How'd you fix the Ultimate Universe?

The ultimate line should be rebooted once every 15 years. It's a good way to encourage writers to be creative with characters with no risk of alienating the core fans. No one cares that Ultimate Colossus is gay but we get a thread at least once a month whining that Iceman is a fag.

Hate me all you like, but I actually Ultimate interpretation of Captain America. Yeah, he's old-fashioned and has some bigoted views, but Ultimate Cap is still brave, heroic, noble, and above all, he despises pointless violence for its own sake, despite being a war hero and prefers to end it as soon as possible. His personality reminds me of my grandfather, who despite having the typical Conservative views of the WW2 generation, I couldn't help but admire and respect him for his contribution to the war effort. He was a man with principles who only used violence as a last resort or for self-defense only. He hated the Axis powers, but still believed their civilian casualties was as important and tragic that warranted attention as his own.

How do you even fix this?

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>hur dur conservative = bigot. I am vry smert

Exactly. It became the very thing it was supposed to be an alternative to. The fact that only the most cosmetic elements and basic plotlines (Avengers fighting Chitauri) influenced the MCU and 616 is telling.

They brought Ultimate back, what the fuck? What did I miss?

Eat my ass, the Bendis noise in Ultimate was great for most of his time with it. He really only started sucking with Marvel let him handle mainline titles.

Yeah, Bendis was pretty good untill a bit after Miles' mom died, but still could write some good stuff. I like to pretend anything about Ultimate Spider-man after that issue where they remember Peter and think about what he would have done doesn't exist though,

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Yeah, I'm about the same. Bringing Peter back was really frustrating. I understand that the Oz Serum granted immortality to Norman, so it made sense to give it to Peter as well, but also they refused to do the same with Harry, and never really gave any payoff to MJ being a Goblin either.

I could have let the whole plot line drop and moved on if they hadn't brought Peter back.

Otherwise, the whole Roxxon story arc was really well weaved together. But putting Kitty on that team really disrupted that nice, organic story after the fact.

If they were to bring back Ultimate, or just decide to start a whole new line without the bagged like Ultimate was supposed to be, I would almost want it to be all under one writer.

I think if Bendis had been in charge of Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, X-Men and the Ultimates from the get-go it would have been fine.

That's not to say those other titles weren't a lot of fun at times, but it probably would have made things a lot easier continuity-wise.

>with new modernized takes on classic heroes
Ah, yeah, I don't think this is a very good idea after all.

Sand in your vagina m8?

>never really gave any payoff to MJ being a Goblin either.

Every single night before going to sleep this and that one Peter clone the FF kept torment me, because I know it's never going to amount to anything.

>But putting Kitty on that team really disrupted that nice, organic story after the fact

It makes even less sense because this happens not too long after the Utopia arc in Ultimate X-Man, where Kitty became president. Why the fuck would she come back to NY when she has a thriving Mutant nation to take care of?

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Ultimate Crisis.
But that would go against the whole reason why the Ultimate universe was made in the first place.

...uh, conservatives in the 1940s were bigots.

>confusing Peter's photography with Clark's reporting
Come on!

Ultimate Peter isn't a photographer tho, he worked at the Bugle as a web designer

The last page of Spider-Men II by Bendis had them discover the Ultimate Universe was brought back along all the others that were destroyed after Secret Wars. It hasn't been brought up since then, and despite some vague remarks regarding ideas about picking up on that, there's no concrete plans.
Technically, Al Ewing already brought back The Ultimates at the end of Ultimates2, but those might have been just clones created by the Maker and not the actual characters.

So what you're telling me is that Secret Wars was an even bigger pointless event that changed absolutely nothing?

Yes

It's more like Bendis is a shithead who did that as his final act before ditching Marvel for DC, while leaving ZERO plans about it.

I expect nothing and I'm still disappointed.

>How'd you fix the Ultimate Universe?
I don't, but I'd drag the Carnage Gwen concept back into 616, revive Gwen as a human/symbiote hybrid so she has a healing factor to deal with clone degredation, and then make her MJ's symbiote to give Peter at least a fraction of the harem he's always deserved and kill the "MJ thinks being a superhero is too dangerous" plotline once and fucking foreall.

While I'm at it I retcon Knull into a reality warping chaos god that inserted himself into the symbiote backstory, because his very existence shits all over Marvel cosmology. He and Mephisto can get in a punchup over MJ's soul.

I'd just not make everyone an asshole... and for the love of god just stick ONE artist for Fantastic Four instead of changing for somebody else every 4 or 5 issues. And perhaps not turning the Green Goblin into a literal green goblin or whatever.

But with all being said, I can't help but love The Ultimates.

>revive Gwen as a human/symbiote hybrid
How about we keep characters dead when their deaths had some meaning to them?

yeah even if he was a bit "ahead of his time" it still made much more sense

>because his very existence shits all over Marvel cosmology
Goddamn it, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that, his conception is just so lazy. If I could I'd simply retcon him out of existence by having Oblivion absorb him or something.

>How about we keep characters dead when their deaths had some meaning to them?
I don't really see the point. Being able to fix your mistakes doesn't mean you shouldn't worry about making them. You can reattach an arm, but I'd hate to have one cut off. Besides, her dealing with all the bullshit caused by her life and death while trying to adapt to being revived well after the fact would be interesting. You know, all that shit we got jack shit of when she was revived during the last clone wars.

But thats what Bendis did. Made Gwen come back ad some hybrid then cured her. It was weird

There is a way to make it work, yes, but I don't see it happening.

>But thats what Bendis did
And that's why you shouldn't do it again.

>his conception is just so lazy
My problem with it is less that it's lazy and more that it makes NO FUCKING SENSE. You can't have a god of the primordial void before the creation of the universe when several fucking universes predated the current fucking universe, not a fucking void. Fuck's sake, he carried over across a multiversal reboot.

We're talking about Cates here man, let's not fucking try and make sense of it because for him, all that shit is an afterthought. He just wants another OC to make his mark, continuity and consistency be damned. I am still wondering why the fuck no editor told them you can't just kill Eson The Searcher AT THE BEGINNING OF THE UNIVERSE.

Carnage Gwen did nothing wrong except get depowered and not hook up with Ultimate Jessica Drew.

It is basically MCU mix with into spiderverse. Setting and the live action x men universe .

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Was it really that bad or is it just you bitching for the sake of it?

Who the fuck did this art because is fucking awful.

Rebooting it is the first step, of course. But then there's some basic design principles to look at...
>Stick to the angle of "modern Marvel", drop the "grimderp Marvel" angle that it sank it.
>Don't make Spidey the only damn likable hero in the entire setting.
>Make Magneto have a legitimate point, instead of being a psychotic poseur willing to cannibalize flatscans to make himself seem legit.
>Ditch the "mutants are a failed super soldier project gone viral" crap.
>Captain America being more centrist (because 30s Left Wing is still pretty Right Wing by today's standards) is fine; Captain America being a flanderized USAgent is not okay.
>Thor being a neo-paganism preacher is fine, even a cool angle; that doesn't make him a drunken hippie pacifist.
>Repeating myself here, but Hulk doesn't need to be a psychotic cannibalistic rapist.

But I like my grimderp stupid Hulk.

mahmud asrar

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Tell you what; if we can have a smart, sexy, non-psycho Ultimate She-Hulk - because those fucking idiots in 616 decided that what people wanted was Roid Rage She-Hulk - then we'll keep the Psycho Ultimate Hulk as a villain.

...You know what? Make Miles Morales female and with a lesbian relationship with Spider-Gwen, and you might actually have an interesting version of Miles. Or at least a hot one, and that's the closest he'd ever get to being interesting.

Sounds like 616 lite. That's boring. re-imaginings of origins and character dynamics is what made 1610 Interesting and Unique. Why take that away.

There's too much Hulks to pick just one.
>Gravage Hulk
>Professor Hulk
>Joe Fixit
>Demon Hulk
>Ultimate Hulk
I am fine with anyone except Doc Green, kluh or MCU Hulk.

>Repeating myself here, but Hulk doesn't need to be a psychotic cannibalistic rapist.

Disagree, I like when hulk is chaotic neutral towards the heroes.

Fuck that, I'd keep Bendis but make USM the only fucking book he works on. Him writing a dozen books at a time really sabotaged his efforts in just about everything.

Fuck you nigger Ultimate Spider was fucking shit. He literally took the best Spider arc and then rubbed his penis all over it

>"Realistic" = smex + gore xdddd

There is no fixing that universe

I for one really liked the idea that Banner was trying to replicate the Cap serum and fucked up horribly. This is one of the things the MCU borrowed from the ultimate stuff.

Re-imagined characters and origins does NOT mean everybody has to be a psychotic asshole freak, which is what Earth 1610 devolved into.

The Wasp as a mutant hiding her genetrash status behind her boyfriend's scientist credentials was interesting.

GiAnt Man as a wife-beating thug was not.

Ultimate Falcon is the best version Sam Wilson there's ever been. Come at me.

Agreed. The Hulk as a failed Captain America successor was a neat idea. Turning him into a cannibalistic serial killer and rapist was pointless and ugly.

Daredevil was mainline and it was spectacular

The core concept of the Ultimate universe was to create a retelling of classic Marvel, starting from the origin stories, but modernize it by setting those origins in the present day. It was exactly the same premise as a hard reboot, but inoffensive because the classic universe people were invested in was allowed to continue as well.

Of course later on, the writers and editors got bored or decided that too much continuity had built up to still appeal to new readers and CHANGED the premise of Ultimate to "the edgy universe where main characters are killed off and not brought back to make status quo as different from 616 as possible" and that switch is what inevitably killed Ultimate.

But the first thing? What I just described currently exists in a successful form.

It's called the MCU, and it's perfect right where it is. As a film series. Because print is fucking dead.

fpbp
Ultimate turned into a garbage bin to dump all the edgy stories they couldn't do in the main universe
I jumped ship when Peter died, but by then Ultimatum had already happened too, when i came back the USA were all fractured and the continuity was in such a bad state that i simply couldn't jump back in. At least the Maker thing was cool, but ffs, the rest is so stupid

I just wish Ultimatum was better written. Don't have Nightcrawler drown offpanel when he can fucking teleport, don't have Wolverine get blasted into oblivion by Iron Man's repulsors, don't have Blob eat people, and don't have Doom behind it all for no goddamned reason. It was a great concept, but it was a contrived execution.

Was Spider-Woman the first trans super hero? If Bendis did that shit today you know damn well she'd be more popular now than she ever was.

Isn't that what the movies are for?

Not everything is going to be gold but the risk means you'll get great stories you wouldn't be able to get in any other circumstance.
Plus Hank Pym being a wife beater has been a joke both in-universe and among comic readers for years. Might as well make him actually earn the title instead of a one off backhand.

>A character whose main drive and personality revolves around "i had a penis but now i dont"
>Good

I dont understand you fags's taste

>Every single night before going to sleep this and that one Peter clone the FF kept torment me, because I know it's never going to amount to anything.
if I recall properly they eventually tied it to that North Korea revolution plot that involved Tony's brother

>The Wasp as a mutant hiding her genetrash status behind her boyfriend's scientist credentials was interesting.
didn't the good Avengers cartoon borrow that idea?

GENDERBEND EVERYONE!
RULE 63 UNIVERSE

I'd let them bring Peter back due to Oz bullshit, but I'd have him be the new Captain America and keep Miles as the new Spider-Man.

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>He literally took the best Spider arc and then rubbed his penis all over it
Which one?

>didn't the good Avengers cartoon borrow that idea?
Not as far as I know, though she was mutated into a humanoid wasp by gamma radiation in one first season story.

>How'd you fix the Ultimate Universe?
depends on what you mean, if you're asking how to fix the one that already exists, then I'd say it's pretty simple, roll the universe back to before Ultimates 3 and continue from that point ignoring most of the stuff they did from that point onward originally(maybe reintroduce a couple of the more interesting bits they had later on though)

if you're talking about doing a new universe that uses the Ultimate Universe's concept of modernizing the Marvel Universe, well I've got some ideas for that too

As someone who can probably be labeled transphobic, I thought Ultimate Jessica Drew was a goldmine of cool ideas. She's Peter Parker but has to come up with a completely new identity, and is way too freaked out about having a pussy. You gotta remember, this was way before the SJW wave rocked Marvel, and none of this shit was even remotely preachy. It surprises me to no end that this was never explored at all.

>if you're talking about doing a new universe that uses the Ultimate Universe's concept of modernizing the Marvel Universe, well I've got some ideas for that too
I'm interested, user, if you feel like sharing?

Spider-Men 2 ended with Ultimate Peter being the leader of the Ultimates, right? I feel like if they just left it at that and we can all have a positive headcanon of what happened, everything would be fine.

But fuck Riri Williams

> and racism
Source?
And don't you fucking say Ultimate Cap, he very quickly became friends with Falcon, got flashbacks showing him being sympathetic to black soldiers in the 40s and had a whole issue rescuing blacks from Zola and he referred to them as "your betters" as they overran Zola's lab.

>I'm interested, user, if you feel like sharing?
sure, one of the core tenets of this concept is establishing from the start that this universe is not our reality, with differences from even before the Fantastic Four go to space and start the Modern Age of Heroes, to help facilitate that there would be two major events that set things up before the present day;

1) World War 2 and the ascendancy of Atlantis, Latveria, and Wakanda onto the World Stage

2) Frank Castle: The Man Who Punished The World

will go over those events in the next couple posts

> and has some bigoted views
Just the France thing & he dislikes rap music. That is literally it.

I'd make the Ultimates an imprint for AUs. Each title gets its own continuity with it's own universe number. Writers will be allowed to go apeshit with the stories since they are AUs.

do an Ultimate Universe but with Marvel's Golden Age characters

That's because Colossus being gay was handled nicely (from what I've read) and not a cheap fucking asspull for diversity.
You know how fucking insulting it is for Bobby to just be made gay out of nowhere because Jean was poking around his head? Colossus was reasonable.

t. homo

Don't turn the mutants into failed experiments and also don't make them fucking assholes like in the main continuity.

You :
>rebrand that entire alt-uni as the "MCU in comic form" but with fresh stories and takes.
>Get some talent on there l for the launch like Ewing, or bribe Morrison
>Only put out 3-4 books at a time (Avengers, X-men, Spidey, and something villain-centric), no events until you've established the world and characters
>Edgy shit is fine since it's supposed to be based on the "real world" but strictly avoid killing off any favorites even though it is an alternate reality

Why is fail experiments bad?

Ultimate mutants were WAAAAAAAAAY worse than main continuity...which is kinda an achievement if you think about it.

They took a guy that tried to mindrape his girlfriend into staying with him, erased a guy from existence because he was too much trouble to train, and regularly mindwiped people of memories he deemed "troublesome" like for instance their entire team getting killed on his orders, and made him an even bigger asshole by making his entire call to arms a baldfaced lie and giving him an assassin to kill mutants that he couldn't sell to the public.

It's really impressive.

I’d destroy it after making a lot of charts.

Oh shut the fuck up you retard, without Bendis there never even would’ve been an Ultimate Line.

What’s the downside, here?

Leave the first 160 or so issues of Ultimate Spider-Man alone, its perfect. Let Peter die and let that be the end of the character. Don't pass Spider-Man on to Miles next.
Reform the Ultimates to be less edgy and dickish but retain some of those cool scenes. Make Cap not a dick, but retain the tough 1940s persona. Just make everything less edgy.

Do a drastic change to the Ultimate universe that splits it into two universes.

One is Bendis USM + MCU stuff. Bendis seems to like tailoring his stuff to fit with the films. Here the superteam is called the Avengers and not the Ultimates. X-Men also exist mainly because Kitty and Bobby interact with Peter on a regular basis.

The other is the Millar/Hickman/Ultimatum type universe where it's Millar's Ultimate X-Men, Ultimates created in response to them and Magneto's Brotherhood, Reed Richards becomes the Maker, full-on disaster events, alternate bad futures, etc etc. This is where people can indulge in doing end-of-the-world bullshit like in Ultimatum or all those other Ultimate events that came after. To keep going overboard with killing off characters and worlds and resetting them to do it over and over. It'd be like a containment book.

Leave it dead

It's true though, at least the Yea Forums ones are.

>Tfw the Ult universe Is back but the Supreme Power universe Is still dead and was never finished

I wonder if them managing to get JMS could mean they could try to get him to finish it.

Why did they kill off all of their popular characters in Ultimatum?

cause they were idiots