Following my DC issues yesterday and questions about the quality of the art, here is #384 the last issue written by Gardner Fox
He had been one of the original writers in the 1930s and 40s filling it for Bill Finger because of his slow pace. He created the Baterang and Utility Belt.
Julius Schwartz brought him back in 1964 as part of the new look revitalisation, although in my opinion there wasn't much change the designs were still squat and stocky.
In 1968 Fox was among a group of old timer writers and artists that had been working National for decades, since beginning, and getting on in years they wanted to discuss... a pension plan.
And they wanted to do it through... a union.
National fired them all.
Following my DC issues yesterday and questions about the quality of the art...
Charles Hughes
Christopher Gomez
That's fucked up. Eat the rich. That cover looks awesome- Batman looks like a bruiser.
Angel Taylor
The previous thread:
>Inspite of what everyone says, it was Frank Robbins who kick-started the new age of Batman, where Dick leaves for college, and Batman moves out of Wayne manor and starts a detective agency.
Yeah I've seen his byline in some of these issues, was he brought in to replace Gardner?
Have they ever brought back the detective agency? Seems like it would be a neat way to reintroduce some of their gumshoe characters that preceded Batman + give him some extra eyes.
>Kind of making me think of Gil Kane for some reason, but I think Kane was over at Marvel at this time.
His Wikipedia page lists 374 in his bibliography
I knew about the McKeever version of events never heard that Chaykin had also adapted it, I've seen interviews where he was referred cryptically to his morals and people giving him shit for being friends with him :\
I'm not disputing they'd wear suits but they seem to be of an older heavier and 3-piece style
Jayden White
I think Giordano was doing the covers at this point
Even though the interior art of most issues was still fairly antiquated, I posted 374 because it had art that was an exception and I felt that's where things began changing for Batman, the covers had picked up quite a bit
Dylan Collins
erm sorry, Infantino
Mason Foster
William Jones
Cameron Allen
Christian Davis
Christopher Fisher
Chase Russell
Justin Garcia
Colton Nelson
Landon Morris
Bentley Garcia
>Yeah I've seen his byline in some of these issues, was he brought in to replace Gardner?
Actually checking the comicbookdb his writing credits go back to 378
Christian Baker
Carter Murphy
and the comicdb says this by Irving Novick
I guess I went by Infantio because of his cover credit that I saw on 371 :\
Jack Howard
Nathaniel Young
Jason Morgan
Jason Gonzalez
Ryan Rodriguez
Easton Ward
Oliver Richardson
Aiden Thompson
Jonathan Hughes
Gabriel Lopez
I like Gil Kanes Batgirl
Anthony Adams
Nicholas Richardson
Noah Robinson
Eli Perry
And so it goes.
What should I look at next for charting the development of Batman? Is there anything from the Batman comics people would suggest, mostly just been looking through Detective as their downloads complete
Some of the issues have digital recoloring which doesn't look right imho :\
Charles Baker
>Barbara things a guy that has only ever checkedout old newspapers is two-timing her
N-Nani?! Batgirl is Yandere!?
Austin Mitchell
>I knew about the McKeever version of events never heard that Chaykin had also adapted it, I've seen interviews where he was referred cryptically to his morals and people giving him shit for being friends with him :\
Yeah, he adapted it last year. I forget which issue it was in though.
Jack Mitchell
The McKeever comic was also last year
Isaiah Roberts
The issue with the Archie Goodwin stand-in talking about McKeever was out in 2016, though.
The quibble I had with it is that the Goodwin stand-in was saying it happened during his time as EIC of Not-Marvel, but in real life Goodwin was EIC from 1976 to 1977. But then I found Robert Stanley Martin's blog at rsmwriter.blogspot.com
where Martin said:
>Oh, I see. This is about Kane. There's not a lot that's on the record. People for the most part aren't willing to discuss it for public consumption. They'll at most obliquely refer to it, such as Howard Chaykin with negative references to Kane's "ethics," or Jim Shooter describing theft incidents involving "an artist who shall remain nameless," or Al Milgrom explaining Kane's 1982 blackballing at Marvel as being due to his not being qualified as a human being to work there. But off the record, people with direct knowledge of the situation get pretty pointed when discussing him and his conduct. When I say it was "well known," I mean it was "well known" to people who were there at the time. If you don't want to accept that, I understand. I'm not big on anonymously sourced statements myself.
The 1982 date makes more sense because if you look at Kane's bibliography on wiki, it cuts off after 1983, for the Marvel Fanfare issues that had the Jungle Book adaptation. Since Marvel Fanfare is like an inventory book that story might've been done earlier, or been his last commitment before the banning. So maybe McKeever exaggerated or misremembered, or Archie Goodwin made a mistake and was thinking of when he was editor of the Epic line (which would've been in the 80's).
That said, Gil Kane did do two things for Marvel after 1983: the lead story for Web of Spider-Man Annual #6, and a few pages for Marvel Heroes and Legends in 1997. I don't know what the story on how he was allowed to do them, maybe special circumstances or something.
Xavier Hernandez
oh 2016 okay my mistake
Presumably McKeever heard the story from Goodwin
Yeah it cuts at 1983 as I said in the previous thread
If he was working as a contract or work-for-hire he might not have been allowed in the building, didn't McKeevers comic make a big deal about them doing that?
Elijah Garcia
Since I cant figure out what to do next or what Batman # to do I'm just gonna go with DC 385
This is an early Neal Adams cover, Batmans ears and cape are still short, and the body is squat and rounded rather than tall and lean
Nice looking Batgirl too
Two other old timers Bob Kanigher and Bob Brown who must not have been part of the organising effort write and illustrate this
Brown was also the illustrator for Daredevil in between the Gene Colon and Frank Miller runs
By the mid-1970s Brown seemed to have a hard time working in the changing industry
>comics historian Mark Evanier recounted that by this point, Brown
>...found his work regarded as "old-fashioned". It wasn't so much that Brown couldn't take a more modern approach to his work as that he just plain didn't understand what that meant. Editors kept showing him the work of new artists, he told me. They'd say, "This is what we want now," but Brown couldn't grasp just what it was he was supposed to learn from the examples, which often struck him as displaying weak anatomy, poor perspective and other fundamental errors. It was almost like they were telling him that, "Kids relate to crude artwork," and he knew it wasn't that.
newsfromme.com
Jason Ortiz
D'OH! THATS IS 389
Brown also replaced Kirby on Challengers of the Unknown after he went back to Marvel
Wyatt Perez
Wyatt White
Isaiah Carter
Dylan Bailey
Jaxson Moore
Wyatt Gonzalez
Wyatt Hall
Blake Richardson
Zachary Thomas
why did everything go green after he was blinded?
Nicholas Powell
Juan Garcia
Leo Clark
>didn't McKeevers comic make a big deal about them doing that?
They started doing that around the time McKeever turned in his last comic for Epic. (Carl Potts stand-in says that it was the last day freelancers were allowed in the building, ) According to wiki his last Marvel/Epic comic was in 1993, so at the time Kane got banned in the 80's, freelancers were still allowed to show up at Marvel's offices.
Kayden Ward
Tyler Clark
yeah and the couple comics he did for them in the 1990s would have been freelance and so wouldn't that mean at that time he wouldn't have been allowed in the building
Owen Barnes
Dylan Carter
Thomas White
Jose Edwards
The 1997 comic probably would've been after the freelancer ban. The Web of Spider-Man Annual was from 1990 (before the overall ban), though. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't allowed in, though.
Carter Jenkins
Aaron Parker
Or had a 'chaperone'
Landon Howard
Jack Ward
Dylan Sanders
Levi Ross
Jaxon Ortiz
John Fisher
Samuel Baker
Ian Brooks
Grayson Phillips
KaneKaneKane!
Why not talk about the punks in editorial like Jim Salicrup who had tables at CreationCon selling stolen art and taking orders for later dealz?
Angel Clark
Cameron Rivera
I didn't know about that, did he get blackballed too?
Babs fixation on boys in this two-parter is... lewd
Chase Jenkins
skipping an add and the last 4 pages are ads too
Lincoln Butler
Okay so any requests or next issue?
Jaxon Price
To be honest folks 386 and 388 are pretty blah, and 387 is a recreation of #27 chemical conspiracy for the 30th anniversary (didn't they do that in the 1990s as well?)
So on to 389 properly this time unless there some alternative suggestions
I really should look through the Batman of this era as well see how the art and stories were changing, so strange that for much of the era DC were still doing 50s type stuff while Marvel was just exploding
Dominic Foster
Looks like at this point they've started to try to distance the comic from the TV show, yet I can't help but read this Batman dialogue in Adam West's voice.
Parker Ward
what do people think of digital recoloring btw?
some of the subtly seems to be gone
Anyway we have another Neal Adams cover and this time he is really looking Neal-ish
Frank Robins and Bob Brown are back for writing and pencils
Lincoln Rivera
Around this time Robin was going off to college and Bruce moved into Gotham city
but you can back even a few issues and they're driving the series batmobile
Landon Hill
Jonathan Ortiz
Matthew White
actually they still are using it here
Nathan Wright
Leo King
Presumably in the original comic that big white blank space had an ad but for the (Showcase?) reprints it is left bare :\
Dylan Wright
Xavier Edwards
Alexander Ortiz
Jayden King
I wonder if Landy From Shanghai was an influence on this
Leo Clark
Connor Carter
Aiden Green
>H-He's giving us -- the EVIL EYE!
Brandon Gray
Wyatt Jenkins
The Batgirl backup story in 389 continues from 388 backup so I will have to post that first :\
Isaiah Gomez
Tyler Anderson
Kayden Sullivan
Anyone else think she likes like Mary Jane when they don't draw her like an old school marm?
Tyler Stewart
Hudson Brooks
the crooks go around dressed exactly like DC characters, ho hum very old fashioned super dickery cover twist kind of story hey?
Lincoln Collins
Jackson Ramirez
Nolan Cox
Nicholas Adams
I like that kooky face the not-superman sports, but it would have been better if it had been in the previous panels. Same goes for the cigar.
Superman with a face like an Edward G. Robinson crook complete with cigar would be great
Nicholas Edwards
Samuel Hall
Alright we are BACK to 389 to conclude this Batgirl story
Cooper Rodriguez
Kayden Reed
Luis Jackson
Benjamin Fisher
William Ward
Oliver Adams
Joseph Allen
Ethan Lee
any suggestions or just keep going?
Henry Lee
Honestly the next couple issues are again pretty blah
390 is about Batmans tailor
391 is about a woman who thinks she is married to Batman
I mean, is this 1955?
Here though 392 has a very nice nourish atmosphere
Adams cover
Robbins and Brown script and pencils
Chase Gomez
and 391 is pretty egregious when in 380 just 11 issues earlier they had bruce faking a marriage!
Anyway see what I mean about the atmosphere and noir look
Elijah Richardson
If you have a problem with digital recoloring check out the MTCDC-NMC torrents from tpb. It has every DC comic until 2010 I think, and there all scans.
Wyatt Rodriguez
Brandon Rogers
I've been using soulseek, cant find them on regular torrent sites and zcultfm is around anymore
whats the link for tpb?
Julian Young
Lucas Turner
Colton Long
Matthew Barnes
Alexander Jenkins
John Ortiz
Charles Wilson
Carson Howard
thepiratebay10.org
No seeders on most of them though.
Check out
the-eye.eu/public/Comics/DC Chronology/ there sorted by year and month published. It's a pain in the ass to download from there but I just got everything from 1935-1989 in just a couple of days. There is also libgen.io
Ryder Perry
Chase Morales
okay thanks
Jeremiah Reed
Lincoln Peterson
Kayden Murphy
Bentley Ramirez
Mason Hill
Jackson Brooks
Brody Turner
Brody Ortiz
Logan Smith
Jordan Jackson
Blake Williams
Zachary Thompson
So I'm gonna do 393 its kinda bluh but it is important for the fact that this is where Dick Grayson goes off to college
One of the major changes to the comics that Frank Robbins was responsible for
Then I'm gonna go Batman 217 cause I have been looking through the folder on what to do from it and it appears to follow on from it with Robin away and Batman now alone
Its an Irv Novick cover
Robbins and Brown back for script and pencil
Oh and I missed this when posting it but apparently the previous issues Batgirl backup was the first appearance of Jason Bard :\
Adam Smith
Thomas Garcia
Daniel Fisher
Matthew Murphy
Owen Reyes
Julian Gutierrez
Isaac Lee
Wyatt Powell
Landon Wright
Robert Phillips
Camden Lee
Elijah Brown
Jacob Thompson
Xavier Lopez
Angel Lopez
Aaron Davis
>tfw no Batgirl date
Jason Nelson
Xavier James
Ian Jones
Jason Long
Brody Murphy
Eli Cooper
Austin Moore
Easton Cox
Here we are finally with a Batman
Neal Adams cover looking exactly like a Neal Adams Batman
Frank Robbins writing, Irving Novick pencils
Jonathan Johnson
And here it is
Robin has moved out and gone to college
When does Bruce move into Gotham City?
Justin Sanders
Kayden Collins
James Fisher
Josiah Morgan
Mason Morgan
Camden Fisher
Ryder Brooks
John Martinez
Aiden Ortiz
James Hall
Colton King
Carter Carter
Christopher Sanders
Joshua Gonzalez
Bentley Carter
Chase Lewis
Parker Harris
William Rogers
Xavier Cooper
Ethan Campbell
Ayden Roberts
Noah Butler
Gabriel Adams
Jose Nelson
Christian Morgan
So it turns out he moved to the City and founded the agency all in one issue
The story continues into DC 394
Adams cover
Robbins and Brown script and pencils
Robert Hernandez
Mason Powell
Carter Ross
Ayden Diaz
Jose Reed
Josiah Johnson
James Rogers
John Williams
Easton Thompson
Connor Wood
Aiden Young
Easton Mitchell
Jace Davis
Isaac Gonzalez
Daniel Reyes
Juan Baker
Liam Thompson
Sebastian Mitchell
Kanes Batman must be on a cut
Jeremiah Ortiz
Benjamin Nelson
Nathaniel Barnes
>like wow dude
Jason Sanders
>ya see kids, all these campus protesting rabble rousers are up to no good
Bentley Brooks
Anthony Lewis
Sebastian Bell
Xavier Wright
Caleb Ward
Okay so I'm gonna take a break to lift some weights and maybe have dinner
Any suggestions? Keep going? Other issues?
Adrian Walker
they got what was coming to them
David Baker
>Denny O'Neill has entered the chat
Returning to my original post, the reason why a lot of the new artists and writers got hired was because of all the old timers that got mass fired
William Butler
Original cover
Which do you think is better Yea Forums?
why do you say that?
Landon Collins
Jack Ortiz
Hudson Baker
Lincoln King
Chase Robinson
Chase Morales
Carson Evans
Aiden Thomas
John Thompson
Christian Thomas
Daniel Sullivan
Michael Garcia
Jayden Brooks
Cameron Sanchez
Isaiah Hill
Henry Morales
Ryder Davis
Christian Morales
Jack Walker
Brayden Davis
Andrew Gray
Nolan Rodriguez
Isaiah Green
Andrew Fisher
Austin Wood
Isaiah Stewart
Gabriel King
Cameron Wilson
Brody Lopez
Wyatt Cruz
Julian Sanchez
Brandon Fisher
Ayden Torres
Ian Richardson
Evan Barnes
ditching the tv series batmobile
Cameron Watson
Carter Sullivan
Asher Torres
Jonathan Gonzalez
Angel Harris
and he ditched it
Brayden Johnson
I'm gonna skip the Batgirl backup and just go to bed
Might be back later to finish or make a new one
Nicholas Robinson
Is this campy Batman reminisceing about of gritty Batman while becoming modern gritty Batman?