X-men Psylocke

The problem with her being her real self is......Marvel does not do anything with it. Would have been a great chance to explore themes about identity, body dismorphia, could even do a race / white privilege story if the writer knew what he/she was doing. But no, to my knowledge Betsy has had zero adjustment problems.

Then again with Marvel’s sliding timescale Betsy probably spent just one month in Kwannon’s body.

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>I get that boomer fans of Excalibur

Huh? Betsy had nothing to do with Excalibur, besides a brief appearance and being a member in an alternative timeline.

>about identity, body dismorphia, could even do a race / white privilege story
NO.

>a great chance to explore themes about identity, body dismorphia, could even do a race / white privilege story

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Remove thyself and thy shitty bait from this board immediately.

bump for interest.

>Then again with Marvel’s sliding timescale Betsy probably spent just one month in Kwannon’s body.
Good question, how long in Story has she been in a Japanese body, a couple of years?

I would question what was even the point of returning her to her old body, its been like 30 years, the people who got into comics after she became Japanese would be confused, hell Im sure some didn't even knew, and is hard to believe someone was yearning for the good old times when Psylocke was British.

>how long in Story has she been in a Japanese body, a couple of years?
General rule is 4.5 years real time represents approximately 1 year marvel time although that formula doesn't always work.

The body swap back then felt part of a long-form mystery rooted in a whole universe's storytelling, so even if it was fapbait you'd find yourself reading it to find out what was up with it, Kwannon, the memories etc. It's been literal decades since Kwannon and Betsy merged into a single consciousness too, so it's not like the story required it.
What in my opinion makes the recent swap stupid is that it's been a core aspect of Psylocke as a character, hell it's been THE main thing about her characterization and suprisingly coherent in an age where every new writer erases everything that came before, that she doesn't feel uneasy with her body anymore and has accepted it as her REAL, own body over multiple storylines involving Kwannon and villains offering her the possibility to go back to British Betsy.
Claremont had her faced with the choice again the end of New Exiles in like 2004, she decided to stay Japanese.
Fraction did the same in his Uncanny X-men in 2009, she decided to stay Japanese.
Yost (I think) did a mini next year with the same choice again, she decided to stay Japanese.
Remender in UXF once again had her brother give the choice again, she decided to stay Japanese.
Dogfucker in UXF v2 finally had her confronted with the choice again, she decided to stay Japanese.
So it felt like mockery to have Rosenberg undo all of that having Betsy say shit like "I finally feel like myself again in my own body and not one that was extraneous and imposed to me" because even if you didn't know it was mandated because of IRL fake outrage, it legitimately undid over a decade of consistent characterization.

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We do know exactly what happened. His mind is in the Astral plain. His body technically doesn’t exist anymore, at least not as it was, because Xavier basically used it as raw material to create his current body hence why he only has Xavier’s powers. It was explained in the same arc it happened

Fantomex exists independently of Xavier this was stated, so no we don't know how it happened.

They basically traded places in the Astral Plain. Fantomex has to remain behind so that Xavier could take his place. Only way it would need explanation is if Fantomex suddenly pops up in the real world with no explanation

>So it felt like mockery to have Rosenberg
It wasn't Rosenberg it was Jim Zub trash writer that didn't know the character despite claiming to like her.

My thoughts exactly. The costume is what people really care about.

>They basically traded places in the Astral Plain. Fantomex has to remain behind so that Xavier could take his place.
They basically didn't this is your head cannon.
>Fantomex suddenly pops up in the real world with no explanation
This is exactly what has happened it was stated Fantomex independently exists in the real world.

They could do something dun with it.
Kill off the paki that wields Excalibur since Ms Marvel stole her only gimmick and let Betsy wield it.

No Asian, no care.

In fact, no Asian in a blue thong swimsuit, no care.

Sure her current costume is shit but that would feel kinda insulting that they think that would make all the difference especially when they’re noticeably trying to separate anything Asian from her to the point that she’s now using a psychic European style sword and shield rather than her iconic katana and hasn’t been very ninjalike in her fighting. Putting her in that costume would just feel like them being completely blind to why a negative reaction to this change exists

Go back and read Soule’s Astonishing, that’s literally what happened. If they’ve stated otherwise since, please do tell where so that I can be informed as I don’t recall anywhere with that being mentioned since then

As much as I love Jim Lee Psylocke, it's hard to get mad about this since it'll be undone in less than three years' time.

>Soule’s Astonishing
It's right there, please read more carefully. I'm not prepared to continue an interaction with someone claiming black is white because it leads nowhere.

Boring and more generic. Psylocke is known to be that "hot asian girl with purple hair in a bare-arms bare-legs skinsuit with pink energy beams on her knuckles"-character.

Its that one asian character asians actually liked in Marvel stuff and now you made her so boring nobody likes her.

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Don't care about the body, care about the costume

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Don't retcon her back to her original body. Just retcon is so she was always Asian.

If you're doing it to appeal to Twitter dykes, the last thing we need is yet another caucasian X-Woman.

Yes that's not the entirety of the Fantomex issue you need to read further on.

I proved you wrong, I used actual proof

Unless you have a scan, just admit you were wrong

It's not a bad idea in principle, but I feel like in order for it to be effective, we would have had to have seen Betsy actually suffering from racism whilst in her borrowed body, and I can't recall a single moment of that ever having been included in any scene with her. It would come across as kind of ham-handed. Which doesn't invalidate your point, but does go to the fact that poor writing pre-dating this recent development precludes telling the sort of good story you suggest.

These pages are Fantomex’s most recent appearance. It takes place in the Astral Plane

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Evidence to back up my claim. You wanna talk about what’s in black and white, supply yours

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It feels completely stupid and unnecessary. And the execution was so terrible. Especially when they did it in a shitty and super random third string return of wolverine mini of all places. It's such a shit show. They've completely failed to do ANYTHING substantial with it since it happened, and now they've dragged fucking Kwannon back to the main book just to make it more convoluted and dumb. It's like it was someone's editorial mandate that finally got OK'd by the higher ups and literally everybody on the ground level hates it.

Evidence to back up my claim: Comes from Astonishing X-Men #12 final words to Gambit, what does he say? Gambit is not a psychic he's a thief so therefore he would hardly be referring to finding Fantomex on the Astral Plane, now would he? Checkmate.
youtube.com/watch?v=Et1b_qxxqjI

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>Mongul and Professor X both love gifting The Elder Scrolls IV
Why is that?

God complex.

the meta-narrative of psylocke is fascinating, I thought about making my own version of her (a psychic who gets trapped in a body that's not her own) to explore the whole identity thing, cause that could be a whole series itself.

I can dig it. If this give us plenty of both english psychic Betsy and japanese ninja Kwannon, I'll be happy.

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Would’ve been better if Jean and Emma weren’t running around. You’ve now got three really powerful psyches in the X-men who are all white women. And we haven’t included the cuckoos, Rachel etc.

That's just Xavier sending Gambit on a wild goose chase because he's a dick

Betsy’s thing is that she’s a ninja and has been for 30 years. It’s so stupid to take that away

I like the costume in OP. It alludes to her original without looking gaudy and purple is my favourite color. There's maybe a few people that drew them looking any different so I don't see people's problem other than yellow fever.

This is a good point though. The few times I've seen a writer try to attempt this was Xavin in Runaways but Whedon ended that pretty quick because he wanted perfect lesbians.

Annoyed because they only did it to appease SJWs, amused because they inadvertently got rid of one of the only popular Asian X-Men as a result.

now she looks like a nobody

MCU will ignore it, cast Psylocke with an asian/half-asian, and none of this will matter.

>Xavier controlled and dominated by the Shadow King would have totally no reason to lie to them about what really happened to Fantomex. Yes totally no reason.
The fucking Shadow King.

This.

I prefer Chris Bachalo.

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She lost all uniqueness but no one cares because no one likes Psylocke

>Authentic Bong accent
>No stranger to sword fighting stunts
>Zoomer men spend gallons worshipping her
>Capeshit experience

Here’s your MCU Psylocke bros.

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Nah hard pass.

he hasn't read anything with her since the 80s
goddamnit
and Leah Williams can't read anything not posted on tumblr

No race swapping. There is an air of finality to this one that wasn’t there previously.

I think next best thing is a storyline where Betsy acknowledges what happened to her and accepts the experience of being Kwannon as part of who she is. Which leads to her using the old psychic knives (the current sword and shield looks crap) and hopefully the old costume.

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She’s supposed to be Captain Britain’s twin sister.

Mystery in Madripoor #4 was the worst thing I've read in a long time I would even rate Jason Aaron above that trash.

>There is an air of finality to this one that wasn’t there previously.
That's what scares me the most I'm hoping on some kind of based Liefeld or some such to come along and redo what Zub has undone.

>There is an air of finality to this one that wasn’t there previously.

Just like every time people thought the notion of returning to her old body was buried for good.

Retcon Captain Britain out of existence and you won't have this problem. Nobody cares about Captain Britain.

>it was a product of 90ism and should be allowed to remain

No.

>she decided to stay Japanese
>she decided to stay Japanese
>she decided to stay Japanese
>she decided to stay Japanese
>she decided to stay Japanese
Characters become whatever the writer or company wants. That's why Peter Parker makes deals with the Devil, Daredevil becomes scared, and Angel gets grimderp metal wings. The character has no agency. Betsy didn't decide anything.

>Betsy’s thing is that she’s a ninja

Betsy's been a lot of things. An ESPer, Captain Britain, blind, Mojo's pet, a blonde, hot for Cypher...

You shouldn't have to retcon anything. Her story isn't confusing.

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And the only thing that ever caught on was ninja.

I'm more bothered by the fact that they gave her telekinesis all those years ago. Psylocke was at her best when she was an ass-kicking ninja with mind-reading and illusion abilities.

This is objectively no true

Yes it was. Before the swap she was a second string Jean Gray. And now she's back to that.

No it wasn't. Jean wasn't nearly as interesting or useful as old Psylocke was.

>she was a second string Jean Gray
No this isn't true read Outback and before, she had her own style of telepathy different from Jean Grey, she was more of an illusionist type. Although this is not to say she shouldn't be a telepathic telekinetic ninja which is in fact the patrician's choice for Betsy.

Wtf you talking 'bout? 90's was best X-Men decade.

Change twin sister to either adopted, Step or half sister. Everything works the same except they have different birthdays and there would be a year or two's age difference..

You really think after twenty years of her iconic form being all the fans of her being asian aren't going to work against this? Worse case scenario if this was cebulski having a over reactionary panic over people razzing him over his old pen name we just need to wait for somebody else to take charge.

And then those same SJWs accused them of whitewashing an asian character.

what is marvel's obsession with taking away leotards and other get ups? cinema, comics, video games, even mobile versions are effected. it's a revival of regressive cancerous prudish moralism that is being shared across multiple gaming, comic, and movie corporations and businesses. it's almost like there are fat cat suits trying to condition our society or something.

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And all of those things didn’t last at all. Don’t even try to compare that with something that she’s been for 30 years

Left wing neo-puritanism
It's not exclusive to marvel, people have just decided that female sexual expression makes them feel uncomfortable and is therefore bad.

I hope so. I can't see this sticking. The Asian body and blue swimsuit are too iconic for her. But the question is how long this get's drug out. It could very well last six years like the Bendis time dispaplaced O5 team. or even more. If it was just some people pushing for a britlocke for waifu reasons it''ll probably get reversed on the sooner side while if it was Cebuldki freaking out over his pen name(which has nothing to do directly with Psylocke. I don't think he even wrote her once under "Akira Yoshida") we might have to wait until he's gone.

I don't see Kwannon replacing Betsy as Psylocke working for fans of Kwannon, asian Betsy, or Brit Betsy. Betsy fans regardless are going to pissed when she gets fucked over so Kwannon can steal the Psylocke name and I'm pretty sure Kwannon fans(like all five of them) don't want her to become a goody two shoes.

They're not interested in downplaying the change by keeping Betsy in the blue leotard but giving her a bad looking costume with knightly psychic weapons instead of her knives and katannas. Fuck they've got Kwannon wearing a variant on Betsy's leotard in purple with pantyhose

Sooner or Later Betsy and Kwannon are either going to be remerged or Betsy will somehow end up in possession of the body. Or they'll at least have to downplay the change and make Betsy more of weaboo.

There's zero reason to make her naturally Asian though.

Better idea. STOP BEING STUPID. British telepath who had her brain put in a ninja body isn't complicated. When did this become complicated? This never used to be hard. You're all fucking morons.

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I actually agree. British telepath girl being body swapped and ending up gaining Ninja skills and Psychic energy bades is perfectly good character and origin story.

I'm just pointing out if Cebulski caused this because he was scared of people going cultural appropriation bullshit or whatever over his Akira Yoshida pen name, that retconning her asian would be better choice than trying to either redefine Betsy or turn Kwannon into a new Psylocke or whatever they think they're doing.

This came out today btw.
Stop talking out of your ass.

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>I'm just pointing out if Cebulski caused this because he was scared of people going cultural appropriation bullshit or whatever
I've said this many times, chose to believe your own 'canon' on it. Zub stated it was his original idea he put it to the editorial board who had some questions but ultimately ok'd it.

Why not just give your actual Asian characters some attention then. It's not like marvel has a shortage of them. X-men is loaded with Japanese girls.

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Look I don't know which it is if it was Zub pushing his british waifu fetish though, as is the official story, or Shogun having freak out as rumored. And only care who's responsible as far as it matters towards this getting reversed Either way I want Asian Betsy back. The former probably means it will be undone on the sooner side, and we might have to wait longer if it's the later.

I can guarantee you that was what Zub definitely stated at least.

where are the leotards in any of the movies, then?

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Munn wore a leotard for Psylocke. Though she's also a whore and didn't really get any lines or a lot to do.

gross

Marvel UK Fans care.

They only jack it to 2000 ad.

In that case it'll probably be undone sooner. What the fuck is this idiots position? Writer? Editor? How much clout does he have?

Jim Zub? He's a freelance writer.

>wasn't even a regular who cocked this mess
Fucking christ

Exactly.

That's all? And what makes people think this'll stick unlike the last time she got her brit body back?

Fuck I'm wondering if they only agreed to this so it would be the brit body getting it on with blob.

Asian chick with obese white dude would have hit a bit too close to home.

Hahaha I get what you're saying.

Doesn't really matter to me. They look substantially the same, and there are plenty of old Psylocke stories around I haven't read.

>Different hair color
>Different hair volume
>Different Eye color
>Different Eye shape
>Different facial structure
>Different skin tone
>Different esthetic in costume type
>Different type of weapon usage
>Substantially the same
Only thing that’s remotely the same is her power signature

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bring back Motormouth & Killpower

Will this be the most patrician relationship in the X-men?

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I think it's stupid to send her back to being white. I understand why they did it, what with Shogun Cebulski's back ground, but if you were going to deal with the race thing it would have been better to make her always Asian instead of turning her into her much less interesting and far, far shittier looking white version. Seriously there are no good white Psylocke designs. At the end of the day though Psylocke as a character has only ever been interesting during X-force so ultimately it's not a big deal but it's still just kind of dumb to me. I doubt anyone will write any interesting stories dealing with the fact that Betsy spent like what, a decade or so in-universe living in an Asian woman's body. At best maybe a joke about Betsy being a weaboo like Wolverine.

It will be dropped as soon as this mess of an event ends.

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no

Dark Angel, Mys-tech and Shadow Riders.

I started thinking about what a mixed Anglo-Japanese Betsy might be like, then ended up writing a whole AU just for it. Might turn it into its own story

Would condone if she becomes hot Asian leotard ninja one flick later.

We already had a half white Psylocke.

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They'll probably make her asian again sooner or later.

Yes but how much sooner vs how much later is really the question. We can joke all we want about how nothing changes and deaths don't matter but that doesn't mean we really want to stick it out till shit gets sorted either.

It's been a long fucking time since we had a proper villain Loki. Though maybe something happened last time I checked. A version of him has sort of shown up to harass the current Loki sometimes, but morally dubious leaning on good guy Loki is the "main" version of Loki in Marvel right now. Point is, Kid Loki's Journey Into Mystery run from way back when, and perhaps even further back with its origins in Loki going all Sandman, continues to cast a long fucking shadow over everything Loki is now in the comics. It's passed the point where it's just some fad, it's a whole sweeping section of Loki's history in marvel comic's now. Something built up and extended by multiple writers through many many different events and permutations. Most of this is built upon readers and writers preferring the status quo we have now to the one we had previously.

When we get down to it, is Betsy going back to being Asian really a big enough deal for enough of the readership or writers that it'll ever actually happen? It might happen some day with Loki. But can you imagine a solicitation pushing that as the Big Reason to read the next comic she'll show up in? Just how different will the entire industry and everything around it have to be for that to happen? Maybe someone will do it on the sly when no one's paying attention, but why? Is it likely some writer is going to care enough to try and make it happen? How much will her being a British aristocrat transferred into a Japanese woman's body ever be a thing any writer actually wants to be a part of their story?

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See the key difference with those examples is they're at least doing something with Non Evil Loki. Whitelocke will be written exactly the same as she was before to the point where there was absolutely zero reason to even do it at all except for Zubb wanting it too and then fucking off with his own nostalgia wank. It didn't even happen in a Psylocke story it was in some shitty wolverine tie in event. If it happened in Remender's run or any of the other times where it would have made sense and been one of her stories, well I imagine it might still ruffle some feathers but it would at least be an easier pill to swallow.

What we got wasn't taking the character in a new direction, what we got was some fuckwit forcing his own nostalgia regardless of what anyone else wanted.

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Loki still looks likes for Loki. Most of Betsy's fans know and like her as an asian in a blue leotard with psychic knives and katanas, not a brit in this pink suit with a knightly sword and shield. She had her asian body and look for close to thirty years. You think that all the people who fell in love with that look are just going to let it go? She doesn't look anything like what she's suppose to. If they were downplaying the change and just drawing her with different facial features and kept her costume powers look the same maybe it would pass. But instead they're accentuating the difference.

See that's also something of the problem. I'm speaking as an outsider to the character here, so I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes when it comes to them liking Asian Psylocke or whatever. Regardless of what those reasons might be either.

But from my outsider perspective I don't think her being a white girl in an asian woman's body has matter to most readers in a long ass time. Her being white again is a thing you can easily pull off because of that, and also because it scores you some brownie points with the few people who both know what the fuck happened and think it's racist or something. Which means it's unlikely to be changed back because most writers wouldn't have cared if she was white or asian because it never mattered to most readers and was never a major part of most of her appearances. It was just a weird artifact for readers who weren't fans of the character.

Not sure if people recall Abnder Jenkins, Mach-V and so on. If you don't recall him being the Beetle or in Thunderbolts, you might from Spectacular Foes. Once, during the weirdness of the Nineties, in order to hide his identity from the fuzz, he got turned into a black guy to make the cast more diverse. And it was this whole social commentary thing, he got hassled on the streets, it made things weird with his white girl friend, and so on. Eventually it was undone and it was left behind as just a weird time in the character's history caused by lame attempts to be hip with progressives. I gather this was similar to why Betsy was made Asian too, it just stuck around way longer. But the industry is so different now that "literally turning a character into another race by transferring their mind into another body" isn't the kind of progress check list item it once was. Now you've got make it an AU character or something. Which might be what they eventually do, now that I think about it.

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We knew she isn't really Asian the longest time. It's a great decision to no longer culturally appropriate a culture that never belonged to her in the first place. Tho I am more interested in the state of her mind(s) now that it's brought up again

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but hasn't her leotard also largely been hit by the usual costume changes we've had in recent years? Made less lewd and so on.

Even the pants where better than this shit.

> It's a great decision to no longer culturally appropriate

Shut up. Nobody's "Appropriating" anything. Ninajs where just sexy and cool.

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>But from my outsider perspective I don't think her being a white girl in an asian woman's body has matter to most readers in a long ass time.

Of course it matters. You might as well say Beast being blue and fuzzy doesn't matter. Or Nightcrawler having a tail doesn't matter. It sounds shallow out of context but the physical traits of a character do matter a lot especially when said physical traits have a backstory attached to them.

Yes her being a banana doesn't come up all that often but it being in the background does add to her character. It makes her interesting in a line up. It doesn't have to be the center of every story, nor should it. It's just a little extra that makes her more unique. It has history and flavor. Why would you remove that?

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>It's a great decision to no longer culturally appropriate a culture that never belonged to her in the first place

It's culture of Kwannon, whose body Betsy is inhabiting and whose mind was put on a blender with Betsy at one point, to a point where they shared memories, experiences and skills.

We're talking about trying to completely change a character's iconic look of close to thirty years. Asian Betsy is how she's suppose to look for most people. How long did the Beetle thing last? Not nearly as long. It's not going to take easily. And this supposedly had nothing to do with idiots complaining about Shogun's pen name. As for Psylocke being retonned into always being asian that's a possibility that's been discussed here. It would effectively be the nuclear option to make her asian again. I don't think simply transporting over an Exiles asian Betsy would work anymore than trying to turn Kwannon into the new Psylocke

Nobody cares about cultural appropriation bullshit. And the official word is it's just some idiot's preferences for britlocke waifu. By that same virtue I believe most people prefer Asian Betsy .

Eh Kwannon currently has a variant of the leotard with pantyhose. It's acceptable.

> Implied Lezdom.

>Kwannon and Betsy will never lez out and create a new individual with both their memories

>Betsy didn't decide anything.
When does a character's choice then become their own rather than his or her's or it's writers?

Never.

You have shit taste and you should feel bad about it.

Pretty much and People who denies this don't get out much or doesn't get out enough. people growing up in the 90's will always remember her for being as such Asian Psychic ninja. The video games pretty much cemented her in the main stream audience as such.

This is a edit?

The issue there is that she has a twin brother, who's arguably a more important character than she is.

Normally I’d agree but in this day and age no one really cares about Captain Britain. Psylocke is far more recognizable than her brother and has been for a while. You sure them being half siblings couldn’t work?

Wouldn’t even have to make them half-siblings. You could simply retcon that their mother was Asian especially since the previous body Betsy was in was Eurasian

>to no longer culturally appropriate a culture
You out of sci-fi, you out of fantasy, you out of any medium that I enjoy. This would make me immensely happy.

Better if she split in two

Things we'll never see on MCU

I'd read it.

Only way we’ll never see them is if they never have Psylocke appear. The costume would be changed to probably one of her more recent versions but the Asian body is too iconic and they live their diversity points, so they’d probably just have that she was always Asian/half Asian and not even touch on body swaps