Viren sperging out when his obvious attempts to emotionally manipulate a child didn't work were the real flaws of that scene

You forgot about his hobby of putting people inside coins.

At the very least he has retard-level ethics. He's an enjoyable antagonist though.

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Betrays his king, arguably will end up being the cause of the famine via his dark magic, definitely a nigger by starting up war with the knife ears to fix the problem he caused

Elves aren’t people.

Yeah that to

Oh also: he is clearly not ready to make sacrifices he keeps insisting others make, he is ready to betray humanity and possibly all life to sexy mirror elf just for power, and he's forcing his retarded children to murder their friends

He wished his children goodbye just before offering to die for Harrow. He would've actually done had Harrow not suddenly become a colossal prick.

God Harrow snapping like that still feels like a weird as fuck scene.

Nah she was like "Okay I know that you saved our nation when we were starving but whatever you fight your own war I'm outta here"
No wonder Viren would crack in front of everyone.

Only because harrow called his dumb ass on what a coward he was, and harrow "suddenly" being a prick is also horseshit, he just wanted to allow the tit for tat assassination to end the conflict then instead of escalating to a war, the only thing he didn't want was to allow his son to die as well (something that wouldn't even be an issue if viren wasn't hiding the dragon egg in the first place)

King Harrow is a fucking cancer. He makes rational decisions without any thoughts and pushes it.
That's how he got his queen killed and himself. What an idiot.

>Please send troops so we can start a world war that will probably devastate the entire continent
>This seems a bit rash-
>FUCK YOU YOU OWE US REEEEE
This is how WWI started

1- The Princes were unlikely to be capable rulers as he said, and literally ran away from their responsibilities to go off with who from his perspective is an assassin who tried to kill his best friend. Had they tried to calmly discuss the egg or had the king allowed Viren to sacrifice himself, NONE of this would have happened.
2- Only after they refused to cooperate for the greater good. There was no reason not to make an attempt to protect the people, Queen Aanya doesn't know shit. Black magic isn't even that bad.
3- The knight was counterproductive.
4- Not really a promotion.
5- Barely usurping when he's just trying to give his nation the best chance for survival.
6- Doesn't make him evil.
7- Doesn't make him evil.
8- Doesn't make him evil.
9- Again, not evil.

All last 4 are Chaotic Good acts. You're all fucking idiots who are like "b-but violence and breaking the law is bad, lets not look at the circumstances!!!" Jesus christ, Yea Forums really is full of children.

He killed the king, why would you ever be merciful to an assassin like that? I'd rather be stuck in a coin than flat-out dead, so I'd say Viren was still pretty generous.

She wasn't the monarch that asked for aid
War will not be popular with her people, and the potential death toll would outweigh the lives saved besides
All Viren is presenting is suspicions and a flashy light show which clearly reads like propoganda. Regardless of what's actually happening at the border, Viren made a poor argument for the elves actually wanting to steamroll all humanity.

Making rash decisions out of empathy is how Harrow ultimately fucked his own kingdom in the first place. It would be foolhardy for her to jump into this without a more concrete threat.

I hate King Harrow, but I still feel like the scene was a little extreme. Really they just had him act like that because the story had to progress somehow. Viren would've saved the whole story if he'd sacrificed himself successfully.

>Had they tried to calmly discuss the egg or had the king allowed Viren to sacrifice himself, NONE of this would have happened
>Hey I don't trust you, I know you're up to some seriously shady shit
>Fuck you mongrel you and your cuck dad don't deserve the throne
Breakdown in communications is as much viren's fault as everyone else's

Yeah, completely aside from how I feel about Harrow and whether or not any of the things he did were right or wrong, that one moment seemed wildly out of character for purely plot reasons. It was bad writing.

I think it made sense in context; the man was awaiting death and just had an argument over how much he disdained dark magic solutions. Harrow already knows how stubborn Viren is and for once just wanted to have his wishes respected, and in comes Viren offering the same fucking solution. The combination of factors made him snap at the worst possible time
>Viren would've saved the whole story if he'd sacrificed himself successfully.
The elves would still be readying for invasion. They'd be in the same scenario and the princes would've still ran off with the egg.

Viren never said anything like that about King Harrow. And again, Callum was threatening to scream out important secrets and left with the elves without any real discussion. Viren did his best to keep the princes around when he could, it was only after they abandoned them and stole away the egg that he came to the proper conclusion that traitorous children probably shouldn't be kings.

Callum really should've just tried to figure out what the deal about the egg was for more that half a minute, he was threatening Viren right away.

At the start of the show that excuse seemed possibly valid, but we later see in the lava golem flashback that Harrow is capable of being calm and collected even under life threatening pressure with loved ones in danger. Maybe if there’d been more focus on screen placed on Harrow getting continually worked up that day before his last meeting with Viren it might’ve worked better, but I think the way they chose to do it still came off weird and that the speculative excuses feel too flimsy after the fact.

But it makes no sense imo. Those last few moments before death are usually when you're at your most desperate, and Viren tried to speak to Harrow "as a friend", ready to offer his life and relieve most of the tension. There was zero need to panic and slam down Viren as a servant, it was just a random ego-boost moment. Dark Magic isn't even that bad. I watched all of S1-2, and I couldn't find a SINGLE horrible example of Dark Magic. I really don't get it.

As for the elves sure, but King Harrow would still be alive to manage the war and that is incorrect about the Princes. Callum would've definitely talked with his father, since Viren wouldn't have been there to stop him.

Callum is literally a dumb kid. Viren's response of insulting him, threatening him back and even stealing his voice only solidified Callum's idea that he was a bad guy. Niether party attempted to meet the other halfway, but Callum has the excuse of being 14. Viren has a chronic inability to engage in reasonable negotiation and it's fucked him multiple times. He's the adult here and he just responded with equal childishness

There's a reason the road to hell is paved with good intentions, user. In Viren's case, he can't even say it was worth it, because the goober took all the shortcuts of ruthlessness, but so incompetently that NOTHING turned out as he planned. He deals in lies, murder, and manipulation; literally the type of asshole Machiavelli was satirizing in The Prince.

It's weird how they make dark magic out like it's this super evil thing when it seems to be doing pretty good so far. Elf fags are just salty humans are willing to use Chad magic

Me too. I can’t understand why dark magic is considered evil. I think it would’ve been okay if Callum used dark magic to help people to show that dark magic isn’t that bad.

Fair. Too bad being childish alone doesn't make you a villain. Viren was disrespected and yelled at heavily by King Harrow, someone he thought was a close friend, so I feel like any average person would be very irritable at such a crucial moment. His voice needed to be stolen anyways to stop the secret from being revealed.

He probably wouldn't be so incompetent if every character he ever interacted with just seemed to automatically distrust him for whatever reason. Even then he's still had a few successes. Otherwise I agree with you.

>Those last few moments before death are usually when you're at your most desperate
Harrow is the "much honor" type. It is the exact opposite for them once they've decided on becoming a martyr

>but King Harrow would still be alive to manage the war
...do you really think Harrow is the kind to properly manage a war?
>Callum would've definitely talked with his father, since Viren wouldn't have been there to stop him.
If they had gone through with the body switch they would've been in the middle of it when Callum showed up. Who knows what he would've thought, assuming he was even let into the room

user all of those things I listed are against the laws

The king deserved to die. Let's not pretend this started with the elves, when it was virens shitty scheming that restarted hostilities and it was harrow who went along with it.

>virens shitty scheming
He was trying to save two kingdoms from famine. Really the fault is like 90% Harrow's for trying to be overly generous

We don't know everything about dark magic yet, but we do know some stuff: 1. You have to murder something to get it to work, 2. It taxes the caster, possibly in ways that endanger their soul/sanity, 3. Humans don't need it to perform magic, they just use it as a shortcut.
It's very likely that dark magic will be fleshed out later and take on a much more sinister aspect, and I personally have little doubt that the famine in the other kingdoms will be caused by fucking around with dark magic.

It doesn't matter what he was trying to do, he invaded another nation, no use pretending he dindu nothing now you human nigger

>the famine in the other kingdoms will be caused by fucking around with dark magic.
That'd be a shitty direction to take it if they wanna stick with the morally grey idea, but I could see it happening. They have a running theme of dark magic being used to fix problems caused by dark magic

>he returned to the motherland wrongfully stolen from mankind*
FTFY

Reminder the king isnt dead. Viren used the snake to switch Harrow and his bird.

He killed like five guards at the end of S2

Yeah sure thing, that's what all the deported subsentients say

It makes sense especially because the famine could be caused by drawing life force, since that is what dark magic is all about, it's basically a guaranteed plot point. I'd be really surprised if it didn't happen.

Not when everyone in the court is retarded,
>Our king was assassinated by elves and now they are trying to take our borders what should we do?
>Lets don't do anything.

No Viren, I named the gods.

>crimes aren't crimes because I'm right by gollee!
t. Every faggot criminal ever

Because he only understands hard power, not soft power. Which is to say: he doesn't understand why you would ever use diplomacy or trade to foster peace with your neighbors, if you could just conquer them by force instead.

Its the sort of short sighted problem solving that seems easier, but creates more problems that it solves because you are constantly creating enemies and conflicts that you then have to come up with solutions for, and as long as you keep making the same mistake all of your solutions will only make more problems too.

Any one of his decisions, in a vacuum, can be justified. His actions as a whole, taken together, make him a deadly poison to any kind of authority structure he participates in, because every decision he makes weakens the crown.

This doesn't make him a bad character, its an established villain trope for a reason. He's basically a kid-friendly version of Cersei Lannister.

Almost nothing wrong
discord.gg/2u2QeNC

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>he doesn't understand why you would ever use diplomacy or trade to foster peace with your neighbors,
The elves have closed borders with humanity and refused to have anything to do with them long before Viren saved millions from starvation.

They are gonna be okay right? They are litterally 90% of why I even like this show, if they get a bad end I might...I might do something...bad

The elves are not the only neighbors, user.

>VIREN DID NOTHING WRONG
He lost, and that is wrong.

Probably not since we've briefly seen him before his banishment

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>VIREN DID NOTHING WRONG
Anyone who says "X did nothing wrong" is fully aware they did so much shit wrong

Am I supposed to recognize this character and the show he’s from?

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Are you supposed to be here?

Based and Virenpilled

Of course, they'll be okay. Ehasz wanted to redeem Azula, on top of Zuko's redemption. Soren and Claudia are just Zuko and Azula. But dumber.

>Send shadow monsters to instill fear into other rulers so they follow his commands
Viren is literally a terrorist.

He's just the white man's Jafar, but with less hypnotism shenanigans.

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>40 minutes between posts

got busy after posting it, sorry Im not a literal basement dweller

Trying to kill children is pretty malicious.