CONFIRMED: No changing the future, only creating multiverses

> "The Hulk says if you’re in the present and you go back to the past, you cannot affect the present because it has already occurred. That now becomes your past. Right?," said Joe Russo. "And if you’re [currently] in the past, this is now your present. And anything you do in that time shift would create a multiverse reality. It will create a new future, but it’s not going to affect your past."

comicbookmovie.com/avengers/avengers_endgame/avengers-endgame-editors-reveal-alternate-black-widow-death-scene-other-huge-alternate-deleted-scenes-a168361

This explanation is so much better than Markus & McFeely's which is "Cap just hid" essentially. That's the kind of talk to expect from Thor The Dark World writers

Without Russos, they'd be nothing.

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Good to know that Cap had to hop universes again and no rules were broken. Hope they keep old Cap around for future movies.

I just want some scenes in the Disney+ show with old Steve and Bucky hanging out. Possibly have Steve be the one who convinces him to get back into action when Sam comes knocking.

Invaders pls

The real issue is that Old cap should have arrived on the time platform, not waiting on the bench.

Why the fuck do writers hate easy time travel rules? Creating alternate timelines is one of the many cancers that fucked up X-Men.

They screwed so many timelines to save theirs

Those timelines were created to be screwed. Think of them like clones you harvest organs from. They don't matter.

It's possible he took his own path back, with the help of alternate universe Pym.

That's not what the ancient one says

One of the timelines had their Thanos and his entire army deleted, so I'd chalk that up as a win.

YEPPP

That means he became part of their past which is basically saying the Russo's are full of shit.

>Hope they keep old Cap around for future movies.

Evans is finished with Captain America, but hopefully he can cameo as Commander Rogers in the same capacity as Sam Jackson as did/does with Fury.

One can dream.

What

This makes sense

>What
Read it as many times as you need until you get it

>It's possible he took his own path back, with the help of alternate universe Pym.
>This makes sense

Sure, or alternate Dr. Strange did some magic, or an alternate universe Thanos helped him... whatever you want to make up to try to fix it. What we DO know, is that he went back to their universe's past via the time platform to return the stones and mjolnir.

The Ancient One says taking a stone will create a branch timeline, which is true.
The Ancient One does not say that only taking a stone will create a branch timeline.
Taking a stone is what makes a turbo-fucked dark timeline though, so putting the stone back prevents it from ending up like that.

>Graph user is already here
Of course.

Yes, we get it. It's been a staple of Marvel Comics for decades. Just because your dumb ass is late to the party doesn't mean you have to make one more damned thread about this subject.

>Multiverses
It's official Morty! I've turned myself into a cinematic universe Morty! I'M CINEMATIC UNIVERSE RICK!

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But you can't put it back

nah they brought the stones back

except for that loki bails timeline.
whoops

>It's been a staple of Marvel Comics for decades
Marvel comics have had inconsistent as all fuck time travel rules, m8. At one point young cyclops died and older cyclops faded from existence, but then they got better. That sort of shit never makes sense.

Yes, you can. Those branch timelines are now concurrently running alternate universes. As long as you re-enter the timeline after the latest point you were in it, you successfully arrive in that alternate universe without generating a new one. It's like collapsing a wave function, something that was a possibility is not a fixed reality. So, as long as Cap arrives in the branch timeline after they took the stone out of it originally, it's fine.

I don't know why everybody needed this to be confirmed when it's THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE MOVIE.

>As long as you re-enter the timeline after the latest point you were in it
And as long as nobody from that timeline traveled to your timeline's past or to the past of a universe where in the future someone in that universe traveled to your timeline's past, or to the past of a universe where in the future someone would travel to the past of a universe where in the future someone would travel to your timeline's past, or so on, or so forth.

Cap leaving his friends and Bucky to go to the past is the main issue. It's so out of character.

I don't get this autistic obsession of time travel rules that the Russos clearly don't give a shit about. And the Ancient One isn't a reliable narrator, her entire role in Doctor Strange is that she's full of shit.

The Loki bails timeline is a set up for the Disney+ Loki show

Nobody from that timeline can travel to your timeline's past, because your timeline's past is now part of their past by way of you. They can't do anything that could affect your timeline's history because it would affect you, which would affect your incursion into their timeline, which is now a fixed point.

I agree. That's why I hate this ending, it's so wildly out of character. He's pretty much the only character I cared about in the MCU.

Except for when it isn't. Tempus literally deleted someone from reality via time travel.

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Time Stone to repair the shield.

Steven knew how to use it?

Secret cap told Howard stark his true identity and he built a special shield just so secret cap can hide under his bed and give it to someone else in the future

>and he built a special shield just so secret cap can hide under his bed and give it to someone else in the future
>How come it's not standard issue?
>That's the rarest metal on Earth. What you're holding there, that's all we've got.

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alter the matter with the gems
they are the perfect deus ex machina

I love this

>Without Russos, they'd be nothing.
did they run over your dog or something

Just accept that Bendis isn't canon.

OP's right though, Markus and McFeely wrote Thor: The Dark World, arguably a bigger clusterfuck than Endgame.

improvement over time is a thing

they also wrote the entire Cap Trilogy, did work on Guardians, and wrote Infinity War

Yeah but they dropped the ball in Endgame.

Okay, I'm not riding their dick here, I'm just wondering why OP is so asshurt about it

Ruining his character development and turning him into Joker 2.0 once again. And Yea Forums eats it up like flies to shit, they loooove this.

Yea Forums rides the Russo bros dick raw, is what I mean.

That isn't even the only instances of that. Layla Miller created one of the X-men's worst foes after resurrecting them in X-factor.

People are still arguing about this?

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Star-Lord also never becomes a Guardian, neither does Rocket, Groot, or Drax and Ronan just.... What the hell would happen in that timeline anyway?

This begs the question, how would you even make someone like Bishop or Cable work in the MCU then? Especially since their motivations always involve changing the past to make their future not as fucked up.

is the second highest grossing film in history
What are you waiting for?

Gamora is gone from that timeline too, so in addition to Ronan never being able to get the Stone because he lacks Thanos' help, it's likely Quill will never meet Ego, meaning Ego's plot will never come to be.

There was none. Lets be honest. Steve would have never found the happiness Tony did unless he went back to that exact moment, because Tony settled down with the woman he actually loved, and not some replacement.

It seems out of character, but they built it up. Yes, Cap would have never done it, 1940s Cap would have never done it. Winter Soldier Cap would have not done it.

The events of Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame changed him. He's no longer just about the self-sacrifice, now, he pines for the chance to spend a lifetime with the woman he loved, especially after seeing Tony get it. And he could have passed up on it. But a part of him may have thought of giving it a chance (and maybe Ant-man can use the quantum tunnel if he really wanst to de-age) Its why I don't find it out-of-character - Cap has experienced enough that, for once, maybe experiencing another life isn't such a bad idea.

But lets be fair, its really an excuse for the Russos to write out Cap without outright killing him off, as people expected

Question: is "timeloop user" still around these days? Or did he finally admit he was wrong? Because that was a fun week.

>his
This is an alternate Loki, brainlet. Our Loki has his character development done what with him being dead and all.

So glad Future Steve cucked Past Steve and prevented him from getting together with Past Peggy.

Based.

>implying he's not already here in this very thread

>Implying Future Steve didn't help Peggy find Past Steve so the two of them could double-team her every night
You lack imagination.

GEE PEGGY, HOW COME THE MCU LETS YOU HAVE TWO CAPS?

Absolute state of brainlets holy fuck just end yourself

You mean pocket autist?

>because as far as I know the gems only work in their respective universe
Stop applying comic logic and knowledge to the MCU. They're their own continuity and you'll keep confusing yourself if you keep adding shit that isn't confirmed canon or not.

Alright Yea Forums vote on what happened:
a) Future Steve stole Past Steve's identity and returned to 1940s where he pretended to survive the crash, and left Past Steve in an iceblock for 70 years until he had to deal with it when they found his body in 2012? or
b) Future Steve found Past Steve frozen in his ice block and killed him so there would never be 2 Caps in that Peggy timeline?

That's fucking stupid. If you're gonna do a time travel story, make it so that time can change. Otherwise all that shit about the Avengers hiding in the background everytime they went to the past was absolutely pointless padding.

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It's not at all pointless. It makes the job much easier and quick for them.No wasting time pointlessly explaining details and getting into fights with their past selves. A grand example of why they are hiding is when Steve runs into his past self, who immediately starts attacking him and causing issues.

Yawn

>He's no longer just about the self-sacrifice, now, he pines for the chance to spend a lifetime with the woman he loved, especially after seeing Tony get it.
That is a massive regression they wrote for him then. He sees Tony be happy and longs for a past love he's never going to get? Because he didn't know time bending was possible. He regressed to looking at his compass and wishing for what might have been.

Truly, they AVENGED their timeline.
Whatever it takes, indeed.

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It's not a regression. It is the main focus of both Tony and Steve's character arcs. Tony had to learn to give things up and sacrifice it all for the sake of other. Steve had to learn to pursue his own interests in one way or another. Tony gave up his happy life (and life in general) in order to save everyone which is something he would not have originally done. Steve decided to finally get the life he always wished for once he had sacrificed enough and had beat (what he had seen) the biggest bad that would ever exist. It's a fitting end for both of their stories, because it shows that they both learn that you can never let yourself slip into a lifestyle of purely sacrifice or purely self-interest.

Because it's fucking stupid, like you, which is why they hate it.

They don't need to appear on the platform. There wasn't a platform in the past and they traveled there just fine. They can obviously set coordinates as well as dates.

But Tony's sacrificed over and over, in his movies as well as Avenger movies. It was the most pointless dead horse to beat into the ground.
And why couldn't Steve be selfish living in the present with his found friends and Bucky? He could have said, "I saved the world, I'm retiring and getting that cup of coffee with Sharon that's been years overdue. Here, Sam, you're the Captain now."
The showrunners saying Steve had to go to the past to find his happiness, that that's how he chose to be selfish, is the thing that rankles. That there was no opportunity for happiness for Steve in the present.
Plus taking away a father and husband to prove a point we're all already aware of.

But now the issue is that Cap in theory abandoned all the family he had with Peggy, while another Capsicle will wake up to find out "lol yeah, another version of you totally just spent the last 50 years destroying Pegs puss".

That universe Steve lived in is probably fucked when/if Thanos appears, unless he provides information about where and when certain events are set to happen. But doing that could just mess things up further, meaning he will have no idea what happens next.

The Russos have said that finding Loki was one of Steve's responsibilities.

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How did cap return the stones that weren't originally stones? The tessaract, staff and aether

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The Russos said it's probably gonna be explained in the Loki Disney+ show where Loki's gonna have a hand in influencing global events across time.

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Are you retarded?

He probably just asked Tchalla to fix to it for him since he's friends with the people that create the stuff it's made out of now instead of it being a one off from a small sample.

But at end of the day we're basically just back to having an evil jackass Loki like pre Ragnarok even if it's technically a different guy.

They're obviously protecting Far From Home where it's revealed Mysterio is actually from the Lokiverse, a branch reality created by Loki stealing the Tesseract and in which he won, creating a reverence of liars and fakers. Mysterio is merely a good adherent of the God of Mischief.

Steve got his ass kicked by Loki when they first met. Completely overpowered. Steve ain't doing shit to Loki unless he ask the Ancient One to help clean up his mess.

To be fair, they tried hard as hell to avoid that.

That one's on that timeline's Thanos.

Dude really should have tried to be more cautious when he saw the shit the Avengers were going through in that timeline.

that said, I don't see Cap being passive in his alt-timeline he created.

He knew about HYDRA, he knew about Bucky, he knows about a fuckload of other shit. Do you really see Cap passing on that?

They should just reveal that Loki caused the X-men and F4 to exist in the MCU.

There's going to be so much Steve/Steve fanfic now, isn't there?

I guess the fight scene didn't hurt either.

Other than Guardians not joining up and still bieng kind of lonely, things would otherwise improve.

Guardians 1 is voided because no Ronan and Thanos. And Guardians two is avoided because Ego never finds Peter because no Guardians 1 and the Guardians don't exist to get the Soveregn involved by stealing form them. Assuming Guardians 3 is about Adam Warlock and the fallout from IW/EG that never happens now so everything is clear there as well. Also original Groot and Yondu are still alive.

Meanwhile on Earth everything goes as the same, only better because no Thanos and IW. So the Asgardians make it safely back to Earth new good guy Loki and Heimdall included, and Thor remains King (but weaponless because there was no need to get Stormbreaker) Vision doesn't get his head smashed and he and Wanda live happily ever after. And no Snap and need to undo the Snap, so Tony and Nat live and Scott is brought back from the Quantum Realm on time and doesn't miss out on 5 years of Cassie's life.

And everyone is fine and hunky dory. And whatever the next big overarcing threat in the main verse, assuming it would happen anyway because it's not caused by a result of IW/EG then the world has the original Avengers, Vision Loki and Heimdall around as well as everyone else.

Really this is probably even a better timeline than the main one unless your a Guardians fan, and even then they all live even if they never meet each other although this version of Nebula died and Mantis remain with Ego probably for the rest of her life.

Not really. Everyone's too pissed or disappointed to make it happen.

Future Steve already won when he cucked Past Steve and got together with Past Peggy. Poor Past Steve is left frozen while Future Steve impregnates Past Peggy all while thinking Future Steve is Past Steve. Classic Netorare.

Logically, simply arriving generates a branching
Anyway you can't put it back like banner implied, the moment they were taken away

>The real issue is that Old cap should have arrived on the time platform
He had the time to have the dimension hopping technology improved. The Hank Pyme of his timeline probably helped.

>Otherwise all that shit about the Avengers hiding in the background everytime they went to the past was absolutely pointless padding.
The whole point was to not mes up with the alternate timeline.

The directors have said this all along. It's just the screenwriters who are confused, and they didn't even write the time travel stuff.

Why did they turned him into generic old man yelling at clouds instead of Old Man Rogers?
Shouldn't the serum keep him strong, even at old age?

As its confirmed that the avengers are traveling to multiverses and alternate timelines. Why not just travel to an alternate timeline where they won and ask to borrow the infinity gauntlet to unsnap everyone?

Missing a target seems to be a downgrade though. Unless you're saying that Cap specifically targetted landing on/by a bench to make things dramatic, which sounds stupid.

Because all travelling is done to the past. Even Thanos was basically travelling to the future via Nebula's past. A timeline were they won would be one set in the future.

That plus as Doctor Strange said, their timeline was the only one out of 14 million where they won.

>there are only 14 million timelines
Logic like this are why Doom thinks he has any business running the world.

>DA RUSSOS SAID DA RUSSOS SAID
Jesus christ, at least when they handwaved away every plothole in Infinity War with "lol Dr. Strange said it had to happen that way" that was something that was actually in the movie.

You need to rewatch that scene. 14 million and change was the limit that he could take since he exits his future browsing with a panicked exclamation. In any event this still doesn't change the fact that they don't dimension hop but time travel, with alternate branches popping up in their wake, so they can't just time travel to a timeline where they won, as they lost in their past.

Merely the messenger m9.

>businessinsider.com/avengers-endgame-directors-describe-making-of-the-movie-interview-2019-5/

>Clark: At the end, when Cap brings the stones back in time, does he correct all the timelines that got screwed up? Is there a past Loki still out there?
>Joe: The intent was that he was going to correct the past timelines at the point that the stones left.
>Loki, when he teleports away with the Time Stone, would create his own timeline. It gets very complicated, but it would be impossible for [Cap] to rectify the timeline unless he found Loki. The minute that Loki does something as dramatic as take the Space Stone, he creates a branched reality.
>Anthony: We’re dealing with this idea of multiverses and branched realities, so there are many realities.

Bewitched has a multiverse

Not really sure about Sam as the new Cap, though. He doesn't really have the same charisma. More often than not, he feels like a tacked on extra who doesn't really add anything to the scenes he's in. He lacks a strong sense of presence, like the normal dude in a group of larger than light charisma monsters.

What I'm gathering from this thread is that Steve never would've went back to the past if Tony and/or Nat had just lived.

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Pretty much, the poor guy. But I think he would have stayed for Bucky and Sam regardless.

They had the timestone so im sure Cap had enough McGuffin power to make everything right again and get the girl.

He is a gud boy and deserves a win at the end. Fuck your time logicals

I think he's probably gonna play the straight man to Bucky's wisecracking. Stan and Mackie have excellent chemistry. So much so that Marvel gave them their own show, lots of fans lobbied for it.

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He's gonna need more than that to fill Evans' shoes.

>Kang's Third Law of Time

Shouldn't everyone already know this then?

He'll need time. He does everything Steve does, just slower.

If the Ancient One agreed, you must be able to. She should know.

If you think Evans is ever playing him again, old or otherwise, you're silly.

>Logically, simply arriving generates a branching
>Anyway you can't put it back like banner implied, the moment they were taken away
You just arrive 1 attosecond after they left. Then there's no branching because you didn't overlap any continuity.

You don't put them back the moment they were taken from where they had been stored, you return to just after the point where the stone left the timeline and then manually put it back where it should be.

>Because all travelling is done to the past.
>The movie takes place 5 years after the events of infinity war
Nothing is stopping the avengers from heading to a point in an alternate universes past where the avengers best Thanos in infinity war.

Why can't Steve go back in time and yank Tony from this timeline's past and bring him back to the present? Like Gamora, Nebula and Thanos?

Because it would fuck over that timeline pretty hard.

That might be the worst drawing of Natalie Portman I've ever seen.

It is a different guy.

Isn't this that SU artist that got worse?

The irony of the whole Spider-man belonging to Sony is that I think Spider-man might actually work better as a TV series than a series of films. Spider-man's usually at his best during street-level shenanigans and smaller stakes, and I kind of feel like the movies don't leave a lot of room for that, and as a result, doesn't get to grow much on his own without Stark or Fury driving the plot.

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>when your heroes are so shit at fighting evil, they need time travel for a do over.

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>Really this is probably even a better timeline than the main one unless your a Guardians fan, and even then they all live even if they never meet each other although this version of Nebula died and Mantis remain with Ego probably for the rest of her life.
Drax remains in the Kling for life. Rocket and Groot will keep working as mercenaries, eventually being captured or killed. Peter will stay with the Ravagers for a while longer, until he calls it quit, Yondu's attempts to protect him stop working, and a sucessful mutiny takes place. And if Ronan gets his hands on the power stone, which Cap allegedly put back in Morag, shit will go south really fast for several planets, including Xandar.

So it's a shitty timeline for cosmic Marvel, but pretty good for Earth.

If they can only go to a past on there timeline