Tom King Leaving Batman

>HiC sold like crap
>constantly in the top 10
The industry really needs to crash.

Yeah this is a strong possibility.
Look forward to a Bendis-helmed reboot, with darker writers being driven into their own corners and replaced by literally who's that are friends with Bendis.

Didio has just been biding his time to get rid of EVERYTHING about Rebirth, and King's Batman was one of the biggest things about Rebirth that he hated.

More like people like that fag who just screech that everything they like MUST be doing poorly in sales despite all evidence to the contrary need to fucking get a clue.

>Didio has just been biding his time to get rid of EVERYTHING about Rebirth, and King's Batman was one of the biggest things about Rebirth that he hated.

Will Rebirth fanfic ever get old

>Didio has just been biding his time to get rid of EVERYTHING about Rebirth, and King's Batman was one of the biggest things about Rebirth that he hated.
Didio fucking loves Rebirth Batman, because of King.

Because sales of the title were consistenly declining this year.

No, but I like how in this scenario Big Bad Didio did another terrible thing by... removing King from Batman? What a monster.

Everything about Rebirth was a gigantic shit on both the New 52, which Didio was a key component of, and DCYou, which was Didio's baby.

This idea that Didio is an edgelord who loves dark shit is parroted by idiots who've only been around a few years. Didio likes comics to be relatively free of continuity and made for casuals. Seriously just look at literally everything he said during the DCYou period.

Bendis is CUMMING!

Attached: Didio on fun.png (500x180, 21K)

He's not wrong.

So did Slott to Spider-Man and Marvel didn't give a fuck.

It's time.

Attached: bic.jpg (1662x468, 399K)

How much more do i have to wait for king to return to marvel?

Mark Doyle is having a good laugh, I'd imagine

The first issue was in fourth place, usually considering it was a first AND an event, it sold like shit.
And barely staying in the top 10 doesn't help your idol nor this faggot right there

You know whats worse than a ugly baby?
An aborted ugly baby.

DC should at least let him finish whatever shit he started.

five years of exclusivity, and the contract will be renewed since he is Didio's pet

>The first issue was in fourth place, usually considering it was a first AND an event, it sold like shit.
So it being the fourth most sold comic is a bad thing.

And nothing of value was lost!

>I wanted to see him finish his story
It would have ended with Duke becoming Batman.

Pass.

Where do people even get this idea? King hardly had Duke in his run.

He is not Didio's pet. The batbooks were nominally independent from the rest of DC editorial when Doyle was running things. So Didio had no say in them hiring King (plus Didio was in the doghouse after Convergence pretty much destroyed DC's sales) and this almost certainly played a part in them getting rid of King before he got to issue 100.

So what happened? Did King quit or did DC fire him?

He hasn't left DC.

>Batman is a Suicide and cut himself
>spent a year hyping up a wedding that didn’t happen
>BATCATBATCATBATCATBATCAT
>Catwoman wank
>getting a good editor removed
>Harley defeating Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman
>Edgy Booster Gold
>Killing heroes for shockvalue in HiC
>ruining Wally West
>making literally every superhero in the DCU mentally ill (even Superman)
>Batman being so edgy and emo and acting like Catwoman leaving him is somehow worse than any Robin dying
>Dick Grayson shot in the head
>Bane’s Master Plan (IT WAS ME BRUCE! And I WAS PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED)
>so many many issues of pointless Filler
>Batman hitting Gordon
>Batman hitting Tim Drake

King is a hack. Good riddance.

I mean, did they fire him off the book?

DC say the shitty Batman sales and told King his run was cut short.

>Batman is a Suicide and cut himself
Sounds in character to me.

Somebody did, I don't know if it was DC or not.

>shitty Batman sale
Shitty? Batman was doing great

>Batman is a Suicide and cut himself

Attached: King GL.jpg (2084x1598, 495K)

It is below 90K and getting its butt kicked by Immortal Hulk.

>co/ will be happy
NOT UNTIL BENDIS LEAVES SUPERMAN

That's pretty funny. I bet A King/Ennis book would be fucking hilarious.

NONONONONONONOOOOO

>It is below 90K
It's around 85k. Saying that's shitty sales is bullshit.

>yfw Bendis leaves Superman starts writing Batman and Detective Comics
You know it'll happen.

Immortal Hulk had a variant cover that month.

For Batman, it is.

>yfw Bendis leaves Action Comics to do Batman, but still does Superman.
More likely scenario.

yeah, it's not like Immortal Hulk hasn't been steadily increasing in sales from month to month, consistently going back for 3rd and 4th printings. Nope, it's just the variant cover. That's all it is.

I'm almost positive Bendis is going to get Batman and it terrifies me.

Heroes in Crisis really shit the bed with the Walley reveal. EVERY story he tells is the same depressed schlock. To the point its either glorifying mental illness or mocking it.

No it isn't Batman used to sell around like 50k

Decades ago.

Thank you for the OP image OP.
I assume it's from some Brave and the Bold?

It's still a shitty corporate suit logic.
>Batman isn't selling 100k?
>get rid of the writer
That's just dumb.

It’s not like they’re pulling him with no warning. They’re giving him the rest of the year. It’ll be fine.

Linkara is apparently going to be reviewing "The Gift" story soon.

>A DC source tells CBR that King is leaving the series by the end of 2019

YES!

Attached: 1557969024247.jpg (750x733, 60K)

Maybe he shouldn’t have tanked Batman sales and wasted several issues on pointless filler?

He is selling less than the Immortal Hulk. Batman is suppose to be the biggest comic (second only to the Walking Dead occasionally). And now even Scott Snyder Batman Who Laughs is selling more.

It sounds like McDonalds logic, like the manager is telling the drive through crew that last week's numbers weren't as high as the previous week's numbers.

Hey now, Batman chasing the Joker for 20 pages and ending on a Looney Tunes punchline was VERY necessary to King's overarching story.

I hope he does Heroes in Crisis when it’s done.

>He is selling less than the Immortal Hulk
He is still selling at 90-85k which put him in the top 10 comics sold.

Probably next year's event month if enough Patreon supporters vote for it. Which they probably will given how infamous it is now and how much they know it made a Titans fanboy like Linkara rage.

>Batman is suppose to be the biggest comic
That's retarded as fuck, Batman isn't entitled to the number one spot.

I say he should review all of King's stuff in one go.

I mean, what's the issue number at? 70+? I'd say that has a lot more to do with the sales declining than anything else. People don't like comics with big issue numbers on the front anymore. It's been this way for a long time now. Gauging a titles popularity just from floppy sales is also foolish, when the bookscan market is now the largest contributor to the comic book industry, and it will only continue to trend in that direction. How many people will feel inclined to pick up (or continue picking up) Tom King's Batman in trades after the news that the run will come to a premature end?

As for people bringing up Immortal Hulk, the biggest reason that book has become so hot is because of speculators.
bleedingcool.com/2019/05/11/how-much-are-people-paying-for-immortal-hulk-back-issues/
The speculator market is alive and well in 2019, I'm afraid.

If this rumor is true that's pretty slimy from DC. King has moved a lot of units for them, and isn't that far away from finishing his run forever. You can't blame him for stuff like the Wal-Mart scandal because he has this thing called EDITORS, who work directly for DC. Shameful bit of news I must say.

>he has this thing called EDITORS,
He's already had an editor fired before. Who will say no to him?

Can't wait for the mediocre, ambition-devoid villain-of-the-week stories that are sure to follow after King's departure. Apparently you guys would prefer crap like Tynion's 'Tec which is super fucking boring, but hey at least it's safe and fast-paced and that's all that matters.

So you're happy with Tom King copying Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Rises?

The editor-in-chief? The publisher? You can't blame Tom King for DC at large.
Do you seriously believe they are powerless to veto a writing decision from him, but will simply knee-jerk kick him off the title because Hulk passed it for one month? Which one is it? He's all powerful or a pawn?

I agree. We need more issues of Bruce crying about Selina and cutting himself while Selina defeats Dr Manhattan with a kick. So much better.

So what was King's plan for after City of Bane? Especially since he recently said he was planning something mythology-defining that he even had to consult the WB higher-ups about.

Bruce dies and Duke becomes Batman

something edgy and shitty

But King was did HIC not Bendis

Many fans wish he would write Batman/Catwoman spinoff.
I really hate BatCat, but considering King’s obsession with the ship, it seems very likely.

That's what sells user and that's what fans care about nowadays apparently.

Batfags are really in denial about it. Protip: it wasn't just a "variant" cover either, it was a second reprint because the first one sold out earlier.

This is the redpill Yea Forums isn't ready for. Anything is better than the Saturday Morning Cartoon shit that every other hack at DC phones in month-in month-out. These people don't deserve King.

>shills in panic mode

>accusing someone that's going against the company line of being a shill
not too bright are you?

I honestly do want to see his reaction since I know Linkara is really left leaning and Tom's trying to virtue signal with the mental health stuff but doing it so poorly that it's an insult to the mentally ill.

>but doing it so poorly that it's an insult to the mentally ill
So says user, the gatekeeper.

Are you that crazy user who thinks Didio masterminds every bad decision?

There is more than one member of the Didio Fanfiction Club. These people describe DC palace intrigue like it was Game of Thrones

Since DC has no interest in building a likable well rounded universe, Batman is their only saving grace. It dipping below 80k is gonna raise red flags. Now... if they spent the past half decade properly building and marketing their non Bat characters they wouldn’t have this problem

It's supply and demand. No one gives a shit about anyone beyond Batman.

To DC he does for whatever reason.

except Hulk, apparently

I'm referring to DC, since you were.

different user

>Since DC has no interest in building a likable well rounded universe
Faggots like you probably only read Batman.

They could if they put some fucking effort. No one was begging for the Hulk to be top seller but because Marvel actually cares here we are looking at the Hulk consistently in the top five.

Bruh for the past eight years Batman has been one of the only titles not to dip below 100k. Dropping below 90k should raise alarm bells, and the number one person to look at is the person writing it.

I'll admit, I was on board with King for the first 50-55 issues. And, I been loving Lee Weeks and Mikel Janin's art. But I don't like this ongoing "I need to leave my mark on Batman/the Character will never be the same" writing style that dudes like Snyder and King have built themselves up with. It's not organic for the most part.

Jokes on you I don’t read DC because all they try to push is Batman.

Batfags are so fucking insecure in this omg

>loving Lee Weeks
fine
>loving Mikel Janin
your taste is shit and not to be trusted in any capacity.

>we are looking at the Hulk consistently in the top five.
Stop making stuff up. It had one really good month, where all the speculators hopped on board. It won't stay this way.

It is a very good book though, with fantastic Alex Ross covers, and that certainly helps the cause. But this is just par for the course. Marvel always spread the wealth better. Pic related tells you the whole story. Only 2 DC properties, both in the top spots, Batman and Superman.

Quesada's famous quote is infantile, but rings true.
>I mean, they have Batman and Superman, and they don’t know what to do with them. That’s like being a porn star with the biggest dick and you can’t get it up. What the fuck?

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At least Janin isn’t 100% Kings bitch like Weeks and Gerard are

at least nothing, he's one of the worst artists working right now.

It's also never been at this high an issue count since before the New 52. Why does no one else want to comment on this fact? In this era, the sales always go down as the issue count goes up (excepting "milestone" issues).

>Insecure Batfag not wanting DC to spread the love

When DC folds you faggots will only have yourselves to blame

Any other words you'd like to put in my mouth before I respond properly?

>Dropping below 90k should raise alarm bells,
No it fucking shouldn't, it's still in the top 5. It's still selling outselling every other book out on the market.

>Kingfags are really in denial about it
Fixed that for you. It's Kingfags who keep pushing this "it's an industry trend/variant cover" meme because the alternative is King's so bad he's costing Batman sales. As a life long Batfag I'm hyped King is getting BTFO and I hope we'll pivot away from this post-TDKR edgefest and towards a more classic hero Batman.
Yeah, I know it'll never happen. Bendis is going to be put on Batman and we're going to get a rehash of his original DareDevil run if we're lucky...

It's not like DC only has Batman and Superman, they take much more chances with titles like Young animal or Wonder comics. The problem is the slackjawed fans who only talk about Batman and occasionally Superman.

While I don’t follow floppies, and this don’t have a great understanding of how double shipping works, King’s run dipped below 100k prior to the wedding when it was still above 100k in Snyder’s run at the same point. If they are selling more comics a month even if they are selling less per issue, I suppose they are still making their money. But as someone who doesn’t understand double shipping, as most people don’t, this has to look bad.

losing 20-30K sales is a big deal for any book, even the best selling ones. Especially when the next-best selling book you have is an event by the same writer that's also underperfoming, and the next-best is only doing 60K~

>The problem is the slackjawed fans who only talk about Batman and occasionally Superman.
It is what it is. And let's be honest, Batman and Superman are fantastic characters, each with terrific supporting characters, villains, locales, and mythos. There's a REASON these two characters tower above everyone else at DC. They get the movies, the cartoons, the video games. They're in the public mind like few other fictional characters ever have been. DC would be stupid NOT to capitalize on it, and they have. It built and sustains their company.

Yeah, like you said, King is selling two issues a month. So even if he sells 10k less than Snyder at the same issue count, he sold the book twice in the same month.

Batman didn't have to resort to double shipping, that's one of the reasons it's been used as a mean for industry standards since the crash in the 90's. When you're fucking with Batman's 120k average you're fucking with a legitimate 120k, not 40-40-40 three month numbers bullshited into a debut estimate.

>Batman didn't have to resort to double shipping
But if you're DC why wouldn't you? You already know these idiots will buy Batman and Detective twice over. They'd buy it thrice over if they could.

because as we're seeing with both Batman and Tec, it hurts sales in the long term. Tec especially.

How? They're selling the issue twice in a month. They're producing twice as many trades as a result. Double shipping their biggest titles was a stroke of fucking genius and I don't know why they didn't do it sooner. They know you can count on one hand the amount of DC characters anyone gives a fuck about: ship those characters twice.

Wait didn’t we know #85 was gonna be King’s swan song for a month or two now?

Fuck off apologist shit sales are shit regardless of rank.

I'm intrigued by what a Bendis Batman would be..

not at all. He publishes comics that intentionally anger people why would he expect good humor in response?

It's normal for long lasting titles to lose readers, is King was still selling 80k by issue 70 then that's better than great. None of these books are underperforming if they're top 10.

>They're producing twice as many trades as a result
the Bookscan numbers for 2018 show that didn't really pan out for them.

Honestly I think it would be good. His Wal-Mart story and DC1000 story were good, and given his track record, street-level is his specialty.

Heroes In Crisis is a big event. It should be doing much better than it is. I know it keeps coming back to Hulk, but one variant cover on #16 shouldn't magically make the series do better than DC's big event and their consistently best-selling ongoing.

I mean, manga, Image, and Scholastic crush both Marvel and DC in bookscan so that point is moot.

You don't think Batman will adopt a young black girl to be his next Robin and call her Cardinal?

I hope not. They need to kill off half these Batfaggots before adding anymore.

Of course it shouldn't, because it was not a variant cover.

Honestly, the state of Batman comics makes bitching about YET ANOTHER sidekick rather silly. He's got a bigger family than Billy at this point. I say keep piling them on, or get rid of absolutely everyone but Alfred.

The only way i would accept a young black girl in the Bat-Family is if Batman and Vixen started race-mixing everywhere, AND I MEAN EVERYWHERE. In the Watchtower, the Batcave, a dirty alley, a rooftop, the Batmobile, and so on.

is there any reason why booster was so fucking retarded in this storyline? Like he's not the brightest bulb around but he's not literally mentally disabled

>Heroes In Crisis is a big event.
Metal is a big event, Doomsday clock was supposed to be a big event. Heroes in crisis is actually the textbook example of a personal emotional driven story and therefore is a small event.

DC usually does pretty well in Bookscan, usually fighting for #2 with Image, but they got absolutely destroyed last year. Fucking Marvel was #7, and DC did even worse than them. Not taking manga into account, obviously.

>Bleached Vixen

Attached: 1546389087027.gif (800x517, 770K)

#16 did have a variant cover, though. The wraparound Bennett one.

That aside, as a fan, I like double shipping because it means I wait half as long for the next volume. It's kind of like manga that way, where I get a new volume multiple times a year.

Fucking this.

People are so quick to forget that King shat on major parts of the DC Universe and has done far more damage than Bendis and Snyder could even imagine.

Outside of making Mister Miracle sell well, his contributions have consistently been shit for an entire year and a half.

Its about time DC pulled the leash on him.

I said Weeks, I meant Jorge Fornes. My bad gang.

Learn what a variant cover is. That was a second printing.

Booster Gold is another one of Tom King's protags so he needed to be an ineffectual depressed sad sack of shit.

Wasn't Vixen working for Batman in one of those new books for kids? Supersons or something.

Saying it ain't shitty is bullshit.

See how that works?

You're just making an ass of yourself faggot. Grow up, he isn't going to be your friend why are you caping so hard for the hack?

>People are so quick to forget that King shat on major parts of the DC Universe and has done far more damage than Bendis and Snyder could even imagine.
The only ruining shit is Snyder and Tynion.

It was not. The variant cover itself went back for a second printing, but it was a variant for the first printing initially.
bleedingcool.com/2019/03/26/as-immortal-hulk-16-becomes-a-three-figure-comic-on-ebay-before-publication-it-gets-two-second-printings/

Was or was Batman not the highest selling comic in those months?

>is there any reason why booster was so fucking retarded in this storyline
His name is King and he's here to do two things, chew bubble gum and ruin your favorite characters.
Guess who's all out of bubble gum?

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It's not a rumor that he's off you seem to think it is.

that's the knockoff Mazzuchelli, right? He's cool.

You're still a slack-jawed retard for liking Janin.

I could get behind this.

Is,,, is tha Vixen?

Was or Was Batman not one of the highest selling comics in those months?

Bookscan has not been kind to DC lately.

>Cardinal
That's a good name for Gotham Girl robin.

Attached: 1558128319890.jpg (1200x1822, 437K)

It was. It isn't now. And you seem unable to accept this and doubly unable to accept that losing a quarter of a book's readers is a problem when it's the bluechip book for the entire industry.

>Bane’s Master Plan (IT WAS ME BRUCE! And I WAS PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED)

ONLY I CAN PULL THAT BULLSHIT! ME!!

Attached: RF 1.jpg (1280x1623, 1.38M)

>You're just making an ass of yourself faggot. Grow up, he isn't going to be your friend why are you caping so hard for the hack?
What a startling lack of self-awareness.

I would love for a collage of all this shit.

>not muh

Literally
>I know you are but what am I
And yet you appear to think you're brilliant. Startling indeed.

I don't think the whole double shipping argument is all that sound considering what happened to Spider-Man. He was selling around 50k an issue a while until they decided to reinstate the legacy numbering prior to issue 800 and a renumbering shortly after. Now he's on the decline again. The numbers are still good for now, but there's no reason to believe they won't drop to around 50k again.

This is fantastic. Keep it coming

Half of that shit isn't related to anons "muh"s at all. We even reply so lazily?

Kingfags just can't accept that his sales are tanking

You can't just take ASM in a vacuum though. Spider-Man has so many more books than that

Reminder that Bane big plan to break the Batman was to have Catwoman dump him on their wedding day. Is there anything more hacky than this soap-opera for TV tier shit? You even have a missing dad that was thought to be dead coming back to help the bad guy.

Attached: file.png (768x433, 559K)

Are you trying to tell me King's wasn't consistently in the top ten in those months? Why is a writer getting kicked off a book despite being consistently in the top ten for each of those months?

>soap-opera for TV tier shit
Welcome to superhero comics. I'd suggest waltzing into your local library if you'd like to experience literary storytelling.

someone post that pic where WW is acting like a slut with Bruce who at that time was engaged with selina.

This is the big problem I have with people acting like what kings doing is a revelation. He's writing days of our lives Batman edition its fucking absurd.

So does Batman. But Batman was dropping below 100k before Snyder's titles started to come out. Now the sales are getting worse.

Why do you keep shifting the goalpost ever so slightly then claiming I'm making claims?

Like dead serious, why do that? Why not just converse like a normal person?

Batman's sales are generally at around 95-110. King is well below that and has dropped consistently and gets less and less good reviews. He's written 70 something issues that's more than enough. He doesn't deserve a king ass run just because you think less than optimal sales is "great". Lebron James averaging 10 a game isn't acceptable.

>Now the sales are getting worse.
Sure, but I don't think putting on some hack like Tomasi or Williamson to do villain of the month stories is the salvation that the lot of you think it would be. They would have to relaunch the title at #1, and if they were to do that, may as well have just stuck with King.

And Tom King only wrote that arc to shoot down the whole Batman/Wonder Woman thing, same with the Talia arc. Seriously, this shit feels like a fanfic where a girl self-insert herself as Catwoman and write off any female character that has ever interact with Batman just because she's seeing the hateful Stacies in them. Hell, you even have the Bat-Family and Clark/Lois fawning all over her.

And a man wrote this. A man who call to fame was being CIA agent.

Attached: Batman v05 - The Rules of Engagement (2018) (Digital) (Zone-Empire).cbr-Batman (2016-) v05 - The Rul (1988x3056, 1.04M)

Relaunch

I'm not shifting the goalpost, you're just avoiding the question.
>Why not just converse like a normal person?
Because this isn't a normal conversation. I'm going after your logic of labeling King's sale as tanking when he's still in the top ten sold most comics.

losing a fifth of your customers is tanking user, no matter how well you're doing in comparison to others.

This is the preceding page, by the way. Guess what, Catwoman easily defeats Talia al Ghul. IN A LITERAL CAT-FIGHT FOR A MAN. For fuck's sake. That's what these characters have been reduced. Some romance soap-opera tier shit.

Attached: Batman v05 - The Rules of Engagement (2018) (Digital) (Zone-Empire).cbr-Batman (2016-) v05 - The Rul (1988x3056, 952K)

Don't forget the arc opening with Talia stepping out from a sex orgy just to make her look like a slut undeserving of Batman.

So? Imagine if you people did panel-by-panel breakdowns of everything you read. You wouldn't enjoy anything. Who am I kidding, you don't enjoy anything.

Wonder woman isn't a serious Batman's love interest and neither is Talia. And it's funny you mention Lois and Clark because lois also deals with Clark's exes in a similar manner. You as a writer show why they're good for each other and ironically enough your problems with how Tom king write the BatCat relationship is from the lenses of a butthurt shipper.

>I don't think putting on some hack like Tomasi or Williamson to do villain of the month stories is the salvation that the lot of you think it would be
Lmao I never suggested this. I was pointing out that relying on double shipping isn't that great of an argument since Spiderman does it and doesn't do great outside the recent milestone plus renumbering. If you want a suggestion from me, figure out Snyder is doing that King isn't. He kept Batman over 100k when Bruce had amnesia and Gordon was running around in an Iron Man get up that looked more like a rabbit than a bat while fighting an OC villain. King is steadily declining while Batman faces an assault on all fronts from Bane, one of his greatest villains.

Retarded if true. His sales are still the top seller for DC books and a filler run wont make the sales any better. It just that Kings run was running out of material quicker than anticipated and nothing of substance was left to read in the run after the cop out wedding. No amount of child abuse could pick up any attention in the public's eye.

Can't you the hack writing? Establishing on one page that the strawomen to be defeated has trained her entire life, only for the next page have the heroine easily defeat the strawomen while saying she never trained in her life.
I don't care about Wonder Woman or Talia al Ghul. I don't ship. I'm just pointing out that Tom King felt the need to drag these characters to his book all so he could shit on them for the pairing he was trying to push. Something that simple was uncalled for. And he did the most spiteful way possible.

And Superman writers never felt the need to do this shit with the Clark/Lois relationship. That's hack writing.

>losing a fifth of your customers is tanking user,
It's completely normal for a series that runs this long, you can even see it in Snyder's Batman too. There is no dramatic drop here where it went from 100k to 80k in a blink of an eye.

>People are so quick to forget that King shat on major parts of the DC Universe and has done far more damage than Bendis and Snyder could even imagine.

You have to be a completely butthurt retard to believe this.

unironically wouldn't mind that. I don't know if it's king's fault or not but i"m sick of bruce and and sick of the utter lack of long-standing changes over the past 75 issues.

>Lmao I never suggested this
I know, but based on the attitude in this thread and around Yea Forums, all they want is "someone else". I just don't see how that solves the problem. A new writer takes over #86 and now it's magically at 120k? And stays there for 87, 88, 89? No fucking way.

That's all we can really speculate about: who and what is next?

>He kept Batman over 100k when Bruce had amnesia and Gordon was running around in an Iron Man get up that looked more like a rabbit than a bat while fighting an OC villain.
That's true, but there were also less Batman books on the shelf every month. You had Batman, Batman and Robin, Dark Knight (cancelled at #29), and Detective Comics, all once a month. And that was it. Maybe the lesson here is to reduce the number of Batbooks? But to a DC accountant right now that would seem like suicide.

Talia was trained to be breeding stock. Any martial art training was probably a leisure activity for her.

Yeah, whatever you say.

reading panel-by-panel breakdowns of Watchmen made me enjoy it more.

>Can't you the hack writing? Establishing on one page that the strawomen to be defeated has trained her entire life, only for the next page have the heroine easily defeat the strawomen while saying she never trained in her life.
Again if you want to apply this level of scrutiny to every comic, please do so, then come to the conclusion that every single Flash and Superman comic doesn't make any sense.

What kind of defense is this?

Especially if it's one consistent writer on the title. Barely any writer these days sticks to a single book for 70+ issues straight. Most do maybe thirty issues, tops, before a creative tesm shuffle. And if they do stick around, you can bet your ass there's renumbering, relaunching or other sales gimmicks at play.

>A new writer takes over #86 and now it's magically at 120k? And stays there for 87, 88, 89? No fucking way.
Put Snyder there and see the magic work.

>I'm just pointing out that Tom King felt the need to drag these characters to his book all so he could shit on them for the pairing he was trying to push.
That's called being a writer. If you're writing a love story you focus on the couple and why they work so good. Those issues show why Catwoman is a good fit for Batman.

People need to remember that Snyder was paired with Capullo while King has been paired with Janin and other shit artists. It's not just the writer who sells.

It's the truth. You have a hate-boner, just seeing the name Tom King on the front lessens any enjoyment you might have had.

yes, user, most comics don't hold up to scrutiny and close reading. Nor do most pieces of media. That's how you determine which ones are actually good.

Snyder's JL is a pile of shit, and his Batman was only worth reading for Capullo's art. But honestly you're right. His name fucking moves books. Dude is A+ list.

That being said, I'm pretty sure he's done with Batman after his Last Knight mini

>being a comic writer means shitting on characters to build others up
Not a good look

It might be as simple as Capullo on the art. To some autistic readers not having the same artist on the book every issue is a deal breaker.

user is not wrong, you're not even doing a panel by panel breakdown. You're just complaining.

But the story is focusing on why they work. The story is focusing on why every other women is a slut with the heroine humiliating and/or defeating them. If anything, you also have the heroine putting down the hero, so on top of that you've a terrible romance where the women see her bride-to-be as nothing but shit.

The only who think this is great, is, unironically, hambeasts. This is pretty much selling a power fantasy to those hateful ugly girls that never managed to sleep with chad and thus hate everyone around her.

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I don't know why anyone thought they would get married after this page.

I'm not doing a panel-by-panel analysis, because i'm mocking the characterization and plotting.

He's not shotting on Talia because Talia is already a bad person.

>yes, user, most comics don't hold up to scrutiny and close reading.
My point is Yea Forums has this "blacklist" and any writer on that list is held to a level of scrutiny that others aren't. I never see any earnest criticism of people like Tomasi, Williamson, Vendetti, Tynion, etc. All total hacks who will never write a comic better than "eh I guess that was alright." But Bendis, Snyder, Aaron, King, etc? "OMG THIS CHARACTER SAID THIS I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!! SEND DEATH THREATS!!"

It's borderline cult-like. And heaven forbid someone speaks out against the hivemind. This place is like fucking reddit, just the flip-side of the coin.

Same as Catwoman, then.

Talia killed her own son.

Catwoman sold her daughter.

that's because the first list of writers are boring, so they just get quietly ignored. They don't do hilariously hackish things like the second list. They're more fun to hate, so they get more hate. Simple, really.

Honestly I find "boring" a lot more offensive than "bad". At least "bad" drives a conversation (like you just said, it's fun to hate them). At least I remember "bad". Half the crap on the racks isn't worth the paper it's printed on but no one wants to say so.

Also notice Vendetti was on that list when he wrote GL. Now that it's Hawkman nobody cares anymore. Tynion seems to get a pass simply because he panders to character fags with muh feels pages (look at Clatface in Detective Comics), despite plenty of his work being not particularly good.

No she didn't, she gave her up for adoption.

>Talia trained with a sword her entire life
>Selina does not
>Selina wins the sword fight
There's more than one way to shit on a character. Jobbing is one of them

I don't really dedicate any thought to books I find boring. It's even more a waste of time than thinking about shitty books.

Catwoman never killed Helena.

Right. Bad can be entertaining. Boring never is. One of the best experiences I ever had at the movie theatre was Pompeii. That movie was SO fucking bad it was hilarious. I'd much rather read America Chavez than anything by Tynion, because at least it'll be entertaining (for the wrong reasons, but whatever.)

You've Catwoman also literally saying that Talia doesn't deserve Batman because she isn't as great as him, and in fact not great at all. This before going on a spiel about Batman also not being a great man and actually a fucking manchild.

She "trained" with the swords but if you actually read the page you'd understand the point King is making; that the lazarus pit is a safety net and that Selina never needed one because she had to learn how to land on her feet.

RA'S IS A MASTER SWORDMAN AND HE TRAINED TALIA BY KILLING HER OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL SHE LEARNED.

Catwoman growing up poor in Gotham doesn't compare. King's an idiot.

Come on, user. That's flimsy as hell. Tom King was just out to shit on Talia to pander to Batcat shippers.

Attached: Catforce 02.jpg (1988x3056, 813K)

>power levels !
Opinion discarded

That's kind of a silly thing to >imply when your future husband has died and come back, and so has his son.

That would be like if a non-meta retired therapist who slept her way to her degree managed to get the jump on all the Trinity at once.

Catwoman could easily defeat Batman, according to King.

Attached: Catforce 03.jpg (1988x3056, 2.83M)

she beat three Flashes at once, she could handle one Batman in her sleep.

He really is the king of the white knights.

Catwoman in fact was shown to be better than Batman in that arc. At first Talia fought Batman in a sword-fight, besting him, and then Catwoman took his sword - from his back might i add - and fought Talia, easily besting her.

Batman in Tom King's run is like that fat kid that was never picked to play basketball. He's totally ineffectual.

Attached: Batman v05 - The Rules of Engagement (2018) (Digital) (Zone-Empire).cbr-Batman (2016-) v05 - The Rul (1988x3056, 985K)

Harley is a meta.

>better yank the thing that might be stopping my future husband from bleeding out
how you can tell Tom King has never actually seen combat

Great writing. This is what these anons are defending.

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King is a cuck on a level rarely seen before.

What the actual fuck am I looking at?

Reminder Yea Forums hates that, but considers this high art

Attached: file.png (640x984, 943K)

Really pissed me off what King did to Bane here. These writers need to stop portraying Big Guy as some Huge primitive drugged up Brute. He's fucking more than that.

Go to bed King.

When the anons here are mocking people for preferring Snyder over this shit. Fuck, give me Bendis. Give me ANYONE. I just want to see Batman be an actual hero, you know?

>. I just want to see Batman be an actual hero, you know?
If only there was 80 years of published material to select from

Why is little Jonathan so adorable? They gave him anime eyes on purpose, didn't they?

Well, there's no one there shitting on Batman, or the Bat-Family, or Batman's exes, or anything like that. If anything, you've Batman and Superman being good friends. So i can see why people would prefer this.

Have you seen how King writes Superman and Batman friendship? It's like he has never bonded with another male. It's this awkward thing where the two don't know how to interact with one another and Batman is constantly stuttering like a scared little kid.

He has 80 years of being a hero because he's a hero. Fans will therefore want Batman to be the hero since that's who he is. Not whatever walking set of chesticles King is tickling his ballsack to this week.

Uhh, sweetheart? I saw Batman & Robin, I'm pretty sure I know what Bane is like.

>Have you seen how King writes Superman and Batman friendship?
All I know is the "date night" 2-parter, and the 3-pager from Batman Secret Files. Thought both were great.

Heaven forbid someone does another take on the character. If no one ever tried anything new we'd still be reading Golden Age Batman. I swear you people just want the same thing over and over and over again. You know none of this shit is permanent right?

>Have you seen how King writes Superman and Batman friendship?
Yeah, it's fine.

>Heaven forbid someone does another take on the character
It's not another take on the character. He took the hero out of the hero, he doesn't have a character at all.

Writers are welcome to do new takes. Readers are welcome to not like it.

That's fine. If you want to see Batman punch this month's villain, you still have Tomasi's Tec.

It's fucking terrible, is what it is.
>and the 3-pager from Batman Secret Files
The one where Superman is a cunt to Batman and make him feel insecure about himself?

>Fuck, give me Bendis

Five issues in you'd be bitching about him just as you're doing with King, you hypocrite.

>Readers are welcome to not like it.
Doesn't mean they have to be little bitches.

>The one where Superman is a cunt to Batman and make him feel insecure about himself?
Lol. Yeah, this is called a hate-boner.

Neck yourself King.

>Heaven forbid someone does another take on the character. If no one ever tried anything new we'd still be reading Golden Age Batman. I swear you people just want the same thing over and over and over again. You know none of this shit is permanent right?
This. As long as it's different it's good. It doesn't matter how bad you think it is as long as it isn't the same as it was before.
Fucking retards can't handle this.

That's entitled little bitches, thank you very much.

There's a middle ground between standard superhero punch-em-ups and the protagonist being an ineffectual manchild the writer hates wallowing in self-pity for 70+ issues.

You be the judge.

Attached: Superman makes Batman insecure about himself 1.jpg (1600x2460, 815K)

HURR! BANE!

Attached: Bane of Humanity.jpg (1044x695, 150K)

yes, how dare they want good comics and not like bad comics. How very dare they.

I already read the story, don't need to post it for me. I just find it hilarious that was your take-away. If the wind blew your hat off you'd blame God.

WOW, WHAT A GREAT FRIENDSHIP.
>Then you can fight as i fight, as you should fight.
>With true strength
How very nice of you Superman. I bet Batman won't feel like shit.

Attached: Superman makes Batman insecure about himself 2.jpg (1600x2460, 698K)

If God makes the wind He is responsible and I will see Him in court.

What take should i take? This whole thing was made just so Batman could wallow in self-pity once more.

>the protagonist being an ineffectual manchild the writer hates wallowing in self-pity for 70+ issues
Hateboner.

Every time I see a page and think "Modern Batman can't get worse" there's another one to prove me wrong.

I have a feeling that's the straw that broke the camel's back.

>This. As long as it's different it's good.
Agreed totally. There's so much phoned-in hackery in this industry, all I ever want is something new, something with ambition. Based on what I've seen from Yea Forums, they want what's familiar, what's comfortable, what's easy.

If I want punch-bad-guy Batman, I can read that already. If I want whacky goofy Batman, I can read that already. I don't mind depressed Batman. It's new. And in the future if someone wants that take it will be there for them.

Hell, you can read the letter columns for Batman: Year One and see a bunch of people sperg out. Ditto Peter David's Hulk. I'm convinced comic fans have always been tasteless, retreating into their comfort zones, not knowing a good comic if it bit them on the nose.

MAY THE BLUE DONG OF MANHATTAN REBOOT THE UNIVERSE!

This. What fans want doesn't matter. Fans are cancer. Comics are art. Art should be done to please the creator, not the people paying for it.

King has made it eminently clear what he thinks of Batman repeatedly throughout his run, with pages like . Batman is consistently made to play second fiddle to Catwoman. He is consistently manipulated, rendered ineffectual, or otherwise made useless by third parties. He consistently falls into self-pity and depression.

There comes a point where it gets tiresome and repetitive, and we passed it back in WOJAR.

>I don't mind depressed Batman. It's new.
Oh, come on. You've depressed Batman even in the fucking movies!

Attached: interesting.jpg (382x391, 74K)

>depressed Batman is new
lmao what

>I'm convinced comic fans have always been tasteless, retreating into their comfort zones, not knowing a good comic if it bit them on the nose.

DING DING DING DING!!

To the extend in which he's been psychoanalyzed during King's run? No.

>Hateboner.
If this isn't self-pity, i don't know what it is.

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Depressed Batman might be new, but the way King is writing it, it's uninteresting. Fucking Humphries did depression/anxiety better in a single fucking issue of Green Lanterns than King has managed to do in his entire oeuvre.

Depressed Batman isn't new

Tom King's Batman isn't a bad comic.

To the extent King is leaning into it and making it a central focus of his run, it is.

The perspective on that drawing will never stop triggering me

>psychoanalyzed
Nigga, Batman is possibly the most deconstructed capeshit hero there is. Right now Detective Comics is showing the awful influence Batman has on his villains and third-parties, Batman and the Outsiders that Batman is a terrible leader and caretaker, the Justice League is showing that Batman can easily be lead to betray those around him if he's promised the means to "fix" the world, and so on. If there's anything Batman hasn't be for a long time, is a hero. THAT would be a new take.

You're right, it's terrible.

>psychoanalyzed
The levels of fart-sniffing smugness coming from this post...

Should I have used a different word, you fucking moron?

>you fucking moron
Ah, your true colors come out as soon as someone points out what a pretentious ass you are.

why did he kill himself?

What's the problem with this page though? It's just addressing the inherent contradiction in Batman; the peak of human achievement playing dress-up and doing amazing thing.
You read the words, you look at the pictures and you that's the full scene.

I used a word, the correct word, to describe a thing. Why you're having an aneurysm over it is beyond me. Go see your doctor.

He realised King was writing him.

Bad future.

It is. Inconsistent art veering into abject garbage when Janin shits out issues and a meandering story with excessive amounts of filler and navel-gazing.

It's Batman feeling self-conscious about dressing up as a bat, in a world full of grown men that dressed up something or another. And why would Batman feel self-conscious about that when he purposely chose to dress as a bat for pragmatic reasons? It was purely scare tactics.

But King see Batman as a ridiculous character, so he has point fingers to it.

>Go see your doctor
>he thinks everyone has a psychiatrist
I think I see where the problem is. You're some mentally unfit person who goes to a therapist regularly and is projecting their life onto Batman.

That wasn't the claim though. Plus just because it's new doesn't mean that it's good just as much as it doesn't mean it's bad. In this thread already, people have defended objectively illogical things with the defense that it fits into King's themes. I'm gonna go out on a limb that that's not gonna bode well for how this run is remembered in the long run.

It's a deconstruction. Big deal.

Making fun of something isn't a deconstruction.

Seeing a hero fucking miserable isn't interesting, but seeing them overcome it is

>Plus just because it's new doesn't mean that it's good just as much as it doesn't mean it's bad
I can only speak for myself, and for myself, new is almost always good. Frankencastle? Book it. Spider-Ock? Hell yeah. Ric Grayson? Well, maybe not this one.

Bad deconstruction.

>It's Batman feeling self-conscious about dressing up as a bat, in a world full of grown men that dressed up something or another.
It's still considered eccentric in DC to do so.
>why would Batman feel self-conscious about that when he purposely chose to dress as a bat for pragmatic reasons?
Pragmatic reasons? Bruce is a drama kid, Scare tactics are theatrical.

Many other writers have done deconstructions of Batman, and many of them have done a much better job.

>Bruce dressing as a bat?
>ridiculous, worthy of mockery
>Selina dressing as a cat and constantly meowing?
>nah, that's fine. You go girl. SLAAAAY QUEEN

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It's not even an deconstruction, it's just fact. You trained your body and mind to a razor edge just so you can be masked crimefighter? But the page is clearly shown Batman just conquering this castle single handily.

>It's still considered eccentric in DC to do so.
Green Arrow cosplay as Errol Flyin and nobody says anything about it.

I wonder why fans of Batman don't like this.

Why hasn't it attracted the hordes of female fans that I'm told just need a little pandering to buy comics?

Spider-Ock was garbage unless someone that wasn't Slott was writing him. The most memorable moment from Superior Spider-Man was literally the page where Green Goblin realizes that the real Spider-Man was back.

Thank you for your input on my personal preferences.

I'm angry about how poorly Janin blended his Batman model to his castle model

He does look ridiculous like why does he even have this? You're not supposed to take Batman this seriously, he's a fantastical character fantastical and the funniest thing is that he is so straight faced about it.
Do you hate Adam West's Batman too for dare making of your lord savior, Batman?

>Green Arrow cosplay as Errol Flyin and nobody says anything about it.
Yeah they do.

>Do you hate Adam West's Batman too for dare making of your lord savior, Batman?
Adam West Batman never made fun of Batman. See, this is what people like you don't get it. You can do a fun take on the character without mocking the concept. Adam West Batman was super sincere. There was a love for the character and his world. No character would ever stop Batman and make fun of him for dressing as a bat.

Kings off the book. Sucks for you faggot lol.

>I wonder why fans of Batman don't like this.
Because they all got a batstick up their asses.

Tell me one thing, if Batman is ridiculous and deserving of mockery, why the same is never extended to Catwoman? She's a 30 year old single woman who literally dresses as a sexy cat and meow . She actually "meow". All the fucking time. You know how cringe that is? A grown ass woman meowing to random people?

But the book never mocks her. If anything, you've random characters either fawning or popping a boner over her.

>Adam West Batman never made fun of Batman
Yeah it did.

just because a concept is inherently silly does not mean you should constantly mock the protagonist of your supposedly serious book.

He looks ridiculous because king dressed him ridiculously (via the script) for the sole purpose of shitting on him through a grown woman who crawls around in a tight leather catsuit and meows like a deranged person

You're the asshole who seems to hate Batman and loves this ridiculous shit.

You've never watched Adam West Batman

He doesn't know this because he's a child who's never actually watched 66

>But the book never mocks her. If anything, you've random characters either fawning or popping a boner over her.
Because she's sexy and confident, and most importantly she's playful about it.

Adam West Batman was a faithful adaptation of the Batman comics at the time.

Fuck off.

I'm sorry, is King's Batman supposed to be a parody book? Is that the tactic you're trying now that you've realized he does in fact mock Batman constantly? It's stopped being a serious psychoanalysis of a depressed orphan and started being "oh you're supposed to laugh at him?"

And Batman is cool, or else you wouldn't have a bunch grown man wanting to be like Batman, but the book never expose Batman as a manly and cool guy. No, he's self-conscious, he's insecure, he's depressed, he's ineffectual, he talks like a robot.

Dumbass they weren't making fun of Batman. Camp motherfucker

It's on the internet so it's now more readily available than ever. Adam West's Batman was a tongue in cheek parody and everyone knew it.

Are you 14? Seriously. It's as if youve only ever seen lego Batman. Goddamn that ironic "oh batman's such a joke" shit Warners shilled to you faggots under gookihara and Nelson was so goddamn poisonous. They truly have run the Batman brand through the fucking mud.

a parody of what, exactly? The comics at the time weren't that far removed tonally from the show.

I'm sure if there was internet back then you'd have all the Golden Age Batman enthusiasts REEEEEEing online just like you guys are now

Batman 66 is a straight up comedy. The comics were never that

Yeah they kinda were because camp doesn't mean you're taking shit seriously.

Parodying what? Do you have any idea what that word means?

You wouldn't know because you've never read them. Batman is a straight man to absurd situations in both.

"Making fun of something" implies a negative. They were HAVING FUN with the material, and Adam took his role seriously. Shut the fuck up about shit you don't know about

>Adam West Batman never made fun of Batman.

Yes it did. It refused to take the material serious and made it comical instead. It didn't mock Batman, but very obviously was making (lovingly) fun of the outlandish nature of the concept. That's why it is so goddamn campy

Yeah and they were making fun of them.

>It refused to take the material serious and made it comical instead
Do you have ANY idea what material was in comics at the time that show aired? The Batman YOU know didn't come to fruition until the 80s

>Adam took his role seriously.
No he didn't, he was a serious dramatic with a mask that had a penciled on eyebrows.

Golden Age Batman was serious and spooky. Adam West Batman was making fun of and parodying the concept of dressing up like a bat. YOU don't know ANYTHING about this topic.

Because the comic portrays Catwoman as someone Batman views as his salvation

I've read some SA Batman. It was whimsical, clearly meant for kids. Batman 66 however I can say was clearly meant as a comedy for the parents that would be watching it, no different than Lucy or Beverly Hillbillies. There are a lot more things in common with 60s Batman comics and the TV than there are different, but Batman 66 stands as a pretty unique Batman experience.

>kingfags are so desperate to not "lose" an argument they're now claiming kings Batman isn't trash because 60s Batman made fun of Batman.
Just go read a fucking novel or an indie. You hate cape comics/dumb incel nerds/angry manchildren/stupid overly serious silly characters so just stop being culture vultures and fuck off.

>"Making fun of something" implies a negative.
No it doesn't you sensitive little bitch.

>Golden Age Batman was serious and spooky.
this isn't true. The golden age went for 20 years that was Batman in the early 40s. This is how I know you've never read golden age Tec.

This is all about King addressesing the absurdity of Batman like the 60s show did and how this isn't like Vendetta King has against Batman. It's Batman: Earth one, some people just can't take the idea of anything less than a book that adores Batman.

Kill yourself Kingfag

She's 30 years old? I thought she was in her early 20s? Anyways, the reason why people don't mock Catwoman for what she wears or how she acts is because of their fetishes.

>zebra suit was serious and spooky
holy fuck you're seriously this dumb

>It's Batman: Earth one, some people just can't take the idea of anything less than a book that adores Batman.
I loved Batman: Earth One. I fucking despise King's run.

You say this like someone has to find that enjoyable.

Why can't you understand that despite you liking it many people didn't? I fail to see why these discussions become an indictment. Nobody is an idiot for not liking king, nobody is brilliant for liking him and neither converse is automatically true. The thing is people who hate king have always just wanted to express that and people who enjoy him just cannot seem to avoid claiming everyone who dislikes it is somehow an idiot.

lol

King run has all be about how Batman is awful and ridiculous, and Bruce Wayne is a sick person who needs help.

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Good, anything to get him to stop fucking ruining Superman literally anything.

It isn't Batman earth one tho...? If it was I wouldn't care so much.

>some people just can't take the idea of anything less than a book that adores Batman

THE
PERIODICAL
IS
CALLED
BATMAN

Why would I buy anything that doesn't want me to enjoy it?!?

McDonald's doesn't try to talk me out of a Big Mac in favor of a Filet O Fish...

Not really an argument at all. And that you think she's in her 20s is absurd.

Be honest.

Have you ever bought a floppy in your life?

Buying floppies is supporting an obsolete means of distribution. If you had more than 2 brain cells you'd read digitally or in collected editions.

>This is all about King addressesing the absurdity of Batman
And tackling the tough issues of mental illness and deconstructing the character and making his mark? Either this is a satire or a deconstruction, you can't have it both ways.

What's the matter, you don't want to be SUBVERTED?

>you can't have it both ways.
Why? They aren't that far apart

Yes, it was a failing kids comic and the TV show turned into a camp fest that was laughing along side with the cooky idea of a guy dressing up as a bat to fight crime

Remember when Batman couldn't stop gang war between his villains nor save all the people that were dying as a consequence - but had plenty of time to fuck Catwoman - and resorted to give a dinner? So the villains could talk it out? And then lost his shit and tried to kill the Riddler? And because the Joker stopped him thought that the Joker's his mentor now - like, what the fuck - and feared that Catwoman wouldn't want to marry after knowing this?

Yeah, what the fuck was that about.

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Honest question, has Batman ever saved someone in the entirety of King's run?

BATMAN BEING ABLE TO DO SOMETHING? IN KING'S RUN?
The horror.

Shit, when is he going to review shit like Civil War II or America?

Hmmm, sweetie, you see, this is a deconstruction, also a satire, also a masterpiece.

No, mocking does. Making fun can be also taken as being entirely playful and cordial, like ribbing with a friend.

So that's no. Fuck off you literal child.

t. retard

>Why can't you understand that despite you liking it many people didn't?

Why can't you understand that despite you not liking it many people did?

Will King finally seek therapy for his own psychological problems?

I addressed this in that very reply. I understand people like it, I don't like that they can't accept criticism of it without calling people dumb.

This. Yea Forums is literally the only place I see disdain for King's Batman. I do enjoy the amount of seething it creates

King I believe is everything that is wrong with comics today. A man who's intent on taking away everything that makes the medium what it is in the name of realism. Perhaps many feel that King's Batman is an adult take on the character that they can show to other none-comics readers to impress them, or show how their comic book hobby is not childish. However, I don't see how King's embarrassing writing could be perceived as anything but comical. I think it's the result of a warped perspective on comics that's born from years of simply misunderstanding the medium, while also wanting to fundamentally change it to something completely different.

Yes he is.

>Gee isn't it ironic how people who claim to want happiness are actually unhappy?

You've never bought a floppy in your life it's pretty obvious youre pretty young and likely don't have any real connection to Batman outside of memes and a few cartoons and films. Of course you don't care that the main Batman comic is being shit up by a guy who wants to shit on Batman as an idea, it amuses you that people care for the character at all.

I wasn't surprised by the support that King has been getting. It's twitter, and everyone wants to get their virtual badge of honour by defending the oppressed. Even then numbers don't lie. I saw a comic book shop owner mentioning how the numbers of people buying King's Batman is falling and how they've been ordering less and less of his run every month. People can get as loud as they want but it won't change the facts.

At least here we're more honest,

>Yea Forums is literally the only place I see disdain for King's Batman
Once again the Hacker known as Yea Forums has had a huge impact on the world.

Well a lot of the criticism is dumb.

Maybe they're just cutting floppies because it's a stupid way to consume comics and are trade waiting like me?

This meant for:
Then leave Yea Forums. Aside from blue checks who get free review copies and literal faggots with pronouns I see plenty of people rip his Batman on social media

> Perhaps many feel that King's Batman is an adult take on the character that they can show to other none-comics readers to impress them, or show how their comic book hobby is not childish
People in America still need to do this?

Tell me more things about myself, you're very imaginative.

>. A man who's intent on taking away everything that makes the medium what it is in the name of realism

By writing Batman in a way you don't personally like. Take a chill pill, drama queen. If you hate King why not read Detective Comics? It's not like you don't have fucking options.

>Perhaps many feel that King's Batman is an adult take on the character that they can show to other none-comics readers to impress them, or show how their comic book hobby is not childish. However, I don't see how King's embarrassing writing could be perceived as anything but comical.
This is really the hard truth kings fans don't seem able to accept. The man writes like a teenage girl. If you show his comics to normal, well-adjusted people they'll literally say "that's dumb" or "they print that? That does sound like Batman at all"

It's such a bizarre fanset

In your opinion. Which they find dumb. That you're incapable of accepting this is truly telling.

Trying to parlay with the villains as Bruce Wayne is pretty smart though. As Bruce Wayne he has money and influence but also can keep control of the situation.
Of course this is all whining about how Batman isn't Batgod.

If it had worked, it'd be a smart thing. Bruce being able to do something as a Wayne than as Batman, but it was a huge failure. Just something done for King to show the depths of Batman desperation.

>If you show his comics to normal, well-adjusted people they'll literally say "that's dumb" or "they print that?
To be fair, you can apply this to almost every superhero comic ever printed.

>If you show his comics to normal, well-adjusted people they'll literally say "that's dumb" or "they print that?

As if "normal, well-adjusted people" don't say that about 99% of all comics, you disingenuous fucktard.

If king wants to write garbage why doesn't he do so in creator owned books?

>Of course this is all whining about how Batman isn't Batgod
You've just invented a point to respond to. Why not just focus on what people have actually posted?

Yeah, multiple times. Almost too many to actually list really, so I guess you just to trawl through all of King's run if you want to say otherwise.

Name three instances. Just three.

You seem to have missed the part where I was responding to kingfags desperately wanting to be able to show normies a comic and say "see it's serious art!" which is laughable since king writes like a middle school girl particularly in regard to his dialogue.

This for you as well, faggot.

He was speaking in hypothetical and being critical of it, so maybe you're the one that missed it.

>As if "normal, well-adjusted people" don't say that about 99% of all comics, you disingenuous fucktard.
To be honest, even a normal, well-adjusted person who may have liked the Nolan movies would turn his nose to this trite. This reads like emo girl MySpace profiler.

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Considering how well superhero movies are doing, normies might not react like that.

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Look at this dude's body. What the hell is he pulling his gut in for?

No, you were literally making a strawman argument based on another post that was hilariously making baseless assertions about how people who like King probably want to impress non-readers by showing them King Batman and say "see this is ART!"

That is from a cross-over, and it was written by Williamson, not King. You lost the game on your first try.

The movie are nothing like the comics as an experience

Most people don't care about the source comics. They care about the movies. You show them any comic that isn't like the movie adaptation and they would most likely have a dismissive response.

What about all these "comic fans" that have been popping out the woodwork?

You mean the people that order Infinity War the comic and have no fucking idea what's happening or why they ordered it?

Tom King is always trying to pander to movie-goers. Case in point, Batman here using the BvS costume. Even then i bet you Zack Snyder's fans would read this shit and say "What the fuck is this mess?"

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He means people who order Infinity Gauntlet, read it once, then don't read any more comics until another movie comes up and they read online what comic it's loosely based on and then maybe order that comic as well.

Yes, those kinds of people.
I only bought that Black Panther epic collection because of the movie and it was so much better than the movie, like holy shit

>BvS costume
>an arc called "Knightmare"
>several issues named after quotes from the movie like "what falls remain fallen"
>now is literally aping the plot of Dark Knight Rises
God, King is so transparent with his pandering.

>You lost the game on your first try.
well like I said, you have to trawl through king's run to save otherwise.

I bet you King's big idea was to have Bruce lose his shit and start to kill like in BvS.

>picking up Simonson's Thor and Planet Hulk because of Ragnarok
If this happened for real, it would be a good thing.

isn't the very first thing he does in the first issue steering an airplane away to save people? that was fucking dope by the way. reminded me of something Morrison would do. riding an airplane like a horse.

Just give me anyone from King's run. It shouldn't be this hard. And no, Gotham Girl doesn't count, because she ended losing her shit and becoming a villain because of Batman.

Tom King and Zack Snyder are too smart for modern audiences.

yeah an airplane is gonna crash into the city and he steers it into the water

Batman stops supervillains ergo he os saving lives. Are you gonna argue against that otherwise? Is the fact that he is a superhero fighting supervillains not proof that he is saving lives?

there you go he saved a bunch of people right out of the gate

As an admitted Zack Snyder fan, who goes as far as believing that Sucker Punch is smarter than the critics gave credit, i've to say that Tom King is easily one of the worst Batman writer.

BvS Batman was in the wrong and only ended up making things worse, but at least he did something.

>Gotham Girl doesn't count, because she ended losing her shit and becoming a villain because of Batman.
>because of Batman
Wrong.

The Joker will kill people if he himself is not killed. Batman's decision not to kill the Joker dooms thousands every time he makes it.

Okay, the airplane. I accept it.
What super-villain has he stopped? He has been played with by Bane from the start.

It's just making fun references. That's all it is.
If you think this counts as pandering you're an idiot.
>now is literally aping the plot of Dark Knight Rises
You mean Knightfall which DKR is partly based on?

Because of Batman, yes. Batman failed her.

He literally beat the shit outta Mr. Freeze to the point that he is now genuinely frightened of Bats.

>You mean Knightfall which DKR is partly based on?
Mo. DKR. Bane will be driving Batman out of his town and taking over his city, with his minions, the Batman villains, ruling the city for him. That's literally the plot of Nolan's DKR.

Which was shown to be wrong, and then Bruce tried to defend Mr. Freeze in the courtroom.

Hugo Strange, Joker, Kite Man, Freeze...

No that's the plot of Knightfall you fucking retard.

No, the plot of Knightfall was Bruce breaking his back and Azrael taking over as Batman.

IDK why people say King's run is so depressing. The reason why I like it so much more than Snyder, and the most since Morrison, is because of how fun it can be. Off the top of my head you got the airplane thing, Batburger, the double date with Superman/Lois. Admittedly I haven't read the run since the early 40s because I'm waiting for it to finish so I can marathon it, but from what I remember I remember having a lot of fun. Yeah there were serious moments but it didn't take itself nearly as seriously as Snyder did.

Oh and the Kite Man stuff. Forgot about that.
And the dialogue is very fun and playful. Versus Snyder's walls of text and exposition dumping.

>Bane will be driving Batman out of his town and taking over his city, with his minions, the Batman villains, ruling the city for him

Basically everything except the rogues working under Bane happens in Knighftall (and even that's debatable because Knightfall starts with Bane specifically releasing people from Arkham, so while indirectly, they worked for Bane's master plan) you fucking casual.

Hugo Strange was part of Bane's keikaku, Joker was beat by Catwoman, Kite Man had his life by Batman ineffectualness, Freeze was Batman literally beating an innocent because Catwoman left him.

After which Bruce does what, user? WHAT DOES HE DO?
HE LEAVES FUCKING GOTHAM

Because it's a meme that King is a suicidal mental case who uses comics as his suicide note/therapy. That's why everybody just uses the same flawed argument when whining about King.

The funny moments are all done in a self-aware mocking tone that is literally meant to make fun of Batman as a concept. Like the Batburger.

Batman doesn't leave Gotham, though. He sulks in the cave.

Uhh, no sweetheart, he goes out looking for Tim Drake's parents abroad.

He literally leaves on an around the world trip to get his back healed and then hangs out with Shiva while re-training to be ready to take down Azrael.

>Because it's a meme that King is a suicidal mental case who uses comics as his suicide note/therapy.
Explain Mister Miracle, Omega Men, Batman, Vision, Heroes in Crisis...

That's fine. I fine it entertaining the same way I found Batman Incorporated entertaining.

Selina plays an intergral part in this run as well and will most definitely get back together with Bruce in the end. King's run has more TDKR aspects than Knightfall.

KILL YOURSELF FAGGOT

this isn't even about power levels, this is about basic fucking knowledge

it'd be like some idiot on Yea Forums making the next godfather because he watched a youtube video

king shit on characters like talia, flashes, etc to constantly boost selina. it's a horrible writing crutch, it's hackery 101

Vision is a tragedy. Omega Men is akin to Sheriff of Babylon, a dark look at war and how it affects people. Omega Men does it from the perspective of freedom fighters, Sheriff from the POV of the occupation.

>it'd be like some idiot on Yea Forums making the next godfather because he watched a youtube video

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Not to mention constantly referencing past runs that featured the Batcat romance so he doesn't have the develop their romance in his own book. He just needs to reference Year One and other tales over and over, and be done. There you go. The greatest romance there ever was in the making.
Lets ignore that in the canon preceding King's run Catwoman wasn't even aware that Batman was Bruce Wayne. Why should he address that can of worms? Too much work. Lets simple skip all the development and use the work as better writers as a crutch to not have to put any work.

King is the definition of hack writing.

Batman and Catwoman have decades worth of romantic entanglements, why is there need to build a romance that already exists?

Because it didn't existed in the canon Tom King's working with? That those decades of romantic entanglements were done by good writers who didn't think like King otherwise there wouldn't be anything at all. Because Tom King has dedicated 75+ issues on this romance and couldn't even arse himself to build up the relationship?

>Because it didn't existed in the canon Tom King's working with?

Rebirth, bitch.

It still doesn't stop Tom King from being a lazy hack.

So everyone that references a past comic is a hack?

When using as a crutch to not put any work? Yes. Absolutely.

What a hack argument.

remember when Janin made an effort on Batman
Yeah me neither
I miss Grayson, I feel like King needs someone like Seeley to keep him in check while writing

>hey so now I make him super depressed and edgy
>Uhhhhhh Tom you sure about that? How about we have some funny dialogue
>Oh I guess thats okay

I think it's clever how he's using continuity. We give credit to Morrison for that all the time.

Because Morrison was clever about it.

if it hasn't been already, it's become painfully clear that grayson was due to seeley inspite of king

The difference is that Morrison puts in the work. Take the whole Kathy Kane thing. He didn't just referenced their past canon together, he reworked them to fit a new context, made it a part of the ongoing plot, and when the character came back she wasn't simple the old Kathy Kane anymore. The little reference to the past tales was like 1% of the whole.

Meanwhile the Batcat relationship in King's entirely built on the past tales and their importance, all so he could run straight to the aborted wedding. Every time he wants to show why Catwoman is so important to Batman, he does by reference a moment in past books.

I just don't see what the problem is. You people freak out over every single aspect of King's Batman. If you guys hate it so much why do you spend so much time talking about it?

>all so he could run straight to the aborted wedding.

Which is part of Bane's plan and their relationship and what it means to Bruce and how being abandoned has wrecked him has been a central part of the run.

This. If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

That has more to do with Bane and the ongoing keikaku than the Batcat relationship itself. So you agree that the romance has been nothing but an artifice?

Not even that, I understand popping into a thread for a bit, but look at the fucking post count, and this is the second Tom King thread to hit bump limit today. Why talk so much about something you hate?

Because the man has been ruining beloved characters and people are angry.

People in these threads have a lengthy investment in Batman as a character, in time and sometimes in money.

This. You shouldn't be so negative. Let people who actually LIKE comics talk about them for a change.

The meaning, significance and impact of the relationship is been explored through things like Bane's plan, Knightmares, etc. Has it been flowery romance? No. But it doesn't need to be. All the fans already know they're in love, it'd redundant. King is exploring what the romance means to Batman.

>ruin

Stop being a drama queen. If you hate King's Batman you can read Detective that isn't tied to his run at all.

That's all lost when the bulk of this such profound romance is based on references to past work that shouldn't even be canon anymore. It's a literal house of cards. You don't get to see why Batman loves Catwoman so much in this run, you're just told that he does. There's a disconnect.

>You don't get to see why Batman loves Catwoman so much in this run, you're just told that he does. There's a disconnect.
Their relationship has already been explored through 80 years of comics. Kings run is meant to be the culmination of that long will-they won't-they.

> Kings run is meant to be the culmination of that long will-they won't-they.
But it's not. The writers to come will keep it up anyway.

>You don't get to see why Batman loves Catwoman so much in this run

It's pretty clear it's because he sees Catwoman as the only person who actually gets him and sees who he really is beyond the costume, and because Bruce thinks Selina is the only person who can actually make his life happy. It's directly stated in the comic.

have you read it user? It's not

>Kings run is meant to be the culmination of that long will-they won't-they.
Very convenient, don't you think? That King only need to give the conclusion.

Stated, not shown. You don't see why or how she makes him happy, if anything she's only shown mocking him or putting him down.

Well for him this is the ultimate Batman romance. I like it because Catwoman has always been "the one" despite the constant carousel of girlfriends Batman and Bruce Wayne have had over the years, it's always been her, and it had to go somewhere eventually. I just like romance stories in general and always thought Batman and Catwoman was such an interesting one over the years. One being a crook, the other being a crimefighter, and how they reconcile that. I also think the way he's referencing their past encounters is really well done. Batman Annual #2 was a spectacular standout issue. It's fine that other writers will come and do their own thing. That's what comics is all about.

He previously said it would lead into his 15 issue end story.

lol whoops.

>I like it because Catwoman has always been "the one"
I never felt that way though. It's not Selina he had a kid with.

>>hey so now I make him super depressed and edgy
>>Uhhhhhh Tom you sure about that? How about we have some funny dialogue
>>Oh I guess thats okay
This didn't make Grayson good. The last issue King worked on was like this, the stupid song issue and it was by far the worst issue he'd done.
King was still young and humble and untainted back then. Now he's arrogant from all the dick sucking he got, his brain got turned to mush because Trump became president and he almost died of a heart attack. He also got to meet his idols, he talked to industry veterans and personal heroes like Bendis, Waid, Johns and he got some advice.
Trying to give Seeley that much credit when he's a hack and his Grayson issues were far worse is just... a prime example of an idiot Yea Forumsck sucker talking out of his ass.

Ambition is a good thing. All this stuff will be undone by a future writer or Crisis anyway so write every story like it's definitive. Give it more gravitas.

But that's almost just as bad.

Yeah, but King has to use the excuse of "historicity" to don't put any work himself, just use what has been done by better writers and put his finishing touches on it. WHILE FUCKING IT ALL UP.

>Ambition
Theres nothing ambitious about King.

Talia as shown in Son of the Demon is an awesome love interest to Batman, but the way that she is revealed to be conceived by Morrison is a little ... less romantic. But how can you not say Catwoman is the one? She debuted in Batman #1 (same with the Joker, his "the one" in an evil way, lol), and she's been a staple throughout his history. She's always been the love interest that persisted, for 80 years. Your Silver St Clouds, your Julie Madisons, and Vicki Vales have all fallen by the wayside.

And of course it had to be a fellow costumed hero who scales the roofs of Gotham. I think BatmanxCatwoman is an awesome love story over the years and King has put the cherry on top with his run. I just thought I should add my 2 cents because this run doesn't get a lot of love from Yea Forums but I enjoy it quite a bit, and if this news about his run ending is true, that's too bad.

I'd prefer it if writers focused on being good rather than "impactful" or "definitive".
Steve Englehart did that and his Batman is definitive precisely because it focused on being good instead of definitive.

You're happy your ship is prominent in the comic. That is fine. I don't care for it though.

>by Morrison
She was ruined long before that.

>She debuted in Batman #1 (same with the Joker, his "the one" in an evil way, lol), and she's been a staple throughout his history.
As a rogue. Do you also think that the Joker is Batman's main love interest? Or Two-Face?
There's a reason they came up with Batwoman when it came to give him a love interest.

>And of course it had to be a fellow costumed hero who scales the roofs of Gotham.
Batgirl.

>There's a reason they came up with Batwoman when it came to give him a love interest.
Yeah, because Doctor Wertham claimed Batman was a homosexual and they needed to show he wasn't.

Bruce Timm pls go

>As a rogue.
That's what makes it so great though. They begin as enemies then are guarded then develop trust, and eventually lovers. They go through the stages of human relationship over the course of 80 years and experience true character development. Batman and Catwoman's relationship is everything we WANT from comics, and from storytelling.

>I think BatmanxCatwoman is an awesome love story over the years and King has put the cherry on top with his run.
You're aware that Tom King ended the whole romance with the idea that Batman was simple deluding himself into believing that he actually love Catwoman, because he sees her as his life-saving boat, and that the actual truth is that he's a psychopath incapable of loving anyone, right?

So why not pick the reformed Catwoman as a love interest? Why create Batwoman?

But Earth-Two's Batman and Catwoman did have a kid.

Because CCA forbade showing crime as alluring.

You know I always thought Catwoman didn't give a single shit about Batman and just flirted with him so he'd go easy on her. I don't buy this superhero Catwoman one bit.

I've only read up to the mid40s issues, waiting to marathon the rest, so maybe I'm not privy to that if it comes later.

But if it does that's fine too. Sometimes in the best love stories, it doesn't work out in the end, because that's life. Two of my favorite romance movies (La La Land and 500 Days of Summer) have endings where the guy and the girl don't live happily ever after. Batman's a pretty damaged guy. I could see him not being capable of romantic love.

The writers created the idea of Earth-2 Huntress, Batman's daughter turned vigilante over a tragedy, before settling on a mother. Originally that mother was going to be Kathy Kane, ergo Batwoman, who was the default love interest for Batman. The writers, though, eventually felt that Batwoman wouldn't be tragic enough. So they chose Catwoman. Because with Catwoman as a mother and dead, you could have Huntress struggle with the idea that she can end up a criminal like her mother was if she ever cross the line.

This but I don't like the idea of Bruce not loving anyone other than Selina. It's just all around BS.

And because she was a goddamn rogue. She was a femme fatale. You don't date femme fatales, user. They're literally danger. You can only play with them. And be careful to not get burned.

Sorry that you never got your "mytohlogy-defining" storyline, King. Maybe next time :^)

>Originally that mother was going to be Kathy Kane, ergo Batwoman,

I've never heard that, you wouldn't happen to know where they said that, would you?

You know, that is a point. General low sales you can say is just the market but when it sells less than a less valuable IP then it proves that the comic is way lower than it should be.

Although I don't quite get why Tom King is so hated. I believe people talking about him writing his personal issues in the book but I haven't read any examples. Heroes in Crisis was just boring.

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I often think it already has but with films and other media feeding these companies no one has really noticed.

Their cutting his run short, basically the next two issues. Which means they told him to stop writing immediately and anything done is done.

So more of an adminstrative leave.

That is another point, he said he was talking to WB and AT&T about his big exciting plans for Batman. Either the greaseball creeped them out so much they told DC to bench him or someone at DC didn't appreciate him going over their heads.

>I'm almost positive Bendis is going to get Batman and it terrifies me.

Batman must infiltrate super criminals in the GPD by going undercover as the new rookie on the force! Also Bruce's aunt and uncle are living with him for added drama!

>Batman's a pretty damaged guy. I could see him not being capable of romantic love.
It's not even that Yes there is a reason but it's not that It's Bane intentionally screwing Catwoman and Batmans relationship

I really hate that Catwoman is only source for happiness and being dumped by her is more tragic than death of Robin or his parents for King’s Batman.
I’m glad he is leaving and really wish this trend of pushing BatCat will stop with him.

I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, I think King has been subpar. Snyder was a lot better than him even though Snyder sort of ran out of steam towards the end. The only part of King's run that I really enjoyed was the part where Batman built his own Suicide Squad and infiltrated Santa Prisca. The War of Jokes and Riddles was a fun premise but the ending was stupid and everything since then has just been boring.

Bendis is probably going to get Batman and that very well might end up being a bad thing. It's been a long time since he's wrote anything that resonated with me and I really don't want him and his crew taking over all of DC.

We need to use current politics to our favor and meme Christopher Priest into the job.