>goes crazy because he has lost his family thanks to barry allen usual time travel
>kills a lot of heroes then covers up the incident
>makes booster and harley look like the killers
Why dc's heroes are such monsters and psychos? Is it because dc thinks they would look cooler to edgy teenagers? No surprise that people prefer marvel heroes
King is a hack
Wally and Barry are basically the same character
Is this bad HIC?
Well barry changed completely the reality because he loves his mom ruining billion people's lives. Is barry the greatest dc villain?
It’ll get retconned. Give it 5 years
Well identity crisis is still canon so
I find it really annoying that very few people in the comics call Barry out about this.
There was a good HIC?
Hal killed like fifty thousand people and no one seemed to care after he was brought back
Eh, messing around with people’s minds is morally ambiguous but not too much like multiple murders. Hal got retconned by Johns. Let Geoff take a crack at Wally
It's DC. What do you expect? Civilians dont just care. They are waiting for the jl messing up with the multiverse and the inevitable next reboot
This. Justice league members are fucking monsters. Wasnt he a pedophile too?
Retconning a shit event is just too easy. Just like avengers 200. You have to deal with bad writing
>be dc
>make wally come back with a beautiful one shot
>seem like a new age of heroic optimism has begun
>make him the typical edgy dc hero and assassinate his character
How the hell did DC get away with this?
Is the comic out?
Wallyfags on suicide watch
No. I'm from the future
Because Johns lost what power he had when Justice League bombed and he became a scapegoat (even though the two movies he actually was in charge of were both received really well and did well). Then the people in charge that don’t believe In Optimism took back the reigns and have been derailing DC ever since
And why dc fans dont do anything? They actually are happy seeing their heroes act as villains? After civil war iron man fans wanted millar dead
Johns had a supervillian superaborting Wally's kids, then had Wally's kids dying, then he killed Barry's mom and then he erased Wally and wally's family. Fuck off johnsfag, you are a fucking retard.
Wouldn’t have changed a damn thing. We just gotta ride this out
How even at the height of his superhero paranoia; Batman never says anything about Flash’s ability to time travel on a whim?
That's the issue
>And why dc fans dont do anything? They actually are happy seeing their heroes act as villains? After civil war iron man fans wanted millar dead
Sales have been dropping for a while for most of their books with their recent relaunches having fairly soft boosts. DC's editorial just doesn't seem to care at this point.
>billions of people's lives were changed and all the reality rebooted
>wow lad everything is back to normal
DC's "heroes" are monsters. Maybe lex is right
Batman has never been paranoid, and he has never been anything but a retard on the hands of Johns.
Nop.
People always seem to forget these detail when it comes to Johns. People cheered him for Rebirth but I never forgot he helped push a more darker, a more "real", universe in the first place.
>i go on facebook
>dc you are doing great in comics. Too bad marvel is not
Editors dont care because people dont care
Seems zatanna did it again bros. Made everyone forget about that
>Why dc's heroes are such monsters and psychos? Is it because dc thinks they would look cooler to edgy teenagers? No surprise that people prefer marvel heroes
I hate that this is the reality we seem to live in now. Where fascists like Danvers and Stark and thugs like Logan and Banner are exalted by the normies while Clark and Wally are stripped of everything that made them good and pure.
You mean the universe that he almost completely ignored in Green Lantern until he had no other choice? The universe that was painfully obviously Didio and Lee's doing?
Normies don’t read comics. They’ll love him on Titans, and they already want him back on Young Justice
Or that he turned superboy prime from a kid that just wanted to go to a highschool party into one of the biggest mass murderers at DC.
Wally in the early 00s taught me 2 things.
1. Legacy characters are better than the OGs
2. Johns can actually write capes when he tries.
>fascist
>stark
T.millar
And what did king teach to ya?
Isn't the cereal king a Barry fanboy, tho?
I dont think a person who makes barry the ultimate dc villain because muh mom can qualify as barry fanboy
That Cape comics are dead.
That is pretty irrelevant, he was a captain marvel fanboy, but nerfed the shit out of billy and black adam becuase he wants superman to be top dog, Johns is only a fan of johns interpretation of the character, that's why his GL run is based on the fan fic he did when he was 13, he is a superman fanboy that turned superboy on a killer.
Only because Barry sucks so bad they needed to rip Wally off.
Wally was the last DC hero that I really really liked, now the only heroic character they have is Shazam. It’s like the company knows their heroes are shit and are doubling down on their villains
Johns was writing Wally's ongoing with full intent to have Wally save the day at the end. HiC is making Wally a victim and monster
I think king is too much a marvel fanboy to give a shit about dc characters
>even though the two movies he actually was in charge of were both received really well and did well
lol?
There is a reason why their most popular character today is an evil version of Batman, that alone shows you what DC thinks fans want
Wally West innocent
....Except his kids were fine after the Zolomon thing, and he had a plan to bring back everyone until Doomsday Clock fuckery happened?
Madness is not an excuse
Johns Titans run was awful and he ruined the cast of Young Justice.
Keep Bendis on YJ since he's doing a good job fixing all of the damage done by Johns and Lobdell.
I don't know who can fix the Titans.Will there even be any Titans left after DC is done with the upcoming event? The only ones who aren't involved in that mess are Starfire, Raven and Terra, everyone else may be on Batman Who Laughs payroll.
Fuck off Johns. Your New 52 JL run was cancer with the exception of Forever Evil. And you ruined DC animated movies with that shit, then proceeded to try the same shit with the Justice League live action movie. Which also was shit.
WW and Aquaman were made with the remnants of Snyder mythos. Both Wan and Jenkins admitted it so. Snyder had to fight the execs and Johns for Steve to be included in the WW movie and we all know he was the heart of the film. Wan literally send every scene to Snyder for approval and advice even when WB prohibited him from doing so.
Johns is a cancer. He makes his runs as movie storyboards and then try to force them into the actual movies so he can get the royalties.
He is the reason why Justice League was shit.
>>goes crazy because he has lost his family thanks to barry allen usual time travel
It's actually worse than that. He went really crazy because he couldn't believe that other heroes could possibly be suffering as much as HIM, obviously Sanctuary was a place made solely for HIM. Then he invaded the privacy of his friends and co-workers and saw the files of every hero that had gone though Sanctuary (which is a really shitty and uncool thing to do), and couldn't handle the fact that other heroes suffer too, his pain wasn't special anymore.
user if they have made iron man more beloved than supes they sure know to handle this
So he is also autistic?
He may be innocent of the deaths themselves because of bullshit speedforce stuff, but he is still guilty of
>Breach of privacy, those sessions the heroes had were confidential, what Wally did is the equivalent of planting a camera at a psychiatrist's office and then watching everything without the patient's consent
>Leaking said sessions to the press
>Tampering a crime scene
>Evidence tampering
>Body desecration
>Framing 2 innocent people, who both almost died multiple times because of the frame-up
He's not a mass murderer. Murder is a specific crime and can't be used interchangeably with the killing of.
What happen to Wally was an accident, no more different than a traffic accident.
It actually is, it's called the insanity defense. If a person is not in the right state of mind then they can be found no culpable for their action.
None of these are irredeemable acts amd certainly not as salacious as claiming DC made wally west into a mass murderer.
So what your saying is your retarded? I mean that’s good of you to admit
Sue Dibny is alive genius.
Involuntary Manslaughter is the term your looking for
The deaths were an accident but what Wally did after that was a crime.
The JL should be held accountable for negligence since they set up a mental health clinic off the grid and had no professional on site.
Sanctuary is the professional.
Is it really? For an AI allegedly programmed by Batman to have WW compassion, it seemed to lack compassion.
And it really didn't seem like any of the heroes there were getting better.The only one who seemed to actually be improving was Gnarrk, based on what we saw everyone else was using VR to escape reality(Wally) or relive their trauma(Lagoon Boy).
Because Barry murdered three timelines once, but everyone likes Wally better despite how much DC pushes Barry. So DC is trying to make Wally evil to see if they can away people against him and back to Barry again.
Hell a few higher ups in the company literally hate Wally and hate that he has such a strong fanbase even now. I remember at a panel they got angry at fans for clapping about wanting Wally back or something
G-guys i can be still a h-hero. Barry my friend lets go change reality again
T.joker
I wonder how many Wallyfags here are dirty toonfags who haven't read his comics
As a Cassfag, I feel sorry for Wallyfags. The worst Cass got was showing up in some mediocre Bat events. She never desecrated anyone’s bodies and gave their therapy sessions to the press.
He killed someone relevant?
I have not following this arc in detail, but people tend to forget and forgive if there's nobody hurt that can impact the status quo. I mean nobody remembers how the Joker killed Sarah Gordon during No Man's Land and it was pretty shocking at the moment.
Commander Steel, Arsenal, kid Devil, Poison Ivy, Lagoon Boy, Tattooed Man those were just a few. He also framed Booster and Harley for the deaths
So nobody who will be missed.
Thanks for the update, one more thing if people want to read this they only need Heroes in Crisis am right?
Wally is the best flash, which is why the dipshit batfags who run DC have to ruin him.
Legacy threatens the Bat.
They fucked up Cass pretty hard at the end of the last continuity by just turning her into extra evil Lady shiva.
I mean we already watched Wally commit suicide. The watch is over.
That was the last continuity though. And Snyder funnily enough fixed her for the most part right before the reboot. Right now she’s not in a amazing place, but it’s not bad either.
Who thought this was a good idea?
DC. They have a very particular idea of "hero".
>....Except his kids were fine after the Zolomon thing
They weren't fine, they cameback just to be dying slowly to then get erased.
>and he had a plan to bring back everyone u
He didn't. Where the fuck are you getting this from? He still hasn't finnished the Doomsday clock scripts
>Is it really?
Yeah.
>And it really didn't seem like any of the heroes there were getting better.
>relive their trauma(Lagoon Boy).
Lagoon boy was working through his trauma with sanctuary. Lagoon boy is already living with the memory of being shot and all the VR is doing is externalizing while helping him analyze his feelings of the trauma.
Wally cured his kids you idiot, just like he did when Bart's powers were killing him.
>poison ivy
>nobody
That particular idea being "anyone but Wally West" it seems.
Dont worry. Five years and they will say: n-no guys he was actually p-possessed
>Wally cured his kids
And then what happened? Johns erased them, but not before killing barry's mom.
Well, DC is literally the only capeshit universe with heroes anyway.
How does making hero suffering and overcome the loss equal to make him a fucking mass murderer? Johns made Wally more interesting and complex character at this point and then brought back Barry, kids and everyone else.
Enjoy Didio trash, ungrateful faggots.
He's not a mass murderer.
You do realize Johns did not make Flashpoint to erase anyone, right? That wasn't his decision. Flashpoint was originally supposed to be the launch point for Johns' plan of creating a reverse Flash family to go into all out war against The Flash family, also Abra Kadabra would be involved.
His plans got siderailed by the New 52. Johns didn't turn Iris into Impulse and bring Max back with the intention of NOT using them. There's a reason he dropped The Flash book for the New 52 when, prior to that, he said he was going to be on it for years to come. They ruined his ideas with the reboot.
He is responsible for bringing Barry back which is what allowed DC to do what they did, but even then it's not like they wouldn't bring Barry back if he said no. They would just have had EVS ghostwrite it with someone else.
>then brought back Barry
That was Morrison, under Didio, what johns did was killing his mom and then getting rid of Wally.
Considering he's using time travel to commit suicide instead of stop himself he really is.
>forgetting that she literally regrew herself anyways cause I guess shes a fucking avatar of the green now
He can't do that, it's a classic paradox.
Getting rid of the cause erases the effect.
He literally just time traveled to tell himself what to do before he kills himself. You can't pull that shit.
That's a stable time loop.
>You do realize Johns did not make Flashpoint to erase anyone, right? That wasn't his decision. Flashpoint was originally supposed to be the launch point for Johns' plan of creating a reverse Flash family to go into all out war against The Flash family, also Abra Kadabra would be involved.
It's been years, and retards still believe the shit Johns say in interviews to hype his next shit by talking about how important they will be in farther away future shit, remember how captain cold was supposed to matter in darkseid war? It doesn't matter what idea he had before Warner asked him to use it as a reboot, the only thing that matters is that he AGREED to do it and gadly went with the reboot as his ideas got more importance and that would lead to bigger royalty checks
>His plans got siderailed by the New 52.
New 52, the universe he helped to shape
Johns didn't turn Iris into Impulse and bring Max back with the intention of NOT using them. There's a reason he dropped The Flash book for the New 52 when, prior to that, he said he was going to be on it for years to come. They ruined his ideas with the reboot.
His ideas were in the reboot, he put fucking cyborg in the JL
The story about his return was Johns, Barry's revival in FC was superfluous and almosy entirely ignored.
Btw, he represented hope in FC and was characterized as a quitter by Johns in the return story.
You really don't understand the comic industry if you can't understand that a writer will have plans set, have things plotted out, and then have the carpet pulled from underneath them.
If Johns' plan truly was just to bring back Barry and kill and erase The Flash family then he wouldn't have done half the things he did in Rebirth. His promises fell through but certainly not by his own design.
If your point is that Johns should've just quit DC over it then whatever. That doesn't have anything to do with what we're arguing about. Johns had a plan, editorial rebooted shit which ruined his plan. Simple as that.
And yeah, sure, he put Cyborg in the JL. What does that matter? That has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Johns stopped writing The Flash because he COULDN'T put his plans in. He kept writing GL because he could. Do you understand this basic shit?
I can't believe someone is stupid enough to think Johns, the guy who wrote the best Wally West Flash comics, hates Wally West and did everything in his power to ruin him.
Like how the fuck can you read DC Universe Rebirth and think Johns isn't in love with the character? How bitter and pathetic and heartless are you?
No it isn't. You can't time travel to the future to get directions for yourself about things you already did, so that you do them so you can tell yourself in the past how to do them. It's a logical paradox the other way.
Sure Geoff. Keep telling yourself that
>laughs in the mcu
Maybe you are right. There have surely been heroic christian democrats in history.
>have things plotted out
Johns doesn't do plotting. He had ideas, he is pretty open about his ideas and trying to get them out there to try to create some hype, how is that war of the seven seas coming out? Cold's big pay out? Lex sister working for Darkseid? what about krypto vs a fucking cat?. It's not plotting, just like a "how would you fix the MCU"
threads are not actual plotting but ramblings
I didn't say he hates wally, i'm saying that the guy that is a fanboy of superman turned superboy into a killer, he doesn't has any artistic integrity and will do anything for a pay check, he was asked to get rid of wally and did it without problems since it meant his Barry would be the only viable flash, and that means royalties. Johns is a whore and an imbecile.
>DC Universe Rebirth and think Johns isn't in love with the character? How bitter and pathetic and heartless are you?
Why it doesn't surpraise me that this comes from a comfyfag, let me guess, your eyes teared out when they hugged? Now if you reveal yourself as a HEATFAG and you happen to dislike batman you will be the perfect Johnsfag.
Bruh are you seriously getting onto people for liking the hug scene?
Chill the hell out, man.
mcu doesn't have any heroes, mate. Tony and Hulk killed thousands of innocent people. And others are all murderers.
Someone post that one image here he is being racist.
[Now all you racist.. shut your damn mouth and understand..
Just because I told you to post that, doesn't mean I didn't like Wally West. That nigga Wally just missed his.
#DrainTheSwamp]
Comfyfags don't "like things", they get emotional support from capeshit, they may have read the shittiest and more irrational thing and they will like it as long as superman hugs a kid at some point, see Doomsday Clock.
Even from a purely narrative perspective DC Universe Rebirth was a very good character study and Focus for Wally. Obviously with some other shit thrown in to set up other comics but if you needed to show someone one single comic to understand who Wally West was you probably show them that comic.
I also don't think a comic should be criticized for having an effective, emotional, climactic moment. Maybe it didn't mean anything to you but I'm a big ol Wallyfag and it's one of my favorite Flash moments.
>Even from a purely narrative perspective DC Universe Rebirth was a very good character study
You are getting pathetic. The only reason people liked it was that they were hyped and eat up the shit from interviews, it was a mediocre comic after the terrible Darkseid War.
What's with you and taking out tiny bits of a post and screaming at it like a baby and ignoring the rest of the post?
What?
Don't tell she's the new Swamp Thing.
>No it isn't
Yeah it is. Have you never seen Bill and Ted?
Minus won.
I can either type
'That isnt as straight forward as you know it'
or
' YOU KNOW DAMN WELL YOU WATCHED SLIDERS!'
In Every Body loves Ivy, She took over the world throught love powder; So yes She has access to the GREEN according to KING.
That is only successful from the point of getting guidance from your "*Higher Self". (*That who is outside of time as we have come to accept and know it. Like a Guardian Angel but is yourself in your highest form.. look it up.)
Or you can live the eternal multidimensional existence.
Comic book science is like comic book spirituality.
These guys who are writing the books didnt grow up with the internet. They didnt have social networks or social media. They couldnt talk to the other side of the world in a form of ''instant transmission''.. and I WAS born in 1985.
YOu_u may begin the banning process..
Now-_-
Bill and Ted is a fun movie but I don't get how that argument works out. If your hang up is time travel paradoxes then they're already ignoring that.
I like killer Wally.
They went to the future to learn how to actually play their instruments because in the future, their music created world peace, remember?
>So yes She has access to the GREEN according to KING.
She always did, Any plant thing does.
Cope little zack. Your heroes are finished
Obviously. Dc fans like their villanious heroes
So do marvel. But in reverse.
I agree. In a certain sense marvel has villains more heroic than dc heroes. I mean look at doom
Yes. That's a time travel paradox. They also never actually knew Rufus' name and only knew it because of their time travelling selves. Same thing happened in back to the future.
Just because a paradox is common doesn't mean it's not a paradox. And once you're okay with using a paradox you fall into Wally being responsible for all the deaths.
It's easier to waive the paradox for some fun, one off, movie shenanigans. Not for mass murder and abusing time travel to vindicate yourself without actually stopping the mass killing.
Marvel does reformed criminals becoming heroes better than DC, I think. A lot of the Avengers and other heroes were bad guys at one point.
DC just pretends that their villains did nothing wrong, justify them and pretend that they are heroes.
The villains in DC who WOULD work as anti-heroes or reformed villains never get the chance while the villains who DON'T work as anti-heroes are always the ones who the writers try to justify.
DC also has a weird tendency to turn their heroes into villains. Hal Jordan into Parallax, Superman and company in Injustice(not sure if it counts because its an AU), evil Teen Titans from the future and Titans members getting turned into the Batman Who Laughs lackeys in the upcoming months.
Wally future self telling him what he needs to do is a stable time loop.
Wally cannot go back in time to stop himself from accidentally killing those people because doing would erase the need to time travel back to stop himself from accidentally killing those people.
Marvel can't really do what DC does because their heroes are already kind of shitty assholes half the time so them "going bad" isn't really a big step. There's a couple of exceptions but on the whole they're a lot less pristine. Which has always been Marvel's draw, anyhow.
DC's extremes make reforming their villains rough, as well. They're all so very bad. Topically, the only hero with readily redeemable villains is The Flash. Pied Piper and Chunk are obvious examples and The Rogues have all had their dalliances with being heroes for a time before falling back into bad habits.
Explain where Wally originated the idea to go get the rose. He is relying on himself from the future to already know how to do it. The information forms out of nowhere. That's a paradox. He changes history via travelling forward in time then travelling backwards with new information gained from the future.
His future self could've just said "go move yourself a few miles away before you go psycho" and it'd be the exact same situation you're arguing for makes sense.
Marvel’s got a pretty good deal going on, thugs can become heroes and heroes can go psycho, and it feels balanced enough because being a Marvel Hero already means being in the grey
This. Also only few of the second team of the avengers were former criminals: the twins, black widow and hawkeye. For example no one of the og had a troubled past ( hulk is just his own different case)
Also the fact that the dc heroes seem totally cool with harley queen pretending not to be a killer psycho anymore
>not liking based Superboy Prime
Cereal Lord is most definitely an uncreative hack and yes, his impetus to not merely line his pockets but not make his shitty canon THE canon not only ruined the DC Animated movies, but negatively impacted the DCW, the DC cinematic films and even the initial run of DC Universe shows, but your god is an even bigger imbecile who was a worse and more impactfully harmful influence on DC with MoS, BvS and Justice League.
Superboy Prime was likable until he became a mass murderer and a meme.
DC(or Wolfman)tried something similar with Deathstroke back in the day but eventually they wised up and stopped making excuses for him. Hopefully something similar will happen with Harley Quinn.
Deathstroke didnt sell. Hq does
>Batman has never been paranoid
>what is War Games
>what is the OMAC project
>what is Tower of Babel
That's not the point, but to point out anyone claiming Johns isn't an edgefag is retarded
>His future self could've just said "go move yourself a few miles away before you go psycho"
Which would negate the need to travel in time. The accidental killings have to happen for the need for time travel.
There is no need to time travel. He's just using it to do other things he feels like abusing time travel for, but to do them he creates a time travel paradox in issue 8.
If you're going to fuck things up and create a paradox you might as well actually save all the innocent people your psycho ass got killed.
Like he could've killed everyone and NOT time traveled. There's no necessity like someone else time traveling to fuck things up or something.
T.casuals
Tell me brainlet, do you know what paranoid means? In none of those comics he is "paranoid".
He had no say in the animated films you dipshit, DC literally told writers to make their Nu52 stuff easy to adapt to the screen and literally only 3 of the films are based of his stuff Flashpoint Paradox, War and Throne of Atlantis everything else is an adaption of someone else’s work
>He had no say in the animated films
He was the CCO you absolute retard, he was a producer of all those movies. And he got his shit adapted even before.
He should hang out with Parallax Hal and Superboy Prime.
How many people did Barry kill by trying to bring back pre-Infinite Crisis DCU?
>it wasn't really wally's, he was infected by a speedforce virus created by Alan Moore
She was 13 years old by earth standards but totally an adult on her own planet, officer.
Hal tried to rewrite time, killed a shitload of people, and fucked up an alien world. John blew up a planet, then left an earth city stranded on Oa. Kyle enslaved an entire world and forced everyone to play nice and never hurt anyone or anything. Guy punched Batman.
Johns is the one that brought Barry back. Leading to a problem with two guys named Flash that wore mostly the same costume, which would make DC eventually get rid of one of them at some point.
Dr.M killed most or changed relationships said doomsdayclock.
And Pandora merged realties into one.
Meanwhile Batman automatically hates all Lanterns and Kryptonians. Speedsters are cool with him for some reason.
Didio demaned Barry be brought back. Johns and Morrison prefer Wally.
Johns already invented a negative speed force powered by Zoom, it's not that out there a concept
Who’s the idiot that did the Sage Force and Strength Force?
Do you not understand how casualty works? If he stops the killing then there is no reason to travel back in time.
>Johns is the one that brought Barry back
No that was Morrison in Final Crisis.
Johns agreed to write the Flash Rebirth book pitched to Didio by Ethan Van Sciver in exchange for considerations for Wally West that Dido then refused AFTER Johns wrote the thing.
Still makes more sense than a Slow force
Don't worry, in three years everybody will have forgotten it and welcomed Wally back into their lives. Wally is part of The Flash's status quo, after all.