Superman

Because the tension doesn't come from the physical, it comes from within. If you're reading a Supes story to see if he can punch anything, rather than why he punches anything at all to begin with, you're doing it wrong.

>He is able to beat anyone if the writer desires to
I don't think you get it, this statement applies to anyone in any cape book. Applying it just to Superman is idiotic. Cape storytelling is a joke.

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Marvelfags are weird.

I can't even remember when was the last time I saw Captain America losing a fight. It almost never happens outaide his book, it NEVER happens on his book. Never saw anyone complaining about "lack of tension".

Superman is strong, just like characters like Thor, Shazam, Silver Surfer, etc. Takes a beating very often in his comic book, more than the others. Yet he is the only one considered overpowered. Go figure.

DCAU Superman seems less stupidly overpowered and more reliant on his teammates.

>He is able to beat anyone if the writer desires to
Only if doing so is required to save the day.

That's understandable, considering you posted Man of Steel. He's a really bad example of Superman.
At the end of the day, the main appeal of Superman is getting to see a man with the power to rule the world by force, a level of power most people imagine would corrupt anyone, and watch him still live his life as a normal upstanding guy who just likes to help out when things go wrong.

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This guy gets it.

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That statement should clue you into the fact that any character can be wanked to absurd levels, considering original Dr. Manhaten just had control over molecules.

>far above the level they have shown before
Superman has been shown to have literally infinite potential before. prior to that he's accidentally sneezed away solar systems, and punched universes in half. No feat of strength he could show would be an outlier.
That's why his power is written so inconsistently over the years, so that writters can give him challenges and hurdles to overcome.

>characters from other companies are OP as fuck
>BASED
>Superman is OP
>HE CAN DO EVERYTHING HE TOO STRONG REEEEEER
What is up with this mindset? And I'm not only talking about Marvel. Yea Forums is full of people who worship OP characters whose main appeal is just being OP yet faggots always get mad at Superman for some reason. What the fuck man.

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God, I love Saitama. Weirdly more into him than Superman.

Yeah, Saitama has so many amazing writers and stories, such as...

One and One Punch Man.

That time when he visits the shopping mall and ends up saving the world several times over?

Actually having less writers already makes him better, keeps him consistent

Your complaint is generic enough that we can change the name and apply it to every single super hero in history.

Maybe because dc cant write superman for their own good. Him saving all the JL in the movie in just 3 seconds is an example of that

>One and One Punch Man.
The fact that this is at the top of Japanese writers/Japanese stories is pretty fucking sad.

Saitama has had a total of 0 (zero) good writers

Yesterday I read "For the Man Who Has Everything", amazing Superman story published by DC. What is the equivalent for anime characters?

>Salty super fag cant handle it when jap has more likable superman

Superman is the origin of comicbook superheroes and his highest feats are awesome and the peak of superhero shit winning, it's gratifying as fuck

You have to go b/a/ck.

And if Superman was that bad, the biggest mangaka of all time wouldn't feel the need to plagiarize his stories every time he picks a pen.

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Mental mind trip?

Probably Evangelion.

Really? I thought Son Goku was supposed to be based on Son Goku, the Monkey King?

The writers of that show admit them making Supes weaker was a mistake, that's why Superman punches the shit out of Darkseid in the series finally... of course Lex and ALE got the spotlight shortly there after but at least they let Superman have his moment

I've always liked Superman; especially his Rebirth outing with him being in the role of a father and mentor to his true son Jon, as I was just becoming a father to my son at that time. However, all of his characterization went out the window with Bendis and Bendis shit on the family dichotomy, so I don't read Superman anymore.

Captain America wins due to some bullshit that has nothing to do with superpowers. It's harder to complain about, especially for a dumb normie.

They're pissed off because all superheroes are copies of Superman

Don't take Marvel fans too seriously.

Sun Wukong isn't an alien sent by his parents to Earth in the hopes that their child would survive the imminent destruction of their planet.

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What a shitty Superman parody, Saitama is a joke

This. Not only that, the tension could be even better given his absurd power levels, if the writters would often have him monologue about him finding a suitable level of power to solve a problem presented to him, like that one shot in 90s Superman where Bryne had Supes carry a pregnant woman about to go into Labour and he had to fly at a very slow speed to not upset the lady or the baby and be very careful. At least Bryne paid lip service but it would be something.

Especially if you remove the Silver Age "Super Brain-genius" intellect thing and nerf it a bit so Supes has to actively puzzle his way out of things. He's the polar opposite of Bats and nobody gives him the challenge he needs beyond Mr random letters. Bats is a normal guy facing off freaks that are stronger than him physically(Joker has armies of crooks, Bane is fucking Bane etc) and he uses underhanded tactics and his brains(ninja training, gadgets etc) to take them down. Superman is an all powerful god and his enemies have the potential to constantly outsmart him if they aren't named Zod or Doomsday and he has to outsmart them with the use of his powers.

OP is just a dumb powerlevel fag who, considering he keeps saying "Mr." Manhattan, probably hasn't even read Watchmen and has only skimmed fan wiki articles for Manhattan's feats and abilities. Not worth paying attention to.

Yes he is. Even his original origin of being an alien mirrors the whole Sun Wukong "random monkey child fell from a sky rock that cracked open and had him in it" thing. Why do you think Saiyan pods are round in shape and open that way? It's sci-fi Sun Wukong.

The retarded Superman retelling came out 15 years after that.

>He is able to beat anyone if the writer desires to.
That's true of literally every character ever. Here, I'll do it with Brainiac vs. Jimmy Olsen who's been crippled with Lou Gehrig's disease and is stranded alone in the middle of a desert without his Superman calling watch:
>Jimmy accidentally has a blinking spasm in the one remaining functional section of muscle tissue around his eye.
>Blinks are coincidentally the Kryptonian equivalent to Morse code for secret self-destruct feature built into Brainiac early on.
>Brainiac explodes and Earth is saved.
>Also exotic krtypomatter from the explosion randomly forms a blast shield which simultaneously keeps Jimmy alive and cures his ALS.

The "retarded Superman retelling" is the canon one, though.

When Akira Toryiama, the biggest mangaka ever, decided that it was time to write the story of how Goku ended up on Earth, he decided to simply copy-paste Superman origin. You cannot make this shit up.

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He was on a sci-fi trip.

Freeza looks like alien/xenomorph.

>That's true of literally every character ever.
Yeah, I don't... Does OP understand that this is fiction? Writers don't program characters with stats and then throw them into a simulation to see who comes out on top. They write whatever the fuck they want.

Toriyama isn't a big fan of Superman it seems. Dr Slump had a parody character, Supperman, who was weak and cowardly but would always boast about being a great superhero. He even appears in the original Dragon Ball, but he jobs to a minor villain and fucks off. Toriyama has never commented on whether he actually created him to take the piss out of Superman

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>Sun Wukong isn't an alien sent by his parents to Earth in the hopes that their child would survive the imminent destruction of their planet.
>The retarded Superman retelling came out 15 years after that.
Not sure what you're talking about. It's right here in the first issue.

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God I love how retarded shit like this could pass off as "scientific explamation" back in the day

Suppaman is an endearing parody. I never got the impression that Toriyama was "shitting" on Superman. And it showed that Toryiama was aware of Superman way before he started Dragon Ball, so it's hard to heandwave the similarities of Goku's and Superman's journey to Earth as just "coincidences".

>The biggest mangaka ever
KEK! And no, like I said, that origin came 15 years later. it wasn't like that at first. He even went as far as to say that Bardock's OVA was what he wished to be canon back in the day.

It was on purpose. Frieza and his forms used to be all the things that scared him. Golden Frieza is him pimping his ride.

Talking about Goku's new Superman-like origin that came with Dragon Ball Minus.

>He even went as far as to say that Bardock's OVA was what he wished to be canon back in the day.
And yet, when Toriyama got the opportunity to write the canon version of how Goku ended up on Earth, he chose, by his own volition, to make it as Superman-like as possible.

And then proceeded to make Dragon Ball Super. Your point? Toriyama has been known to be shit in later years and fucked in the head after he saw Dragon Ball Evolution.If it's not about Dragon Quest, he's fucking lost it these last years.

Go back to facebook.

>And then proceeded to make Dragon Ball Super
Easily the most popular anime in the last years. Dragon Ball Super threads are the most active threads on Yea Forums. Any youtube video with the words "Jiren" or "Ultra Instinct" in it will have millions of views.

It seems to me that plagiarizing Superman worked a ton for Toriyama.

Not really, Jojo is still more popular.

JoJo is a late meme.

This. He is a facebook ape and casualfag. Probably likes comicbook.com

Literally any character can be wanked off to retarded extremes

To add to that Thor doesnt have any fucking weaknesses

>The most popular anime in years
>Most popular
Unless you are mexican. Moe anime have far greater ratings, merch and blu-ray sales than DBSuper's worldwide "success". Shit, Dragon Ball Heroes is doing better in Japan alone than DBSuper does worldwide. Back to facebook with you.

Amen

When your parents made you, they thought you was supposed to be a winner, not a damn weeb.

>the biggest mangaka ever

HAHAHAHAHA! This is why we can't take superman haters serious.

you can write a character that always wins, but they should have a personality that causes friction and conflict. monkey was overpowered but he was a cheeky sonovabitch. superman is too boy scout, which only works for a handful of stories.

LMMFAO

Goku is such a rip-off, Goku is not a complete rip-off but Goku is a rip-off of Superman enough that if Superman werent invented Goku would not exist

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>dragon ball super threads
You mean that cancer shit where a bunch of losers keep trying hard to offend the other, posts waifufaggotry and sometimes pedoporn? How retarded are you to proudly uses this to defend your point?

Rent free baby

>He is able to beat anyone if the writer desires to
everything that happens is because the writer desires so
if someone can't beat someone else it's because the writer desires so

>You mean that cancer shit where a bunch of losers keep trying hard to offend the other, posts waifufaggotry and sometimes pedoporn?
Why are you singling out DBS threads? All Yea Forums threads are like this.

>How retarded are you to proudly uses this to defend your point?
I don't use them. But you and I can't deny that DBS is popular as fuck on Yea Forums.

Lmaoooo noone was talking about marvel. Rent free

Its just sad. Face it, Comic Books are all Superman has and that’s slowly dying already

The last Superman movie made more money than all 21 Dragon Ball movies added up.

>not getting truth, justice, and the American Way
I pity you, OP.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises
According to this, Superman is below Frozen

DBS threads are always the same. It's just people shitposting. Not all of the threads are like this. Only thing you're proving is that dbs is popular among retards. Also, normally shitposting groups are always active.

>Yeah, i suppose he brings "hope" to people, but, is his power even his or does it have any value?
The fact you can't understand this proves why superman and what he represents is important.

Frozen was a huge sucess. What's your point?

>Superman Box Office: $3.212 billion
>Dragon Ball Box Office: $809 million
Yikes! And Superman only has 6 movies total, against the 21 Dragon Ball movies.

Reminder that there was people who believed DBS Broly would surpass any Marvel movie.

When a character is overpowered, such as in Superman and in One Punch Man, the story tends to not be about something other than "does the character have the physical capacity to defeat their enemies".

Broly was good but it's rediculous people would think that.

>so tl;dr "modern times" people are edgy dipshits so they wont be able to understand superman?
pretty much this. Maybe not as edgy as 90s but it still applies. People just see superman as a big strong guy who punches things like how people saw the hulk before the MCU or Broly in the original dbz movies.

Most kids exposure to him would probably be the DCEU, they just saw him beating up the Justcie League and coming in at the end.

>its only ok when a character I like does blank
In my experience people who ahitnon Superman have no friggin clue what they're talking about, they think watching one or two movie makes them an expert

>watches a movie and think he knows a single fucking thing

When did weebs become so misinformed? Just go back to your own board

But OPM was made to ve a silly parody. Still powerlevelfags are such retards they keep discussing what he can do and telling he can beat X to inflate their shit egos.

>he can beat anyone the writer wants too
This might be bait but, EVERYONE CAN BE ANYONE IF THE WRITER CHOSES IT TO BE LIKE THAT YOU DUMB FUCK

It's bait. OP read the Encyclopedia Dramatica entry on Yea Forums.

The only silver lining is that Superman will survive past Bendis and we'll eventually get comfy/wholesome superman again

>people who dont know the first thing about superman will forever complain and act like they know what they're talking about, well never acknowledging other characters who have the same flaws
It's all so goddamn tiresome

I love shit like this, just nonsensical "scientific" explanations

As a Jojo fan I fucking wish it was half as big as DBZ

>Physical marvel
Even Timely comics copied the name Marvel from the first page of Action Comics #1

DBZ fans are retards? Sounds about right

>will superman be able to beat this guy
this isn't the question that makes a Superman comic interesting

100% this

It would never happen but I imagine a Superman/OPM crossover would be a lot of fun, the two would fight a couple times and constantly dodge so neither actually lands a hit, someone makes a comment about how the fight would end in one punch but we never actually get a conclusion, ultimately they team up to fight a hundred Doomsday's or something

It's a word dude

Same

Yet when it comes to power level arguments superfags are always first on the scene to stroke him off.

>Same faggots who hate superman love OPM
Normalfag NPCs really are retards.

To be fair, Clark in MoS does save lots of people even if his character is a bit more flawed

Your post is ironic considering that in these newer films Superman loses to Batman and dies to Doomsday in the same film, there's plenty of tense moments in BvS and in MoS Superman would have gotten his ass kicked by Zod if Superman hadn't snapped his neck due to Zods military experience+gaining superstrength rapidy due to yellow sunlight exposure, you also forget that Superman almost lost b/c of the world engine too

No shit, but it's not a coincidence either

You are already wrong for taking part in power level arguments.

Speaking for myself, I always say that "Superman wins" every time that a powerlevel-fag comes to Yea Forums. Most of the time, I don't even think he wins, but I say it anyway, just because I know it annoys people like you.

Saitama is infinitely powerful because otherwise the joke falls flat. The first episode hammered it pretty hard. Even when Dragon Garou Lee made crossovers between DBZ and OPM, it was always tapping at DB's comedic aspect to play off against OPM's. If Saitama has a serious beyond his vidya bouts with King or his menial games with Bang, the joke falls flat on its face and it stops being a comedy.

You're hoping this is the case because some tweet about everything going back to Jon being a happy kid again seems like fantasy at this point with how shit Benis wants make titles.

Because most anons want to pick a fight with Superman

In this case is probably is, I doubt they took it from the first page of superman's origin comic

Its not something I do, just something I see. The flash is just as bad with muh attosecond.
Leave it to capeshit

>He is able to beat anyone if the writer desires to
So what? superheroes are about saving the day, not beating people up. fucking casual.

Superman's S shield naturally attracts opponents.

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Considering Superman's popularity and that they changed their name from Timely to Marvel eventually leads me to believe they were insipred by Action Comics #1

Theirs nothing to hope about. Superman as a character has outlived dozens of writers and he'll outlive this one as well

This is such a dumb topic. So many major heroes have hud such wild fluctuations in power it's not even worth talking about anymore. Either you enjoy that particular story or not. Look at some of the insane feats from everyone from Flash, Hulk, Thor, Goku, Iron Man, Green Lantern.... stop fucking crying.

>But its ok when anime does it
Just get lost

Could have been the fact that Captain Marvel (now Shazam) was outselling superman but a huge amount at the time

That too, Captain Marvel/Shazam is a key part of Superman lore too now considering how it was inspired by Superman also

You can have Daredevil beat Galactus if you really want, it's not real.

That wouldn't make any sense without the feats to back it up

Superman is good and good wins in the end

It happens regardless

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Dude, almost every member of the Justice League has “unlimited potential” Shazam, Hal Jordan, Flash, J’onn.

Superman’s unlimited potential is also something that happens over time, Like SPOM or Strange Visitor. So he can’t just pull “muh infinite” out of his ass.

>Cap's near-indestructable shield rips through Hulk

I see nothing off about this

I just noticed Cap's shield doesn't even visibly cut Hulk's skin, what's the problem?

Where did I imply that?

Hell, wasn’t one of Captain Marvels writers responsible for like, 90% of Superman’s Silver Age lore?

Yup

He got cool villains.

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Yes i know things better than you capefag

>capefag

This thing of x ripoffx y is becoming more and more a meme

You cannot unsee

Toryiama rips off Superman, though. All the shonen industry has to thank Superman for its existence.

Honestly sounds pretty good. Seems like it’d be fun

>He is able to beat anyone if the writer desires to.
Literally applies to every fictional character

Batfags are always there first.
Because they had prep time.

superman is more of as rescuer.

>Jojo is still more popular.
the day Jojo drags literal millions of people to watch the new episodes on squares all over the world I will accept it

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It's not really necessary to *get* a character in order to enjoy something which features any one character.

Do you really think the millions of people who are watching Game of Thrones have any familiarity with that kind of life, much less with actual magic, killing as a political solution, or dragons?

What he represents and stands for remains very popular, son.

Mmm, not really. Not even his movies can get him right

The fact that Zack Snyder changed Superman to fit his own opinion of what Superman should be and that didn't resonate with Superman fans means that Superman cannot be good anymore?

>He is able to beat anyone if the writer desires to.

Boy have I got news for you...

When people think the first Batman/Superman live action team up sucks and the first Live Action Cinematic Justcie League has the Third Thor movie do better than it. You’re kinda already dead

Yeah, but that is because the movies are shit, not because the characters are shit. The movie characters barely resemble the characters and were heavily criticized for it.

Its how you’re viewed. Back in 2005, nobody cared about Thor or Iron Man, it was Superman and Batman who we’re top dog. Flash forward to now, Batman is all DC has, People care more about the fucking Guardians of the Galaxy and Winter Soldier than Superman.

Not everyone has such a shit opinion

Marvelfags are plenty but even fucking Aquaman made a billion dollars

Batman sells plenty of comics

>Its how you’re viewed.
It's how "I" am viewed?

>People care more about the fucking Guardians of the Galaxy and Winter Soldier than Superman.
Isn't "Winter Soldier" one of the biggest flops right now? Like, barely selling more than Moon Girl? I'm pretty sure that no Superman comic has ever selling that bad.

Same for Guardians of the Galaxy.

Also, I think your brand loyalty to Marvel fried your brains. You are referring to Marvel as "me" and to DC as "you". I am not "DC" and you are not "Marvel".

>He is able to beat anyone if the writer desires to.
This is true of literally every character ever

Except where comic sales are concerned, superman continues to outsell Thor, Ironman and the Guardians every single month

He can get stunned if taken by surprises or hit with a powerful attack but you can’t really hurt him unless you use one of his weaknesses.

This has been true since the Bronze Age. In the same DC Presents arc where he breaks infinity so that the Specter has to step in he gets stunned by Mongul blasting him with laser eyes.

It’s like punching a guy when he’s ready vs rabbit punching him.

Yeah. Capeshit is broken. That's the nature of the gig. That's why people will argue when people come in with their anime hero of the weak and claim they can solo the DC/Marvel universe.
It's not a "Nuh-uh! My favorite is stronger!" it's just a "No, you don't understand what nonsense you're dealing with".

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Yes, Otto Binder.

Superman fags are probably furios about the fact that batman fags are considered the most autistic fandom and want to take the first spot

What does any of that have to do with Dragon Ball ripping off Superman?

You are out of your mind if you think the Batman fandom is the most autistic one.

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>People taking this low effort bait

None of the reasons I like Goku, Superman or Saitama have anything to do with powerlevels

The fact that this turned into slight console war faggotry is shameful

I really like OPM, but Saitama is at heart a gag character so it's not quite the same.

this. And also Dc doesn't let he lose. This is why I love Doomsday.

>The fact that this turned into slight console war faggotry is shameful
When the subject of the thread is this, it's inevitable.

I just love seeing Saitama’s place in the world, and how the people around him can grow by just being around him. Also helps that he just acts like a regular person.

>most iconic superhero
>good-looking chad
>fucks 10/10 milf
>overpowered so his stories are comfy

I mean, what's not to like?

All-Star and For All Seasons are the comfiest comfy there is.

Based.

Superbump

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>He is able to beat anyone if the writer desires to.
The same could be said of all fictional characters.

>Why do people like him in modern times?
He has one of the best rogues galleries in comic book history and a personality that you'd have to be a jerk to hate. When he's tested, physically or mentally, he's extremely easy to root for. Additionally, just what he represents is great. Superman's a smart guy in addition to being extremely powerful, and in a universe filled with villainous intelligences it's great to see a superhero who genuinely loves being a hero even though he's "figured it all out."
>He is able to beat anyone if the writer desires to
This is true for any character.
>Now, he is being wanked to the point we are supposed to think he has a chance against Mr. Manhattan.
Batman has beaten Darkseid. Captain America can apparently engage Thanos physically for more than a fraction of a second. Hal Jordan one shot killed Mandrakk. Are all of these instances of heroes fighting extremely powerful villains and winning "wank" to you?
Superman's physical victory (not his ideological one) over Manhattan will likely come with thousands of strings attached.
>He can punch universal beings one day, and the next day, he is knocked out by a supernova.
He holds back to varying degrees depending on the situation. You might think that's cheap if you don't read Superman but it's an essential character trait. He will legitimately rather die than let a single innocent be harmed. That's where the physical tension comes from. Sure, a character with the powers of Superman could just punch his enemy directly into orbit and cause the shockwave from the punch to destroy all of Metropolis collaterally. But Superman himself would never do that- he'd rather take the hits in a protracted fight so long as innocents are saved- which grounds him with legitimate weaknesses.
Additionally every character also suffers from inconsistent power levels when written by multiple different people. I don't know why it's so difficult for you to accept that for Superman.

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>when he's not overpowered and is fighting someone on his level you KNOW things are about to get real
Every time Superman means business in the middle of an event it's beyond hype.

How many fist fights do you have in your life? Do you still feel tense?
It's almost as though personal or emotional conflicts are more compelling that who wins in a fight.

Makes sense Doom's fans would be as autistic as he is

What else does Goku have going for him other than his power level? I used to love DBZ but I never much cared for Goku

He's also wholesome as fuck

Well said

I can only imagine that psycho fans like that were what set off Tommy's autistic hateboner for all things Doom/Namor/Marvel.

I always liked that bit in Batman 36 rebirth where batman goes through the trouble of infiltrating the building through the roof vents, and grappling down the elevator shaft, while superman just walks in through the front and takes the elevator because otherwise he'd have to break a window to get in.

That's the kind of Superman detail i like

Saitama is okay but everyone around him sucks, Superman has a way better side-cast

That wa a good bit, I also really like the bit with them having swapped cities, and each one is giving their impressions, cant for the life of me remember where that's from tho

he is hot as fuck and for lewds only

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Cape comics are more than just fighting, user.

>He is able to beat anyone if the writer desires to.

You can say this about literally any comic character.

I fucking wish

He also had only one movie that was successfull. In 1978. Face it nobody cares about supes anymore

I mean, Man of Steel for all its faults was a box office hit.

And Superman 2 is one of the most acclaimed and iconic superhero movies ever. The first saga of DBZ was a direct reference to it. And Zod is one of the most beloved super villains ever because of it.

we have this thread every day

>this is a 10/10 milf

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What? Superman and superman 2 were huge.

And even being controversial, Man of Steel made more money than the vast majority of MCU movies up to that point, more money than Thor 2 from the same year, and double the money of the most successful anime movie of all time.

>zod one of the most beloved supervillain
My sides

>He is able to beat anyone if the writers desire to
So is literally every other character ever written. Even fucking Squirrel Girl can beat Galactus. And Superman gets his ass kicked all the time, he's even died a bunch of times. Tension in Superman comics come from HOW he's gonna beat the bad guy and how he struggles to uphold his ideals when threats like Darkseid and Lex Luthor exist.

Well said. To expand on the Doc Manhattan bit, we don't even know how this is going to play out or if there will even be a fight. Doc sees him flying fowards him, seemingly ready to strike, but my pet theory is that Adrian is behind him with a weapon that will actually manage to kill him and Superman is actually trying to save him. His 'vision' was blocked to manipulate him and he came to the wrong conclusion before due to manipulation, and I suspect he is falling for the same shit twice.

Since he oneshotted Kara and other Kryptonian tier heroes I don't see it coming down to a slugging match. Superman will 'win' by being the only being alive to inspire/shake Manhattan as he has become.

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Because, ideally, the point of a Superman story isn't supposed to be measuring up to the material threats that confront him. He's absurdly powerful -- and he's always going to be able to overpower whatever faces him. The key to telling an interesting story will be having him fight what cannot be overcome by strength alone.

He's a normal person granted enormous power. Navigating his moral responsibilities as someone given great power is what makes his character pop. When he has to fight something that he can't punch -- be it a a mental illness or an ideological opposition -- the drama is in watching enormous power be rendered useless by an inability or an unwillingness to bring it to the forefront.

What it really is to be a moral person when you can do anything? It's Plato's Ring of Gyges with a new coat of paint for a different audience.

If the drama of the story is, "will Superman be able to punch it really hard" then it will be as shitty and brainless as most comics. It's only when Superman becomes symbolic of moral virtue or power qua power that he becomes genuinely interesting.

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>Mr. Manhattan

>He holds back to varying degrees depending on the situation. You might think that's cheap if you don't read Superman but it's an essential character trait. He will legitimately rather die than let a single innocent be harmed. That's where the physical tension comes from. Sure, a character with the powers of Superman could just punch his enemy directly into orbit and cause the shockwave from the punch to destroy all of Metropolis collaterally. But Superman himself would never do that- he'd rather take the hits in a protracted fight so long as innocents are saved- which grounds him with legitimate weaknesses.

Why do people let Spider Man get away with this when he does the same thing? A serious Peter is as terrifying as a Serious Clark.

>A serious Peter is as terrifying as a Serious Clark.
On the grand scale no, but on the scales they each usually operate, yes.