I have just read Osamu Tezuka's Message to Adolf and I deem it to be probably one of the greatest comics I have ever read.
How Does Osamu Tezuka Compare to Supposed Western Comics Greats Alan Moore and Frank Miller
Lincoln Young
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Evan Ward
I remember wizard magazine's manga/anime section hyping him with "Jack Kirby maybe the King of Comics but Osamu Tezuka is the God of Manga."
Luke Edwards
Based Wizard
Jayden James
Andrew Wood
I think Tezuka is better than Miller and Moore. Miller is just angry hard-boiled storytelling without any of the authenticity of actual noir / hard boiled writers like Hammett, Spillane, and Thompson (etc), and the experimental stuff he did in Dark Knight was done by people like Chaykin better earlier. I think Moore is better than Miller but he’s too busy exploring narrative structures, wanky “magick” crap, and postmodern character appropriation techniques to elevate his writing above basic statements that boil down to “we all live in a text made of texts, how trippy is that?” to actually comment on the human condition and create complex characters. The closest Moore comes to creating real characters and commenting on the human condition is in FROM HELL and WATCHMEN, which are really good, but still suffer from clinical detachment and self-conscious academic appropriation tricks.
Even though Tezuka’s art can be a bit limited, he still creates characters I find more relatable because they actuate characters and not just recycled comic book tropes/types, and writes on universals from a very humane point of view.
Tl;dr: Moore is ok but limited and pseudointellectual, Miller is overrated, Tezuka is awesome.
Isaiah Brooks
“They are actually characters” not “they actuate characters.”
Fucking autocorrect word salad.
Cameron Reed
He's probably a better writer than Miller, but not as good as Moore.
Landon Young
Message to Adolf isn't even his best work you pleb. Buddha and Pheonix runs circles around it.
>Even though Tezuka’s art can be a bit limited, he still creates characters I find more relatable because they actuate characters and not just recycled comic book tropes/types, and writes on universals from a very humane point of view.
I always found this ironic when the vast majority of his works have an air of cartoonish goofiness to them. Even in the most depressing scenes he can still sucker punch you with a fourth wall break or some weird pun in the middle of it. His works are significantly less realistic, but still end up more believable.
Zachary Williams
Tezuka never did shit, he could barely draw and just imitated Barks and Disney and ADMITTED to it, stop hyping up these gooks they're all terrible.
Lucas Torres
The trouble with Phoenix is that you can't fucking buy it for a reasonable price anymore.
Easton Williams
>he could barely draw and just imitated Barks and Disney and ADMITTED to it
I'd like for you to point me to the Barks/Disney comic where shit like pic related shows up.
Matthew Morales
Dororo? More like kino!
Luke Thomas
Is the Dororo omnibus a good buy even if the series is unfinished in that format?
Anthony Gutierrez
Yes. Even though it was scrapped before it was finished and it does tend to get a bit repetitive (Hyakkimaru and Dororo journey a village that's being terroized by a demon, they kill it, Hyakkimaru gets a body part back, rinse and repeat for ~800 pages) it's still thoroughly entertaining.
Hunter Anderson
>Hyakkimaru and Dororo journey a village that's being terroized by a demon, they kill it, Hyakkimaru gets a body part back, rinse and repeat
Well what else could it possibly be about? Going to grab it this summer.
Camden Fisher
Tezuka was better than Disney because he saw the kiddification of the Medium he revolutionized and in return released some of his most fucked up works in defiance
Logan Howard
And boy were they fucked up.
Carson Gomez
I've recently begin getting back into manga (currently reading Drifting Classroom and Land) and jfc the decompression is seriously fucking me up, and this is something that makes me tend towards western stuff.
Call Kirby a bad writer as much as you want, but the man could give you an insane amount of bang for your buck. Even his "slower" Fourth Gods books are still collectable in a single omnibus, which isn't a thing for most manga that isn't conceived as a mini-series.
Adrian Harris
Still, stop comparing manga and comics, because they're all comics or sequential narrative or whatever and there are thousands of good books on every side of the fence, more than you can read even if you never lose any time doing those comparisons from now on.
Jose Kelly
This, stories should be told in 20 pages or less because they're bad and I don't give a fuck so why should I read more than that?
But seriously though, try reading Akagi.
Zachary Morgan
Tezuka was an amazing artist and writer. But western artists such as Rebecca Sugar who are "influenced" by him are a disgrace to his name. They have no idea how he designed his characters or the main reason why background ones were more cartoony than the main protagonists.
Jordan Kelly
Why does Black Jack try to look so edgy?
Aaron Jenkins
Which comic is that from?
Jose Reyes
Ode to Kirihito. It also features a woman who kidnaps and rapes freaks because she's got a fetish and the main character is forced to have sex with a dog.
Dylan Butler
Half of his face is a black kid's ass cheek, cut him some slack
Colton Baker
Any manga you recommend? Maybe something occult?
Thomas Gutierrez
Not him but Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service.
Robert James
I mean, outside of the fotm shonen stuff I read as a kid, I don't have a lot of manga vocabulary, but the above mentioned Drifting Classroom, while not occult, is VERY fucked up.
Land is somewhat twin-peakish but I kinda dropped it because I couldn't find a download for that and the online reading site I found is just shit.
Ethan Bailey
also can someone explain to me why the fuck manga people upload shit in pdf? What a terrible format
Alexander Murphy
Honestly Tezuka is more comparable to someone like Will Eisner. And I say this just because they both have awards named after them.
>I mean, outside of the fotm shonen stuff I read as a kid, I don't have a lot of manga vocabulary
You're in luck, you're in the presence of a master weeb who has mastered the form since the 90's. Ask for advice and I shall give it.
Caleb Harris
Answer me this then because this is bothering me a lot also rec surrealistic / psychedelic stuff
Aiden Cooper
>surrealistic / psychedelic
Try Homunculus. It's about a homeless guy who gets paid to let a medical student drill a hole in his skull, after which he starts seeing some shit.
He goes on to drill more holes in his skull over the course of the story in an attempt to reach deep into the troubled psyches of others and helping them with their mental problems. It's great.
>pdf question
I have no idea, I don't download comics to my computer.
Brandon Bailey
who the fuck are those anyway. its not western. its just american. fuck americans who believe those literal nobodies represent "the west".
Logan Wright
Who else draws comics though? Tintin sucks, it looks so ulgy and it's broing
David Cook
at least moebius is much more popular in both the west and the east. nobody knows these americans outside of america.
Brayden Ramirez
Pretty sure most western artists use hayao miyazaki as an ‘influence’ instead of tezuka.
I swear to god, whenever a western cartoonist gets interviewed about their inspiration they always fucking say it’s ghibli.
Nathan Murphy
Fuck you tintin is great and so is every other comic that’s been made by France
Jose Fisher
That's because Ghibli is mainstream and they've heard of it. The truth is they don't take inspiration from it, Japan has nothing to offer the superior western artists.
Who is the Jim Lee or Neal Adams of Japan? Who is the Zulli or Eddie Campbell or Bill Sienkiewicz?
The answer is nobody. Japan has no artists worth mentioning. Their animation is cheap, their comics are boring and written by committees to make the most money possible from pandering to otakus. They have no auteurs.
Owen Murphy
He's hit or miss. And his hits are never as great as the real best manga stories, like Akira.
Benjamin Ortiz
>Akira
>story
user, what? It's just some pretty pictures and action scene after action scene.
Julian Martinez
cringe
Logan Sanchez
He was pretty much the OG "edgy guy with a heart of gold".
Asher Bennett
>"I only enjoy serious graphic novels about the holocaust."
Gabriel Bailey
What the fuck does that have to do with Akira having a mediocre story? Tezuka has made things other than Message to Adolf and most of that is far less serious than Akira, and you know it.
What are you trying to accomplish here fren?
Ryder Gonzalez
Well, he's way better than both. Easily outclasses Moore as a writer, was an incredible artist and produced a ton of comics. More than any western artist and writer.
Tezuka also did everything. From furry porn, trippystuff, mascot characters, tokusatsu heroes, Disney rip-offs to an epic about Buddha.
Tezuka also didn't let his politics get in the way, something that made me get tired of Moore comics.
Tezuka was Moore, Kirby, Stan Lee, Eisner, Walt Disney and even edgy writers like Garth Ennis rolled into one man.
Jayden Ward
>Tezuka also didn't let his politics get in the way
All his stories are vegan hippy anti-war propaganda though.
Gavin Richardson
>And his hits are never as great as the real best manga stories, like Akira.
Akira just looks amazing. But as a story it's absolutely nothing next to Phoenix or Buddha.
Brayden Perry
Those faggots are for old capeshit comic nerds. Why old capeshit faggots keep overrating them. No youngsters even know of them.
Jonathan Fisher
Here's (((Zudarban))). Remember that J can also be read as Z in Japanese.
Grayson Diaz
Zudarban, the Space Merchant, is presented as a literal human rat and a complete unredeemable scumbag.
Xavier Richardson
Kevin Murphy
He can sell anything, but the price may be a bit high.
Cameron Foster
Tezuka wasn't very good.
Alexander Brown
I want to play some moopie games with a cute moopie girl...
Hudson Hall
>million year loan
DO NOT
Luis Adams
Zudarband is always looking to profit, but he can't do it in a backwater and pacific planet.
Noah Thomas
So he uses literal pig shit to affect the mind of people.
Ethan Martin
To make them more... civilized.
Owen Peterson
In a real civilization he can sell nice things like guns, drugs, booze... he's a merchant, after all.
Gabriel Gutierrez
What an amusing creature.
Robert Cruz
He wants a war, so he can profit from both sides. What a nice guy is Zudarban.
Zachary Lee
>Implying being rich and safe doesn't cause this anyway
>mfw your biggest challenges spring from being in the richest 7th of the world
>mfw dickheads are still spewing the jooze conspiracy
kill you are self
Chase Nelson
Tezuka plagiarized every idea he had from Disney. He was a hack and a cuck and so is everyone who likes his shit.
Andrew Ortiz
Osamu Tezuka's Maus
Nathaniel Torres
Then the whole planet, that although peaceful was actually was built over bizarre incest...
Dylan Carter
...is turned into a giant Brazil
Bentley Price
youtube.com
Was Tezuka /Our Guy/?
For those who want to read the full story, it's Osamu Tezuka's Phoenix vol 6: Nostalgia.
Jason Ramirez
>ezuka plagiarized every idea he had from Disney
oh you
Carter Ross
>a lion in the clouds
HMMM, GEE I WONDER WHERE HE GOT THAT IDEA FROM
Camden Cooper
>But western artists such as Rebecca Sugar who are "influenced" by him are a disgrace to his name
Where did you get that from? I've seen Rebecca's old works and her style is nothing like Tezuka's, her work is closer to Jhonen Vasquez and general 80s aesthetics if anything. Shows like MLaaTR, Big Guy and Rusty, and shorts like Diamond Jack are much more blatant about his influence than Sucrose.
Jeremiah Sanders
Either bait or retarded
David Howard
Ian Garcia
Osamu Tezuka takes an enormous dump all over the likes of Moore and Miller. If Moore and Miller are what you consider the peak of western comics, you probably only have a surface level understanding of them and likely only read Marvel and DC superhero comics.
Jace Sanders
Yea Forums prasing grorius nihhon while insulting bka gajin.
Luke Cook
Name a western comic than tops this.
Adrian Long
>so is every other comic that’s been made by France
That's a stretch.
Sebastian Barnes
Yea Forums does that every chance they get. Starting to wonder how much anyone actually wants to talk about non-manga comics.
Nathaniel Morris
I'd love to but people only care about what SJW controversy the latest capeshit had in it.
Gavin Price
The only good stuff Miyazaki worked on was Sherlock Hound and Lupin. Everything else he's made is bland and uninspiring. Not even most manga artists like the guy and have talked about the horrors of working with him. He's basically John K's less pedo Japanese counterpart. A man who's way too obsessed with perfectionism and constantly puts himself above others.
Grayson Miller
>less pedo
Good one.
Asher Myers
BASED
Daniel Hill
Interestingly enough, Miyazaki has also had problems with meeting deadlines. I believe a couple of his films were delayed in Japan because he couldn't finish them on time. I bet if the two knew each other, they'd get along considering how much of a massive ego they have. I don't know why western animators look up to him so much. He's hated in the Japanese animation/art community and people refuse to work with him because he'll always make these certain demands. He might've had the highest grossing films of all time. But that doesn't mean he's a perfect individual. He got too obsessed with fame and started treating others badly because of it. It's mainly the reason he retired from the animation industry for a while. He thought that everyone around him was a moron while he was the intelligent one.
>Japan has nothing to offer the superior western artists.
These days, America isn't really "superior" at anything. Most cartoons airing have shit writing and character designs. Comedy shows mainly revolve around fart jokes and "le orange man xddd". Apart from Superhero films, the stuff that's coming out in theaters is pretty much glorified trash. Anything that is relatively good is either on streaming sites or gets cancelled after one season. Asia is slowly becoming a highly grossing region. The average teenager and adult are starting to look into foreign shows because most of the stuff released in the US is basically the result of Late Captialism. If Miyazaki is right about one thing, it's that America is a consumerist hot spot for bumbling morons.
Thomas Long
>The answer is nobody. Japan has no artists worth mentioning. Their animation is cheap, their comics are boring and written by committees to make the most money possible from pandering to otakus. They have no auteurs.
I know you're just trolling but it's really funny imagining a theoretical person who is low and tasteless enough to have this opinion.
Joseph Morales
>Honestly Tezuka is more comparable to someone like Will Eisner
Came here to say this. Eisner is definitely the closest you'll get to a Western Tezuka.
Jason Harris
What about Swamp thing? The entire point of Moore's run is about """Alec's""" struggle with his humanity
Caleb Watson
What does turning into a plant monster and fighting werewolves have to do with the human condition?
Thomas Cooper
Honestly i miss that era of writing, almost every issue was either it's own compressed one shot story or a very important part in a larger narrative, i was reading the demon yesterday and there was as much content in an issue as there is in an entire trade nowadays.
Elijah Carter
Moore isn't American
Hudson Parker
This. Alan Moore belongs to a higher caliber of creators.
Thomas Ross
>her work is closer to Jhonen Vasquez
Nope.
Hunter Baker
That's a part of the story, the entire first arc is about swamp thing finding a place in the world after he finds out he isn't a real human
Jeremiah Rivera
>Even though Tezuka’s art can be a bit limited
He's a fucking pioneer! They are ways of showing things in his manga that became the ways everybody used in the manga industry after.
Sure, his style is simple but that doesn't mean his use of it is limited.
Jose Morales
Look at these fucking doodles man
Ethan Nelson
Can you imagine a western publisher looking at this shit and going "oh, that looks fine, let's print it"? Tezuka's only saving grace was that he lived in Japan and had literally no competition.
Nathan Sanchez
Is this a recent trend?
I read a lot of manga I downloaded in the 2000s and no one was using the pdf format.
Blake Fisher
I don't think is recent or a trend, but a few weeks ago I downloaded a bunch of stuff and from 36 (I think? might be more) titles I tried to download, at least 12 were only available in pdf (I don't have the little list I made on me right now but I remember Land, Detective Conan - which I eventually found in cbz - and a bunch of Front Mission manga are the ones I remember).
Also, while a lot of comics are ripped like shit, I'm yet to download a scanlation that isn't on some low as fuck resolution, only stuff that gets translated and then scanned seems to have decent resolution scans.
I'll admit that I'm probably being too demanding, but a lot of the stuff I'm looking for I'm only interested in art-wise and having the zipatones become a gargled mess of gradient greys is something that gets me VERY triggered. I know this is something that's probably on me since I've only now started getting into non-shonen shit but a lot of manga seems to thread between "characters so cold they're almost autistic" and "Eisner-tier melodrama and exagerated reactions", and it becomes very grating after a while.