Why does US animated shows aimed at adults have to be always so ugly and gross like Rick and Morty or Big Mouth?

Refute my argument.

>Tripfag
>If it ever was
You cannot be serious with this fucking garbage

I don't argue with tripfags, especially ones who think that there's a clear distinction between what's subjective and objective.

As a rule, an animated show for adults in the US cannot be taken seriously. It has to be a comedy, and it can't have artistic merit beyond its comedy writing.

It doesn't require more money to make a show look good, it just requires intent, skill and effort.

US animation has always lagged far behind Japan in terms of quality and raw skill.

We are grown children who now see that being different from kids in anything but body size was a damn lie

>As a rule, an animated show for adults in the US cannot be taken seriously. It has to be a comedy, and it can't have artistic merit beyond its comedy writing.
Why, tho

Ah, so you're a SJW by your own admission.

>an animated show for adults in the US cannot be taken seriously

What makes this stranger is the fact normalfags lap up all sorts of insipid live action bullshit (even capeshit) and take it seriously despite it being paper thin and worthless. What is it about animation that puts off normalfags? Is it some sort of physiological difference? Or an absence of imagination and empathy?

Yes, there's been a general decline in Western art. People have been duped into thinking that skill and beauty have nothing to do with art and it's instead all about being provocative and different and communicating some deep message that actually has to be explained to people separately.

The US animation industry mostly gave up in the 80s and started sending all the work to Asia. Not a recipe for developing a high quality industry.

And filtered. I advise everyone else to do the same

Rick and Morty has a few hot girls in it.

Basic fucking marketing: if you want adults to watch it then they can't accidentally mistake it for a show for children.

People are stupid and no one ever lost money underestimating the American public.

Several factors from the Hays Code to soccer moms with no discernible tastes to talent and money. It's why Eurasian animation is king of the hill

Announcing filters should be ban worthy

Because animation is for children and adults can't take it seriously.

It seems to be just a cultural prejudice. Animation became associated with children and childishness. People don't look at the actual substance of an individual animated work to determine if it's childish or not, they just respond to the fact that it's animated.

>The US animation industry mostly gave up in the 80s and started sending all the work to Asia
Nobody wanted to, it was the animation union pandering to movie animators over TV ones and making TV animation too expensive to do in-house. Stop talking about shit you don't understand

The thing is even limited animation can look good. Japan is famous for making the best use of tiny budgets, closeups, mouth flapping etc. and still it all works. Above all, it's pretty to look at. In the West limited animation has usually looked like shit, with some exceptions (think Scooby Doo with those wonderful backgrounds and appealing character designs).

Raw skill is totally absent on top of things you said - by this meaningless need to be "original" and "unique" being actually GOOD became less and less important, and now we're stuck in a total rut from which we may not emerge at all. The number of shows worth watching per year is about one or two. That right there is a sign of a total collapse.

Don't reply to him. He has his mind made up and won't be shaken by things like facts

This isnt true you retarded tripfag.

It's just that japans anime industry is slave labour, and animators work for less money than fast food workers because they love anime so much and are abused x infinity. If animators there demanded livable wages the whole industry would collapse (which it should).

>US animation
Ok, at least you've moved from the batshit insane idea that nothing good has come from film as a whole. But even then, what do you want me to point to specific to animation? Disney films before Iger's greed ruined them? All the theatrical shorts that came out? Independent animation? There's tons of stuff to make your overall weeb-filled opinion quite unintelligent

>it's another "why are americans retarded" episode
lead paint was banned in '76 and leaded gas wasn't fully banned in the US until 1996 and anyone older than ~35 was likely exposed to large amounts of airborne lead as a small child

Microplastic saturation hit a turning point in the mid-2000's and anyone younger than 18 developed with literal plastic beads in their brains

Attached: 4b6.jpg (180x242, 9K)

Basically it's like this.

Kids DO NOT GIVE A FUCK if the show is animated all FBF, or is a rigged 2d tweened whatever.

NOT a single fuck.

So the shows on tv transitioned to that because it cut costs like mad.

As far as animation in the west goes, it's completely for kids and is not taken seriously at all. Changing that perception at this point is incredibly hard and its uncertain if its even possible. So no adult animation in the west exists outside of... animated sitcomcs. Which "adults" like a lot, and it feels "acceptable" an not child cartoonish.

>Muh anime budgets
It's because they pay the staff way less than they do in the west. Scale the budget to the amount of said budget being spent and Anime has much higher budgets. I've had to explain this at least fifty times because nobody on Yea Forums knows shit about animation

I don't know about you, but most people I've met watch way more cartoons than live action shows, and I've traveled across the whole east coast of the US several times and met a lot of people in doing so

Inb4 someone does prettiest adult cartoon and it sells like hotcakes.

I've heard a lot of different stories about why all the work started getting sent to Asia, none of them sourced. In any case the outcome was that the work got sent to Asia.

How much do Korean animators make? Nobody seems to know, or care, but the entire reason why work is sent there is because it's much cheaper. There have also been problems with CG animators/artists on American productions getting screwed over.

But this isn't even about money. Japanese animators generally make poor money, but the reason why they produce great work is because of skill and dedication. If Korean animators and their American handlers are making such good money, why aren't they producing better quality?

That's just your tiny personal bias and tv ratings for shit show what people are actually watching, and sadly it doesn't corelate with your perception. Even the world blasting popular rick and morty view wise is shit compared to some of the sitcomcs/hbo shows.

They tried with castelvania and it lost to bigmouth

Sisyphus's Ordeal.

>better quality
because it's LITERALLY not up to them. The show directors come in and say:

we want this art style animated with this tool set, and this many ONMODEL episodes by this date. They don't get to sit around and take time to make animation, they have to do this shit rapid and shit it out.

I source mine to John K

The director of an anime has full control over the production too.

It only has full up to control to whatever the network allots budget/target dates. Sure you can try to do a show FBF with the tiny budget you have but you aren't gonna make more than a few episodes.

Who you were replying to and I can agree to this. Much of the issues with American animation is the idea of wanting to cost-cut as much as possible and who they target too. But that's not what he said, he said that America has produced no good animation in its entire history. Which obviously is quite shit.
The perception can change, it changed with capeshit. Takes that certain thing to do so. All the animated sitcom shit doesn't quite do it but it gives a base

Then explain why animators in the West get paid livable wages and have gigantic budgets yet the end result always looks like shit.

>live action

Is cancer, yes, I utterly despise Hollywood and above all actors and celebrities.

Let me put it this way - for every good cartoon or animated film the West has produced Japan produced a dozen or so. This is not a competition, Japan dominates the animation market and you are NOT competing with them because you aren't even playing the same game. They're the pros, you're the amateurs.

Honestly this is all just about Americans still thinking they're "the best" at this or that because their country mattered once. It's hubris of a country circling the drain. Anime? Weeb shit. China? It'll collapse today. It's that sort of mentality. In the end it isn't about animation, just a shameful dispray.

Japanese directors also have to put up with whatever budgets and schedules they are given. Broadcasters, producers and financers etc. are part of both industries and have an effect on how the industries work.

Anime studios pay the artists less, so they can afford to hire more people, do more in-house (meaning tighter quality control), and work longer on each episode. American studios can't afford any of that BECAUSE those things all cost more in America

I don't get what moon logic you have to be working on to think that things costing more somehow makes it better for studios

Because ANIMATION is NOT DONE in USA. Animation largely is done in canada/korea. The things done in USA is the preproduction (writing/character design/animatics/bgs/etc). The places where it's actually animated is far cheaper.
Dude, again. Animators in japan are paid fucking SLAVE wages. Anime exists from the blood and tears of japanese animators, and if they unionized and finally got some respect, anime production would be cut down by like 80%.

It really, honest to god sounds like you're basing this on political hatred rather then the actual products

I know you fucks don't actually wanna look how bad things are in Japan in terms of anime production, but here's someone actually over there speaking out about how bad it is.

animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2019-04-22/jojo-bizarre-adventure-character-designer-expresses-disappointment-in-anime-industry/.146007

See You're making no fucking sense

Read you fucking imbecile.

Animators in japan literally live/sleep at the office and are also supported by their parents, because the wage they make isnt enough to even rent rooms together.

Really? Because to me it sounds like your guys are doing it. I do chalk this up to your youth and inexperience since neither the US nor its citizens have lived through the shit so to speak. This experience of a decline is totally new to you so you lash out at anyone or anything that doesn't imply you're the best.

Americans are used to being #1, because they usually are. Except when they aren't, like in the case of animation. Then it becomes a matter of wounded national pride.

>slave
Why does everyone always keep throwing around this word? They aren't slaves. They aren't being forced to work in anime. They're there voluntarily.

American productions have budgets several times higher than Japan's, but still outsource most of their work to cheaper Asian countries and also overpay voice actors and possibly other people. These facts seems to be barely recognized by anyone.

In-between and key animators don't make the same money, and when you're a key animator you can also take other kinds of work that pays more (animation direction, storyboarding, episode direction).

>like anime, be in japan
>want to animate
>go in industry
>every single studio pays nothing and forces you to work long hours, and even your parents have to support you
>you do it because you love anime, and there is nowhere better to go because every studio pays the same nothing
>if japan started to pay a living wage that animators in west get, then whole industry collapses
>gee weez whats wrong with making people work obscene hours for no pay just cause they like anime and have no alternatives

That's not how it works. As someone whos in the animation industry there's so many misconceptions here like this post it's not even funny. You do not simply go from inbetweener to another position like you think.

Exactly. You can hire a million of those fuckers for nothing. A super high quality veteran animator costs as much as a janitor, so even low budget shows can afford high quality animation

In american animation you need to outsource because animators cost too much, and said oversees animators are really hard to work with on account of not speaking english

This guy gets it

Story>art

There are barely any animators in America. The work is outsourced to Korea and other cheaper Asian countries. In the 80s it was, ironically, outsourced to Japan. How much do those Asian animators earn? Nobody knows, nobody cares. Few people even acknowledge that they exist.

Not all anime studios pay the same, and once you become a key animator you can start making more money. How the industry would be affected if pay was raised is an open question because we don't have enough information.

You can become a key animator right away if you are good enough. You can become a key animator before you've even graduated high school if you're good enough. In-betweening is regarded as an entry level and training position.

There's only a limited number of high quality veteran animators, and they only have a limited amount of time.

because even half decent looking shows cost too much money

Attached: 546345634.jpg (1280x720, 116K)

Imagine correcting someone who actually works in animation about animation

Cheap and simple to make for American consumerists who don’t give a shit what they are fed.

Just look at Netflix.

Animation isn't made by pouring coins into an animation machine. Quality depends not just on money but also the skill and dedication of the crew, and making a show with good design sense and shot composition etc. doesn't magically cost more money.

The Japanese animation industry is completely different from Western industries.

>You can become a key animator right away if you are good enough. You can become a key animator before you've even graduated high school if you're good enough. In-betweening is regarded as an entry level and training position.

You literally can't. If you try to advance in a studio from the get go you'll get laughed out of the interview room. Unless you can bring a portfolio that shows your high quality work, AND tv work experience (just because you can do good keyframes doesnt mean dick if you can't work in a studio environment and slow down the whole process).

He's in the japanese industry you fucking goon

>but also the skill and dedication of the crew
and no crew wants to be undercut on a paycheck that knows how good they actually are. Nobody is gonna draw better than the slop we see now and ask for less

>it just requires intent, skill and effort.
Which requires money.

blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/08/18/animes-future-china-and-megumi-ishitani/

>It would be amiss if we didn’t start our series on promising young creators with the artist who has it in his hand to shatter all precocity records. ちな (hereon China, as confusing as that might sound) debuted as key animator on YuruYuri S2 #6 at the incredible age of 16, entirely bypassing the standard progression from in-betweening to keys, and doing so many years before he was supposed to start. Studio Dogakobo was at the time notorious for trusting young artists an immense amount, to the point you would see people who were still limited to grunt work in regular studios being tasked with important roles over there.
Lots of people have also been hired just based on web animations they've done. If you can demonstrate that you have the skill then you can become a key animator.

That's unlikely, and even if he is he is still wrong.

Are you by any chance autistic?

South Park, when it debuted, was the single hottest show on cable. It, and The Simpsons, were terrible influences on adult shows, since it encouraged all adult shows to have bad visuals.

It's sort of like how most newspaper comics were/are badly drawn because of Segar and Schulz.

If they want to price themselves out of a job, that's their problem.

Only up to a certain point.

Are you by chance trying to change the topic?

Answer my question.

its always like art as a medium doesnt matter so long as you get a story across. Most of the shows talked about are comedy and that doesnt exactly require thought provoking visuals.

Seriously, nigger? Yeah, you're just trying to change the topic. You talked out of your ass and got caught, and now it's time for damage control.

Jesus christ. Your own example is of someone who skipped the line (a huge fringe), and as article says for many its years of climbing ladder out of job position to higher position. Even those people mentioned there aren't guaranteed jobs at said keyframe position.

I dont know how much more proof i have to show you that the industry is broken and made from slave labor, if you want to keep believing that japan is a magical land of happy animators and they arent all starving, and that the west should emulate to you then kudos, you are the most fucking delusion retard on this site.

>If they want to price themselves out of a job, that's their problem.
They dont have to when they can just choose to draw shitty instead of putting in effort. The studio gets what they paid for

Attached: 54634543563.jpg (1200x800, 125K)

Sort of like how the MCU relies on a mix of comedy and seriousness. If you go full-serious like the Batman trilogy, you end up becoming a laughing stock of embarrassment

The normal process in the industry is that you start as an in-betweener and work your way to key animation, but my whole point is that if you can demonstrate your skill then you can skip that. It's not a requirement.

>slave labor
We already went over this. There is no slave labor in the anime industry. And people are still ignoring the US industry's use of outsourced labor.

>if you want to keep believing that japan is a magical land of happy animators and they arent all starvin
Can you show me where I expressed such a belief?

Maybe treating animation as just a job is the problem then. Japanese animators put in huge effort even though they aren't paid a lot.

Stop trying to correct an actual anime animator on anime you delusional autist

You've never proven that you work in the anime industry you delusional autist, and in any case facts are facts. Even Miyazaki doesn't know what he's talking about half the time.

He sure as fuck knows more than you. Who the fuck do you think you are?

No, he doesn't. The truth value of a statement isn't determined by the level of perceived authority of the person making the statement.

You must be 18 or older to post here.

I am 18 or older. Do you have an actual argument to share?

>I am 18 or older

Yes, that's what I just said. What are you trying to do in this thread?

>Japanese animators put in huge effort even though they aren't paid a lot.
Such a glamorous job. Let me count all the world renowned animators with my 1 hand.
2,250 pesos working 14 hours a day for one of the better known studios with many unbooked overtime hours sounds like a fucking blast

Attached: payday.jpg (872x636, 185K)

I never said it's easy. What's your point?

Because adults can appreciate art, their entertainment doesn't hinge on the picture being visually appealing at the most superficial level.

Attached: 9f5.png (1280x720, 2.64M)

Alright dude, you are literally endorsing the slave wage conditions of japanese workers (and you have been linked to sources of it), yet you keep ignoring it and saying that the workers there just "work better" for no pay and its a good thing.

Clearly, you can't be convinced otherwise and i'm trying to do so.

I simply don't believe you. Come back after you've worked a job.

You say that like visual quality isn't an important component of live action film.

Once again, there are no slaves in the anime industry. You have done nothing to prove that there are slaves in the anime industry. You just keep repeating that there are. You also keep ignoring the fact that American shows outsource their production to cheaper Asian countries.

>yet you keep ignoring it and saying that the workers there just "work better" for no pay and its a good thing.
I am saying that it isn't just some job to them, they put in so much effort for the sake of art. This isn't something unheard of outside anime, either.

I have worked a job, kid. What is your point? What are you even arguing about?

Here's the link again you fuckhead.

animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2019-04-22/jojo-bizarre-adventure-character-designer-expresses-disappointment-in-anime-industry/.146007

I hope your retarded ass can learn to click one day.

you're all tripcode and no substance

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the easy isnt the point of the conversation. its the pay

I'm pretty sure the thread was about animation, not live action. But no, it isn't. Writing is.

I already saw that when ANN originally posted it. What is your point?

The same principle applies to live action.

>Kaziklu
>A Croatian pedophile known for his long-winded racist rants. He brings prepared speeches and loves to soapbox about the downfall of Western society and global decency, in particular how homosexuals are evil. Frequently appears in Ruby Gloom threads, or at least used to; he threw the hissy fit to end all hissy fits when he learnt from a woman who'd worked on that Ruby and her friends were probably all in their 20's, thereby deflating his boner. The only worthwhile contribution he made was introducing Yea Forums to 'Serenity', a hilariously preachy "American Christian Manga" with no relation whatsoever to the kickass sci-fi movie by Joss Whedon.

And to Japanese animators it's about more than just pay. They go the extra mile even if they aren't paid for it.

Are you blind or just plain retarded? They go the extra mile because otherwise they get fired, and even though they "love" animating they are abused and taken advantage off and the pay they get is less than mcdonalds workers. You are clearly trolling at this point as you completely ignore everything said in the link, and no you didn't link it because i was the poster of that.

Obsessed

Here's the actual reasons. Ignore the autistic weeb, this is the only post ITT worth reading. Pic only semi-related by the way

1) Family guy, Rick and Morty, The Simpsons and South Park are all massively successful franchises, and television execs would much rather repeat something that works than try something new and potentially fail

2) Said shows became successful far enough apart from one-another that it went from being a trend to a standard. It's simply the way adult animation looks in the mind of the industry

3) Most adult animated shows in made America are created by writers, not artists, and as a result the art is seen as a vehicle for the writing; an afterthought to the story and the voice-acting

4) Ugly drawings are, to most people, funnier than pretty ones, and since the majority of adult animation made in America is comedy, they use ugly styles.

5) The storyboards aren't actually storyboards, but more like a weird key-animation storyboard hybrids. The storyboarders are expected to draw more-or-less perfectly on-model, and since the union puts boarders wages really high, they can only have a handful of dudes doing the art of each episode. This means the art needs to be easy to draw fast so the crew can meat deadlines

Attached: file.jpg (1600x1238, 320K)

>It takes effort to create beautiful things and the US is no longer capable of that, if it ever was.
I don't know about that. It took a lot of effort to build the atomic bomb and it was more beautiful than anything from that island of rapist cannibals you weebs idolize.

They aren't in the anime industry because they wanted an easy-going job that would make them money. Your problem is that you see animation as nothing more than a job that's about getting as much money as possible, and that getting better animation is just about paying more money to animators.

>You are clearly trolling at this point as you completely ignore everything said in the link, and no you didn't link it because i was the poster of that.
I didn't troll anywhere and I already saw your link days ago. Again, what's your point?

>WAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH why isn't the entire world like how I want it! We should invade Japan so we can make their animation like ours!

Imagine seething this hard.

>animator abuse is okay as long as I get my endless waifu kawaii uguu shit every week

ok

Where did I say animator abuse is okay?

>endless waifu kawaii uguu shit
Doesn't exist.

that image is fucking horrific, holy shit

>I didn't troll anywhere and I already saw your link days ago. Again, what's your point?
It's pretty clear his point is that you're explicitly ignoring his link as it's a refutation to your claims.

Whoever wrote that used cringe enough wording that I despise both them and the tripfag.

How does it refute my claims?

>4) Ugly drawings are, to most people, funnier than pretty ones, and since the majority of adult animation made in America is comedy, they use ugly styles.
The amount of dark comedy in Rick and Morty really doesn't need to be in realistic style. You'd just be watching a bunch of short gorror films with snarky comments in them.

Animation isn't art, kid. It is a long and mindnumbingly tedious process. It isn't even very hard. It's just that you have to draw the same image 1000 times with very slight differences. Drawing one pretty picture is art. Drawing it 1000 times is labor.

par the course considering the subject matter

weebs are stupid, as long as we're on Yea Forums they'll defend whatever goes on in that stupid country and it's never really been contained to one board. you about anything anywhere and you get japan is better at this, they have better work ethic than westerners, blah blah it's all nonsense considering how miserable, under-sexed, and confined the japanese people are to that frustrated little island of theirs. and that outdated little system of writing they have.. jesus. they're not god's greatest gift to mankind, just regular everyday people

>only children can like aesthetically pleasing thing
The fuck kids shows are you watching?

It very much is art, and I'm older than you.

>It isn't even very hard. It's just that you have to draw the same image 1000 times with very slight differences.
You have to be able to draw good images, and you have to be able to convincingly convey things like weight and inertia and maintain perspective and proportions and so on. The skill of individual animators varies wildly.

>Drawing one pretty picture is art. Drawing it 1000 times is labor.
That's not what animation is. You aren't just drawing the same image repeatedly or just making minor variations.

Can you show evidence that I'm a weeb?

>you about anything anywhere and you get japan is better at this, they have better work ethic than westerners, blah blah it's all nonsense considering how miserable, under-sexed, and confined the japanese people are to that frustrated little island of theirs. and that outdated little system of writing they have.. jesus. they're not god's greatest gift to mankind, just regular everyday people
You are a reverse weeb who thinks that the West is unquestionably the best at everything and Japan must always be inferior, even when it's demonstrated that Japan is better at something (such as animation).

>That's not what animation is. You aren't just drawing the same image repeatedly or just making minor variations.
depending on what part of the animation you do...yeah it'll be like that.

beauty is not synonymous with quality
especially in live action, where it takes real talent t crate something profoundly ugly without it just looking goofy

This. It's to make it instantly clear for anyone just catching a glimpse who would instantly decide animation=kids show and either change or put their 4 year old in front of it to distract them that it's an adult cartoon.

It's like why early anime dubs of stuff that had non kid friendly content would add random cursing where it didn't belong.

>Can you show evidence that I'm a weeb?
yeah, without fail every single time, no matter what it is we're talking about you people need to drag anime into everything here. it's almost always the crux of your argument and you purposely ignore everything western.

it's clockwork for your type

Attached: IMG_9457.jpg (1242x2208, 205K)

It could be like that if it's something very basic, but that's not what we're talking about.

Can you show me where I dragged anime into the thread out of the blue? Can you explain how I've been ignoring the West when I've repeatedly pointed out that America outsources its animation, while almost everyone else has ignored it?

>Can you show me where I dragged anime into the thread out of the blue
Yeah let me check these anonymous posts for your post record.

Downvoted

Then why did you just accuse me of dragging anime into the thread out of the blue?

nobody cares

I didn't and nor can you prove I did.

Why do people say this when it's very obviously not true?

So you didn't post and ? Then what is your involvement here?

>Then what is your involvement here?
How new are you?

Not new at all. Does this mean you can't answer the question?

No

What is your answer then?

adult animation is a really niche spot in western entertainment, this kind of style has basically become the "brand" for it. Having stylized, nice looking art would be off brand. Audiences are supposed to instantly know just from looking at the art who its supposed to appeal to. Every second it takes for the target demographic to understand that it's for them is a strike against it. They're not going to go for a new style when they already have a distinct, established one they can lean on. That'd be like having a show in french with english subtitles. Why? Why use french when they could just use english and everyone could INSTANTLY know and understand that the show is for them. Nice art would distance and confuse their audience.

The reason why this happened is because the minute animation starts taking itself seriously in the west, it's seen as pathetic. The only way animated shows can break into the mainstream is if 1) it's for kids who "don't know any better or 2) it's for adults, but it pokes fun at itself.

It has to be making fun of itself constantly so the adult audience knows that they're not SUPPOSED to be taking it seriously, so it's OKAY for them to enjoy, cause it's just a joke.

It's really sad and it would take a massive cultural movement to change it. I'd say it'd be impossible but we just saw that transformation happen for superhero movies, which also used to be hyper-niche and deliberately shitty, for the exact same reasons as above: it had to be shitty/making fun of itself for the mainstream to accept it. So who knows.

Rick and Morty has decent animation from what I've seen here and there. It makes me with it was just more "Adult Pulp Fiction fun" rather than another adult show where everyone is miserable and makes you want to consider suicide at the realization of how fucked and bad everything is.

Maybe

>The reason why this happened is because the minute animation starts taking itself seriously in the west, it's seen as pathetic.

Then how do shows like Archer exist? It's hardly horrible to look at.

Who in the world hates SpongeBob?

Its ugly, sure, but its more about keeping it simple and shape based for easy animation.

Not the West. America. Animation is much more serious in Europe.

Your answer to is maybe? That's a non-sequitur.

Could be.

You're just dancing around the fact that you have no answer to the question, yet for some reason you just can't leave the thread. I can't fathom why you got involved in this in the first place.

It is enjoyable to me how much you care.

contrarians

You're in no position to pretend to not care.

Pussy

>adult animation is a really niche spot in western entertainment
yes exactly, and things here unfortunately tend to be very closed off and samey. anime has this thing where the medium approached adult subjects and science fiction plots because of a huge difference in culture. anime has tons of shit on adult western animation but as a result weebs have this tendency to come and complain about how aesthetically unpleasing our cartoons are and etc. i'm not even sure if they mean to do this on purpose or if its a subconscious thing because it's all they ever think about. it just makes you want to tell them to fuck off and disappear. arguing with those types is usually a fruitless endeavor because these guys are tonedeaf and unaware that trends and influences tend to cross borders. but no no, go ahead keep posting unsolicited sakuga and trying to make the argument that the west is incapable of having good art and writing. it always fucking works out for you, right??

the question that's always being asked is Why can't the west just be more like japan when it comes to animation?? i think the better question is WHY??

you sound like a huge faggot

Rent Free!

Attached: Freedom.gif (250x250, 1.22M)

>Why should the west be more like japan when it comes to animation?
and if you're wondering what I'm trying to say it's that there's no answer to this question, it's just posturing that one does to insinuate that their tastes are better than someone else's. it's all subjective, arbitrary, and at the end of the day annoying.

BASED

> japan
> skills
DUDE POWERPOINT SLIDES

adult animation is story and dialgue driven only a 5 year old would focus on PURDY PICTURES

Attached: 62371B4D-B63E-43D9-87CA-C554ABD168D5.jpg (630x420, 25K)

>trends and influences tend to cross borders
This almost never means that Japanese animation is influenced by American animation.

>trying to make the argument that the west is incapable of having good art and writing
It sure is very difficult for them to make it happen. Avatar is their crowning achievement and that was only possible because of an elite Korean studio. And it was heavily inspired by anime.

>i think the better question is WHY??
Because it would mean higher production quality and more varied shows. People here are always asking why they can't have more adult shows.

Dude internet memes by people who've never seen anime.

You could just as well say this about live action, yet visuals have always been integral to live action. Citizen Kane isn't famous because the story was so deep but because of its filmmaking techniques.

>why do cartoons made to make people laugh look funny?
gee, i don't know, op. I don't fucking know
protip: not everyone masturbates to cartoon characters. in fact, fapping to cartoons is widely considered deviant behavior

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>Big Mouth
>Targeted at adults
>Not awkward teenagers

The only people who think big mouth is for adults are the 7th graders who love how "mature" it is. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you're a retard, though.

>Because it would mean higher production quality and more varied shows.
yeah that costs too much money and takes too much time, meanwhile in asia you can just stack people on top of each other, and you'd get some shit done because they're used to it. over here control over animation is mostly relegated to the storyboard because we actually have self-respect. the differences in how workers are compensated shows that there's a huge tradeoff in employee/employer relations. yeah in japan animators work in that industry because they love it and the pay is shit but i don't care much for your angle

>I watch movies for "techniques"

faggot

It doesn't take more money, and one of the pillars of the anime style is that it's a very cost-effective way of doing animation. And the flipside of the anime industry's lower wages is that it also doesn't overpay people and thus waste money.

Making more varied shows is not more expensive.

>meanwhile in asia you can just stack people on top of each other, and you'd get some shit done because they're used to it.
As I have pointed out over, over and over again to deaf ears, American animation is outsourced to Asia. And making high quality anime is not achieved by just throwing people at the production.

> over here control over animation is mostly relegated to the storyboard because we actually have self-respect.
What is this supposed to mean?

You'd be laughed out of the room in record time if you told critics, scholars, directors or cinephiles that filmmaking doesn't matter and only story matters.

>being laughed at by a bunch of nerds and faggots
lmao who cares

As opposed to who? Who exactly is more important to film than critics, scholars, directors and cinephiles?

Why not just read a book?

>Making more varied shows is not more expensive.
Yes it is. Original more varied shows are a huge risk in our reboot laden era where people only watch what they recognize. If you fail to capture an audience your entire investment just went down the toilet. People get turned down everyday because of this.
>What is this supposed to mean?
They send all the inbetweens to asia because all the calculations and planning are done here. It's a simple numbers game and any morons can fill in what goes between some poses. It's soulless and assembly line as fuck but everywhere has a different way of doing things

Non-original shows aren't guaranteed to succeed either, and if the American industry was more like the anime industry then there would be less risk involved.

>They send all the inbetweens to asia because all the calculations and planning are done here. It's a simple numbers game and any morons can fill in what goes between some poses. It's soulless and assembly line as fuck but everywhere has a different way of doing things
The key animation is done in Asia too. How does this mean Americans have more self-respect?

Seriously. They're willing to work 16 hour days for minimum wage just so they can draw their favorite waifu.

Archer looks fuckugly

because SJW milenial lazyness, they dont know how to draw, they are stagnant also.

you'd think we get artstyles like this

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Late millenials and early zoomers, mostly because other people like it.

an invalid question. there is no legitimate authority on such matters that is actually important beyond their ability to convince people they are right.

Well you go right ahead and tell yourself that filmmaking doesn't matter. The actual filmmakers who make the films you watch will still continue to practise filmmaking.

I agree but your using a trip so it’s basically nothing

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>The Simpsons
In royalties, maybe.

That's capitalism for you user

well everybody needs a hobby. good for them

>How does this mean Americans have more self-respect?
We Americans cost too much to sit around and draw all those frames. That has the potential to tank an entire production. The most laborious and time consuming aspect of animation (inbetweening) got sent to asia when they realized they could figure out everything here and have greater control of the aspects that were chosen to stay in the country. Now looking at the shit that's on CN I'm not defending bad art direction or anything but with this logic you would think art improved. Unfortunately inbetweeners aren't exactly the best artists so it's best to keep things simple. I'm talking circles and geometric shapes. Canada has this unique problem where their cartoons are all awarded the same amount of money by the government and when the medium eventually shifted towards flash they were able to counteract some of this by keeping the work in the region. Kinda vaguely related

This. Yea Forums is full of some of the most hypocritical unaware dumbfucks on the planet who spend so much time around other social rejects that they've convinced themselves that they're the norm

Protip to all you fucking degenerates; beauty =/= sexual attractiveness, and aesthetic appeal =/= beauty. Same goes for muh detail and muh realism. Stop using how much you can fap to a show as a measure of how good it is

the fuck
i'v never heard of anyone hated basedbob

>You'd be laughed out of the room in record time if you told critics, scholars, directors or cinephiles that filmmaking
Good, i wouldn't be in a madhouse in the first place

>beauty =/= sexual attractiveness
just had to shoehorn that in there didnt you you cunt

What matters most is pacing, which most people do not understand.

Again, the key animation is also done in Asia. It's ludicrous to say that you have more self-respect because you outsource the bulk of your work to other people.

>Unfortunately inbetweeners aren't exactly the best artists so it's best to keep things simple.
The anime industry needs in-betweeners too, and nothing is being kept simple for their sake.

I didn't shoehorn in anything. That is honest to god the only thing anyone on this godforsaken website cares about.

Beauty is necessary for sexual attractiveness, but sexual attractiveness is not the only form of beauty

Are you still doing this shit? I went away for a while and I come back and your autism is still flowing. Do you have a life outside of your computer or is this all you do?

There is no autism, there is just you trying to change the subject because you have no arguments.

Because they're based on the creator's style but just cleaned up a bi?

The Simpsons looks like how Matt Groening draws.
Family Guy looks like how Seth MacFarlane draws.
Rick and Morty sort of looks like how Justin Roiland would draw if he could draw better than a third grader.

I knew it! You're the autist who denies the existence of autism. Honest question; how do you get to these threads so fast, and how do you keep it up for so long?

Calarts

I don't understand why you redditors keep coming here and trying to force your reddit logic on the site. Nobody is forcing you into this. You don't have to come here. You can stay on reddit.

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He is the center of basically every east vs west thread. It's almost always just him vs a bunch of anons trying to correct him while he denies objective fact

I'm trying to talk about the topic, yet as always some redditor come along and tries and usually succeeds in forcing the thread to become about me instead, and then it's somehow all my fault.

>trying to correct him while he denies objective fact
Yet you can't show even one instance of me being wrong about something in this thread.

it really depends on the show
most modern shows I see really fit into this category, but I've seen plenty of significantly better looking shows

I'd call characters in Metalocalypse ugly, but the show itself looks pretty damned awesome to me
Mike Tyson Mysteries looks pretty good
Frisky Dingo & Archer both had a cool look to them
Drawn Together looks great
King of the Hill has a good look to it
I haven't seen much of the early seasons, but I thought Beavis & Butthead looked good (save the title characters)
Harvey Birdman looked great, even if that was mostly just stealing from old Hannah-Barbara designs
and lastly, the Venture Bros has always looked pretty damned good
these are just off the top of my head and, sadly, only the final one is still running

hes right, take some animation history

The topic (one of your favorite words) had nothing to do with anime, you made it about anime because you have autism

you could get a tripcode

it really depends on the show
most modern shows I see really fit into this category, but I've seen plenty of significantly better looking shows

I'd call characters in Metalocalypse ugly, but the show itself looks pretty damned awesome to me
Mike Tyson Mysteries looks pretty good
Frisky Dingo & Archer both had a cool look to them
Drawn Together looks great
King of the Hill has a good look to it
I haven't seen much of the early seasons, but I thought Beavis & Butthead looked good (save the title characters)
Harvey Birdman looked great, even if that was mostly just stealing from old Hannah-Barbara designs
and lastly, the Venture Bros has always looked pretty damned good
these are just off the top of my head and, sadly, only the final one and Archer still running

He's not. Take some animation history

You can't show that I made this thread about anime and you can't show that I have autism. You don't even care about the topic, you just want e-drama.

You could go back.

Wrong.

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nah, i like it here
it's cozy and full of women

Read the OP. What does it have to do with anime? Oh right, fucking nothing

If we wanted to talk about anime we'd go to fucking Yea Forums. Shut the fuck up about anime. Nobody here wants to hear it

they just want weeaboo fanservice shit..

Show me where I made this about anime. You absolutely can't, because that absolutely never happened. And why are you even acting like anime absolutely cannot ever be brought up on Yea Forums no matter the context? That's nonsense.

>Shut the fuck up about anime. Nobody here wants to hear it
Complete nonsense.

>Complete nonsense.
So then why does everyone hate you?

You're doing it again, trying to make this all about me. The only thing you care about is manufacturing e-drama involving me. Then you make up stories about me derailing threads, as if you weren't the one doing that.

Make up stories? Fucking what stories?

Kneel.

Like the story you just told about me turning this thread towards anime, which factually never happened. Meanwhile you're trying to turn the thread towards me, the only thing you care about. Every thread should just be about me, me, me.

?

I care about you because this thread is a fucking disaster thanks pretty much entirely to you

KNEEL, dog.

Lmfao u dumb as hell

I didn't make this thread about anime. I didn't make this thread about me. You made this thread about me. You are making up accusations so you can argue against me, about me. You are a complete faggot.

What in the hell are you babbling about?

>argue
that's cute

Yes, argue. That's what you're trying to do.

Hark, for such grandiosity cannot be abated without due tribulation by the correct manner of courtly procedure. You stake such claims, most excruciating in your bothersome and tepid incantations, spewing your innocuous yet somewhat frustrating drivel into the stratosphere of intellectual debate. You see, only the more intelligent beings, of which I’m afraid the toils and tribulations of scientific merit have proven, are capable of broaching such esoteric debate of anime in a dignified and cognitive dimension. Alas, it seems the contumacious dogs cannot hope to reach these swirling miasmas of turgid thoughts and scintillating discussion, and so must, be their inferior nature, loudly and extravagantly emit their brainless and unwanted thoughts into a higher dimension of debate. Well, 'tis thine lucky day, dog, as the gods of Olympus high have taken notice of your perfidious and thoughtless ramblings. You have managed to irk them somewhat in your crusade of misinformed drivel, which you propel into a temple to the mind, such a place beyond your understanding, and yet sullied by your foul words. Yes, we have taken notice, and we say silence. Silence, dog, and worship your gods!

No it's not.

Gee, things sure are escalating...

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Ok, call it whatever you like. You're still a complete faggot who is obsessed with me and derails threads and then blames me for it.

literally nobody hates spong

I wasn't even here for the first 200 posts autismo

Yeah, you weren't. You showed up here just now and decided that now the thread has to be about me and your homo obsession with me instead of anything relevant to the topic.

fuck off homopjobe!

What a dumb faggot response.

So much for this thread. redditors have to ruin everything.

stop callinh people the f word

more like ledditors lmao goteem

Because they need to visually differentiate from childrens cartoons because your country is filled with idiot pearl-clutching soccer moms.

SJWs aren't real

Stuff like South Park, Happy Tree Friends, Moral Orel and Wonder Showzen look like kids shows, so I don't think that's a reason.

Why is Big Mouth so shit lads? That show really fucking stinks

You are a literal fucking retard. Just shut up already.

It's designed for normal teenage kids with social lives, none of which are categories that the average Yea Forums user fits into

literally all those shows use their kid-friendly styles as a meta joke to be as raunchy or dark as possible

Retardation isn't real :^)

I thought the consensus was that the early stuff was great but recent seasons are shite.

user there /aren't/ any recent episodes... the show ended in 2004... you have to wake up

Networks like Adult Swim are weird because a lot of their original shows seem to go out of their way to make things look as ugly as possible.

I understand wanting cheap animation, I understand there's a market for making comedy aimed at adults, I understand stylized designs, but why do so many series try to make the overall art style look so unappealing? Who is drawn to this?

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Everyone always says art is in decline. It comes and goes in cycles of different trends

South Park looks pretty cute actually

Because of shit like your pic and mine. These things can't be done in live action (at least not cheaply) nor can you use the same actors for as many roles.

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Shut the hell up, you'd get all flustered and mumble in your incorrigible 5 words you've learned your entire life before you go tear up like the zoomer faggots you are.

>HUe hue I'm a tough guy
Suck a dick. You idiots don't even have the balls to grab the microphone and ask serious questions to the voice actors. It's always garbage off-topic questions related to the writers and flavor questions rather than what the voice actors could actually answer or want to answer.

Ok, I'm watching the Riddick cartoon. Brb.

Eh, rnm aren't that ugly. And do consider the themes of the show. It being cutesy, wouldn't make sense.

I could only find it in italian.

>Animation is for children
>Here am I in my early 30s and people watch Attack on Titan and the DBS movie
How long until everyone who says animation is for children dies? The new generations that watch normies anime can't hold that view.

Because americans can't into aesthetics that's why.

You faggots blame SJW for everything

>mfw aged 36
fuck I got gassed

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>That's why the term uglier exists, that's why the term is still used today in relation to society, and that's why I don't support such ugliness, regardless of how many times I have it shouted at me for it. Ugly people are not the norm.

The problem I see with SJW tactics is not SJW artists, but SJW consumers. This is the reason why I haven't bought a TV, a computer, a DVD player, a laptop, or a mobile phone from SJW stores for years. I see it in the way they try to sell things, and I hate for other people to have to struggle in this world because they've been manipulated by SJW tactics

Gonna be a long time as it's a generational mentality

Because they are parodies of kids shows.

When you've grown up everything just seems uglier.

I'm pretty sure AS rejects show pitches if they look too "cute". Making it as grotesquely ugly as possible is the easiest way to get a show on adult swim, that's probably how complete and utter shit like The Jellies managed to get funded.

> implying Rick and Morty isn't for kids

> being placed directly between those two age groups

Nice. Now I only have to worry about my genetic retardation

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Because they all saw how big South Park became, but forgot that as shitty as South Park's animation is, it still has a cute looking art style.