*The Russo brothers pull their pants down and shit all over them both.*

Concepts*

It's not a quote, it's an emote.

Or you could see it as Thor finding that everyone has their breaking point, even him. He was left broken because ultimately the problem he had wasn't something he could run at. It was a past failing that first saw most of his people killed and then further halved by the Snap. This wasn't something he could fix, but he tried, as in he cut off Thanos' head even though it was way too late to make much difference. It didn't even make him feel better, clearly.

Everyone gets low sometime, user. Sometimes they need someone to pull them out of their funk. Fortunately Thor found his mommy and she got him to start trying again and hopefully he actually ate that salad.

>It's back to the Ragnarok portrayal, why are you upset?
>Detail how it's different
>Actually, it's justified why it's different, why are you upset?

Reminder that Ragnarok Thor saw his father die, and while he mourned him, he didn't let it sink him into a long time slump, he bounced back to do what needed to be done, and he did it with optimism. Reminder that at the end of Ragnarok, he blew up his home, and while he was sad to see it go, he was forward-thinking enough to be there for his people.

And you're trying to tell me that because certain people with a certain mindset react to tragedy and setbacks by falling into depression, it's consistent with his previous characterization for Thor to? When we've already seen he processes his loss in a completely different way in Ragnarok? It doesn't hold up.

His father dies out of old age which is something completing different

>He was left broken because ultimately the problem he had wasn't something he could run at.
Neither was leading the Asgardians on the refugee vessel after the fall of Asgard, but he assumed the role. You're basically showing your concept of Thor is just as a guy who hits things. That's clearly the Russo's concept of him too, because they don't see him as able to mature into King Thor as Waititi was definitely building toward, and think he should go with the Guardians to hit more things.

>blew up Asgard to protect the people
>the people were all slaughtered anyway while he was beaten down and forced to watch
There is only so much that someone can take user, this was shown during Infinity War while he’s speaking to Rocket, it’s like you didn’t see IW and are forming a conclusion without having all the information

You're not getting this. He did the best he could and saved who he could and still stopped Hela. That was still something of a victory, however bittersweet. He doesn't get that from Infinity War, and how could he?

"Well at least I saved who I could, only not really because it's my fault they are all dead and also half of everyone else in the universe all because I didn't aim for the head."

That's not a victory and while it's bitter it's certainly not sweet. It's something that clearly ate away at him until all he could do was drown himself in booze with his two best mates. Did you actually expect him to think, "Hey, at least some people are alive after I fucked up, so I'll take it and be happy!" Fuck no. Nobody else was happy or dealing with the post Snap world, why would he be any different?

It's funny in a way but basically Thor living in a house with Korg and Miek was him basically being back in prison, only this time it's one of his own making.

>the people were all slaughtered anyway while he was beaten down and forced to watch
But they WEREN'T all slaughtered. That's the crux of it. They were still there, on Earth, hoping he would lead them, and he wallowed in his grief. You say I didn't see Infinity War, did you see Endgame? Asgardians are trying to rebuild in Norway, and Thor said "Valkyrie, why don't you lead them?" The Thor of Ragnarok would have looked at what he had left, and tried to be there for them.
>Nobody else was happy or dealing with the post Snap world
Hulk was mostly fine. Nothing in his Thor's Ragnarok portrayal indicated Thor was someone who would dwell on his past failures to the point of not looking toward the future. He reacted to setbacks completely differently in Endgame than he has shown to after every other setback. So can you at least see why someone who liked Thor's portrayal in Ragnarok wouldn't enjoy his portrayal in Endgame?

You also see it drive home when he beheads Thanos, he got the revenge he wanted, took the titan’s arm and then his head and he found that it didn’t do anything for him aside from drive home that it was his fault that half of all life was erased.

Under his leadership the majority of his people died and their home was utterly destroyed, and then that already small majority was halved after the snap that he could have prevented but failed to do so. That’s a level of depression that I honestly can’t even begin to imagine, the weight of literally half of the universe weighing down on his shoulders.

>*waititi (or however you spell his name) pulls his pants down and shits all over both
Ftfy

>He reacted to setbacks completely differently in Endgame than he has shown to after every other setback.
What happened in Infinity War wasn't anything like any other setback he's ever faced. That goes for all of them. They're all a mess in Endgame, some worse than others, but then not everyone failed the same way. Because in Infinity War despite what Thor lost he DID run at the problem, got a new weapon despite nearly killing himself in the process, and he actually had a shot at defeating Thanos and stopping the Snap...and he fucked up. Because of this he fucked up worse than any of them and he feels that. Yes, he fucked up worse than Quill since even if they got the Gauntlet off of Thanos' hand they still had a guy who could beat the Hulk into submission to deal with. If Quill hadn't fucked up they'd have had a better chance of stopping Thanos but still a chance. Thor, however, had his one perfect chance to end it and even before the Snap Thanos mocked him for fucking it up.

But relax. Thor is better now and him running around with the Guardians will helpfully get him back in shape for Thor 4. His personal journey of self discovery isn't over yet.

There's something I don't get about this.

>Thor escapes Asgard in the refugee ship with every living Asgardian on board
>Thanos attacks the ship looking for the space gem. He kills half of all the Asgardian refugees. Thor literally says later "He killed half my people". This is before the snap, before Thanos has all the stones.
>Hulk goes to New Asgard and Thor says "Ask the Agardians down there what my help is worth. The ones that are left anyway" and Hulk responds "We might be able to bring them back".
>At the end of the film where he makes Blackeryie King it's implied the Asgardians are alive again

But Hulk's anti-snap only brought people back who were dusted in by Thanos in the snap. Half of the Asgardians were killed manually by Thanos before the snap, the old fashioned way. So why would they come back to life, why would Hulk say "We might be able to bring them back". Did the writers just forget about this? Or think people were so retarded they wouldn't remember what happened in Infinity War?

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>and then that already small majority was halved after the snap that he could have prevented but failed to do so. That’s a level of depression that I honestly can’t even begin to imagine
Because you're thinking of depression as a thing that happens to you from outside, not as a reflection of a mindset you cultivate. You're thinking of all those external tragedies as "depression" speaks volumes, because you clearly don't understand the idea of a growth mindset, or processing grief in a healthy way and looking toward the future. You can't wrap your head around the concept that bad things can happen to you and you can still look toward the future with optimism. Like for instance: Thor does in Thor Ragnarok. It's not about what's different on the outside, it's about what's different on the inside between two different writing and directing teams writing the character based on their own perceptions.

And it was the most successful Thor Movie to date. Seems like OP is out of touch with what the youth want

Considering Hemsworth asked the Russos to take into account the comedic elements put into Thor by Waititi and Waititi himself being present in Endgame and thus clearly available for consultation, I doubt they deliberately fucked up anyone's grand vision. This two part major event was a speedbump on his path, and a ginormous one, but then you should have expected that. You're acting surprised that Thor was a mess after what happened when everything we saw in Endgame is that nobody was able to pick up the pieces of their life. Even Tony who tries to act the happiest with his family still can't get over. "Muh Spidey."

If this was gong to be "Thor failed to stop Thanos but that's fine because he created a super cool new Asgard and he's doing fine" that would have been pretty damn jarring in the movie. Definitely emotionally disconnected from everyone else.

Yeah, it was rough seeing him like that. Beheading him shocked the others, probably because they weren't expecting it at that moment, and all Thor can answer is this half-hearted bit about going for the head.

Not that user, but you are not taking into account the utter magnitude of his fuckup; thanks to his prideful boast, half of all life in the universe was wiped out. Trillions of trillions lost their lives because he wanted to get in a hero quip at the final boss. The crippling levels of guilt and anguish that comes from such a failure like that completely outweighs any strength he gained from his obstacles and struggles. It simply broke him.

If anything, Thor not being such a mess after five years of dealing with his failure would have been an insult to the gravity of the situation. There's no bouncing back from something that; it either weighs down on you to the point of serious debilitation, or you simply don't understand what you've done.

>Waititi himself being present in Endgame and thus clearly available for consultation
As Korg, he wasn't on as an exectutive Producer like Gunn was. Also, Thor Ragnarok had a different writing team, not just a different director, so differences in characterization have to do with that as well. Hemsworth wanted to bring back comedic elements to the character, and take him in new directions, I know that, but I'm not sure how you can argue in good faith that the implied course isn't wildly subverted in Endgame. They even flat out tell you that, with Frigga's "Everyone fails at who they're supposed to be" As in, he was brought up to be king, the arc seemed to be pointing to him being king, even if not in the way Odin intended, and then the story did a sharp left turn, and ended with a trajectory of sending him back to space, cause he's funny there. It's kind of transparent what they're doing, and more evidence that they're learning the wrong lessons from previous things that worked, at the expense of narrative cohesion, and to be shocking and surprising

>Or you could see it as Thor finding that everyone has their breaking point, even him.
Or I could see it as sloppy cheap writing and Thor already went through this shit back in Thor 1.

That squares with his depression at least, but everything in the arc you mentioned, the IW/EG team chose to do. Also tell me how exactly it squares with him deciding he needs to go out into space to find himself, not step up again for his people, and tell Valkyrie that she's a born leader, even though her drunken slump lasted way longer than his?

The most relatable thing happened to Thor of all characters. His whole family is dead and he has nothing. His world is gone too..

At this point if you can't understand him saying fuck it, you're beyond tone deaf

Or maybe Thor needs to beat the shit out of some bad guys, get his head right, and then come back to be the king he's supposed to be. Not all journeys are a straight line, my dude.

>Implying he's not just going to die out in space, and pass Stormbreaker on to Beta Ray Bill

Just wanted to say that it's wild to see people discussing MCU Thor with such zeal and love, especially after the first few movies. He's pretty much more popular than superman at this point isn't he, in terms of godlike superheroes?

While I didn't really enjoy his arc as much in Endgame as Ragnarok, you're right. They've taken a kind of static, stoic character from late Thor 1 through Age of Ultron, and put him through the ringer to see where they can take the character's development, and I do credit them for that. Part of it is because Hemsworth himself knew he could do more as a performer, and pushed them to push his character more. I am definitely curious to see where his journey takes him next, so they've succeeded in that regard.

>but everything in the arc you mentioned, the IW/EG team chose to do.
To the character's benefit, really. Right now, Thor has gone from a hunky borefest to easily the most dynamic character in the entire MCU. The writers have shown that they are willing to allow him to grow, regress, and grow again in any direction, and that flexibility as a character alongside his ability to take part in both terrestrial and cosmic stories makes gives him the most potential for interesting arcs that don't necessarily point him in the direction everyone expects. I actually think Hemsworth is a far better fit as the face of the MCU than Brie Larson or Tom Holland due to his character's aformentioned flexibility in the face of an audience that's demonstrated that they get bored very quickly and are quick to criticize any moment of mediocrity and/or predictability.

But back to the subject, the fact of the matter is, character development isn't always a straight line upward. Not all struggles make a character stronger; sometimes, the right level and type of pain just fucks them up, no matter how strong they were. Even at the end of Endgame, he's not truly recovered. I feel like he probably gave Valkyrie the throne in an official capacity because she had been leading the Asgardian remnants in his absence to begin with, and he still feels like he needs to get his groove back before he's ready to lead anyone. He even humorously concedes leadership to Quill when the subject comes into question, someone who arguably fucked up just as much as he did, because even though his natural instinct is to take charge, he's still emotionally recovering from five years of being stuck in a guilt-fueled mental breakdown.

Yeah, that's fair. As I thought about the Valkyrie thing, it's clear that neither of them are perfect for leadership, but she's in a better state right now to continue running things, while he still need to build himself back up. I only hope that they have a satisfying conclusion for the character in mind, not just pushing him every which way, and then discarding him when people get tired of him. Him going off to space and then dying out there or being unceremoniously written out when they figure people have had enough Thor would be a pretty anticlimactic conclusion.

>my dad passed away from old age
vs
>my personal fuckup resulted in trillions dying

Different issues, user. Different reactions. Different coping mechanisms. They're just not comparable at all.

>complaining about how the Russos treat a character
>not complaining about the right one

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He forgot that Thanos had already killed a half before snapping another half

Thus, he just bought back a quarter of all asgardians