Why does Warners have so much trouble adapting its DC properties to film?

Why does Warners have so much trouble adapting its DC properties to film?

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Because they are only aware of Batman

Because they're made by people who don't care about the characters or like the characters. They're made by people who don't get the characters. They need to get someone who isn't necessarily a fan of DC but close to being a fan.

because david s goyer is a fucking HACK

(1/2) Serious Mode incoming.

Honestly this is half of the big reason. The other half is Watchmen in 1986, whose grim-and-gritty deconstruction of superheroes alongside The Dark Knight Returns the same year making Batman SEEMINGLY (remember this) grim-and-gritty too meant that the concept of making superheroes "mature" or "kewl" sold like hotcakes in the 90s and left an inescapable mark on superheroes... especially on DC, who really saw success hyping up Batman's popularity via more "gritty" stuff: the Batman movie (1989), and Batman: the Animated Series and Batman Returns (both 1992).

The problem is, DC not only took too hard to the grim-and-gritty mindset, they clutched too hard onto Batman, who could most easily adapt to that versus the rest of DC's A-list and consequently began selling most of DC's comics output. This meant that once the age of superhero movies began rising in the 2000s and really ramped up with the MCU's hit with Avengers 1 in 2012, WB and DC faced an unexpected problem:

>how the fuck do we write anything but Batman? ....how do we give them conflicts? Who ARE these guys at heart and core? I don't know, I've only been paying attention to Batman this whole time!

Don't believe me? Look at how whatever Superman media outside comics tended to be chained to the very good, but now ancient Superman movie of 1978, and stuff like Superman Returns being very meh chasing those movies' old-fashioned tone, and how the DCAU ultimately revolves around Batman, not Superman or anyone else (and is beginning to show its age, even if it still deserves praise). And at least Superman GETS stuff outside comics. Green Lantern getting a cartoon during Geoff Johns' epic run on Lantern comics still surprises the hell out of me to this very day. They STILL botched his movie wholesale. But hey, Watchmen's movie did well with its grim-and-gritty! Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy brought in the big bucks! Let's get that Snyder guy to helm our new rival to the MCU!

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(2/2) Serious Mode continued.

So you get Zack "turned out to be a hack" Snyder to helm the DCEU and turns Batman vs Superman into a complete fucking edgelord joke. We all know how it gets mocked for trying to shove in JESUS parallels and ARTHURIAN drama into the same movie where the Riddler's a whiny millennial and sensually feeds a Congressman candy and of course, MARTHA. But even Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman revealed that most WB execs much less Snyder knew how to make the most of anything that's not edgelord gritty Batman. Superman's been semi-ruined for a generation with his MOS portrayal and no sequel announced in sight, and even his actor may not return. Wonder Woman's been out for a couple years and was successful, Aquaman's been out since last year. Any big comic runs by famed creators being announced? An animated series? Nope. Most comics sold by DC still see the big people being put on Batman titles, and going back to movies, the second-most successful character in the DCEU seems to be Harley Quinn, a decided part of Batman's world. Of course, I guess there's Titans, which is already edgelording it up to mockery with Slut/Hookerfire and of course FUCK BATMAN.

WB and DC had sucked grim-and-gritty Batcock for so long they ultimately lost sight of what makes the MCU so popular: for all that Yea Forums shits on the movies, they really make superheroes fun, optimistic, and that makes stakes that much higher when an Infinity War/Endgame combo pops up. And WB/DC really barely understand other heroes in their stable and left them neglected for so long in pop culture that once you take Batman out of the equation, there's a lot less people who give a fuck on them or know who their supporting heroes or civilian cast are, their rouges' galleries, core themes, etc. And even Batman has suffered: when's the last media project that showed Batman and Robin together and being stable? Or even showed Batman as an admirable force kids could be safe around?

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(3/2) Serious Mode still continued, fuck it.

Instead, WB/DC for decades, since 1986 with Watchmen and TDKR, have been chasing the whole deconstructionist-'realism'-grim-and-gritty for so long, and with Batman as its avatar... it's forgotten how to have some imagination, some optimism, show superheroes being HEROES. We get sprouts of hope and fun here-and-there, of course, both in comics and media. But they're the exception, not the norm. Even the comics are suffering. Look at how Rebirth collapsing once Johns was forced to delay Doomsday Clock endlessly and how ridiculed Heroes in Crisis and the fake-out of the Batman-Catwoman wedding by Tom King was received, or the unpopularity of Bendis aging up Jon Kent and destroying the breath of fresh air Superman raising a family was. They are now seeing those chickens come home to roost: they're still stuck in endless BATMAN mode, EDGELORD mode, and can't follow up on any successes outside of BATMAN they do get with stuff like Wonder Woman and Aquaman being surprise hits and absolutely nothing being made to capitalize on them. Instead? More Harley Quinn and bleak Gotham stuff. It's just going to be the company equivalent of an insecure middle-aged overweight man insisting his capeshit media be "kewl" and "mature" for a long time yet.

Even Frank Miller remembered Batman ultimately refused to kill Joker and made children feel safe in TDKR.

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God, you’re right. Bendis and King, we got that Birds of Prey and Harley Quinn. DC’s just become pure Batman at this point, you got Shazam and Aquaman, but damn you hit the mark. We get small glimpses of stuff like Legends and Doom Patrol, but it always circles back

Unironically made me think

Capes.

For the record, if you watch through the Nolan trilogy without bias you'll realize that it's ultimately an optimistic and humanistic story. Doesn't make what you said about WB/DC's mindset, though.

and the people running the place don't even understand Batman or film
The CEO that just got booted for trading roles for sex came from their THEMEPARK division, he ran Six Flags
by doing things other than Batman
they're chained to Superman and Batman because the people running the conglomerate don't know anything else, not because they're grim and gritty
they're lazy and uninterested
Aside from the issues with Hack Snyder they simply tried to cram too much into one film, cram a whole multiverse beginning into a single film

Batman is optimistic its only neckbeards who want him to be feeling awful and killing

idk i mean supposedly johns likes the characters and he works on a lot of the movies

i wish i didn't agree with this so much

Shazam was awful
Aquaman is a Thor rehash
So is this the future just copying Marvel for middle of the road mediocrity?

Seems like it. Hell, Captain Marvel seems poised to take the title of "most famous female hero" from Wonder Woman at this rate. What would happen to DC if Marvel successfully makes shoves in a equivalent to "gritty non-powered vigilante" that Batman is?

The Marvel quipathon style really doesn't suit Batman
Which is why I am worried about what Warners next Batman movie is going to be like given their shift
Are they gonna have fucking Batquips?

Most Marvel movies are made by people who don't get the characters. Half the MCU aren't even close to how they are in the comics.
It's about talent, not whether they know shit about comics. Most of the creative part is handled by the studio and producers these days, anyway.

Moon Knight or Nighthawk?

No at this point it's about branding. The MCU hit a few home runs early on and now the momentum is way too powerful to stop. Age of Ultron made more than MoS and BvS combined and it was as bad as BvS.

Probably the best bet. I'm convinced if Marvel makes Moon Knight a thing in movies and pop culture DC is truly finished.

Wikipediafag harder jesus christ. Read a fucking comic.

>disliking Batquips
I'd call you a casual but even casuals know Batman can do lighthearted just fine.

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Moon Knight and Sentry.
It’ll happen

>childrens cartoon batman makes jokes
not quite the same thing
yes he can make dry observations, but it is not the same thing as Shazam, Aquaman, or the Marvel films
its not even on the same planet

But his origins
user
the golden age and the beginning of the character

Superman's a bit weird to me in that regard - he's the OG model hero, yes. But Marvel successfully made a superhero universe without a Supes equivalent via the comics in the first place. Not to mention he's pretty much suffered in popularity with Batman taking his spotlight as prime DC hero and so less a priority for aping IMO. You have moral paragons in Cap and Spidey, strength in Thor, Hulk, Captain Marvel, flight in Thor, Iron Man, Captain Marvel, etc.

normal quips=/=marvel quips
marvel quips are terrible.

Not enough jokes

You really don't think you can tweak the style? You clearly don't read much Batman.

>making a batman a laugh riot like marvel movies is merely tweaking the character bro relax its in plenty of comics dude
no

So it's my fault you haven't read one of the best superhero series of all time?

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Whedon already did it in JL

of course I've read early 90s Justice League, and that wasn't anything like marvel movies

I actually liked the Watchmen adaption. Like it's not perfect, and there are some weird changes and things cut for time, but as far as comic book flicks go it still made me feel a lot more than Marvel has in ages and actually told the original standalone story from start to finish.

Then again, the old Sam Raimi Spiderman movies are still probably my favorite superhero films, so I'm willing to accept that I'm just sad and blinded by nostalgia.

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the Raimi films work with their own internally consistent style and tone

They really don't. Disney has just brainwashed you into eating its shit.

>Oh shit we need to catch up to Marvel, quick cram Batman into Supermans sequel

>Oh god that didn't work why isn't the grimdark working
>And the Justice League movie introducing 4 characters never before seen is shaping up to be more of the same WHAT DO WE DO?!

>what if we... get Joss Whedon
>oooh, the quipman
>And.... we reshot 50% of the movie adding a lot of light hearted moments and jokes? In 3 months. Requiring an actors beard to be removed digitally.
>This is a plan I like this plan I feel good about this plan

And then there is Aquaman and Shazam
Does this look like the actions of people who know what they are doing, or desperately flailing about?

Lol everyone has problems compared to disney/marvel

>the Riddler's a whiny millennial and sensually feeds a Congressman candy

I want to correct you and say it was Luthor, not the Riddler, but honestly I might be wrong about that and don't feel like looking it up.

The MCU is it's own studio, so they can release more movies in a short period of time, WB has other movies to release that aren't DC and when MoS was released it took them 3 years to release a follow up and they have only released 7 movies in 6 years, in the same timespan MCU released many more.

Johns is the wrong kind of fanboy, especially since he's more concerned with having his shitty stories adapted.

the issue isn't rate of production
and marvel isn't a studio

Marvel Studios is a studio.

It was indeed Luthor but he was so much like the Riddler, that he either misremembered or called him Riddler on purpose. Which says a lot on the movie's characterizations.

My problem is that I'm a huge Watchmen fan and seeing the adaption completely misrepresent the subtext of the major scenes really irked me the wrong way. It's like Snyder skinned Watchmen and had a regular superhero movie wear it in some sort of sick mockery.

Raimi on the other hand actually kept true to the spirit of the source material and had enough talent to put his own little spin on it. Snyder does not have that sort of talent.

>What would happen to DC if Marvel successfully makes shoves in a equivalent to "gritty non-powered vigilante" that Batman is?
That's basically what Ronin was in Endgame

>Doom Patrol

It still amazes me that this show works as well as it does. Staying faithful to the spirit of the source material, while giving it it's own unique tone and identity, and also having some dark and serious subject matter, while still being unapologeticly weird.

its a production company
and a subsidiary of Disney just like DC is a subsidiary of WB

Snyder is one of those edgelords who only took from Watchmen the violence and grimness and darkness, and probably looked at Rorschach and said "wow he's just like me", which was the last thing Moore was trying to do a story about and has said he regrets so many people took only that away from Watchmen

Not only isn't JLI from the early 90s (more like mid to late 80s), it definitely feels like an inspiration for the MCU movies.

I get that you want to gloat, but the spamming seems a bit overzealous.
t. Marvelfag

this makes no sense
who do you think is gloating?

>WB/DC for decades, since 1986 with Watchmen and TDKR, have been chasing the whole deconstructionist-'realism'-grim-and-gritty for so long
So Alan Moore did put a hex on them

>its about talent
it most certinaly is not, the marvel formula isn't a good place for people with actual talent, its why edgar write got the boot

you don't even know the names of the directors for most of these movies

what its about is planning, planning by people who care about the characters, almost to a fault

no one at Warner Bros cares that much about the characters to even have a proper plan
its why so many of these movies had reshoots, no one had a vision for these movies, much less an entire franchise