Think about it. If you travel to the past, that past becomes your future and your former present becomes the past...

>Not once do they discuss the time GPS's capability to traverse alternate timelines though, just their own
If this were the case, then they wouldn't have been able to go back to the main timeline to put the Stones back where they belonged, don't you think?
>He traveled back to another timeline to live with Peggy from the 40's.
Right, the 40's. Except no, he traveled to his own timeline in the 40's, and by doing so he created a branching.

no. Tonys gps thing could take them to a specific time in a specific dimension

Their universe was always going to be the universe that they took the stones and returned them to, the audience (and the writers) just didn't know it yet.

>(in the 70's, when he lived with Peggy)
why do people think this? there is a reason the directors show you a 1940s car, hari and clothes

no because cap puts the stones back immediately after they were taken

Why did they feel the need to point out that the way time travel works in most fiction is bullshit and makes no sense when their own time travel mechanics also make no fucking sense?

>then they wouldn't have been able to go back to the main timeline to put the Stones back where they belonged, don't you think?
The main timeline is never changed, nor were these alternate timelines if he did return the stones to them. He only created new branching timelines where they were returned.

Because it was good for a couple of gags in the movie.

>when their own time travel mechanics also make no fucking sense?
It actually does, and it's what most physicists consider, theoretically speaking, the only way in which time travel would actually work. No predestination bullshit, no "grandfather paradox".
>He only created new branching timelines where they were returned.
NO. Jesus christ.

You'd only be creating more branches because you can't change the past.

What happened between when they decide Hulk wears the gauntlet and nebulon bringing thanos to their timeline? I had to step out to take a piss

Yes, but it's not because of the absence of the Stones themselves, but rather them introducing changes to said past that creates a branch.
The Ancient One's explanation wasn't about changing the past as a whole, but that removing a Stone would create a dark timeline in which they have no defenses against potential threats and creates disbalances in that reality. Obviously, removing a Stone creates a change, but if the Avengers had gone to the 2012 timeline and hadn't taken any of the Stones, they still would've introduced changes, albeit minimal, due to their presence.
And looking at it in another way, what the Ancient Stone warned about was that a timeline without Stones is a doomed timeline... Meaning, the "main timeline" is beyond fucked now.

The difference is the stones were not removed from the main timeline. They still technically exists as space dust or whatever other form the aspects tied to the stones decide to take

True, we still don't know if the Stones can regenerate by themselves in the MCU. They should (as it happens in the comics), but for the time being there's no Stones in 2023.

Just watch it on a pirate site, we already have dvd quality rips.

>we already have dvd quality rips.
Most definitely not, what the fuck?

Not to mention loki escaping

not when you put them back right after they left. It would be like they never left and the timeline doesnt change from there.

No guardians because they left Quill unconscious on that planet and he got eaten by all those super hostile rat lizards.

Time travel in the MCU is just a physical movement from one place to another. Imagine walking into a room that's called "2014" then going into another room called "1970", and an infinite number of locations. Wherever he went to go bang Peggy, he can still come back to "our" room if he knew the coordinates.

But any change that took place between them taking them and putting them back sticks. The Stones don't preserve timelines, they only keep the balance in the Universe. This is another good way to look at it.

You're buying the movie's clumsy explanation for it when Bruce was basically bullshitting the Ancient One to get the stone. There is no undoing timelines. This goes against the rules developed earlier in the movie

>discussing the logistics of TIME TRAVEL in a movie where gods and giant purple titans that want to snap their fingers using colorful space jewelry

Unironically dont think about that. The point of these movies are the characters and how they develop. Nobody spends time talking about how iron mans suit works or how Dr stranges magic does what it does.

Attached: D5bH9muWkAAesTv.jpg (750x650, 60K)

The time travel is the central plot of the movie. If it makes no sense, it hurts character development. Like why is everyone sad about Tony being dead when they can just go back in time and get another Tony?

>Like why is everyone sad about Tony being dead when they can just go back in time and get another Tony?
Because then the other timeline has no Tony and quite frankly, they'd be better off without him. Jesus christ he's insufferable.

because you would be stealing another timelines tony which is fucked up and the avengers wouldnt do that

That's not it, user. Having Cap return the stones discredits everything they built up to that point in regards to time travel mechanics.

Why are you insisting on this? Do you really think Tony would devise a "GPS" mechanism to return to their main timeline, if they couldn't also return them back? Did you take a piss break during the part where he's theorizing the time travel mechanism, using the Moebius strip imagery? What do you think the point of depicting timelines like this was?

Attached: M%C3%B6biusschl%C3%A4if.jpg (1328x824, 78K)

This
The whole point of the issue was that they had no control over where they were going in the Quantum Realm.
It's also why they needed those platforms from the beginning: they let them return to their specific dimension

It's not even central to the plot though.
It's not like something in Back To the Future where Time Travel is what creates the tension and conflicts and obstacles in the story.
In Endgame, the Time Travel shit is mostly just set up for the actual conflicts which are between Avengers and their Past Selves and the Avengers and Thanos.
The Time Travel stuff is mostly just an excuse to have interesting character moments, which are the driving force of the film as a whole

Attached: 90s big titty anime thor gf.jpg (585x704, 311K)

ITT: Brainlets bitching about Cap

but Captain American goes back in time to fuck Peggy screwing over that timeline's Cap and Peggy's husband.

>Except no, he traveled to his own timeline in the 40's, and by doing so he created a branching.
The directors have said he went to an alternate timeline. But even supposing he did go to his same timeline like the writers have said, that doesn't change anything, it just tells us that old Cap was there throughout all these movies and we never see him because he's just living his life.

It is central to the plot. It is what creates the main conflict. They can't go back in time to save everyone if there's no time travel. Why are you being deliberately obtuse?

>Old Cap is a piece of shit who didn't care about Hydra taking crap, Bucky killing people, or 9/11

ugh

not enough time was enough to take place for it to make another timeline. however loki and thanos leaving did

That Timeline's Cap was in the ice.
And did Peggy have a husband? I don't remember that being something brought up in Winter Soldier or Civil War

If returning the stones removes the branching timelines instead of creating more branching timelines, then that also means doing anything in the past can cause changes to their own original timeline. Returning the stones to "clip the branches" makes no sense within the movie's established time travel rules.

it doesnt matter. it was just a plot device to bring back characters and retire others.

Yes, she did. Cap leaving the other cap to be trapped in the ice to go through the pain of No Peggy is pretty messed up.

>The directors have said he went to an alternate timeline.
He was in an alternate timeline that was created AFTER he showed up there, since at that point there were effectively two Caps, when originally there was only one. His mere presence created a different timeline, it's not like he purposely chose one... He simply selected 1940 in his main timeline as his destination, and the quantum reality did the rest.

they find him in the ice though

Yeah, those two timelines (2012 and 2014) are the most drastically changed, the other ones have ripples but nothing serious.

Because I'm arguing that the Time Travel mechanics aren't actually what creates the conflict.
Again, I'll use Back to the Future but in that movie, the mechanics of Time Travel are LITERALLY what creates an obstacle for the main character: he needs to make sure he exists in the future by preserving a past he accidentally meddled with. It's what creates the tension.
In Endgame, there's basically no tension from the Time Travel mechanics themselves: they're just there to let us revisit old movies. The only tension there is the lack of resources to go back and forth from the present to the past freely. But that's more about resource scarcity than anything else.
The actual tension comes from the "heist" which could be happening on just different planets instead of different time periods and it would have worked just as well.
The Time Travel is instead used to set up specific character moments to help various character arcs progress. But that has less to do with the innate mechanics of Time Travel and more to do with the character interactions.
Another example would be Looper: Looper is a film where the core conflict comes from the Time Travel mechanics for Bruce Willis, since he has a time limit on how long he can exist in a meddled past before he loses his memory.

It's almost like they pulled the rules for time travel out of their butts!

The rules are perfectly fine, it's that people honestly can't let go of these characters so they come up with bullshit scenarios to justify certain actions, like saying "woah Cap is a dick for not preventing 9/11".

yeah its central to the plot but its not the main point of the movie.
Also for all we know 9/11 didnt happen in their universe. and bucky doing what he did sets tony and the avengers into motion so its better if he doesnt touch that part of history

Attached: D6D6C1gUUAEggJX.jpg (1200x800, 221K)

I don't know if Cap even knew where to find himself though. I wager he lived his life with Peggy, she ultimately develops Alzheimers and he leaves once she's too far gone

or like saying if cap was with peggy the whole time then sharon carter in winter soldier was his descendant

you know, this one.

Attached: maxresdefault.jpg (1280x720, 235K)

Do you not understand what a niece is?

Grandaunt, no mother.

Not even the writers understand what they wrote so don't bother just turn your brain off dude or just do as I and pretend that infinity war was the end.

It doesnt. I think the test audiences struggled with the time stuff so they had to explain it in a way just to move the story along

>Wouldn't Cap just be traveling back through the original unaffected timeline where they never took the stones?
No, Tony's Stark Time GPS allow to track down the realities they want to go to.

Attached: source.gif (200x150, 1.47M)

Again, why the fuck do people question shit that was openly stated in the movie?

The very concept of time travel makes no fucking sense. It's a fictional concept that some people try to force "realism" into by having different scientific theories that can never be proven injected into them. But it still makes no fucking sense, just like a super man being able to fly because of the power of the sun.

I thought about that to for a moment.
No, it is "aunt peggy" i.e. she most likely had a little brother, maybe her dad remarried to a younger woman and had a son (carried the name) and then that son married a woman about 20 years younger than him (Like my dad who was born in 44) and then he had a daughter (Sharon Carter) in lets say 1986 because that was when Emily VanCamp the actress who played her was born.

So is it only taking the Infinity Stones that creates new timelines or any changes? Is there now a timeline where Loki escapes with a stone so wasn't around for Thor 2? Because it's pretty clear that that Loki is just gonna appear in the 'main' timeline since present day Loki is dead, but that shouldn't be possible right?

How do you not understand by now?

The MCU really should have ended with Infinity War. Change Strange from intentionally giving the stone as part of the plan as a "We lost, nothing else we can do, this will save one person more." and it's kino.

He's not changing the past. He's fixing his own timeline.

I don't necessarily know about that.
I think the only thing Endgame needed was some fix to how Scott gets re-introduced in the plot.
The only other thing I would have changed about Endgame is killing Thanos in the beginning. Keep him around, potentially have him realize the errors of his ways over the 5 year period and he confronts his more prideful, more egotistical past self in the final battle.

I read an article about them adding jokes about Back to the Future because test audiences kept misunderstanding, so blame dumb people

Because I only just saw the movie last night and haven't read anything about this yet.

No dude. What the fuck is wrong with you? How can you be this stupid?

the same way they were able to travel back to their primary timeline instead of only progressing along their new branched one(s)

>it just tells us that old Cap was there throughout all these movies and we never see him because he's just living his life.

Apparently they needed to devote the entire 3 hours runtime to explaining over and over again that there's no time loop and they aren't traveling to their own past, because you fucking morons can't seem to grasp it.

The thing is that what you're suggesting necessitates a total rewrite. I would be happy with a total rewrite too, but it means either way Endgame as we know it is gone.

Reminder:

Avengers Endgame literally name-dropped other movies and brokedown exactly how their time travel works to prevent confusion.

And people like OP are still confused.

Attached: unnamed.jpg (844x624, 77K)

>So is it only taking the Infinity Stones that creates new timelines or any changes?
Any change at all.

The writers for MCU are just quip writers. The plot and basic structure is written by committee headed by Feige. Those writers add dialogue and jokes. Marvel needs to shut them up because they dont know what they are talking about

Oh hey, it's the nine millionth iteration of the same exact thread with a small group of autists (or maybe just one autist?) insisting it's a time loop with pocket universes and making everybody argue in circles. Again.

Attached: had it up to here with your egg stealin.png (120x135, 26K)

But the ancient one specified that messing with the stones created alternate timelines. But it was really literally anything they did? So there now is a different timeline out there where Loki escaped or where Quill never met Gamora and where Thanos ans his forces just disappeared one day?

Does it really matter? so theres a universe with Loki able to fuck around and the Guardians don't exist and the Avengers have to fight Ego. Unless Marvel wants to do something in those universes it's not going to matter.

>And people like OP are still confused.
Maybe because despite your shitty movie references, it's still handled poorly. If it was simple enough for the masses to understand, we wouldn't be having constant threads like this.

>But the ancient one specified that messing with the stones created alternate timelines.
And she was right. It doesn't mean only removing the Stones causes changes, the very presence of them there did. The difference is that removing a Stone or destroying it causes a much larger change in the timeline than betting on a horse race would.
>So there now is a different timeline out there where Loki escaped or where Quill never met Gamora and where Thanos ans his forces just disappeared one day?
Yes indeed.
>Unless Marvel wants to do something in those universes it's not going to matter.
I guess you just didn't pay attention at the rumor that said Loki's series was going to be precisely about him "messing around with historical moments", hinting at him being the version that changed in 2012.

>Does it really matter?
Never said it did, just looking for some type of clarification.

>Yes indeed.
Thanks. But if that's the case then how did Steve show up at the end as an old man? Since when he went back to put the stones back it was to these new alternate timelines.

Attached: endgame had poor writing.png (1400x2100, 55K)

The ending of the movie should have had 4 thanos's (from all the timelines) against the avengers. Missed opportunity.

>But if that's the case then how did Steve show up at the end as an old man?
Because, unlike the others, he didn't come back right away, but keyed a last location in spacetime (Earth-199,999, 1940) and stayed to live his days with Peggy, before finally returning.
The inability of you to follow a simple plot doesn't mean the movie is badly written. There's a lot of hyperbolic, convoluted overthinking around these, but let me answer this one in particular, and the previous question that leads to this:
>why 2014 Nebula had to open the quantum tunnel for Thanos instead of having the ship shrunk...?
Simply because they weren't using the Pym Particles to shrink/enlarge but to traverse the quantum realm, and until Nebula's subjective timeframe, Thanos didn't know how to use them. When Nebula leaves from their 2014 timeline to 2023, Thanos and co. stay to reverse-engineer the Pym particles, and we don't know how long it took them (in fact, the assumption they did it "quickly" is a baseless assumption), from the time she arrives and the time she takes to send them the coordinates. We only have our subjective timeframe to tell, it could've been months in fact.
We don't even know if they actually had to shrink it because the tunnel opens and the ship enlarges instantly, almost destroying the platform.
But this entire section is ridiculous nitpicking and shows you probably didn't watch any of the Ant-Man movies.

When you poke fun of the genre it's a sign you're WITH IT so you can totally have your own stuff be shit.

>he didn't come back right away
But it doesn't show him actually returning, he didn't come back in the machine to this timeline, he was just always there it seems like he did get old in that very timeline.

They don't have to return to the machine every time they jump from a timeline to another, as shown in the scene where they go from 2012 to 1970. As long as they have the particles, they can do these jumps while skipping the platform.
>he was just always there it seems like he did get old in that very timeline.
When Hulk says Cap "missed his timeframe", it only means he came back slightly before the funeral so he wouldn't miss it, from the 1940's to maybe an hour or so beforehand.
I'm sure they could've had him return to the timeline already aged up, but I feel like it would've diminished the emotional impact of the scene, which is why they didn't go for it.

>return to the platform*
fixed

>People are still trying to fight what the movie said, and the directors said, because they so-so desperately want to find a plothole.
The cancer was in you, all along.

Here's how it works, in 100% actuality:
>If your jump through the Quantum Realm would place you at a point in time where your actions could influence the continuity of something you've already experienced, the timeline branches instead and a branch reality emerged
>Those branch realities are now tangible, separate timelines, which can influence and be influenced by each other
>You can travel to any branch reality without creating a new branch reality as long as you aren't entering that branch reality at a point in time prior to the last point in time you experienced within it

Examples
>Scott traveled through the Quantum Realm for five hours, arriving at a point in time in the main timeline 5 years ahead of when he left
>No branch reality is created, because he can't affect his own experienced continuity by having done that

>Cap traveled through the Quantum Realm to arrive at 2012
>A branch reality is created, because Cap has already experienced 2012, creating 2012b and rendering the prime timeline 2012a

Say Cap were to travel to the universe 2012b occurred in, except to the year 2013. Cap would not create a branch timeline, because he hasn't experienced 2013b, only 2013a. The fact that Cap has experienced one iteration of the year 2013 doesn't matter, because 2013b is a different iteration.

As long as you only ever travel forwards relative to the last point in time you experienced in that reality, no branch timeline is created. Taking these rules to be true, there's no hole in the time travel logic, and it's the only way to prevent there being any holes.

There, that's it. Concise and to the point. Just screencap this post and STOP TRYING TO FIND HOLES IN THE MOVIE, it works exactly like this.

man, why couldn't they have kept things simple and just done a movie about the avengers trying to keep thanos' dad from having sex

Are you saying the mcu is a time loop with pocket universes or these threads are?

The timelines got the shit branched out of them, the only thing they cared about was that they didn't create a timeline without an infinity stone.

>overthinking a bland chi children's movie
What a sad life you live.

THERE IS NO TIME TRAVEL BRAINLETS, HULK SAID IT 3 TIMES JESUS CHRIST.

No, he just jumped to another Dragon Ball Ring

Exactly that, Hulk brought everyone back, while Nebula opened the timegate, Thanos used Pym particles to go the ''present/his future''.

Internal consistency is still important.

>nebulon

Attached: nebulon.jpg (757x484, 117K)

Ok, just so I'm clear on everything.

>changing the past is impossible
>whenever they went back to the past and changed anything, not just infinity stone related, it created a new timeline that will continue on with the changes they made
>after Cap returned the stones to their proper timelines he then went back to the 40's of some other timeline and married Peggy
>he lived out his life in that alternate timeline before eventually jumping back to the 'main' timeline to give Sam the shield
That all right?

I'm sure I heard about someone from the movie confirm that Peggy's husband that she said she had in Winter Soldier was actually Steve. But that would mean he didn't live out his life in an alternate timeline but the 'main' one wouldn't it? and if that's true then changing the past IS possible?

>No because the stones were always taken all along they just didn't know until they did it themselves in the future.
Nothing like that is implied, are you high?

>I'm sure I heard about someone from the movie confirm that Peggy's husband that she said she had in Winter Soldier was actually Steve.
She had a husband, that person wasn't revealed on screen but it wasn't Steve. For Steve to do that, he'd have to have prior knowledge of the timeline in order to go back in time and do that, but by doing so, he'd necessarily be creating a new timeline in which he lived those things. In "Winter Soldier" she only recognized Steve as he used to be, but she didn't acknowledge him as her husband.
So no, that's definitely not the case. Two different versions of Peggy exist, one that married a man after Steve was frozen, and another that married a time-displaced Steve, in two separate timelines.

Not according to the writers of the movie
>“It was always our intention that he was the father of those two children. But again, there are time travel loopholes for that.”
hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/avengers-endgame-writers-confirm-captain-america-fan-theory-1209241

Which means apparently he did find some way to actually change the past of the original timeline and not create a new one, but it's also a timeloop since he was always her husband. The Steve thing is what really fucks all the rules they established up.

Nothing. Quill sucessfully brokers the stone and hopefully doesn't get killed by Yondu, Rocket and Groot continue bounty hunting. Drax remains in jail.

Ego never learns about Quill because no big fight on Xandar where he uses the stone, so the Expansion is forever stalled. Mantis remains with him forever.

The Russos disagree with the closed loop theory, and the directors have more say than the screenwriters. Adding to that the fact that the closed loop theory makes no fucking sense, and we can safely write it off.

So that thing doesnt run out of battery?